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Cholera
02-27-2011, 12:22 PM
Keeping up with WF Casters (Elves and Drow)

I just read a thread on how neglected WF are. I had to chuckle. It did, however, have the effect of getting me to think about some of the current balance issues in the game. So, anyway, nothing too serious or striking here - just a quick couple of ideas to get people talking.

What I’d like to see is something like an enhancement for faster casting and shorter cool down with scrolls for elves and drow. Or, maybe, a UMD skill enhancement line as an expression of their natural affinity to magic. Anything that helped them self-heal faster would go a long way to making them a more viable option in end game. Not that they’re useless in end game, of course – but it would be nice to have a little more to offer a group than maybe 30% fewer HP than WF.

Also, the unique elven SP enhancement line should give much, much more than it currently does (that is, if it hasn't changed since '06). Or, maybe give elves the sorc’s capacity for double SP from items, regardless of class. The pale siblings to Drow, in particular, really could use a boost of some sort – making them the SP-wells of the game might be one option.

Just a few ideas, not married to any of em. What are your ideas, suggestions, questions, comments ... ?


Disclaimer - Yes, the real difference between casters, of course, is the player behind the character. If asked, I would say it is 10% character and 90% player.

voodoogroves
02-27-2011, 12:53 PM
Keeping up with WF Casters (Elves and Drow)

I just read a thread on how neglected WF are. I had to chuckle. It did, however, have the effect of getting me to think about some of the current balance issues in the game. So, anyway, nothing too serious or striking here - just a quick couple of ideas to get people talking.

What I’d like to see is something like an enhancement for faster casting and shorter cool down with scrolls for elves and drow. Or, maybe, a UMD skill enhancement line as an expression of their natural affinity to magic. Anything that helped them self-heal faster would go a long way to making them a more viable option in end game. Not that they’re useless in end game, of course – but it would be nice to have a little more to offer a group than maybe 30% fewer HP than WF.

Also, the unique elven SP enhancement line should give much, much more than it currently does (that is, if it hasn't changed since '06). Or, maybe give elves the sorc’s capacity for double SP from items, regardless of class. The pale siblings to Drow, in particular, really could use a boost of some sort – making them the SP-wells of the game might be one option.

Just a few ideas, not married to any of em. What are your ideas, suggestions, questions, comments ... ?


Disclaimer - Yes, the real difference between casters, of course, is the player behind the character. If asked, I would say it is 10% character and 90% player.

The Elf line is getting a boost in the new release; +1 SP for each tier.

Drow, Half Elf and Humans already can achieve higher DCs. Do they need more? Human and Half Elves are also quite likely to take CON as their second stat and have not many less HP than WF.

Cholera
02-27-2011, 05:27 PM
The Elf line is getting a boost in the new release; +1 SP for each tier.

Drow, Half Elf and Humans already can achieve higher DCs. Do they need more? Human and Half Elves are also quite likely to take CON as their second stat and have not many less HP than WF.

Well, I'm not sure many would agree one additional DC point is as useful as 100+ hp but I suppose that's a matter of opinion.

~Tago_Bane
02-27-2011, 05:33 PM
Well, I'm not sure many would agree one additional DC point is as useful as 100+ hp but I suppose that's a matter of opinion.

well a few more points in con/100+hp is definately not as useful as the ability to self heal which is the true crux of the matter. Choosing a race should never be such a drastic mechanic changing choice. going from quickened recons for 250+ too cure serious pots on a wiz or heal scrolls on a sorc (or a well geared wizard) is not a balanced change by any means and certainly not worth 1 DC.

Sirea
02-27-2011, 07:23 PM
/shrug

I've never thought of my fleshy wizard as inferior to a WF; if I had, I would have TRed her into one instead of a Drow.

All a state of mind, I suppose.

Kadagan
02-27-2011, 07:51 PM
I like War Forged and I enjoy playing an arcane caster... But the best race for a caster now if you run the numbers is a half elf. I'm not going to walk you through it or give it away... but look at what they have to offer.

furbyoats
02-27-2011, 07:57 PM
id trade the fleshies faster scroll throws for a couple dc's on WF sorcs :P

doubledge
02-27-2011, 08:10 PM
my suggestion is to change elven arcane spell succes to something decent.
(given to drow too)



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elven Affinity for Magic

(requires mental toughness)
2 enhancementpoints
(given at level 6)

You have a heratige of high magical arts, and have learnt to channel some of that energy. You receive a +1 dc to all of your spells, and a +5% damage bonus to all of your spells which do damage. Also, you gain an extra 10 mana and are gain +1 umd.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elven Affinity for Magic 2

4 enhancement points
(given at level 12)

You learn more about your herritige, you gain a stacking +1 dc to all of your spells, a +5% stacking damage to all of your damage spells, and a stacking +15 mana. You also gain an additional +1 umd. You also now regenerate mana very, very, stupidly slowly. (1 mana every minute)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elven Affinity for magic 3

6 enhancement points
(given at level 18)

You have memorized your family tree back to the year of the giant's assault. You gain a +1 stacking dc to all of your spells, +10% to all of your damaging spells, and a stacking +25 mana. You also gain +3 stacking umd, and the ability to use the ability "magical frenzy" once per rest.

Magical Frenzy

1/rest

you gain a +20 to all umd (stacks), lasts 1 min. This costs as much as a level 9 spell, and can be influenced by metamagics, however, you are unable to cast any not wand spells, and if contact an antimagic field, will die immediately.


Like it?

Uska
02-27-2011, 08:14 PM
well a few more points in con/100+hp is definately not as useful as the ability to self heal which is the true crux of the matter. Choosing a race should never be such a drastic mechanic changing choice. going from quickened recons for 250+ too cure serious pots on a wiz or heal scrolls on a sorc (or a well geared wizard) is not a balanced change by any means and certainly not worth 1 DC.

just go go pale master or a caster with umd and you have selfheal

hityawithastick
02-27-2011, 08:25 PM
I was in crystal cove tossing firewalls on skeletons. I'd drop a death aura, pick up a shield, and camp out in the wall.

Meanwhile the warforged caster was trying to halt undead the skellies to keep them from attacking him. Lucky for him I prepped reconstruct :D

stille_nacht
02-27-2011, 08:35 PM
I was in crystal cove tossing firewalls on skeletons. I'd drop a death aura, pick up a shield, and camp out in the wall.

Meanwhile the warforged caster was trying to halt undead the skellies to keep them from attacking him. Lucky for him I prepped reconstruct :D

wow, must have been a reaaaaallly bad WF caster if he didnt have reconstruct himself, not to mention that he could do the exact same thing you are doing...

~Tago_Bane
02-27-2011, 09:00 PM
just go go pale master or a caster with umd and you have selfheal

true you could go pale master but a palemaster is far less effective than Recon at spike (emphasis on spike) healing. And heal scrolls are slow and can be interrupted. Plz don't get me wrong I play 2 fleshy casters. Wouldn't roll a WF personally (just me) but on a Wizard a WF has a clear drastic mechanical advantage of being able to restore they're hp while in dire straights. A sorc, well if you are careful you could make do with heal scrolls and the -2 to DCs is a bigger deal especially since Sorcs have gimp DCs to begin with so it's more of an actual choice imo; though the surviability you get from just being a WF, the drastic difference from any other race is clearly over the top but what can we do this is Ebberron after-all.

Though a nice trade off is that if you are a WF healers will expect you too heal yourself and would have a hard time healing you even if they wanted too. Were as a Fleshy gets full babysitting rights.

~Tago_Bane
02-27-2011, 09:02 PM
wow, must have been a reaaaaallly bad WF caster if he didnt have reconstruct himself, not to mention that he could do the exact same thing you are doing...

lol I solo that stuff with my fleshy archmage who's sitting at 280 hps. Displacement+stoneskin is all you need the mobs are so weak. + a cure serious pot here or there. Bad WF caster is not the word for it..... probably a 6 year old.

Bogenbroom
02-27-2011, 09:33 PM
To be honest I have never found my WF wizzy to be any more survivable than my squishy ones, despite the self healing and better hp. I do umd all of my fleshies, so that does help.

hityawithastick
02-27-2011, 09:35 PM
Displacement+stoneskin is all you need the mobs are so weak. + a inflict serious pot here or there.

Much better this way. :cool:

~Tago_Bane
02-27-2011, 09:53 PM
To be honest I have never found my WF wizzy to be any more survivable than my squishy ones, despite the self healing and better hp. I do umd all of my fleshies, so that does help.

do you not have quicken?

~Tago_Bane
02-27-2011, 10:10 PM
Much better this way. :cool:

really all the cool kids are doing it you say..... *shifty eyes*

hityawithastick
02-27-2011, 10:21 PM
really all the cool kids are doing it you say..... *shifty eyes*

>_>


cool kids are doing it you say..... *shifty eyes*

>_>;


*shifty eyes*

>_>;;;

Shifty eyes are creeping me out.... :eek:

Claransa
02-27-2011, 11:01 PM
true you could go pale master but a palemaster is far less effective than Recon at spike (emphasis on spike) healing. And heal scrolls are slow and can be interrupted. Plz don't get me wrong I play 2 fleshy casters. Wouldn't roll a WF personally (just me) but on a Wizard a WF has a clear drastic mechanical advantage of being able to restore they're hp while in dire straights. A sorc, well if you are careful you could make do with heal scrolls and the -2 to DCs is a bigger deal especially since Sorcs have gimp DCs to begin with so it's more of an actual choice imo; though the surviability you get from just being a WF, the drastic difference from any other race is clearly over the top but what can we do this is Ebberron after-all.

Though a nice trade off is that if you are a WF healers will expect you too heal yourself and would have a hard time healing you even if they wanted too. Were as a Fleshy gets full babysitting rights.

On a level 20 drow palemaster i spike heal with negative energy burst for 238 (or there abouts) how does that compare to the spike heal of a WF?

~Tago_Bane
02-27-2011, 11:10 PM
On a level 20 drow palemaster i spike heal with negative energy burst for 238 (or there abouts) how does that compare to the spike heal of a WF?

well on a non-recon focused wizard I hit for 270 with a clicky I'd say you could easily hit for 300+ if your life was dependant on it. and it's much cheaper than that palemaster. I'm not sure if you would hit for that much every cast either though I'm no palemaster expert, I just watch them die alot when I'm on my fvs, enough that I grabbed inflict Serious wounds spell. *omg the range and facing restrictions on it is obsurd too*

Edit: more too the point even with good self healing with palemasters that's resticts competitive survivability too one class and one pre inside that class. I'm not saying WF are the end all be all for casters, what I am saying is that no other race choice has as great of an impact of well rounded survivablity for any other class and drastically so. That there is no other class you can play in the game that the choice of race will have such a severe impact on the creation of the character both playstyle and statistics. This in my mind is wrong though since Stormreach is an ebborron city I see little we can do to change it. Even by making the other races better at another aspect of casting the width between the races in this choice will remain broad.

Failedlegend
02-27-2011, 11:27 PM
I like War Forged and I enjoy playing an arcane caster... But the best race for a caster now if you run the numbers is a half elf. I'm not going to walk you through it or give it away... but look at what they have to offer.

Yeah with their ability take the human boosts they end up with the same Con Mod as WF and the same Cha mod as Drow (note i specified mod nto score..wf and drow end up with an odd number at max while half=elf and humans end up with an even number but the same mod) add the ability for some funky pseudo multiclasses (i favor paladin for a sorc...easy early healing to get you through that gap where you have little UMD and +5 to all saves is ridiculous)

I'm really considering purchasing Half-Elf to roll up a Sorc (I also gotta LR my Wiz...he's kinda been a guinea pig for various things including trapmaking and his feats are all out of wak) but I'm waiting on two things 1) DDO isn't working for me right now so well i cant play :P 2) Elemental Savant in the next update if its awesome ill probably grab H-Elf if its me I'll just LR my WF Wiz to fix him up and stick with him (Warforged are still the kings of being though casters)

Joseph
02-28-2011, 03:01 AM
For a Sorc, I would only roll up a Half-Elf.

For a Wizard (Archmage PRE) I would only roll up a WF

For a Wizard (Pale Master PRE) I would only roll up a fleshie (likely Drow for the flavor, but I agree that a Half-Elf would be better).

My WF wizard, at level 8, has a base HP of about 110. When he self buffs he can easily hit 140+ (7 Minute False Life + an Aid item - Divine). That does not even include the use of static false life items (like Greater False Life). So, when I can get the exact same things as a fleshie, plus I can easily self heal, and by level 10 I will easily have a standing 200-250HP, I will always choose a WF for my Archmage Wizards.

Bogenbroom
02-28-2011, 03:09 PM
do you not have quicken?

Usually. Not always. I think, thought it has to do with a couple of things...

- My oldest casters at low (10 base) Con UMD squishies. So I got pretty good at avoiding damage.
- My WF tend to run out of SP faster... probably because of the self healing, despite the fact my highest WF Wiz is an Evoker, who uses the two MM freebies a great deal.

~Tago_Bane
03-01-2011, 12:09 PM
Usually. Not always. I think, thought it has to do with a couple of things...

- My oldest casters at low (10 base) Con UMD squishies. So I got pretty good at avoiding damage.
- My WF tend to run out of SP faster... probably because of the self healing, despite the fact my highest WF Wiz is an Evoker, who uses the two MM freebies a great deal.

yeah my casters are both pretty squishy casters ones a wiz working on decent umd and sure you can survive but you have to be way more careful than a wf with quickened recon right? and when you're in say EOOB when all the mobs are on you a WF is way less squishy right?