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darthkaz
02-26-2011, 03:41 PM
So I was wondering if you guys post LFM's and get a weird class build wanting to apply, do you accept or go no way man! And if you do which weird class make up would make you go no way!

I'll go first: AA archer! LOL (Kinda an inside joke with my wife, xenva) I meant know disrespect to any capable AA archers out there.....maybe :)

Ok really tough I always thought an 10wiz/10 Clr was really weird.....

Lithic
02-26-2011, 03:57 PM
I'll accept anyone not on my "These guilds suck" list (currently composed of a certain group of cynical dancing enthusiasts, and a certain military assembly from the starter island). If they die in the first two runs, they are out.

AylinIsAwesome
03-01-2011, 02:50 PM
I'll take anyone unless I've run with them before (and I know they aren't good), or if they're part of one of the two guilds on my server that simply just invite anyone they meet.

doubledge
03-01-2011, 02:53 PM
gimp. it's a class.

Phidius
03-01-2011, 02:55 PM
Personal/Guild reputation alone determines whether or not I'll hit the "Decline" button. As long as the player behind the toon has the ability to play the game, I'll take anything.

Except for that 1% of the game where party composition is really important, but I don't put up LFMs for those (much).

Sarisa
03-01-2011, 03:08 PM
The rare times I post an LFM, I'll take anyone provided:
They're not a known no-amp sponge WF melee who will cost me several pots to keep him alive.
They can at least understand English enough to work with the group.
They're not a stereotypical kiter-AA who can't manage their aggro.
They're not a member of my personal "Do Not Group" list, which is only 3 entries.

I'll cringe sometimes if a Pale Master joins, but that's not because of the classes playstyle or anything wrong with the player, it's because their aura's sound is so obnoxious I have to turn off sound effects.

Rheebus
03-09-2011, 09:32 PM
Sometimes I send tells to requesting players with a "What role do you fill" question. It can spark a nice discussion. I almost never deny entrance based on a class configuration. Who knows, I might learn something interesting from the exchange.

Also, I have a 16Sor/2Pal/2Rog who I love to play and who gets declined from groups. I am assuming it is for his class combo because I am awesome. Well, maybe not awesome, but at least capable. Especially when he tanks VoD. :)) So, I am a bit biased in favor of strange class combos.

Dave

Chris79
03-09-2011, 09:54 PM
Two


1. AAs who haven't realised that they got TWF for free and should USE IT

2. FvS or Cleric evenly split with sorc levels (yes some have done that)...you can't cast, you can't heal - what exactly will you do in my group?

doubledge
03-09-2011, 09:58 PM
Two

2. FvS or Cleric evenly split with sorc levels (yes some have done that)...you can't cast, you can't heal - what exactly will you do in my group?

melee?

Riorik
03-09-2011, 10:00 PM
The only class I accept is Lumberjack.

FlyingTurtle
03-09-2011, 11:48 PM
Real Analysis.

No, wait...

Dandonk
03-09-2011, 11:51 PM
Real Analysis.

No, wait...

Real Analysis wasn't so bad. Differential Geometry, though.... /smackheadhardagainstwallrepeatedly

Jaid314
03-09-2011, 11:59 PM
Sometimes I send tells to requesting players with a "What role do you fill" question. It can spark a nice discussion. I almost never deny entrance based on a class configuration. Who knows, I might learn something interesting from the exchange.

Also, I have a 16Sor/2Pal/2Rog who I love to play and who gets declined from groups. I am assuming it is for his class combo because I am awesome. Well, maybe not awesome, but at least capable. Especially when he tanks VoD. :)) So, I am a bit biased in favor of strange class combos.

Dave

meh, that's not an incomprehensible build or anything. i wouldn't play it personally, but i can see the logic behind it, and wouldn't have any major problems with bringing you on most quests (i wouldn't be terribly excited about having such a build in an epic group, where mass hold monster is pretty much everything, but that's beside the point).

Entelech
03-10-2011, 12:03 AM
Barbarians.

I was traumatized by a series of Barbarians on my first character, a dwarven Cleric. Now, I avoid them, even when I am not playing a healing class.

Nothing quite like having a Warforged Barbarian with no Healer's Friend and no AC in an Irestone Elite run at level 5. Especially when he THINKS 'High Hitpoints = Tank."

They still give me the heebie jeebies.

jillie
03-10-2011, 01:45 AM
12<melee>/8<arcane>
or the other way around
the BAB is too low for anything past the desert, and arcanes have a DC of useless

SynalonEtuul
03-10-2011, 02:12 AM
the BAB is too low for anything past the desert

This seems unlikely

Anthios888
03-10-2011, 02:21 AM
I love weird builds. The weirder the better. And the scarier the guild the better. Makes for more of an "adventure."

The ones I decline are the proven ********.

Noctus
03-10-2011, 08:49 AM
When i do pug i am specifically not aiming for fast&efficient blitzkrieging the quests. Thats what shortmanning with guildies and chennelguys is for.

I pug for the social aspects and the occasional lulz when i see how other people play. So everyone is welcome, especially the "wild ones".

Talon_Moonshadow
03-10-2011, 09:41 AM
I accept anyone; usually the first five who want to join.

And usually have a great party that succeeds.

A little pet peave of mine is that far too often, when the going gets tough, the tough get going......right out of the dungeon. :mad:

But another pet peave is people who join a group for a difficult quest, with no idea what they are in for....no desire to struggle with a challenge.
And worse......bring no healing with them what-so-ever.

The Multi-classed guys tend to be more self sufficient. Which is nice.
I would gladly do any quest with a full party of Rangers. Especially AAs.

The people that give me the most problems are Half Orc Barbarians....with wings next to their names...
Guaranteed to only want to run quests at full speed, Hasted and healed, and to drop group at the first sign of anything that will hurt his XP/Minute.

PNellesen
03-10-2011, 09:41 AM
No specific classes or mixes, but DEAR GOD I facepalm when a Level 20 Rogue or Arcane (or any other class, for that matter) with 200hp and zero fort joins the Shroud group when I'm playing my cleric. Really - one shot from Harry and you're dead before the Mass Heal hits? Sigh. I guess it's a good thing, though - I don't have to worry about them after that, at least in Part 4 (though they tend to whine piteously when I won't raise them in Part 5 only to have them die again 3 seconds later ;) )

Asketes
03-10-2011, 09:52 AM
Barbarians.

I was traumatized by a series of Barbarians on my first character, a dwarven Cleric. Now, I avoid them, even when I am not playing a healing class.

Nothing quite like having a Warforged Barbarian with no Healer's Friend and no AC in an Irestone Elite run at level 5. Especially when he THINKS 'High Hitpoints = Tank."

They still give me the heebie jeebies.

lol where do I start

1) high hp and dps is a tank in this game
2) warforged generally should NOT take more than healer's friend 1
3) people need to keep themselves healed up (at that level it's extremely easy to)
4) you avoid some of the best dps in the game then
5) /sigh at lvl 5 you won't be much of a healer lol
6) when you get heal, it's fairly easy to keep up any half-decent wf

Bodic
03-10-2011, 10:01 AM
12<melee>/8<arcane>
or the other way around
the BAB is too low for anything past the desert, and arcanes have a DC of useless


This seems unlikely

/Agreed they have a clicky for BAB and FW has no DC

Bodic
03-10-2011, 10:04 AM
Irestone Elite run at level 20 for favor and Ioun stones only

This

Malison
03-10-2011, 10:07 AM
Sometimes I send tells to requesting players with a "What role do you fill" question. It can spark a nice discussion. I almost never deny entrance based on a class configuration. Who knows, I might learn something interesting from the exchange.

I like this question. It's a lot friendlier than the "What are you" types I've gotten on my stranger builds.

re: OP, I'll usually take any class combinations unless I need the spot for a key role they can't fill. It really is fun to see crazy ideas working. Definitely a lot more fun than seeing cookie-cutter builds failing. The most impressive toons I've seen have been a 8/6/6 stun/AA/tank and a pure wizard intimi.

Atree
03-10-2011, 10:14 AM
When I post an LFM I take the first 5 people that hit it and meet the very basic requirement of being in the level range I specified. I will generally auto-decline anyone above or below that range unless they first send a tell asking if it is permissable. I will also start heading to the quest and enter it as soon as I get to the entrance, adding "- in progress" to the LFM description.

I have had occasions where I forgot to take down the LFM upon completion and only notice when someone applies. In such cases I will decline, remove the LFM and send an appologetic tell.

In the f2p quests I expect at least half the puggers will contribe mainly to dungeon scaling, dungeon alert and -10%xp making the quest more of a fun challenge. If even one proves capable and actually helps out that is a wonderful surprise.

I don't have a mic, but will go out of my way to type "Hi" to every new joiner. I respond to questions, type warnings about upcoming traps/ambushes, offer advice, try to keep as much agro as I can on myself to spare the squishies and throw mass cures/bursts instead of just self-healing. I make a point of explaining where quest-givers are rather than sharing, and I refuse to play as a nanybot or heal stupid. I'm probably a very mean meany head, but I actually enjoy seeing how many players manage to get lost and die in creative ways despite all that. It also amuses me no end to hear/read players complain that the group can't possibly succeed since we don't have a <insert class here> on the team yet.

brian14
03-10-2011, 10:31 AM
Sometimes I send tells to requesting players with a "What role do you fill" question. It can spark a nice discussion. I almost never deny entrance based on a class configuration. Who knows, I might learn something interesting from the exchange.
Interesting. Nobody asked me that, but if someone did I would answer something like this (yes, I am AA):

Neutralize Poison, FoM, Energy Resistance for anyone who wants them
Put Improved Curse hat on every mob (rapid target switching)
Paralyzer bow + Imbue Terror Arrows for trash
In Phase 1 hose portals with GCB bow + Imbue Force Burst arrows
Several targeted TWF sets during multishot cooldown, including destruction, improved destruction, vorpal, WoP, icy burst holy burst of PG, etc. Mostly rapiers and short swords, as I have Weapon Finesse.
DPS one Shavarath Lieutenant with appropriate bow/arrows -- I've done it alone with Kassquick, Anur-Shub and Damasze. And if I do that, keyword is one.
In Phase 4 and 5 hose Harry with GS Lightning Bow (still Tier 2) + Deneith silver arrows
Take down gnolls as soon as they appear

Zaviticus
03-10-2011, 10:44 AM
I'll accept anyone not on my "These guilds suck" list (currently composed of a certain group of cynical dancing enthusiasts, and a certain military assembly from the starter island). If they die in the first two runs, they are out.

Well played sir :)

invrstprkin
03-10-2011, 11:07 AM
Not letting people into a party simply because of the build of their character is the kind of thing that discourages people from creating builds that could be (if done right) a great asset to any group, however i do agree with the fact that even if you have the most killer build ever created and dont know how to use it that it wont do much good but hey if i want to make a half favored soul/half monk (which pretty much everything ive read says its a bad idea) im going to do it, and i would like to think i wouldnt have to play the whole game alone if i did. . .

shadow_419
03-10-2011, 11:16 AM
lol where do I start

1) high hp and dps is a tank in this game
2) warforged generally should NOT take more than healer's friend 1
3) people need to keep themselves healed up (at that level it's extremely easy to)
4) you avoid some of the best dps in the game then
5) /sigh at lvl 5 you won't be much of a healer lol
6) when you get heal, it's fairly easy to keep up any half-decent wf


Why would you not want to be as healer friendly as possible, unless you're an arcane that can self repair? I have a wf barbarian, and the 20 hp and slightly shorter rages i give up for extra healing is perfectly acceptable.

Thrudh
03-10-2011, 11:47 AM
12<melee>/8<arcane>
or the other way around
the BAB is too low for anything past the desert, and arcanes have a DC of useless

Although those characters are hard to play, a 12/8 melee/arcane can be solid...

I had a 12/8 ranger/wizard once that had no problem hitting anything in the non-epic quests or raids (never played him in epic).

Of course his DC was useless, but his buffs worked just fine... Self-cast rage, displacement, haste, fire-shield, blur, and shield were quite useful

Thrudh
03-10-2011, 11:49 AM
99% of the time, I take the first 5 that want to come along (there are a FEW quests where might require a rogue or a healer).

I take any class combo (but I've never seen a 6/6 or 7/7, etc. cleric/sorc before... I might actually pause for a second if that combo ever came up... but I'm sure I'd take them just to see what happens)

Postumus
03-10-2011, 11:55 AM
lol where do I start


2) warforged generally should NOT take more than healer's friend 1
3) people need to keep themselves healed up (at that level it's extremely easy to)
6) when you get heal, it's fairly easy to keep up any half-decent wf



2- If a player doesn't want the full benefit of a mass clw/csw, then that's on him.

3- Many players DON'T keep themselves healed up at any level.

6- Even so, a poorly constructed WF can be a mana sponge.


The only class-race combo that makes me wince when I play my cleric or sorc is WF barbarian. Can someone build a good WF barbarian? Sure. But my personal experience is that this type of character- in PUGs - is potentially more difficult to deal with than others.

protokon
03-10-2011, 12:01 PM
Why would you not want to be as healer friendly as possible, unless you're an arcane that can self repair? I have a wf barbarian, and the 20 hp and slightly shorter rages i give up for extra healing is perfectly acceptable.

That's only cause I've verbally abused you the few times I healed you while you were tanking Horoth ;)

<3 Belsenn

Asketes
03-10-2011, 12:13 PM
Why would you not want to be as healer friendly as possible, unless you're an arcane that can self repair? I have a wf barbarian, and the 20 hp and slightly shorter rages i give up for extra healing is perfectly acceptable.

4 AP for 5% isn't worth it.

I generally take I and II on permaforged, but that's b/c that 5% turns into 9% with some of the gear I wear (adds instead of multiplies)

think about it.. a cure mod probably hits a normal fleshy for maybe 30-40
so take 30

HF I - 30 x 0.65 = 19.5
HF II - 30 x 0.70 = 21

for a lvl 5 barb with 130-150 hp.. 2 hp isn't worth 4 ap at that level.

take an 850 hp barb with a heal for what 450?

HF I - 450 x .65 = 292.5
HF II - 450 x .70 = 315

not a great difference.

fortunately a well played barb doesn't sit at 65% or 70%

my wf sits at 90% with ship buffs, or 80% without at lvl 2 and at lvl 16 I hit 150/140% healing amp

will be 160%/150% when I'm done tr'ing.


Not all warforged will get that much, but with HF1 and leviks bracers they can get close to being normal at least.

0.65 x 1.2 = .78 = 78% healing amp.

even if they go to HFIII for TEN extra points

.75 x 1.2 = 0.9 x 450 = 405 heal
.65 x 1.2 = 0.78 x 450 = 351 heal

50 hp ain't too too big of a deal when ya sit at 850-1100 hp and you play your guy right.

thankfully, i sit at above 100 though ;)
ANY melee WF that doesn't take healers friend I is a let down.. they can use my math against me and with gear it works fine, but 15% is really really cheap for 2AP

Asketes
03-10-2011, 12:15 PM
2- If a player doesn't want the full benefit of a mass clw/csw, then that's on him.
it's impossible and completely improbably to ask someone to fork over that many AP for a benefit the healer at that level will not notice.
3- Many players DON'T keep themselves healed up at any level.
this is true
6- Even so, a poorly constructed WF can be a mana sponge.
a poorly constructed anything IS a mana sponge

The only class-race combo that makes me wince when I play my cleric or sorc is WF barbarian. Can someone build a good WF barbarian? Sure. But my personal experience is that this type of character- in PUGs - is potentially more difficult to deal with than others.

see red above for my comments

and see the post before this one for my answer to your wf barbarian info and other HF letdowns/rundowns

shadow_419
03-10-2011, 12:37 PM
That's only cause I've verbally abused you the few times I healed you while you were tanking Horoth ;)

<3 Belsenn

Gimp Fvs forgot where his heal button was. :)

<3 Arko

Osma77
03-10-2011, 12:41 PM
Only BUILD (not player) that i have ever seen that really ****ed me enough to boot them was a 3cleric/2barbarian who didnt heal through devils assault, and later explained that he didnt heal because his spells wouldn't work. Turns out he had a 10 wisdom.

Although i won't boot them, and i have seen it done well, i get really, really scared every time i see a cleric with fighter levels. About 50% of them seem to think this is pen and paper and "I can heal you after the fight, let me go swing my battleaxe." When the LFM says "healer needed" that means we have enough dps, we need a HEALER, not someone who will run to the front line with us.

Other then that, i am easy going, and will let anyone in. However, if you are 9 years old, and are "uber l33t" you will NOT last long. I dont care that your level 4 ranger can kill any barbarian level 9 in the game with your mad skills, if you cant stay with the party, and if you run headlong into traps that i TOLD you about FOUR TIMES then i wont keep you around.

Noob of the day:
Leader: OK people, we are starting the first quest of waterworks. For those who havent done it, the first door is trapped.
[2 min later]
Leader: ok, lets buff up and kill these first mobs. dont forget, the door is trapped. leave it to the rogue.
[30 seconds later]
Rogue: TRAP TRAP TRAP, STOP!!!!
Cleric: WHOA! that door has an acid trap that killed me. When did that get there, i have done this quest 50 times and it was never there before!

voodoogroves
03-10-2011, 12:44 PM
I take anyone generally speaking. I have a very small list of people on my DNG list.

In my experience, the build is a small part - the player is more. Plus on Ghallanda you can often see vet-like folks trying out odd things or doing LRs before a TR that makes for some interesting-looking builds. Are they still capable? Yes.

shadow_419
03-10-2011, 12:57 PM
4 AP for 5% isn't worth it.

I generally take I and II on permaforged, but that's b/c that 5% turns into 9% with some of the gear I wear (adds instead of multiplies)

...snip...
even if they go to HFIII for TEN extra points

.75 x 1.2 = 0.9 x 450 = 405 heal
.65 x 1.2 = 0.78 x 450 = 351 heal

50 hp ain't too too big of a deal when ya sit at 850-1100 hp and you play your guy right.

thankfully, i sit at above 100 though ;)
ANY melee WF that doesn't take healers friend I is a let down.. they can use my math against me and with gear it works fine, but 15% is really really cheap for 2AP


Getting as high as possible over 100 is the goal though, as that's where you'll see the biggest gains.

.75 x 1.1 x 1.2 = 0.99 x 450 = 445 heal

Nearly 100 hp more healed using your math is nothing to sneeze at, and that's still low for what is possible.

Asketes
03-10-2011, 12:59 PM
Getting as high as possible over 100 is the goal though, as that's where you'll see the biggest gains.

.75 x 1.1 x 1.2 = 0.99 x 450 = 445 heal

Nearly 100 hp more healed using your math is nothing to sneeze at, and that's still low for what is possible.


um my math didn't account for a 1.1, so your point is moot. I specifically gave the bare minimums for a reason which are: 0.65 x 1.2 (hf1 and leviks) f

i wasn't arguing with the idea that healing amp is worthless. but you ask anyone to take 10AP out of their build for 50hp on a heal. they will laugh at you for the next century.

at end I sit at:

normal quest/raiding
0.70 (hf II & finger) x 1.05 (pally PL I) x 1.2 (DT armor) x 1.1 (dt armor) = just about 97% (add around 10% for ship buff for ~107%)

when heals are tight:
.8 (hfII & finger) x 1.05 (pally PL I) x 1.2 (DT armor) x 1.1 (dt armor) x 1.3 (trip pos GS or epic gloves of claw) = 144 (add 10% for ship buff for ~ 155%)

450 x 1.55 = 697 heal :D I love those

once I hit 16 i switch to cure pots. it's hilarious when people ask me why I'm not using repair pots and I have to tell them that cure pots heal me more ;)

shadow_419
03-10-2011, 01:32 PM
um my math didn't account for a 1.1, so your point is moot. I specifically gave the bare minimums for a reason which are: 0.65 x 1.2 (hf1 and leviks) f

i wasn't arguing with the idea that healing amp is worthless. but you ask anyone to take 10AP out of their build for 50hp on a heal. they will laugh at you for the next century.

at end I sit at:

normal quest/raiding
0.80 (hf II & finger) x 1.05 (pally PL I) x 1.2 (DT armor) x 1.1 (dt armor) = just about 110% (add around 10% for ship buff for ~122%) correction

when heals are tight:
.8 (hfII & finger) x 1.05 (pally PL I) x 1.2 (DT armor) x 1.1 (dt armor) x 1.3 (trip pos GS or epic gloves of claw) = 144 (add 10% for ship buff for ~ 155%)

450 x 1.55 = 697 heal :D I love those

once I hit 16 i switch to cure pots. it's hilarious when people ask me why I'm not using repair pots and I have to tell them that cure pots heal me more ;)

1.1 I included accounts for the easiest to get sources of 10% (Either DT or ship buff)

That's the problem. When you think of it as 10 AP for 50 hp/heal, it's like you say ridiculous sounding. When it's a 10% increase towards the goal of having a positive healing amp number, it's not so ridiculous anymore.

Asketes
03-10-2011, 02:53 PM
1.1 I included accounts for the easiest to get sources of 10% (Either DT or ship buff)

That's the problem. When you think of it as 10 AP for 50 hp/heal, it's like you say ridiculous sounding. When it's a 10% increase towards the goal of having a positive healing amp number, it's not so ridiculous anymore.

till they lose con or toughness or something more valuable.

it's both

10AP for 50hp
and
10% closer to positive

fair enough on why you included 10%, good catch.. :)

Dematto
03-10-2011, 02:55 PM
I generally accept the first 5 to request, unless I have some foreknowledge of the quest (traps on a hard/elite run, etc). As a healer, the biggest problem I usually run in to is keeping up Arcanes, Rogues and Rangers. I had a guy yelling at me the other day after I spoonfed him my entire mana bar to keep him on his feet (poor decision, I know), he died anyway. Shrined, then next fight he died and I let him stay dead until the fight was over. His response was to go check out the armory or whatever it is and call me out "Dude, you don't have the stats or gear to heal, you should probably not be here until you get it." I calmly asked him what gear I should have that would boost casting. "Potency", he said. "Got Devotion 6, that covers the 3 spells I use." "Up your charisma" he said. "29SP/2Cha, if I had 20 more charisma, that'd be, what, 290 SP? That's ....4 more heals per shrine? Not bad, but not a lot for how expensive it would be" "Well, LR or something, you suck."

:( He went on the list.

. I've seen people come down on guilds before. In fact, before my FvS was in the guild I'm in now, I used to hear people cry about the guild all the time, saying it was full of losers and people who didn't know how to play, etc. But, ultimately, I probably won't hold that against someone unless the Guild somehow gets proven to be full of griefers. I just joined for the airship. I generalize that to you as well, and assume you just joined for the airship.

In fact, that's probably one of the reasons I ended up joining; it IS a guild that just admits anybody, which means the roster is colossal and the shipbuffs are paid for by someone else. Sure, it can't support it's growth on Renown anymore, and has lost Level 61 every day for the last 3 weeks. That's not my fault, I've pointed out the problem dozens of times, and get told to shut up, that I'm making the basic math worse by talking about it.
/rant end

Thrudh
03-10-2011, 03:05 PM
you can often see vet-like folks trying out odd things or doing LRs before a TR that makes for some interesting-looking builds. Are they still capable? Yes.

Heh, I'm LRing three times to change a 18/1/1 cleric/fighter/wizard into a 10/8/1 wizard/cleric/fighter... Then I'll TR (because wizard past life is about 10x better than a cleric past life).

I wasn't planning on actually PLAYING this guy as I LR, but maybe I should try to join some groups during those three weeks for fun...

Week 1 - 15/4/1 cleric/wizard/fighter
Week 2 - 12/7/1 cleric/wizard/fighter
Week 3 - 9/10/1 cleric/wizard/fighter

SmashBang
03-10-2011, 03:18 PM
the only one that bothers me is a rogue splash that can not open locks at all.

doing an offering of blood and needed someone to open locks for max loot possible, fighter with a rogue splash joined. At the first locked door we are waiting and the figther/rogue says "is someone going to open this?" We tell him that is his job

his reply " oh I can't open lock, I took rogue splash just to disable traps"

***? Take a splash of rogue and skip 1 of the 2 skills that splash provides????

Anthios888
03-10-2011, 05:04 PM
And if you do which weird class make up would make you go no way!

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/3/7/1299483857867/phpc65MIzPM.jpg

Postumus
03-10-2011, 05:59 PM
4 AP for 5% isn't worth it.

I generally take I and II on permaforged, but that's b/c that 5% turns into 9% with some of the gear I wear (adds instead of multiplies)

think about it.. a cure mod probably hits a normal fleshy for maybe 30-40
so take 30

HF I - 30 x 0.65 = 19.5
HF II - 30 x 0.70 = 21

for a lvl 5 barb with 130-150 hp.. 2 hp isn't worth 4 ap at that level.

take an 850 hp barb with a heal for what 450?

HF I - 450 x .65 = 292.5
HF II - 450 x .70 = 315

not a great difference.

fortunately a well played barb doesn't sit at 65% or 70%

my wf sits at 90% with ship buffs, or 80% without at lvl 2 and at lvl 16 I hit 150/140% healing amp

will be 160%/150% when I'm done tr'ing.


Not all warforged will get that much, but with HF1 and leviks bracers they can get close to being normal at least.

0.65 x 1.2 = .78 = 78% healing amp.

even if they go to HFIII for TEN extra points

.75 x 1.2 = 0.9 x 450 = 405 heal
.65 x 1.2 = 0.78 x 450 = 351 heal

50 hp ain't too too big of a deal when ya sit at 850-1100 hp and you play your guy right.

thankfully, i sit at above 100 though ;)
ANY melee WF that doesn't take healers friend I is a let down.. they can use my math against me and with gear it works fine, but 15% is really really cheap for 2AP

You do a good job supporting your argument here for higher level heals. At low level though, that 65% is brutal on divine sps.


I still wince when I see the WF barbarian join and think "you couldn't have rolled a half-orc? Really?"

azrael4h
03-10-2011, 06:01 PM
the only one that bothers me is a rogue splash that can not open locks at all.

doing an offering of blood and needed someone to open locks for max loot possible, fighter with a rogue splash joined. At the first locked door we are waiting and the figther/rogue says "is someone going to open this?" We tell him that is his job

his reply " oh I can't open lock, I took rogue splash just to disable traps"

***? Take a splash of rogue and skip 1 of the 2 skills that splash provides????

And how many skill points do Fighters get? It takes 2 to keep up DD, and since you need search as well, there's 2 more gone. So the Fighter needs to spend a total of 6 skill points in order to justify the rogue splash (which is more often taken for evasion and UMD than traps or locks). To be frank, I'd take UMD before Open lock, since there's so few areas that actually need it in any capacity. Next time, ask if the Rogue splash can do locks, or specify in the LFM that you want a locksmith only. Maybe on a Bard or Ranger, who get a good number of skill points, but Fighters I'd assume they hit the splash for evasion and UMD.

I tend to take the first 5 that join, regardless of class or build. I do, however, tend to accept Rogues more readily since I understand they can have issues finding groups. I tend to not accept Rangers as readily, as they can easily be one of the most messed up classes in the games (I know the strengths of one, it's just that far too many are too poorly built to make it worth the slot). And I've yet to find a Horc who isn't squishy, so I'm getting more and more wary of them as well.

Some of the best players I've had the fortune to group with have had off-the-wall builds like Sorc12/Pal6/Rog2 or some such. So I'm not bothered by those mixes usually.

Anthios888
03-10-2011, 06:05 PM
And how many skill points do Fighters get? It takes 2 to keep up DD, and since you need search as well, there's 2 more gone. So the Fighter needs to spend a total of 6 skill points in order to justify the rogue splash (which is more often taken for evasion and UMD than traps or locks). To be frank, I'd take UMD before Open lock, since there's so few areas that actually need it in any capacity. Next time, ask if the Rogue splash can do locks, or specify in the LFM that you want a locksmith only.

This would be true if you needed more than 4 ranks in OL to get most locks in the game. Easily achievable at level 1 rogue.

Asketes
03-10-2011, 06:42 PM
You do a good job supporting your argument here for higher level heals. At low level though, that 65% is brutal on divine sps.
but still that's my point exactly, at the high lvls you actually are more inclined from both the healer and the wf for getting the better HF, but at the low level, when AP are very critical, it can amount to 5 more hp... which means it's the melee's jobs on healing themselves.


I still wince when I see the WF barbarian join and think "you couldn't have rolled a half-orc? Really?"this last statment makes zero sense, both are highly viable races for melee DPS

I realize I've been around for a while and have plenty of money to buy things like hundreds of rep serious. but up until lvl 10 and usually just about anywhere. I tell the healers that unless you see me below 50% health, to not even bother healing me. I'll take care of myself

Cairo
03-12-2011, 12:26 PM
Two


1. AAs who haven't realised that they got TWF for free and should USE IT

This bugs me. I dont get why people hate on AAs for not meleeing.
Theyve spent EVERY SINGLE AP they have on AA enhancements, and have some nice bonuses.

Yes, they get TWF, ITWF, and GTWF for free.

They also get Bow Strength, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Precise Shot, Imp. Precise Shot for free.

They get MORE archery feats for free than melee feats, yet if they dont ignore all their archery feats, weapons, APs, bonuses, etc the entire time theyre playing except for 20 seconds every 2 minutes, theyre bad players?

I play a tempest, and Ive played an AA as well. My AA almost never meleed and my tempest rarely pulls a bow. Why? Cause my AA's Silver Bow with Imbued Arrows outdamages his weaker melee weapons, and my Tempest's Silver Bow with Silver Arrows doesnt outdamage his dual Min IIs, and wouldnt come CLOSE to outdamaging dual Lit IIs.


Hating on AAs for actually using ranged is like hating on HOs for being anything other than THF Barbs.

SlogUK
03-12-2011, 01:49 PM
If I see 19 wiz one sorc, or 19 barb 1 cleric or similar then I will accept only if I know the group and people in it well enough to know that I can help the guy learn the quest. I'll then accept him, be nice to him, try and explain what his role would be if so and so wasn't doing it, and at the end, part on good terms. Then 2 minutes later I'll pm him an "oh and I was wondering about your build". This opens a discussion where I can try and disabuse him of any notions he may have wrongly had to make that choice. And hey,i might learn something.

nolaureltree000
03-12-2011, 01:59 PM
other than the divine/arcane caster splits, i dont really turn down many people based on their builds. i think it annoys me more when you have an LFM up for a trapmonkey and a barbarian hits it, then sends you a tell when when you decline them saying 'u dont need a rogue for this'.

i have noticed that my 4pally/3monk gets declined from time to time. i guess some people dont like that class split =/

AylinIsAwesome
03-12-2011, 02:07 PM
Hating on AAs for actually using ranged is like hating on HOs for being anything other than THF Barbs.

But Half Orcs really make much better TWF Kensei Fighters with dual Khopeshes. ;)

MrWizard
03-12-2011, 02:17 PM
that 12 sorc/6 pally/2 rogue


no thanks

PopeJual
03-12-2011, 02:28 PM
This bugs me. I dont get why people hate on AAs for not meleeing.

Because melee is SO much more effective against a single target that using a bow when an enemy is right in your face is less effective than whipping out a pair of nice melee weapons EVEN FOR AN ARCANE ARCHER (as long as the AA hasn't made Strength a dump stat).

The AA will do more damage per hit with his bow. Bows shoot so slowly outside of manyshot that melee will still end up doing more DPS than the bow unless you've actively gone out of the way to gimp yourself in melee.

ColdNapalm
03-12-2011, 02:51 PM
the only one that bothers me is a rogue splash that can not open locks at all.

doing an offering of blood and needed someone to open locks for max loot possible, fighter with a rogue splash joined. At the first locked door we are waiting and the figther/rogue says "is someone going to open this?" We tell him that is his job

his reply " oh I can't open lock, I took rogue splash just to disable traps"

***? Take a splash of rogue and skip 1 of the 2 skills that splash provides????

He actually had disable and search kept up as a fighter? Impressive. A rogue splash with a ranger or wizard not keeping rogue skill up is bad...but a fighter and his 2 skill points + measly int not keeping all 3 skills up is reasonable...he would need 18 int (or 16 and human) to be able to do that.

ColdNapalm
03-12-2011, 02:57 PM
This bugs me. I dont get why people hate on AAs for not meleeing.
Theyve spent EVERY SINGLE AP they have on AA enhancements, and have some nice bonuses.

Yes, they get TWF, ITWF, and GTWF for free.

They also get Bow Strength, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Precise Shot, Imp. Precise Shot for free.

They get MORE archery feats for free than melee feats, yet if they dont ignore all their archery feats, weapons, APs, bonuses, etc the entire time theyre playing except for 20 seconds every 2 minutes, theyre bad players?

I play a tempest, and Ive played an AA as well. My AA almost never meleed and my tempest rarely pulls a bow. Why? Cause my AA's Silver Bow with Imbued Arrows outdamages his weaker melee weapons, and my Tempest's Silver Bow with Silver Arrows doesnt outdamage his dual Min IIs, and wouldnt come CLOSE to outdamaging dual Lit IIs.


Hating on AAs for actually using ranged is like hating on HOs for being anything other than THF Barbs.

Your doing it wrong.

A tempest should MS to start off before pulling his two weapons out to kick butt. MS is just THAT good...and it's free DPS. You do ZERO damage when your running towards the enemy so might as well take a nice little pot shot.

An AA that is kiting and taking shots while MS cools down is not only tanking just his DPS but that of the entire party. Remember what I said about doing zero damage while your running?!?

Zachski
03-12-2011, 07:32 PM
Tempests that forget they have free bow feats :D

Just to even it out.

PopeJual
03-12-2011, 08:08 PM
Tempests that forget they have free bow feats :D

Just to even it out.

This is true. The first time I actually used a bow on my Tempest (who was a TR from a prior Paladin) was in VoN3 when someone asked me why I wasn't pew pewing the trolls before we all jumped down to that fight.

That's also the run where someone explained how the Marut fight at the end worked and I discovered the joys of manyshot.

Zachski
03-13-2011, 12:32 AM
This is true. The first time I actually used a bow on my Tempest (who was a TR from a prior Paladin) was in VoN3 when someone asked me why I wasn't pew pewing the trolls before we all jumped down to that fight.

That's also the run where someone explained how the Marut fight at the end worked and I discovered the joys of manyshot.

When I was playing my Tempest, he always had his bow out except for melee combat, even before Manyshot.

when you're wielding two weapons, your DPS for enemies out of Melee Range is 0.

Talon_Moonshadow
03-13-2011, 12:57 AM
This would be true if you needed more than 4 ranks in OL to get most locks in the game. Easily achievable at level 1 rogue.

This is very true btw.

My old Pal18/Rog2 had ony five ranks in trap/lock skills. Yet did traps in Coal Chamber & Rainbow (blew up a box in Rainbow but got others) and did locks in just about everything.

There are few high DC locks. But not many. And if you know how to buff up your skills, you can buff them up really high.

+15 item
+4 GH
+1 Luck

Skill boosts
Bard buffs.

+5 tools

Int/Dex item

OL gets a d20 roll added to it

Just taking 4 ranks at lvl 1 in traditional Rog skill opens up a lot of possibilities.

PopeJual
03-13-2011, 09:06 AM
When I was playing my Tempest, he always had his bow out except for melee combat, even before Manyshot.

when you're wielding two weapons, your DPS for enemies out of Melee Range is 0.

How often are there enemies out of melee range in most quests?

There's lots of wide open spaces in most wilderness areas, but I generally find in most quests that there are very short runs to get into the fight and then significantly longer time spent in the fight itself. That's not because the fights take several minutes, but because there are enough doors and short corridors that the sprint toward the melee doesn't take very long at all.

I also often use the time spent in that sprint to hit temporary boosts so that they are fresh when I get into the fight.

If I were better at hopping back and forth between weapons, I would probably keep my bow out more often, but I often find that my weapon switch doesn't work when I want it to because I'm still in the last fraction of a second of another attack/potion/whatever animation and then I'm still pew pew pewing when I'm right up in someone's face.

-Satureon-
03-13-2011, 12:02 PM
to OP:

Fvs.
I found their leap too strong and overpowered. Probably they should fly if level cap will raise to 25 once.^^
upd 9 makes them way more overpowered than ever... (offensive spells amplification, debuffs)

Congratulations devs.

Soon everyone will fly on wings, and wont need any build or skill to get done anything in the game...:P

Have fun!

pjstechie
03-13-2011, 12:53 PM
on my ranger...

you have joined [shroud] party
Leader: are you a tempest?
me: arcane archer
Leader has dismissed you from party

true story. i had to stare at my screen and reread the chat sequence in disbelief a few times.

the only build i can recently recall turning away was something like 11 sorc 9 clr who was asking to join my ToD. he was declined more because space was tight and he was unconvincing when i asked what he would contribute to the party. i think a bard and a clr asked to join right after him too.

Zachski
03-13-2011, 06:18 PM
How often are there enemies out of melee range in most quests?


Hence why I always keep my bow out except when enemies are in melee range :P

If it's close quarters, then it's my melee weapons that I have out instead of the bow.

NaturalHazard
03-13-2011, 06:23 PM
.

The people that give me the most problems are Half Orc Barbarians....with wings next to their names...
Guaranteed to only want to run quests at full speed, Hasted and healed, and to drop group at the first sign of anything that will hurt his XP/Minute.

the ones that scream and froth at the mouth over the mic when the haste has 10 more seconds left for a fresh haste, even when they had previously told the party to split up to do the quest faster and the bard in on the other side of the map?

NaturalHazard
03-13-2011, 06:26 PM
on my ranger...

you have joined [shroud] party
Leader: are you a tempest?
me: arcane archer
Leader has dismissed you from party

true story. i had to stare at my screen and reread the chat sequence in disbelief a few times.

the only build i can recently recall turning away was something like 11 sorc 9 clr who was asking to join my ToD. he was declined more because space was tight and he was unconvincing when i asked what he would contribute to the party. i think a bard and a clr asked to join right after him too.

this happens quite a lot actually lol i dont have a AA when on my tempest and i get asked if im a tempest or an AA esp for a easy run like shroud normal for levels 17-20 I link my club of the silver flame in the reply :P

Seladon
03-15-2011, 10:12 AM
Hi,

i get turned down sometimes cause i am fairly hard of hearing and always ask people to type the important stuff.
No Mic/Speakers = no group sometimes, but such is life.

Too many people forget DDO is a game and not real life, and take it way too serious.

I believe in invite everyone and accept the greatness of their character play or see the humor of their buffoonery.

Cheers.

Yagi
03-18-2011, 09:42 AM
I never discriminatee based on a build. I'm not the god of ddo or anything else (that would make it past the filters anyways!), I dont know everything, I havent concieved of every possible angle or situation. People can see my lfm, they know what quest I am doing and they know what they bring to the table. I'll figure out what their about when I see them in action.

And if they struggle then maybe I can help them or point them towards somebody or something that can if they are receptive to such things.

I've had way more good experiences with strange builds that taught me more about the game then I have had bad ones. I've also seen plenty of "pure" builds fall flat on their face, and done the same on my own pure builds.

And when I see a far out build that I cant possibly think of a reason for existing? I think that they must have a huge pair and are probably the type of person thats fun to run with.

I've probably said the exact same things repeatedly on these forums in the past. It always gets me that people play a game with such unique character creation mechanics (for the mmo genre) and then slag on people for actually playing outside of the box. There are hundreds of games I could play where I'd know exactly what mold each player was crafted from.

Plus When I make a lfm I'm looking to play with other players, not get through a harmless situation in a video game as safely as possible. The worst case scenario is still entertaining.

PopeJual
03-18-2011, 11:35 AM
Hence why I always keep my bow out except when enemies are in melee range :P

If it's close quarters, then it's my melee weapons that I have out instead of the bow.

Me learn to read more good some day.

Arlathen
03-19-2011, 05:16 AM
6) when you get heal, it's fairly easy to keep up any half-decent wf

Any half-decent Warforged knows how to invest in Healing Amplification to not p*** off his friendly divine healers.

Habreno
03-24-2011, 08:24 PM
*Will not join for a Healer spot in any Shroud on my 15CLR/3PAL/2FTR BattleCleric when he hits L20*

leadhead
03-25-2011, 10:36 AM
till they lose con or toughness or something more valuable.

it's both

10AP for 50hp
and
10% closer to positive

fair enough on why you included 10%, good catch.. :)

This has been an interesting discussion to read between you two... I only took the first rung of healers friend also.


The friend I play with whines about my low defense all the time. I tell him it only looks that way because I am killing of the monsters in our quests by 3 or 4 to 1 vs the rest of the characters in our group.

But he is partially right, my defense is **** and basically barbarian...or rather my barbarian defense boils down to how good I am on the DR and Uncanny dodge buttons. If I hit the right buttons at the right times, I tank no problem. If I start drinking to many beers...well it can go south pretty quick. I am sure it doesnt help matters if I frenzy with a viscous weapon LOL! But most of the time I go with the carnifex!

Seamonkeysix
03-25-2011, 10:56 AM
on my ranger...

you have joined [shroud] party
Leader: are you a tempest?
me: arcane archer
Leader has dismissed you from party

true story. i had to stare at my screen and reread the chat sequence in disbelief a few times.


This is actually very sad. I have a 32 point build AA (elf). I have been turned down from time to time, but I usually say something like this, "If I don't have my fair share of kills and sufficient DPS, feel free to add me to your 'Do Not Group' list". Then, when I lead kills and don't die, the GL usually goes "wow!".

In non-epics, the burst from a LitII bow + slayer arrows= tons of trash kills and a nice slice of boss damage. Currently, I switch to the CC Epic Cutlass and whack the heads off of trash left and right on non-epics. On Epics, (for the time being), I switch to Heavy Picks on held trash and back to Epic Cutlasses for reasonable DPS on non-held trash.

Probably the biggest problem with many AAs is they totally neglect their weapon sets that aren't bows. Having stoneskin clickies, and other damage mitigating buffs, coupled with knowing when and how to mix it up during cool down timer for manyshot makes for a very effective support DPS toon.

It's a bummer that more people don't maximize their usefullness.

katz
03-25-2011, 11:35 AM
the only one that bothers me is a rogue splash that can not open locks at all.

doing an offering of blood and needed someone to open locks for max loot possible, fighter with a rogue splash joined. At the first locked door we are waiting and the figther/rogue says "is someone going to open this?" We tell him that is his job

his reply " oh I can't open lock, I took rogue splash just to disable traps"

***? Take a splash of rogue and skip 1 of the 2 skills that splash provides????

while other classes are feat starved, fighters are skill starved, and its gonna be tough to muster enough skill points to raise locks AND disarm. to be honest, i'd be pleasantly surprised if he could do either well, let alone both. and before someone starts whining at me saying i don't know what i'm talking about, i have a pure rog mechanic, a fvs/rog, a wiz/rog, and a ranger/rog (i HATE traps and locked doors, can ya tell?)

and one of those locked doors in OOB is actually kinda tough. i forget which one, tho. the first?

Furbitor
03-26-2011, 12:44 PM
Easily the worst Class in the game is Paladin. (Curse their Class).

Those Uppity buton smashers are always preaching how good they are, when in fact, the only things afraid of pallys in DDO is a the occasional CRATE. (RUMOR): DDO is putting is Evil outsider Crates in the game so pallys can feel they contribute.

Go figure.


Yes your touchy-feel Paladin is probably piking his way along the sides of a quest hunting for unmovable objects to break. If you get too close you'll notice a few things right off...

1. They might try to lay their hands on you, (PERV!!) and...

2. The scent of their "aura" will assault you... PHEW!!! Go get a BATH, Stinking Pally!! (why oh why these fanatics seem to cast this palpable "aura of doom" around them like a shield of dread... I guess they hope the homeowners of the crates they smash might just turn around and attack someone "Cleaner")

Ding!! with a flash of 2 men hands holding over the pallys head, the pally wants to make clear his intentions: putting the moves on more mobs (convert or romance? UGH!), No wonder the mobs run away to other more worthy opponents.

I ain't here to discuss a paladins choices in Life Partners, But I say Its just not for Me.
Hate the sin and not the sinner we say in the Anti Paladin League. The good Lord of DDO saw what tragedy was perpetrated against players who choose poorly at character creation, So he provided us with many Hearts of Wood, That which is strong, bends without break, rights the wrongs... A pally CAN be forgiven, allowing to destroy the tainted carcass of his past bad choice and start anew, As any class at all... bar paladin.

Help those destitute Pallys find a heart of wood.. They need it.