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tkrenaud
03-14-2011, 11:36 AM
It appears that those who play the game a lot (and thus probably have most of the gear they need) got even more wealthy as a result of the Dowsing Rods epidemic. So why not reduce the plat of those who so obviously got millions of plat selling the rods? I wouldn't be averse to a complete wipeout of any plat acquired by selling dowsing rods. I realize this is not realistic but perhaps the mere thought of it as a possibility will discourage future conduct of this sort.

Those who play less spent the time in the event getting stuff to make a piece of gear (or two). While those who had oodles of time used the time to take advantage of an obvious oversight. As a result now those who actually use the auction house to buy an item they need (that they don't have the time to spend farming said item) can't afford the item because those who took advantage of the oversight are now willing to spend more plat on item(s) (which incidentally they probably already have on numerous alts).

Fixing the oversight by eliminating future selling is hardly going to remedy those who now suffer from the inflated prices caused by the oversight. I am sure you can come up with a more creative solution... you know who took advantage either even the playing field by taking away from them or conversely doing something for those who didn't/couldn't take advantage.

I have been playing since the game went live and will continue but I am disappointed by your solution, generally you have been much better about fixing such mistakes...

P.S. In the spirit of offering realistic solutions... how about rewarding those who didn't dump their gems etc into dowsing rods by creating a new Broker- the broker could give out some type of clickie or item to those who still have stuff leftover from the event. Supposedly the event is coming back, so that would only be feasible if the event did not come back or if it could be implemented before the event did return...




UPDATE:
Reading all the responses to my original post has got me thinking... I have always tried to keep an open mind - my philosophy on the majority of "life's dilemmas" has been I am x years old, if the best thinkers throughout history haven't found the answer, I would be arrogant to think in my short life I have. That being said, I can see everyone's point. I agree with some and disagree with some. One thing I apparently neglected to mention is that the "oversight" (selling of dowsing rods for massive amounts of plat in an extremely short amount of time) has NOT in any way impacted my playstyle or the game I play in general. I have been playing since the games release and though I do not have any plat capped characters (more because I never sell anything and would prefer to give to someone who needs it), I have logged enough hours to get any gear that I deem necessary for any of my 32 characters. I NEVER buy anything off the AH. I NEVER sell anything in the AH.

So why this thread? I was struck by the fact that so many people were openly talking about this oversight. SO many people were talking in general chat about how plat is worthless, how they got rich during the event, or how the AH prices were higher (or even double). It got me thinking. Remember when you acquired your first frost or fire weapon? Some of us even remember when +5 full plate was an aspiration not merely vendor fodder. I have been rereading some of my older TSR novels and it struck me how in the books when a wizard cast a fireball it was looked upon with awe by all around. For those of us who played (or play) pen and paper we saw this firsthand from our DM and the various modules we ran. It seems that the game has moved very much away from that. Now granted it is an online game and they do need to make the game interesting to keep up the revenue... But somewhere along the line I stopped meeting people who enjoyed the spirit of ddo. The groups I run with both high and low are oftentimes intent on getting to the end of the quest or even running through the quest for the xp then either moving on to a quest with more xp or repeating the quest ad nauseum for the xp. Too many times I see people excluded from a group because he/she has a character that doesn't conform with an expected build-type. Recently someone posted that he/she would boot someone if they used a paralyzer in Shavarath instead of a Vorpal.

Perhaps I am alone in my view. I see the casual player base and the hardcore players getting further and further apart. The event just seemed to exacerbate that. The gap between those who enjoy working for what they have and those who expect every character to have a certain set of skills or items is widening. How many people actually do the optional parts of quests? How many players actually break the crates hoping for a nice potion or returning thrower to drop? I understand we all play this game for different reasons, but so far ddo has resisted the plethora of gold farmers, account hackers, capped character sellers, etc. that plague other games. I hope the game can uphold the spirit of D&D as envisioned by Gygax et al.


LAST POST: well human nature is to go in with a view and retract what you need to bolster your point and this thread has proven that once again... I had hoped people would step back and view the entire game and its future but instead people seem to only care about how it impacts them.

voodoogroves
03-14-2011, 11:43 AM
... and give them all the materials used right?

Gems -> dubloons -> sellable items -> plat


So give them all gems, then they can craft a bunch of non-sellable stuff to re-zero things. If not, all you've done is penalized the folks who made some bank and uplifted the plat values of those who didn't. You didn't equalize, you've see-sawed.

skwatson
03-14-2011, 11:47 AM
While I dislike the effects on the in-game economy created by the wand selling debacle...

I cannot envision a feasible way to 'recall' all of that plat for multiple reasons. The easiest one is to envision a character that made 700K plat, had 300K plat and used the combined sum to buy a heavily inflation +2 con tome, ate the tome, and now has 100K plat from subsequent questing....

How would we expect Turbine to "fairly" redistribute the effects of having to undo this type of event????

jwdaniels
03-14-2011, 11:49 AM
It appears that those who plat the game a lot (and thus probably have most of the gear they need) got even more wealthy as a result of the Dowsing Rods epidemic. So why not reduce the plat of those who so obviously got millions of plat selling the rods? I wouldn't be averse to a complete wipeout of any plat acquired by selling dowsing rods.

Those who play less spent the time in the event getting stuff to make a piece of gear (or two). While those who had oodles of time used the time to take advantage of an obvious oversight. As a result now those who actually use the auction house to buy an item they need (that they don't have the time to spend farming said item) can't afford the item because those who took advantage of the oversight are now willing to spend more plat on item(s) (which incidentally they probably already have on numerous alts).

Fixing the oversight by eliminating future selling is hardly going to remedy those of us who now suffer from the inflated prices caused by the oversight. I am sure you can come up with a more creative solution... you know who took advantage either even the playing field by taking away from them or conversely doing something for those of us who didn't/couldn't take advantage.

I have been playing since the game went live and will continue but I am disappointed by your solution, generally you have been much better about fixing such mistakes...

The two largest flaws with your argument are that you assume there is rampant AH inflation going on, and from what I can see this is not the case, and you also assume that people who play a lot and farmed a lot of plat actually need it for anything.

If you have all the plat you need, doubling it doesn't really do anything for you. Also, just because you have 1,000,000 plat doesn't mean you're going to spend it on a large devil scale for no reason. Finally, every AH transaction takes a 30% cut of the plat out of the economy. All it takes is a handful of transactions (and there may have been an initial spike in prices) to correct the problem.

Khanyth
03-14-2011, 11:50 AM
No.

This is a "problem" that will "fix" itself in due time. No reason to take dev time away from more pressing legit problems that the game has

Shaamis
03-14-2011, 11:53 AM
No, what Turbine has done is simply teach those that if you are going to take advantage of a miscalculation in game, dont let grass grow under your feet. Don't expect them to continue to let it slide.

There are only two kinds of people in this world......the quick and the dead.

Better be Quick!

P.S. I was not able to take advantage of it, because even though I heard about it, was still skeptical, and felt as if the banhammer was going to fall.

I guess that technology that was responsible for the mabar banning incident hasnt been perfected enough, OR since it was never really labeled as an ex-ploit ;) they felt it couldnt be a bannable defense.

Long Story: gotta be quick to take the short-cuts in DDO.

I have thousands of doubloons to spend so I'll see what I can do with them if it comes around again.

Chai
03-14-2011, 11:54 AM
The measure already in place - making dowsing rods worthless - is already the best thing they can do. Most people who capped their plat and then filled their inventory with more rods are finding out they now have inventories full of worthless rods. But hey, they can open up the next 1500 locked chests or so.....

Its now a matter of how quickly the plat sinks in place can take the previous rod farmed money out of the economy.

KillEveryone
03-14-2011, 11:56 AM
Just because someone spent less time in the event doesn't mean they actually worked for gear.

Some may have just gotten the dagger with lesser maximise and didn't like the looks of other stuff...mostly because of incorrect descriptions...so they decided to make some plat for their haste/rage pots habit while only spending maybe 8 hours on the last night of the event.

Just deal with the extra plat.

/not signed.

Qezuzu
03-14-2011, 11:57 AM
While I dislike the effects on the in-game economy created by the wand selling debacle...

I cannot envision a feasible way to 'recall' all of that plat for multiple reasons. The easiest one is to envision a character that made 700K plat, had 300K plat and used the combined sum to buy a heavily inflation +2 con tome, ate the tome, and now has 100K plat from subsequent questing....

How would we expect Turbine to "fairly" redistribute the effects of having to undo this type of event????

Indeed. I personally made around 1.1m from the event, but now that (and 900k of legit cash) has gone to someone who posted an epic scroll (gem of many factes) on the AH. The Gem is now crafted.

Don't bork players up by trying to retrace and recall all the plat. We had an inflation of plat, and an inflation of prices. The inflation of plat has been stopped, but we still have the inflation of prices. The AH tax is taking more plat out of the game than usual because of this.

Just let the system work itself back together. Turbine learned from this mistake (hopefully). Don't suggest they waste time, labor and money to "fix" it when said time, labor and money can be put elsewhere. Like U8: patch 26.

Darlor
03-14-2011, 12:00 PM
On my server the AH price of major ingredients (e.g. large devil scales) roughly doubled towards the end of the event - by now they're almost back to normal. Price of epic scrolls seem not to have changed, though that might be because they're normally traded for other scrolls/ingredients, rather than platinum.

Many of the more active players already have multiple platinum-capped toons. I really just don't see how this incident results in anything more than a temporary inflation of currency.

lugoman
03-14-2011, 12:01 PM
Almost nothing makes an rpg more boring to play than having a ton of money. If you can easily buy anything you want you have nothing to work for anymore.

ladyzerlynda14
03-14-2011, 12:01 PM
The measure already in place - making dowsing rods worthless - is already the best thing they can do. Most people who capped their plat and then filled their inventory with more rods are finding out they now have inventories full of worthless rods. But hey, they can open up the next 1500 locked chests or so.....

Its now a matter of how quickly the plat sinks in place can take the previous rod farmed money out of the economy.

Is this really any different then people who sold the new spell scrolls for a mill when they first came out. It is all about supply and demand. I remember the day I could make a good living of sell deadly feaverblanches that dried up when the change of many of the more pricey mushroom (purple ones) with pink ones in the most quests. Delera's for example. This raised the prices of drowshoods but killed the deadly market.

KongColeus
03-14-2011, 12:03 PM
this would be like the Mayban Event.

You would be penalizing the players that were innocent because maybe they bought more than they wanted. SOrt of like how 99% of us did the Mabar event but were unlucky to be in the same group, or play at the same time?, as an exploiter and thereby we were exploiters even though we still have no clue what the whole thing was about.

And you know the players that did abuse the system they are the same ones that abused the Mabar event. The same ones that basically do all the exploits. That is they way those players play.

As far as for me, the players that did it, used the way the game was designed at the time. Good for them. I preferred to run quests to find loot and use the bonus EXP.

Turbine just needs to do a better job of thinking outside the box. It really is not the difficult.

Thrudh
03-14-2011, 12:03 PM
My biggest issue is people saying "Plat is worthless... Max plat is easy to get anyway".

If plat is worthless, please send all of yours to me.

(Hint: They won't do it, because plat is not worthless.)

voodoogroves
03-14-2011, 12:04 PM
The measure already in place - making dowsing rods worthless - is already the best thing they can do. Most people who capped their plat and then filled their inventory with more rods are finding out they now have inventories full of worthless rods. But hey, they can open up the next 1500 locked chests or so.....

Its now a matter of how quickly the plat sinks in place can take the previous rod farmed money out of the economy.
Spot on.

I dare say plenty of those bought things also - which sent the plat to other people. So to unwind we'd have to send back what they got, dock the funds of people who sold things on the AH, figure out some way to rebalance vendor-purchases, etc.

This is what Turbine can do to fix it long-term, and its better than nothing.

chrisgina39
03-14-2011, 12:04 PM
the only way to balance it out is to convert it back to how it was aka let us sell them again so everyone can take advantage of it or to delete everyone's chars and make us all restart neither sound like a good idea to me

so lets just move on

Thrudh
03-14-2011, 12:04 PM
Oh, and large devil scales are still about twice as expensive as before the CC event...

I'm still waiting patiently to see if they ever go back down.

maddmatt70
03-14-2011, 12:07 PM
Just ban everybody that accumulated more then 100k plat for 3 days and give the other people some plat or a way to earn easy plat for 3 days. Even if a third of the game gets banned for 3 days oh well. What they did was wrong and might as well let the other people make some money those three days.

dior10276
03-14-2011, 12:08 PM
I jump for coins and sell kits and made items each and every time the Ice Festival comes along. I have made between 1,000,000 and 2,000,000 plat during and after each event. I have used that money to buy ingredients each and every time.

What should be done there? Are we at fault for using the devices of this game to make a profit in order to buy the things that we wish for in game use? I think not!!

The system's economy will work it self out in due time. Or, maybe we could get Greenspan to come in and offer some advice and constraints to keep the economy growing without overheating like 2008. LOL

Ziindarax
03-14-2011, 12:09 PM
It appears that those who plat the game a lot (and thus probably have most of the gear they need) got even more wealthy as a result of the Dowsing Rods epidemic. So why not reduce the plat of those who so obviously got millions of plat selling the rods? I wouldn't be averse to a complete wipeout of any plat acquired by selling dowsing rods.

Those who play less spent the time in the event getting stuff to make a piece of gear (or two). While those who had oodles of time used the time to take advantage of an obvious oversight. As a result now those who actually use the auction house to buy an item they need (that they don't have the time to spend farming said item) can't afford the item because those who took advantage of the oversight are now willing to spend more plat on item(s) (which incidentally they probably already have on numerous alts).

Fixing the oversight by eliminating future selling is hardly going to remedy those of us who now suffer from the inflated prices caused by the oversight. I am sure you can come up with a more creative solution... you know who took advantage either even the playing field by taking away from them or conversely doing something for those of us who didn't/couldn't take advantage.

I have been playing since the game went live and will continue but I am disappointed by your solution, generally you have been much better about fixing such mistakes...


Uh no, how about leaving people alone?

Turbine can't even keep track of items crafted in this game (Asteroids nuking Greensteel/epic weapons anyone? [note, I haven't personally suffered any such loss, but I know plenty who have]); Lord knows what would happen if they try to wipe the platinum... and possibly end up wiping EVERYTHING off the character including the legitimately obtained loot/rare items.

Seriously, Turbine already implemented a patch to stop further repeats of the selling of Dowsing rods.

A player's personal in-game wealth will NOT have ANY impact on your ability to play the game. Stop trying to lobby for the dev's to ruin the game for everyone else just because YOU don't like the way CC turned out in the first run.


Also, the prices on the Auction House HAVE gone down; no one sells stuff at the prices you're trying to claim, not any more. The Large shroud mats and epic scrolls have always been ridiculously expensive (and that includes the metalline pure good weapons too).

Thrudh
03-14-2011, 12:09 PM
Just let the system work itself back together.

I should point out that I'm against the OP's idea... There's no good way to reduce the plat now... The system will work itself out.


Turbine learned from this mistake (hopefully).

I have zero confidence that the devs learned anything from this mistake. I had no real problem with the original mistake, but the fact that they let this problem continue for two days after the weekend made me lose all respect and confidence in the devs. I hate that they never addressed the issue directly.

I haven't played this game much since then...

lazlow
03-14-2011, 12:11 PM
It appears that those who plat the game a lot (and thus probably have most of the gear they need) got even more wealthy as a result of the Dowsing Rods epidemic. So why not reduce the plat of those who so obviously got millions of plat selling the rods? I wouldn't be averse to a complete wipeout of any plat acquired by selling dowsing rods.

Those who play less spent the time in the event getting stuff to make a piece of gear (or two). While those who had oodles of time used the time to take advantage of an obvious oversight. As a result now those who actually use the auction house to buy an item they need (that they don't have the time to spend farming said item) can't afford the item because those who took advantage of the oversight are now willing to spend more plat on item(s) (which incidentally they probably already have on numerous alts).

Fixing the oversight by eliminating future selling is hardly going to remedy those of us who now suffer from the inflated prices caused by the oversight. I am sure you can come up with a more creative solution... you know who took advantage either even the playing field by taking away from them or conversely doing something for those of us who didn't/couldn't take advantage.

I have been playing since the game went live and will continue but I am disappointed by your solution, generally you have been much better about fixing such mistakes...


Naw, dont think so bub.

IMO plat was near worthless before so no need for some "coin lord tariff" to correct a supposed player plat imbalance issue. And what exactly does one need so desparately from ah to compete in this game anymore?

laz

jwdaniels
03-14-2011, 12:11 PM
Just ban everybody that accumulated more then 100k plat for 3 days and give the other people some plat or a way to earn easy plat for 3 days. Even if a third of the game gets banned for 3 days oh well. What they did was wrong and might as well let the other people make some money those three days.

So taking something you earned legitimately in-game, turning it into something else using a legitimate in-game process, and then selling that something else legitimately in-game is wrong?

Cheesy definitely, but most certainly not wrong. And before you ask, I think I made about 200k plat doing this and that was only because I needed to do something to get rid of the otherwise useless stuff I acquired trying the event. I didn't farm Crystal Cove because I really didn't enjoy it.

Thrudh
03-14-2011, 12:12 PM
I jump for coins and sell kits and made items each and every time the Ice Festival comes along. I have made between 1,000,000 and 2,000,000 plat during and after each event. I have used that money to buy ingredients each and every time.

You did that selling items to other players...

This was different... The devs made a pricing mistake and let anyone make 4 million plat in about 4 hours... New money that flowed into the economy from a vendor, not money transferred from one player to another.

Thrudh
03-14-2011, 12:14 PM
A player's personal in-game wealth will NOT have ANY impact on your ability to play the game.

This is not true... The run-up in prices on the AH have impacted me and many others...

I'm not saying it's doom and gloom and end of the world, but you can't say there is ZERO impact.

Thrudh
03-14-2011, 12:15 PM
IMO plat was near worthless before

Send me all your plat please...

Oh, you won't? I guess it's not worthless...

Jaid314
03-14-2011, 12:17 PM
turbine can barely even check if you had named items in your inventory 10 seconds ago. you seriously think they can track whether or not you had millions of plat? frankly, i'm not even confident they could tell you how much plat you had on your character 5 minutes ago, let alone a few weeks ago.

also, you can make 100k plat per day legitimately pretty easy... that proposed cap is absurdly low.

go run a vale quest, get a decent shroud crafting ingredient, and you're probably 2/3 the way there. go run a shroud, and if you pull a single large stone or scale, you're well beyond. manage to get a devils keepsake and put it up for sale, and there you go again.

there are many ways to make money in this game. many of them will get you even more money now that there's more plat in the economy. most of them will allow you to farm 100k plat in a day easily if you're level 20 (or close to it).

Thrudh
03-14-2011, 12:17 PM
So taking something you earned legitimately in-game, turning it into something else using a legitimate in-game process, and then selling that something else legitimately in-game is wrong?

Cheesy definitely, but most certainly not wrong. And before you ask, I think I made about 200k plat doing this and that was only because I needed to do something to get rid of the otherwise useless stuff I acquired trying the event. I didn't farm Crystal Cove because I really didn't enjoy it.

Many other exploits (Turbine defined) have involved "legitimate in-game processes"... That's a weak argument...

However, Turbine has deemed this one not to be an exploit, so rest easy.

maddmatt70
03-14-2011, 12:18 PM
So taking something you earned legitimately in-game, turning it into something else using a legitimate in-game process, and then selling that something else legitimately in-game is wrong?

Cheesy definitely, but most certainly not wrong. And before you ask, I think I made about 200k plat doing this and that was only because I needed to do something to get rid of the otherwise useless stuff I acquired trying the event. I didn't farm Crystal Cove because I really didn't enjoy it.

It is a violation of the code of conduct which you participated in. If this practice was less widespread there would have been bannings.

maddmatt70
03-14-2011, 12:20 PM
Naw, dont think so bub.

IMO plat was near worthless before so no need for some "coin lord tariff" to correct a supposed player plat imbalance issue. And what exactly does one need so desparately from ah to compete in this game anymore?

laz

Plat is not worthless. It was pointed out to me that buying scrolls, potions, etc. has been trivialized. Levelling up a lowby just got much cheaper in relative terms.

Lorien_the_First_One
03-14-2011, 12:22 PM
It is a violation of the code of conduct which you participated in. If this practice was less widespread there would have been bannings.

Please point me at the exact section of the CoC that was violated.

PopeJual
03-14-2011, 12:22 PM
Those who play less spent the time in the event getting stuff to make a piece of gear (or two). While those who had oodles of time used the time to take advantage of an obvious oversight. As a result now those who actually use the auction house to buy an item they need (that they don't have the time to spend farming said item) can't afford the item because those who took advantage of the oversight are now willing to spend more plat on item(s) (which incidentally they probably already have on numerous alts).

I agree that the Dowsing Rods sales were a problem, but you seem to be saying that it's a problem for people who spend more time playing the game to have more stuff.

People who spend more time playing the game SHOULD have more stuff. That's kind of the point of playing the game for a lot of people.

jwdaniels
03-14-2011, 12:22 PM
It is a violation of the code of conduct which you participated in. If this practice was less widespread there would have been bannings.

It is a violation of the code of conduct to play the game, acquire stuff, and sell it to a vendor?

Thrudh: How can you say you haven't played much lately but still talk about what's going on with the AH and the in-game economy like an expert?

sweez
03-14-2011, 12:24 PM
But hey, they can open up the next 1500 locked chests or so.....


Yes, if they have over nine thousand UMD :rolleyes:

Unreliable
03-14-2011, 12:24 PM
Sarlona's AH Is almost back to "normal" just a few weeks later.

PopeJual
03-14-2011, 12:25 PM
It is a violation of the code of conduct which you participated in. If this practice was less widespread there would have been bannings.

I think that Turbine has previously demonstrated that they're not afraid of mass bannings.

walkingwolfmike
03-14-2011, 12:25 PM
Nope, no sir, I disapprove

sweez
03-14-2011, 12:26 PM
Almost nothing makes an rpg more boring to play than having a ton of money. If you can easily buy anything you want you have nothing to work for anymore.

If DDO is an RPG, I'm a ballerina. Also, if a lot of people have a ton of money, you can't really easily buy anything you want, can you?

maddmatt70
03-14-2011, 12:28 PM
Please point me at the exact section of the CoC that was violated.

Section 17. The bug that dowsing rods and other items from the event could be sold in game has been fixed with this patch.

LazarusPossum
03-14-2011, 12:29 PM
Just because someone spent less time in the event doesn't mean they actually worked for gear.

Some may have just gotten the dagger with lesser maximise and didn't like the looks of other stuff...mostly because of incorrect descriptions...so they decided to make some plat for their haste/rage pots habit while only spending maybe 8 hours on the last night of the event.

Just deal with the extra plat.

/not signed.

Agreed.

Another perspective as well:

Once I had my Admiral's Tricorn, Cutthroat's Smallblade, and Ring of the Buccaneer upgraded, I had what I wanted. Didn't really care about the Leathers.

I was in a couple of great and cooperative groups during the event, and when some group members weren't quite done with their gear, we *finished* members really didn't want to break up a good thing. So...we just kept playing.

Having a way to bleed off *stolen* gems that wouldn't stack in my gem bag, and loads of copper/other dubloons that took up space in my inventory really helped a lot.
I still have loads of sun flasks from 2008 taking up bank space, but I really do like them. I didn't want the same issue of clogging my bank space with several extra slots of Elemental Gems, though.

Chai
03-14-2011, 12:31 PM
Is this really any different then people who sold the new spell scrolls for a mill when they first came out. It is all about supply and demand. I remember the day I could make a good living of sell deadly feaverblanches that dried up when the change of many of the more pricey mushroom (purple ones) with pink ones in the most quests. Delera's for example. This raised the prices of drowshoods but killed the deadly market.

Yeah I hear you, but how much of a riot do you expect Turbine to start? They corrected the issue that people can exploit, and now its a matter of time for the money to get filtered out using the current plat sinks. I am not going to stand here and tell you that it what happened doesnt suck for the economy, but it could be worse - they could just let it slide for a long time, and now the people who capped plat -AND- loaded their inventory with rods can cash the rods in for more plat.

Would we then expect Turbine to edit items bought with laundered money to be edited from peoples accounts? How about shroud weapons where people bought the ingredients off the AH while laundering their rod money? How far does the rabbit hole go? How big of a paper trail and sting operation do you want the devs to partake in?

Me? They already took the right action by eliminating the ability to exploit and sell any left over rods in peoples inventories they may have loaded up on. What would we rather have happen? Would you rather see the devs load up their schedules editing peoples accounts of all moneys, items, etc gained through exploitation, or would you rather they put a patch in place, and then concentrate on what the entire community wants - more content, bug fixes, epic reboot, etc?

I would rather see them focus on the entire game.

voodoogroves
03-14-2011, 12:32 PM
Section 17. The bug that dowsing rods and other items from the event could be sold in game has been fixed with this patch.

Not all changes introduced in release notes are "bug fixes". You're making quite a leap in logic there to state that a change must be to a bug and then would be a retroactive COC issue ...

Thrudh
03-14-2011, 12:33 PM
Thrudh: How can you say you haven't played much lately but still talk about what's going on with the AH and the in-game economy like an expert?

Because I didn't say I stopped playing...

I've been logging in every 2-3 days to run a Shroud (I still need large scales and completions for my next TR)

Each time I'm in Meridia waiting for Shroud to fill, I check out the AH...

Prices are still higher than they were...

Again, I agree they will probably go back to normal in a month or two...

Look, you know it would break the game economy (plat really WOULD be useless) if that mechanic existed 24/7 all year-around, right?

It was obvious to most people (who are not internally conflicted by rationalizing away their gains) that the devs did not intend to let people max out plat in 4 hours. We know now we were right about that. The devs did NOT intend for people to get plat that fast (otherwise why are they removing it?).

It was a mistake on their part. You rolled the dice and got a 20... No ban this time.

Ziindarax
03-14-2011, 12:33 PM
This is not true... The run-up in prices on the AH have impacted me and many others...

I'm not saying it's doom and gloom and end of the world, but you can't say there is ZERO impact.

I fail to see how the "run up" prices would have affected you. They certainly did not have any impact on me, and I didn't even hit the platinum cap. :/

maddmatt70
03-14-2011, 12:33 PM
Yeah I hear you, but how much of a riot do you expect Turbine to start? They corrected the issue that people can exploit, and now its a matter of time for the money to get filtered out using the current plat sinks. I am not going to stand here and tell you that it what happened doesnt suck for the economy, but it could be worse - they could just let it slide for a long time, and now the people who capped plat -AND- loaded their inventory with rods can cash the rods in for more plat.

Would we then expect Turbine to edit items bought with laundered money to be edited from peoples accounts? How about shroud weapons where people bought the ingredients off the AH while laundering their rod money? How far does the rabbit hole go? How big of a paper trail and sting operation do you want the devs to partake in?

Me? They already took the right action by eliminating the ability to exploit and sell any left over rods in peoples inventories they may have loaded up on. What would we rather have happen? Would you rather see the devs load up their schedult editing peoples accounts of all moneys, items, etc gained through exploitation, or would you rather they put a patch in place, and then concentrate on what the entire community wants - more content, bug fixes, epic reboot, etc?

I would rather see them focus on the entire game.

Turbine is human they will make more mistakes it is inevitable so the policy they should have when those mistakes happen and people take advantage of them is to look the other way. I do not think so.

jwdaniels
03-14-2011, 12:34 PM
Section 17. The bug that dowsing rods and other items from the event could be sold in game has been fixed with this patch.

Just because it was stupid doesn't make it a bug.

Zaal
03-14-2011, 12:35 PM
anyone who nabbed a stellar 3.75 interest rate on your mortgage recently should also be banned... taking advantage of the financing system like that... geez, you haxor.

jwdaniels
03-14-2011, 12:38 PM
Because I didn't say I stopped playing...

I've been logging in every 2-3 days to run a Shroud (I still need large scales and completions for my next TR)

Each time I'm in Meridia waiting for Shroud to fill, I check out the AH...

Prices are still higher than they were...

Again, I agree they will probably go back to normal in a month or two...

Look, you know it would break the game economy (plat really WOULD be useless) if that mechanic existed 24/7 all year-around, right?

It was obvious to most people (who are not internally conflicted by rationalizing away their gains) that the devs did not intend to let people max out plat in 4 hours. We know now we were right about that. The devs did NOT intend for people to get plat that fast (otherwise why are they removing it?).

It was a mistake on their part. You rolled the dice and got a 20... No ban this time.

You assume a lot. I am not internally conflicted, nor do I feel like I have to rationalize away my gains. Nor did I max out my plat.

It was pretty obvious that it wasn't intended, because it was clearly stupid. Do you think that they really intended people to farm the shroud for ingredients and not finish the raid? I doubt that was intended to work that way either. Do you think the devs intended for most barbarians to run around in pijamas? Probably not...

Not everything in game is working as intended, but that doesn't make it a bug or an exploit.

Thrudh
03-14-2011, 12:38 PM
I fail to see how the "run up" prices would have affected you. They certainly did not have any impact on me, and I didn't even hit the platinum cap. :/

Really? You fail to see? You have a terrible imagination.

I still need large devil scales. I cannot afford them now. Instead of TRing tomorrow and having fun with a new character class (one that is still fairly new to me), I now have to run Shroud 10+ more times instead.

My time is limited... The run-up in prices will mean a month delay for me to start playing my new character...

Sure, I don't HAVE to have that GS item made before I TR... I don't NEED large devil scales...

But you said there was NO impact on ANYONE. There was an impact on me, and anyone else who buys stuff from the AH.

Quarterling
03-14-2011, 12:40 PM
Just ban everybody that accumulated more then 100k plat for 3 days and give the other people some plat or a way to earn easy plat for 3 days. Even if a third of the game gets banned for 3 days oh well. What they did was wrong and might as well let the other people make some money those three days.

You know that one of the best ways to (legally) farm plat in the game is to do IQ quests? A couple hours in there and you can have well over 100k plat, even more if you have a haggle bard and/or are doing speed runs with a static plat farming group.

Gleep_Wurp
03-14-2011, 12:41 PM
get over it.how is the economy borked? everything you NEED to buy comes from vendors who have not raised their prices.as for stuff on ah well just go farm it yourself. if you dont have any friends or guildies to help with that maybe you have another type of problem. people who keep crying "the sky is falling the sky is falling" imo really have no clue. anything i made i already spent :)

Zaal
03-14-2011, 12:42 PM
how long are you going to beat a dead horse?

Till i can get me some gelatin from the bonez!

Requiro
03-14-2011, 12:42 PM
Oh, and large devil scales are still about twice as expensive as before the CC event...

I'm still waiting patiently to see if they ever go back down.

It won't if there are still people who want to buy for that price.

Same as tome +2. If there are people who will buy them for 500k plat the price will be not going down. But after some time, CC millionaire are waste their money, and everything back to normal.

Lorien_the_First_One
03-14-2011, 12:42 PM
Section 17. The bug that dowsing rods and other items from the event could be sold in game has been fixed with this patch.

The fact that items were salable could be just lack of forward thinking on the part of the devs. There is no evidence it is or was a bug. They could have made the items 1cp if they wanted, or made them unsalable. You have no reason to conclude that it was a bug - they were just the vendor trash of the event. You wouldn't have done much worse running IQ quests to ransack all day and selling the vendor trash from that (actually you'd probably do better selling IQ trash, and those quests sure aren't more difficult)

maddmatt70
03-14-2011, 12:43 PM
You know that one of the best ways to (legally) farm plat in the game is to do IQ quests? A couple hours in there and you can have well over 100k plat, even more if you have a haggle bard and/or are doing speed runs with a static plat farming group.

I am talking about making the plat from the event dowsing rods solely. What you could do to remedy the situation is up all quest loot by 5 times or something of that nature for the 3 day period that the offenders are banned.

Cyr
03-14-2011, 12:43 PM
Section 17. The bug that dowsing rods and other items from the event could be sold in game has been fixed with this patch.

Do you define the multitude of balance passes done in the game with all prior behavior to be bugs also?

TWF prior to balance pass = bug?
Epic SoS design prior to balance pass = bug?
Almost every desert epic item prior to numerous balance passes = bug?
Any development decision that is later re-evaluated = bug?

JOTMON
03-14-2011, 12:43 PM
One way to have everyone get rid of Plat would be to have Plat weigh as much as those dubloons did.
Every wealthy toon on the server would be over-encumbered.

General chat message... "Help me, I've become plat encumbered and can't get up"

Thrudh
03-14-2011, 12:45 PM
Not everything in game is working as intended, but that doesn't make it a bug or an exploit.

I'll agree with that... It's matter of scale though...

Being able to get something 50x as fast as normal is pretty far outside normal parameters.

Turbine screwed up here... They should have made an official annoucement about this issue... They should have fixed it on Monday after the weekend (really, whoever was deleting the posts about it over the weekend should have notified someone and they should have fixed it DURING the weekend).

(Note I'm not saying they should banned anyone... I'm saying they should have fixed it quickly, and there should be a stern announcement about taking advantage like this).

Instead, they swept it under the table, and taught EVERYONE that "exploit early, exploit often" is the smart thing to do...

LazarusPossum
03-14-2011, 12:45 PM
anyone who nabbed a stellar 3.75 interest rate on your mortgage recently should also be banned... taking advantage of the financing system like that... geez, you haxor.

LOL...funny 'cuz it's true-to-life.

jwdaniels
03-14-2011, 12:45 PM
I am talking about making the plat from the event dowsing rods solely. What you could do to remedy the situation is up all quest loot by 5 times or something of that nature for the 3 day period that the offenders are banned.

If only they had concurrently added a loot, exp, and renown bonus for people that didn't run the event...

Ziindarax
03-14-2011, 12:46 PM
Really? You fail to see? You have a terrible imagination.

I still need large devil scales. I cannot afford them now. Instead of TRing tomorrow and having fun with a new character class (one that is still fairly new to me), I now have to run Shroud 10+ more times instead.

My time is limited... The run-up in prices will mean a month delay for me to start playing my new character...

Sure, I don't HAVE to have that GS item made before I TR... I don't NEED large devil scales...

But you said there was NO impact on ANYONE. There was an impact on me, and anyone else who buys stuff from the AH.

One other thing to consider. Update 9 may make it to where random-gen weapons can approach the power of greensteel weapons depending how the enchantments are treated.

To be honest, most of the people playing this game couldn't afford the Devil scales then either because they were 400k+ platinum a scale. If you're implying that you could afford them then, but not now, what's keeping you from saving up money and simply buying the scales a bit later?

Large Devil scales have gone down in price on the AH on Orien.

maddmatt70
03-14-2011, 12:47 PM
Not all changes introduced in release notes are "bug fixes". You're making quite a leap in logic there to state that a change must be to a bug and then would be a retroactive COC issue ...

Webster's dictionary: bug: 2: an unexpected default, fault, flaw, or imperfection <the software was full of ..>. Sounds like this is not such a leap that you put forth here, but it was a bug that just got fixed.

ericrd
03-14-2011, 12:47 PM
alot of the plat made trickles down to poorer players through the ah and trades i didnt farm any dowsing rods but made alot of money from my auctions people are paying simply ******** prices for stuff i like rich people want more rich people and now the rich are at all lvls so all types of equip is moving fast awesome

elujin
03-14-2011, 12:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR5QyqlVn1Q

Thrudh
03-14-2011, 12:50 PM
You know that one of the best ways to (legally) farm plat in the game is to do IQ quests? A couple hours in there and you can have well over 100k plat, even more if you have a haggle bard and/or are doing speed runs with a static plat farming group.

4 million plat in 3-4 hours is 40x as fast as running IQ quests.

I'm not saying people should be banned, but it was clearly broken.

I've never had max plat (I have a lot of characters to outfit) in the 5 years I've played this game. It would take 100+ hours to max plat in IQ.

Plat is NOT worthless... That 100+ hours is a real cost.

Chai
03-14-2011, 12:50 PM
Turbine is human they will make more mistakes it is inevitable so the policy they should have when those mistakes happen and people take advantage of them is to look the other way. I do not think so.

They arent looking the other way. If they were they would have done NOTHING. What they have done is eliminated the ability to exploit further.

Please answer the questions in the post you quoted. How far does that rabbit hole go? Should the devs focus all their time editing peoples accounts of their ill gotten money, ill gotten items from that money, ill gotten shroud weapons where exploit money was used to buy scales and ingredients and then craft? How far? If someone bought a weapon with ill gotten money and then sold it to someone else do you expect it to just disappear?

Do you have any idea what kind of undertaking that would be in the software world? When they write the script that "fixes" all this, and it breaks more than it fixes, we will now be in some endless fix cycle, fixing the bugs created from the fix, the bugs created from the bug fix that was supposed to fix the money issue....ROFL.

Or, they can focus on what the entire community wants - more content, bug fixes, scheduled updates arriving on time - etc.

rest
03-14-2011, 12:50 PM
All my plat has already been laundered. Good luck getting it back :p

Zaal
03-14-2011, 12:51 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR5QyqlVn1Q

buhahahahaaa!!!

Thrudh
03-14-2011, 12:53 PM
They arent looking the other way. If they were they would have done NOTHING. What they have done is eliminated the ability to exploit further.

Please answer the questions in the post you quoted. How far does that rabbit hole go? Should the devs focus all their time editing peoples accounts of their ill gotten money, ill gotten items from that money, ill gotten shroud weapons where exploit money was used to buy scales and ingredients and then craft? How far? If someone bought a weapon with ill gotten money and then sold it to someone else do you expect it to just disappear?

Do you have any idea what kind of undertaking that would be in the software world? When they write the script that "fixes" all this, and it breaks more than it fixes, we will now be in some endless fix cycle, fixing the bugs created from the fix, the bugs created from the bug fix that was supposed to fix the money issue....ROFL.

Or, they can focus on what the entire community wants - more content, bug fixes, scheduled updates arriving on time - etc.

I would be happy if they just made an official post saying

"We screwed up... We're sorry. Those of you who took advantage will not be punished for our mistake THIS time. But recognize that in the future, if you come across a way to make plat or exp or items 50x faster than normal, please report it, and do not abuse it; it may be a bannable offense"

lethargos
03-14-2011, 12:55 PM
Not possible. Not the right thing to do (it wasnt a real exploit). Id give you a -1, but that wouldnt be in the spirit of rep system.

Just rethink what you proposed and think twice before you start a new thread, ever.

Gleep_Wurp
03-14-2011, 12:55 PM
not too shabby


LOL...funny 'cuz it's true-to-life.

KillEveryone
03-14-2011, 12:56 PM
Do you think that they really intended people to farm the shroud for ingredients and not finish the raid? I doubt that was intended to work that way either.

Yes I do.

You get loot at each stage. You don't have to complete to get something for your efforts. It may not be the final ingredient to upgrade your item to the final tier but there is no reason that you really have to complete if you are happy with Tier II and in some cases, Tier I is all that is actually needed. You even have a chance at getting a large in part 4. Not a guarantee like in part 5 but you still can get all you need to actually craft without ever completing.

Shroud farming has been done for far too long that if it was considered exploit, people would have been banned by now and it would have been fixed.

If the dev's didn't want people to farm Shroud, they could fix it.

There is no reason that Shroud was intended to be completed each and every time.

Chai
03-14-2011, 12:57 PM
Webster's dictionary: bug: 2: an unexpected default, fault, flaw, or imperfection <the software was full of ..>. Sounds like this is not such a leap that you put forth here, but it was a bug that just got fixed.

A bug is when function (A) is intended to be the result of the coding, (B) happens due to a flaw in the coding, and then the error in coding has to be identified and fixed so that (A) is what actually occurs.

It could have been intended design, and now that they realize that the intended design is flawed and messing up the economy, they decided to alter that design so this doesnt happen. It doesnt sound to me like the item being designated a value is a fault in the coding, just an overlooked mistake in intentionally designing something that can be sold repeatedly for limitless plat, limited only by the plat cap and inventory space to hold more of the item. They then change the code so that instead of (A) being the intended function, (A2) gets put in its place, which is a new intended function and not a bug fix.

jwdaniels
03-14-2011, 01:02 PM
There is no reason that Shroud was intended to be completed each and every time.

Other than the fact that every quest in the game was basically intended to be completed each and every time. It's definitely not a bannable offense, nor do I think it's an exploit, and there's really no way to "fix" it, but I'd be surprised if you asked the developers that designed the Shroud about farming it and they said they thought people would.

tkrenaud
03-14-2011, 01:03 PM
For those who think the economy will go back to normal... I certainly agree. In time. While I am (and was) aware that any type of rollback or removal of plat will not be implemented (and indeed the point of my post was to get some attention- which it certainly has), we all agree that the majority of the player base did NOT take advantage of the oversight. So who exactly took advantage? The overwhelming response has been "No don't do anything". I have no doubt, given the time of day and the speed with which you responded, that you are all more than "casual" gamers. I am also sure that you all have more than one capped (level) character (I have 6 and counting). While your opinions certainly are important they do not represent the majority. While an inflated price to one of us may be double, inflated prices to a casual gamer could be as little as 10k plat. From your responses I believe all of us to be reasonable. We can all agree on one principle: if you spent the time earning your item- you deserve it. When you jump for coins and sell them, while you may make a lot of money, but you DID spend the time jumping. Time spent is the key here. How many of us have a DoD? How long did it take you? Now what if suddenly it became a static reward? How would you feel? I know I would feel cheated, but I would get over it fast. Just like I have this incident. However in that situation no player was rewarded for being greedy. Let's face it not a one of you believes that Turbine put the dowsing rod in there so you could make money off the event. Yet I ran 2 days straight and every group I was in had at least one player talking about getting mounds of plat from selling dowsing rods.

There is no solution to this oversight. Greedy players took advantage and they were able to buy more items to equip their 3rd, 4th or 5th characters. Thats fine. I like to think those kind of people come and go. For them, like one person above mentioned, the game has a short life. For the rest of us, hardcore or casual alike, we feel a sense of accomplishment when we earn our gear. I recently gave away a Pale Lavender Ioun Stone to a friend. I had no problem doing so, cause I know it will be appreciated and the goodwill will be passed on. I know one person who will remain nameless, who made a ton of plat from the Winter Games, but he in turn donated a lot of it to his guild for their airship, etc. It is that kind of goodwill and comradery that has enabled this game to endure despite the failure of so many other MMO's. I remember the Chill Shard fiasco (and in fact still have some bound dwarven throwers and chill shards). I remember the Velah exploit. We weathered those and we will weather this one.

Bottom line: if you are one who capped one or more characters by selling dowsing rods, think about why you did. Does your gameplay enhance the enjoyment of DDO by the community overall? Perhaps you don't care and that is your prerogative, but don't reply to this post simply to assuage your own conscience.

Ziindarax
03-14-2011, 01:05 PM
I am talking about making the plat from the event dowsing rods solely. What you could do to remedy the situation is up all quest loot by 5 times or something of that nature for the 3 day period that the offenders are banned.

I like how you think the only way to remedy an oversight on Turbine's part is to simply ban all people who made "too much" money within 3 days.

The Dowsing rod thing was a matter of bad judgment on the developer's part, and many people took advantage of it.

To put it in perspective, let's say a restaurant made a bad choice, and thought it would be cool to give free hotwings to everyone who pulled up to buy anything. They later regret this because many, many people took advantage of it. Would it be fair to sue the entire town because they took advantage of an oversight on part of the restaurant? Heck no!

If a gas station made an error on their part and charged .451 cents a gallon (the number rounding down to 45 cents) instead of $4.51 a gallon, and you paid the price the clerk charged (even though it was in error), would it then be fair for the gas station to have the law suspend the Driver's Licenses of every customer who paid for gas at the price charged? Most likely, you'd end up with a lot of bad press, and lots of infuriated customers.

Case in point, Turbine should be more careful as to not repeat any of the errors made during the implementation of the Crystal Cove event.

jwdaniels
03-14-2011, 01:06 PM
For those who think the economy will go back to normal... I certainly agree. In time. While I am (and was) aware that any type of rollback or removal of plat will not be implemented (and indeed the point of my post was to get some attention- which it certainly has), we all agree that the majority of the player base did NOT take advantage of the oversight. So who exactly took advantage? The overwhelming response has been "No don't do anything". I have no doubt, given the time of day and the speed with which you responded, that you are all more than "casual" gamers. I am also sure that you all have more than one capped (level) character (I have 6 and counting). While your opinions certainly are important they do not represent the majority. While an inflated price to one of us may be double, inflated prices to a casual gamer could be as little as 10k plat. From your responses I believe all of us to be reasonable. We can all agree on one principle: if you spent the time earning your item- you deserve it. When you jump for coins and sell them, while you may make a lot of money, but you DID spend the time jumping. Time spent is the key here. How many of us have a DoD? How long did it take you? Now what if suddenly it became a static reward? How would you feel? I know I would feel cheated, but I would get over it fast. Just like I have this incident. However in that situation no player was rewarded for being greedy. Let's face it not a one of you believes that Turbine put the dowsing rod in there so you could make money off the event. Yet I ran 2 days straight and every group I was in had at least one player talking about getting mounds of plat from selling dowsing rods.

There is no solution to this oversight. Greedy players took advantage and they were able to buy more items to equip their 3rd, 4th or 5th characters. Thats fine. I like to think those kind of people come and go. For them, like one person above mentioned, the game has a short life. For the rest of us, hardcore or casual alike, we feel a sense of accomplishment when we earn our gear. I recently gave away a Pale Lavender Ioun Stone to a friend. I had no problem doing so, cause I know it will be appreciated and the goodwill will be passed on. I know one person who will remain nameless, who made a ton of plat from the Winter Games, but he in turn donated a lot of it to his guild for their airship, etc. It is that kind of goodwill and comradery that has enabled this game to endure despite the failure of so many other MMO's. I remember the Chill Shard fiasco (and in fact still have some bound dwarven throwers and chill shards). I remember the Velah exploit. We weathered those and we will weather this one.

Bottom line: if you are one who capped one or more characters by selling dowsing rods, think about why you did. Does your gameplay enhance the enjoyment of DDO by the community overall? Perhaps you don't care and that is your prerogative, but don't reply to this post simply to assuage your own conscience.

Are you suggesting that because I have the time to post during work hours that I'm a power-gamer and not someone stuck in front of a computer for 40 hours a week?

Also, how is it different to spend hours jumping for coins and sell them than to spend hours farming doubloons to turn into plat? If you're suggesting that the fact that the middle man is a vendor and not a player makes it any different than I respectfully disagree with you.

Uska
03-14-2011, 01:07 PM
While the mistake with the wands was one of the dumbest things they have done it would be a bad idea to recall the plat (no I didt get any I refused to take part in the event I hated both of the last 2 events) the plat problem will fix itself eventually the power of the items wont and thats just the way it is

Chai
03-14-2011, 01:08 PM
I would be happy if they just made an official post saying

"We screwed up... We're sorry. Those of you who took advantage will not be punished for our mistake THIS time. But recognize that in the future, if you come across a way to make plat or exp or items 50x faster than normal, please report it, and do not abuse it; it may be a bannable offense"

You do realize who we are talking about here, right? :p

History has shown that this likely will not occur. I too would like to see them actually come out and say during the time something like this is happening that this either is or is not an exploit etc. How much of the economy borking could have been curbed if they actually identified this as a known issue and an exploit?

This is one thing Verant and SOE did differently with regards to EQ back in the day. They would clearly post and identify if something was WAI or bug / exploit. If a company does this, then there is no waffling that can be accused of on the issue if action is taken against people for engaging in the activity. Turbine wants to be all secret squirrel about it, and doing so really doesnt give them the ability weeks down the road to start editing peoples accounts after the fact. This is one reason why this suggestion is absurd.

Vint
03-14-2011, 01:08 PM
I think that this so called *Bug* was what Turbine intended. I would really like to see how many casual, or people that didnt farm spent on the DDO Store. I wouldnt pay 50k plat for a Major Mana pot. Maybe some out there couldnt afford (insert item) and decided to get out the old credit card. Just a thought.

P.S. Played since beta have had millions of plat before the event. If I need 2 scales to craft I deem how important plat is. I can go farm or go buy. Plat has its own value to everyone.

GentlemanAndAScholar
03-14-2011, 01:12 PM
It appears that those who plat the game a lot (and thus probably have most of the gear they need) got even more wealthy as a result of the Dowsing Rods epidemic. So why not reduce the plat of those who so obviously got millions of plat selling the rods? I wouldn't be averse to a complete wipeout of any plat acquired by selling dowsing rods.

Those who play less spent the time in the event getting stuff to make a piece of gear (or two). While those who had oodles of time used the time to take advantage of an obvious oversight. As a result now those who actually use the auction house to buy an item they need (that they don't have the time to spend farming said item) can't afford the item because those who took advantage of the oversight are now willing to spend more plat on item(s) (which incidentally they probably already have on numerous alts).

Fixing the oversight by eliminating future selling is hardly going to remedy those of us who now suffer from the inflated prices caused by the oversight. I am sure you can come up with a more creative solution... you know who took advantage either even the playing field by taking away from them or conversely doing something for those of us who didn't/couldn't take advantage.

I have been playing since the game went live and will continue but I am disappointed by your solution, generally you have been much better about fixing such mistakes...

While I agree with you in principle, I don't think play wiping is the right solution.

1) People might have already spent the ill-gotten plat in trades/AH.
2) AH super inflated prices were true since as far as I can remember.

Apparently SO many people (ab)used this flawed mechanic, that handing out temp bans would probably cause a mass hysteria like with the Mabar event. To be honest, while the fix in place is not an ideal solution, it's the one with least resistance and the least effort (and risk).

Chai
03-14-2011, 01:12 PM
Also, how is it different to spend hours jumping for coins and sell them than to spend hours farming doubloons to turn into plat? If you're suggesting that the fact that the middle man is a vendor and not a player makes it any different than I respectfully disagree with you.

Because running back and forth between the boat and the tavern totally smacks of effort. :p

It is different. Selling to a player means money changes hands. Selling on the AH means money changes hands and 30% of it goes away. Selling to a vendor introduces money into the world that did not exist before - up to and including capped plat and an inventory full of more rods to sell. I disagree - they are VERY different.

Unprecidented generation of money in huge amounts where none existed before =/= money changing hands from one player to the other (which 30% of disappears if using the AH). One completely borks economies if in the game long enough and ignored, where the other does not.

Jaid314
03-14-2011, 01:13 PM
maybe it's just me, but after farming the even most of the weekend, i got about 3-4 million plat. now, i wasn't on all day every day, but that was probably a good 15-16 hours of even, maybe more, although some of my gems went towards crafting items and similar, which i would much rather have (seriously, i could farm for a couple hours and get a tier 3 epic ratkiller, or i could farm for a couple hours and get enough plat to buy the ingredients for a tier 3 shroud item... which won't break most trash DR (on trash that has it), won't have the stunning on it, doesn't do double base damage, isn't a +6 weapon, doesn't have a red slot...

so... i farmed for, say, 3 hours, and got an epic ratkiller. a BTA epic weapon. actually, i probably got a couple of good items in that time. someone else farmed plat for those 3 hours, and got enough to buy half a single-shard greensteel maybe. if they managed to get in before all the cheap stuff was bought out. after which point, they would get even less.

i come out of the event with a bunch of really nice loot. then at the end i turn my leftovers into plat (and elemental summoning gems). they turn the even into a bunch of plat... and then get a bunch of gear that probably isn't even as good as what i got in the first place, and probably less of it. and in the meanwhile, i now have enough plat to buy my alts a big stack of haste pots and not care about the cost.

meanwhile, the person who blew all their farmed plat on shroud ingredients... probably has no plat left.

frankly, i'm not convinced the people who farmed only plat are the real winners here. there's no way i would have been able to *buy* my two epic ratkillers (one tier 2, one tier 3), my 2 tier 3 spyglasses, the epic smallblades, etc with plat. the gear was a much better option to farm. the fact that at the end of it all, i also wound up with what amounts to a lot of potions to burn is just the icing on the cake.

meanwhile, the people who farmed plat like crazy and payed 'borked economy' prices for shroud ingredients will have less actual loot out of it for the same amount of effort. except that i got to spend a lot more time playing the event, whereas they spent a lot more time... running back and forth to vendors. how exciting.

Thrudh
03-14-2011, 01:21 PM
Also, how is it different to spend hours jumping for coins and sell them than to spend hours farming doubloons to turn into plat? If you're suggesting that the fact that the middle man is a vendor and not a player makes it any different than I respectfully disagree with you.

It's definitely different... Player to player transfers don't cause inflation.

I'm sorry I keep carping on this... I don't think anyone should be banned... I think it was all the devs fault. But don't act like there were zero consequences.

LazarusPossum
03-14-2011, 01:22 PM
I think that this so called *Bug* was what Turbine intended. I would really like to see how many casual, or people that didnt farm spent on the DDO Store. I wouldnt pay 50k plat for a Major Mana pot. Maybe some out there couldnt afford (insert item) and decided to get out the old credit card. Just a thought.

P.S. Played since beta have had millions of plat before the event. If I need 2 scales to craft I deem how important plat is. I can go farm or go buy. Plat has its own value to everyone.

Agreed. Either you install a safety valve for those who think they'll wind up stuffed to the gills with gems/dubloons/pots/rods, or you don't, and then have to deal with the howling about leftover treasure that can't be turned in once the event is over.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Requiro
03-14-2011, 01:23 PM
I would be happy if they just made an official post saying

"We screwed up... We're sorry. Those of you who took advantage will not be punished for our mistake THIS time. But recognize that in the future, if you come across a way to make plat or exp or items 50x faster than normal, please report it, and do not abuse it; it may be a bannable offense"

But they are not screwed up... People (players) who destroy AH economy are screwed up. Turbine made a little mistake (now is corrected), and people have opportunity to be a DDO millionaire. And THAT people and people who are greedy (post items in AH for impossible price) destroyed AH economy. Not Turbine. Sorry but this is sad true...

But to be honest. Only AH economy was broken (and now everything slowly back to normal), rest are not touch by this problem. Just like was well said here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR5QyqlVn1Q

:)

EDIT:
(...)I think it was all the devs fault. (...)

No. It was players fault. Economy is ruled by players not by Turbine.

jwdaniels
03-14-2011, 01:25 PM
It's definitely different... Player to player transfers don't cause inflation.

I'm sorry I keep carping on this... I don't think anyone should be banned... I think it was all the devs fault. But don't act like there were zero consequences.

In the short-term, there was a spike in prices in the high-end of the price structure, no question. From what I can see (at least on Sarlona) that has already pretty much settled and the increased volume of higher-priced transactions most likely removed a lot of this "ill-gotten plat" from the economy already.

Long term, there's nothing to be gained or lost to the economy from this because, by nature, the game already has the ability to generate limitless plat.

Therefore, I actually do think the overall consequences of this was pretty much zero.

Thrudh
03-14-2011, 01:31 PM
Therefore, I actually do think the overall consequences of this was pretty much zero.

Long-term monetary consequences are pretty minimal, I'll agree...

But now everyone knows to "Take advantage of any dev mistake early and fast and as much as possible before they fix it"

That's a consequence that will not be knocked down 30% at a time automatically.

Slorgs
03-14-2011, 01:33 PM
Most people who got rich quick spent their money on the AH buying at over inflated prices. They all lost at 33% per AH transaction. The AH sucks massive amounts of plat from that game. People were buying large scales at 1.5 million plat (that's 500k out of the economy per transaction).

The uber rich will stay rich because they already had lots of plat and were using it wisely. Even people who scrimp and save their massive gains will eventually need something in a hurry (like a demon's blood) and will spend their plat on the AH or in a private trade.

The AH was already ruined stupid by the change from gold prices to plat prices and this is just another blip in the grand scheme of things. Once people can't sell scales and items for huge prices they will drop again. Bloodstones abound at 600k plat which was in the area of the going rate before the crash.

krackythehoodedone
03-14-2011, 01:41 PM
/not signed

Firstly it doesn't bother me at all that a load of toons got a load of Plat.

Secondly in Economic terms as all the player base have access to the same saleable commodities any influx of currency will quickly be re distributed amongst the community.

It was always possible to have enough Plat to purchase pretty much what you wanted by clever use of the AH (and i dont mean charging silly prices) and that is still the case.

sephiroth1084
03-14-2011, 01:44 PM
No.

jwdaniels
03-14-2011, 01:45 PM
But now everyone knows to "Take advantage of any dev mistake early and fast and as much as possible before they fix it"

That's been a maxim to live by in MMOs as far back as I can remember. I can't tell you how much character leveling I did in Star Wars Galaxies via macro while I was at work...

voodoogroves
03-14-2011, 01:54 PM
For those who think the economy will go back to normal... I certainly agree. In time. While I am (and was) aware that any type of rollback or removal of plat will not be implemented (and indeed the point of my post was to get some attention- which it certainly has), we all agree that the majority of the player base did NOT take advantage of the oversight. So who exactly took advantage? The overwhelming response has been "No don't do anything". I have no doubt, given the time of day and the speed with which you responded, that you are all more than "casual" gamers. I am also sure that you all have more than one capped (level) character (I have 6 and counting). While your opinions certainly are important they do not represent the majority. While an inflated price to one of us may be double, inflated prices to a casual gamer could be as little as 10k plat. From your responses I believe all of us to be reasonable. We can all agree on one principle: if you spent the time earning your item- you deserve it. When you jump for coins and sell them, while you may make a lot of money, but you DID spend the time jumping. Time spent is the key here. How many of us have a DoD? How long did it take you? Now what if suddenly it became a static reward? How would you feel? I know I would feel cheated, but I would get over it fast. Just like I have this incident. However in that situation no player was rewarded for being greedy. Let's face it not a one of you believes that Turbine put the dowsing rod in there so you could make money off the event. Yet I ran 2 days straight and every group I was in had at least one player talking about getting mounds of plat from selling dowsing rods.

There is no solution to this oversight. Greedy players took advantage and they were able to buy more items to equip their 3rd, 4th or 5th characters. Thats fine. I like to think those kind of people come and go. For them, like one person above mentioned, the game has a short life. For the rest of us, hardcore or casual alike, we feel a sense of accomplishment when we earn our gear. I recently gave away a Pale Lavender Ioun Stone to a friend. I had no problem doing so, cause I know it will be appreciated and the goodwill will be passed on. I know one person who will remain nameless, who made a ton of plat from the Winter Games, but he in turn donated a lot of it to his guild for their airship, etc. It is that kind of goodwill and comradery that has enabled this game to endure despite the failure of so many other MMO's. I remember the Chill Shard fiasco (and in fact still have some bound dwarven throwers and chill shards). I remember the Velah exploit. We weathered those and we will weather this one.

Bottom line: if you are one who capped one or more characters by selling dowsing rods, think about why you did. Does your gameplay enhance the enjoyment of DDO by the community overall? Perhaps you don't care and that is your prerogative, but don't reply to this post simply to assuage your own conscience.

I didn't platinum cap anyone. At all. I didn't even convert most of my gems to stuff to sell.

Not going to lie, I sold some. But I kept gems and the like because I may want to make more stuff ... and plat will come ... the event is more rare.



BUT ....


I'm a realist. I don't bother in the ice games. I don't do the egg hunts. I don't ritually ransack the bloodstone chest. Others do, they like that grind and benefit from it. If an item is over-powered or the $ production is too high, I fully support Turbine making changes.


I do NOT think that what you proposed where you both punish one group who did some grindy task to great benefit and by doing so give an implied benefit to folks who not oly "not do it" but may not have even been logged on to be grossly unrealistic.

muffinlad
03-14-2011, 02:10 PM
In real life...I am pretty much a crunchy, left wing type. I don't want folks to take advantage of an exploit and harm real people.

In a game, pretty much I am Ayn Rand on a bender. What other people did to get more money has so little practical effect on me that I am not sure why I should, or anyone else should, care.

First- Did I lose my house/ship because others could buy a better ship? No.
Second- Did I lose my ability to buy food or supplies? No.
Third- Do I lose any social standing due to having less plat? No. Do I gain any? No.
Fourth- Is the way I play the game significantly impacted because I cannot buy a Flawless Red Scale for 2million Plat instead of the 1million I used to? Not in any practical way.
Fifth- the effect of the event was short term, so will it be corrected over time? Yes.

This may not be a non-issue, but it is as close to a non-issue as you can get once the Dev's implemented the correction.

BTW- I am NOT discounting the dislike of the how this was handled by others...you have the right to your opinions on the matter. I would ask that you really look at the practical effect of this happening one time...it was a chocolate covered deepfried cheese cake for your birthday, with caramel sauce....not as your daily meal.

Should you have eaten it? No. But if it is one time, it wont kill you.

muffinchef

Teech
03-14-2011, 02:13 PM
That's been a maxim to live by in MMOs as far back as I can remember. I can't tell you how much character leveling I did in Star Wars Galaxies via macro while I was at work...

Isn't it sad how we encourage people to 'break the rules, just don't get caught'?

Ok, before someone nitpicks and says that no rules were broken, let me rephrase.

Its ok to do something that the law did not intend for you to do so long as you stop doing it when the legal eagles finally realise their mistake and make an official announcement.

Zenako
03-14-2011, 02:24 PM
Please keep in mind that the mass Mabar banning was not intentional either, but the result of a systems failure that caught a lot of players in an ill designed web. So Turbine did not intend to MASS ban the numbers of players who got affected. Yes, a lot of players were borking the system, but most of those banned were innocent.

This pricing oops was just that. Notice how the prices of many event items are trivial in nature. Like Shroud Ingredients or Tome Pages all have "worths" of a few silver or gold, so that even an attempt to sell them (if you could) would net a pittance. Well the D&D algorithm for pricing over level wands is highly costly, so that the high level Dowsing Rods became worth a LOT. (~9000 Plat each if I recall correctly) So a decent haggle toon should net 30% or so when selling. (It is the same formula that makes all the higher level than normal wands so expensive.) I personally feel it was just a case of someone tossing into the mix of things to buy some "cool" items and not even thinking about what the pricing scheme would generate on that item. Compound that with having few good options of what to spend Gold Dubbloons on, and that led to the fairly rapid discovery of a way to convert excess Stolen Gems into a more easily stored plat. (While you could stack the Dubbloons up to 9999 high, they only went into bags in stacks of 1000 at a time. grrrr.)

I also take a slight issue with the claim of being able to cap plat in just 4 hours. I am assuming you are starting from 0 plat.

Now each Diamond/Emerald was worth 50 Gold Dubs. If you got 100 Stolen Gems each run (possible I guess), then that would be 5000 Gold dubs or 50 Greater Dowsing Rods (at 100 per rod). In a 4 hour span it would be hard to get more than 8 runs of the cove in (2 per opening and a bit of downtime between openings.) So that would be 400 Rods. At 3000 plat a rod, that would still only be 1,200,000 million plat. About 300K per hour. To cap plat in 4 hours would mean you were pulling almost 350 gems every run and there is no way I see that happening.

Now if by using some of the buffs that could make related stuff drop from suitable mobs in quests was giving high gems drops outside of the cove, then it might be possible, but on that I have no clue.

Raiderone
03-14-2011, 02:25 PM
It appears that those who play the game a lot (and thus probably have most of the gear they need) got even more wealthy as a result of the Dowsing Rods epidemic. So why not reduce the plat of those who so obviously got millions of plat selling the rods? I wouldn't be averse to a complete wipeout of any plat acquired by selling dowsing rods. I realize this is not realistic but perhaps the mere thought of it as a possibility will discourage future conduct of this sort.

Those who play less spent the time in the event getting stuff to make a piece of gear (or two). While those who had oodles of time used the time to take advantage of an obvious oversight. As a result now those who actually use the auction house to buy an item they need (that they don't have the time to spend farming said item) can't afford the item because those who took advantage of the oversight are now willing to spend more plat on item(s) (which incidentally they probably already have on numerous alts).

Fixing the oversight by eliminating future selling is hardly going to remedy those who now suffer from the inflated prices caused by the oversight. I am sure you can come up with a more creative solution... you know who took advantage either even the playing field by taking away from them or conversely doing something for those who didn't/couldn't take advantage.

I have been playing since the game went live and will continue but I am disappointed by your solution, generally you have been much better about fixing such mistakes...

P.S. In the spirit of offering realistic solutions... how about rewarding those who didn't dump their gems etc into dowsing rods by creating a new Broker- the broker could give out some type of clickie or item to those who still have stuff leftover from the event. Supposedly the event is coming back, so that would only be feasible if the event did not come back or if it could be implemented before the event did return...

I'm not sure what you mean by future conduct of this sort? What selling something that has a plat value? Why would you be rewarded?
Dev's made the mistake not the players. What would you have them do stop the event due to a plat issue?

Cause really plat has never been really the currency anyway. It's all scales and shroud ingredients. The AH has always been overpriced and overrated.

Something had be done with all those left over Gold Doubloons!

Heck you want to take plat away. Then wipe all plat from everyone.
Maybe leave a little for repairs, like 10K plat per toon Max.

But no ones to blame for selling items that have a value! Sounds more sour grapes to me!

Quanefel
03-14-2011, 02:30 PM
No.

Skinned
03-14-2011, 02:33 PM
I should point out that I'm against the OP's idea... There's no good way to reduce the plat now... The system will work itself out.



I have zero confidence that the devs learned anything from this mistake. I had no real problem with the original mistake, but the fact that they let this problem continue for two days after the weekend made me lose all respect and confidence in the devs. I hate that they never addressed the issue directly.

I haven't played this game much since then...

I sell the rewards I get from quests to the vendor most of the time anyway. Sounds like more QQing.

voodoogroves
03-14-2011, 02:34 PM
Isn't it sad how we encourage people to 'break the rules, just don't get caught'?

Ok, before someone nitpicks and says that no rules were broken, let me rephrase.

Its ok to do something that the law did not intend for you to do so long as you stop doing it when the legal eagles finally realise their mistake and make an official announcement.

Do not mistake laws which protect peoples rights and liberties with the rules of the game which may or may not give a player an advantage.

If a football team found some other trick-play to get an advantage (only doing onside kicks, etc.) would you expect them not to on principle? And would you then go back and find every team that did an onside kick and take away those points that may have been scored? And then scold them for trying to get an advantage in a competition?

Unintended consequence =/= bug =/= direct legal parallel.

KillEveryone
03-14-2011, 02:38 PM
I really get the feeling that the OP didn't sell the wands for plat and now that it can't be done, they are a bit upset that they didn't take advantage of it. I also get the feeling that they are upset that others that did take advantage are not going to be punished so they posted their suggestion.

Raiderone
03-14-2011, 02:38 PM
Please point me at the exact section of the CoC that was violated.

Exactly. People love to spread false rumors of ban's. That's against CoC so be warned Floyd!

Let's see play event, get thousands upon thousands of useless Gold Doubloons.
Check in chest to see what can drop that amount.

Ungood
03-14-2011, 02:43 PM
Are you worn out from everyone else having better gear then you?

Are you tired that you missed on the good money making schemes in the game?

Do you feel slighted that you're not the super duper most amazing player ever?

I have a solution for you!

Whine on the Forums!

Everyone else is doing it! Why not you!

Gallivant1
03-14-2011, 02:45 PM
I agree with Khanyth's prompt reply. An RPG of this magnatude is a nightmare for CS, QA, and DEV. Putting attention towards this will distract them from higher priority risk items. Every now and then, something will unbalance the economy just like in the real world... this plat inflation will equalize over time.

IronClan
03-14-2011, 02:49 PM
Oh, and large devil scales are still about twice as expensive as before the CC event...

I'm still waiting patiently to see if they ever go back down.

^this people who keep saying prices are normal are people who either don't pay attention to them or had no clue how much stuff was selling for to begin with.

Ungood
03-14-2011, 02:56 PM
^this people who keep saying prices are normal are people who either don't pay attention to them or had no clue how much stuff was selling for to begin with.

Just to clear this up for me, are you basing your entire economic projection on this One Item?

jwdaniels
03-14-2011, 02:57 PM
^this people who keep saying prices are normal are people who either don't pay attention to them or had no clue how much stuff was selling for to begin with.

I'm not sure what server you're on, but on Sarlona (as someone else also said) prices on things at the AH are pretty much where they were before the event at this point. I'm neither clueless nor uninformed to what the AH prices were.

tkrenaud
03-14-2011, 02:58 PM
I edited my original post if you care to read it:)

P.S. I understand the forums are infamous for criticisms and so I give everybody the benefit of the doubt... but to the few who think I am whining, I think you should reread my original post as well as my addition later on. If you still feel I am whining I apologize profusely as it is not my intent. The thread was meant to get the attention of the devs (thus posted in suggestions & ideas forum) and so the extreme idea... I have read every response and despite some harsh words, I believe everybody (except of course those who simply replied "no"- though even those are important for simply expressing an opinion!) has been an important part of this discussion.

Indoran
03-14-2011, 03:02 PM
not signed...

Chai
03-14-2011, 03:08 PM
I'm not sure what server you're on, but on Sarlona (as someone else also said) prices on things at the AH are pretty much where they were before the event at this point. I'm neither clueless nor uninformed to what the AH prices were.

No, they are not.

Devil scales, Blue Dragon scales, boss beaters, and tomes are all hugely inflated. People are asking 750k plat for a +1 tome. It was 150-250k before the event.

People now think that +1 metalline of pure good should put their pixelated kids through college.

voodoogroves
03-14-2011, 03:10 PM
No, they are not.

Devil scales, Blue Dragon scales, boss beaters, and tomes are all hugely inflated. People are asking 750k plat for a +1 tome. It was 150-250k before the event.

People now think that +1 metalline of pure good should put their pixelated kids through college.

The idea that a +1 tome has that kind of value is staggering to me. I tend to give mine away and even on TRs get from 3-7 fast enough that I don't bother with +1s ....

jwdaniels
03-14-2011, 03:12 PM
No, they are not.

Devil scales, Blue Dragon scales, boss beaters, and tomes are all hugely inflated. People are asking 750k plat for a +1 tome. It was 150-250k before the event.

People now think that +1 metalline of pure good should put their pixelated kids through college.

I bought a +1 Int tome for something like 13k the other day, and boss beaters are definitely not any more than 35k - 150k. Even the +2 tomes are back down to like 300k or thereabouts. I'm not talking about the highest price listed, I'm talking about the lowest prices, where people are actually clicking the buy button.

I can put stuff up there for anything I want, what is relevant is the price that things sell for. There's always a stupid overpriced item, yes, but that's not any different from before Crystal Cove either.

jwdaniels
03-14-2011, 03:12 PM
The idea that a +1 tome has that kind of value is staggering to me. I tend to give mine away and even on TRs get from 3-7 fast enough that I don't bother with +1s ....

Don't worry, it doesn't have that kind of value.

Asirin
03-14-2011, 03:16 PM
I love it when people make blanket statements like "It killed our economy" or " Dey took our jobs" with absolutely no evidence to prove otherwise.

Any basic Auction "economy" only has one rule,the cheapest in demand item sells.
If the price goes up on any item..(believe me when I say I watch ALL the key items very carefully) simply undercut until the gougers get sick of fighting it and go away.Thus driving the price back down.

It does not matter how much plat you or I have it's a matter of how much you will spend.

So jump off the soapbox and relax,the terrible economy will still be terrible long after people have no more plat left from said event.

Gleep_Wurp
03-14-2011, 03:17 PM
Till i can get me some gelatin from the bonez!

lol

Azonalanthious
03-14-2011, 03:24 PM
Devil scales, Blue Dragon scales, boss beaters, and tomes are all hugely inflated. People are asking 750k plat for a +1 tome. It was 150-250k before the event.

Just remember there is a difference between asking and getting. Seeing folks post things for insanely high prices doesn't mean they are selling for that.

My personal perspective: I ground the event for item crafting. Took several days, but I eventually got all the items I wanted. I did many solo runs in CC during that time, so it took me a while to build up crystals, and as a result I ended up with a fair number of gems beyond what I needed for crafting. Once I had finished crafting, I swapped the gems out, got rods, and sold them. Why? Not because I was trying to abuse the system, was greedy, wanted to cap plat, etc. I did it because I was finished with the even, had a bunch of useless gems in my backpack, and this way I got something for the gems I had worked to farm, rather then just throwing them away. I made ~2 million plat of them. I promptly spent 1.9 million of that (as in the same day), picking up a +2 tome I hadn't gotten around to yet, and picking up gear to shuffle around slots and adjust things around the spots now taken by my new gear.

By the definition of pretty much everyone who is complaining about those who made a lot of plat, it seems I apparently exploited a bug, should be banned or otherwise punished, and am a horrible wicked person. To me, a pretty casual, laid back player (been around pretty much since the beginning and I have exactly 1 level capped toon), I played an event, got some neat stuff and some cash to let me adjust around the neat stuff, and moved on with my life. I would be very annoyed to be 'punished' for doing that <-- you can ***** all you like, but I don't feel in any way, shape, or form that I did something 'wrong'.

AndyD47
03-14-2011, 03:49 PM
If we ever see any mass banning due to an event,I'm not sure if it'd be worth participating in any events ever again.

Playing the game itself would be questionable too.

I like the fact that the event had some way to make cash open to everyone.
Everyone having more pocket money for consumables really isn't a bad thing folks.

I just wish it was advertised better so that everyone had the opportunity to take advantage of it.

PopeJual
03-14-2011, 03:56 PM
By the definition of pretty much everyone who is complaining about those who made a lot of plat, it seems I apparently exploited a bug, should be banned or otherwise punished, and am a horrible wicked person. To me, a pretty casual, laid back player (been around pretty much since the beginning and I have exactly 1 level capped toon), I played an event, got some neat stuff and some cash to let me adjust around the neat stuff, and moved on with my life. I would be very annoyed to be 'punished' for doing that <-- you can ***** all you like, but I don't feel in any way, shape, or form that I did something 'wrong'.

Your summary is not accurate.

I have no problem with what you did. I do have a problem with Turbine for letting such an easy and fast plat source get into the game when the AH fee and Haste pots are pretty much still the only plat sinks in the game.

I've complained about the rods wrecking the DDO economy (and it was wrecked even if the effect isn't permanent - after all, the economy of Spain eventually recovered from the influx of New World gold). That's not the fault of the people who took advantage of an obvious source of income. That's the fault of the people who put an obvious source of income into the game even after they were warned that this would happen.

azrael4h
03-14-2011, 03:56 PM
No, they are not.

Devil scales, Blue Dragon scales, boss beaters, and tomes are all hugely inflated. People are asking 750k plat for a +1 tome. It was 150-250k before the event.

People now think that +1 metalline of pure good should put their pixelated kids through college.

What server are you on????

I routinely saw +1's for closer to 15-20k plat, and usually posted mine for 10k. I've not pulled any since CC (a couple of +2's, but I put one up for roll, and the other I didn't know I had until after that Shroud run was over), but 150k is at least 10x the price I saw when I last did a price check.

*Edit*

Did a price check, buyouts are listed at 20k plat and up. While there is one or two listed at 100k and 350k, I highly doubt anyone will be stupid enough to buy them. Not when they can get one at a fraction of the cost. While higher than what it was, it's still no where near what your server thinks a +1 is worth on a "normal" day.

doubledge
03-14-2011, 04:00 PM
fine. but give me 1-2 million plat, as due to the fact my computer was destroyed during the event, and was unable to farm any platinum, i should get some compensation.

Thrudh
03-14-2011, 04:00 PM
I also take a slight issue with the claim of being able to cap plat in just 4 hours. I am assuming you are starting from 0 plat.

Now each Diamond/Emerald was worth 50 Gold Dubs. If you got 100 Stolen Gems each run (possible I guess), then that would be 5000 Gold dubs or 50 Greater Dowsing Rods (at 100 per rod). In a 4 hour span it would be hard to get more than 8 runs of the cove in (2 per opening and a bit of downtime between openings.) So that would be 400 Rods. At 3000 plat a rod, that would still only be 1,200,000 million plat. About 300K per hour. To cap plat in 4 hours would mean you were pulling almost 350 gems every run and there is no way I see that happening.

FYI, what people were doing were running in. splitting up, killing everything, then jumping out, reform group, and do it again... They weren't doing full completions with the kobolds... They ignored the kobolds... Instead of getting 100 gems every 20 minutes, they would get 100 gems every 5 minutes, and do 8 runs (last run, they would actually do the full completion with the kobolds)

voodoogroves
03-14-2011, 04:04 PM
FYI, what people were doing were running in. splitting up, killing everything, then jumping out, reform group, and do it again... They weren't doing full completions with the kobolds... They ignored the kobolds... Instead of getting 100 gems every 20 minutes, they would get 100 gems every 5 minutes, and do 8 runs (last run, they would actually do the full completion with the kobolds)

Some did just this and the wands-for-plat thing

Some, however, ran the cove to full completion multiple times and made some plat with their spares. Depending on how much they did the normal runs, this could still be a chunk of plat.

Is one bad and the other not? Is one more in the spirit and the other not? Did everyone have the same understandnig ahead of time?



Who's the objective judge on this?

zebidos
03-14-2011, 04:11 PM
I made about 1,000,000 plat selling unwanted large devil scales as I really did not want to run the shroud, or any quest more then 5 times just to make a item.

I am using that money to give away 100 stacks of heal pots to lowbies who can't afford them (and hopefully get them used to being able to look after themselves)

Well and the 1000's of rage, haste, barksking pots etc for me :)

Bobthesponge
03-14-2011, 05:06 PM
I actually read all 7 pages... I really don't know why.

So, in summary:

1) The difference between jumping for coins and selling the result for plat and farming gems then selling the result for plat is zero. The one comment that said "as if running from the ship to the tavern was real work" missed the whole farming part of it in CC.

2) The economy isn't broken. The price for essentials has not changed. Cure/repain pots, haste pots, curse pots, disease pots, poison pots, resist pots, heal scrolls, cure wands, ect have NOT CHANGED IN VALUE.

3) Large ingredients, scales, ect are FREE. They cost nothing. If you want a large devil scale go run Shroud, Amrath or Devil Assault. If you want blue scales run Tor. Prices on the AH mean nothing - ESPECIALLY the top end prices. A large devil scale is worth exactly what you paid for it. If you agree to pay 2M plat for scales then that is what they are worth to you. Personally, I pay 0 plat for mine.

4) The dowsing rod prices are not a bug. It is not an exploit. They were valued rather highly for the effort it took to get them (and there was effort - see item 1) but nobody broke any rules when selling gems to get them and then selling the rods to vendors. Anyone who thinks this is an exploit also probably things Information is Key should only be worth 300XP. Or Wiz King should only be worth 3000XP. Should people be banned for farming XP from these quests? Some things have more value than others. Deal with it.

5) Anyone who starts another "Economy is broken" thread should be banned. Permanently.

hityawithastick
03-14-2011, 05:14 PM
5) Anyone who posts in another "Economy is broken" thread should be banned. Permanently.

This. End of discussion. :D

PopeJual
03-14-2011, 05:41 PM
3) Large ingredients, scales, ect are FREE. They cost nothing. If you want a large devil scale go run Shroud, Amrath or Devil Assault. If you want blue scales run Tor. Prices on the AH mean nothing - ESPECIALLY the top end prices. A large devil scale is worth exactly what you paid for it. If you agree to pay 2M plat for scales then that is what they are worth to you. Personally, I pay 0 plat for mine.

I agree with your basic stand on this issue, but saying that Large Scales, etc. are free is like saying that real world dollars are free. They cost you nothing other than the time and effort involved in acquiring them. If you want more money, just go run a "job" and you'll get them for FREE every week or two.

...anything that requires time and effort to acquire is not free and anything that has a lockout timer on it in particular is not free because of the opportunity cost involved in the use of those ingredients.

tkrenaud
03-14-2011, 06:05 PM
Asked for thread to be closed. My point has been lost in the mix, so no purpose to thread. Thanks for thoughts all. See you in game:)

mystafyi
03-14-2011, 06:07 PM
the plat issue, while detrimental to the plat based economy in short term, was nothing compared to the real problems with the event. I hope the dev's fixed the ability to get 140k xp/per 40 min since cc did not have repetition penalties.

Kaeldur
03-14-2011, 06:07 PM
It appears that those who play the game a lot (and thus probably have most of the gear they need) got even more wealthy as a result of the Dowsing Rods epidemic. So why not reduce the plat of those who so obviously got millions of plat selling the rods? I wouldn't be averse to a complete wipeout of any plat acquired by selling dowsing rods. I realize this is not realistic but perhaps the mere thought of it as a possibility will discourage future conduct of this sort.

I don't know what the solution could be, but I wish they'd make something that would, like you said, discourage future conduct.


Those who play less spent the time in the event getting stuff to make a piece of gear (or two). While those who had oodles of time used the time to take advantage of an obvious oversight. As a result now those who actually use the auction house to buy an item they need (that they don't have the time to spend farming said item) can't afford the item because those who took advantage of the oversight are now willing to spend more plat on item(s) (which incidentally they probably already have on numerous alts).

Fixing the oversight by eliminating future selling is hardly going to remedy those who now suffer from the inflated prices caused by the oversight. I am sure you can come up with a more creative solution... you know who took advantage either even the playing field by taking away from them or conversely doing something for those who didn't/couldn't take advantage.

I agree. It's not actually about me. I have said several times: I don't use AH, I have more than enough plat to buy whatever I need for any of my characters, and that was before the event. No, I don't have capped plat, but I have more than enough. I refused to partake in the wand selling.

What I try to tell people, but people just ignore it, is that us players should care for the game. It was obviously wrong, but people just care about themselves. Now all new players are gonna have a tougher time at the game, in my opinion. But rather than reading people prefer to personally attack me.


P.S. In the spirit of offering realistic solutions... how about rewarding those who didn't dump their gems etc into dowsing rods by creating a new Broker- the broker could give out some type of clickie or item to those who still have stuff leftover from the event. Supposedly the event is coming back, so that would only be feasible if the event did not come back or if it could be implemented before the event did return...

I suggested that also, but I doubt they'll implement it. But then when I suggested it people were saying I considered myself better than other people because I didn't do it. And some people thought I didn't do it because "I was too slow". Bottom line is I have conscience and I chose not to, I could've, but didn't want to. If that makes me better than someone else? Hardly, but at least I feel I did my little tiny part in not making thins even worse.




UPDATE:
Reading all the responses to my original post has got me thinking... I have always tried to keep an open mind - my philosophy on the majority of "life's dilemmas" has been I am x years old, if the best thinkers throughout history haven't found the answer, I would be arrogant to think in my short life I have. That being said, I can see everyone's point. I agree with some and disagree with some. One thing I apparently neglected to mention is that the "oversight" (selling of dowsing rods for massive amounts of plat in an extremely short amount of time) has NOT in any way impacted my playstyle or the game I play in general. I have been playing since the games release and though I do not have any plat capped characters (more because I never sell anything and would prefer to give to someone who needs it), I have logged enough hours to get any gear that I deem necessary for any of my 32 characters. I NEVER buy anything off the AH. I NEVER sell anything in the AH.

People won't read this. Those who think the wand selling was cool assume that those who think poorly about it are poor people who envy those with capped plat. I guess some people just can't grasp the essence of what we're trying to reach. I don't know what goes through their head, I guess it's either too much greed or a lack of conscience.


So why this thread? I was struck by the fact that so many people were openly talking about this oversight. SO many people were talking in general chat about how plat is worthless, how they got rich during the event, or how the AH prices were higher (or even double). It got me thinking. Remember when you acquired your first frost or fire weapon? Some of us even remember when +5 full plate was an aspiration not merely vendor fodder. I have been rereading some of my older TSR novels and it struck me how in the books when a wizard cast a fireball it was looked upon with awe by all around. For those of us who played (or play) pen and paper we saw this firsthand from our DM and the various modules we ran. It seems that the game has moved very much away from that. Now granted it is an online game and they do need to make the game interesting to keep up the revenue... But somewhere along the line I stopped meeting people who enjoyed the spirit of ddo. The groups I run with both high and low are oftentimes intent on getting to the end of the quest or even running through the quest for the xp then either moving on to a quest with more xp or repeating the quest ad nauseum for the xp. Too many times I see people excluded from a group because he/she has a character that doesn't conform with an expected build-type. Recently someone posted that he/she would boot someone if they used a paralyzer in Shavarath instead of a Vorpal.

Reminds me of my first character... I kinda laugh now at the items I dreamed of having. I remember "bid wars" in the AH for a +1 Vorpal something... I was so excited at possibly getting my first vorpal item.


LAST POST: well human nature is to go in with a view and retract what you need to bolster your point and this thread has proven that once again... I had hoped people would step back and view the entire game and its future but instead people seem to only care about how it impacts them.

Exactly. Extract 1 word from your entire post and just build their whole attack against you based on a single word, and just comfortably ignore the rest. Pretty disappointing. At least this event served to show me how petty the majority of the players are, even if there are a good amount of great ones.

Ganak
03-14-2011, 06:15 PM
P.S. In the spirit of offering realistic solutions... how about rewarding those who didn't dump their gems etc into dowsing rods by creating a new Broker- the broker could give out some type of clickie or item to those who still have stuff leftover from the event. Supposedly the event is coming back, so that would only be feasible if the event did not come back or if it could be implemented before the event did return...



This paragraph is still cracking me up.:)

jwdaniels
03-14-2011, 07:34 PM
Asked for thread to be closed. My point has been lost in the mix, so no purpose to thread. Thanks for thoughts all. See you in game:)

Your point wasn't lost, just kind of overwhelmed. You want everyone to lose their plat, and barring that you want the opportunity to make plat yourself. You're not arguing whether the CC event was good or bad for the game or the economy - you're just upset you didn't get paid.

Chai
03-14-2011, 08:00 PM
I actually read all 7 pages... I really don't know why.

So, in summary:

1) The difference between jumping for coins and selling the result for plat and farming gems then selling the result for plat is zero. The one comment that said "as if running from the ship to the tavern was real work" missed the whole farming part of it in CC.

We can tell that I am not the one who missed something, but something was sure missed here. Lets talk about the difference between money changing hands (farming an item and selling it to a player) -vs- creating ALOT of money from nothing (selling dousing rods for play and capping plat on toons)


2) The economy isn't broken. The price for essentials has not changed. Cure/repain pots, haste pots, curse pots, disease pots, poison pots, resist pots, heal scrolls, cure wands, ect have NOT CHANGED IN VALUE.

Incorrect. People seem to think that +1 metalline of pure good is worth 600k plat now.


3) Large ingredients, scales, ect are FREE. They cost nothing. If you want a large devil scale go run Shroud, Amrath or Devil Assault. If you want blue scales run Tor. Prices on the AH mean nothing - ESPECIALLY the top end prices. A large devil scale is worth exactly what you paid for it. If you agree to pay 2M plat for scales then that is what they are worth to you. Personally, I pay 0 plat for mine.

The prices on the AH mean nothing? Everyone is just an overnight armchair MMO economist now aint we?


4) The dowsing rod prices are not a bug. It is not an exploit. They were valued rather highly for the effort it took to get them (and there was effort - see item 1) but nobody broke any rules when selling gems to get them and then selling the rods to vendors. Anyone who thinks this is an exploit also probably things Information is Key should only be worth 300XP. Or Wiz King should only be worth 3000XP. Should people be banned for farming XP from these quests? Some things have more value than others. Deal with it.

You are merely bantering semantics with some antics here. It is what it is, exploit or not, whatever we want to label it, it is bad for the economy over all to allow people to create money from nothing limitlessly. The difference between what happened here and what happened in SWG was the supply of the exploit material went away, and that is the one redeeming factor.

Here you go with your loose definition of farming. Running from the barter chest to the tavern isnt farming. Keeping with your analogy I bet you think that logging in and out to gain xp in 1k increments is farming too eh?


5) Anyone who starts another "Economy is broken" thread should be banned. Permanently.

Anyone who doesnt see that this is bad for the economy is blind to the situation.

Its good that people called attention to it. They went no less overboard than you are going now by using conjecture to interpret the situation in the way it will benefit you the most. The last time Turbine grew a pair and took mass action on something this obvious was right before MOD 9, and so many diapers needed to be changed from all the crying that ensued that they realize now that they cant do something like that without a forum riot.

Had this been SOE, they would have flat out told you not to do it and those who did would have gotten the business end of a banhammer. For some reason Turbine wants to be all secret squirrel about it and not identify something as WAI or bug / exploit, and this allows people to get away with it. In doing so they try to justify it and be all cute doing so. LOL. Seriously. Every time I read one of these "its not doing anything wrong because they didnt say so" posts I think of the Chapelle stand up with the cop pulling his friend chip over for speeding while drunk and chip tells the cop "Sorry officer, .....I didnt know I couldnt do that". :p

LazarusPossum
03-14-2011, 08:32 PM
I've been railing against the advice channel tards that keep saying you ---need--- such and such from the AH to complete such and such quest and this is what I keep saying when I rail against them while they try to talk some newbie into purchasing overpriced stuff from the AH.

I keep trying to get them to use that plat on other stuff like various pots and consumables but I don't think anyone listens.

You think maybe that overpriced stuff might be their own (the channel *jerks*)?

wuliman
03-14-2011, 08:39 PM
First and formost, people weren't creating something from nothing. I farmed the gems-i sold the gems-i sold the dub's-i sold the rods-i made some plat. The time sink farming gems was my currency. I didn't create gems and dub's from thin air, or heavy for that matter. I know this game is based on fantasy, but there wasn't any magic involved.

People "THINKING" +1 met of pg is worth 600k. Like i've said before, lvl 16 group, doing shroud with nothing but masterwork weapons...been there, done that...and i'm not anything special.

Maybe you don't get it, the game got along just fine before the AH was ever an idea. YOU DON'T NEED THE AH TO PLAY THIS GAME. "Everyone is just an overnight armchair MMO economist now aint we?" Why don't you turn that self-rightous finger back at yourself for a second...because you sound an awful like a kettle right now.

I wonder, did you talk to everyone across every server before you started to speak for them? Did you ask every single person if this dowsing rod event affected them in any way? Did it affect they're pot/scroll/ship ammen costs? OH NO! I CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY A LARGE SCALE ON THE AH! WHAT AM I GOING TO DO? DOOOOM, DARN YOU DOWSING RODS, YOU RUINED MY LIFE! I guess you're just gonna have to do the last resort...run shroud, amrath, devils...og, say it ain't so! Don't confuse an enconomy breakdown with mass Lethargy due in part for those who want nice stuff without the work entailed.

Junts
03-14-2011, 08:41 PM
Just ban everybody that accumulated more then 100k plat for 3 days and give the other people some plat or a way to earn easy plat for 3 days. Even if a third of the game gets banned for 3 days oh well. What they did was wrong and might as well let the other people make some money those three days.

Dude, thats crazy: I played the event for 3 hours (total, on the last night). I made one sneak attack hat and sold the rest of my gems into rods for plat because I knew I wouldnt have time to use them to make any other items.

I made well over 100k plat doing that..and I only did the mines quest 3 times.

No one cheated. Turbine vastly unbalanced the rate at which they gave out different parts of the event (in particular, too many gems equalling too many doubloons to ever use for anything useful) meaning that getting dowsing rods was, among other things, the most efficient way of getting that garbage out of your inventory!

Clearly the person who assigned a 2k plat value to something that cost 100 doubloons wasn't thinking - at all. That person, and the one who decided that people would get 15x more doubloons of each kind than they could possibly use to buy anything useful, are the ones responsible for the plat spike. There was no alternative to get rid of them except to destroy doubloons in increments of 50,000.

In 3 runs of the mines thing I made enough gems to have 50,000 gold doubloons after I made my sneak attack hat. What on earth did they think I was gonna use them for??

PopeJual
03-14-2011, 08:43 PM
The only thing that I think is really that important to get from the AH is a DR breaking weapon.

And there are PLENTY of cheap DR breaking weapons on the AH if you aren't all that choosy about the particulars.

search for
metal flamet
metal good
holy silver
silver good

and see what comes up. I guarantee that you'll find something within your budget. Everything else is just a convenience.


That still doesn't mean that the Cove didn't temporarily break the DDO economy even more than it previously was.

DustTheWind
03-14-2011, 08:48 PM
I mean if you are TR'd you have plenty of plat for small things anyways. You know the prices on large green steel ingredients are sky high anyways compared to what you would get for this event. And like most people are already stating once that plat is gone the economy just goes back to normal. Its not a problem unlike maybe an actual flawed game mechanic or other more serious problems.

Jaid314
03-14-2011, 09:01 PM
Its good that people called attention to it. They went no less overboard than you are going now by using conjecture to interpret the situation in the way it will benefit you the most. The last time Turbine grew a pair and took mass action on something this obvious was right before MOD 9, and so many diapers needed to be changed from all the crying that ensued that they realize now that they cant do something like that without a forum riot.

turbine didn't 'grow a pair' and mass ban people for exploiting.

they had a stupid script that mass banned/warned people for existing in the same area as someone who was detected as exploiting.

using that as an example of how to deal with things, if you were logged in and near a vendor while someone was selling wands, or if you were near euphonia while someone was trading for wands, or if you were in a group where someone killed anything in the crystal cove (or wilderness area) at all who then later went to trade in their doubloons for wands, you should also be banned and/or warned.

hopefully, you can see just how mind-numbingly stupid that policy would be. and that would be why turbine unbanned and unwarned people; because they looked at what happened and reached the obvious conclusion that proximity to someone who exploited is not grounds for banning. i would have hoped this would be easy for everyone to grasp, but apparently it isn't.

as to the fact that millions of plat entered the game rapidly: true. millions of plat enters the game from nowhere every day. when you open a chest and you see 500 gold pieces sitting there with your name on it, guess what... that 500 gold pieces didn't come from an established character's money. it was generated out of nothing. it didn't exist until you opened the chest. and when you take that "+10 equivalent" ghost touch light hammer of maiming to the vendor and sell it, guess what? you just created more plat that entered the economy without coming out of any other character's pocket. zomg, you exploiter you! bad player! taking money out of chests and vendoring items! you ought to be ashamed of yourself! the only legitimate way to make money in this game is to sell stuff you find to other players, and if you think otherwise you're clearly a dirty cheater and have no morals! [/sarcasm] (well... actually, i can't guarantee i won't be sarcastic for the rest of the post at all).

seriously. if it was that awesome to get lots and lots of plat, you'd see lots of people farming IQ, day after day, and earning plat.

oddly enough, i've actually seen more loot runs for TEMPEST SPINE then i have seen for inspired quarters.

if you want to farm plat in this game, there are plenty of ways to do it. you can bring hundreds of thousands of plat into the economy every day by selling to vendors if you want to. you don't need some fancy event to do that, it's merely that the event provided more people with loot that had only one remotely appealing use. if they hadn't sold their gems for doubloons for wands for plat, plan B would be... solid fog grenades. so there you have it. lots of people think plat is better than solid fog grenades. a few people think that lots of plat is better than getting exceptionally good loot, as well. fast forward to now, and i bet those same people have next to no plat, and those of us who farmed loot (and ended up with leftover stuff that was worth either solid fog grenades or plat) still have all the gear we farmed.

there is currently a lot of platinum changing hands in the economy. make use of that fact to earn more platinum by selling to other players. if you use the auction house, you'll even be helping to destroy money from the economy.

just don't fool yourself into thinking that plat is the ultimate resource which can be exchanged for whatever you want. if we're in a reaver's fate run and i pull a dreamspitter, nobody is going to be buying it from me. if i'm in a raid with my sorcerer and i pull a piece of gear that i want, no way in hell am i selling it for plat.

for any of the best gear in the game, it most likely isn't available for plat. odds are good, the only people who are going to be accepting plat in trade for the best loot... are the people who farmed the event for plat and missed out on getting items in the first place. because they don't understand that plat is easy to get if you care to spend the time looking.

PopeJual
03-14-2011, 09:15 PM
The last time Turbine grew a pair and took mass action on something this obvious was right before MOD 9, and so many diapers needed to be changed from all the crying that ensued that they realize now that they cant do something like that without a forum riot.

Funniest thing I've seen on the internet all day.

Yaskin_Forrit
03-15-2011, 02:45 AM
I 'bought' and upgraded al the stuff I wanted. then turned left over gems in to dubloons etc. I decided to do this way before the event finished and made thousands (not millions, but it was enough).

Another guild member just missed out - turned all his gems to dubloons just as the event ended - he is not bitter, or upset that he missed out on millions because he got everything he wanted and upgraded it.

You can't just penalise people who spend more time in game than you because they made some money and you didn't!

Azonalanthious
03-15-2011, 03:19 AM
Your summary is not accurate.

I have no problem with what you did. I do have a problem with Turbine for letting such an easy and fast plat source get into the game when the AH fee and Haste pots are pretty much still the only plat sinks in the game.

Ahh, but you disqualified yourself from my statement -- you aren't complaining about those who made a lot of plat, you are complaining about turbine for letting us do it. Different categories. And even if that weren't the case, I did say 'pretty much everyone', not just 'everyone' anyways. ;)

In my mind, there is a very sharp line between complaining that someone accomplished something (in this case made lots of plat), and complaining that something was a poor decision/design (letting us make lots of plat). I'm fine with the later -- I actually agree, it was probably a bad call on turbine's fault and I'm glad they took steps to address it, though I don't think having items that you could sell to make SOME plat was wrong, just the level of plat you could make. But the former case, which many folks seem to be focusing on, I've issues with. Someone (well, many someones) did well and made a lot of plat. GOOD FOR THEM. Congrats! I know of no post or comment or announcement that was made by Turbine saying 'this is wrong, don't do it'. I don't feel it was obvious that this was a mistake on their part -- it was a very limited time birthday event -- having a way to give lots of plat to players during something like that makes absolutely perfect sense to me and isn't something I would have ever questioned if it weren't for the forum drama about it. So I don't think that they should be looked at as doing something wrong for their success.

But I, for example, fit the 'got millions of plat' mentioned in the op (just barely, but 2 mil is millions), or the "100k in 3 days should be banned" that were both mentioned, even though I AM the kind of player the op talks about positively in his edit to his initial post -- I DO do options, I smash crates for potions and pocket change and am always pleased when I see a thrower pop up. And so on and so forth.

Forzah
03-15-2011, 03:26 AM
This problem will solve itself as prices will go down again in a month.

bryanmeerkat
03-15-2011, 03:26 AM
So I made loads of plat then traded it in for a ioun stone a bloodstone and some scales .

You gonna take the plat of the people I brought the stuff off ?

Dysmetria
03-15-2011, 03:38 AM
The people that made that plat should not be banned. They were not exploiting. Turbine does not post exploits or changes to fix them in their patch notes or elsewhere, yet they did post about changing this event. They do lock and delete threads that talk about those exploits and yet this one and many like it are still here.

Selling dowsing rods for platinum was smply a special bonus for the fifth anniversary event. Doing so has been removed for future versions of the event as they will not be celebrating the fifth anniversary for those. Claiming it was an exploit or cheating or a mistake or oversite or whatever is ludicrous as poster after poster has pointed out.

bryanmeerkat
03-15-2011, 03:49 AM
Selling dowsing rods for platinum was smply a special bonus for the fifth anniversary event.


Hehe I dont think any of us beleive this but at the same time it was an oversight on there part , getting rewards and selling those rewards is not against the rules and shouldnt be punished .

cpito
03-15-2011, 03:54 AM
My biggest issue is people saying "Plat is worthless... Max plat is easy to get anyway".

If plat is worthless, please send all of yours to me.

(Hint: They won't do it, because plat is not worthless.)

Yep, plat still doesn't mean much and no, I won't send you any because I prefer to spend it on new players... the only people plat should really mean anything to for the purpose of buying self-sufficient necessities.

Dysmetria
03-15-2011, 04:00 AM
Hehe I dont think any of us beleive this but at the same time it was an oversight on there part , getting rewards and selling those rewards is not against the rules and shouldnt be punished .I could just as easily be correct as those that assume it was somehow an oversight that they failed to see even though it had been reported on Lammania long before the event started up on any of the real servers.

Until Turbine says otherwise no one will ever know for sure.

ladyofevilness
03-15-2011, 04:10 AM
People who find loop holes should be banned, the people who coded the game in such a way creating the loops hole should be reviewed for sub par coding.

bryanmeerkat
03-15-2011, 04:25 AM
People who find loop holes should be banned, the people who coded the game in such a way creating the loops hole should be reviewed for sub par coding.

this is nonsense I am afraid . Where is the line drawn ?

Is it a loophole to sell your end rewards from quests ?

Is it a loophole to farm epics for scrolls with no intention of completing ?

Is It a loophole to not complete Shroud and farm for mats ?

Is it a loophole to windowfarm ?

All these could be considered loopholes and not playing the game as intended , where one person draws the line may be different to another , and unless people are informed that something that is very simple to do and is part of normal game play is an exploit you cant punish them for it .

Purgatory
03-15-2011, 04:30 AM
Yep, plat still doesn't mean much and no, I won't send you any because I prefer to spend it on new players... the only people plat should really mean anything to for the purpose of buying self-sufficient necessities.

what you mean it doesnt mean much?

i use plat all the time to mass items and collect things....or buy things to trade for things im collecting

plat has value it has plenty of value, deepends on how you use it.

If its on the ah, and i want it, i buy it = plat has value...

I'll need to replace that plat if i want to buy more stuff off the ah that i want.

Thrudh
03-15-2011, 01:36 PM
3) Large ingredients, scales, ect are FREE. They cost nothing. If you want a large devil scale go run Shroud, Amrath or Devil Assault. If you want blue scales run Tor. Prices on the AH mean nothing - ESPECIALLY the top end prices. A large devil scale is worth exactly what you paid for it. If you agree to pay 2M plat for scales then that is what they are worth to you. Personally, I pay 0 plat for mine.

Look, I'll admit the economy will recover. That this wasn't a complete catastrophe. But the above is wrong. Large ingrediants do cost something. They cost time.

I used to be able to run the Shroud 10 times, pick up 0-2 large scales, and have enough plat from all the loot I sold to buy an extra large scale (400k plat or so). Now that prices are doubled, I gain less average scales per 10 runs.

There WAS an impact.


4) The dowsing rod prices are not a bug. It is not an exploit. They were valued rather highly for the effort it took to get them (and there was effort - see item 1) but nobody broke any rules when selling gems to get them and then selling the rods to vendors. Anyone who thinks this is an exploit also probably things Information is Key should only be worth 300XP. Or Wiz King should only be worth 3000XP. Should people be banned for farming XP from these quests? Some things have more value than others. Deal with it.

It was the scale. We're talking plat generation 50x faster than normal. If Wiz-king handed out 1,000,000 exp per run, I'm pretty sure everyone would consider that broken... (that's 50x 20k exp... Understand the magnitude of this mistake the devs made).

I guarentee though, there would be a bunch of you farming that quest and claiming "It can't be an exploit... I'm just completing a quest like normal!"

Thrudh
03-15-2011, 01:43 PM
Yep, plat still doesn't mean much and no, I won't send you any because I prefer to spend it on new players... the only people plat should really mean anything to for the purpose of buying self-sufficient necessities.

Planar Gird and ice-cloak and firestorm greaves make me self-sufficient... Those cost plat.

Haste and Displacement clickables from the Shroud make me self-sufficient. I can buy the vale ingrediants for plat.

I still need plat... Not all my characters have Spectral Gloves or bloodstones... I'm still working on a few GS items... I could use plat for large devil scales.

I guarentee plat is not worthless for everyone... Even for people like me who have been around a while (but I don't power-game).

Thrudh
03-15-2011, 01:50 PM
turbine didn't 'grow a pair' and mass ban people for exploiting.

they had a stupid script that mass banned/warned people for existing in the same area as someone who was detected as exploiting.

using that as an example of how to deal with things, if you were logged in and near a vendor while someone was selling wands, or if you were near euphonia while someone was trading for wands, or if you were in a group where someone killed anything in the crystal cove (or wilderness area) at all who then later went to trade in their doubloons for wands, you should also be banned and/or warned.

hopefully, you can see just how mind-numbingly stupid that policy would be. and that would be why turbine unbanned and unwarned people; because they looked at what happened and reached the obvious conclusion that proximity to someone who exploited is not grounds for banning. i would have hoped this would be easy for everyone to grasp, but apparently it isn't.

he said MOD 9, not update 9... He's talking about an exploit a couple of years ago where people learned they could talk to some guy in an explorer area over and over and get exp everytime... People leveled to 20 in a day using that...

Turbine banned a BUNCH of people... There was mass crying on this forum...

Most of us said, "Duh! Pretty obvious that was an exploit..." Others said, "NO way! We were just playing normally! Talking to the guy is not an exploit! Unfair to punish us for a dev mistake!"

I really expected this one to go the same way... Going from 1 to 20 in one day is obviously broken... Going from 0 plat to 4.3 million plat in a few hours is obviously broken. You guys are lucky... There was definitely a chance this could have been considered an exploit. Turbine decided it wasn't. They make the rules... and the Dude abides by their rules.

So no exploit this time. Be careful next time though.

(Edit: Of course, if you're careful, you may miss out on a great opportunity like THIS time... so you can be screwed if you take advantage, and screwed if you don't... don't you just LOVE Turbine's fully documented and transparent exploit policy?)

eonfreon
03-15-2011, 01:59 PM
I don't care why or how people made more than they should be "allowed" to.

The fact is Turbine probably made a mistake. The fact that people took advantage of it is just human nature. Yes, it is Turbine's responsibility to out and out say if something can or can't be done, especially when it is something that can be done by so many people. They either should have said something or they should have done something.

To do anything punitive after the fact now would not be a good idea.

I can say this opinion as someone who didn't even hear about the dowsing rods and wouldn't have really cared anyway.

While yes, these events could "harm" me because all the prices have gone up but my personal wealth has not, therefore my ability to simply purchase items for convenience sake has gone down considerably.

The reason it doesn't bother me is because plat doesn't really drive the game for me. It is simply a shortcut to get some items quicker. Even though I am now "poor" in comparison, I am little affected because time to me is time playing a game. It's what I want to do anyway.

patang01
03-15-2011, 02:06 PM
I rather have Turbine concentrate to getting u9 up on Lamannia and live in the beginning to mid April than chasing people who took advantage of a mess Turbine created themselves.

Shortly after people found out and just after the event ended mats were kind of inflated in the AH, but they're going down except for LDS which have always been absurdly priced. Now mats are down to normal pricing, which I think have more to do with supply (since people are playing shroud again) than plat inflation.

What I've noticed is also that some people can now afford to buy stuff I'm auctioning away. For the same price I did before. I bought a raven's sight scroll for 700k - I had the money (not because i sold any rods just been frugal). maybe that was way overpriced but I had the money, wanted the item and it was rare enough for me to see it in the AH.

I've also spent about 200-300 on mats to make another green steel item, all those mats priced as they used to be.

The only things that doesn't seem to go down are LDS. Don't know why - but everything else seems to be reaching and have reached reasonable levels.

bigolbear
03-15-2011, 02:07 PM
And what about those of us who played the event properly in the spirit of the event and simply cashed in the left overs afterwards?

I ran it with my guildies, i ran it in pugs, i lead teams and i followed. I played all the roles and developed the tactics for my self.
I made a total of 37 items in that event (most tier 1 some 2 and 3).
Towards the end of the event i sold my remaining gems and dubloons and traded them in for plat via the highest value items available - the rods.
I also made gass bombs and sumoning gems.

I came out with about 1 mil plat but i truly did play the event as it was intended, i dont feel i exploited anything so should i be punished for cashing in my leftovers? The simple fact that the devs chose to associate a plat value with the event items gave us the option of playing the event for plat rather than items.

Imagine if you will how much those 37 items would cost in plat on the AH before the event, now compare that to how much plat people made. im guessing the items would be worth many times more than the plat cap if they were unbound and sellable.

Please consider that the items i made there have meant that i will not be looking for explensive items to fill those slots. (bloodstones, ioun stones etc)

Whichever reward you chose (items or plat) the event was one massive giveaway and has effected both supply and demand in numerous ways.

I'd also like to point out that if i had made the choice to grind the hell out of inspired quarter, the vale and shavarath until i hit ransack i could have made that character up to the plat cap simply from selling the trash loot to brokers in the time the event was on. Not my playstyle but im well aware that if i ever NEED plat its easily attainable.

Vint
03-15-2011, 02:09 PM
he said MOD 9, not update 9... He's talking about an exploit a couple of years ago where people learned they could talk to some guy in an explorer area over and over and get exp everytime... People leveled to 20 in a day using that...

Turbine banned a BUNCH of people... There was mass crying on this forum...

Most of us said, "Duh! Pretty obvious that was an exploit..." Others said, "NO way! We were just playing normally! Talking to the guy is not an exploit! Unfair to punish us for a dev mistake!"

I really expected this one to go the same way... Going from 1 to 20 in one day is obviously broken... Going from 0 plat to 4.3 million plat in a few hours is obviously broken. You guys are lucky... There was definitely a chance this could have been considered an exploit. Turbine decided it wasn't. They make the rules... and the Dude abides by their rules.

So no exploit this time. Be careful next time though.

(Edit: Of course, if you're careful, you may miss out on a great opportunity like THIS time... so you can be screwed if you take advantage, and screwed if you don't... don't you just LOVE Turbine's fully documented and transparent exploit policy?)

Thakns for being concerned about my soul. I see this as you didnt do it because you were scared that you would get banned. Now that everyone has made trillions of plat your pi$$ed off that you didnt get in on it. I could be completely wrong and you are the true second coming. Either way thank you for the advanced warning.

Entelech
03-15-2011, 02:19 PM
Almost nothing makes an rpg more boring to play than having a ton of money. If you can easily buy anything you want you have nothing to work for anymore.

I disagree.

In EverQuest and DDO, the two MMORPG's I've extensively played, platinum was worthless except for starting new lowbies or for buying consumables. The real gear is still something you earn, and after you've been a broke lowbie on your first two or three characters, being a broke lowbie is far more of an issue than the ennui caused by a swimming pool of platinum in your portable hole.

Dysmetria
03-15-2011, 03:19 PM
I see this as you didnt do it because you were scared that you would get banned. Now that everyone has made trillions of plat your pi$$ed off that you didnt get in on it.That is how I see most of the people uselessly whining about this nonissue as well. I didn't even plat cap any of my characters during the event, but I sure have made many millions of plat since off those that did, and all these people that feel they missed out or chose to not partake during the event could have since as well.

IronClan
03-15-2011, 05:21 PM
Thakns for being concerned about my soul. I see this as you didnt do it because you were scared that you would get banned. Now that everyone has made trillions of plat your pi$$ed off that you didnt get in on it. I could be completely wrong and you are the true second coming. Either way thank you for the advanced warning.

Wow what a great job of completely missing his point, almost have to intentionally miss it to miss it that badly.

But again the people who are most defensive about this issue have their reasons to be defensive I guess :)

voodoogroves
03-15-2011, 05:39 PM
- You couldn't cap plat in a few hours spent actually making items; You could play a ton and make a bunch of items and then cash out some things after the fact

- You could in fact farm JUST the gems and make a ton of plat



I really expected this one to go the same way... Going from 1 to 20 in one day is obviously broken... Going from 0 plat to 4.3 million plat in a few hours is obviously broken. You guys are lucky... There was definitely a chance this could have been considered an exploit. Turbine decided it wasn't. They make the rules... and the Dude abides by their rules.


How many people did this?



And what about those of us who played the event properly in the spirit of the event and simply cashed in the left overs afterwards?

How many people did this?



Reduce plat of those who took advantage of the Dowsing rods:)

Thread subject and title is that anyone who took advantage of the rods should be punished.


SELL ONE ROD AND UR EVIL !!!!!11!!!



But again the people who are most defensive about this issue have their reasons to be defensive I guess


I see plenty of righteousness too.

IronClan
03-15-2011, 05:46 PM
Ahh, but you disqualified yourself from my statement -- you aren't complaining about those who made a lot of plat, you are complaining about turbine for letting us do it. Different categories. And even if that weren't the case, I did say 'pretty much everyone', not just 'everyone' anyways. ;)

Actually I would catagorize the majority of people who've complained up to this point as being unhappy that Turbine left this going without fixing it or saying "don't do it". That certainly describes my thread titled: "what I want to know is" where I ask that question and make statements that CLEARLY describe my opinion and IMO reasonable statements like "regardless of if this has long or only short term effects on the economy"...

And yet despite a reasonable and non accusatory tone, in which I didn't even USE the word "exploit", I got droves of very hostile and defensive replies from people who just wanted characterize make up stuff and be insulting without bringing anything to the discussion.

Likewise Thrudh's post that contains this quote:
"(Edit: Of course, if you're careful, you may miss out on a great opportunity like THIS time... so you can be screwed if you take advantage, and screwed if you don't... don't you just LOVE Turbine's fully documented and transparent exploit policy?) "

Which contains ZERO accusations (that I can see), YET for some reason was immediately attacked by two people who seem to have reacted to it all out of proportion... Once again very defensive and hostile...

Geez you'd think at least the defensiveness would have cooled off now that it's obvious none of them are getting banned.

Oh and BTW I don't mean people who sold dowsing rods when I say "none of them are getting banned", because I sold dowsing rods, and so did Thrudh according to one of his posts, I mean; the people who are obviously so defensive and hostile about it (for some reason).

BTW Sold two +2 Con tomes today for 450k each... Yep "just like old times" nothing wrong at all with the economy :rolleyes:

Chai
03-15-2011, 05:52 PM
I have a better idea. Pixelated in game public shaming!!! Forget about editing accounts of excess plat, I want to see people sitting in front of the AHs and bank areas with some big ol signs.

http://blstb.msn.com/i/56/48DAB929AAF84C7CF1B511DC9439C.jpg

PopeJual
03-15-2011, 05:53 PM
BTW Sold two +2 Con tomes today for 450k each... Yep "just like old times" nothing wrong at all with the economy at all :rolleyes:

Well, I'll say that there's ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with the economy when I'm selling an item.

...it's just when I'm buying one. :)

Dysmetria
03-15-2011, 09:03 PM
Geez you'd think at least the defensiveness would have cooled off now that it's obvious none of them are getting banned.

Oh and BTW I don't mean people who sold dowsing rods when I say "none of them are getting banned", because I sold dowsing rods, and so did Thrudh according to one of his posts, I mean; the people who are obviously so defensive and hostile about it (for some reason).The people I have seen being hostile and defensive are those like the OP and others that keep insisting selling rods was somehow an exploit and doing so somehow "borked" the economy and that the people that did so should be banned or suspended or stripped of gold or whatever.

They are the ones that keep making threads like this one trying to defend their flawed arguments that selling rods was somehow an exploit, despite logic, common sense, and even the developers demonstrating otherwise.

Ziindarax
03-15-2011, 09:09 PM
We can tell that I am not the one who missed something, but something was sure missed here. Lets talk about the difference between money changing hands (farming an item and selling it to a player) -vs- creating ALOT of money from nothing (selling dousing rods for play and capping plat on toons)



Incorrect. People seem to think that +1 metalline of pure good is worth 600k plat now.



The prices on the AH mean nothing? Everyone is just an overnight armchair MMO economist now aint we?



You are merely bantering semantics with some antics here. It is what it is, exploit or not, whatever we want to label it, it is bad for the economy over all to allow people to create money from nothing limitlessly. The difference between what happened here and what happened in SWG was the supply of the exploit material went away, and that is the one redeeming factor.

Here you go with your loose definition of farming. Running from the barter chest to the tavern isnt farming. Keeping with your analogy I bet you think that logging in and out to gain xp in 1k increments is farming too eh?



Anyone who doesnt see that this is bad for the economy is blind to the situation.

Its good that people called attention to it. They went no less overboard than you are going now by using conjecture to interpret the situation in the way it will benefit you the most. The last time Turbine grew a pair and took mass action on something this obvious was right before MOD 9, and so many diapers needed to be changed from all the crying that ensued that they realize now that they cant do something like that without a forum riot.

Had this been SOE, they would have flat out told you not to do it and those who did would have gotten the business end of a banhammer. For some reason Turbine wants to be all secret squirrel about it and not identify something as WAI or bug / exploit, and this allows people to get away with it. In doing so they try to justify it and be all cute doing so. LOL. Seriously. Every time I read one of these "its not doing anything wrong because they didnt say so" posts I think of the Chapelle stand up with the cop pulling his friend chip over for speeding while drunk and chip tells the cop "Sorry officer, .....I didnt know I couldnt do that". :p


About the metalline weapons: well before this event, people had been charging 300-600k, and sometimes even a million platinum for a +1 metalline weapon. The event just made metalline pg prices more noticeable as more people were able to afford some of the more expensive things on the AH.

What the devs REALLY need to do is regulate the maximum price that one should be allowed to put on an item at any given point in time.

Bargol
03-15-2011, 09:09 PM
Honestly....why is this still being discussed and argued about.....it happened, turbine seemed to ignore it at first, then recently dealt with it. It is not for any player to decide or demand how turbine conduct bannings or other punishments.

Just relax and stop harping on it, because all I keep hearing is wah...I didn't get a chance to do it so everyone that did should be flogged.

Take a deep breath and move on.

conryorion
03-15-2011, 09:37 PM
Why bother? My concern over farming never manifested. I played the event and got some good armor and items, I farmed it for items. I got what I wanted out of it. Some people have lots more time to play, than you or I. Let them. They will make super duper uber toons. Life goes on, these people will have time to improve their characters in multiple ways, not just from farming an event. Sometimes people "farm" a quest and level up very quickly. This has an affect on the game style they choose to play and will influence others as well. Do we need to police them because they enjoy the game in a manner that differs from our own? Does it really affect us in such a way that we have to concern ourselves much? Play, have fun, don't sweat the small stuff.

Vint
03-15-2011, 11:44 PM
Wow what a great job of completely missing his point, almost have to intentionally miss it to miss it that badly.

But again the people who are most defensive about this issue have their reasons to be defensive I guess :)

Nothing to be defensive about. I just think it is funny for people to come cry and cry and cry on the forums about trivial things.

If they enconomy is that bad and you need two Large scales to craft guess what you can do? Run the quest. Before the AH ( I was here for ) if I wanted a weapon for a lowbie either I got it from a guildie or I had to Grind content. It's that simple. If running a Shroud for an ingredient you need si to painful and you rely on the AH for everything anyways then I dont know what to tell you.

P.S. I have done 43 runs on my barb looking for the encrusted ring to no avail. Is this the place I should come cry?

Teech
03-16-2011, 07:02 AM
I see plenty of righteousness too.

Glad you do. More righteousness is good!

right·eous·ness   
–noun
1.the quality or state of being righteous.
2.righteous conduct.
3.the quality or state of being just or rightful: They came to realize the righteousness of her position on the matter.

right·eous
–adjective
1.characterized by uprightness or morality: a righteous observance of the law.
2.morally right or justifiable: righteous indignation.
3.acting in an upright, moral way; virtuous: a righteous and godly person.

LazarusPossum
03-16-2011, 07:27 AM
Glad you do. More righteousness is good!

right·eous·ness   
–noun
1.the quality or state of being righteous.
2.righteous conduct.
3.the quality or state of being just or rightful: They came to realize the righteousness of her position on the matter.

right·eous
–adjective
1.characterized by uprightness or morality: a righteous observance of the law.
2.morally right or justifiable: righteous indignation.
3.acting in an upright, moral way; virtuous: a righteous and godly person.

Debate fail. You're taking the definition of literal a bit too far.

You should know that taken in context, he most likely meant this:

Definition of SELF-RIGHTEOUS
: convinced of one's own righteousness especially in contrast with the actions and beliefs of others : narrow-mindedly moralistic

Teech
03-16-2011, 07:41 AM
Debate fail. You're taking the definition of literal a bit too far.

You should know that taken in context, he most likely meant this:

Definition of SELF-RIGHTEOUS
: convinced of one's own righteousness especially in contrast with the actions and beliefs of others : narrow-mindedly moralistic

I didn't realise I was debating.
I was expressing my opinion that more righteousness is good.
I would think no one would object to that.

IronClan
03-16-2011, 07:43 AM
Nothing to be defensive about. I just think it is funny for people to come cry and cry and cry on the forums about trivial things.


And I think it's suspicious that you need to characterize everyone who doesn't like the new doubled prices as "crying" (and other inflammatory trolling) because apparently you can't discuss it without needing to do that.

To me I think things that hurt the game and put newer players at a disadvantage by doubling prices on good stuff are completely justified to complain about. Even if it didn't hurt me personally that bad.

OTOH I can't think of any justification for people to respond to reasonable complaints with constant mis-characterizations, thread derailing, and outright insults.... You know like needing to characterize them as "crying" or "whining"... Nope I can't think of any justification, but I can think of a MOTIVATION for why they might be so defensive...

Unfortunately "I got mine, I am all that matters, sucks to be you" doesn't go over well as a counter argument, so I guess they haven't got a lot of other options :D

P.S. I am not including the OP of this thread, I don't support that, it's just not possible. I am (just like yourself) responding in a general, overall sense to the bulk of these threads, most of which DON'T call for anyone to be banned, anyone to have their plat deleted, or refer to plat farmers as "exploiters". (but who none the less; are attacked constantly by suspiciously defensive people who don't have an argument except "stop whining")

IronClan
03-16-2011, 07:56 AM
Debate fail. You're taking the definition of literal a bit too far.

You should know that taken in context, he most likely meant this:

Definition of SELF-RIGHTEOUS
: convinced of one's own righteousness especially in contrast with the actions and beliefs of others : narrow-mindedly moralistic

LOL debate fail? So you're saying that when debating you should take someones failed insult and grant them the favor of assuming they meant to insult them correctly?

Terebinthia
03-16-2011, 08:28 AM
And what about those of us who played the event properly in the spirit of the event and simply cashed in the left overs afterwards?

I ran it with my guildies, i ran it in pugs, i lead teams and i followed. I played all the roles and developed the tactics for my self.
I made a total of 37 items in that event (most tier 1 some 2 and 3).
Towards the end of the event i sold my remaining gems and dubloons and traded them in for plat via the highest value items available - the rods.
I also made gass bombs and sumoning gems.

I came out with about 1 mil plat but i truly did play the event as it was intended, i dont feel i exploited anything so should i be punished for cashing in my leftovers? The simple fact that the devs chose to associate a plat value with the event items gave us the option of playing the event for plat rather than items.

Imagine if you will how much those 37 items would cost in plat on the AH before the event, now compare that to how much plat people made. im guessing the items would be worth many times more than the plat cap if they were unbound and sellable.

Please consider that the items i made there have meant that i will not be looking for explensive items to fill those slots. (bloodstones, ioun stones etc)

Whichever reward you chose (items or plat) the event was one massive giveaway and has effected both supply and demand in numerous ways.

I'd also like to point out that if i had made the choice to grind the hell out of inspired quarter, the vale and shavarath until i hit ransack i could have made that character up to the plat cap simply from selling the trash loot to brokers in the time the event was on. Not my playstyle but im well aware that if i ever NEED plat its easily attainable.

This is where I'm at, too. I didn't farm for gems, and I didn't plat cap any toon anywhere, not even close. I ran mainly on Khyber, and mainly picked up base level items - upgraded I think two items to Tier 3, and made another Greater Bold Trinket (fingers crossed it gets fixed). I then made as many Air ele gems as I could, because I think they'll be superfantastic for TRing. The shards were the limiting factor for me. In the end, I was glad I could have a way to cash in the golds so they didn't clog up my inventory - I wasn't loading my bank toons up with them for sure! For me, it's a shame they've completely made them unsellable rather than reducing the plat value to a reasonable level. I guess that's probably a decision based on what was easier in terms of bug fixing...

Side note: I do hope, if the new crafting system uses a similar mechanic, the same rationale does not apply - I'm no crafting system expert but I would have thought it advantageous to have crafted items tradeable.

I guess this time I'll just throw them away. Would be lovely to have an alternative to use them for, or to crunch them down to silvers and coppers for more air eles, but I guess that's not likely for this encore. Swapping gems between levels would have been lovely for getting the lowbie gear I wanted, rather than using my neglected level 11 wiz to get the right colour, but hey. It was a fun event, I got a couple of nice items to play with epic wise and all was good.

Probably the place I will feel it most is Orien, in a good way. The plat I made will allow our little static guild to have an airship, when we've earned the renown for it, and that will be sweet :) . I also stocked up on vanilla thiefy items from the brokers, since both my toons have trapsmithing skills.

Perhaps I'm speaking from the perspective of a player who rarely if ever frequents the AH (apart from the occasional Funk, I'm not a fan of Coal Chamber), but it really won't have a lot of impact on me. The ranting just sounds like sour grapes to me, to be honest.

Azonalanthious
03-16-2011, 12:55 PM
Actually I would catagorize the majority of people who've complained up to this point as being unhappy that Turbine left this going without fixing it or saying "don't do it". That certainly describes my thread titled: "what I want to know is" where I ask that question and make statements that CLEARLY describe my opinion and IMO reasonable statements like "regardless of if this has long or only short term effects on the economy"...

And yet despite a reasonable and non accusatory tone, in which I didn't even USE the word "exploit", I got droves of very hostile and defensive replies from people who just wanted characterize make up stuff and be insulting without bringing anything to the discussion.

Likewise Thrudh's post that contains this quote:
"(Edit: Of course, if you're careful, you may miss out on a great opportunity like THIS time... so you can be screwed if you take advantage, and screwed if you don't... don't you just LOVE Turbine's fully documented and transparent exploit policy?) "

Which contains ZERO accusations (that I can see), YET for some reason was immediately attacked by two people who seem to have reacted to it all out of proportion... Once again very defensive and hostile...

Geez you'd think at least the defensiveness would have cooled off now that it's obvious none of them are getting banned.

Oh and BTW I don't mean people who sold dowsing rods when I say "none of them are getting banned", because I sold dowsing rods, and so did Thrudh according to one of his posts, I mean; the people who are obviously so defensive and hostile about it (for some reason).

BTW Sold two +2 Con tomes today for 450k each... Yep "just like old times" nothing wrong at all with the economy :rolleyes:

Eh, I partially agree. Like most online 'debates' in my experience, there are a handful of moderates on both sides who are worth listening too (I like to think I'm in that category, as are you and several others in this thread). Then there are the extremists who are busy yelling at everyone that isn't THEIR brand of extreme, including other extremists, and all moderates regardless of side. And they are also on both sides of the debate and only worth scrolling past.

Dysmetria
03-16-2011, 01:44 PM
Eh, I partially agree. Like most online 'debates' in my experience, there are a handful of moderates on both sides who are worth listening too (I like to think I'm in that category, as are you and several others in this thread). Then there are the extremists who are busy yelling at everyone that isn't THEIR brand of extreme, including other extremists, and all moderates regardless of side. And they are also on both sides of the debate and only worth scrolling past.This this isn't a debate. It is a handful of "extremists" trolling with the inherently flawed arguments that people who sold dowsing rods somehow cheated & exploited, that they "borked" the economy, and/or that they should somehow be punished, and a bunch of us telling them they are full of bull and to stop uselessly whining about nothing in thread after thread like this one.

The "moderates" are the people egging the trolls on with "Well it did mess up the economy somewhat," or "It was wrong to make plat off of selling rods," and otherwise trying to defend the troll's flawed arguments.

Teech
03-16-2011, 02:03 PM
This this isn't a debate. It is a handful of "extremists" trolling with the inherently flawed arguments that people who sold dowsing rods somehow cheated & exploited, that they "borked" the economy, and/or that they should somehow be punished, and a bunch of us telling them they are full of bull and to stop uselessly whining about nothing in thread after thread like this one.

The "moderates" are the people egging the trolls on with "Well it did mess up the economy somewhat," or "It was wrong to make plat off of selling rods," and otherwise trying to defend the troll's flawed arguments.

Nothing is ever a debate to someone who refuses to see anything but their own point of view, and proceeds to 'argue' his/her pov by flaming and namecalling anyone who disagrees.

elujin
03-16-2011, 02:04 PM
This this isn't a debate. It is a handful of "extremists" trolling with the inherently flawed arguments that people who sold dowsing rods somehow cheated & exploited, that they "borked" the economy, and/or that they should somehow be punished, and a bunch of us telling them they are full of bull and to stop uselessly whining about nothing in thread after thread like this one.

The "moderates" are the people egging the trolls on with "Well it did mess up the economy somewhat," or "It was wrong to make plat off of selling rods," and otherwise trying to defend the troll's flawed arguments.

this

fuzzy1guy
03-16-2011, 02:09 PM
Entire topic is fail.

How do you decide who took advantage of the event and to what degree.

What about those who never entred into the cove once. Yet sold off a great deal of ingreds or other items for huge inflated prices.

Their money is 'clean'. Do you still take it away. They still ended up with the ill gotten cove cash. Yet never touched the cove directly for that cash.

No? How is that money any less 'tainted'. it couldn't have been done without the cove. yet they still got rich off the cove cash just as much as those who farmed directly. even easier in fact.


It was just too widespread and too much time to do anything about it. Should have been fixed right when it was noticed... Should have been fixed when it was reported on lamania before it ever went live..

It wasnt. And now it's far too late to even attempt to fix it.

Let it go.

LazarusPossum
03-16-2011, 02:14 PM
LOL debate fail? So you're saying that when debating you should take someones failed insult and grant them the favor of assuming they meant to insult them correctly?

Slough off a man's failed insult, and he feels smarter for a day. Teach a man how he failed in his insult, and he'll be smarter for life.

IronClan
03-16-2011, 02:15 PM
This this isn't a debate. It is a handful of "extremists" trolling with the inherently flawed arguments that people who sold dowsing rods somehow cheated & exploited

If you keep saying this over and over I'm sure you'll manage to convince yourself sooner or later :D

Malky
03-16-2011, 02:18 PM
Glad you do. More righteousness is good!

I actually prefer the Pure Good suffix...

Teech
03-16-2011, 02:21 PM
I figure I might as well explain my point a little.

I agree that there is no debate. For the simple reason that no parameters have been set as to what the topic of the debate may be. There is no propositional or oppositional statement to defend. And no agreed upon definition of terminology for there to be any coherent argument that everyone would be satisfied with.

There are far too many points of view and they all get mixed up and convoluted.
- The OP thinks that those who 'took advantage of the dowsing rods should be punished'. This already has flaws in what 'took advantage' means.
- Some don't think that these people should be punished, but do think that it is an exploit and that turbine should acknowledge it.
- Some think that whether or not it is an exploit, it was unintended by the devs and so players should not have taken advantage of it.
- And so on.

So, yes. There is no debate. It is unrealistic to expect any conclusion when everyone was arguing on different points anyway. The way in which some people approached their arguments (namecalling, flaming, etc) didn't help either.

It was interesting to see different points of view, some of which, in my personal opinion, were more defensive than others, but inevitably, these threads seem to draw one or two posters who tend to get personal and then everything goes downhill from there.

EKKM
03-16-2011, 02:29 PM
I figure I might as well explain my point a little.

I agree that there is no debate. For the simple reason that no parameters have been set as to what the topic of the debate may be. There is no propositional or oppositional statement to defend. And no agreed upon definition of terminology for there to be any coherent argument that everyone would be satisfied with.

There are far too many points of view and they all get mixed up and convoluted.
- The OP thinks that those who 'took advantage of the dowsing rods should be punished'. This already has flaws in what 'took advantage' means.
- Some don't think that these people should be punished, but do think that it is an exploit and that turbine should acknowledge it.
- Some think that whether or not it is an exploit, it was unintended by the devs and so players should not have taken advantage of it.
- And so on.

So, yes. There is no debate. It is unrealistic to expect any conclusion when everyone was arguing on different points anyway. The way in which some people approached their arguments (namecalling, flaming, etc) didn't help either.

It was interesting to see different points of view, some of which, in my personal opinion, were more defensive than others, but inevitably, these threads seem to draw one or two posters who tend to get personal and then everything goes downhill from there.


It's a good attempt to bring rationality to the forums but I think you're sailing into the wind.

Irinis
03-16-2011, 02:50 PM
I made 1 mil plat on one server, when plat is pretty much worthless anyway, and it didn't actually help me. It was a waste of time.

But now after all this fuss, there's NOTHING to do with the extras, and that's worse than a little extra plat in the economy.

I already have 500 diamonds left from last time and I think 300+ or 500 emeralds... still had doubloons left... and doubloons only stack in piles of 10,000 so what to do with the rest? Is it all just WORTHLESS now because of all the complainers?

I have most of the items I needed from the event, so won't bother much on round 2. Maybe get a couple of things to t3 that were only t2 before. Keeping around 6 items that are pretty much worthless is just taking up inventory space I can't really spare and now I don't even get plat for it? At least with plat I could buy heal scrolls.

Dysmetria
03-16-2011, 05:10 PM
Nothing is ever a debate to someone who refuses to see anything but their own point of view, and proceeds to 'argue' his/her pov by flaming and namecalling anyone who disagrees.It isn't my point of view I am seeing, but rather that of the developers.

If selling dowsing rods was an exploit then they would have deleted this thread and all others detailing that exploit, just as they have every other thread detailing exploits. If it was an exploit they wouldn't have posted the change to the cove in the patch notes, just like they have not posted any exploit fixes in patch notes in the past. If it was an exploit then they would have already punished those that used such an exploit, instead of ignoring theads like this one asking for such punishments for weeks now since the event in question ended.

If it was even an unintended mistake on their part then they would not have waited till the event ended to make said changes. They would have fixed the issue before the event ever hit the live servers, after it was reported multiple times on the test server, or at least fixed it when people first started complaining about this nonissue during the event preview. Instead they simply deleted the troll threads on the topic for the course of the 5th anniversary celebration and let everyone farm all the plat they wanted to.

Now that the event has passed they let these threads stay, because they do not detail any exploits, and because they are in regards to a nonissue. They removed the plat bonus that was included with the 5th anniversary celebration just as the bonus to loot, exp and renown won't be included with that event in the future either.

People can cry "exploit" till they are blue in the face. It is just more attempts to troll with this nonissue, at least as far as the developers and anyone with a simple grasp of logic and common sense are concerned.

Dysmetria
03-16-2011, 05:20 PM
If you keep saying this over and over I'm sure you'll manage to convince yourself sooner or later :DI don't need to convince myself of the obvious. The people trolling with this nonissue are the ones that keep saying it was an exploit over and over, but unfortunately they will never convice the developers of that.

Jaid314
03-16-2011, 05:32 PM
If it was even an unintended mistake on their part then they would not have waited till the event ended to make said changes. They would have fixed the issue before the event ever hit the live servers, after it was reported multiple times on the test server, or at least fixed it when people first started complaining about this nonissue during the event preview. Instead they simply deleted the troll threads on the topic for the course of the 5th anniversary celebration and let everyone farm all the plat they wanted to.

i wouldn't go that far.

i definitely think it was unintended. i don't think it was a big deal, and i don't think it was an exploit, but if it was intended for us to get easy plat, i think they would have just put plat in the barter box.

personally, i just wish they'd put *something* in the barter box for gold doubloons that is actually worth carrying around.

Teech
03-16-2011, 06:46 PM
It isn't my point of view I am seeing, but rather that of the developers.

That is your point of view on what the developers are thinking.

Nobody knows for certain what the devs think because they have not commented.

NaturalHazard
03-16-2011, 06:54 PM
It appears that those who play the game a lot (and thus probably have most of the gear they need) got even more wealthy as a result of the Dowsing Rods epidemic. So why not reduce the plat of those who so obviously got millions of plat selling the rods? I wouldn't be averse to a complete wipeout of any plat acquired by selling dowsing rods. I realize this is not realistic but perhaps the mere thought of it as a possibility will discourage future conduct of this sort.

Those who play less spent the time in the event getting stuff to make a piece of gear (or two). While those who had oodles of time used the time to take advantage of an obvious oversight. As a result now those who actually use the auction house to buy an item they need (that they don't have the time to spend farming said item) can't afford the item because those who took advantage of the oversight are now willing to spend more plat on item(s) (which incidentally they probably already have on numerous alts).

Fixing the oversight by eliminating future selling is hardly going to remedy those who now suffer from the inflated prices caused by the oversight. I am sure you can come up with a more creative solution... you know who took advantage either even the playing field by taking away from them or conversely doing something for those who didn't/couldn't take advantage.

I have been playing since the game went live and will continue but I am disappointed by your solution, generally you have been much better about fixing such mistakes...

P.S. In the spirit of offering realistic solutions... how about rewarding those who didn't dump their gems etc into dowsing rods by creating a new Broker- the broker could give out some type of clickie or item to those who still have stuff leftover from the event. Supposedly the event is coming back, so that would only be feasible if the event did not come back or if it could be implemented before the event did return...




UPDATE:
Reading all the responses to my original post has got me thinking... I have always tried to keep an open mind - my philosophy on the majority of "life's dilemmas" has been I am x years old, if the best thinkers throughout history haven't found the answer, I would be arrogant to think in my short life I have. That being said, I can see everyone's point. I agree with some and disagree with some. One thing I apparently neglected to mention is that the "oversight" (selling of dowsing rods for massive amounts of plat in an extremely short amount of time) has NOT in any way impacted my playstyle or the game I play in general. I have been playing since the games release and though I do not have any plat capped characters (more because I never sell anything and would prefer to give to someone who needs it), I have logged enough hours to get any gear that I deem necessary for any of my 32 characters. I NEVER buy anything off the AH. I NEVER sell anything in the AH.

.

your a casual player with 32 charactors? :eek:.

Papa_Junk
03-16-2011, 07:07 PM
really.. really???


this thread is still going??


I think every new post on this long, hard kicked, dead horse topic might actually be killing one of our little beloved crystal gatherers.

repeat after me.. " there is no spoon... "

fuzzy1guy
03-17-2011, 04:29 AM
Kobold not afraid, kobold has an epic spoon!

Dysmetria
03-17-2011, 06:03 AM
That is your point of view on what the developers are thinking.

Nobody knows for certain what the devs think because they have not commented.The developers' view on exploiting has remained unchanged for 5 years.

Were selling rods an exploit, they would have deleted this and all the other threads detailing how to do the exploit, and taken action against all the people that used the exploit. Just like they have with every other exploit for the last 5 years.

Instead they have ignored the threads on this nonissue, just as they have every other thread falsely crying exploit for the last 5 years. They did not comment on any of those other threads either, there was no need to do so then nor is there now.

I can understand why some people will always consider this an exploit however, as they chose to believe it was one originally and changing their minds now would be admitting to themselves they made a multi-million plat mistake. Some people have difficulty accepting they were wrong, and prefer to live in denial.

What I do not understand however is why they choose to publicly demonstrate their purposeful ignorance with post after post in thread after thread like this one.

Teech
03-17-2011, 07:44 AM
The developers' view on exploiting has remained unchanged for 5 years.

I am amazed that someone who joined in Apr2010 knows the devs view for the past 5 years. I do not know the devs view because I am not a dev.

I only know that the mods deleted threads about how to make plat via selling dowsing rods while the cove was open. After the cove was closed, these posts were no longer deleted and the method through which such plat could be farmed was removed from the game.

I have made no claims about exploits and yet your post in reply to mine was full of complaints about 'those who talk about exploits', which further goes to show how easy it is to have a convoluted discussion where everyone holds different points of view.

I'd appreciate it if you quoted a relevant post when you want to address the issue of what is or is not an exploit as I personally have no interest in discussing what I believe is a non-issue.

Dysmetria
03-17-2011, 03:33 PM
I am amazed that someone who joined in Apr2010 knows the devs view for the past 5 years. I do not know the devs view because I am not a dev.

I only know that the mods deleted threads about how to make plat via selling dowsing rods while the cove was open. After the cove was closed, these posts were no longer deleted and the method through which such plat could be farmed was removed from the game.

I have made no claims about exploits and yet your post in reply to mine was full of complaints about 'those who talk about exploits', which further goes to show how easy it is to have a convoluted discussion where everyone holds different points of view.

I'd appreciate it if you quoted a relevant post when you want to address the issue of what is or is not an exploit as I personally have no interest in discussing what I believe is a non-issue.I am talking about the stance the devs take regarding exploiting. Their policy. The parts they have told us, and shown us, and demonstrated time and again over the years. You do not have to be a dev to understand their view on it, any more than you have to be a dev to understand their view on other aspects of this game. Their actions and words make it clear, at least to those who wish to see.

I've been talking about "those who talk about exploits" since before you started repeatedly replying to me. That is after all what this thread is about. I haven't complained about anything however, I have nothing to complain about. If you feel it is a non-issue, then feel free to stop replying.

wiglin
03-28-2011, 10:31 AM
I did not make any plat from the dousing rods, mainly because I did not know about it or even think to try to sell the items, I was to busy making what I wanted. However I do not agree with the mass removal of anything from those that did. Plat in this game is the ever changing currency, like all currency its value changes.

I keep a very low amount of currency typically at any time on my characters, instead I try to trade my plat for items that carry a more constant value, weather that be red scales or high value scrolls. This way as more plat enters the economy I have not lost to inflation as what I paid for red scale will now bring more plat. This of course could change if what I have invested in goes down due to influx of a better item, but it is way more consistent then keeping lots of plat.

The value of plat is ever changing just look at rmt site and watch how the value goes up and down. I keep a watchful eye on rmt sites as it lets me know what all the rich kids are willing to pay in real money for items, so I have better idea what I can negotiate for in trades.

DDO is first mmo I have ever played were I do not have to go out of my way to farm currency. It is by far the easiest mmo for making making I have played. In FFXI you would have to farm for weeks to be able to afford a piece of gear that was required to not be considered a gimp. Not the case in ddo.

prophet1
03-28-2011, 10:37 AM
hey i am lazy n if i can buy 1000 motes or 4/5 scrolls instead of farming hell ya im for it let em make plat , saves me time of farming so yea there making plat but i buy the stuff like the risia event put it on every low lvl weapon i can buy of use n sell it for lots , it evens out in the end

floating
03-28-2011, 10:47 AM
To the op- this is never going to happen. The plat economy in any case has slowly started to re-balance itself and should return to normal in the long run assuming no future screw ups.

stille_nacht
03-28-2011, 10:52 AM
IMO, it is highly unlikely that anyone had more than one character with capped plat, because the majority of wealth was always in tradeables anyway. Anyone with >1 char with maxed plat most probably took advantage of the event.

i think this might be used as a criteria for plat reductions/drains

i think that the economy is rebalancing though, as most high end transactions were in ingredients, while mid range transactions werent effected much because of a lower proportion of exploiting, so something as controversial as a plat removal will be unlikely.

Illiain
03-28-2011, 11:06 AM
"A fool and his money are soon parted." ~ Benjamin Franklin

People will either spend all their newfound cash on the AH, loosing 30% to the void, or they will hold onto it and it will never see the light of day again.

Either way, it will disappear from the economy quickly and things will stabilize. If there are inflated prices now, eventually they will drop because no one is willing to spend that much money on items over a prolonged period of time.

Westerner
03-28-2011, 11:11 AM
deleted

doubledge
03-28-2011, 12:11 PM
http://img853.imageshack.us/i/thesearenotth1286068042.jpg
f
http://img853.imageshack.us/i/thesearenotth1286068042.jpg made a nice photoshop, but this link's not working.

stille_nacht
03-28-2011, 03:10 PM
IMO, it is highly unlikely that anyone had more than one character with capped plat, because the majority of wealth was always in tradeables anyway. Anyone with >1 char with maxed plat most probably took advantage of the event.

i think this might be used as a criteria for plat reductions/drains

i think that the economy is rebalancing though, as most high end transactions were in ingredients, while mid range transactions werent effected much because of a lower proportion of exploiting, so something as controversial as a plat removal will be unlikely.

just to be clear, was i negged for saying that it is highly unlikely for people to have multiple plat cap toons, or that i thought the economy was rebalancing pretty well, or because i thought that a plat removal was unlikely?

PopeJual
03-28-2011, 03:16 PM
just to be clear, was i negged for saying that it is highly unlikely for people to have multiple plat cap toons, or that i thought the economy was rebalancing pretty well, or because i thought that a plat removal was unlikely?

I didn't neg you, but if I had to guess, I'd say it was because you appeared to suggest that people should have their money taken away just because they have multiple plat capped characters when there were a fair number of people who had multiple plat capped characters before anyone had even heard of the Cove.