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Eburon
03-01-2011, 11:05 AM
Since I will soon unlock the drow race I figured I should roll one with a class I haven't played. So I decided on a Drow Wizard (Pale Master). I can't post on the wizard boards so I'm hoping to get some help/advice here.

I will most likely have to solo quite a bit, so I do need survivability. I thought about splashing 2 rogue levels, but I don't really know what the pros and cons are for doing that, nor how to build one. Also I don't know if pure good alignment would be better than true neutral.
The order of feat selections was done pretty much random, so advice on optimising this is also welcome (same with enhancements).


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Drow Male
(20 Wizard)
Hit Points: 202
Spell Points: 1680
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 16
Will: 11

Starting Ending
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 10 10
Dexterity 10 10
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 20 25
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 10 10

Starting Ending
Base Skills Base Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 2 11.5
Bluff 0 0
Concentration 6 25
Diplomacy 0 0
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 0 6
Heal -1 -1
Hide 1 11.5
Intimidate 0 0
Jump 2 11.5
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 0 11.5
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 5 10
Search 5 10
Spot 1 10.5
Swim 2 2
Tumble 1 1
Use Magic Device 2 11.5

Level 1 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Swim (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I


Level 2 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Energy I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation II
Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting I


Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II


Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master I


Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation III


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements II
Enhancement: Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 9 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III


Level 10 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell


Level 11 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Enhancement: Shroud of the Lich
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master II


Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements III
Enhancement: Shroud of the Wraith


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation IV


Level 15 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements III


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery III


Level 17 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration II


Level 18 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master III


Level 19 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery IV


Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Enchantment
Enhancement: Wizard Master of Magic
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Energy II

tihocan
03-01-2011, 12:00 PM
Currently, Neutral > Good on a wizard.

Looks good to me, I only glanced at it though, you may still compare it to the Necro build in this thread (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=232660), but I suspect they're pretty close.

ReaperAlexEU
03-01-2011, 01:34 PM
few tips for you:

pale master I doesnt have a whole lot to offer. play with the idea of taking pale master I and II both at lvl12, that way you can push the focus: necro feats back and take some other feats earlier.

make sure you learn masters touch at lvl1, then get a nice 2-handed whomping stick. early on with a few buffs you'll be able to do decent damage with a weapon. that helps a lot when your spells are weak and your spell pool is shallow. i actually used a greataxe all the way to lvl12 on my dwarven pale master, he had 10 STR too.

read this list of spells you cant buy:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Scrolls#Scrolls_not_available_from_vendors

its very handy for choosing what spells to learn for free, and what to buy from the vendors to learn.

Tunst
03-01-2011, 01:43 PM
202 hp is lookin a bit low.
try to hit for 300 before you put items on.
because then with items, you may get 450 or so.


insightful reflexes is a weak feat
so is spell focus enchantment, you should be fine on DC's.
get more toughness.

redo your enhancements.
you could get more int for Wizard: Int.

uhm....
other then that, i dont know what else to say.

just my 2cp. :)

Torebro
03-01-2011, 02:14 PM
202 is the max he can reach, for a drow without a tome.

20 - Heroic Durability
80 - Wizard 20
22 - Toughness
20 - Toughness Enhancements
40 - Con
20 - Pale Master

(+20 Con Tome, +60 Con6 Item, +30 GFL, +20 Minos, +40 Lich, +45 GS HP, +20 Guild Shrine, + exceptional Con + temporary effects, like Yugo Pots and Rage) and he can get more than 500.

Insightful Reflexes isn't a bad feat, as a wizard in Epics you can get hit by a 400pts DBF in the face (Kobold Worker: "Not in the face, not in the face"), so Insightful Reflexes cuts the damage by half. I personally wouldn't take it, but I can see reasons why other people do.

(greater) spell focus:enchantment is important on a first life wizard IMO, you don't have the equipment to get a MHM-DC of 40, so having both feats is very nice.

OTOH he only has Spell Penetration and not Greater Spell Penetration. I would recommend both. Maybe drop Mental Toughness, unless you want the option to change to Archmage/Wraith form.


Regards Tore

Rawel_San
03-01-2011, 03:19 PM
Essentially what torebro said. The hp pool should be fine. I personally opted for 2 toughnesses on my first
life but you can get away with one easilly I broke 600 hp fully buffed in "rat mode" when I got all my items. Actually
before I got my epic envenomed cloak so will be able to break 600 again on my second life with just one toughness. To be absolutely fair unless you intend to tank quite a bit a hp pool of about 350-400 works just fine for a cc/support
wizard.

I ran epic oob before I had my gear with about 370 hp's and didn't die. One place you really do want to have over
400hp and close to 500 helps is epic queen you want to shoot for those numbers out of form too since you probably
don't want to self heal in there. Ofcourse having more hp's is definetely better and being able to break 400 means almost nothing can one shot you (horoth, epic wiz king and a few others still can but it's fairly rare).

I would recommend taking both spell pen and greater spell pen on a first life wizard my tendency would be to drop
either mental toughness or insightful reflexes. You might also consider taking quicken later on since especially
if you don't do much tanking just a bit of jumping around along with decent concentration works just fine. The first
place where you really start making use of quicken is amrath and some of the harder epics.

Just my 2 copper,
Rawel

hityawithastick
03-01-2011, 03:29 PM
202 is the max he can reach, for a drow without a tome.

20 - Heroic Durability
80 - Wizard 20
22 - Toughness
20 - Toughness Enhancements
40 - Con
20 - Pale Master



I'm still not sure how I did it, but I've got 300 hp at level 18 while in lichform, and 276 or so out of it. I think it has something to do with dumping points to Int and Con, and wearing a +6 Con item. :rolleyes:

To the OP:

A couplea tips.

First, as far as I know Death Ward will still block self healing. :eek: I usually wait to toss on a form after the cleric is done.

Second: Pick up a spell pen enhancement, or feat, or something, unless you want to just nuke everything (which I don't recommend--it's hard on the SP pool).

Third: Find a nice smashy stick for your wizard. A ML 1 or 2 greataxe with some nifty plus ability. Maybe buy it on your highest-level toon and mail it to your PM when you make them. Use it. Master's Touch if you want, or just use a quarterstaff.

And FINALLY: A good strategy is to periodically respec your enhancements. Maybe go necro archmage for the first 12 levels, and then respec and grab pale master I and II at the same time. :D

P.S. That skeletal minion from Pale Master I? Upgrade the skelly knight. He's a handy chunk of aggro-grabbing, shield-blocking, trip-attack making goodness that has more hit points than the average paladin and is healed just by being close to you. <3
I buff mine up and let him loose every time I solo. :D

Have fun with the PrE! Pale masters F T W !!!!1! :cool:

Rawel_San
03-01-2011, 03:47 PM
I'm still not sure how I did it, but I've got 300 hp at level 18 while in lichform, and 276 or so out of it. I think it has something to do with dumping points to Int and Con, and wearing a +6 Con item. :rolleyes:
<snip>

If you actually read torebro's post and the OP the 202 is what the character builder throws out. I.e. no con item
no gfl, no shroud hit points no gh favor hitpoints. Correctly geared with just the bare minimum you should have at level
18

20 (heroic durability)
72 (18 wiz levels)
90 (14 base +6 con item=20 con)
30 (gfl)
10 (GH favor)
22 (toughness)
20 (toughness enhancements)
20 (Palemaster III)
= 284 hp pre lich form at lvl 18 without essentially any items.
36 (lich form at 18)
=310 in lich form.

This is before any tricky to get items. With an easy to get tier 2 shroud item that's another 25. Very easy to get
+2 tome is another 18. For about 353.
Please read the posts you comment on before you start rolling your eyes, also make sure you actually have good hitpoints
before you boast about them.

hityawithastick
03-01-2011, 03:49 PM
If you actually read torebro's post and the OP the 202 is what the character builder throws out. I.e. no con item
no gfl, no shroud hit points no gh favor hitpoints. Correctly geared with just the bare minimum you should have at level
18

20 (heroic durability)
72 (18 wiz levels)
90 (14 base +6 con item=20 con)
30 (gfl)
10 (GH favor)
22 (toughness)
20 (toughness enhancements)
20 (Palemaster III)
= 284 hp pre lich form at lvl 18 without essentially any items.
36 (lich form at 18)
=310 in lich form.

This is before any tricky to get items. With an easy to get tier 2 shroud items that's another 25. Very easy to get
+2 tome is another 18. For about 353.

Please read the posts you comment on before you start rolling your eyes.

:rolleyes:

Eburon
03-01-2011, 06:15 PM
Thanks for the advice. I guess I'll reset my enhancements at level 12 to get both Pale Master at the same time. What do you suggest I spec for untill there?

I took Mental Toughness mainly for the Wraith Form. I have no idea of how viable this form is, so if it's not really worth it I'll drop it and take Greater Spel Penetration. If the form is viable, would you suggest i take Greater Spell Penetration instead of Insightfull Reflexes?

sephiroth1084
03-01-2011, 06:37 PM
Consider swapping Heighten and Quicken--Heighten starts to be useful around level 10, though a little expensive, whereas Quicken doesn't really become very useful until you start seriously raiding/facing monsters that hit hard enough to force Concentration failures even with a high score there.

I'd recommend getting Greater Spell Pen in place of something, but not sure what, or where. That free level 20 feat with the restricted list is the real problem. I don't think you'll be in dire shape without it, but it will help a lot. Maybe move some feats around to get Spell Pen earlier, so you can do a feat swap at level 19 of a metamagic or spell focus for Greater SP then level to 20 and pick up whatever you dropped again? Make sure you save your free feat respec for changing feats around level 20 in any case, as the cost to do so normally is ridiculous enough to make feat swapping at that level fairly unmanageable.

Spell Focus: Enchant is useful, but not necessary, and I'd say less vital than Greater SP on a first-life wizard.

I'd comment on the enhancements, but I really can't stand trying to work out what someone has taken over 20 levels. I, and many others on the boards, find it much easier to assess enhancements if you just put your final load-out at level 20.

I'll second the suggestion to hold off on PM until lvl 12. It is very underwhelming from 6-11. With the feats you have in place, you could take Archmage I and II, gain some more SP and basically the same free pew-pew option along with maybe 1 or 2 Spell-like abilities (I think the Necro ones are pretty junky, however).

sephiroth1084
03-01-2011, 06:38 PM
Thanks for the advice. I guess I'll reset my enhancements at level 12 to get both Pale Master at the same time. What do you suggest I spec for untill there?

I took Mental Toughness mainly for the Wraith Form. I have no idea of how viable this form is, so if it's not really worth it I'll drop it and take Greater Spel Penetration. If the form is viable, would you suggest i take Greater Spell Penetration instead of Insightfull Reflexes?
I wouldn't take GSP in place of IR.

I haven't tried Wraith form yet, though I will whenever I TR my wizard again. I've heard good things about it, so it may be worth hanging on to. You could always ditch Mental Toughness some time when leveling, then pick it up again at 20 in place of SF: Enchantment in order to fit both Spell Pen feats in.

ReaperAlexEU
03-01-2011, 08:25 PM
wraith form does look great, but the benefits of lich form make it really hard to ignore.

lich is:
+4 CON
+2 INT, WIS, CHA
+1 necro spell DC
chance for temp HP when hit

wraith is:
25% miss chance
perm FF
bonus to move silent

both have common undead traits that work very much like the deathward spell, but it cant be removed so works when facing beholders.

its just really hard to ignore the con, int and DC bonus lich has.

sephiroth1084
03-01-2011, 08:37 PM
Oh, there's no question at all that a Pale Master should be in lich form almost all the time, but whether wraith is worth picking up for some occasions.

Rawel_San
03-02-2011, 12:04 AM
I know some people swear by wraith form for the stacking 25% miss chance and the move silently and hide bonuses.
I think that especially for a newer player who will most probably want to try and keep out of harms way it's definitely
a boon in some quests and if you are not missing the dc bonus that much might be worth having on in a couple of
quests. Once you have end game gear I think it's a lot less useful than lich and I've not used it (dropped mental toughness +
I can't find the AP's for it) and never really found myself thinking "damn I could really use wraith form right now".

I think that until you get some more gear keeping IR, mental toughness and swapping greater spell pen in for
spell focus enchant is probably the way to go. It will mean your DC's won't be up to par for all epics but to be fair
without quite a bit of gear they wouldn't be anyhow. You can run everything else (including some epics) with that
set up and the +1 enchant dc will hurt a lot less then the +2 spell pen in my opinion. Mental toughness is "only" 105
sp at cap and while that is <5% of a fully geared casters sp it can easilly be 7-8% for a newer caster and you might
find yourself wishing you had it.

So I say drop SF:enchant till you have the gear to actually start epics properly then drop mental toughness for it
since by then chances are you will feel it hardly does anything for you anyhow.
Just my 2 copper,
Rawel

Ps.: Having said that if stealth is your thing you might consider keeping wraith form all together. The bonuses are nice
and incredible things can be done with stealth.

Solmage
03-02-2011, 12:14 AM
Contrary to the advice posted, I think insightful reflexes is one of the best things a wizard has going for them. You can SURVIVE with 450-550 hitpoints without it, but it's just plain nonsense to do so. Few feats will give you more.

I would suggest:

1: SF: Enchantment(*), Extend.
3: Maximize
5: spell penetration
6: greater spell penetration
9: heighten, (and keep on all the time from now on)
10: Spell focus Necro
12: Greater spell focus Necro
15: Insightful Reflexes, Empower (Right around the time when you start to get hit with comet falls, delayed blast fireballs, flying blade barriers, etc, and you could use a bit more punch)
18: Toughness

(*) Swap Maximize here and use the tier3 feat for Wizard past life feat if you're TRing.

I'd grab the archmage PRE at level 6, and get the 1 mana hypnotism enhancement, as well as the extra mana ones, and nothing else from arch mage. Hypnotism, specially extended and heightened, can be a pretty powerful form of essentially free crowd control, if only the party cooperates. (Or when soloing)

Once you reach level 12, Feel free to swap out Toughness at level 1 for more hitpoints, and move the spell focus enchantment to level 18.

chrichton
03-03-2011, 02:05 PM
202 hp is lookin a bit low.
try to hit for 300 before you put items on.
because then with items, you may get 450 or so.


insightful reflexes is a weak feat
so is spell focus enchantment, you should be fine on DC's.
get more toughness.

redo your enhancements.
you could get more int for Wizard: Int.

uhm....
other then that, i dont know what else to say.

just my 2cp. :)
I disagree with some of this. If you are going for a CC caster, spell focus enchantment is just fine.

And - if you do not min/max, you will find it very difficult to get to such HP levels. You can play a survivable caster with 'low' HP - but you need to be smart about your actions and strategy.

voodoogroves
03-03-2011, 02:10 PM
Contrary to the advice posted, I think insightful reflexes is one of the best things a wizard has going for them. You can SURVIVE with 450-550 hitpoints without it, but it's just plain nonsense to do so. Few feats will give you more.

I would suggest:

1: SF: Enchantment(*), Extend.
3: Maximize
5: spell penetration
6: greater spell penetration
9: heighten, (and keep on all the time from now on)
10: Spell focus Necro
12: Greater spell focus Necro
15: Insightful Reflexes, Empower (Right around the time when you start to get hit with comet falls, delayed blast fireballs, flying blade barriers, etc, and you could use a bit more punch)
18: Toughness

(*) Swap Maximize here and use the tier3 feat for Wizard past life feat if you're TRing.

I'd grab the archmage PRE at level 6, and get the 1 mana hypnotism enhancement, as well as the extra mana ones, and nothing else from arch mage. Hypnotism, specially extended and heightened, can be a pretty powerful form of essentially free crowd control, if only the party cooperates. (Or when soloing)

Once you reach level 12, Feel free to swap out Toughness at level 1 for more hitpoints, and move the spell focus enchantment to level 18.

You really want Quicken. You really also might consider GSF enchant as well on a first life.

sephiroth1084
03-03-2011, 09:58 PM
You really also might consider GSF enchant as well on a first life.What would you sacrifice for it? I don't think there's anything you can justifiably lose for this.

Solmage
03-04-2011, 12:26 AM
You really want Quicken. You really also might consider GSF enchant as well on a first life.

I do not rely on quicken, ever. I don't fail my casts because I only get hit when I choose to be hit, in general, and when not I know enough to move and wait 2 seconds before I cast so I don't have to do a DC 100 concentration check.

Also, with wizard mana being what it is, it's a great way to empty a mana pool, fast.


What would you sacrifice for it? I don't think there's anything you can justifiably lose for this.

Agreed.

On multiple TRs when you have the spell penetration to do away with a feat or two, you can then maybe fit it in. But you'll be using 1 more feat, the general SPF:Enchantment for the wizard past life spell focus:ALL as well.

sephiroth1084
03-04-2011, 01:21 AM
I do not rely on quicken, ever. I don't fail my casts because I only get hit when I choose to be hit, in general, and when not I know enough to move and wait 2 seconds before I cast so I don't have to do a DC 100 concentration check.

Also, with wizard mana being what it is, it's a great way to empty a mana pool, fast.
There are plenty of situations where Quicken is irreplaceable, particularly on a PM, since the NEB has a long animation.


Agreed.

On multiple TRs when you have the spell penetration to do away with a feat or two, you can then maybe fit it in. But you'll be using 1 more feat, the general SPF:Enchantment for the wizard past life spell focus:ALL as well.
I don't plan on picking up GSF: Enchant even after getting all 3 wiz PLs, though I may change my mind if I don't end up liking wraith form and find the spell pen is enough without any feats.

Rawel_San
03-04-2011, 01:43 AM
I do not rely on quicken, ever. I don't fail my casts because I only get hit when I choose to be hit, in general, and when not I know enough to move and wait 2 seconds before I cast so I don't have to do a DC 100 concentration check.

<snip>


95% percent of the game can be done without quicken and you will never miss it if you know what you're doing. The
remaining 5% it's extremely vital. Try self healing in epic oob without quicken or even more fun soloing elite sins
brute force without it. In a number of the top tier end game quicken is if not absolutely required then at least
extremely useful. If you will do a lot of soloing and intend to get a torc/conc opp's for mana regen and thus do
some tanking quicken is defintely more then worth it.

On the other hand if you will be playing a stay out of the way caster that doesn't really intend to run hard epics or
hard/elite amrath you can probably get by without it. Still in my opinion in many quests lvl 19 and above quicken is
a great boon and especially important for self healing through NEB as sephiroth pointed out.
Just my 2 copper,
Rawel

Solmage
03-04-2011, 02:57 AM
95% percent of the game can be done without quicken and you will never miss it if you know what you're doing. The
remaining 5% it's extremely vital. Try self healing in epic oob without quicken or even more fun soloing elite sins
brute force without it. In a number of the top tier end game quicken is if not absolutely required then at least
extremely useful. If you will do a lot of soloing and intend to get a torc/conc opp's for mana regen and thus do
some tanking quicken is defintely more then worth it.

On the other hand if you will be playing a stay out of the way caster that doesn't really intend to run hard epics or
hard/elite amrath you can probably get by without it. Still in my opinion in many quests lvl 19 and above quicken is
a great boon and especially important for self healing through NEB as sephiroth pointed out.
Just my 2 copper,
Rawel

I AM one of the original sorcerers who learned to solo OOB, and I relied exclusively on heal scrolls and quick movement - no quicken on scrolls as a fleshie afterall - , back when people thought it was near impossible and gave up on it since they were using dozens of pots, and before the epics were nerfed so that any fool with mass hold could do them.

Heck my sorcerer does not even HAVE mass hold loaded now that I think about it, although he has the DCs for it of course.

I also soloed elite sins, easily. Heck this is even such a non-accomplishment among the Sarlona elite that I doubt someone has ever bothered to write 'hey I soloed sins on elite' in the Sarlona forums, ever. I suspect for several other servers it's the same thing.

But that's beside the point really. I firmly believe quicken is simply a crutch (on an arcane - it is very useful on a cleric with mass heal) and one is best served by learning to not rely on it. However, if truly desired, or needed by the individual player, I'd remove the spell focus enchantment, or one spell pen after a TR or two, and get that.

Solmage
03-04-2011, 03:01 AM
There are plenty of situations where Quicken is irreplaceable, particularly on a PM, since the NEB has a long animation.

I disagree with your assessment. If you change the word irreplaceable to 'useful' then I would agree.