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View Full Version : Enough is enough. Fix the buffs.



SpiritBoy
03-12-2011, 02:47 AM
The game has been out for 5 years. Unless I'm mistaken here (I haven't played for 5 years), this means the buff bar has been broken for 5 years. Being able to see all buffs is crucial for some classes/some raids in the game.
A paladin can't see when his buffs are running out (and they will be running out). An AC tank tanking a raid boss can't tell the other members when to refresh his barkskin/bard's song/etc. You can't tell when rage is out, if it out of screen.
I don't think the fix should be that hard. Just fix the boundary box (aka make it scale with screen size).
This is one of the few things that annoy every time I run in a group with my pally, and it's not even a bug.

bryanmeerkat
03-12-2011, 07:50 AM
The game has been out for 5 years. Unless I'm mistaken here (I haven't played for 5 years), this means the buff bar has been broken for 5 years. Being able to see all buffs is crucial for some classes/some raids in the game.
A paladin can't see when his buffs are running out (and they will be running out). An AC tank tanking a raid boss can't tell the other members when to refresh his barkskin/bard's song/etc. You can't tell when rage is out, if it out of screen.
I don't think the fix should be that hard. Just fix the boundary box (aka make it scale with screen size).
This is one of the few things that annoy every time I run in a group with my pally, and it's not even a bug.

well at one stage there where not so many buffs in the game , so was less of an issue , the amount of buffs has changed though so it needs to be sorted out

Cairo
03-12-2011, 08:00 AM
I agree, but let's be honest. At 20, (since we're talking about raid tanking), it's only really an issue if you have full ship buffs. You don't need full ship buffs.

Let's take a Barbarian. A 20 Barb could use Divine Glory/Str/Con/Dhakaani Vigor/Sentinels Bulwark/Blessing of the Three Dragons and MAYBE Charisma/Phiarlan Inspiration for the +1 to Intimidate if he uses Intim.

That's ~6 buffs for a non-intim raid tank. Dont need Barkskin unless youre an AC intimitank, so 1 less buff. Many raid bosses have TS, so no need for blur.

Bard songs, Rage, Rage, Madstone, Haste, GH, Resist/Protect, Haste Boosts, DMs, etc.. If you go without Ship buffs at all, you shouldnt ever see the list get cut off.

But it DOES need to be fixed. Ship buffs need to be consolidated.

Lerincho
03-12-2011, 08:01 AM
It has not been broken for 5 years. Who would of thought at launch there were enough spells you could cast on someone to not have something be visable on the buff bar. Does it need to be adjusted now that it is accuring and more regularly? Possibly. Does it deserve the attitude in which the title suggests in the thread? No.

Take a step back, deep breathe, and as rationally, instead of demanding like an infant wanting the toy from the cereal box.

NinjaNeed
03-12-2011, 08:10 AM
When I am tanking on my 20 barb I take every buff I can get. If the healer goes down for some reason then I may need to swig a Silver Flame pot while waiting for him to be ressed. Doing so without +wis/int buffs would cripple me and cause a wipe, this way I am "just" hit by -10 to each stat. and am able to carry on hitting the boss while the healer(s) get back into shape and start healing me again.

Cairo
03-12-2011, 08:30 AM
When I am tanking on my 20 barb I take every buff I can get. If the healer goes down for some reason then I may need to swig a Silver Flame pot while waiting for him to be ressed. Doing so without +wis/int buffs would cripple me and cause a wipe, this way I am "just" hit by -10 to each stat. and am able to carry on hitting the boss while the healer(s) get back into shape and start healing me again.

If you refuse to tank till you are fully buffed with every spell available, then you shouldnt be tanking, and your group shouldnt be enabling you. Thats like people who want Jump, GH, Blur for Shroud Part 1

TigrisMorte
03-12-2011, 08:32 AM
When I am tanking on my 20 barb I take every buff I can get. If the healer goes down for some reason then I may need to swig a Silver Flame pot while waiting for him to be ressed. Doing so without +wis/int buffs would cripple me and cause a wipe, this way I am "just" hit by -10 to each stat. and am able to carry on hitting the boss while the healer(s) get back into shape and start healing me again.
that's an exciting and challenging way to play! If you ever actually have a chance to fail it is not only no fun it is unfair! Gorilla through!

broolthebeast
03-12-2011, 08:51 AM
I agree, but let's be honest. At 20, (since we're talking about raid tanking), it's only really an issue if you have full ship buffs. You don't need full ship buffs.

Let's take a Barbarian. A 20 Barb could use Divine Glory/Str/Con/Dhakaani Vigor/Sentinels Bulwark/Blessing of the Three Dragons and MAYBE Charisma/Phiarlan Inspiration for the +1 to Intimidate if he uses Intim.

That's ~6 buffs for a non-intim raid tank. Dont need Barkskin unless youre an AC intimitank, so 1 less buff. Many raid bosses have TS, so no need for blur.

Bard songs, Rage, Rage, Madstone, Haste, GH, Resist/Protect, Haste Boosts, DMs, etc.. If you go without Ship buffs at all, you shouldnt ever see the list get cut off.

But it DOES need to be fixed. Ship buffs need to be consolidated.

Too bad you cant choose what buffs other people give you. 98% of the ranger population on khyber think it is their god given duty to give you long strider, barkskin, jump, and mass camo because well they have a blue bar and they have to use every spell point at the start of the quest reguardless of it's helpfull to you or annoying to you.

Balkas
03-12-2011, 09:03 AM
It is pretty silly that you can't see all your buffs.

der_kluge
03-12-2011, 09:11 AM
If redesigning the UI is too much of a pain, just make the boxes half the size. That should suffice.

Cairo
03-12-2011, 09:15 AM
Too bad you cant choose what buffs other people give you. 98% of the ranger population on khyber think it is their god given duty to give you long strider, barkskin, jump, and mass camo because well they have a blue bar and they have to use every spell point at the start of the quest reguardless of it's helpfull to you or annoying to you.

LOL, yes, I'll give you that :)


I just had a thought about this while making breakfast - 1) let us cancel buffs with a Ctrl-Right Click and 2) Change Mass Protection from Elements to 1 buff icon, which absorbs ALL elemental damage up to 240hp. If you take 10 fire and 15 cold and 9 acid, there'd be 206 left. This would be a small buff for the spell itself, and do away with what, 4 buff icons? How often are you taking multiple elemental damages at the same time anyway? Not often, esp since everyone has Resist cast on them.

JasonJi72
03-12-2011, 09:21 AM
If redesigning the UI is too much of a pain, just make the boxes half the size. That should suffice.

Good idea. I would also take this opportunity to (once again) suggest that there be a scroll bar in the status menu. If somebody has full ship buffs, then you can't even see what their classes are.

NinjaNeed
03-12-2011, 09:39 AM
EXACTLY what JasonJ said. It is not about knowing my healers will die it is about being ready should they die.

Practical info about my barb, lv20 pure with 1 PL barb. I have hate tanked VoD and ToD once only, on neither occasion did any healer die but I was ready to self heal and keep agro for a few seconds IF they did. The same as I never once had to use my own cure curse pots but I still made sure I had a full stack on me "just incase".

I agree with the opening post that the buff bar needs to be enlarged and doubt it would be hard to do programming wise.

Shade
03-12-2011, 09:43 AM
If redesigning the UI is too much of a pain, just make the boxes half the size. That should suffice.

You aren't understanding the issue. They get cut off at a certain point, no matter your screen size. Having the same amoutn of boxes, that are so small you cant see them wouldnt change the issue. They'd still get cut off.

The solution would be fixing the cut off bug, and for ppl with smaller screens: allowing multiple row,s or allow them to selectively hide certain buffs.

Shade
03-12-2011, 09:48 AM
It has not been broken for 5 years.

Yes it has. 6 years if you count beta.

Perhaps your playstyle never include a buff heavy layout back in the day.. Mine always has. I've ran into this issue as early as mod1... I recall putting up screenshots, and ppl going - wow, how do you have so many buffs they are cut off, ive never seen that. and I believe most ppl didn't..

I played the game a bit differently then most. That shouldn't mean it should not of been fixed back then.

One of the "NEW" things causing the issue is set bonuses having a permanent spot on your screen that they dont really need to be there. Some having mutiple icons like tod sets for ppl with t3 of said set pre. ppl with multiple sets can waste as many as 5 icons permanently, with no buffs applied.

Hendrik
03-12-2011, 09:50 AM
You aren't understanding the issue. They get cut off at a certain point, no matter your screen size. Having the same amoutn of boxes, that are so small you cant see them wouldnt change the issue. They'd still get cut off.

The solution would be fixing the cut off bug, and for ppl with smaller screens: allowing multiple row,s or allow them to selectively hide certain buffs.

And that is 28.5 icons.

Malison
03-12-2011, 09:51 AM
If you have access to something that makes you more likely to accomplish what you're trying to do, why wouldn't you use it?

Fix the bar, because you can't fix the fools who tell you to get less buffs or the fools who give you those buffs.

danthurston
03-12-2011, 09:57 AM
I can see ALL my buffs, go to specsavers.

brought to you by pointlessforum timewaster

~jradnut
03-12-2011, 09:58 AM
Take a step back, deep breathe, and as rationally, instead of demanding like an infant wanting the toy from the cereal box.

I dont know about this...some of those toys are just AWESOMEZ!!1!!

Ravoc-DDO
03-12-2011, 09:59 AM
Group the buffs into separate scalable & user customizable bars, and let the user position these bars wherever they please.

For further ease of use, let these separate bars be chainable into longer bars, and maybe add a snap to grid for all UI elements as well.

Alavatar
03-12-2011, 12:54 PM
Simple solution (bandaid): Reverse the orientation of the buff bar. Make it so that new buffs are added to the right side instead of the left. That way people that cast short-term buffs can at least see when it will be running out.

It doesn't fix the whole problem, but it at least fixes the issue most people have with the problem.

chodelord
03-12-2011, 01:58 PM
solution is 3 buff bars all of which can be user toggled and have the orientation changed like action bars

bar 1 = buffs you personally cast + debuffs
bar 2 = buffs other party members cast on you
bar 3 = environmental (shavarath gh) and ship buffs

also if you cast a buff or have a buff cast on you and the buff is on your spell bar a timer should appear on it

that way you can instantly know if the buffs you can cast are active

ALSO there is no excuse for not having every icon in the game be totally unique, turbine should just let users submit icons and if they are picked the artist gets 25tp or something

Templarion
03-12-2011, 07:24 PM
/signed

Of course, you must remember people who don't have high resolution. Make it optional how many buffs can be showed at once.

TigrisMorte
03-13-2011, 08:26 AM
"I need acid resist."
"it's spider venom."
"just throw the buffs when asked!"
"whatever" (casts protection from energy.)
"I said acid resist! no dps useless @&#*!"
(recalls, drops group.)

floating
03-13-2011, 08:56 AM
If you refuse to tank till you are fully buffed with every spell available, then you shouldnt be tanking, and your group shouldnt be enabling you. Thats like people who want Jump, GH, Blur for Shroud Part 1

you do understand he's talking about silver flame pots right?

Aaxeyu
03-13-2011, 09:05 AM
If you refuse to tank till you are fully buffed with every spell available, then you shouldnt be tanking, and your group shouldnt be enabling you. Thats like people who want Jump, GH, Blur for Shroud Part 1

"Taking every buff I can get" does NOT equal "I refuse to tank until I'm fully buffed with every spell available".

Epic fail.

KillEveryone
03-13-2011, 09:46 AM
Honestly, I really don't see why it is such a big deal to see all your buffs.

I've had my buffs scroll off into netherland but I knew what I had because I paid attention to what was being given.

While it would be nice...I guess...to see everything, I don't think this is very important to fix. There are a multitude of other problems that really need addressed...critters that are held still moving is more important I feel.

Now....

If there becomes a revamp of the UI, then I could see them fix this problem.

There also needs to be....

Ability to adjust a person's voice so that I don't go deaf from those with it turned up and also being able to boost someone that has theirs set to a whisper.
Map improvements so that the leader can say group up on a particular dot which is a different color than the rest of the dots because the leader was able to assign that color.
Improvements to be able to designate teams beyond blue and red so that I can set up certain indivividuals/teams to certain jobs and tell others that if they are not assigned to a particular color, they are not part of a particular team and they should not be hitting that critter until the rest of the group is at that point.
I would also like to be able to lock the hotbars in their position and still be able to swap stuff around on my bars. Currently I have to lock everything down and use a ctrl+something to unlock the bars then swap stuff around then lock everything again and this is rather annoying....but I've adapted and just ignore the annoyance.

Seamonkeysix
03-13-2011, 09:58 AM
Honestly, I really don't see why it is such a big deal to see all your buffs.

I've had my buffs scroll off into netherland but I knew what I had because I paid attention to what was being given.
.

In general, I agree it isn't important to see all the buffs people give you, but I do agree that for some classes, it does pose a problem to not see some of your boosts because your buff bar is too long. An example is manyshot timer. Sure, I can see when I am not "manyshotting" anymore, but to be efficient, I like to be able to see it and switch back to twf ASAP, rather than wait for the lag on the bajillion arrows damage results to go away to and go "ok...guess my manyshot is up". Same with my pally and zeal. When I can't see when my zeal has expired, it's just a spitball guess that I need to cast it again. Sometimes I haven't had zeal for a minute or sometimes I recast when I probably have 15 seconds left.

Maybe it shouldn't be a top priority, but in some cases, it actually would be nice. I think the solution of putting the newest buffs to the right would be nice, if somehow revamping the whole bar wouldn't work.

Morlen
03-13-2011, 10:20 AM
Here is my obligatory fix response:

Adjust the buff bar by duration, having the shortest duration on the right side. This way we know when our short term haste/rage/divine favor/ect. buffs are about to run out and we don't have to worry about the 50 minutes we have left on ship buffs.

KillEveryone
03-13-2011, 10:29 AM
In general, I agree it isn't important to see all the buffs people give you, but I do agree that for some classes, it does pose a problem to not see some of your boosts because your buff bar is too long. An example is manyshot timer. Sure, I can see when I am not "manyshotting" anymore, but to be efficient, I like to be able to see it and switch back to twf ASAP, rather than wait for the lag on the bajillion arrows damage results to go away to and go "ok...guess my manyshot is up". Same with my pally and zeal. When I can't see when my zeal has expired, it's just a spitball guess that I need to cast it again. Sometimes I haven't had zeal for a minute or sometimes I recast when I probably have 15 seconds left.

Maybe it shouldn't be a top priority, but in some cases, it actually would be nice. I think the solution of putting the newest buffs to the right would be nice, if somehow revamping the whole bar wouldn't work.

With those types...at least with boosts...I can see the timer on my hotbar.

I don't know if you can see it with manyshot but I would suspect that if you clicked the box in options...not sure which part of options...you can see cooldowns on the hotbar. That is why I don't see the problem.

I can understand a little with other spells that have a short duration. Maybe I'm just running with the right people that keep that part up.

TigrisMorte
03-13-2011, 02:33 PM
...paid attention ...just ignore the annoyance.

That sir is contrary to the DDO forum way!
Every little thing is supposed to result in insults, threats, and rage quitting!
Now get with the program and stop being reasonable and understanding!
Next you'll claim you are just thankful to play a game you enjoy!

:D

Soljargon
03-13-2011, 03:37 PM
The game has been out for 5 years. Unless I'm mistaken here (I haven't played for 5 years), this means the buff bar has been broken for 5 years. Being able to see all buffs is crucial for some classes/some raids in the game.
A paladin can't see when his buffs are running out (and they will be running out). An AC tank tanking a raid boss can't tell the other members when to refresh his barkskin/bard's song/etc. You can't tell when rage is out, if it out of screen.
I don't think the fix should be that hard. Just fix the boundary box (aka make it scale with screen size).
This is one of the few things that annoy every time I run in a group with my pally, and it's not even a bug.

They could just make the buff icons smaller so more fit on the screen. Or maybe allow people to CHOOSE what buff icon size they want in settings.

Antheal
03-13-2011, 08:28 PM
If the buffs are there on the ship, just waiting for you to click them, why NOT take them?

Asketes
03-14-2011, 10:55 AM
If the buffs are there on the ship, just waiting for you to click them, why NOT take them?

do you really need, much less want, screen cluttering buffs that help your spell casting on your barbarian?

TigrisMorte
03-14-2011, 06:39 PM
do you really need, much less want, screen cluttering buffs that help your spell casting on your barbarian?

You'll need to refrain from using logic or no one here shall understand your comments.;)

Asketes
03-14-2011, 06:52 PM
You'll need to refrain from using logic or no one here shall understand your comments.;)

is that what I was doing wrong?


after all these years, I thought I been doin goood :cool: