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Splotto
03-09-2011, 04:59 PM
Hello:

I was thinking that a great ability to have as a caster would be to 'mass' any spell you have as a metamagic feat. It would allow for faster buffing (at a cost) and would seem to improve the game.

Some random thoughts:

1. It could be a feat, like the other metamagics since it is valuable. However, it could be an enhancement as well, depends on the final numbers.

2. It could only apply to buff-type spells applied to the party, rather then offensive spells in order to limit it.

3. It would surely have to cost significantly more SP since it's on the whole party, but less then simply 12x the base SP cost of the spell to allow a caster to benefit from taking the feat. Possibly 4x the SP to recognize it being used on a 6 member party (RAID's could just get the benefit of scale).

4. Should be able to turn it on and off like other metamagics.

Those are my quick and dirty notes on it.

I would love to see it in the game some day.

Asketes
03-09-2011, 05:04 PM
not sure how it would work. but a mass blur or mass resist energy would definitely be neat!

+1


i always thought of them adding them as mass spells as a higher spell level.. who knows

Splotto
03-09-2011, 05:08 PM
not sure how it would work. but a mass blur or mass resist energy would definitely be neat!

+1


i always thought of them adding them as mass spells as a higher spell level.. who knows

Yes.

Mass GH
Mass Blur
Mass Resist
Mass Displace
Mass Jump
Mass TS
etc...

All at a cost of course. Spending a Feat or Enhancement and higher SP cost then the single spell.

Lithic
03-09-2011, 05:15 PM
I'd be a great idea, even if the cost was equal to buffing everyone individually. Or at least the devs could make a mass version of every buff spell that was 2 or 3 spell levels higher.

Asketes
03-09-2011, 05:15 PM
Yes.

Mass GH
Mass Blur
Mass Resist
Mass Displace
Mass Jump
Mass TS
etc...

All at a cost of course. Spending a Feat or Enhancement and higher SP cost then the single spell.

I could see it costing 30 extra SP to use. but it has to be 12 people, not 6 like the original mass heal oversight.

testing1234
03-09-2011, 05:22 PM
intresting idea...

dont see any obvious balance issue that makes it impossible also seems shouldnt be impossible to code.
a feat only used for defensive spells at first glance i doubt anyone would take this

Splotto
03-09-2011, 05:26 PM
intresting idea...

dont see any obvious balance issue that makes it impossible also seems shouldnt be impossible to code.
a feat only used for defensive spells at first glance i doubt anyone would take this

Hello:

Well, the benefit would be an overall lower SP for buffing your party and saving time. If you are a caster that buffs alot, saving overall SP would be great.

Brennie
03-09-2011, 05:32 PM
intresting idea...

dont see any obvious balance issue that makes it impossible also seems shouldnt be impossible to code.
a feat only used for defensive spells at first glance i doubt anyone would take this

People take extend for buffs, to save time and spellpoints. People would probably take this as well.

Calebro
03-09-2011, 05:53 PM
Adding in mass versions of the spells is a much better option than adding a metamagic feat.
Blur, Mass would be a level 5 or 6 spell.
Heroism, Mass would be level 6 or 7.

This would force you to choose your spells much more carefully than simply taking a feat to make anything a Mass.

pelaaja
03-12-2011, 09:16 AM
Adding in mass versions of the spells is a much better option than adding a metamagic feat.
Blur, Mass would be a level 5 or 6 spell.
Heroism, Mass would be level 6 or 7.

This would force you to choose your spells much more carefully than simply taking a feat to make anything a Mass.
Mass Heroism = Good hope. I think Mass Heroism should be there a bit earlier than Bard gets its Good Hope.

Mass GH Should spell lvl 8-9 as it's so good.

What about Mass Displacement? At spell lvl 8 or 9, too.

Mass Jump would be good at spell lvl 4 or 3.

Just my opinion

/signed

justhavinfun
03-12-2011, 09:27 AM
Have to agree that I would rather have the mass spells than another feat. Most casting classes are already rather feat starved. The savings in SPs would be nice, but the big benifit would be the time savings. Nothing is more annoying than starting a quest or raid than having to stand around for 30 min trying to get everyone buffed.

Requiro
03-12-2011, 09:27 AM
/signed

Very good Idea :)

Proposal of cost: 5xNormal in Quest and Town, 10xNormal in Raid

And enhancements line:
- 2 AP: 4xNormal in Quest and Town, 8xNormal in Raid
- 4 AP: 3xNormal in Quest and Town, 6xNormal in Raid
- 6 AP: 2xNormal in Quest and Town, 4xNormal in Raid

Of course best solution is this feat and more mass spell.

Maren_Vond
03-12-2011, 09:32 AM
It would not be a new feat: the Chain Spell metamagic feat (Complete Arcane) lets you chain one multiple target per level beside your primary, up to a maximum of 20. Currently the cost is the same as Maximize Spell (+3 spell levels) and would let casters to effectively buff in parties from lvl 5 and in raids from level 11.

Would still be an interesting implementation, so +1 to the OP.

PS and please add Widen Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#widenSpell) too.

stille_nacht
03-12-2011, 09:38 AM
/signed

Very good Idea :)

Proposal of cost: 5xNormal in Quest and Town, 10xNormal in Raid

And enhancements line:
- 2 AP: 4xNormal in Quest and Town, 8xNormal in Raid
- 4 AP: 3xNormal in Quest and Town, 6xNormal in Raid
- 6 AP: 2xNormal in Quest and Town, 4xNormal in Raid

Of course best solution is this feat and more mass spell.

no enhancement scaling line is required, just have it cost a set amount from the feat..

also, i agree witht he above people, it would be much more convenient just to have mass versions of current spells. also resist the elements would be great o-O

Rakian_Knight
03-12-2011, 10:08 AM
/not signed

Not all spells should be able to be massed and not to mention it would destroy easily a quarter of the spells in the game. The problem with mass as a meta-magic feat is that spells get different values of usefulness if you mass them.

For example take Deathward (Level 4), Spell Resistance (Level 5), and Protection from Elements (Level 5):

Deathward is a spell that makes you immune to all negative energy attack (inflict/harm/Death auras/etc.) and energy drain (Negative Levels/Fatigue/Exhaustion). All this for a single person at level 4.

Spell Resistance gives you protection from non-damaging spells. This is a level 5 spell.

Protection from Elements absorbs 10 * caster level from all five elements. This is a level 5 spell.

If the usefulness of all these spell in mass was the same as in the single version wouldn't it stand to reason that Mass Deathward would end up being a level 6 spell while the Mass Protection from elements and Spell resistance would be level 7? However, this isn't the case. Mass deathward is higher level spell because it is more powerful then the others in mass. Have a raid group without mass deathward (minus the pale masters) and most likely you are going to see complications however forget to throw a mass Protection from elements and you won't even realize until you look up at your buff bar.

Another issue you would see with this is the freed up space because they don't have to carry the mass spells anymore. Most people that I've run with don't carry the single form of the spell once they get the mass versions because they always need to use the mass versions. The cost of this is you use more sp to buff if it is just yourself but you loosen up some your lower spell slots. With a mass meta-magic feat you loose this kind of choice and it starts turning the game into a all-size-fits-one kind of style instead of each type of character has its strengths and weaknesses.

I know these are situational everywhere except the shroud but when you have to buff in battle. Making choices of who to buff with spells like greater heroism and freedom of movement can change the way things turn out. Imagine the cleric and the tank are the only ones left and the cleric starts raises people. The tank is tanking an Earth Elemental. The cleric then has to make a choice, which is more important the freedom of movement on the DPS he just raised or the next raise spell to raise the next dps. Now where a mass freedom of movement might not help those who are just dead, imagine part 5 of the shroud where everyone come back at the same time. Imagine if you could just mass Freedom of Movement there so no one got earth-grabbed.

Sorry this is a longer post.

Raodin-bel-iori
03-13-2011, 09:45 PM
I would also like to see a "share spell" feat that allows casting of personal only spells on others. I'd like to cast sheild or tensers transformation on my teammates using two handed or two weapons as well as cast tensers on the more combat oriented party members. As a wizard I never use the spell since It's personal only.

Aaxeyu
03-13-2011, 09:59 PM
Something like this would be great. It's sooo friggin boring to stand around and buff everyone one at a time.

It's not an easy button, it's a "less boring, more fun" button.

Bogenbroom
03-13-2011, 10:06 PM
I have suggested something similar in the past. One of the very good arguments against it had to do with the impact of mass spells in combat situations.

My thought in that arena was to have the ability to cast mass-meta-ed spells restricted to shrines and dungeon enterence areas.