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MrWizard
03-09-2011, 10:44 PM
As I remember, Amrath was in development late into the dead time. I remember it on risia waaaay before it ever came out. I think it was not finished and forgotten at that time.

It is your only high level content and I would like to point out just some things I notice. I hope other players will sound off on some things too.

Not a complaint thread, more of a 'did you intend this'? or just not finished?
It is your 'high level content' and I think it could use a looking at.



Sins of Attrition:

It seems like the extra chests where you weaken a mob boss are not working as was intended. The first one can only be opened if you have the item and the others just show up and can be opened item or not. I assume you originally meant to just have one available? Or the first one is bugged?

The iron golems only activate one or two at a time and most just run towards a wall or down the hallway. Their AI is bonkers.

Talking to the prisoners is odd since they text does not go away after you free them..nor do the prisoners for a few seconds. You have to manually close the chat box. This chat box issue is the same with the first room devil (for the badge). His text box has to be manually closed....while an ambush is attacking you.

The swinging blade traps are not visible from most angles, even when they are hitting you.



New Invasion:

This first unfinished item pertains to Bastion of Power as well. The mobs 'notice' you when they obviously were not intended too. All mobs in invasion hear you on the other side of the wall and start running all over the place to get to you. Red nameds sometimes will mean running all over looking for their chest after a kill. This makes red alert a pain for no reason.
Obviously, the same is true of bastion of power.

End fight has many issues with the curse explosion happening for no reason (no portal opening, nothing, just goes off like it was active, even though it was not).

Shrine is sometimes at end, sometimes not. I imagine it was supposed to be for freeing prisoners.

If you wipe at end boss, it may or may not bring you back up.

Freeing prisoners seems to require a high unlock, yet the chest near the drop to the end fight is openable with a knock wand (I rolled a 2 and it opened)?

I hate the beholder in there... :)



Bastion of Power

Lighting runes at end fight, etc, sometimes work, sometimes bug. As intended or unfinished? Not getting that chest is a bummer when you do everything right.

As noted with Invasion, the mobs are activated on any nearby rooms including the ones above you....above you just by jumping up. Portals and all. Makes this a pain with red alert sometimes most of the whole dungeon...even though you are killing everything.

Quartermaster, as noted about the AI spawn, comes from 'nowhere' sometimes and to get his chest you have to look high and low sometimes since he spawned when you where no where near him (pathwise).

Still working on defining a problem with killing 'alert' guards before they can open a portal. Many portals spawn with no guards at all, just by walking in a room (assume you need a guard to activate it?)


Genesis Point

There have been times after killing the huge mobs at the stairs (where the giant shrines are) I have been running back to the portal to go upstairs and the entire dungeon respawns...everything...as if we just walked in. All the trolls by the prisoners, all the orthons, all the casters, a large amount of extra spawns...this only happens once in a while, but it does happen.

I assume some of the levers in the upstairs were supposed to be used for something? So many for no reason....

I have questions as to the logic of the mass teleport at the water in the maze, but will leave that alone as I am tired.



Tower of Despair

Okay, I do not have much here...others might though.

Part 1...many times we are thrown from the jailer even though he does not do any animations (this happens a lot to me as I always seem to have to deal with him.)

Part 2....really? Was it supposed to be a kite fest test?

Part 3.... Power word stun, blind? On high level toons? That is like a 20th level caster using 'scare'.

Dropping in the lava and you are out of quest...? bummer, intended?



LOOT

ToD sets. Most if not all of these have bugs that seriously crimp their use...definitely, as quoted by a dev, a database issue. Losing all boosts by switching an item, etc. This is a known bug and makes the 'highest level' sets all 'bugged' for years now.

Please fix that stuff.



The outdoor area is rather cool, don't really have anything I noticed out there as far as AI or WAI.

Rian
03-09-2011, 11:02 PM
Yup, I've always enjoyed the devils of amrath, maybe add content so we're helping the opposing force to the devils of shavarath to restore the balance? Or maybe add a raid where we have to defeat the opposing force's leader because he's going to make a kamakazi move and is nuts in the head like the Stormreaver :p. Maybe have quests on both sides because while the devils are evil they are not absolutely ignorant, there must be balance in Shavarath, the Plane of the Battleground! Or perhaps some other cool quest arc, just brain storming here...any rain yet?

And seriously, who's seen who the devils are fighting? They can't ALLLL be dead...unless they just stink that bad at fighting :D

TheDearLeader
03-09-2011, 11:33 PM
I love the Amrath content pack, its my favorite in game.. but in your post, you clearly identify the multiple things "off" with this pack. I've experience most of them myself, and can say that its annoying at best to see these things so obviously weird.

One thing about Bastion - Mobs a floor above you aggro-ing *may* be WAI, as many floors are a metal mesh-work sort of thing.
More on Bastion - If you kill the alarm guards prior to them getting anywhere remotely near the alarm, portals won't spawn. But the first time an alarm guard is capable of getting to an alarm, all alarms will go off simply by walking near them. I've actually had the first alarm go off on me when I DDoored back to the entrance due to this. We cleared it, killed the alarm-puller, and still will have to do with a Portal and nasties.

Also, ToD : What about the Part 2 Optional that never made it to Live? I'd really dig seeing that finished and implemented .

Genesis Point : Killing the Devil General (name eludes me at the moment, its the Horned Devil to the East) does not stop the constant respawns of mobs. Very annoying trying to loot as wave after wave of troop is coming after you.

SardaofChaos
03-09-2011, 11:34 PM
And seriously, who's seen who the devils are fighting? They can't ALLLL be dead...unless they just stink that bad at fighting :D

From the skeletons scattered around and the bits and pieces of story I've scrapped together, I believe they are fighting the archons. That is all I can conclude at this time.

TheDearLeader
03-09-2011, 11:40 PM
Yup, I've always enjoyed the devils of amrath, maybe add content so we're helping the opposing force to the devils of shavarath to restore the balance? ----

And seriously, who's seen who the devils are fighting? They can't ALLLL be dead...unless they just stink that bad at fighting :D

The Devils are fighting the Archons and Demons for power. Hence why we see multiple Archon corpses throughout the Battlefield. Also, Bastion of Power is specifically about helping the Demons infiltrate the Bastion. As the Demons assault head on, we, the PCs, sneak in a back route and invade, and take out many of their security checkpoints. The Demons don't know this - they just know they're winning. Running into the Marilith at the end.. well, these things happen sometimes.

Remember we're guests of the Yugoloth in Shavarath. The Yugoloth are mercenaries and merchants, traveling between the planes of existence and profiting in any way that they can, including creating turmoil that furthers their profit. I believe they are Neutral Evil, the Malefactor, by alignment. They profiteer (for the moment) by helping to cripple the Devils, because they are currently the faction in power on this Plane.

So... now you know, and knowing is half the battle. G.I. Joe! :)

Edit: I'll also mention that you meet two live Archons: The Mad Archon downstairs, and one trapped in Wrath of the Flame.

Rian
03-09-2011, 11:49 PM
From the skeletons scattered around and the bits and pieces of story I've scrapped together, I believe they are fighting the archons. That is all I can conclude at this time.

Ok, so the Archons, add them, let us fight the devils so they're winning, we realize it's a mistake if we keep going and try to balance it out, boom, new content and story line. Maybe even make it so that one quest actually spawns NPCs that fight along side us after completing it. maybe I should start a seperate thread and stop stealing MrWizard's spot light...

Fix some stuff in the other quests, people are happier. (I've personally never run them enough to notice all the errors except for all the aggro in Bastion.)

And clean up the battle field, i'm tired of stepping on Archon skeletons...I hear the hell hounds aren't too picky about their food.

But yes, Amrath needs some fixing, waited so long for it and all we got was 4 main quests that not everyone enjoys to run, 2 side quests and a raid that isn't all that hard, I like Velah more, it was cool the first day but now...eh...:(

Sarisa
03-10-2011, 07:56 AM
Golems almost always tend to have wonky aggro AI. It's even in the PnP rules source, they have a chance at going berserk or ignoring their original orders. I still don't know what they're after heading north.

In New Invasion, you can sometimes zone in and get a spam of 5-10 kills worth of guild renown due to cubes eating things and golems going berserk on the nearest moving object near them. Same thing with Wizard King.

The grated floors I feel are working as intended. Aggro through door or gates is fine as well. Aggro through solid walls in Bastion and New Invasion is a pain. Antimagic aura through solid walls is even worse. This solid wall aggro is why you can fight the Quartermaster (Bastion) or the named Orthon (New Invasion) nowhere near its chest, due to their teleport and having no aggro range throughout the dungeon.

The end fight of New Invasion causes a lot of lag. With the lag, what you see on your screen and what the server sees is totally different, so you can be over top of a trapped area as seen from the server but not on your screen. Sometimes, the server instruction to update the trap display doesn't happen, but the trap will still go off. With DI, I went into the middle and there is a trap there as well, and the boss MAY be able to trigger it if he runs through the middle.

I assume the extra levers in Genesis point are either for unfinished areas (it is FAR easier than any of the other Amrath flagging quests, and gives disproportionately large amounts of experience when compared to the other three), or they're for tricking you into spending time and resources (dealing with respawns) figuring out what they're for.

Part of the problem with the levers in the boss fight in Bastion is the physics bug when you hit your head on an angled object. You get sent flying uncontrollably sideways. The "sweet spot" seems to be standing just inside the point of the "star" and moving forward about halfway up. It's not a Bastion issue really, but more that annoying physics bug that affects areas throughout the game (Coal Chamber...).

The Shadows can be tanked, it just takes good equipment and experience to do so.

The dialog in Sins is probably a bug. The prisoner chest (DC is 1) may or may not be intentional.

With low graphics settings, I have no issue seeing the guillotine traps from any angle. If it's an issue with higher graphics settings, it's a bug.

And finally, just adding on to TheDearLeader's correct information...

In other settings, the Yugoloth (originally Daemons, which were distinct from Demons) were much more openly Neutral Evil. They made themselves out to be arms dealers and mercenaries during the Devil/Demon wars in those settings version of "Hell". Their real goal is manipulating the Devils and Demons into being balanced and keep the wars going, until the time was right for them to destroy them and take control. Then they would lead the fight against the forces of good.

Eberron's more "grey" alignments makes it a little tougher to see, but they still retain much of that same goal in Shavarath. Right now, they want to maintain the balance. Someday, they want to take control, but only once they can weaken the other three races enough.

Astraghal
03-10-2011, 08:06 AM
I love Amrath, I've spent a lot of time there.

A lot of people seem to ignore it though.

This would have been a good area to make some nice named loot drop, outside of the set items.

The favor reward is nice too.

Getting the contingent of people who see Vale as end game playing in Amrath would make for higher quality pugs.

MrWizard
03-10-2011, 08:29 AM
Don't forget, the planscaller has two other options that sound like areas they were going to do also....

this whole pack seems like they gave up as they got it done (well enough to go live) and just left it...took over a year to come off risia I think.
Then the free to play took over...and they have never come back to fix it up.

shame too. Fix some of the aggro bugs and a lot of the quests would be fun to run for more people.

Sarisa
03-10-2011, 08:35 AM
This would have been a good area to make some nice named loot drop, outside of the set items.


Mysterious Bauble -- Trinket Equip
Minimum Level: 18
Bound to Character on Acquire - Exclusive
Acquired From: The Weapons Shipment - Wiki - Compendium - P2P
(End Chest)
Major Mnemonic Aid (CL:15, 1/1), Wizardry VI
One of the most in-demand and farmed high level items there is.

Renard's Elegant Hat -- Helmet Equip
Minimum Level: 18
Bound to Character on Acquire - Exclusive
Acquired From: Wrath of the Flame - Wiki - Compendium - P2P
Feather Falling, Underwater Action, Whirlwind Absorption (25/10 rest)
Not great, but a fun little swap-in item. Useful for shield users (Lorrik's using Clerics) around Air Ele's.

Shimmering Arrowhead -- Trinket Equip
Minimum Level: 18
Bound to Character on Acquire
Acquired From: The Weapons Shipment - Wiki - Compendium - P2P
(End chest)
Crippling, Seeker +4, Attack Bonus +2
Not as good as a Bloodstone, but still useful for non-primary-melee classes like Clerics.

The Mad Lute -- Weapon Equip
Minimum Level: 18
Bound to Character on Equip
Acquired From: The Weapons Shipment - Wiki - Compendium - P2P
(Optional Chest)
+5 Great Club (Base dmg: 2d8), Metalline, Proficiency: Greatclub, Thunderclap, Superior Resonance VI, Greater Spell Penetration VI, Major Sonic Lore
This is a fun toy for a Bard, and helps land Otto's Irresistible Dance more easily. Especially good for splashed 16 bard Warchanters, as it helps make up some of your lost caster levels when trying to bypass SR.

Nothing exceptional, besides the Bauble, but still useful named items. They're available in the easy quests as well.

Not to mention many of the belts/necklaces have great use as clickies.

Nyoko's Necklace -- Necklace Equip
Minimum Level: 18
Bound to Character on Acquire - Exclusive
Acquired From: Genesis Point - Wiki - Compendium - P2P
Invisibility (CL:15, 3/3 rest), Constitution +6, Ninja Spy Set Bonus
45 total minutes worth of Invisibility.

Morah's Belt -- Belt Equip
Minimum Level: 18
Bound to Character on Acquire - Exclusive
Acquired From: Bastion of Power - Wiki - Compendium - P2P
Jump (CL:15, 3/3 rest), Constitution +6, Tumble +15, Thief Acrobat Set Bonus
+30 jump, 15 minutes. Normal clickies are 1 minute, +10 jump. The only other ways to get that is via House P favour (30 minutes, +30, lost on death) or Epic Dustless Boots (20 minutes, +30, have fun getting the scroll). And this item's version of it can be used as needed rather than having to prepare for it by getting the House P buff.

Draconic Necklace -- Necklace Equip
Minimum Level: 18
Bound to Character on Acquire - Exclusive
Acquired From: Bastion of Power - Wiki - Compendium - P2P
Greater Heroism (CL:11, 1/1 rest), Constitution +6, Purple Dragon Knight Set Bonus
Not as useful as a Planar Gird, due to the Gird's lower level limit, but this is usually a bit easier to get ahold of if you do ToD regularly.

Beethoven
03-10-2011, 08:41 AM
Aggro rules: the problem isn't specific to Amrath quests but inherent to the general AI of mobs. It just is amplified in Genesis point (and for Golems in Sins) due to the design of the quest.

Sins: I always found it odd how the one chest requires a specific item. My assumption is that it is supposed to be a (possible) additional chest for choosing the toughest boss (you get to fight an additional named Devil and a Horned Devil at the end). However, in this case it'd have made sense for the chest to always be there if that option is chosen.

The rest; it's hardly new, specific to Amrath or otherwise unusual that some optionals (or optional chests) are sometimes there and sometimes they aren't. Sins is not so different here than other quests, say, for example Wizard King.

Asketes
03-10-2011, 08:41 AM
don't forget that in most of the quests that running them properly lets you experience dungeon alert orange regularly and sometimes red. THIS IS WHILE DOING THE QUEST NORMALLY.


the increased difficulty of everything but getting harried is great. getting harried multiple times is extremely annoying (in this instance where i'm not doing anything to generate a DA, well except besides being in the damn quest).

THOTHdha
03-10-2011, 08:58 AM
[COLOR=red]Yup, I've always enjoyed the devils of amrath, maybe add content so we're helping the opposing force to the devils of shavarath to restore the balance?

Demons of Shavrath and Celestials of Shavrath could be amazing packs!

Talon_Moonshadow
03-10-2011, 09:25 AM
I was disappointed that the explorer area of Amrath was not larger than it is.
It should be at least as large as the desert.....with many secrets to uncover.

Would love to see this area enlarged and more quests added.

geoffhanna
03-10-2011, 09:31 AM
Really nice post.

I've been living with these things for so long that I kind of forget that they are not right. And they aren't. Not right at all.

Renewed attention to them is a good thing.

I want to +1 you but apparently have already used up all of today's allotment of +1s :(

Angelus_dead
03-10-2011, 10:02 AM
IOne thing about Bastion - Mobs a floor above you aggro-ing *may* be WAI, as many floors are a metal mesh-work sort of thing.


The grated floors I feel are working as intended. Aggro through door or gates is fine as well.
No, it is not working as intended that you can get Dungeon Alert from rooms you haven't been to yet.

Dungeon Alert should only ever trigger if players are splitting up or leaving live monsters behind them. If you get DA from monsters you can't reach yet, then that is a bug.

Angelus_dead
03-10-2011, 10:16 AM
New Invasion
The bug is based on the random location of the end room. Some locations have shrines and death-teleporters, and some lack them.

Genesis Point
The easiest, but also the most boring!
The extraneous levers are decorations, and represent that the Devils have some machines to operate that don't do anything helpful to player characters.
It's a bug that using too many upper-level levers can leave doors perma-closed.

Bastion of Power:
There has been a bug recently (not sure if it's still there after the anniversary patch) where sometimes the three boss lights will all display as lit, regardless of if they are really lit or not.
How the alarm system works is that once one alarm has been triggered by a Tiefling, portals will begin spawning at their locations by proximity.
Bastion of Power has a minor bug: if you sneak all the way to the third floor and let Demons in, an alarm will go off and the DM claims that you were spotted.

Sins of Attrition
The blade traps are immune to Spot, Search, and Disable, which is a bug.

Tower of Despair:
Clearly room 2 wasn't meant to be a kite-fest, and the devs instead wanted you to nuke down those shadows with caster/ranged damage. There are several ways to produce the desired result (such as having Shadowfiends share 50% of Nythrious's hate), but at this time it'd probably be better to leave it as-is for the sake of nostalgia.
Power Words can work on lower-hp level-appropriate characters, especially if they've been damaged.

Loot:
Here are a bunch of old suggestions for TOD sets: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2666899#post2666899

Ziindarax
03-10-2011, 10:16 AM
Demons of Shavrath and Celestials of Shavrath could be amazing packs!

Seconded.

Rian
03-10-2011, 07:23 PM
I was disappointed that the explorer area of Amrath was not larger than it is.
It should be at least as large as the desert.....with many secrets to uncover.

Would love to see this area enlarged and more quests added.

if they did I'd like to see something like they did with subT, multiple instances with different S/E/Rs for each, Devil Territory, No-mans-land, and Archon/Celestial territory :)

sigtrent
03-10-2011, 07:38 PM
Tower of Despair:
Clearly room 2 wasn't meant to be a kite-fest, and the devs instead wanted you to nuke down those shadows with caster/ranged damage.

I'm not so sure about that, I've never seen one of those things killed. They regenerate pretty strongly are very hard to hang with (for most dps types) and they move a bit too fast to damage kite them effectively. Also if you consider the room where you fight... its size and shape makes a lot of sense for playing keep away with the shadows. I'd wager kiting is part of the design, or at least intended as a reasonable option.

They can be tanked, you just need the means to reduce the cold damage to a point where it won't one shot you and you need a pretty steady source of significant healing. If you have the right character/gear its actually really easy to tank them, far easier than kiting which can be tricky.

I think they are there to distract the party and force you to come up with a solution to the problem. Killing them clearly isn't very viable so that's likely not what the dev's had in mind.

Angelus_dead
03-10-2011, 07:59 PM
I'm not so sure about that, I've never seen one of those things killed. They regenerate pretty strongly are very hard to hang with (for most dps types) and they move a bit too fast to damage kite them effectively.
Their regeneration is stated as contingent on proximity to allies, so the apparent intent was that players would have to be pulling them apart from the swarm and killing them one at a time (like what you do in Shroud2). If you weren't meant to be killing them, why would the devs have bothered to give them a situational vulnerability, and not just made them ultra-regenerating at all times?

I suspect the goal was that you'd need to send away around half the party to work on killing the shadowfiends, which would more than double the time spent killing the boss. Since the current time to kill him is weirdly low, it would make sense it was supposed to be slower.

MrWizard
03-10-2011, 07:59 PM
I'm not so sure about that, I've never seen one of those things killed. They regenerate pretty strongly are very hard to hang with (for most dps types) and they move a bit too fast to damage kite them effectively. Also if you consider the room where you fight... its size and shape makes a lot of sense for playing keep away with the shadows. I'd wager kiting is part of the design, or at least intended as a reasonable option.

They can be tanked, you just need the means to reduce the cold damage to a point where it won't one shot you and you need a pretty steady source of significant healing. If you have the right character/gear its actually really easy to tank them, far easier than kiting which can be tricky.

I think they are there to distract the party and force you to come up with a solution to the problem. Killing them clearly isn't very viable so that's likely not what the dev's had in mind.

if you had a few people who could hold their aggro and not just one, the beat down would be easier...

sirgog
03-10-2011, 08:08 PM
I'm not so sure about that, I've never seen one of those things killed. They regenerate pretty strongly are very hard to hang with (for most dps types) and they move a bit too fast to damage kite them effectively. Also if you consider the room where you fight... its size and shape makes a lot of sense for playing keep away with the shadows. I'd wager kiting is part of the design, or at least intended as a reasonable option.

They can be tanked, you just need the means to reduce the cold damage to a point where it won't one shot you and you need a pretty steady source of significant healing. If you have the right character/gear its actually really easy to tank them, far easier than kiting which can be tricky.

I think they are there to distract the party and force you to come up with a solution to the problem. Killing them clearly isn't very viable so that's likely not what the dev's had in mind.

Nuker specced Sorcs often accidentally kill them while kiting, which is quite a nuisance. Any group that actually tries to kill the Shadows will, but they nearly instantly respawn.

I assumed the Shadows were meant to be tanked in small numbers by different people, perhaps one 'tank' per 2 shadowfiends. Keep the fight short and you'll only see four fiends; but if it gets long (and on Hard/Elite it often does) then you'll encounter six or eight, and thus more DPS'ers will be tied up tanking them.

It didn't work out that way, however - much easier to have a favored soul kite them (a Wizard or Sorc can even do it if you don't have access to the FvS 'easy button', but it's ten times harder on an arcane)

sigtrent
03-10-2011, 08:11 PM
I suspect the goal was that you'd need to send away around half the party to work on killing the shadowfiends, which would more than double the time spent killing the boss. Since the current time to kill him is weirdly low, it would make sense it was supposed to be slower.

Thats a good theory... but while they can be survived in melee, there aren't many characters that can manage it, especially not each on their own without support. Is there anywhere you can just buy fire shield pots reliably? There are the winter games ones but typically pots are limited to level 3 spells (though from any casters list). Still, wouldn't be the first time a dev might have misjudged party makeup and tactics.

I actually like the kiting pretty well, its fun and tense, though its a bummer when you make an error and wipe the raid :P High risk/reward strategy as where just tanking them is really pretty simple.

TheDearLeader
03-10-2011, 08:11 PM
No, it is not working as intended that you can get Dungeon Alert from rooms you haven't been to yet.

Dungeon Alert should only ever trigger if players are splitting up or leaving live monsters behind them. If you get DA from monsters you can't reach yet, then that is a bug.

Dungeon Alert is (supposedly) about Mobs seeing you, a player character, somewhere you should not be - such as in their house. If I'm a tiefling guard, and I see something that is *not* an Orthon, Devil, or fellow Tiefling wandering around, I'm going to sound the alarm. Mesh floors that we can see *up* through means they can also see *down* through to us.

So, unless you can produce a Dev quote stating specifically that these mobs, in this quest, in a situation of vertical aggro due to transparent floors is a Bug and not WAI, I think you're being a bit presumptive.



Genesis Point
The easiest, but also the most boring!
The extraneous levers are decorations, and represent that the Devils have some machines to operate that don't do anything helpful to player characters.
It's a bug that using too many upper-level levers can leave doors perma-closed.


Again, it seems that we have some differing opinions about "Bugs".

Genesis Point - the levers have two options - Open a closed door, and close an open door. The doors being opened/closed can be seen from the lever in question.

This probably isn't a bug, its Darwinism. Close one door that's already been opened? "Oh, its cool. I just won't do that for any more doors, and go around." Close a second? Well then, someone left their brain back on the Prime Material.



Sins of Attrition
The blade traps are immune to Spot, Search, and Disable, which is a bug.


Again, Dev quote on this? I've never noticed this on "Known Issues", nor seen a thread stating it. Otherwise, calling it a "Bug" that Devils, who can easily teleport to the areas between traps and keep going with their day, is rather arbitrary.



Tower of Despair:
Clearly room 2 wasn't meant to be a kite-fest, and the devs instead wanted you to nuke down those shadows with caster/ranged damage. There are several ways to produce the desired result (such as having Shadowfiends share 50% of Nythrious's hate), but at this time it'd probably be better to leave it as-is for the sake of nostalgia.


Clearly based upon what? Again, do you have a pocket Dev you keep summoning to come to such conclusions? As one who "Kites" these Shadows, I can't see nuking them down to be a viable option.

sigtrent
03-10-2011, 08:17 PM
It didn't work out that way, however - much easier to have a favored soul kite them (a Wizard or Sorc can even do it if you don't have access to the FvS 'easy button', but it's ten times harder on an arcane)

I actually haven't seen FS kite them often, the placing of the BB seems less reliable (the shadows will skip the edge and such sometimes, but I suppose thats part of the skill of it.

I've only done it on my WF wizard and the main challenge tends to be getting the second wave settled in and not getting caught between them as they train up. Of course my observation is it's far harder the longer the beat-down takes. If the crew can drop him to half in one extended firewalls time its very easy, if not it can be a fair bit trickier on the second half.

sirgog
03-10-2011, 08:23 PM
I actually haven't seen FS kite them often, the placing of the BB seems less reliable (the shadows will skip the edge and such sometimes, but I suppose thats part of the skill of it.

I've only done it on my WF wizard and the main challenge tends to be getting the second wave settled in and not getting caught between them as they train up. Of course my observation is it's far harder the longer the beat-down takes. If the crew can drop him to half in one extended firewalls time its very easy, if not it can be a fair bit trickier on the second half.

Even after dropping Extend Spell (meaning I need to cast BB every single pass), I'm so far ahead of the shadows that I only ever take damage when one of them makes an unexpected turn; and between the extraordinary HP and cold resist a FvS can get, and UMD'd Fire Shield, I can survive being hit 12 times by the Elite fiends with only one heal in there (no Cold Absorb item, although I'm thinking of blowing 9 trophies to turn a ring noone wanted into a cold absorb item, and yes Ferrumrym, I did test this in the elite run you led for your 20th ToD yesterday...).

Spookyaction
03-10-2011, 09:32 PM
'[QUOTE=TheDearLeader;3641171]Dungeon Alert is (supposedly) about Mobs seeing you, a player character, somewhere you should not be - such as in their house. If I'm a tiefling guard, and I see something that is *not* an Orthon, Devil, or fellow Tiefling wandering around, I'm going to sound the alarm. Mesh floors that we can see *up* through means they can also see *down* through to us.

So, unless you can produce a Dev quote stating specifically that these mobs, in this quest, in a situation of vertical aggro due to transparent floors is a Bug and not WAI, I think you're being a bit presumptive.
Again, it seems that we have some differing opinions about "Bugs".'



Dungeon alert was an after thought. You can spin it any way you want but it was put in play to stop lag not to enhance game play. It has nothing to do with the roleplay scenario you describe above. I dont think the dev intentionally made this quest so you would have red alerts with no way to clear them.

TheDearLeader
03-10-2011, 09:44 PM
Dungeon alert was an after thought. You can spin it any way you want but it was put in play to stop lag not to enhance game play. It has nothing to do with the roleplay scenario you describe above. I dont think the dev intentionally made this quest so you would have red alerts with no way to clear them.

Cleaned out the quote. you need a [ / quote](take out the spaces) at the end to close a quote if you're going to truncate it in some manner.

Replace the words "dungeon alert" with "mob aggro" in my statement, then. Forget we're talking about dungeon alert. A_D calls it a "bug" that mobs can see you through a semi-transparent floor. I merely want to see where this was confirmed or denied by the person that coded it. If it has not been confirmed, we cannot accurately say that this mechanism is operating outside of Developer intent.

Getting to DA Red? Perhaps not what was in mind, no.

Angelus_dead
03-10-2011, 09:47 PM
A_D calls it a "bug" that mobs can see you through a semi-transparent floor.
No, I did not make a claim like that, as reading this thread would demonstrate. My statement was about Dungeon Alert; if you decide not to talk about Dungeon Alert, then you're no longer talking about anything I wrote.

TheDearLeader
03-10-2011, 09:51 PM
No, I did not make a claim like that, as reading this thread would demonstrate. My statement was about Dungeon Alert; if you decide not to talk about Dungeon Alert, then you're no longer talking about anything I wrote.


No, it is not working as intended that you can get Dungeon Alert from rooms you haven't been to yet.

Dungeon Alert should only ever trigger if players are splitting up or leaving live monsters behind them. If you get DA from monsters you can't reach yet, then that is a bug.

Maybe another person logging onto your account, then? The second quoted post is your response to me, and another, specifically mentioning the meshwork floors of Bastion of Power.

I've read this thread. Been keeping my eye on it, as I was the 3rd and 5th posts in it. I guess you haven't caught up to post #25, where I've asked that you back up such claims of "this is a bug, that is a bug".

Angelus_dead
03-10-2011, 09:54 PM
I guess you haven't caught up to post #25, where I've asked that you back up such claims of "this is a bug, that is a bug".
The main reason I haven't been replying to those posts is that they are in violation of the forum rules.

TheDearLeader
03-10-2011, 10:00 PM
The main reason I haven't been replying to those posts is that they are in violation of the forum rules.

I'm asking you for reference material to back up your claims. Either they are Bugs (as noted by a Dev/Dev Team), or they are unconfirmed but suspected.

I'll make the assumption, then, that if you will not respond, it is because you have nothing clearly evidencing these mechanics are operating outside of developer intent.

donfilibuster
03-10-2011, 11:15 PM
Flaws aside Shavarath is a good rendering of the Plane of Battle.
As it is canon in any d&d world the devils are in eternal fight with the demons for control of the outer planes.

The celestials won't give quarters to either side least the hellish war spills to the material world.
The devils may have won the recent battles, but the war will go on forever.


About some of the things OP mentions:

The golems going mad are right and nice, despite the pathing issues, same with the cube the cubes are awesome.

The shrine in new invasion looks random, it isn't always in the lower corner of the map as per usual.
Sometimes is by the chest, sometimes is a little to the side. I have at least seen it in three different spots.

Being able to pilfer the chest in new invasion is a nice touch. Closed by the unwilling will of the unwilling my underpants!
Hope the laughter echoes till the prisoners ears.


As for favorite bugged stuff, it's hard choice since there seems to be plenty.

One that makes you wonder is that the scaling seems to be a bit rough.
There's always some player saying 'i can solo this on normal', just to find the going gets tough with more people.
Specially for the new invasion boss, you can flag in casual in pairs of two and save time compared with going all together.

Oh and one that never fails is that since my computer is slow loading i am always dead upon recalling from new invasion.
What it'd take to move those few devils just a little further?

TheDearLeader
03-10-2011, 11:20 PM
One that makes you wonder is that the scaling seems to be a bit rough.
There's always some player saying 'i can solo this on normal', just to find the going gets tough with more people.
Specially for the new invasion boss, you can flag in casual in pairs of two and save time compared with going all together.

Oh and one that never fails is that since my computer is slow loading i am always dead upon recalling from new invasion.
What it'd take to move those few devils just a little further?

Scaling is rough. Soloing is pretty easy, though. If I'm bringing others in for completion (say, like, Sins), I just ask them to hang outside until its completion time. I will say soloing the end boss of New Invasion with a 6-man on a melee is a little tricky. I think it'd help if any of my toons had this "AC" thing people keep telling me about...

Recalling from New Invasion.. its about half and half for me whether or not they aggro on me. As there are different mob layouts (sometimes Barbazu, sometime Orthons), I'm thinking it might depend on which ones are outside when I zone.

donfilibuster
03-10-2011, 11:52 PM
Recalling from New Invasion.. its about half and half for me whether or not they aggro on me. As there are different mob layouts (sometimes Barbazu, sometime Orthons), I'm thinking it might depend on which ones are outside when I zone.

Speaking of this layouts thing, i once got a layout where the maze was connected by the middle.
The maze connections i believe are random, but tipically you may see the three sides on the first floor disconnected.
So big was my surprise when i got a little too close to the antimagic and my invisibility vanished.
Every monster in the floor converged on me without having to go too far around the walls.

There was so many of them that i jumped and never landed, i was standing on top of a bunch of thiefling melees, and you know you never meet but a couple melee/archer/caster in any given spot.
Then took a screenshot (http://img848.imageshack.us/i/screenshot05353.jpg/) and lag went nuts so died from it, and so did my party members one by one that walked in nonchalantly for the rescue.
Red alert never went away, there were thieflings everywhere, not to speak of summoned spiders, clearing that path took quite a bit.