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View Full Version : Petition for an Arcane Healing spell for Women.



Seliana
03-19-2011, 03:01 AM
I am petitioning the Developers for a Arcane Style healing spell for Sorcerers that have trouble playing Warforged.

There are players who refuse to play Warforged yet are completely stuck with Scroll Healing and HP potions as their only means of incoming HP at end game on Sorcerers. The problem stems from the visual aspect of the Warforged, the giant hulking football linebacker body model is completely unappealing to many female players including myself.

I wouldn't mind the negative aspects such as 50% divine healing and -2 Charisma at all if I could simply get that on something that actually somewhat remotely represents a female in game. It could be a feminine model Warforged option, or perhaps a feat toggle that give negatives to divine healing and charisma but allows reconstruct on other races, or even a cool thematic ability for Elemental Savants to heal themselves with elemental damage. I would even happily buy the Warforged race from the DDO store for it and support the Development time put into this idea.

Please give us some sort of option. We're dying here... literally.

protokon
03-19-2011, 03:08 AM
not signed. nothing really else to say.

Gobbothegreen
03-19-2011, 03:34 AM
Honestly i think you are overexagerating the issue, if you can't deal with there being no option for true self healing on sorcs besides wf thats your problem. You shouldn't demand that turbine changes the artstyle of the game and the story behind wf's just to make the race appeal slightly more to you. If you so badly want a selfhealing caster make a pm or just try to ignore you bias against the wf look make one, they might be ugly as hell and don't have any female look but thats what they are supposed to be.

Personaly i did feel the same way about wfs a year ago, then i saw a wf build that felt very appealing to me. So i said to myself atleast they are better looking than the overweight kindergarden teachers (dwarfs) and made it.

Still don't enjoy the look of them but there is still something that has made me a little addicted to Wfs.

walkingwolfmike
03-19-2011, 03:35 AM
I can't really say I support this. It sounds to me that you want another way to heal yourself using arcane magic when not playing a WF and using the Reconstruct spell.
If that is the case, i just don't understand. Here's why:
I play many classes; divines, arcane( mine happens to be a Halfling ), melees and rogues. My melees suffer from the dependency of cure pots or candy canes, the rogue can umd himself some scrolls, and my arcane can ALSO umd himself a scroll.
Now I realize that in your OP you yourself mentioned the use of scrolls, so right on, umd is nothin new to you. But I don't get why you are asking that this be considered, especially the part of "female design WF". WF were not built to be a dual sexes race. They were a servant race iirc. ( maybe if you took your suggestion to the Lord of the Blades, he might consider constructing a more fem WF, but i would doubt it)
So bottom line even as an arcane having to use scrolls to stay alive, at least you can use a heal scroll. Most melees have to settle for CSW pots( the Coors Light of cure pots).

/not signed

licho
03-19-2011, 03:56 AM
What about Half Elf with Cleric Dilletante?
At least you can play woman, and use as many healing/wands as you like.

However it dosnt help with ugly looking issue.

kelemvelor
03-19-2011, 04:03 AM
/not signed: for arcane female healing spell

/signed: for improving the model for female warforged.

+1 to OP for phrasing it in that way. Guess this is what happens when they dump the Sense Motive skill in DDO.

nolaureltree000
03-19-2011, 04:08 AM
i dont think its fair to push the aesthetic characteristics of a human onto another race like a WF. it seems incredibly human-centric and seeks to elevate the ideals of humans above all other races. i suppose you could group in some other races like elves with the humans here, but i think you get the point im trying to convey.

just my two cents. i certainly understand your sentiments, i just dont agree with them.

Doxmaster
03-19-2011, 04:21 AM
No thank you.

Alabore
03-19-2011, 04:29 AM
/signed on providing WF with more model options.

Timmeke123456
03-19-2011, 04:45 AM
I am petitioning the Developers for a Arcane Style healing spell for Sorcerers that have trouble playing Warforged.

There are players who refuse to play Warforged yet are completely stuck with Scroll Healing and HP potions as their only means of incoming HP at end game on Sorcerers. The problem stems from the visual aspect of the Warforged, the giant hulking football linebacker body model is completely unappealing to many female players including myself.

I wouldn't mind the negative aspects such as 50% divine healing and -2 Charisma at all if I could simply get that on something that actually somewhat remotely represents a female in game. It could be a feminine model Warforged option, or perhaps a feat toggle that give negatives to divine healing and charisma but allows reconstruct on other races, or even a cool thematic ability for Elemental Savants to heal themselves with elemental damage. I would even happily buy the Warforged race from the DDO store for it and support the Development time put into this idea.

Please give us some sort of option. We're dying here... literally.

/Not Signed

What about melee's (thinkin of barbs/fighters) They have no mean of incoming healing except for a well willing clr/fvs & pots that heal 30hp (when having 600 hp). Or do you think they should also get a feat (like stunning blow or trip) that instantly heals themselves for a 100hp?? Imagine how clr's & fvs's would become unwanted if every class suddenly had their own healing tricks... Just saying ;)

Cheers!

zex95966
03-19-2011, 05:15 AM
/Not Signed

What about melee's (thinkin of barbs/fighters) They have no mean of incoming healing except for a well willing clr/fvs & pots that heal 30hp (when having 600 hp). Or do you think they should also get a feat (like stunning blow or trip) that instantly heals themselves for a 100hp?? Imagine how clr's & fvs's would become unwanted if every class suddenly had their own healing tricks... Just saying ;)

Cheers!

ridiculous logic.
if everyone is busy healing themselves no one is doing damage that is why clerics and FVS will always be in use so that they can kill while the clerics cover them and add their own stuff when healing isn't needed. otherwise everyone would just play a warforged arcane since apparently they make clerics and fvs useless.

/signed

for more varied looks for our characters to appeal to our female gamers, but as per all the arcanes having the self heal, I can't say I agree simply because the concept for whoever thought of it first was a good one, and it would lose it's uniqueness.

Kinerd
03-19-2011, 08:24 PM
i dont think its fair to push the aesthetic characteristics of a human onto another race like a WF. it seems incredibly human-centric and seeks to elevate the ideals of humans above all other races. i suppose you could group in some other races like elves with the humans here, but i think you get the point im trying to convey.

just my two cents. i certainly understand your sentiments, i just dont agree with them.House Cannith (claims to have) built the Warforged that we use, it would only stand to reason that human-esque aesthetics would apply to feminizing the Warforged.

KillEveryone
03-19-2011, 08:31 PM
So really you are asking for female looking bodies for WF.

If that is the case then I can accept that idea but I'm indifferent. It would add a bit more flavor to the game if WF didn't all look the same and as hero types rolling in the plat, it would make sense for WF to be able to adjust their body toward their chosen sexual orientation. I guess I could /sign to that just for variety.


If you are asking that sorcerers can have the ability to cast healing spells from their SP, well they are playing an arcane and not a divine so you only get to repair constructs, not heal fleshies. You will just have to deal with heal scrolls when you play a fleshy.

In the second case.../not signed.

Impatiens
03-19-2011, 08:34 PM
I also can't bring myself to play a WF for similar reasons. I would love to see WF females look different. They certainly don't need to be pretty, they don't even really need to look female, but it would be nice if their torsos were less...triangular. There are WF NPCs in the game that have a much smaller looking build. They still look androgynous, leaning towards masculine, but at least the don't look like linebackers. I see no reason why female WF couldn't use this model while male WF use the current one.

I don't think anything should be added for arcane casters to be able to heal themselves with reconstruct unless they are WF, but I would love to see some difference in appearance between male and female WF.

Hokiewa
03-19-2011, 09:03 PM
/not signed

testing1234
03-19-2011, 09:07 PM
would not mind bigger customization in the visual art for WF.
do feel the WF offer a unique "look" been very happy with some of my WFs but the body is identical to all other WF if you disregard the color and if you dont have room for mithril/adamantin feats.

id also appreciate being able to feel my WF character does not look exactly the same as all other WF.
a slightly feminine model seems the most obvious way to start this with.

Hokiewa
03-19-2011, 09:56 PM
would not mind bigger customization in the visual art for WF.
do feel the WF offer a unique "look" been very happy with some of my WFs but the body is identical to all other WF if you disregard the color and if you dont have room for mithril/adamantin feats.

id also appreciate being able to feel my WF character does not look exactly the same as all other WF.
a slightly feminine model seems the most obvious way to start this with.

There is a perfect "lore" reason why this is the case.

Impatiens
03-19-2011, 09:59 PM
There is a perfect "lore" reason why this is the case.

I'm sure they could also come up with a perfectly good "lore" reason why not all WF have the same build. It would be nice to have some variety. I don't think anyone is asking for super feminine looking WF, but some distinction between the two would be nice.

Orratti
03-19-2011, 10:11 PM
i dont think its fair to push the aesthetic characteristics of a human onto another race like a WF. it seems incredibly human-centric and seeks to elevate the ideals of humans above all other races. i suppose you could group in some other races like elves with the humans here, but i think you get the point im trying to convey.

just my two cents. i certainly understand your sentiments, i just dont agree with them.

Warforged were created by humans they didn't just crawl out of the organic soup. Maybe some would like to forget that while wiping fleshies off their blades but it's still a fact. Were an artist to create such a thing as a female warforged I don't think that the lines they are currently built on would be the choice of lines they would make. Something from the cover of an Isaac Asimov book would be more likely. Something sheen and silver with some nice curves maybe. Even the female terminator was pretty hot. I would like to see something a little more feminine in the female warforged but hey I've been looking at warforged along time so I really don't care.

As for non repairing/palemaster arcanes self healing, nope not interested.

Hokiewa
03-19-2011, 10:22 PM
I'm sure they could also come up with a perfectly good "lore" reason why not all WF have the same build. It would be nice to have some variety. I don't think anyone is asking for super feminine looking WF, but some distinction between the two would be nice.

or one could ask for female dwarves to look different. It's a ridiculous suggestion based on the OP's premise. That premise being, I can't self-heal as an arcane without using heal scrolls etc....because I'm not a WF. Seriously, if you are playing the game.....

That is the absurd part.

Calebro
03-19-2011, 10:27 PM
Two words: Pale Master

/thread

FlyingTurtle
03-19-2011, 11:38 PM
If I made robots, they'd all have the smooth female shape (much like how sports cars do), rather than the fugly angular top-heavy male shape.

Uska
03-19-2011, 11:40 PM
No to arcane healing spell and if they can add your female wf body without wasting def time why not but suspect it would be more trouble than it's worth

TheDearLeader
03-19-2011, 11:43 PM
You are living constructs.

We didn't build you to complain about how you were built.

Back to work, creations. Minions. The Lord of Blades will not be coming to save you.

/whip

yodino
03-20-2011, 03:31 AM
You are living constructs.

We didn't build you to complain about how you were built.

Back to work, creations. Minions. The Lord of Blades will not be coming to save you.

/whip

You realze if the Lord of Blades had a female body kit applied to it, he'd become the Queen of Blades. DDO/Starcraft crossover anyone?

Alabore
03-20-2011, 05:47 AM
If I made robots, they'd all have the smooth female shape (much like how sports cars do), rather than the fugly angular top-heavy male shape.

^^^
This.

TDarkchylde
03-20-2011, 05:58 AM
As a woman who plays WF casters, I gotta /notsign the prospect of repair spells possibly applying to fleshies.

I'll /sign for a distinct "female" model Warforged body. I'm fine with the body shape being as it is, but waking up one day to find my toasters a little less angular and a little more streamlined would be a pleasant surprise.

testing1234
03-20-2011, 09:29 AM
There is a perfect "lore" reason why this is the case.

after this is done some of them modify their bodies for different reasons, one of them being better to fit into a human society.
just look at the lord of blades im certain you wont claim he was built with all his blades all over him.

NaturalHazard
03-20-2011, 09:35 AM
bards get arcane healing spells.

sorcs have high charisma right? so umd for scroll healing?

Teech
03-20-2011, 09:36 AM
I've seen some female bodybuilders that look like warforges.... :p

Rickpa
03-20-2011, 09:49 AM
Warforged self identify as male, female, and neuter, It makes sense that they would modify their bodies according to this. They are not robots, but sentient constructs with varying degrees of empathy and antipathy towards the fleshy races.

In Ebberon lore, some warforged go to great lengths to become more like fleshlings, even to the point of giving up the ability to be healed my arcane repair. Others fully embrace their construct side, and give up their ability to be healed by divine magic.

Warforged are as complex and varied as any other sentient beings, and just as docents can modify their body characteristics and appearance, it makes sense that those who choose would look in such a way as to reflect their feminine self-image, can do so.... even beyond the color pink.

Therigar
03-20-2011, 09:50 AM
i dont think its fair to push the aesthetic characteristics of a human onto another race like a WF. it seems incredibly human-centric and seeks to elevate the ideals of humans above all other races.

If I understand the storyline correctly warforged come in all sizes and shapes and colors. The are, indeed, constructs made artificially to serve some specific purpose.

The warforged race has become sentient but does not reproduce. If there are warforged children it is only because they have been constructed in that form.

If we look at all the other player races we see that they have male and female members. It seems probable that in manufacturing warforged there would have been reasons to construct some that bear reasonable similarity to females in other races.

The reason is simplistic, actually. People tend to remember certain sizes, shapes and genders. There are places where female looking constructs could go where male appearing constructs would stand out.

And, there are always the perverts in any society that would simply want to create an army of female warriors for the perverse pleasure that it would give them.

Unless there is something inherent in the manufacturing process that prevents such construction it is unrealistic to think that no female looking warforged were ever developed.

In this situation it is not a gender issue per se. It is a functionality issue. How better to infiltrate than by appearing to be nothing more than a serving wench? How better to comfort a wounded warrior than by appearing to be a carrying nurse? How better to confuse and daze your enemy than by appearing to be a sexually exploitive strumpet?

The rationale for female anatomy on a warforged is certainly consistent with any society.

And, don't I recall a book cover or other artwork depicting female bodied warforged?

Just saying....

Blackbird
03-20-2011, 09:53 AM
I'm female. I have 2 WF casters (one silver, one red (should have done light blue -- WF dye kits please)) and a WF barbarian (bright yellow). You want Turbine to change the game because you don't like the way WF look? Really? Isn't that a little absurd and selfish? If you don't like the fact that you can't reliably heal yourself, play a WF. This is a video game, what does it matter what you look like? Lots of people don't like to play certain races for whatever reason, some only place certain races. But, just because YOU don't want to play a race for some reason doesn't mean that the game should be changed to give you benefits of that race while not actually playing that race.

Want something to complain about how it looks? Complain about female armor kits (or half-elves, also ugly). I had to try on like 7 on my dwarven fighter to find one with PANTS! Yes, pants. No one, including myself, wants to see my dwarven fighter with heavy armor on top, french cut panties on the bottom (I was covering up Epic Cav Plate, which is also ugly).

/notsigned

Sker-lyn
03-20-2011, 10:10 AM
This is... ridiculous to a point I didn't think was possible.

First: Do you know what classes are for?? You can't ask to heal with a sorc in a fleshy toon (warforged is another story and make sense) in the same fashion you can't ask a warrior to cast spells with no single level in any caster class.

You have warforged, take it or leave it, to heal with magic. You don't like their looks? Play a cleric... you self heal and can be very pretty in elf pants.

And I'm a woman and I like warforgeds... I would mind to have more means to make my characters unique but the devs have a lot of things more important to be working on... If I must to chose between new classes, quests, zones, craft, bug fixing and warforged femenine looks, I prefer the firsts over it.

You know, isn't only make a 3d model for female warforged, devs would have to make a whole new version of every docent in game, in every body type for warforged. That is a really mad work and complete unnecesary.

Elation
03-20-2011, 10:20 AM
Simbul’s synostodweomer

This spell could be added with out making it totally overpowered and target for self only can not heal other with it.

Name Synostodweomer
Alternate Names Simbul's Synostodweomer
School Transmutation [Positive]
Level Sor/Wiz 7
Recharge Time General
Version Magic of Faerun
Sources Magic of Faerun on page 119
Short Description Channel a spell into positive energy to cure 1d6/spell level.

Add it if ya can devs it would be useful.

azrael4h
03-20-2011, 10:39 AM
I'm sure they could also come up with a perfectly good "lore" reason why not all WF have the same build. It would be nice to have some variety. I don't think anyone is asking for super feminine looking WF, but some distinction between the two would be nice.

IIRC, there are WF with different builds. WF Titans and WF Scouts, for example.

Besides that, fleshy arcane self healing is available in DDO by being a Pale Master. In PnP, there were also spells which drained life from one target and into the caster, which could be implemented.

shaolaolint
03-20-2011, 06:07 PM
It's seems no one read what she wrote. All she's asking for is the female WF to look feminine. Reading some of these posts all I see is reading comprehension fails

unfiguroutable
03-20-2011, 06:14 PM
sounds like the WF I know. Fits lore perfect. They are big, ugly, and inhuman.

Veileira
03-20-2011, 06:24 PM
You shouldn't demand that turbine changes the artstyle of the game and the story behind wf's just to make the race appeal slightly more to you.

Warforged scout models are not in the game. They're more slender, still androgynous, but could be "female" wf. It wouldn't change the story at all to include them.

xxScoobyDooxx
03-20-2011, 06:30 PM
So your saying you want bigger mechanical breasts???

I'd buy that for a dollar

Falco_Easts
03-20-2011, 06:57 PM
First, not having lady parts is not the same as having man parts.

/signed for having more body types. Not just on WF but all races. Why can't I play a fat human?

/not signed to your reasons for it.

Illiain
03-20-2011, 07:06 PM
As a tradeoff for your self healing, I would like a long duration divine spell that causes damage without having to kite around. Allow Blade Barrier to deal damage to anything standing within it.

Oh look, now there's no reason to bring Arcanes into anything if a Divine can deal aoe damage and heal the group. Grab a Bard for haste/rage/GH/displacement. Wizards and Sorcs would be completely useless. Guess there was meant to be balance for a reason.

/not signed

Sweyn
03-20-2011, 07:12 PM
I am petitioning the Developers for a Arcane Style healing spell for Sorcerers that have trouble playing Warforged.

There are players who refuse to play Warforged yet are completely stuck with Scroll Healing and HP potions as their only means of incoming HP at end game on Sorcerers.
Please give us some sort of option. We're dying here... literally.

http://www.phawker.com/wp-content/uploads/laughing.gif

Lorien_the_First_One
03-20-2011, 07:17 PM
You choose to kill yourself? Your fault.

Fleshy sorc can self heal just fine, you did maximize UMD right?

dunklezhan
03-20-2011, 07:35 PM
Turbine is not stopping you playing a WF arcane. Frankly, (and rather more bluntly than I would usually put this) your ego is stopping you.

I sympathise very much that you cannot get the asthetic look you want with your WF. I can't get the one I want with a Helf. But if I choose not to play a Helf because of looks, and thereby do my character out of a dilletante feat, that is entirely my doing, not Turbines.

I will certainly /sign more body options for WF (all races actually). In the case of WF I would also /sign the ability to change the character's appearance in a similar manner to an enhancement respec as and when you wish - its a paint job, some nails and some carving at the end of the day. They're about the only race in a fantasy setting where cosmetic surgery would be pretty straightforward and make sense. In the PnP game docents are more than just chest pieces, and body augmentations are standard stuff. No reason they couldn't shave a bit off here, and add a curve there if you ask me. A +4 docent of C Cup is really not out of the question.

But to do it so 'women' have a way to self heal on an arcane? If a man had said this, it would be considered patronising in the extreme, if not sexist, and rightly so. And if its good for the goose, its good for the gander as far as I'm concerned.

Adarro
03-20-2011, 07:57 PM
So your saying you want bigger mechanical breasts???

I'd buy that for a dollar

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_DKfb-mqPXNM/Rx-NwpMo_KI/AAAAAAAAAAU/_PUcWe9Tue0/s320/Aphrodite-breast-fire.jpg (http://www.giantrobotministry.blogspot.com/)

Alabore
03-20-2011, 08:24 PM
/signed for having more body types. Not just on WF but all races. Why can't I play a fat human?

^^^
This.

I'd like my human rogues to be shorter and slimmer.
I'd like my elven rangers to be stockier and heavier muscled.
I'd like my female humans to be graceful.
I like my female elves very much, thank you.

;)

parvo
03-20-2011, 08:40 PM
While I find the OPs argument lacking, I support a feminine looking warforged option. I get tired of the sausagefest myself.

Ttip
03-21-2011, 03:27 AM
In the Eberron novels I have read, Keith Baker's Dreaming Dark Trilogy specifically, Pierce is a WF scout Ranger and of a smaller than typical body-type himself. And he meets a 'female' WF assassin that is most definately of a female body type. Since Baker is a primary creator of the Eberron universe, it is certainly worth adding to DDO, right after Gnomes, Druids and the rest of the missing PrEs that we all want to see. The Devs are hard at work and adding new things on a regular basis. I say we give them the chance to keep up their good work in providing quality content. And that they add the body type choices into character creation to their to do lists, but not as a priority over new quests and PrE for existing classes/races.

Blackbird
03-21-2011, 09:11 AM
It's seems no one read what she wrote. All she's asking for is the female WF to look feminine. Reading some of these posts all I see is reading comprehension fails

Really?


I am petitioning the Developers for a Arcane Style healing spell for Sorcerers that have trouble playing Warforged.


Now who failed their reading comprehension?

Sure, towards the end she says:


The problem stems from the visual aspect of the Warforged, the giant hulking football linebacker body model is completely unappealing to many female players including myself.

I wouldn't mind the negative aspects such as 50% divine healing and -2 Charisma at all if I could simply get that on something that actually somewhat remotely represents a female in game. It could be a feminine model Warforged option, or perhaps a feat toggle that give negatives to divine healing and charisma but allows reconstruct on other races, or even a cool thematic ability for Elemental Savants to heal themselves with elemental damage. I would even happily buy the Warforged race from the DDO store for it and support the Development time put into this idea.

Please give us some sort of option. We're dying here... literally.

This explains WHY she won't play a WF. She also says she might be willing to play a WF if it "represents a female" (not that I think it represents a man either) but also posits a feat toggle. BUT, she starts off by saying she wants "a[n] Arcane Style healing spell for Sorcerers that have trouble playing Warforged". That was her first request. So saying that "all she was asking for is a feminine WF" is incorrect. The TITLE OF THE THREAD is "petition for an arcane healing spell for women" (which I find a bit offensive -- why would the player's gender matter for a spell? Are we going to implement "male only" spells and classes now too?) NOT "petition for more feminine WF bodies".

I personally don't think WF look male or female. They are living constructs. If you read the Eberron book it specifically says "[w]arforged have no physical distinction of gender; all of them have a basically muscular, sexless body shape." Another quote from the Eberron book -- "In personality, some warforged seem more masculine or feminine, but different people might judge the same warforged in different ways. The warforged themselves seem unconcerned with matters of gender." If you made WF visible "female" or "male" you could be changing them from what they are in D&D. Why? I just think asking for a special game-breaking spell because she doesn't like the way WF look is absurd. I also find it a little offensive that she tried to link her problem to "many female players" and titling the thread "for women". I'm female and I have no issue with playing a WF character. Hell, I would play a male character if that was all that was available. I. Do. Not. Care. This is a VIDEO game, jeebus. It saddens me that someone would so concerned about their appearance in a video game. Where's Uma? She loves WF (a little too much....kinda creepy :p).

I'm sorry if this comes off a little angry but I do find this suggestion offensive. I think women should strive for equality in the world, not for special treatment because of our gender. That would be going backwards. This is asking for special treatment because of gender.

toughguyjoe
03-21-2011, 09:32 AM
/signed on providing WF with more model options.

This I agree with.

Heck a feminine model would be kinda cool.

Ghoste needs some hawt Fembots!

toughguyjoe
03-21-2011, 09:35 AM
I get tired of the sausagefest myself.

Toki: "Oh I love Sausage Festival! Like in Vienna!"

Parvo: "No Toki..that was actual, Sausage Festival...Idiot."

tkrenaud
03-21-2011, 12:35 PM
This is the suggestion section isn't it? As far as I know you are allowed to post ANY suggestion however silly or ludicrous it may seem to others. While I can agree with some of the thoughts expressed (though a bit too harshly), did it ever occur to you that maybe Seliana isn't as knowledgable as you might be in Eberron history? Perhaps she actually realized midway through posting that what she was asking was probably not feasible and thus tapered her request back a bit (started requesting Arcane Healing spell for women and ended asking for different appearance in warforged characters).

It seems to me that people are picking apart the words rather than the general idea expressed. If I understood her problem correctly: she likes to play female characters, she likes to play sorcs, and she is having a hard time keeping her health at the level that warforged sorcs do (through reconstruct etc). She then posited possible solutions to HER problem, some radical, some not so radical.

Since this is the forum for suggestions and ideas, if you do not like her idea and feel it necessary to respond, perhaps you should explain why you think it is wrong in a rational manner. e.g.: the history of warforged makes it so, sorcs are powerful in other ways and thats why they don't have arcane healing for non-wf, have you tried a hireling, etc.

I'm not sure that phrasing your objections to the original suggestion in an abusive or angry manner is going to get your point across any more acutely (if at all).

Despite popular belief, some people do play this game as it was originally intended: a fantasy role playing game. As such they may want to make their character as closely as they can to their envisioned character. I personally suspect that giving sorcs an arcane healing spell for use on non-wf would severely unbalance the game, but she is certainly entitled to her suggestion. She is certainly not alone in her desire to make her character appear in a certain manner as evidenced by the recent armor kits and the changes made to docent appearances in the past. Personally I don't place much thought on what my character looks like after character creation, but that does not entitle me to rebuke all who do.

I am reluctant to post much on the forums as they seem to have become less of a community and more of an area dominated by harshness. I suspect I am not alone in that belief. Do you really want to discourage people from expressing their ideas? What if someone has an innovative idea that you (or all of us) DO agree with but is afraid to express it? We all lose then.

Illiain
03-21-2011, 12:40 PM
In the Eberron novels I have read, Keith Baker's Dreaming Dark Trilogy specifically, Pierce is a WF scout Ranger and of a smaller than typical body-type himself. And he meets a 'female' WF assassin that is most definately of a female body type. Since Baker is a primary creator of the Eberron universe, it is certainly worth adding to DDO, right after Gnomes, Druids and the rest of the missing PrEs that we all want to see. The Devs are hard at work and adding new things on a regular basis. I say we give them the chance to keep up their good work in providing quality content. And that they add the body type choices into character creation to their to do lists, but not as a priority over new quests and PrE for existing classes/races.


The scout model has different racial bonuses from the normal one. It's basically a halfling, but it has been a part of the 3.5 Eberron game for quite a while.

Warforged Scouts as Characters

Warforged scouts often become rangers or rogues, making use of their inherent stealth for reconnaissance and guerilla warfare. Others take more martial paths as fighters or barbarians, while still others become spellcasters.
Warforged scouts possess the following racial traits.
— +2 Dexterity, –2 Strength, –2 Wisdom, –2 Charisma.
—Small size. +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, –4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 3/4 those of Medium characters.
—A warforged scout’s base land speed is 20 feet.
—Special Qualities (see above): Composite plating, light fortification, living construct traits.
—Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus Languages: None.
—Favored Class: Rogue.

Cyr
03-21-2011, 12:45 PM
/not signed

Changing game mechanics based upon someone's feelings about how something looks is never a good idea.

Changing how something looks based upon complaints on the other hand is perfectly acceptable and logical.

Chai
03-21-2011, 12:47 PM
There are players who refuse to play Warforged yet are completely stuck with Scroll Healing and HP potions as their only means of incoming HP at end game on Sorcerers. The problem stems from the visual aspect of the Warforged, the giant hulking football linebacker body model is completely unappealing to many female players including myself.

Versus what, the sheer quantity of supermodel elf and drow who get rolled up predominantly by RL men who use the excuse that they would rather stare at a female hiney than a male hiney while playing the game? I think you have to take the bad with the good here. There are some options however.

1. Roll up a supermodel necromancer. Plenty of self healing for those hot drow!!
2. Roll up a half elf, take cleric dilly, use scrolls.
3. Play a male toon to offset all the men who play female toons. :p

Westerner
03-21-2011, 12:52 PM
The OP's post is a bit confusing, but I'm going to interpret it as a request for fembots. :)

I've got no problem with that.

Tom318
03-21-2011, 12:54 PM
I am petitioning the Developers for a Arcane Style healing spell for Sorcerers that have trouble playing Warforged.

There are players who refuse to play Warforged yet are completely stuck with Scroll Healing and HP potions as their only means of incoming HP at end game on Sorcerers. The problem stems from the visual aspect of the Warforged, the giant hulking football linebacker body model is completely unappealing to many female players including myself.

I wouldn't mind the negative aspects such as 50% divine healing and -2 Charisma at all if I could simply get that on something that actually somewhat remotely represents a female in game. It could be a feminine model Warforged option, or perhaps a feat toggle that give negatives to divine healing and charisma but allows reconstruct on other races, or even a cool thematic ability for Elemental Savants to heal themselves with elemental damage. I would even happily buy the Warforged race from the DDO store for it and support the Development time put into this idea.

Please give us some sort of option. We're dying here... literally.

I saw a pink one with breastplates in CC, if that helps :)

Tumarek
03-21-2011, 01:01 PM
I dont know.... i think we would end up with something like this....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f5/Futurama_ep67.jpg/205px-Futurama_ep67.jpg

Gulnar13
03-21-2011, 01:03 PM
If I understand the storyline correctly warforged come in all sizes and shapes and colors. The are, indeed, constructs made artificially to serve some specific purpose.

As the name say: war. And being bigger, and, by extent, stronger and more resiliant help in battle.



In this situation it is not a gender issue per se. It is a functionality issue. How better to infiltrate than by appearing to be nothing more than a serving wench? How better to comfort a wounded warrior than by appearing to be a carrying nurse? How better to confuse and daze your enemy than by appearing to be a sexually exploitive strumpet?


How can ye be a better infiltrator? By being small, and nimble (Warforged scouts).
How can ye be a better healer? By being big, covered in spikes, and with a giant sword. You're a cleric of the Lord of the Blades, or of the Godforged. Lesser, caring gods are for the meatbags. We revere a Lawful Evil entity bent upon the destruction of the fleshlings; we intimidate the damage off the wounded.
And for the last question... by being on flames, and screaming for the blood of the lesser races.

But anyway, the idea for more body types is good. I for one would welcome a body with more spikes. And the warforged scout race.

Blackbird
03-21-2011, 01:07 PM
This is the suggestion section isn't it? As far as I know you are allowed to post ANY suggestion however silly or ludicrous it may seem to others. While I can agree with some of the thoughts expressed (though a bit too harshly), did it ever occur to you that maybe Seliana isn't as knowledgable as you might be in Eberron history? Perhaps she actually realized midway through posting that what she was asking was probably not feasible and thus tapered her request back a bit (started requesting Arcane Healing spell for women and ended asking for different appearance in warforged characters).

It seems to me that people are picking apart the words rather than the general idea expressed. If I understood her problem correctly: she likes to play female characters, she likes to play sorcs, and she is having a hard time keeping her health at the level that warforged sorcs do (through reconstruct etc). She then posited possible solutions to HER problem, some radical, some not so radical.

Since this is the forum for suggestions and ideas, if you do not like her idea and feel it necessary to respond, perhaps you should explain why you think it is wrong in a rational manner. e.g.: the history of warforged makes it so, sorcs are powerful in other ways and thats why they don't have arcane healing for non-wf, have you tried a hireling, etc.

I'm not sure that phrasing your objections to the original suggestion in an abusive or angry manner is going to get your point across any more acutely (if at all).

Despite popular belief, some people do play this game as it was originally intended: a fantasy role playing game. As such they may want to make their character as closely as they can to their envisioned character. I personally suspect that giving sorcs an arcane healing spell for use on non-wf would severely unbalance the game, but she is certainly entitled to her suggestion. She is certainly not alone in her desire to make her character appear in a certain manner as evidenced by the recent armor kits and the changes made to docent appearances in the past. Personally I don't place much thought on what my character looks like after character creation, but that does not entitle me to rebuke all who do.

I am reluctant to post much on the forums as they seem to have become less of a community and more of an area dominated by harshness. I suspect I am not alone in that belief. Do you really want to discourage people from expressing their ideas? What if someone has an innovative idea that you (or all of us) DO agree with but is afraid to express it? We all lose then.

Did I say she wasn't allowed to post her suggestion? No. But when you post your suggestions on a public forum you are opening yourself up to critiques and criticisms of your idea. Last time I checked, everyone wasn't required to agree with people on the forums. I criticized this suggestion because it is based solely on gender, a basis I find it abhorrent to make classifications based on. Guess I'm not entitled to *my* opinion or to be offended at the suggestion that the game that I've played for the last 5 years needs to be changed to accommodate my gender. Sure, I have made suggestions about being able to dye my WF pink (and got mad when they got rid of pink docents) but that's no different that requesting armor kits and certainly doesn't affect fundamental game balance or mechanics.

If she changed her mind halfway through her post, there are means to edit what you have previously typed (i.e. backspace or "edit" if you already clicked "post"). Either way, she wanted a game mechanic changed because she didn't like the way something looked. It doesn't matter what the Eberron history is of it. I wouldn't have even clicked on a post suggesting different body types for WF. But, I did click on a post entitled "petition for an arcane healing spell for women".

Gorbadoc
03-21-2011, 01:14 PM
If you can't deal with there being no option for true self healing on sorcs besides wf thats your problem.
It's her problem, and the fact that Turbine could get her to pay for them to resolve the problem means it's their opportunity.

You shouldn't demand that turbine changes the artstyle of the game and the story behind wf's just to make the race appeal slightly more to you.
The aesthetic objections to warforged really shouldn't be a point for argument. There's a hypothetical product: Additional appearance options for warforged. Some people want to buy this product. Other people do not want to buy this product. If enough people want to buy it, Turbine can make a profit on developing it.

Personally, I support the OP. I'd love being able to make aesthetic decisions independent of gameplay-optimization decisions. "Robo-midget" and "robo-elf" would have to have all the usual warforged penalties for it to be fair, of course (including -2 charisma); I want to buy aesthetic flexibility, and I expect no gameplay advantages for doing so.

And anyway, if this kind of option makes nerdy, aesthetically-inclined women play DDO more, well... let's just say I think of them as a traditionally underrepresented demographic.

bigolbear
03-21-2011, 01:26 PM
I see no reason why diferent warforge body types should not be added (scout models, heavy models etc)
I also see no reason why a female body chasis should not exist.
If these were added id make them cosmetic options available via the store - id probably end up buying a heavy , and a scout model.

however adding a healing spell for any arcane would be a bad move, even self only.

Im sory but if your not happy with the look of your character that is your problem, not the games. many guys choose to play female characters so why not expand your mind a bit and play a male. Your character isnt you and no one will think you look like a big huking statue in real life because your playing one in a game.

Druxan
03-21-2011, 01:28 PM
Turbine should just put Vampiric Touch in the game...

Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous/1 hour;
see text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

You must succeed on a melee touch attack. Your touch deals 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 10d6). You gain temporary hit points equal to the damage you deal. However, you can’t gain more than the subject’s current hit points +10, which is enough to kill the subject. The temporary hit points disappear 1 hour later.

Drakos
03-21-2011, 01:33 PM
/not signed

Sorry, you want the benefits of a race you should play that race. The fact that ther is no varriation between stock Male and Female WF is by design and fall perfectly within the setting. WF don't have gender, they are all made from the same molds as it were, with minor changes to the facial appearence. The only reason they should even have a choice of gender is because many seem to develope attitudes/preferences that would emulate one gender od the other.

There have been a few cases of a WF making extreme changes to their actual structure to mimic gender traits, but not enough to warrent this exception to the rule in DDO.

Drakos
03-21-2011, 01:40 PM
House Cannith (claims to have) built the Warforged that we use, it would only stand to reason that human-esque aesthetics would apply to feminizing the Warforged.
Why? Cannith built them as instruments of war not for dinner parites. They were built to be physically impossing and more combat functional. Asthetics like more curvature and simulated breasts would serve NO purpose in making them better war machines, and the extra time/effort for such would be uncalled for.

Now, the Warforged Scouts were not built so impossing, they were meant for stealth, but still now need for gender specific alterations to the base design.

Ghoste
03-21-2011, 01:45 PM
This I agree with.

Heck a feminine model would be kinda cool.

Ghoste needs some hawt Fembots!
My daughter just started playing DDO. She likes warforged, but she also likes "prettier" things. This would be perfect for her. Plus I would be able to bring along sorc hirelings instead of cleris in our parties.

Blank_Zero
03-21-2011, 01:49 PM
New models for WF would be cool, but it'd be an Art Team issue, not a Dev issue.

As such, I'm /signed to this idea, as it won't pull away from Dev time making more awesome packs for us to play :D

Also,

Turbine should just put Vampiric Touch in the game...

Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous/1 hour;
see text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

You must succeed on a melee touch attack. Your touch deals 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 10d6). You gain temporary hit points equal to the damage you deal. However, you can’t gain more than the subject’s current hit points +10, which is enough to kill the subject. The temporary hit points disappear 1 hour later.

PM Monk gets even better? YES PLZ!

Drakos
03-21-2011, 01:52 PM
If I made robots, they'd all have the smooth female shape (much like how sports cars do), rather than the fugly angular top-heavy male shape.
First, not robots! Animated Metal, Stone, and Plant Matter not gears and microchips.

Secondly, If I were designing a construct for mass production , to be used as implements of war, I'd not bother varrying their structure to invclude non-benificais elements. Their design would be dicatated by simplicity and functionality. After the war their creation was outlawed on Korimvare when they were declared to be sentient and given the right to self-determination.

andbr22
03-21-2011, 01:55 PM
Ugh... The image would be more disturbing for me than normal looking female WF, or ever dwarf female...

Some lore. WFs was forged for war (on other continent that finished with destruction of one Country, WF got independednt after war, and after that they could choose their gender (and were no longer produced)). They were THINGS -> golem, that served, but had some autonomic functions (AI). Why would they need to be produced in form of male or female (The only reaon i thnik they would need female model is some crazy Gnome and his sex-toy (IT IS WRONG...))...

To think about female WF the closest thing that come to mind is one of Terry Pratchett books (with Lipwig) where you got Golem in the dress... Quite amusing...

Surcus1
03-21-2011, 01:58 PM
I would suggest removing genders somehow from Warforged entirely.

Alabore
03-21-2011, 01:58 PM
Why? Cannith built them as instruments of war not for dinner parites.


Because the Treaty of Thronehold had them emancipated from a purely military subservient function.
They *were* instruments of war. Now they are people. And they are free to choose whatever they want to look like.

...

;)

...

Or in other words, as other users already mentioned, it would make sense lore and rule wise for Warforged to get "modification" kits.

Drakos
03-21-2011, 01:58 PM
after this is done some of them modify their bodies for different reasons, one of them being better to fit into a human society.
just look at the lord of blades im certain you wont claim he was built with all his blades all over him.
I would almost bet that he has level of the Warforged Juggernaut PrC. That PrC gives you spikes that increase your slam damage.

Drakos
03-21-2011, 02:00 PM
Warforged are as complex and varied as any other sentient beings, and just as docents can modify their body characteristics and appearance, it makes sense that those who choose would look in such a way as to reflect their feminine self-image, can do so.... even beyond the color pink.
In the lore, Doccents don't change their appearence. Doccents are just intelligent magic items that the WF can allow to opperate their bodies.

Shaamis
03-21-2011, 02:05 PM
House Cannith (claims to have) built the Warforged that we use, it would only stand to reason that human-esque aesthetics would apply to feminizing the Warforged.

Warforged were made for war, and supposedly new warforged have not been made in a very long time. if its a race, its a dying race.

house Cannith hopes to aspire to the point of old glory, where they can be allowed or be capable of creating new warforged, THEN we might see more clandestine (and female shaped) warforged.

Also, I'm not sure if Turbine is allowed to change WotC's cannon on the Eberron info, i think thats keeping female warforged out of ddo more than imagining and creating female warforged.

Alabore
03-21-2011, 02:24 PM
Not sure about the canon argument.

We already have canon-breaking items and RL references - from hats to cosmetic kits to NPCs.
Would WotC even care - especially considering DDO is clinging onto a discontinued system, and had they their way with DDO 2, they'd make it 4th ed anyway?

Drakos
03-21-2011, 03:07 PM
It's seems no one read what she wrote. All she's asking for is the female WF to look feminine. Reading some of these posts all I see is reading comprehension fails
No she asked for "Arcane to have a healing spell for Women". She said she woul be happy with a female looking WF.

Drakos
03-21-2011, 03:08 PM
Warforged scout models are not in the game. They're more slender, still androgynous, but could be "female" wf. It wouldn't change the story at all to include them.
WF scouts are also small creatures like Halfling sized.

Gorbadoc
03-21-2011, 04:38 PM
Not sure about the canon argument.

We already have canon-breaking items and RL references - from hats to cosmetic kits to NPCs.

Besides, I don't think female warforged even break canon. As far as I know, the rules don't say that there are no female warforged. Despite what certain unimaginative people have said in this thread, I think there HAVE to have been female warforged.

DDO takes place in a magical world, where your physical strength and agility are determined by numbers on a page, NOT by your apparent physical dimensions. A male human barbarian with his big muscular arms has exactly zero advantage over a female human barbarian with her fine stick-like arms.

Warforged were designed by extremely smart people. They no doubt knew the rules; they knew that the combat characteristics of their creations would be completely unaffected by whatever aesthetic decisions they made.

They no doubt also knew something of humanoid psychology. There are any number of assignments where a warforged would have to have a positive social interaction with a particular humanoid. For such assignments, it makes the most sense to send a robot shaped in a way that would appeal to that particular humanoid. That could mean sending a manly-man warforged to deal with a sexist male captain; it could also mean sending a frail-looking lady warforged to a paladin with a penchant for protecting the weak. If I were building my warforged army, I would include every race and gender I ever expected to encounter on my warpath. After all, it would affect neither their cost nor combat functionality, and it would increase their non-combat usefulness.

Of course, if someone can cite a piece of Eberron canon that explicitly says there are no female warforged, I guess we'll have to go with that (even though that would make the canon painfully implausible). Failing that, though, DDO is actually unrealistic right now by not including warforged of every race, size, and gender.

mehlinda
03-21-2011, 04:51 PM
Please remove the easy button from DDO,, it is way too easy as it is

Drakos
03-21-2011, 04:58 PM
Besides, I don't think female warforged even break canon. As far as I know, the rules don't say that there are no female warforged. Despite what certain unimaginative people have said in this thread, I think there HAVE to have been female warforged.
There are no female Wareforged. There are no male Warforged, at leas in the cannon Eberron setting. All Warforged are genderless. Some Warforged, however, choose to identify with a particular gender and will even attempt to emulate personality characteristics of their prefered gender.


DDO takes place in a magical world, where your physical strength and agility are determined by numbers on a page, NOT by your apparent physical dimensions. A male human barbarian with his big muscular arms has exactly zero advantage over a female human barbarian with her fine stick-like arms.
Yes it is a magical world, wherein not every race conforms to the human way of existance, some races actually are very distinct, and I see no reason to force them into gender roles.


Warforged were designed by extremely smart people. They no doubt knew the rules; they knew that the combat characteristics of their creations would be completely unaffected by whatever aesthetic decisions they made.
They also knew of the beauty inherent is specific design choices. Many humanoids find huge lumbering creatures intimidating, and being smart the designers of the Warforged used that to it's fullest advantage.


They no doubt also knew something of humanoid psychology. There are any number of assignments where a warforged would have to have a positive social interaction with a particular humanoid. For such assignments, it makes the most sense to send a robot shaped in a way that would appeal to that particular humanoid. That could mean sending a manly-man warforged to deal with a sexist male captain; it could also mean sending a frail-looking lady warforged to a paladin with a penchant for protecting the weak. If I were building my warforged army, I would include every race and gender I ever expected to encounter on my warpath. After all, it would affect neither their cost nor combat functionality, and it would increase their non-combat usefulness.
I have to disagree that they would have expected any kind of need for Warforged to have positive social reactions. They were designed as shock troops to help suppliment the dwindiling humanoid warrior population.


Of course, if someone can cite a piece of Eberron canon that explicitly says there are no female warforged, I guess we'll have to go with that (even though that would make the canon painfully implausible). Failing that, though, DDO is actually unrealistic right now by not including warforged of every race, size, and gender.
Eberron Campaign Setting page 21

Waeforged have no physical distinction of gender; all of them have a basically muscular, sexless bodyshape. In personality, some warforged seem more masculine or feminine, but different people might judge the same warforged in different ways. The warforged themselves seem unconcerned with matters of gender. They do not age naturally, though their bodies do decay slowly even as their minds improve through learning and experience

Does that work, it is straight from the cannon rules book.

Alabore
03-21-2011, 06:24 PM
To be fair, I do see variations in size and shape, in official art.

Barbarian WFs tend to be larger and bulkier, often incorporating blades and sharply angled plates in their bodies.
Caster WFs look shorter and sleeker, sometimes wearing actual clothes or loose fitting hauberks.
I recall seeing a WF in swashbuckler clothes, and I distinctly recall a WF rogue wearing form fitting pants.

We are also taking real world assumptions on how crafting lines and mass production would be like in Eberron.
I am also questioning the real value of WFs as "shock" troops - if anything, they seem more suited, stat-wise, to prolonged siege warfare, since they never tire and need little in the way of supplies and relief.

I would tend to agree with Gorbadoc about some lack of imagination here: while canon does represent the starting point, it should not be the end of it.
As long as a variation stays consistent with the spirit of the whole canon, I am not one to complain.

Not every WF is crafted to the same specifications - or at least I don't really see a compelling reason to say so, unless we want to limit ourselves in our role playing opportunities.
Much the way not every suit of armour was crafted to fit the very same knight.

Maybe WF were crafted in more or less large bulks - so WF in the same group might share some kinship with its brethren.
But, really, it sounds too much sci-fi.
They are supposed to be closer to sentient golems than free-willed androids.

And canon sure tells us, as sentient beings, they sometimes choose to adopt a different outer shell to match their inner persona.

If I had an artificial body, I would surely look into customising it to suit my feeling and the general personality I want to project.
A peaceful, mellow minded WF, shunning violence after so much bloodshed, might actually try to have its body modified so as to look ANYTHING but a construct crafted to wage war.

Gorbadoc
03-21-2011, 06:45 PM
Eberron Campaign Setting page 21

Waeforged have no physical distinction of gender; all of them have a basically muscular, sexless bodyshape. In personality, some warforged seem more masculine or feminine, but different people might judge the same warforged in different ways. The warforged themselves seem unconcerned with matters of gender. They do not age naturally, though their bodies do decay slowly even as their minds improve through learning and experience

Does that work, it is straight from the cannon rules book.
Works for me. Thanks!


[COLOR=white][The designers of warforged] also knew of the beauty inherent is specific design choices. Many humanoids find huge lumbering creatures intimidating, and being smart the designers of the Warforged used that to it's fullest advantage.

I have to disagree that they would have expected any kind of need for Warforged to have positive social reactions. They were designed as shock troops to help suppliment the dwindiling humanoid warrior population.
How can a group of people be so smart and yet so stupid? You have a class of soldier that doesn't eat, sleep, or breathe. They are intelligent enough to perform complicated tasks, yet disciplined enough not to get bored. You can make the things in just about any shape you want.

The purpose of shock troops, meanwhile, is to rapidly punch through enemy defenses. You suffer heavy casualties in the hope of getting past the enemy defensive line. A warforged's strength is an asset in this situation, certainly, but all its other advantages go to waste.

Here's an idea: Treat each warforged as a one-man sapper crew. Instruct him to dig and to pack the dirt in behind him, like a mole. Have him pop out behind the enemy fortifications.

If your goal is to sow discord in the enemy city, have him conduct a sabotage operation at night. The warforged will be well-equipped to evade a search party: the fact that he needs neither food nor air greatly increases his potential hiding places, and he can always dig back down into the ground and either return home or simply wait for the next night to strike again.

If your goal is to go ahead and capture the enemy defensive emplacement, send a whole bunch of warforged underground at a time, with orders to all pop up at a certain time. At the designated time, you have a bunch of warforged behind enemy lines without losing any of them in an infantry charge.

Here's another idea: Build warforged to look like whoever is physically carrying supplies to your opponent. Put a big ol' bomb in their torso. If they successfully sneak in, great! They can do whatever mission you assigned to them. If they're detected at a gate check or whatever, they can set off the bomb, killing the inspection team, delaying the processing of supplies, hurting morale, and forcing your opponent to dedicate more manpower to inspecting supplies.

Here's another idea: Build a warforged that IS a bomb. Strap it to the underside of an enemy supply cart with orders to blow up the next time it passes under a barbican.

Here's another idea: Build warforged with an internally-stored disguise kit. Send them into the city by the sappers method. Order them to mingle with and spy on the local populace.

Here's another idea: As above, get a disguised warforged into the city, but also put a bomb in them and give them a list of priorities of people/things to blow up (for example, "If you can get close enough to the enemy king, blow him up. Otherwise blow up anyone in a high-ranking military uniform.").

Here's another idea: Plant a bunch of warforged in the ground. Retreat. Attack when your opponent is on top of the warforged, while signaling the buried warforged to pop out of the ground (you have magic; I'm sure you can figure out a way to send buried warforged a signal).

Of course, all of the above ideas can be countered, to some extent or other, by good enough Divination magic. But that's okay! Think how many shock troops you'll save by forcing your opponent's spell-casters to waste magic on constant divination! It's not like you need to send more than a few warforged per day to make your opponent paranoid.

After the Siege
Of course, by using warforged intelligently in a land where all the other factions (apparently) have the military cunnining of tofu, you would win whatever war you were waging in about a week. Now what? You have to occupy the conquered territory, but you have a troop shortage!

Anthropomorphic robots to the rescue! Occupy enemy territory with a mix of warforged and fleshy troops. Note that this is not a simple "Kill every foreigner" assignment; the warforged HAVE to be able to interact with fleshies; it's their job.

But I rant and ramble. To make a long story short, I appreciate that the lore has suggested that warforged were intended exclusively as shock troops (again, thanks for looking that up). Frankly, I vote we abandon the lore, because the idea that warforged should be used as shock troops is so stupid that it hurts.

donfilibuster
03-21-2011, 06:53 PM
/not signed to arcane healing

arcanes are not meant to heal, zero control over life magic, at least positive energy.
they are good with crafting constructs tho, hence the repair.
(self)healing by negative energy is bordering the unnaceptable but was implemented reasonably.
also, the raise option for arcanes is the clone spell, that's within their expertise.

Drakos
03-21-2011, 07:08 PM
Barbarian WFs tend to be larger and bulkier, often incorporating blades and sharply angled plates in their bodies.
Caster WFs look shorter and sleeker, sometimes wearing actual clothes or loose fitting hauberks.
I recall seeing a WF in swashbuckler clothes, and I distinctly recall a WF rogue wearing form fitting pants.
Their is a picture of a WF in cloths the make it look somewhat Swashbukler type. It was representing a warforged who took a feat to get rid of the base Composite Plating. Much like the Adamantine, Mithril, and Ironwood body feats.

We are also taking real world assumptions on how crafting lines and mass production would be like in Eberron.
I am also questioning the real value of WFs as "shock" troops - if anything, they seem more suited, stat-wise, to prolonged siege warfare, since they never tire and need little in the way of supplies and relief.
We know that they used creation forges to create the warforges, and they had standard templates for use in the process. Yes there is potential minor variances in the templates.

I would tend to agree with Gorbadoc about some lack of imagination here: while canon does represent the starting point, it should not be the end of it.
As long as a variation stays consistent with the spirit of the whole canon, I am not one to complain.
Sorce please I was kind enough to quote my cannon source that clearly stated they were all built sith the large muscular look. I see different art of course, but that is attributable to the artistic license as the various artists did not collaborate and art is choosen based on look not how well it supports the material.

Not every WF is crafted to the same specifications - or at least I don't really see a compelling reason to say so, unless we want to limit ourselves in our role playing opportunities.
Much the way not every suit of armour was crafted to fit the very same knight.
That differes from the passage I quoted above from the Campaign Guid for Eberron.

Maybe WF were crafted in more or less large bulks - so WF in the same group might share some kinship with its brethren.
But, really, it sounds too much sci-fi.
They are supposed to be closer to sentient golems than free-willed androids.
Nothing "SciFi" about it, the bodies were mass produced and then granted life via the creation forge. It would be the most expedient way to produce them with the resources avaliable.

And canon sure tells us, as sentient beings, they sometimes choose to adopt a different outer shell to match their inner persona.
Again source please?

If I had an artificial body, I would surely look into customising it to suit my feeling and the general personality I want to project.
A peaceful, mellow minded WF, shunning violence after so much bloodshed, might actually try to have its body modified so as to look ANYTHING but a construct crafted to wage war.
You might very well choose to look different of coure you are approaching this from the viewpoint of having been born human, I seriously think a WF would just take the matter of their shell as being a fact of life and move on. Yjey wouldn't have the bias of being an humanoid to corrupt their self view.

Drakos
03-21-2011, 07:21 PM
But I rant and ramble. To make a long story short, I appreciate that the lore has suggested that warforged were intended exclusively as shock troops (again, thanks for looking that up). Frankly, I vote we abandon the lore, because the idea that warforged should be used as shock troops is so stupid that it hurts.
I find it convienient that proponents of this idea ask for someone to show them where the idea goes against the lore, and whaen someone does, they then say we should abandon it because it is silly. Then why ask for proof?

I appreciate that we have different opinions, and I'm ok with that. I do not believe it is a good idea, and if they were going to do any "customization" of WF looks I would prefer it to support the lore and have attached components (Sword Arm, Armbow, etc...) rather than something not supported, and not needed as the race in question does not concern itself with maters of gender.

As for the OP suggestion to give fleshie sorcerors a self heal spell, I cannot support this. In PnP there are some methods for arcane casters to have some self healing but most are dependent on the Vancian spell system and would be OP in a SP system.

TheHolyDarkness
03-21-2011, 07:23 PM
::simply skips everything and posts response to OP::

Spend development time on an iniative like this? Shirly you jest. :D

Especially considering that there are plenty of women with WF characters. There's no profit incentive versus cost of development. Oh, but Shirly of course you know this already. That's what makes you high brow sense of humor so delightful. ;)

Very good sir madam. Very funny. +1 to your sense of humor. :)

~TheHolyDarkness Out~

Entelech
03-21-2011, 07:37 PM
Seliana,

I'd actually agree with adding an option for a female body-style warforged. Yes, the official PnP canon says that all warforged are basically genderless, but the WotC artists have definitely gone off-model on that one.

Besides, engineers being what they are, I'm sure some lonely Cannith techie would have created a set of "missile racks" for his aesthetically distinctive Warforged bodyguard.

I do not attribute the lack of warforged missile racks to sexism, however. Especially since warforged are neither male NOR female. I attribute it to laziness.

Specifically, the fact that developing multiple 3d models for a race takes effort, and the warforged were one size fits all.

If you want to play a non-Warforged arcane with self healing, you have the same options we menfolk do:

(1) UMD
(2) Bard
(3) Multiclass
(4) Dilettante.
(5) Potions.

If that's not good enough, then name your 'female' Warforged "Barbie" and you will have my full sympathy as soon as all the 'male' Warforged are no longer called "Ken".

I'm holding out for at least 12 inches before I play a male Toaster.

Alabore
03-21-2011, 09:11 PM
I seriously think a WF would just take the matter of their shell as being a fact of life and move on.


Source?

;)

Chidane
03-21-2011, 09:22 PM
uhhhhhh No. I'm all for feminism, but their warforged. They're just robots. I mean, What's the point in giving a soldier a female body if they can't reproduce, it's unnecessary work for the devs and bad logic in game.

Gorbadoc
03-21-2011, 09:54 PM
I find it convienient that proponents of this idea ask for someone to show them where the idea goes against the lore, and whaen someone does, they then say we should abandon it because it is silly. Then why ask for proof?
Curiosity, mostly. I wanted to know whether there was any merit to the "It's not canon" argument. Now everyone reading this thread knows; there is.

I agree with your words, though I suspect you meant them differently: I think it's definitely convenient that I can present a series of arguments, such that each argument, if correct, would make the previous argument irrelevant. It lets us get through all the possible arguments quickly, sort the plausible arguments from the worthless arguments, and so be comprehensive.

Frankly, I'm a bit suspicious of my claim that we should discard the canon for being silly. This is D&D we're talking about. If it were "realistic", most international commerce would be done through a network of Teleportation Circles (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Teleportation_Circle) with Permanency (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Permanency); conventional shipping would be local only, and maritime technology would reflect these lighter needs.

Moving along with the "No, wait, my previous argument doesn't matter" approach: We might still consider modifying the canon on the grounds that the canon is annoying, and it's possible to implement something way more fun.


I appreciate that we have different opinions, and I'm ok with that. I do not believe it is a good idea, and if they were going to do any "customization" of WF looks I would prefer it to support the lore and have attached components (Sword Arm, Armbow, etc...) rather than something not supported, and not needed as the race in question does not concern itself with maters of gender.
I'm sure built-in weapons would be cool. I just can't get the image of Trap Jaw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO8YBcIerik) out of my head. :-P

SardaofChaos
03-21-2011, 10:35 PM
There are no female Wareforged. There are no male Warforged, at leas in the cannon Eberron setting.
...
Does that work, it is straight from the cannon rules book.

Let's use the correct word shall we? "Canon"

Ttip
03-22-2011, 04:00 AM
The scout model has different racial bonuses from the normal one. It's basically a halfling, but it has been a part of the 3.5 Eberron game for quite a while.

Warforged Scouts as Characters

Warforged scouts often become rangers or rogues, making use of their inherent stealth for reconnaissance and guerilla warfare. Others take more martial paths as fighters or barbarians, while still others become spellcasters.
Warforged scouts possess the following racial traits.
— +2 Dexterity, –2 Strength, –2 Wisdom, –2 Charisma.
—Small size. +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, –4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 3/4 those of Medium characters.
—A warforged scout’s base land speed is 20 feet.
—Special Qualities (see above): Composite plating, light fortification, living construct traits.
—Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus Languages: None.
—Favored Class: Rogue.

Thanks Illi, I last played PnP in the early 90's and then only basic and AD&D...

Seliana
03-22-2011, 04:36 AM
This is the suggestion section isn't it? As far as I know you are allowed to post ANY suggestion however silly or ludicrous it may seem to others. While I can agree with some of the thoughts expressed (though a bit too harshly), did it ever occur to you that maybe Seliana isn't as knowledgable as you might be in Eberron history? Perhaps she actually realized midway through posting that what she was asking was probably not feasible and thus tapered her request back a bit (started requesting Arcane Healing spell for women and ended asking for different appearance in warforged characters).

It seems to me that people are picking apart the words rather than the general idea expressed. If I understood her problem correctly: she likes to play female characters, she likes to play sorcs, and she is having a hard time keeping her health at the level that warforged sorcs do (through reconstruct etc). She then posited possible solutions to HER problem, some radical, some not so radical.

Since this is the forum for suggestions and ideas, if you do not like her idea and feel it necessary to respond, perhaps you should explain why you think it is wrong in a rational manner. e.g.: the history of warforged makes it so, sorcs are powerful in other ways and thats why they don't have arcane healing for non-wf, have you tried a hireling, etc.

I'm not sure that phrasing your objections to the original suggestion in an abusive or angry manner is going to get your point across any more acutely (if at all).

Despite popular belief, some people do play this game as it was originally intended: a fantasy role playing game. As such they may want to make their character as closely as they can to their envisioned character. I personally suspect that giving sorcs an arcane healing spell for use on non-wf would severely unbalance the game, but she is certainly entitled to her suggestion. She is certainly not alone in her desire to make her character appear in a certain manner as evidenced by the recent armor kits and the changes made to docent appearances in the past. Personally I don't place much thought on what my character looks like after character creation, but that does not entitle me to rebuke all who do.

I am reluctant to post much on the forums as they seem to have become less of a community and more of an area dominated by harshness. I suspect I am not alone in that belief. Do you really want to discourage people from expressing their ideas? What if someone has an innovative idea that you (or all of us) DO agree with but is afraid to express it? We all lose then.

^ This.

All I was really looking for was female Warforged options for those of us that want it.

The other suggestions were ONLY there as an alternative (however crazy you think they are) for dev's that didn't want to spend the art and development resources departments to introduce an entire new set of character models and animations for a such small percentage of the community. The suggestion wasn't meant to break the game or cause mass hysteria and panic. Very few people responded in a rational manner to this thread and I found some pretty flimsy excuses for hating the concept of Warforged females.

I cant even imagine why your all so concerned with lore for a game that constantly breaks the PnP rulebooks anyway. The Dev's have been making up spell and skill functionality as they go, changing how the players abilities work on a fundamental level every 3-4 months.

As far as I can tell The Chronoscope (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Story_Arc:The_Chronoscope) is a raid about time travel. Something that shouldn't even be possible with standard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/timeStop.htm) D&D (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeHop.htm) spells (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeRegression.htm).

Satinavian
03-22-2011, 04:48 AM
There are no female Wareforged. There are no male Warforged, at leas in the cannon Eberron setting. All Warforged are genderless. Some Warforged, however, choose to identify with a particular gender and will even attempt to emulate personality characteristics of their prefered gender.The cannon sais that the warforged bodies are neither male nor female. The DDO models tend to be understood as male, even in this thread. (And no, that is not only due to needs of war - a bigger chin does not make a better warrior)

I would like the standart wf-models to be really androgynous, like it is supposed to be. But as new models include a lot of artist time, it would be a shame to just replace an existing model, so i could support a greater variety to choose from.

Alabore
03-22-2011, 06:55 AM
This thread reminds me of another thread, about appearance customisation - some players were adamantly against it, because they deemed it useless.
Much in the same way, now, some are against WF body customisation, because it allegedly breaks canon.

I must admit I struggle to follow the logic that unless canon specifically allows for something, that particular something is forbidden.
Talk about lacking imagination for the sake of it...

As stated above, DDO is constantly breaking canon - and what's much worse on my book, immersion and credibility - for the sake of balance, playability and sales.
I find some variety welcome - and, as long as new rules/lore fit with the general spirit of the game, I don't see why they can't be implemented.

Would it be a "waste of devs' time" (tm)?
I don't really think that asking for a new feature brings the dev cycle to a sudden halt, as devs push higher priority projects down the list, just to accommodate...
Some minor tweaks won't tax the dev teams as heavily - devs only need know we'd like to see them, and work on them on off-peak times.

Regarding WFs - maybe most of them were crafted to similar specifications, but I still see examples of potential variations in lore - if the wiki is to be trusted, some forges are still active, and lore specifically mentions new WFs could boast a sufficiently different appearance to justify some variation in body models:

-> http://eberron.wikia.com/wiki/Creation_Forges

...

Also, gee, Gorbadoc, cunning yet scary use of WF soldiers.
Gave me the shivers.

Another aside: while I see the point behind a bulky body for psychological warfare reasons, stat-wise WFs are presented as being no stronger than the average flesh-made soldier.
And becoming TOO bulky makes you a worse, clumsier soldier.

Further aside, are we really arguing about a fictional race in a video-game...?

dunklezhan
03-22-2011, 07:08 AM
Further aside, are we really arguing about a fictional race in a video-game...?

Personally, no, I'm not. I'm arguing only that actual OP request - that of creating feminine bodies because the current model somehow prevents female players from playing a self-healing WF sorceror - is not a valid one.

I do however concede that having a female WF form, or the ability to customise as such, is not a bad idea in and of itself. I'd support dev time on that, because generally I'm a fan of cosmetic choices and character customisation.

Just not that any females are being preventedfrom playing a WF sorceror currently by the current models in game.

Talias006
03-22-2011, 07:25 AM
I'm sure they could also come up with a perfectly good "lore" reason why not all WF have the same build. It would be nice to have some variety. I don't think anyone is asking for super feminine looking WF, but some distinction between the two would be nice.

This has most likely already been covered, but I skimmed most of the thread. The few differences in Warforged builds are primarily because of the task they fulfilled. The scouts were smaller and easier to stealthily drift across enemy lines. Some of the heavier models were for ground troop support, as in Fighters, etc. Some were even I would imagine put into roles of arcane support, although I have yet to hear about an erudite facsimile of a Warforged to suggest there was a separate model for this function.

While I wouldn't be against a more modest looking female model for better customization of the Warforged, I would rather development time be better spent with different racial models, such as Gnomes, Shifters, Kalashtar and possibly Eladrin. And most definitely have Druids and then rounding out the missing PrE's as well.

I could not support a non-Warforged based arcane healing spell, (mostly) just on the premise that you choose to not roll a Warforged because of the aesthetic looks are not appealing to you. Myself, I wouldn't mind if I could get my Warforged Wizard to look more, well, wizardly, and although it bugs me, it's not the end of the world or preventing me from playing him.

So, conditionally /signed on the body types. Unconditionally /not signed on the arcane healing from a non-Warforged.

FrancisP.Fancypants
03-22-2011, 07:52 AM
Rrrrrrrr..

I'm on board with a more feminine WF.
I'm also on board with a larger variety of figures for all the races.

I think the non-canon argument is moot, and I think the "they're robots so who cares/why waste a dev's time" argument is just as lame.

We're talking about aesthetics. How many people wrote angry posts about the halfling monk noises? Or the male half-elf faces? Or armor customizing? It's important to be able to play things that appeal to us, and it's important that the game art, the designs, look good. That's why we're playing this instead of a text MUD.

And frankly, I'd just like a WF that didn't look like a ninja turtle.

Drakos
03-22-2011, 07:55 AM
Source?

;)
I did preceed the statement with the "I sreiously think..." to indicate it was opinion. However the excert I posted earlier from the Eberron Campaign Setting does start that they are "... unconcerned with maters of gender." which supports my assertaion to some extent. (again page 21 ECS)

Drakos
03-22-2011, 07:59 AM
Let's use the correct word shall we? "Canon"
No problem I will endevor to say it correctly in the future. Did you have anything to add to the thread topic perchance?

Drakos
03-22-2011, 08:11 AM
[quote=Seliana;3665100I cant even imagine why your all so concerned with lore for a game that constantly breaks the PnP rulebooks anyway. The Dev's have been making up spell and skill functionality as they go, changing how the players abilities work on a fundamental level every 3-4 months.

As far as I can tell The Chronoscope (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Story_Arc:The_Chronoscope) is a raid about time travel. Something that shouldn't even be possible with standard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/timeStop.htm) D&D (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeHop.htm) spells (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeRegression.htm).[/quote]
Because "lore" is different from "system rules". For the most part I totally agree that the Devs have abandoned the system at almost every turn, but as for the setting (aka; the lore) they have done a fairly decent job of reflecting Eberron.

However, even if the Lore and System rules were lumped together, just because they have a tendency to abandon it doesn't mean it is a good thing nor should it be endorsed by the community. Many people were lured here because of the Setting, many others because it was supposed to be D&D 3.5 based. The farther they get from both of these the more they alienate those players. Those that were not lured here for the Setting or the System have no vested interest in staying true of deviating. So one group cares about staying true, the other has no vested intered either way, I for one am a member of the former group, and I have stuck around since the beginning, but with each deviation I get more and more disenfranchised. I'm not saying I'd quite over female body type for Warforged, but all the little deviations do add up to a bigger problem and contribute to my dissatisfaction.

Drakos
03-22-2011, 08:17 AM
The cannon sais that the warforged bodies are neither male nor female. The DDO models tend to be understood as male, even in this thread. (And no, that is not only due to needs of war - a bigger chin does not make a better warrior)
Better warrior perhaps not, but more intimidating/fearsom yes.


I would like the standart wf-models to be really androgynous, like it is supposed to be. But as new models include a lot of artist time, it would be a shame to just replace an existing model, so i could support a greater variety to choose from.
I would be more in favor of replacing the existing models with more androgynous models than adding female models.

Alabore
03-22-2011, 09:13 AM
I'm arguing only that actual OP request - that of creating feminine bodies because the current model somehow prevents female players from playing a self-healing WF sorceror - is not a valid one.


Maybe *prevent* is a strong word, and asking for radical changes to a game system on the grounds of aesthetics alone might be unwarranted.
BUT... I do see how some players might be wary of using some classes/races, from appearance alone.

I have a WF rog/wiz; he would be a joy to play, weren't it for his looks: he is clumsy, ungainly, taking way too much screen space for my tastes.
Comparatively speaking, playing with my elven rog/rng or my halfling rog/brd feels easier and smoother.

Had I had to judge from looks alone, I would have never bought any of the store-only options: helves, horcs, wf, monks...
Gods, don't get me started on helves...

Again, canon represents the state of a gaming world before players start playing it.
Once you populate it, variations and situations not covered by official books are bound to arise.
Lore sources I could track down never explicitly forbid WF appearance customisation, to a greater or lesser extent.
Actually, they would point out the opposite.
Maybe authors never really thought they had to forbid RPers to run their games however they saw fit.
Lore is a partially painted canvas, it's meant to provide the backdrop, not be a straight-jacket.
The game gets boring already as it is...

...

To be honest, I could see a rationale to preventing extreme model customisation on the grounds of popularity - the Drizzt clause, if you will.
But given the option, I'd happily give my WF rog/wiz a shorter, slimmer body.

Adarro
03-23-2011, 02:43 AM
The cannon sais that the warforged bodies are neither male nor female. The DDO models tend to be understood as male, even in this thread. (And no, that is not only due to needs of war - a bigger chin does not make a better warrior)

Truly you are mistaken... Fear the Chin-killa!
http://images.usatoday.com/money/_photos/2001-06-07-battlebot.jpg (http://www.usatoday.com/money/covers/2001-06-08-bcovfri.htm)

I think Parvo said it best... The reason or the pitch may have some differences in perception, but the actual suggestion doesn't seem all that outrageous.

Personally, I'm all for modification kits. Lore-wise, a modification kit is, by definition, an after-market or other post-design / post-production function. So being mass produced only determines what you start off with, not what you end up with. Originally I wasn't all that hyped about armor kits, hair dye or shield overlays, but I didn't realize how much I missed the LOTRO 'dressing room' features until these options hit DDO.

Sentient wise, I respect that as a race, they have no concept of gender from the lore books. If Warforged stayed 'In the land of Warforged', I could see that there would be no change in this. However, as sentient and socially interacting creatures, I could see such sentient and socially interacting creatures begin to adopt local customs and ways of thinking. Spend enough time in America, the Middle East or Khyber, you're going to start to dress like them (as WF have done) and possibly even start to think like them or envelope their values. There will be WF that choose to remain as they are, some that remain as they are because they felt no compelling reason to change it, and that third group, that may want to try something new, just... because....

A WF might decide to look 'more feminine' for the same reason it decided to become an adventurer, or a farmer or maybe it was just optimizing its physique to its new environment. It's sentient and no more beholden to pre-conceived notions than it is required to do the bidding of its creators.