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zex95966
03-02-2011, 07:52 AM
so what do I need to increase? my DC's? my Spell pen? Heck for that matter even my charms only work half the time....

I don't have any problem in normal of course, in hard it's not to bad... but if I enter a quest in elite I usually have to cast a spell 5 times before it goes through. both my charms and my Niac's.. at my level that's the spell i'm using for direct damage.

anyways here's what I'm using:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Female
(2 Rogue \ 18 Wizard)
Hit Points: 206
Spell Points: 1523
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 18
Will: 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 12 12
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 16 16
Intelligence 18 28
Wisdom 12 12
Charisma 6 6

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 3 3
Bluff -2 -2
Concentration 5 30
Diplomacy 2 2
Disable Device 8 32
Haggle 2 2
Heal 1 1
Hide 3 3
Intimidate -2 -2
Jump 4 4
Listen 5 5
Move Silently 3 3
Open Lock 3 19
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 4 9
Search 8 32
Spot 5 24
Swim 1 1
Tumble 0 0
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Listen (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell


Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Inscribed Armor I


Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation II
Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting I


Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II


Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Enhancement: Wizard Archmage I


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+5)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+5)
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II


Level 9 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation III
Enhancement: Archmage Spell Mastery I: Enchantment


Level 10 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements II


Level 11 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Improved Concentration III
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Enhancement: Wizard Archmage II


Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Wizard Archmage III


Level 15 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar IV


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration II


Level 17 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Improved Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Wizard Archmage IV
Enhancement: Archmage Spell Mastery II: Enchantment


Level 18 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration III


Level 19 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Improved Concentration IV
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements III


Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting II
Enhancement: Wizard Archmage V
Enhancement: Enchantment I - Hypnotism
Enhancement: Enchantment II - Otto's Resistible Dance
Enhancement: Enchantment III - Hold Person
Enhancement: Enchantment IV - Charm Monster
Enhancement: Enchantment V - Hold Monster

bryanmeerkat
03-02-2011, 08:01 AM
Thats kind of why they call it elite . Targeting spells againist mobs weakness is your best bet . charms are unlikely to work on casters , but your reflex save damage spells are more likely to take out a shaman than a rogue like mob .

Qezuzu
03-02-2011, 08:02 AM
Get your INT maxed out. I see you already understand that.

What level are you currently? If you're using Niac's then I'm assuming under lvl5, at which point you shouldn't be worrying about your DC's.

If it's really a problem for you then I'd suggest Scorching Ray. It doesn't have a save. Or simply getting a greataxe, Master's Touch and swinging till you have more useful spells.

Also note that lower level spells have low DC's until you get Heighten, which will boost their DC's.

Also, understand mob saves.

Divine Casters: At high levels, they have Cometfall, which is a huge PITA. Many also heal allies, spam Searing Light which is quite painful with no save, and a select few will cast Deathward. They generally have very high will saves, and low fortitude and reflex saves. Target them first.

Arcane Casters: Another annoying mob. Cast AoE spells that can really hurt. Their will saves are respectably high but lower than Divines, and have low fort/ref saves.

General Melee: General damage-dealing mob. May have trip or stunning blow. Can deal damage fast if they have a "beserker" attack, like Ogres. Low will/ref, high fort.

"Rogueish" Melee: If a mob is in stealth and seems to come out of nowhere, they're like General melee but have high reflex saves (and usually have Evasion as well), lower fort saves and low will saves.

Archers: Annoying, but in general the least dangerous type. High reflex, low fort and will.

blitzschlag
03-02-2011, 08:03 AM
what lvl, what quest, what mobs are we talking about anyway.

niacs got a reflex save for no damage. therefore its pretty much useless against certain mobs. get scorching ray as soon as possible for single target nuking.

if you using niacs on lvl 20 (as the build suggests) still then you do something wrong...

Bodic
03-02-2011, 08:23 AM
I know its short range and all but the bestestest low lvl spell is Shocking Grasp especially if you have the Lightning Rod from Von4 you can Melee well with it too.

zex95966
03-02-2011, 09:03 AM
what lvl, what quest, what mobs are we talking about anyway.

niacs got a reflex save for no damage. therefore its pretty much useless against certain mobs. get scorching ray as soon as possible for single target nuking.

if you using niacs on lvl 20 (as the build suggests) still then you do something wrong...


Hahaha... i'm noob but I ain't a lvl 20 noob using Niacs!

he's lvl 4- got him to 5 today, and i'm talking elite kobolds, (pathetic monsters i know...) and sometimes orcs and trolls... but they are *all* saving against my Niacs and charms... guess I just need to level up more. If that's true then I guess i'm glad there is nothing wrong with the build itself.

but yeah I know and have been charming the archers, niacs the casters... still don't land though. - if it's just me being low level that's fine, I'm happy with that as I can always level up. If it's my build, then I wanna know, so I can reroll sooner rather than later.

blitzschlag
03-02-2011, 09:14 AM
Hahaha... i'm noob but I ain't a lvl 20 noob using Niacs!

he's lvl 4- got him to 5 today, and i'm talking elite kobolds, (pathetic monsters i know...) and sometimes orcs and trolls... but they are *all* saving against my Niacs and charms... guess I just need to level up more. If that's true then I guess i'm glad there is nothing wrong with the build itself.

and even targeting low will guys like archers, I *still!* can't land my charm!

there is some things that can interfere here

- wrong spell on the wrong mob. niacs on archer has a good chance to be saved due to good reflex save. niacs on melee mob has a lower chance to be resisted. niacs on a caster has a mediocre chance to be resisted on low levels.
- charms on melee and archers should work ok. even from wands. on casters is a different story (better willsave and stuff)
- hypnotism is a good spell to immobilize stuff even on elite. whack em with a greataxe after

get some superior freeze I, superior inferno I and superior inferno II pots.
theyre quite cheap and deliver the punch you need.


note: dungeon alert scales the mobs attributes and with it its saves

Teech
03-02-2011, 09:16 AM
Hahaha... i'm noob but I ain't a lvl 20 noob using Niacs!

he's lvl 4- got him to 5 today, and i'm talking elite kobolds, (pathetic monsters i know...) and sometimes orcs and trolls... but they are *all* saving against my Niacs and charms... guess I just need to level up more. If that's true then I guess i'm glad there is nothing wrong with the build itself.

but yeah I know and have been charming the archers, niacs the casters... still don't land though. - if it's just me being low level that's fine, I'm happy with that as I can always level up. If it's my build, then I wanna know, so I can reroll sooner rather than later.

The following is my simple solution:
When on elite, choose spells that still do dmg on save.

I think shocking grasp works like that.

I usually run with niacs, but when I go in on elite, even if its an at-level quest, i tend to switch out for something else, or at least make sure I have a back up dmg spell in case everything saves on niac.