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View Full Version : quick rogue stat question - where to dump?



Jybwee
03-20-2011, 11:11 AM
Hiya am starting to build up a rogue, want high dex, int, and of course a good con. I chose Halfling and rev'd up me character builder and put -

str - 11
dex - 17
con - 14
int - 17
wis - 8
cha - 8

woo hoo! i'm off on my building fun.. then i realize my mistake... no will saves :(, now i haven't been playing for a long time but i'm guessing this is a bad thing :P. question for ya is - what should i dump? My thinking is - could lower my Int to maybe 15 and Str to 10 and get cha up to 14 then grab Force of Personality, I would like to keep my Int as high as possible tho to make sure i can disable/search out all traps in the game. Also Cha will help my UMD, Diplomacy, and Haggle (Wis would just help my spot).

Anywho looking for some thoughts/pointers from more experienced ppls so i can move ahead with the building.

jwdaniels
03-20-2011, 11:13 AM
I wouldn't worry so much about will saves - most of the things will saves oppose are easily preventable by other means (protection from evil, freedom of movement, etc.) so dumping wisdom is not a bad way to go.

Jybwee
03-20-2011, 11:20 AM
I wouldn't worry so much about will saves - most of the things will saves oppose are easily preventable by other means (protection from evil, freedom of movement, etc.) so dumping wisdom is not a bad way to go.

ok, (sry i'm noobish) does this mean i can keep it the way i had with wis and cha being 8 or should i still change it?

jwdaniels
03-20-2011, 11:24 AM
ok, (sry i'm noobish) does this mean i can keep it the way i had with wis and cha being 8 or should i still change it?

If I were changing anything, I would avoid so many odd-numbered stats. You get bonuses on even numbers ones, so a 17 and a 16 aren't really any different (barring level-ups and tomes, but if you're new I wouldn't worry so much about that yet).

Charisma is pretty useful if you're going to raise haggle and use magic device (and you will definitely want a very high use magic device) so I'd raise that before wisdom. Also, a little bit more strength wouldn't hurt either.

Anneliese
03-20-2011, 11:26 AM
Keep wis and cha at 8, its fine.

Do not fall into the trap of raising int to high levels - keep it at 14 at most. With the usual gear, you can still search and disable every trap.

For your new char, this could turn out to be a nice starting set:

Str: 14
Dex: 18
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 8
Cha: 8

Also, a dex rogue is usually not a good idea for the long term - are there specific reasons why you want one?

Malithar45
03-20-2011, 11:29 AM
One big question to better help you: What are you wanting to do with your Rogue? That much Dex and Int is looking more like a Mechanic/Repeater build. Is that what you're aiming for? TWF Assassin? Acrobat? No idea and you're just having some fun? :P

Unless you're aiming for the Mechanic/Repeater as mentioned, I'd consider dropping Int to 12 or 14, Dex to 16, and increasing Str to 16 or so, unless aiming for a Dex based Assassin.

Just let us know what you're after for more solid numbers and less generalized ones. :P

Vissarion
03-20-2011, 11:31 AM
My two cents: lower int, increase strength. Don't worry about Wis for the same reasons that jwdaniels mentions.

You mention that you want to have a high int to guarantee your search and disable, but you can accomplish the same thing with a lower int. Even 8 int rogues can get all non-epic traps in the game, and some epic ones with a little work and gear. 17 Int is definitely overkill.

Maybe something like:

Str: 14 [10]
Dex: 17 [8]
Con: 16 [10]
Int: 12 [4]
Wis: 8
Cha: 8

Could be a good layout for a Dex-based halfling if you don't want to have to use any tomes (if you're a new player). If you can easily acquire +1 tomes (and they are pretty cheap), you could drop Dex to 16 and bump up Int or Cha.

stille_nacht
03-20-2011, 11:31 AM
actually odd stats might be a (sort of) good thing. i mean, +1 tomes come for 10-15k a lot of the time, easily affordable :]

Jybwee
03-20-2011, 11:32 AM
Also, a dex rogue is usually not a good idea for the long term - are there specific reasons why you want one?

not Really, just that i got a monk to 20 who was mostly str and wanted something different. Plus would love a crazy high reflex :) (oh and playing with the idea of repeaters)

and ty all the the advice.

Jybwee
03-20-2011, 11:38 AM
One big question to better help you: What are you wanting to do with your Rogue? That much Dex and Int is looking more like a Mechanic/Repeater build. Is that what you're aiming for? TWF Assassin? Acrobat? No idea and you're just having some fun? :P

Unless you're aiming for the Mechanic/Repeater as mentioned, I'd consider dropping Int to 12 or 14, Dex to 16, and increasing Str to 16 or so, unless aiming for a Dex based Assassin.

Just let us know what you're after for more solid numbers and less generalized ones. :P

ty - i was actually thinking in the Mechanic/Repeater mindframe... (this was suppose to be a simple question thread :P) anywho, i'm raising Dex for my lvl ups. You think 16 str is needed with that?!

junior_w
03-20-2011, 11:38 AM
I would follow this way

STR - 13
DEX - 17
CON - 14
INT - 14
WIS - 8
CHA - 8

Even if you want be a finesse build you still need STR to damage your enemies.

About high INT, I only have a Ftr6/Rog3 and started with 12 INT and I'm doing fine with the traps, but I'm not sure how he will be in high levels dealing with higher traps.

Starting with 14 INT and maxing Disable Device you will have 25 DD skill withou tiems,
25 Base
3 +6 Int item
15 +15 DD item
2 rogue skill boost
7 +5 tools (not sure if it's +7)
4 greater heroism
________________________
56 Total

I think it's enough, but it's only my opinion and I'm not an expert about rogues.

Vissarion
03-20-2011, 11:43 AM
I would follow this way

STR - 13
DEX - 17
CON - 14
INT - 14
WIS - 8
CHA - 8

Even if you want be a finesse build you still need STR to damage your enemies.

About high INT, I only have a Ftr6/Rog3 and started with 12 INT and I'm doing fine with the traps, but I'm not sure how he will be in high levels dealing with higher traps.

Starting with 14 INT and maxing Disable Device you will have 25 DD skill withou tiems,
25 Base
5 +6 Int item
15 +15 DD item
2 rogue skill boost
7 +5 tools (not sure if it's +7)
4 greater heroism
________________________
58 Total

I think it's enough, but it's only my opinion and I'm not an expert about rogues.

Considering that ~52 is the current threshold for epic traps, this breakdown demonstrates nicely how too much INT meets diminishing returns at a certain point. Although +6 stat item only gives you +3 Search/DD (you may be including the other 2 from tome+capstone, maybe?). Include a luck item like Voice or Head and you're even better off. A GS Int-skills item could also be nice if you plan to dump Int.

Malithar45
03-20-2011, 11:57 AM
ty - i was actually thinking in the Mechanic/Repeater mindframe... (this was suppose to be a simple question thread :P) anywho, i'm raising Dex for my lvl ups. You think 16 str is needed with that?!

Eh, I'd be lying if I said I knew much as far as building a Repeater Rogue. :P But my understanding of it is that Int is more or less your Str since its added to your damage the same as it, while Dex is your hit. Got a good head on you considering you set out wanting good Con anyways, so you're plenty farther along than most. :P I'd recommend taking a look at the Repeater Rogue (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=266855) thread. Lots of info, build advice, gear to aim for, etc in there. I'm sure a few of the other posters can give some more details concerning a good Repeater build but I dunno how to go about it myself.

What Vissarion said concerning trap DC's is right though. DDO's setup so that a Mechanic build specifically for traps isn't required really anywhere in the game. I'm personally a base Int 8 Rogue and I've been able to disable everything up to epics, though I haven't tried my hand at epic VoN 5. I'd personally recommend a TWF Assassin as someone's first Rogue as you're able to experience all sides of it really if built right. Although it can be expensive keeping up with the curve (+skill items at lvl, +stat items, tools, tomes, weapons, etc) so its something to keep in mind if you're really new to the game.

Jybwee
03-20-2011, 12:01 PM
Eh, I'd be lying if I said I knew much as far as building a Repeater Rogue. :P But my understanding of it is that Int is more or less your Str since its added to your damage the same as it, while Dex is your hit. Got a good head on you considering you set out wanting good Con anyways, so you're plenty farther along than most. :P I'd recommend taking a look at the Repeater Rogue (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=266855) thread. Lots of info, build advice, gear to aim for, etc in there. I'm sure a few of the other posters can give some more details concerning a good Repeater build but I dunno how to go about it myself.

whoa, i didn't see that thread before.. lots o reading to do :P ty much for the advice... and yea i have a 20 mnk but i raced to 20 perty fast with him and i wouldn't say he's gimped but i definitely see mistakes that i made. I'm taking much more time with my next character and planing ahead.

again - thx all.

vVAnjilaVv
03-20-2011, 12:10 PM
Unless I totally missed it, no one has pointed out that halflings get an inherent +1 bonus to saves, and have 3 tiers for each type of save they can raise by 3 points for 6 AP each.....meaning u can add an additional +3 to your will saves there if ur worried about it.

With the new implementation of Heroic Surge and many will based spells featuring much more frequent saves nowadays......it's not as big a deal as it used to be, still important tho.

Malithar45
03-20-2011, 12:22 PM
whoa, i didn't see that thread before.. lots o reading to do :P ty much for the advice... and yea i have a 20 mnk but i raced to 20 perty fast with him and i wouldn't say he's gimped but i definitely see mistakes that i made. I'm taking much more time with my next character and planing ahead.
Yeah, quite the thread. Some of the early info might be a little out of date, can't remember off hand if it was started before or after the Mechanic changes. I had missed that you had a 20 Monk though. Knowing that, just a personal thing, I'd prolly stay away from TWF Assassin, it'll make you hate your Monk. ;) Few things to keep in mind with Repeaters though sadly. Atm, they're bugged to occasionally not fire all of their bolts when they should, causing quite a number of misses. If aiming for a fun build, I'm sure it's something you'd enjoy, but it won't be able to approach the DPS offered by most melee builds very well, with the exception of Improved Precise Shot going and 3+ mobs within your trajectory. Good luck on the build.


Unless I totally missed it, no one has pointed out that halflings get an inherent +1 bonus to saves, and have 3 tiers for each type of save they can raise by 3 points for 6 AP each.....meaning u can add an additional +3 to your will saves there if ur worried about it.

While the +1 racial saves are nifty, can't find myself getting behind spending the APs for anything beyond perhaps the first tier as a dump point. Typically speaking, outside of splashing Monk and having A Wis worth something, Rogue's Will saves won't be worth much at many points in the game. Thought if you're ever able to fit in a +5 resist item and a +6 Wis item (Kyosho's Ring for example, or a free epic slot) they can get within range to save on a lot of things when buffed. Just can't quite see putting APs in to raise them when most of the effects can be avoided with FoM, Prot from Evil, Holy Aura, etc.

junior_w
03-20-2011, 12:29 PM
... Although +6 stat item only gives you +3 Search/DD (you may be including the other 2 from tome+capstone, maybe?)...

Thank you it was my mistake, already fixed. :)

I was considering the total INT with the +6 item.
20 INT = +5 modifier and forgot to subtrate 2 since the sample build started with 14 INT.