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View Full Version : Stop giving epic items for killing non-epic trash mobs



Draccus
02-23-2011, 08:36 AM
Let me start by saying that I absolutely LOVE the new event. It's one of the most fun, creative things I've seen in 12+ years of MMOs. But giving epic loot away for this event and events like it is not good for the game.

In my opinion, the biggest mistake Turbine has made in the last 18 months is the current practice of giving epic gear for what amounts to basically farming non-epic trash mobs in live events. Mabar handwraps, Epic Cloak of the Night, Pirate Hats, and Trinkets are all ridiculously powerful items and are far too easy to get.

Epic gear should come at an epic price. That price means, for most players, evolving a character from having random gear to crafted gear to raid gear and then putting together a team to run the hardest quests in the game. Epic gear shouldn't be awarded for repetitively killing weak respawning mobs, WoW-style.

When you start giving away the game's top gear to the game's weakest characters, you are negatively impacting the longevity of the game. This is not unlike a kid playing a video game with cheat codes. Sure, he loves running around with Godmode and GiveMeAllAmmo active but he quits the game FAR sooner than he would without the cheat codes.

I'm not saying that easy-to-obtain Epic Gear is a cheat code but the concept of challenge vs. reward is similar.

Dark_Uncle72
02-23-2011, 08:38 AM
Let me start by saying that I absolutely LOVE the new event. It's one of the most fun, creative things I've seen in 12+ years of MMOs. But giving epic loot away for this event and events like it is not good for the game.

In my opinion, the biggest mistake Turbine has made in the last 18 months is the current practice of giving epic gear for what amounts to basically farming non-epic trash mobs in live events. Mabar handwraps, Epic Cloak of the Night, Pirate Hats, and Trinkets are all ridiculously powerful items and are far too easy to get.

Epic gear should come at an epic price. That price means, for most players, evolving a character from having random gear to crafted gear to raid gear and then putting together a team to run the hardest quests in the game. Epic gear shouldn't be awarded for repetitively killing weak respawning mobs, WoW-style.

When you start giving away the game's top gear to the game's weakest characters, you are negatively impacting the longevity of the game. This is not unlike a kid playing a video game with cheat codes. Sure, he loves running around with Godmode and GiveMeAllAmmo active but he quits the game FAR sooner than he would without the cheat codes.

I'm not saying that easy-to-obtain Epic Gear is a cheat code but the concept of challenge vs. reward is similar.
100% agree w/ you
/signed

blitzschlag
02-23-2011, 08:42 AM
i'm a heavy supporter of what has been said

grodon9999
02-23-2011, 08:44 AM
Because it's SO much harder to mind-numbingly heavy-pick the cr@p out of stunned/held mobs in a quest I've done 100 times already and obviously presents little to no challenge once I've figured out all the meta-gamey tricks?

I do get your point though but I disagree with this being bad for the game. It gives people a "taste" of the better gear, it's that initial hit off the crackpipe that gets them hooked into the grinding wheel that is the pursuit of epic gear.

Raoull
02-23-2011, 08:50 AM
I haven't seen the exact recipes for this event, but for mabar you had to do epic quests for epic gear. One ingredient for every lvl20 item was an epic token. So if you haven't run epics, you top out at lvl16 gear.

And as a lvl 16 toon who'd love to bank up some lvl20 gear but can't.... that seems a reasonably good way of doing it.

SiliconShadow
02-23-2011, 08:50 AM
I actually find this harder than epics :D... but the drop rate in epics sucks :(

Not saying the event is hard but epics are yes.. easy very very easy now.

The items aren't quite as good as real epic items you can get and don't cover anything but they are nice niché items that I will enjoy a couple of.

Nospheratus
02-23-2011, 08:50 AM
I agree with the OP!

And btw, the epic items given in this event are much better than most epic items in the rest of the game and require only a fraction of time to get them! So, it's not a taste, it's essentially giving the "best" items considering the time and effort.

grodon9999
02-23-2011, 08:53 AM
I agree with the OP!

And btw, the epic items given in this event are much better than most epic items in the rest of the game and require only a fraction of time to get them! So, it's not a taste, it's essentially giving the "best" items considering the time and effort.

Considering all the time I've wasted in epic quests only to get skunked, I don't care.

epoin
02-23-2011, 08:57 AM
For those saying that these items are to easy to acquire

This event is only open for a few weeks, then gone potentially forever.

Thats a rarity that i would say makes them pretty epic

Kale_Hagan
02-23-2011, 09:00 AM
Considering all the time I've wasted in epic quests only to get skunked, I don't care.

AMEN. And how many times have you seen the one seal/shard you've been looking for go to the guy who is on his first run and is so stoked to pull epic parts that he doesn't even care that he'll never use it, and takes it anyway.

stainer
02-23-2011, 09:02 AM
AMEN. And how many times have you seen the one seal/shard you've been looking for go to the guy who is on his first run and is so stoked to pull epic parts that he doesn't even care that he'll never use it, and takes it anyway.

I haven't had a scroll drop since the last update. I think this event is fine.

lord_of_rage
02-23-2011, 09:04 AM
Considering all the time I've wasted in epic quests only to get skunked, I don't care.

I agree. Months of epics and not pulling scrolls. Crazy high prices to buy said scrolls. Its tiring. And if anything some of these items will drive scroll prices down.

FastTaco
02-23-2011, 09:07 AM
Whats really over the top is the items are BtA... very easy to aquire and very powerful.

Just because its an event doesn't justify making epic items attainable after a few days of killing easy mobs that would normally take months and months to grind out ... Oh btw plz bring back mabar event... my palemaster is unable to find the shroud of the lich from abbot, I would love to make that nice robe for him after just half a day of killing easy mobs.

Cyr
02-23-2011, 09:14 AM
/signed

I'm not a fan of giving great gear for trash mob farming. It brings out the worst aspects of other MMO's.

If there is some unresistable urge on the developer's part to put epic gear in events restrict them to highly specialized (for content NOT BUILDS) items such as ancient vulk dagger is (ie not ratkiller which is also the best general purpose CC weapon in the game).

Draccus
02-23-2011, 09:16 AM
Because it's SO much harder to mind-numbingly heavy-pick the cr@p out of stunned/held mobs in a quest I've done 100 times already and obviously presents little to no challenge once I've figured out all the meta-gamey tricks?

I do get your point though but I disagree with this being bad for the game. It gives people a "taste" of the better gear, it's that initial hit off the crackpipe that gets them hooked into the grinding wheel that is the pursuit of epic gear.

I totally understand your point. But, like it or not, Epic Quests are currently the hardest thing to do in the game. Sure, there are tricks to make them easier and sure, sorcs are soloing them but, on average, across the board, epics are the hardest. Those of us who are spoiled (and I include myself) by running epics every night with some of the best built, best geared characters in the game forget that those quests can be hard.

Boring? Repetitive? Yes, they can be. But they are still as hard as DDO has to offer. They are hard enough, in fact, to keep weaker characters and less experienced players from easily collecting epic loot...which is the point.

So it's logical that running the hardest quests in the game should generally be the path to getting the best gear in the game. The live events, though, completely change the risk-reward balance of the game.

Just my opinion, of course. And you can bet I'll be in Smuggler's Cove on Thursday! ;)

Carpone
02-23-2011, 09:24 AM
Mabar event loot didn't break the game and neither does the Smuggler Rest event. Epic event gear is simply better itemized compared to other epic content which is the crux of the issue. Existing epic quest/raid itemization needs another revamp.

voodoogroves
02-23-2011, 09:24 AM
I totally understand your point. But, like it or not, Epic Quests are currently the hardest thing to do in the game. Sure, there are tricks to make them easier and sure, sorcs are soloing them but, on average, across the board, epics are the hardest. Those of us who are spoiled (and I include myself) by running epics every night with some of the best built, best geared characters in the game forget that those quests can be hard.

Boring? Repetitive? Yes, they can be. But they are still as hard as DDO has to offer. They are hard enough, in fact, to keep weaker characters and less experienced players from easily collecting epic loot...which is the point.

So it's logical that running the hardest quests in the game should generally be the path to getting the best gear in the game. The live events, though, completely change the risk-reward balance of the game.

Just my opinion, of course. And you can bet I'll be in Smuggler's Cove on Thursday! ;)

Still new to many epics. My opinion as a new-ish to epics player ... The epic timer is more a limiting factor than the difficulty once you learn the tricks.

Maybe I've got ... 100 epic completions total? Not anywhere near the amount you guys have. Once you figure out how to do it and getting prepped, doing it isn't what keeps your epic-gear from materializing - it's the timers.


Now ....


I would LOVE to see the scaling affect the materials and the materials affect the crafting more. I'd love to see having to compete X of the epic events to make the item epic.

Meet in the middle

Impaqt
02-23-2011, 09:26 AM
I see a lot of folks saying the rewards are too good....


meh...

I've been running epics just about every night for months.... Yeah, Lte start.. but I've been in full swing for a while...

I've crafted exactly 1 epic item.... (Well 3 if ya count the 2 mabar items)

the randomness of drops in epic is incredibly frustrating. I like seeing the items here. Sure, Power gamers will farm it every minute, but the average player will craft what? 2? maybe 3 items? Get a taste for epic gear perhaps? get better?

casual gamers getting good gear is not a bad thing for the game.

Power gamers getting more great gear isnt hurting anything anyway.

Epic questing needs some serious love at this point. I'll take this until they get around to it.

skaltervox12
02-23-2011, 09:29 AM
Considering all the time I've wasted in epic quests only to get skunked, I don't care.

This.

Draccus
02-23-2011, 09:34 AM
Considering all the time I've wasted in epic quests only to get skunked, I don't care.


This.

So here's a question for you: What would you have been doing in the game if you were not "wasting" your time in epics?

Sholia
02-23-2011, 09:36 AM
It sounds from many of the posts that the trick to acquiring epic loot isn't heroic skill but heroic patience. It's pretty lame that the only thing holding people back from crafting epic items is their inability to win a drop lottery. And that process is superior to what this event offers?

Zenako
02-23-2011, 09:38 AM
Well a lot of players will probably be happy with "cool hats" with tailored abilities to use instead of everyone using Minos.

Depending on how quickly the community as a whole gets their act together to get large shard drops from runs, crafting more than a handful of items seems rather hard to do for most players.

I am sure there will be a dedicated crew who churn out a bunch of EPIC items, but with a lot of the stuff being Bound to Account, it is much harder to "Buy your way to EPIC" like you could with Mabar ingredients like Liche Dust. It is annoying that the compass is BtC instead of BtA like most of the other stuff thou.

Yes the items will power up even more that handful of players who complete them, but in context with many of the quests, does it matter all that much? Mostly what I see are consolidations of attributes onto single items instead of needing to swap gear to get the same effect. The rogue boosts are much the same as you can get elsewhere, just on different items. Takes a fraction of a second to swap goggles. Meh.

Samadhi
02-23-2011, 09:42 AM
I think you missed the biggest point. It is BORING. How anyone could say they like sitting around killing mobs in this manner is beyond me.

ckorik
02-23-2011, 09:44 AM
So here's a question for you: What would you have been doing in the game if you were not "wasting" your time in epics?

Having fun? :)

Draccus
02-23-2011, 09:47 AM
And that process is superior to what this event offers?

Absolutely. Investing time to improve is the basis of MMOs and has been the basis of most MMOs since the genre started about 13 years ago.

Giving away power with little or no time invested is when the game dies.

Like it or not, you are a mouse, happily running on your treadmill with the hope of getting some cheese at the end. The hope of a reward is what keeps you playing. It triggers a measureable, electrochemical change in your brain and that's what keeps you coming back.

Two things will stop that electrochemical change in your brain: when the rewards stop or when the rewards come without effort.

Just my opinion, of course.

Nospheratus
02-23-2011, 09:50 AM
Absolutely. Investing time to improve is the basis of MMOs and has been the basis of most MMOs since the genre started about 13 years ago.

Giving away power with little or no time invested is when the game dies.

Like it or not, you are a mouse, happily running on your treadmill with the hope of getting some cheese at the end. The hope of a reward is what keeps you playing. It triggers a measureable, electrochemical change in your brain and that's what keeps you coming back.

Two things will stop that electrochemical change in your brain: when the rewards stop or when the rewards come without effort.

Just my opinion, of course.

Yet again on the spot!

donfilibuster
02-23-2011, 09:51 AM
Both views are correct, that you get to have powerful gear without having played epic quests, but also that you get a taste that may lead them to play and learn epics.

At least this event is better done and it is not just trash killing, you need a good team, at least of kobolds.
You don't have to spend time at the island killing monsters in one spot like in mabar, you only need coves.

Granted you can learn to do 200 shard runs every cove run but people doing it so far is doing so at lv 25 cove.
Which means they are already epic-able and well geared, so no big loss.
The new lv 20s don't have it that easy, a botched cove run can get you 30 shards at most.

Now, you can get a slotted item in a day, if you grind all day.
But even if you do 16 coves a day for 3200 shards you still can only afford one slotted item for like 2700 shards.
(500 and 1000 for the two upgrades, but the recipes also require one greater trinket, for 600 shards each)

In theory, you need to do several days worth of coves to get a set of slotted items.
And even then, you still can't use them unless you begin to do epics to get the tokens for the augments.

Let alone trying to outfit your alts while the event lasts, and this includes multiple hats.
There's only so much you can do before you run out of february.
People will be asking to extend the event or repeat it later on.

ckorik
02-23-2011, 09:57 AM
Absolutely. Investing time to improve is the basis of MMOs and has been the basis of most MMOs since the genre started about 13 years ago.

Giving away power with little or no time invested is when the game dies.

Like it or not, you are a mouse, happily running on your treadmill with the hope of getting some cheese at the end. The hope of a reward is what keeps you playing. It triggers a measureable, electrochemical change in your brain and that's what keeps you coming back.

Two things will stop that electrochemical change in your brain: when the rewards stop or when the rewards come without effort.

Just my opinion, of course.

How do you account for people who never play epic - and don't care about it? Then again I don't care about this event either - and I didn't care about the mabar event.

I'm glad you recognize that this is your opinion. Just remember there are plenty of people that play MMO's that don't grind the high end.

To use the most popular one (at the moment) as an example. IIRC less than 20% of their userbase bothered with raiding at all (prior to WoTLK which they modified to get more people into the raid game).

At the time they had a sub base of around 8 million people. 80% of 8 million is 6.4 million that never bothered with 'chasing the cheese' of the most popular MMO.

While I'm glad people who base their fun around chasing that upgrade have a path here - you must realize that this is not actually the majority of subscribers (based on past evidence).

kinar
02-23-2011, 09:57 AM
Let me start by saying that I absolutely LOVE the new event. It's one of the most fun, creative things I've seen in 12+ years of MMOs. But giving epic loot away for this event and events like it is not good for the game.

In my opinion, the biggest mistake Turbine has made in the last 18 months is the current practice of giving epic gear for what amounts to basically farming non-epic trash mobs in live events. Mabar handwraps, Epic Cloak of the Night, Pirate Hats, and Trinkets are all ridiculously powerful items and are far too easy to get.

Epic gear should come at an epic price. That price means, for most players, evolving a character from having random gear to crafted gear to raid gear and then putting together a team to run the hardest quests in the game. Epic gear shouldn't be awarded for repetitively killing weak respawning mobs, WoW-style.

When you start giving away the game's top gear to the game's weakest characters, you are negatively impacting the longevity of the game. This is not unlike a kid playing a video game with cheat codes. Sure, he loves running around with Godmode and GiveMeAllAmmo active but he quits the game FAR sooner than he would without the cheat codes.

I'm not saying that easy-to-obtain Epic Gear is a cheat code but the concept of challenge vs. reward is similar.

I really don't think that this event represents epic gear that is easy to get. The base items may say epic but they really aren't all that epic. The upgrades are quite a bit of a grind,.

And don't forget that these items are only available for a week wheras all normal epic gear you can grind out casually over the course of months. That is a HUGE boon for keeping these epic items as is because they are pretty limited.

Elixxer
02-23-2011, 09:58 AM
/signed

I have been running epics over 3 month and only 2 scroll drops but one is for a caster and I really don't need the other one (mace or whatever) since I am monk/LS which leaves my gear rather limited. I haven't been insane about staying on timer for all my epics, but I have done a fair amount of runs failed/farms/completions. Over 100 by now I guess.

A few days of this event IMPO will bring
Grumpy players who have been farming 12 hours straight.
Noobs with loot, oh my. (yes it can be good to give them a treat but from boring grinding?)
Less questing, quests are the reason people play ddo. This event takes all the players from questing and makes them grind. (questing isn't always a grind, can be fun ;) ) 28 instances on the event preview. The reason I think turbine isn't making the loot require epic tokens is because they will not be brining this back.(?)
Camping... 1 caster fireballing it away hehe, can ruin a full raid party of meeles.
Yeah some of my points are lame or off, I am still tired I admit.

I think it's a bad time to TR, unless you like to solo. The 30% xp bonus should last a week not 2 days unless I am mistaken. Or make it 20% and give us a reason to quest when this event is going.
I'd like more events to be group events that can be solo'd but will take longer. I don't want to see it encourage Camping. Kill stealing. Hate tells. Long grinding hours. I admit the kobold thing is a little fun but I already am a little tired of kobolds high pitched voices lol, I thought they'd be a bit deeper, we know where JB is from now right?

/rant off.

grodon9999
02-23-2011, 09:59 AM
I totally understand your point. But, like it or not, Epic Quests are currently the hardest thing to do in the game. Sure, there are tricks to make them easier and sure, sorcs are soloing them but, on average, across the board, epics are the hardest. Those of us who are spoiled (and I include myself) by running epics every night with some of the best built, best geared characters in the game forget that those quests can be hard.

Do you think any of this stuff is gonna make a difference to people who wipe now in Last Stand or die in casual Amrath?

Those vorpal Scimitars will sure be nice . . . in Inspired Quarter . . . you still need tokens for the Red Slots so you'd have to run some epics to get them to bypass even Trash Devil DR.



Boring? Repetitive? Yes, they can be. But they are still as hard as DDO has to offer. They are hard enough, in fact, to keep weaker characters and less experienced players from easily collecting epic loot...which is the point.

So it's logical that running the hardest quests in the game should generally be the path to getting the best gear in the game. The live events, though, completely change the risk-reward balance of the game.

Here's what I'm thinking Turbine is thinking . . . only 5% of the players even play epics (an old figure, it could be more). Most of the players just casually play lower-level content and barely raid (as evident by some of the pugs on our server).

There is a HUGE gear disparity between new players and old which makes us running together kinda difficult. Stuff like these events and the Lordsmarch stuff is being done to try to close this gap a little bit. I'd like to have newer players gets stuff easier as they can contribute more in my groups.

If people have no chance of catching up, they'll stop bothering to play. A few easy to get items will help close the gap a little so a newer toon can actually run with better-equipped toons. They will become more viable faster and it'll be more fun for all.




Just my opinion, of course. And you can bet I'll be in Smuggler's Cove on Thursday! ;)

You stole two kills from me last night! :)

maddmatt70
02-23-2011, 10:02 AM
signed with you OP. It is far too easy to get way powerful gear in this event. I knew people within 2 hours that had the fully upgraded trinket without too much effort which is just ridiculous.

Draccus
02-23-2011, 10:06 AM
You stole two kills from me last night! :)

Fear the red rogue with dual RadIIs :)

(but only fear him against level 18, non-warded, mobs!)

grodon9999
02-23-2011, 10:06 AM
So here's a question for you: What would you have been doing in the game if you were not "wasting" your time in epics?

Run up other toons. Raid, have fun, meet new players, TR a whole bunch of times, take chances on n00bs to see if they have potential.

I have four characters now (that I actually play) and will maybe make two more. The grind required to get them good gear is so absurdly long that I don't have any desire to do any more. I have about a dozen GOOD epic items so I've actually had some success in my grinding so I don't speak as a hater with no gear.

Buggss
02-23-2011, 10:08 AM
The way I see the whole thing is the only people who will be able to grind enough of the coves are those who already have enough time to grind epics and the more powerful event items will only extend the gap between the "power-gamers" and basically everyone else. When the gap between useful events like the Mabar dragon reaches or passes an hour and you have a split second to jump in before it's filled I and many others lose interest quickly.

If people think they've done everything and more contents' needed I suggest a break or maybe another game.

I did so and came back to more content then I could handle for a long time.

Try it one time.. :)

protokon
02-23-2011, 10:10 AM
I totally understand your point. But, like it or not, Epic Quests are currently the hardest thing to do in the game. Sure, there are tricks to make them easier and sure, sorcs are soloing them but, on average, across the board, epics are the hardest.

Try leveling a TR while pugging the whole time and tell me if you still think epics are the 'hardest thing to do in the game' ;)

Templarion
02-23-2011, 10:10 AM
/signed

/signed

/signed

/signed

/signed

/signed

...

stoolcannon
02-23-2011, 10:17 AM
Because it's SO much harder to mind-numbingly heavy-pick the cr@p out of stunned/held mobs in a quest I've done 100 times already and obviously presents little to no challenge once I've figured out all the meta-gamey tricks?

I do get your point though but I disagree with this being bad for the game. It gives people a "taste" of the better gear, it's that initial hit off the crackpipe that gets them hooked into the grinding wheel that is the pursuit of epic gear.

I'm halfway between you and the OP.

The gear is far too easy to get and far too powerful. I made 5 epic items in 3 hours yesterday. Compare that to my barbarian who has 4 epic items throughout the course of his 6 month lifespan.

That said, you're also 100% correct in regards to the difficulty of Epics in general. They are much easier than Amrath Elite in general and the only thing harder about them than this event is the drop rate is so low.

Jahmin
02-23-2011, 10:17 AM
But giving epic loot away for this event and events like it is not good for the game.
I'm not saying that easy-to-obtain Epic Gear is a cheat code but the concept of challenge vs. reward is similar.

The biggest problem is that Turbine has stupidly equated minimum Level 20 with 'Epic' :rolleyes:

Do not make the same mistake.

Only the Tier3 items after the second upgrade are truly comparable to the other Epic items. Otherwise, while some are still very good, they are not Epic.

stoolcannon
02-23-2011, 10:19 AM
But seriously the fact that I have made 2 chaosblade competitors in 3 hours last night is insane. That really takes away from the exclusivity and grind anyone went through to get the former.

If they add a marilith chain knock off I'm killing myself.

So

/signed

Hendrik
02-23-2011, 10:19 AM
I think you missed the biggest point. It is BORING. How anyone could say they like sitting around killing mobs in this manner is beyond me.

I am finding this event far more enjoyable then standing on a ledge and casting fireball.

Since you are camping a spawn, no wonder you are bored.

Cam_Neely
02-23-2011, 10:20 AM
In my opinion, the biggest mistake Turbine has made in the last 18 months is the current practice of giving epic gear for what amounts to basically farming non-epic trash mobs in live events.

/signed

stoolcannon
02-23-2011, 10:21 AM
I am finding this event far more enjoyable then standing on a ledge and casting fireball.

Since you are camping a spawn, no wonder you are bored.

TOTALLY agree with you. I think this event is really quite fun actually. So much better than maybar it's not even a comparison.

Impaqt
02-23-2011, 10:23 AM
So here's a question for you: What would you have been doing in the game if you were not "wasting" your time in epics?

I'd be doing the same things I was doing before I started grinding epics...

TRing... Raiding... RUnning end game raids....

the game hit various caps before epics were introduced. It survived(Barely, but it survived)

I think the biggest problem is that folks dont understand that you simply cannot balance end game for the folks that have so much time, resources and often skill to obtain everything they could possibly want.

As much as I hate to say something like this.... THose people are Horrible for MMO's. Casual or average gamers see them and think they need to be like them to succeed. false. devs see them and think they need to balance content for that small percentage to keep them interested in the game.... false...

Its quite obvious the devs have stepped back and are looking at the game more as a whole rather than the end game power gamer perspective. thats very good for the games longevity.

so I'm totally OK with bringing epics down a notch in availability. it gets more people interested in that aspect of the game.

Raiderone
02-23-2011, 10:28 AM
I agree and disagree at the same time. Cause I gotta admit that I want many or all of the items. Are they overpowered, absolutely!

Thats why I want them!

Good thing the leathers werent robes otherwise it would really be overpowered...they would be one lvl monks galor!

One point is that the casual player will still end up with probably only a few items and probably only one Upgrade2.

While the 16 hr everyday player will probably have one if not two of every item at upg2.

I want at minimum the dagger, leathers, gloves and ring at upgrade2. then focus on getting addition items at Upgrade2 (cav plate and cutlass).

I already have dagger, leathers, gloves and cutlass at tier1 (base item).

BUt it's always a catch22...u cannot please everyone. If the items stunk, we'd have way more threads complaining about that! So one way of another.. devs cannot win!

Hendrik
02-23-2011, 10:30 AM
TOTALLY agree with you. I think this event is really quite fun actually. So much better than maybar it's not even a comparison.

We had four full guild raid groups in there last night...

Vent was non-stop chatter about how much FUN people were having, my cheeks hurt from smiling so much hearing so many friends enjoying themselves - the fun 'toys' we get from looting is just a bonus.

bartosy
02-23-2011, 10:33 AM
as it stands now the current epic item grinding is to hard for most people, running the same quest over and over just till you throw a lucky number on the loot rolls and then have to do it 2 more times to get your epic item is seriously to much work.. add with that that you got to farm 20 tokens + to slot it with something is borderline absurd..

Now don't get me wrong i think the current event makes it probably way to easy to get said epics also.. there should be a middleground somewhere where everyone can enjoy the game without having to hardcore farm certain scrolls for hours and days on end.

make a 20th completions for certain epic quest that drops a certain scroll or seal.

stille_nacht
02-23-2011, 10:35 AM
i would have a big problem with this.... if these were actually premium endgame equipment. But as it is, at least in this event, i don't think any of the "epic" equipment is actually better than mediocre at high levels. Mediocre capped equipment from a few hours of grinding? im fine with it...

Draccus
02-23-2011, 10:37 AM
make a 20th completions for certain epic quest that drops a certain scroll or seal.

That's a suggestion I've heard before and a very good one.

The reason players complain about epic loot drops but don't complain (as loudly) about raid gear drops is because completing a raid is never a waste of time. Moving closer to 20 or 40 or 280 is a benefit even if not a single item dropped in the raid.

Epics aren't like that. Spending 45 minutes running eVoN5 and getting no seals, shards, or scrolls gained you nothing.

Kza
02-23-2011, 10:39 AM
Because it's SO much harder to mind-numbingly heavy-pick the cr@p out of stunned/held mobs in a quest I've done 100 times already and obviously presents little to no challenge once I've figured out all the meta-gamey tricks?

I do get your point though but I disagree with this being bad for the game. It gives people a "taste" of the better gear, it's that initial hit off the crackpipe that gets them hooked into the grinding wheel that is the pursuit of epic gear.

/Well spoken!

Raiderone
02-23-2011, 10:41 AM
So here's a question for you: What would you have been doing in the game if you were not "wasting" your time in epics?

Yah no such thing as wasting your time in EPics! and even though I dont love events,
events arent a waste of time either. I gotta admit this event is one of the better and funnier events.

now if the gear was like the egg scavenger hunt, then i'd say it's a waste of time (Ultimate V Aura and done for me)... so far nothing but Cakes and Supreme Potions

On 2nd thought...Actually running ECOF and not getting anything can be a waste of time...especially for casters and clerics that just went thru 20 or 30 pots!

donfilibuster
02-23-2011, 10:47 AM
now if the gear was like the egg scavenger hunt, then i'd say it's a waste of time (Ultimate V Aura and done for me)... so far nothing but Cakes and Supreme Potions
which would have been nice if the blessing had a reasonable price, but that's discussed elsewhere.

darksol23
02-23-2011, 10:51 AM
Let me start by saying that I absolutely LOVE the new event. It's one of the most fun, creative things I've seen in 12+ years of MMOs. But giving epic loot away for this event and events like it is not good for the game.

In my opinion, the biggest mistake Turbine has made in the last 18 months is the current practice of giving epic gear for what amounts to basically farming non-epic trash mobs in live events. Mabar handwraps, Epic Cloak of the Night, Pirate Hats, and Trinkets are all ridiculously powerful items and are far too easy to get.

Epic gear should come at an epic price. That price means, for most players, evolving a character from having random gear to crafted gear to raid gear and then putting together a team to run the hardest quests in the game. Epic gear shouldn't be awarded for repetitively killing weak respawning mobs, WoW-style.

When you start giving away the game's top gear to the game's weakest characters, you are negatively impacting the longevity of the game. This is not unlike a kid playing a video game with cheat codes. Sure, he loves running around with Godmode and GiveMeAllAmmo active but he quits the game FAR sooner than he would without the cheat codes.

I'm not saying that easy-to-obtain Epic Gear is a cheat code but the concept of challenge vs. reward is similar.

+1

I made five base-level "Welfare Epics" over the course of 2 hours last night. There's no where else in the game you can make such powerful items in that short span of time, not even close...

Irinis
02-23-2011, 11:12 AM
I'm not saying that easy-to-obtain Epic Gear is a cheat code but the concept of challenge vs. reward is similar.

That's very easy for you to say, mr redscale epic this epic that in a top raiding guild... it's a little more challenging for the rest of us and for a special event these items are NOT overpowered. (See that special event quiver the Euros got! lol)

So if you find the event too easy, take your ball* and go home.

*By "ball" I mean the 20+ t4 epic items you made in just the preview when the rest of us were pugging and madly grinding for hours to barely get ONE item made to t3

EDIT: Negged? LOL, I certainly hope it wasn't Dresek who did that, thought he'd be capable of taking a little ribbing :p

elujin
02-23-2011, 11:19 AM
I totally understand your point. But, like it or not, Epic Quests are currently the hardest thing to do in the game. Sure, there are tricks to make them easier and sure, sorcs are soloing them but, on average, across the board, epics are the hardest. Those of us who are spoiled (and I include myself) by running epics every night with some of the best built, best geared characters in the game forget that those quests can be hard.

Boring? Repetitive? Yes, they can be. But they are still as hard as DDO has to offer. They are hard enough, in fact, to keep weaker characters and less experienced players from easily collecting epic loot...which is the point.

So it's logical that running the hardest quests in the game should generally be the path to getting the best gear in the game. The live events, though, completely change the risk-reward balance of the game.

Just my opinion, of course. And you can bet I'll be in Smuggler's Cove on Thursday! ;)

less geared toons thats me ... why can't i have nice things ?

:(

grodon9999
02-23-2011, 11:20 AM
less geared toons thats me ... why can't i have nice things ?

:(

Because if you did us epic-equipped elitists couldn't look down on you from our ivory towers :)

Qezuzu
02-23-2011, 11:26 AM
It's supposed to be fun.

The kobold thing is pretty damn fun imo. The items are powerful, don't take very long to obtain... so? What's the alternative? Evicerating held mobs with heavy picks for 20 minutes then beating on a red name for 5 minutes?

The event replaces the grind with fun. If it was extremely grindy or didn't have very good rewards it wouldn't be as popular. This isn't some new quest, it's an EVENT. It's supposed to be fun, and it's great that it has nice rewards. It'll be gone eventually and then new players or new alts will have to grind out epic quests like usual.

Draccus
02-23-2011, 11:36 AM
That's very easy for you to say, mr redscale epic this epic that in a top raiding guild... it's a little more challenging for the rest of us and for a special event these items are NOT overpowered. (See that special event quiver the Euros got! lol)

So if you find the event too easy, take your ball* and go home.

*By "ball" I mean the 20+ t4 epic items you made in just the preview when the rest of us were pugging and madly grinding for hours to barely get ONE item made to t3

ROFL...thanks for giving me a good laugh today.

For the record, I'm not as epic-geared as you'd think. I only have two permanently-equipped epic items: Red dragonscale and dustless boots. I've got a few other utility items (kundarak goggles, ancient vulkoor dagger, Epic Shatterbow, etc.) but nothing else that I wear/use all the time. I haven't even epicified my bloodstone yet (approaching 60 eDQs and 10 eADQs without seeing the shard).

There are about 5 more epic items that I could craft today because I have the item and all three components but they are so weak that it's literally not worth my time to run to the epic altar to make them.

So I'm not one of those folks with epics in every slot who thinks "it's unfair that the noobs get great gear for free after I had to work for mine!" I just like balance.

Soleran
02-23-2011, 11:37 AM
When you start giving away the game's top gear to the game's weakest characters, you are negatively impacting the longevity of the game. This is not unlike a kid playing a video game with cheat codes. Sure, he loves running around with Godmode and GiveMeAllAmmo active but he quits the game FAR sooner than he would without the cheat codes.

.

Well I picked up a few items last night and I have to say it didn't change my "power" lvl much at all, certainly not the affect you are illustrating with the godmode cheat comments.

It's a fun event and I'm sure people will pick up some items that will be upgrades but really the biggest upgrade in ddo comes for melee after u craft 2 lit2, these items dont even hold a candle to what that upgrade does.

Malky
02-23-2011, 11:39 AM
Honestly while some items are nice especially for slot consolidation, most of them are hardly game breaking :

Scimi&ssword : x2 crit mod and no possiblility to break dr/silver+good removes a good chunk of possible targets it could be useful on when you're level 20, can be ok if you don't already have lit IIs for non-epic.
Maul is nice, but so few people use mauls anyway
Ring is pretty much only good for AC builds, hence useless in epics for everybody
Spyglass is a very nice consolidating item, but mostly for rogues and it's still << epic bloodstone when fighting
Shield is... who's using shields ???
Leather armor only useful for ac builds, whose are wearing robes anyway
Stalwart trinket would be ok for non-evasion melees, but bold is way better

Caster trinket maybe good depending on how it stacks with other gear
Cavarly Plate is ok/ok+

Gloves are very nice
Caster dagger nice
Bold trinket is über for non-evasion melees, and nice for evasion ones, just needs to be combined with seeker+6 on hat (which means getting heavy fort and toughness elsewhere too...), but it only matches up epic bloodstone for those, and in 2 slots.

That's it, 3 nice items that are worth farming, plus some for AC builds. Hopefully the event is fun to play...

Edit: omg mixed gloves with handwraps, totally different outcome ><

Tirisha
02-23-2011, 11:42 AM
But seriously the fact that I have made 2 chaosblade competitors in 3 hours last night is insane. That really takes away from the exclusivity and grind anyone went through to get the former.

If they add a marilith chain knock off I'm killing myself.

So

/signed

To be fair the rarity of Chaosblade and Marilith chain Scrolls are a bit absurd. I don't need a really epic item that I can link to everybody and laugh HA I won the lottery (except my epic chainmail coif... eat it!). You can't compare the event with the desert cause the desert is everything that's broke about epic gear IMO.

crschoen
02-23-2011, 11:53 AM
Epic gear should come at an epic price. That price means, for most players, evolving a character from having random gear to crafted gear to raid gear and then putting together a team to run the hardest quests in the game. Epic gear shouldn't be awarded for repetitively killing weak respawning mobs, WoW-style.


You would have a valid argument if the current Epic gear system was different. But your argument breaks down when you consider that the current system is based so much on mindless grinding. Take Epic VON1 for instance. Why should standing on a place that monsters can't jump to and casting firewall be considered an epic-worthy achievement and running a one-time event not?

morticianjohn
02-23-2011, 11:59 AM
I was hoping to skip the event but if the loot is this good I guess I better spend a few hours on it. Even though I have no epic gear yet I am kinda on the side of the OP here but since I haven't run the event that's all I'm going to say for now instead of emphatically signing

Chai
02-23-2011, 12:02 PM
I agree with most of what the OP said, except that epics arent challenging, especially when we have only a few options to rely on for killing epic trash.

The one "epic price" we pay for farming epic items is: epic amounts of time.

Hendrik
02-23-2011, 12:08 PM
You would have a valid argument if the current Epic gear system was different. But your argument breaks down when you consider that the current system is based so much on mindless grinding. Take Epic VON1 for instance. Why should standing on a place that monsters can't jump to and casting firewall be considered an epic-worthy achievement and running a one-time event not?

It's not - it's cheese.

I hope someday this will be fixed and can bathe in the tears of the crying perchers.

:cool:

Bilger
02-23-2011, 12:10 PM
I agree kinda but what would you have them do instead?

All I hear is complaining about giving epic gear out in the events.

I agreee to and extent but what could they give out or make it worth while for prople to do.

If it wasn't epic stuff then people be complaining that it is underpowered and no reason to do it.

So instead of complaining why don't we have a solution to go with it.

I do agree slightly with you but its a win/lose situation for turbine either way.

We complained that we didn't get events and now we have them and complain items are to powerful. Try to give a solution to it and they might listen.

Hendrik
02-23-2011, 12:15 PM
I agree with most of what the OP said, except that epics arent challenging, especially when we have only a few options to rely on for killing epic trash.

The one "epic price" we pay for farming epic items is: epic amounts of time.

Epic is what you want to make of it. If you want to make it a boring grind, that is what it will be. If you want to follow the herd and only do X, Y, Z, well, that is what it will be too. If you don't want to try new things then you're going to be stuck in a rut until you do.

HallowedOne
02-23-2011, 12:16 PM
Incredible, there will always be people complaining about anything, no matter what. When people complain about Epic grind, after this kind of event comes they start complaining it is too easy.

One thing I like with these seasonal events is that it adds up another way to get very good items fast, increasing the desire to keep up playing.

After I started playing DDO, from scratch, and topping a pally and a wizard, I started to build up a healer. But looking back at those 2 characters, fully geared, and rocking, I left it behind for a lot of time, after thinking about the hard times ahead to gear him.

When Mabar came up I saw 2 items there that I thought "hey, these would be fun to put on him!", so I crafted then on him and then I started playing again - in less than a month I capped.

The possibility of having good end game gear for newly created toons or noobs is a very good motivation to keep up playing. Granted, they are VERY uber, but if the event has a short duration it might compensate for that.

crazy7381
02-23-2011, 12:19 PM
So here's a question for you: What would you have been doing in the game if you were not "wasting" your time in epics?

Shroud =-)

Synnestar35791
02-23-2011, 12:20 PM
Try leveling a TR while pugging the whole time and tell me if you still think epics are the 'hardest thing to do in the game' ;)

THIS ^^^^ Wisest comment as of now, I've seen more lunacy and impatience WITH TR'z in group, it's as if True Reincarnate is NOT respected or appreciated, BUT even so, being a TR doesn't make ya **GAMERGOD** either, honestly can't we all just git along?

kingfisher
02-23-2011, 12:23 PM
Let me start by saying that I absolutely LOVE the new event. It's one of the most fun, creative things I've seen in 12+ years of MMOs. But giving epic loot away for this event and events like it is not good for the game.

In my opinion, the biggest mistake Turbine has made in the last 18 months is the current practice of giving epic gear for what amounts to basically farming non-epic trash mobs in live events. Mabar handwraps, Epic Cloak of the Night, Pirate Hats, and Trinkets are all ridiculously powerful items and are far too easy to get.

Epic gear should come at an epic price. That price means, for most players, evolving a character from having random gear to crafted gear to raid gear and then putting together a team to run the hardest quests in the game. Epic gear shouldn't be awarded for repetitively killing weak respawning mobs, WoW-style.

When you start giving away the game's top gear to the game's weakest characters, you are negatively impacting the longevity of the game. This is not unlike a kid playing a video game with cheat codes. Sure, he loves running around with Godmode and GiveMeAllAmmo active but he quits the game FAR sooner than he would without the cheat codes.

I'm not saying that easy-to-obtain Epic Gear is a cheat code but the concept of challenge vs. reward is similar.

next stop on the turbine money train? TODAY ONLY EPIC GEAR HALF PRICE! ONLY $19.95 FO YOUR VERY OWN EPIC LOOTZ. Tired of waiting? spend real money now and you can win now. then tweet about it. ugh.

Chai
02-23-2011, 12:24 PM
But seriously the fact that I have made 2 chaosblade competitors in 3 hours last night is insane. That really takes away from the exclusivity and grind anyone went through to get the former.

If they add a marilith chain knock off I'm killing myself.

So

/signed

If that exclusivity was attained through player skill and teamwork I would definately agree. In this version of epics, that exclusivity is attained through having more time on ones hands.

I have seen other threads where many of the same people are quick to argue amount of time =/= amount of challenge, to which I tend to agree. I see the tables turn alot however when these events crop up and people can now earn equally good loot at much less time spent doing so. Now all of a sudden, those of us who have earned good loot at the cost of alot of time are scoffing at the ability to earn equally good loot in a fraction of the time.

We see this alot when we enter the tier based power creep mechanic where people spend ALOT of time gaining a particular tier of loot, only for the next step to be taken and that rare loot or its equivilent is practically handed to any noob who can mash a button. The skilled players now have to farm even more to become only marginally better in gear, knowing full well that loot at that tier will also be handed to everyone at some point at far less time investment. The skilled elite players arent spending more time to have better loot for all time - they are spending that time to have better loot BEFORE everyone else.

So far DDO has been able to aviod **MOST of that, but we are seeing a bit of this with the events, and the items people can make from them.

crazy7381
02-23-2011, 12:32 PM
Yay for ppl whos' life doesn't revolve around a video game and who can farm and casually play with friends when the time arises instead of maybe running one epic every week in hopes of making something worthwhile a year later.

Heres to you ppl with family, a job, a life, responsiblities and limited free time enjoy your epic crafting instead of waiting on a wiz or sorc to firewall and epic mob while your perched on their stoop with them.

Heres to you button mashers

Quazi out
=-)
EDIT: This post is viewed as extremely negative. Viewer discretion is advised.
To all others with alot of free time go min/max something

smatt
02-23-2011, 01:00 PM
Coming to DDO SOON... Epic starter gear... Why bother to work to build a good toon...... For only $19.95 you YES you can have a fully twinked epic geared toon from day 1! No more runnning quests, planning your game time around trying to obtain the gear that will make your toon better, no more actually LEARNING what gear does, what combat tactics are, or what spells do.... You can have it all with the touch of a single button! Heck, for only $2.95 a quest you can just take the "Already Complete" option for each quest... You won't even have to fight your way through...... Every gamers dream come true...

It's not too far off :rolleyes:

Yes DDO the game of instant uber! :D

Crusad
02-23-2011, 01:05 PM
I agree, but i think we are missing one similar thread. Something like "Stop giving lame items for farming epic quests" (carnival etc.).

Anthios888
02-23-2011, 01:35 PM
Let's attack Dresek for being an elitist. He couldn't possibly have a point.

When Turbine decided to go epic with an item like Bloodstone, one of the most iconic trinkets in DDO, they were very cautious. The item was bumped from seeker 6 to seeker 8. No slots. Epic Desert's re-vamp left the item untouched. The Shard of the Epic Bloodstone is one of the rarer items in the scheme of epic, which as many have said, is already quite sparse. Several hundreds runs will not even come close to guarantee you the item.

Was it time for Bloodstone to finally get its retirement? Sure. Epic Bloodstone? Maybe ...

Last night I made a pair of items -- trinket and hat -- within a short gaming session that could have retired my wife's Epic Bloodstone and Epic Red Dragonhelm. Could I have been guaranteed even a base level 9 Bloodstone or Mentau's goggles in that time? Answer: lol.

All this stuff about how the game 'needs' free +8 seeker items and +6 earthgrab stunning unbalancing mauls for the poor, poor newbs is just sad. This game is about coordination.

I applaud some of the unique ac and dr armors, the underwater action ring, and other niche stuff, but the topic of this thread refers to the items where there was not the same level of creativity. Did we really all need a free Epic Chaosblade (a raid item that requires a feat)? I just don't understand the point of the Monty Haul in this case. It feels like nearly exact replicas of other items already around.

Running the bloodstone chest for 30 hours SHOULD be a thing of the past. Epic tried, but only partially fixed this problem of the past. Epic can be a grind, but at least it's a group grind for the most part. It's great to give out some nice equipment in the spirit of fun, especially flavor and niche equipment. However, throwing out multiple new "best in slots" for an hour of running goes farther than I would have expected and makes me really wonder what is in store for us in the future. I thought Mabar gear was pretty well-done, and I like that they are reaching out to a bigger range of the playerbase.

Some of us have fun in epic and actually run it instead of crying about it on the forums. The drop rates suck, but I like playing with my friends, and I like group coordination. Maybe I'm just lucky not to have to group with people making excuses all day. I am hoping Turbine can fix the bugs and revitalize this system. Please think about this before making personal attacks. You all make me feel so evil for playing this game.

But hey, I'll take the overpowered gear. My motto has always been to play the game how it is, not how it should be.

fredericko
02-23-2011, 01:45 PM
This is a birthday event, and these items are presents from Turbine, no more, no less. And they don't gift rubbish, as no one should. This event is not part of everyday DDO and shouldn't be compared to anything in DDO's rutine.

As a side node, our guildies and me had an absolute blast in the caves. Thus far, the event has proven to be really amazing.

grodon9999
02-23-2011, 01:46 PM
All this stuff about how the game 'needs' free +8 seeker items and +6 earthgrab stunning unbalancing mauls for the poor, poor newbs is just sad. This game is about coordination.

As I asked earlier, will this ubber-loot make one lick of difference for those who still wipe in Last Stand and have trouble with casual Amrath?

It's a hit off the crackpipe to get new junkies hooked.

Anthios888
02-23-2011, 01:49 PM
Coming to DDO SOON... Epic starter gear... Why bother to work to build a good toon...... For only $19.95 you YES you can have a fully twinked epic geared toon from day 1! No more runnning quests, planning your game time around trying to obtain the gear that will make your toon better, no more actually LEARNING what gear does, what combat tactics are, or what spells do....


+1. Generally I support things that help streamline the game experience, and I am not opposed to nice event rewards in general, but I feel the line has been pushed too far. At least this event requires some teamwork!

Anthios888
02-23-2011, 01:50 PM
As I asked earlier, will this ubber-loot make one lick of difference for those who still wipe in Last Stand and have trouble with casual Amrath?

It's a hit off the crackpipe to get new junkies hooked.

+6 earthgrab weighted 10 maul?

If I can convince you to take off your bow, even you could do epic =)

Chai
02-23-2011, 01:54 PM
Coming to DDO SOON... Epic starter gear... Why bother to work to build a good toon...... For only $19.95 you YES you can have a fully twinked epic geared toon from day 1! No more runnning quests, planning your game time around trying to obtain the gear that will make your toon better, no more actually LEARNING what gear does, what combat tactics are, or what spells do.... You can have it all with the touch of a single button! Heck, for only $2.95 a quest you can just take the "Already Complete" option for each quest... You won't even have to fight your way through...... Every gamers dream come true...

It's not too far off :rolleyes:

Yes DDO the game of instant uber! :D

YUS!!! Without having to actually play the game we can have more time to crank out spreadsheets, which is where the REAL dps is at.

/points down at American Flag Zubaz. YEAH!!!

Seikojin
02-23-2011, 01:56 PM
... Well... Unless they plan on upping the level cap into epic level range.

valorik
02-23-2011, 02:01 PM
This is so dumb. The point of the game, for many many players is to work to make their characters as good as possible. I don't mind when other people get better, but when you can get loot that is 95% as good as the best epic gear in the game in 2% of the time it seriously devalues the playtime we put into getting our gear. I don't get why people are saying that epic not being hard is a good reason to make it worthless, I mean that's like saying "oh epic is bad, so they should just give us everything for free".

I guarantee you if they were handing out tier 3 dual shard greensteels people wouldn't be saying "oh it's ok, shroud is easy anyways"

Maitland
02-23-2011, 02:01 PM
/signed

I didnt read all the posts i just zerged here.
Epic should = Epic


Bluntt

THOTHdha
02-23-2011, 02:04 PM
Epic gear should come at an epic price.

Yes.... because hanging off the side of a ledge while your Fire Wall slowly ticks down trash mob's HP to get Scrolls is an Epic Challenge. And spamming Mass Hold at everything that you can not simply move past invisible until the party reaches the boss is a truly epic encounter.

/sarcasm off
I said: /sarcasm off
grr. I think it's broken.

grodon9999
02-23-2011, 02:07 PM
+6 earthgrab weighted 10 maul?

That one is OTT, I'll concede that that weapon is crazy powerful for a free event. If only it were a war-hammer . . . .

But then again, put that in the hands and a new player it's not gonna make him ubber.



If I can convince you to take off your bow, even you could do epic =)

My non-event Epic items:

Red Dragon helm
Helm of Moronan (x2)
Belt of Moronan (x2)
Spectral gloves (will have a second as soon as I get another shard)
Scorched Bracers (x2)
Goggles of Time Sensing
Thornlord
Jidz Teka
Vulkorum Fighting Leathers (stop laughing, I'm serious! That's not funny!)
Gem of Many facets

And enough shards/seals/scrolls to make 5-10 more items ranging from complete junk to Vambraces of inner light. 1 Scroll and 1 shard away from claw-set.

Imagine how much loot I could score it if put down my bow and ran epics! :)

Anthios888
02-23-2011, 02:09 PM
... I'm uber I'm so uber ... *lists epic items*

Imagine how much loot I could score it if put down my bow and ran epics! :)

http://thepqnation.com/livingwicked/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/JokeOverHead3.jpg

broolthebeast
02-23-2011, 02:10 PM
All the whining is quite entertaining imo. People are so bent outta shape over a some silly items.

You spent countless hours in epic quests, countless completions and finally just finally got a random lucky roll and a scroll dropped so you could FINALLY get you're epic item. Congrats. You got a top tier item not because of you're skill but because you got *lucky*. If scrolls worked like all other loot, that would be one thing.

We now have a *temporary* birthday event, where the developers threw out some gifts to say thank you for you're 5 years of support and everyone wants to throw a hissy fit because they think it just degraded a broken system? Too funny.

Honestly, I dont feel the epic grind is worth the time. Every quest in the game can be completed on any difficulty without said gear. Trying to get the correct scroll to drop from the desert makes me want to slit my wrists. Not because it's too hard, but because its just flat out to random.

stainer
02-23-2011, 02:11 PM
http://thepqnation.com/livingwicked/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/JokeOverHead3.jpg

That is some fancy art right there. :)

grodon9999
02-23-2011, 02:11 PM
http://thepqnation.com/livingwicked/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/JokeOverHead3.jpg

LOL - you got me there. I'm stealing that picture.

Talon_Moonshadow
02-23-2011, 02:12 PM
I don't know.

I know what you're saying, but the event is fun. And current Epics have issues that I do not like.

While it is easy to get the best items from the event, I have not found it easy to get more than one. (per event)

And I do not have a single epic item from epic quests yet. And I can't find groups to do epics.....except for the quick exploitish loot runs.

On one had, I think epic items should be rare, and require epic tasks. But on the other hand this is more fun and more successful and fullfilling for me than the method most players use to get other epic items. And epic quests aren't really epic IMO opinion either. Nothing epic about Ogres and Mephits with a million HP.

At least a one time even feels more special to me.

Kominalito
02-23-2011, 02:12 PM
b-b-but if its hard to get epic gears, what will keep all the F2P MMO tourists here?

Anthios888
02-23-2011, 02:12 PM
Yes.... because hanging off the side of a ledge while your Fire Wall slowly ticks down trash mob's HP to get Scrolls is an Epic Challenge.

This is like the 5th post about firewall perching.

Anyone ever considered that there might be a different way to do it? I can't think of the last time I saw someone perching... maybe that's part of why I sit in class looking forward to getting home and running epic again with my favorite toons.

Did you know?

You can get epic loot by grabbing 4-5 friends or puggers and playing the game?

Itachi83
02-23-2011, 02:14 PM
The loot is actually a bunch of ****.

Bold trinket is nice, but both Lotd and bloodstone are better stat consolidation items imo.


Stunning Blow is weaksauce compared to SF and Masshold.

The scimi's are meh.




You can get epic loot by grabbing 4-5 friends or puggers and playing the game?

lol.

grodon9999
02-23-2011, 02:19 PM
You can get epic loot by grabbing 4-5 friends or puggers and playing the game?

And you can do it much faster in the birthday event! :)

nanobot1994
02-23-2011, 02:21 PM
I totally understand your point. But, like it or not, Epic Quests are currently the hardest thing to do in the game. Sure, there are tricks to make them easier and sure, sorcs are soloing them but, on average, across the board, epics are the hardest. Those of us who are spoiled (and I include myself) by running epics every night with some of the best built, best geared characters in the game forget that those quests can be hard.

C'mon, epics are insanely easy once you've done them at least once with a person to tell you all the tricks. In fact, healing for epics is pretty much the easiest thing you can do, in my experience. This includes raid bosses mind you, they all have the DPS of a poorly geared barb at the very best. Wait, mass heal, cycle. Click clickys every 3mins.

This isn't 'hard', this doesn't take much gear, its just mind numbingly boring. Infact, if they just said you cant play your char for a set amount of time and just gave you a shard/seal/scroll, it would probably be the same thing. Youre not putting a significant effort in epics, at all.

This is from the perspective of a player thats been around for a little less than a year. I can only imagine how bad it is for the older players.

This maybe be repeating what others have said, but I only read the first page :/

Anthios888
02-23-2011, 02:21 PM
And you can do it much faster in the birthday event! :)

Got me here! Had a blast.

ThePrincipal
02-23-2011, 02:22 PM
i never liked grinding. i have a single gs helmet blank in the bank doing nothing because ... well no interest in completing it even though i have all the ingrediants (i actually like running shroud for xp and think its a fun raid).

i didnt like the mabar event. played for an hour and stopped. no items.

i love this event. i enjoy the concept of the pirate cove and just think it adds a lot of fun. nobody in the farming groups i was with was having a bad time. just doing it for fun for a couple hours, decided to check out what the heck all these gems do, and I traded them in for tier 1 epic leathers for my evasion fighter. finally a quality suit of light armor geared toward AC. my first taste of epic gear and i am hooked. i am now looking forward to earning the epic ring and epic gloves to go with it. i'll prob get the epic calv plate to bank for future alt use. i love the flavor of the rewards too.

excellent event.

i think i'll complete that gs helmet this week.

AMDarkwolf
02-23-2011, 02:23 PM
Id say just modify the current system and make it so that you can create the non epic versions of the items in the even as normal, but make the lv 21-25 cove dungeons drop a 'seal' or 'shard' at a chance based on the diff(lv 21 lowish chance, lv 25 higher chance)- Then allow that to be used to create the epic version.

By epic version of the items i mean that the original lv 20 item(even though named 'epic') isn't epic, but adding in tiers 1 and 2 it does become epic. (The ring is the item I am thinking right now, the base item is nice, and more than most raid gear, but a touch less than what epic gear is, i'd put it on same level as a tod ring, at tier 2 it replaces a few pieces of gear you may have, but still isn't 'epic', but at tier 3 it gains good luck 2 AND a green slot, and it massively overshadows any epic ring ive seen for any toon who values dex.

Part of the issue also lies in many epic items, while helpful/useful, require massive amounts of grinding, yet don't stand quite up to what you have provided in the live events. Red fens epic items as an example, need at least a yellow slot mixed into the sets somehow, to make them 'on par' with what your providing here.

grodon9999
02-23-2011, 02:23 PM
b-b-but if its hard to get epic gears, what will keep all the F2P MMO tourists here?

Exactly! It's the hit off the crackpipe. A F2P guys gets a great weapon that he can't use until level 20. He now might spend the time to level the toon to 20 to use it, may even buy a content pack or two for said character. It's all a marketing thing.

nanobot1994
02-23-2011, 02:26 PM
Oh. On a side note, this is much much better than mabar. Especially the BtA, not BtC. Before we get all annoyed, we cant get the lv4 versions as lv20s unless Im missing something. I ONLY get emeralds and diamonds.

Coldest
02-23-2011, 02:30 PM
This thread is like watching two men clean a sewer where the first guy complains because the second guy fearted.




You got a top tier item not because of you're skill but because you got *lucky*.

good point... Or because you are conniving and manipulative enough to take advantage of your guildies to beat the odds or be the first.

transtemporal
02-23-2011, 02:33 PM
I agree drac. I know why they're doing it though. Its like when drug dealers give their customers a free first sample. Lol

Soleran
02-23-2011, 02:35 PM
Id say just modify the current system and make it so that you can create the non epic versions of the items in the even as normal, but make the lv 21-25 cove dungeons drop a 'seal' or 'shard' at a chance based on the diff(lv 21 lowish chance, lv 25 higher chance)- Then allow that to be used to create the epic version.



So basically fall back to the old system of I hope I can make this epic and by the way you get 5 days to do this with.

The problem with epic loot (imo) is that it's really the only way to upgrade from GS and it isn't the same type of power leap you get from non gs items to gs items. Epic items are rare and a rather large amount of them are poorly itemized and have little value to most gamer goals.

Really though what's the problem with the item's being distributed in game with the current method? Does it decrease your item's ability to be epic if you have epic items? Does it make your items less effective? Does it take away from your gaming experience because someone you don't know might have gotten some "epic" loot?

Right, I think the event is fun and if anyone can get fun gear from the event that's an upgrade good for them.

crazy7381
02-23-2011, 02:35 PM
Aaarrrrhhhggggggg Nerd Rage Nerd Smash
Uber Character Nerd Smash
Epic Items Nerd Smash
Trollin The Forums Nerd Smash

transtemporal
02-23-2011, 02:36 PM
http://thepqnation.com/livingwicked/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/JokeOverHead3.jpg

Lol, nice man. :)

grodon9999
02-23-2011, 02:38 PM
Lol, nice man. :)

She's not a man

grodon9999
02-23-2011, 02:38 PM
Aaarrrrhhhggggggg Nerd Rage Nerd Smash


I think I just found the name for my barbarian . . .

KanedaEX
02-23-2011, 02:42 PM
Let me start by saying that I absolutely LOVE the new event. It's one of the most fun, creative things I've seen in 12+ years of MMOs. But giving epic loot away for this event and events like it is not good for the game.

In my opinion, the biggest mistake Turbine has made in the last 18 months is the current practice of giving epic gear for what amounts to basically farming non-epic trash mobs in live events. Mabar handwraps, Epic Cloak of the Night, Pirate Hats, and Trinkets are all ridiculously powerful items and are far too easy to get.

Epic gear should come at an epic price. That price means, for most players, evolving a character from having random gear to crafted gear to raid gear and then putting together a team to run the hardest quests in the game. Epic gear shouldn't be awarded for repetitively killing weak respawning mobs, WoW-style.

When you start giving away the game's top gear to the game's weakest characters, you are negatively impacting the longevity of the game. This is not unlike a kid playing a video game with cheat codes. Sure, he loves running around with Godmode and GiveMeAllAmmo active but he quits the game FAR sooner than he would without the cheat codes.

I'm not saying that easy-to-obtain Epic Gear is a cheat code but the concept of challenge vs. reward is similar.

Yeah sure, because farming epic items was so much cool before.

Turbine the event was awesome! Felt much less grindy than mabar. I loved the quests and specially the items. I strongly appreciate the risk and the effort to give cool gear to the people. Its a great oppotunitie for newer toons/players to gear up and contribute more at other quests. Awesome job!

Raiderone
02-23-2011, 02:42 PM
http://thepqnation.com/livingwicked/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/JokeOverHead3.jpg

Yup I think we got a winner here for DDO's next picture contest! :eek:

Jahmin
02-23-2011, 02:46 PM
This is a birthday event, and these items are presents from Turbine, no more, no less. And they don't gift rubbish, as no one should.

Unfortunately, this is Turbine and they do give **** birthday presents... :rolleyes:

Everything after the Birthday cake has been an utter letdown and major disappointment :mad:

typical :(

Bargol
02-23-2011, 02:49 PM
Why all the moaning and complaining.....so some people with farm and get a couple epic items in the few days of the event. When its all over things will go back to the way they were before. How does it really effect you? Maybe a person will be slightly better equiped when they hit your LFM. Seems like a win for you....but...

Seems more like "Wah Boo Hoo....I don't want noobs to be Leeet like me"

I like the event, unlike maybar, and might actually participate.

crazy7381
02-23-2011, 02:49 PM
I think I just found the name for my barbarian . . .

I am glad i can assist you lol

Draccus
02-23-2011, 02:52 PM
My motto has always been to play the game how it is, not how it should be.

You know, Rock, if I would play by that motto, I'd enjoy the game 100% more and post on the forums 100% less.

Great advice.

morticianjohn
02-23-2011, 02:55 PM
I agree, but i think we are missing one similar thread. Something like "Stop giving lame items for farming epic quests" (carnival etc.).

Yeah if they narrowed down the scrolls and shard drops to only useful epic equipment but kept the same drop rate..... No more pulling epic crossbows or other useless epic items

Irinis
02-23-2011, 02:56 PM
This is so dumb. The point of the game, for many many players is to work to make their characters as good as possible. I don't mind when other people get better, but when you can get loot that is 95% as good as the best epic gear in the game in 2% of the time it seriously devalues the playtime we put into getting our gear. I don't get why people are saying that epic not being hard is a good reason to make it worthless, I mean that's like saying "oh epic is bad, so they should just give us everything for free".

I guarantee you if they were handing out tier 3 dual shard greensteels people wouldn't be saying "oh it's ok, shroud is easy anyways"

Guess what? I still have to grind epic gloves of the claw on 3 characters and all I've ever gotten is the seal, I'm just glad the brawling gloves are something OK to put in that slot until I get claw and tharne's.

Anyone who wants chaosblades is still going to want chaosblades, why? Because khopesh > scimi, even if you have to spend a feat on it, unless you're an Elf, and anyone rolling an Elf needs all the help they can get from gear! lol

It's still a grind for the REAL THING. These are nice, but that's all they are - nice.

Now if they'd made a customizable QUIVER with heavy fort and true seeing and UMD+3 and ranged alacrity 10% and 2 custom slots you could put seeker or archmagi on... that'd be overpowered. And it would be AWESOME.

Chette
02-23-2011, 02:58 PM
I have to commend Turbine on the implementation of the pirate hats. I would love to see more customizable/upgradeable gear like this, more flexibility. The hats are by far these best done item in the new live event, but the price is far far too low. I was flabbergasted by the drop rates when I set foot into the cove, I was expecting 25%, maybe even 10% of that rate. I was able to fully upgrade a trinket and hat, as well as making a base level 20 item, with plenty to spare if I could have decided what else I wanted.

No, I don't love the epic grind the way it is currently set up. I would love it if there were a system where I could exchange, say, a shard, seal and scroll from one area and be given my choice of a large selection of shards, or seals, or scrolls from that same area. Like turning in draconic runes for eldrich runes in the refuge. There needs to be some way of giving people a better chance to build the epic item they actually want, instead of having a bag full or rotting weathered targe seals.

But I don't think the solution to this was to create a selection of extremely powerful items that can be obtained overnight by characters that have never and may never set foot into an epic quest or raid. These events should give newer players, or players with newer characters, access to some customizable items that are comparable to basic raid gear, or some niche items aimed at a specific task.

At the very least, make the live event more challenging. Have some epic worthy mobs drop gems required for the crafting of level 20 items, add some additional puzzles and team challenges to the mining portion (we just had 1 person do the torches and the rest of us roamed and killed at our leisure, easily obtaining 300 shards per run) require epic dungeon tokens for final upgrades.

Bradik_Losdar
02-23-2011, 02:58 PM
Can't really agree with the OP.

These events are very short lived and do require a lot of dedicated work to get. The window of opportuity is very small and if you miss it, too bad - no epic for joo! - unlike all other epic items which can be farmed/ground for year round.

Irinis
02-23-2011, 03:01 PM
http://thepqnation.com/livingwicked/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/JokeOverHead3.jpg

I think he just wanted to /showoff. :D

grodon9999
02-23-2011, 03:08 PM
I think he just wanted to /showoff. :D

Moi? I'm as humble as they get . . .

valorik
02-23-2011, 03:52 PM
Anyone who wants chaosblades is still going to want chaosblades, why? Because khopesh > scimi, even if you have to spend a feat on it, unless you're an Elf, and anyone rolling an Elf needs all the help they can get from gear! lol

It's still a grind for the REAL THING. These are nice, but that's all they are - nice.



Yes, but it still makes the grind far far less valuable, and it's still giving loot of near equal value at no where near the work.

lazylaz
02-23-2011, 03:54 PM
This thread is like watching two men clean a sewer where the first guy complains because the second guy fearted.







OMG whats a feart!? Remind me to never experience one of them.

And on topic - I have way too many characters and so little time to run the fun event that I doubt I'll be able to get more than one major item. Or many lesser items for that matter. I like the hats.

Chai
02-23-2011, 04:11 PM
All the whining is quite entertaining imo. People are so bent outta shape over a some silly items.

You spent countless hours in epic quests, countless completions and finally just finally got a random lucky roll and a scroll dropped so you could FINALLY get you're epic item. Congrats. You got a top tier item not because of you're skill but because you got *lucky*. If scrolls worked like all other loot, that would be one thing.

We now have a *temporary* birthday event, where the developers threw out some gifts to say thank you for you're 5 years of support and everyone wants to throw a hissy fit because they think it just degraded a broken system? Too funny.

Honestly, I dont feel the epic grind is worth the time. Every quest in the game can be completed on any difficulty without said gear. Trying to get the correct scroll to drop from the desert makes me want to slit my wrists. Not because it's too hard, but because its just flat out to random.

Yeap exactly.

I wonder what the demographic is for people who log onto the forums to moan about how much Turbine sucks citing some reason or other, and then their very next action is to log into DDO.

AylinIsAwesome
02-23-2011, 04:30 PM
How do you account for people who never play epic - and don't care about it? Then again I don't care about this event either - and I didn't care about the mabar event.

I'm glad you recognize that this is your opinion. Just remember there are plenty of people that play MMO's that don't grind the high end.

To use the most popular one (at the moment) as an example. IIRC less than 20% of their userbase bothered with raiding at all (prior to WoTLK which they modified to get more people into the raid game).

At the time they had a sub base of around 8 million people. 80% of 8 million is 6.4 million that never bothered with 'chasing the cheese' of the most popular MMO.

While I'm glad people who base their fun around chasing that upgrade have a path here - you must realize that this is not actually the majority of subscribers (based on past evidence).


That's a hasty generalization.

You cannot use a sample size of one to determine things for the group as a whole.

Chai
02-23-2011, 04:36 PM
That's a hasty generalization.

You cannot use a sample size of one to determine things for the group as a whole.

Really?

I see alot of making assumptions that everything else is the same or similar to the sample we just pulled out of a much larger and more complicated equation, assuming everything else to be equal, around these parts actually.

Turbine has already commented on the percentage of players who run epic quests. We dont need to assume or use a sample size.

Irinis
02-23-2011, 04:41 PM
Yes, but it still makes the grind far far less valuable, and it's still giving loot of near equal value at no where near the work.

Ohh I see that just devalued all your scrolls. Valid point. However I for one am happy there's temporarily a solution of ALMOST awesome gear in this one-time event. Because the best is still the best, and will still be wanted, but for those of us who aren't as lucky as some, these "welfare epics" will help us gimp along a bit better.

Is there an official announcement that it will be returning next year? If these are one-time only items, would that change your perception?

Ungood
02-23-2011, 04:42 PM
To make an Epic item in these events requires Epic tokens, which only come from Epic Dungeons, ergo the Epic work has been done.

Case dismissed.

protokon
02-23-2011, 04:48 PM
To make an Epic item in these events requires Epic tokens, which only come from Epic Dungeons, ergo the Epic work has been done.

Case dismissed.

wrong. try again.

EDIT: I think implementing 1 epic dungeon token to the cost of creating the level 20 versions at the minimum (and probably a token for each upgrade beyond that) would make it a little bit more acceptable to the power gamers.

Ungood
02-23-2011, 04:52 PM
wrong. try again.

Mabar was mentioned, and they required an Epic token to make the level 20 item. Unless you missed the event, you would know that as well.

If this event (which is not fully live yet) has a different MO, I have yet to see it.

protokon
02-23-2011, 04:56 PM
Mabar was mentioned, and they required an Epic token to make the level 20 item. Unless you missed the event, you would know that as well.

If this event (which is not fully live yet) has a different MO, I have yet to see it.

Mabar event items were not nearly as powerful as some of these items. and these items don't require an epic token for this event.

elujin
02-23-2011, 05:06 PM
i still don't see whats so greath about these items except mebey the monk gloves (don't have casters don't know about the dagger)

but if i am wrong i am sure you won't mind trading that epic sos scrole with the mats for a Epic Brigand's Cutlass would you ?

valorik
02-23-2011, 05:08 PM
Ohh I see that just devalued all your scrolls. Valid point. However I for one am happy there's temporarily a solution of ALMOST awesome gear in this one-time event. Because the best is still the best, and will still be wanted, but for those of us who aren't as lucky as some, these "welfare epics" will help us gimp along a bit better.

Is there an official announcement that it will be returning next year? If these are one-time only items, would that change your perception?

No it wouldn't, it's not about my scrolls, I don't keep a lot on me, nor do I care much for trading. What it's about is if say you were the person who has the epic chaosblade, now what does it matter, when everyone now get's virtually the same item but with 2 less average damage a hit in 3 hours as opposed to the hundred dq's and epic wiz kings you ran for yours.

Grandesa
02-23-2011, 05:08 PM
I will have to agree with 1/2 of the posts here that allowing this kinda of gear to be obtained so easily, takes away the real challenge of acquiring it, yes u might see that one scroll drop u need in 2-3 months of Epic raids, but the wait the work and the value of it makes it worth getting imo.

I used to be a WoW player and I'm not going to try to insult Blizzard, WoW, or even new players in the following quote, but someone is gonna have to say it, and it might as well be me. So if you take offense to it oh well.. sometimes the truth can hurt, or its only 1 person's opinion amongst the thousands, tens of thousands that play DDO.

To allow these Epic items to be this easily attained it can possibly allow new level 20 players that don't have a clue how to play their class nor how to do the "end content" Epic raids to join up just becuz they can link the raid leader these new Epic items just so they can come.

"Hey I'm a fresh level 20 fighter, I have the Epic shield, scimitar, ring, gloves, goggles from Smugglers Rest!, I can tank for you, Can I join your Epic raid?"

Can we say WoW's same idea of releasing the Tournament of Champions Release? No clue players with easily obtained epic gear on, in End Content Epic Raids do not mix. We all know someone on our server that is considered a "fail healer, tank, CC caster, etc..' and just giving that person more availability to easy Epic gear is not going to help when he fails because he doesn't have a real clue how to play his class. It's only going to make it worse for every1 else in the raid that he join, just because he got new epic gear from smuggler's rest.

I say change the dungeon to make it more challenging, Change it to Epic version for all i care. Just quit making it so easy to get end content based gear. If you want the gear, earn like the rest of us who's had to run the Epic dungeons and raids to farm for the gear we deserve, just don't hand it out.

grodon9999
02-23-2011, 05:14 PM
. . . . What it's about is if say you were the person who has the epic chaosblade, now what does it matter, when everyone now get's virtually the same item but with 2 less average damage a hit in 3 hours as opposed to the hundred dq's and epic wiz kings you ran for yours.

Why does that matter? You still have the Epic Chaos Blade, somebody else getting stuff doesn't take way from that.

theRolf
02-23-2011, 05:22 PM
The realistic easy crafting during these events does 2 things:

1. It allows ALL a chance to get some gear they can be proud of without investing literally hundreds of hours just to get a chance at something cool - all the while being "gimped" bc they aren't geared.

2. It just may add some variety to some build options that don't exist today. I am so sick of looking at my minos helm i could puke, Yeah, I could take it off if I would only acquire x,x,x, and x, from running x epic 150 times. Or worse, have somebody give me ****. How rewarding is that charity case?

Grinds sucks and it is not necessary to have fun, and a game should be fun.

Dysmetria
02-23-2011, 05:22 PM
Once the epic reboot hits, I wonder if these same people are going to be whining about it being too easy too.

Invalid_50
02-23-2011, 05:22 PM
In my opinion events are the only time "Epic" items should be able to be obtained at all.

I understand this is an MMO, but its an MMO about D&D. No one would play D&D with a DM that forced his/her players to run the same module over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. MMOers do that, they have been trained to do that with UO and Everquest, and WOW. ("Go round up 500 of your closest friends and kill Idiotsauce, the giant squid in the bottomless lake and bring back his thumb. what's that? you killed him and he didn't have a thumb? try again in 3 days n00b")

This is an MMO so we need some repetition, but we don't want it served to us in galactically stupid proportions. This is likely the reason few people run quests on epic at all, they like D&D more than generic MMO grind 1000.

It's the MMO in us that forces us to accept some repetition, we need to embrace the D&D in us that points out the importance of diversity, creativity, and the abstention of repeating the same quest over and over for one silly item.

Postumus
02-23-2011, 05:24 PM
YUS!!! Without having to actually play the game we can have more time to crank out spreadsheets, which is where the REAL dps is at.

YEAH!!!


Oh THAT's what DPS means! "Data Per Spreadsheet!"


I always suspected as much. :)

I_Bob
02-23-2011, 05:24 PM
/signed

valorik
02-23-2011, 05:26 PM
Why does that matter? You still have the Epic Chaos Blade, somebody else getting stuff doesn't take way from that.

It matters because it decreases the worth of all the time you put into getting it to the difference between the epic chaosblade and the epic brigands cutlass, I know a few people who would have much rather taken an epic brigand's cutlass and not bothered with the grind to get an epic chaosblade. I mean sure now that you have one it's not worth throwing away, but really, it's such a minor increase now as opposed to what it was before.

Postumus
02-23-2011, 05:26 PM
In my opinion events are the only time "Epic" items should be able to be obtained at all.

I understand this is an MMO, but its an MMO about D&D. No one would play D&D with a DM that forced his/her players to run the same module over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. MMOers do that, they have been trained to do that with UO and Everquest, and WOW. ("Go round up 500 of your closest friends and kill Idiotsauce, the giant squid in the bottomless lake and bring back his thumb. what's that? you killed him and he didn't have a thumb? try again in 3 days n00b")



I LIKE this idea! You can still have righteous gear for the gullib- ER- dedicated players to farm, but the really great, one-of-a-kind stuff should be from unique events.

I think it's more in the spirit of PnP.

broolthebeast
02-23-2011, 05:34 PM
No it wouldn't, it's not about my scrolls, I don't keep a lot on me, nor do I care much for trading. What it's about is if say you were the person who has the epic chaosblade, now what does it matter, when everyone now get's virtually the same item but with 2 less average damage a hit in 3 hours as opposed to the hundred dq's and epic wiz kings you ran for yours.

Id say congrats, now said person might perform a bit better when raiding/grouping with me. Time to continue my gaming.

protokon
02-23-2011, 05:36 PM
The realistic easy crafting during these events does 2 things:

1. It allows ALL a chance to get some gear they can be proud of without investing literally hundreds of hours just to get a chance at something cool - all the while being "gimped" bc they aren't geared.
-a gimp with epic gear is still a gimp, it's not there gear that makes them terrible players, it's there playing ability itself.

2. It just may add some variety to some build options that don't exist today. I am so sick of looking at my minos helm i could puke, Yeah, I could take it off if I would only acquire x,x,x, and x, from running x epic 150 times. Or worse, have somebody give me ****. How rewarding is that charity case?
-I hate the one helmet option myself, and I am sure many others do, unless you are a specific build, then maybe 1 or 2 epic helms will replace it


Grinds sucks and it is not necessary to have fun, and a game should be fun.
-It's not fun for folks who worked hard to obtain the best items they can (and I am talking hundreds of hours over a course of a year+) just to be undermined by someone who can do 3 hours of *less* work.


I find the event itself extremely fun, I really do. but the power of some of these items should probably be looked at - or the epic items themselves should be given a boost to not undermine the amount of work put into them.

Soleran
02-23-2011, 05:37 PM
It matters because it decreases the worth of all the time you put into getting it to the difference between the epic chaosblade and the epic brigands cutlass, I know a few people who would have much rather taken an epic brigand's cutlass and not bothered with the grind to get an epic chaosblade. I mean sure now that you have one it's not worth throwing away, but really, it's such a minor increase now as opposed to what it was before.

Right, it's a time issue. The real issue is that the person who farmed and got lucky or had friends help them etc can no longer claim exclusivity to that "elite" bracket of what I would assume is DPS as that's part of the discussion here.

At this time there is a small window for people to craft these items so the elitism can be maintained regardless of some newer epic dps options, because that's all that I'm reading in regards to epic loot farming and this event. Sorry you feel that way your epics are not diminished in their purpose or value so enjoy the festival or not.

Anthios888
02-23-2011, 05:39 PM
Why does that matter? You still have the Epic Chaos Blade, somebody else getting stuff doesn't take way from that.

For me it's like this. I love running the epic desert quests. I just think they're fun. I still run out there hoping for the Shard of the Bloodstone, maybe some Spectral Gloves, and certainly another pair of Epic Chaosblades. I know I'm an exception, but I still like seeing people able to complete a few of those armors like vulkoorim fighting leathers, tourney armor, shield of the scorpion, etc.

This event has made such carbon copies of many of these items, that there is no loner a niche for them anymore.

So what do I run?

Variety is a good thing.

Sethasoigh
02-23-2011, 05:40 PM
Ok i read the entire post and just would like to point out this one thing. When the people who don't play as much and are undergeared use this event to get the items, isn't that a good thing because then they will not be as much of a drain when your 1 spot short and decide to open your all guild run to a PuG?

It looks to me like this event will benefit all gamers as it will be really hard to have a toon that doesn't have some gear that makes them better for the group without overshadowing the current epic items that are obtained through epic questing.

Personally i could grab that scimmy now but i'm to close to getting epic chaos blades and will keep grinding for those.

broolthebeast
02-23-2011, 05:45 PM
For me it's like this. I love running the epic desert quests. I just think they're fun. I still run out there hoping for the Shard of the Bloodstone, maybe some Spectral Gloves, and certainly another pair of Epic Chaosblades. I know I'm an exception, but I still like seeing people able to complete a few of those armors like vulkoorim fighting leathers, tourney armor, shield of the scorpion, etc.

This event has made such carbon copies of many of these items, that there is no loner a niche for them anymore.

So what do I run?

Variety is a good thing.


You continue running those epic desert quests that you just stated you love running and think are fun.

Because items will be available now that are not quite epic does that change the quest all of a sudden that you love running? I dont see how it would.

katz
02-23-2011, 05:48 PM
hey, if any of you on orien are gonna /ragequit over this... can i have your stuff?

Anthios888
02-23-2011, 05:52 PM
You continue running those epic desert quests that you just stated you love running and think are fun.

Because items will be available now that are not quite epic does that change the quest all of a sudden that you love running? I dont see how it would.

I like running tear of Dhakaan but I don't farm that every night. Obviously the end goal comes into the equation at some point!

krud
02-23-2011, 05:57 PM
Last event I participated in was devil's assault and was happy enough to get a couple of unbound large ingredient bags. I haven't participated in any events since. Farming stuff, especially when it's gotta all be done in a short frenzy, just doesn't interest me at all. I don't care how good the items are. I just hope people don't expect all these as must have items now (like icy bursted every weapon in game). power creep sux.

Chai
02-23-2011, 06:00 PM
It matters because it decreases the worth of all the time you put into getting it to the difference between the epic chaosblade and the epic brigands cutlass, I know a few people who would have much rather taken an epic brigand's cutlass and not bothered with the grind to get an epic chaosblade. I mean sure now that you have one it's not worth throwing away, but really, it's such a minor increase now as opposed to what it was before.

This is what happens in MMOs, period.

Painting a picture that older gear should never be surpassed by newer gear is unrealistic. You dont farm those long hours to get the item that will always be the best item of its type in the game. You grind those long hours knowing you are getting that item BEFORE most other people have it, and you are on top for the moment. Once that moment passes and new stuff comes out, that item is no longer on top.

This has been the pattern in all MMOs as well as DDO for a while now.

ellamonster
02-23-2011, 06:01 PM
Mabar event loot didn't break the game and neither does the Smuggler Rest event. Epic event gear is simply better itemized compared to other epic content which is the crux of the issue. Existing epic quest/raid itemization needs another revamp.

I agree just the base level 20 Cavalry Plate is better then the Epic Fullplate of the Ringleader, I think the Ringleader plate needs a jump not the other way around.

Fundamental
02-23-2011, 06:02 PM
I completely disagree with this Tread, it's a 5th anniversary and since Turbine ment this as a reward to players, getting these Epic items in a easier way, is completely intentional and as said before, the event is exclusive and one time. These aren't the best items, there a luxury to have and a great initiative and it's Turbine saying thank you!

After

protokon
02-23-2011, 06:02 PM
This is what happens in MMOs, period.

Painting a picture that older gear should never be surpassed by newer gear is unrealistic. You dont farm those long hours to get the item that will always be the best item of its type in the game. You grind those long hours knowing you are getting that item BEFORE most other people have it, and you are on top for the moment. Once that moment passes and new stuff comes out, that item is no longer on top.

This has been the pattern in all MMOs as well as DDO for a while now.

your replacing our gear we grinded for hundreds of hours with gear that can be received in as little as 3 hours. that is the problem here, not the fact that it is no longer on top.

de-valueing our playtime just sucks.

Soleran
02-23-2011, 06:04 PM
your replacing our gear we grinded for hundreds of hours with gear that can be received in as little as 3 hours. that is the problem here, not the fact that it is no longer on top.

de-valueing our playtime just sucks.

It's already been stated that the chaos scimitars are still less dps then the khopeshes, you're still king there how is that bad?

Ganak
02-23-2011, 06:11 PM
If the loot wasn't epic, would you run the event?

Krag
02-23-2011, 06:18 PM
This is what happens in MMOs, period.

Painting a picture that older gear should never be surpassed by newer gear is unrealistic. You dont farm those long hours to get the item that will always be the best item of its type in the game. You grind those long hours knowing you are getting that item BEFORE most other people have it, and you are on top for the moment. Once that moment passes and new stuff comes out, that item is no longer on top.

This has been the pattern in all MMOs as well as DDO for a while now.

You left out the crucial part of the "MMO pattern". Loot gets obsoleted/replaced by the items coming from newer, tougher, more challenging content.

Although there are some f2p games where best loot comes from the cash shop.

theRolf
02-23-2011, 06:21 PM
I find the event itself extremely fun, I really do. but the power of some of these items should probably be looked at - or the epic items themselves should be given a boost to not undermine the amount of work put into them.

Agreed. And when I said "gimp" in my earlier stement it was more along the lines of "fun for everyone". I was not insinuating in any way that gear can make a bad player better. But even "bad" players deserve to have fun. That's why they log on. : )

Tsuarok
02-23-2011, 06:27 PM
As has been pointed out by others, epic only means minlvl 20 to turbine. Nothing more.

bishopthewhite
02-23-2011, 06:42 PM
Lets say someone works his ass off his whole life to save for retirement( lets say he saves up $1,000,000) He spends countless amounts of "time"working overtime ,extra hours just so he can have a comfortable life.

Now lets say someone works just to get by in life, doesnt save any money for retirement, works as little as possible, didnt feel he needed to work hard and now its time to retire and the government steps in and decides to give him $950,000 for his retirement to help him out cause he doesnt have much money.

So how do you think the guy who worked his ass off for what he got should feel about the guy who got it handed to him. It doesnt effect the guy who saved a million bucks, he still has his money but really who can blame him for being upset.

Maybe he should have not bothered working hard and put in the time for his money and just waited for his handout as well.

What giving these items out so easily does is make the newer players say bah why bother running epic quests to get good gear, i can just wait till the next event comes out to gear my toon.

And to those who took the time and put in the work to get good items they now think why bother i can just wait till events come out to get stuff just slightly less valuable then the items that require time and effort.

When things are giving out too easily in this game or real life it makes ppl put out less effort and time when they know there is a handout waiting for them.

And thats what we all need are ppl who dont want to work for what they get.
Cant wait to live in a society where ppl arent expected to work for what they get and everyone gets the same as the next person no matter how hard they work or how much time they put into life.

While its nice that turbine is running this event i just think they went a little overboard on the items.

Solmage
02-23-2011, 06:46 PM
Look, the thread is pointless, it's not going to change anything for one simple reason: The powers that be know you, the dedicated power gamer, won't quit over this, but the less dedicated players do quit because they can't have the shiny stuff without working for it for half a year to a year.

The fact is that even among long time players, only a fraction got into epics, for the rest it was 'too hard', whether by skill or effort involved, they simply didn't go for it. These type of events appease those customers and make them feel like they're on par with the elite.

(Just look at all the people arguing about how 'good' this event is and how everything is wonderful and how you really aren't loosing anything, blah blah)

However, I do understand the problem OP: Long term, this is terrible for the game. When you give away near top-tier gear like this, you remove any motivation to stay with the game once you do have said gear. Why run any epics anymore. And if you don't run epics, then exactly what do you run?

I'll give this: The event is fun, but instead of giving away epic items, they should have given away upgrades for existing epic items, to make them epic-er.

grodon9999
02-23-2011, 07:02 PM
Lets say someone works his ass off his whole life to save for retirement( lets say he saves up $1,000,000) He spends countless amounts of "time"working overtime ,extra hours just so he can have a comfortable life.

Now lets say someone works just to get by in life, doesnt save any money for retirement, works as little as possible, didnt feel he needed to work hard and now its time to retire and the government steps in and decides to give him $950,000 for his retirement to help him out cause he doesnt have much money.

So how do you think the guy who worked his ass off for what he got should feel about the guy who got it handed to him. It doesnt effect the guy who saved a million bucks, he still has his money but really who can blame him for being upset.

Maybe he should have not bothered working hard and put in the time for his money and just waited for his handout as well.

What giving these items out so easily does is make the newer players say bah why bother running epic quests to get good gear, i can just wait till the next event comes out to gear my toon.

And to those who took the time and put in the work to get good items they now think why bother i can just wait till events come out to get stuff just slightly less valuable then the items that require time and effort.

When things are giving out too easily in this game or real life it makes ppl put out less effort and time when they know there is a handout waiting for them.

And thats what we all need are ppl who dont want to work for what they get.
Cant wait to live in a society where ppl arent expected to work for what they get and everyone gets the same as the next person no matter how hard they work or how much time they put into life.

While its nice that turbine is running this event i just think they went a little overboard on the items.

You do know that all this stuff is fake and it's a game, right?

Soleran
02-23-2011, 07:04 PM
Lets say someone works his ass off his whole life to save for retirement( lets say he saves up $1,000,000) He spends countless amounts of "time"working overtime ,extra hours just so he can have a comfortable life.

Now lets say someone works just to get by in life, doesnt save any money for retirement, works as little as possible, didnt feel he needed to work hard and now its time to retire and the government steps in and decides to give him $950,000 for his retirement to help him out cause he doesnt have much money.
.

I see so getting 1 or 2 epics(which you also have access to) now cheapens your character by virtue of that. That's interesting to read, looks like you better pick up a few items then too so you can stay ahead of the curve.

grodon9999
02-23-2011, 07:08 PM
However, I do understand the problem OP: Long term, this is terrible for the game. When you give away near top-tier gear like this, you remove any motivation to stay with the game once you do have said gear. Why run any epics anymore. And if you don't run epics, then exactly what do you run?



Most players don't play the game for the same reason as power gamers.

Return_To_Forever
02-23-2011, 07:09 PM
Lets say someone works his ass off his whole life to save for retirement( lets say he saves up $1,000,000) He spends countless amounts of "time"working overtime ,extra hours just so he can have a comfortable life.

Now lets say someone works just to get by in life, doesnt save any money for retirement, works as little as possible, didnt feel he needed to work hard and now its time to retire and the government steps in and decides to give him $950,000 for his retirement to help him out cause he doesnt have much money.

So how do you think the guy who worked his ass off for what he got should feel about the guy who got it handed to him. It doesnt effect the guy who saved a million bucks, he still has his money but really who can blame him for being upset.

Maybe he should have not bothered working hard and put in the time for his money and just waited for his handout as well.

What giving these items out so easily does is make the newer players say bah why bother running epic quests to get good gear, i can just wait till the next event comes out to gear my toon.

And to those who took the time and put in the work to get good items they now think why bother i can just wait till events come out to get stuff just slightly less valuable then the items that require time and effort.

When things are giving out too easily in this game or real life it makes ppl put out less effort and time when they know there is a handout waiting for them.

And thats what we all need are ppl who dont want to work for what they get.
Cant wait to live in a society where ppl arent expected to work for what they get and everyone gets the same as the next person no matter how hard they work or how much time they put into life.

While its nice that turbine is running this event i just think they went a little overboard on the items.


The big problem with all this, too much too easy talk, is that if you put in the work for this stuff you have a chance at getting some of it, and most likely you will end up with some stuff, but people who get say 3+ fully upgraded items are not the "too easy" folks you are implying they are. They are people who are putting in the time, they are figuring out better faster ways, they are working with others as a team.

The people whom do not play like this maybe not fully to that degree, will get something, and there is nothing at all wrong with that. And as long as that gap remains, it isn't too easy.

There is far more wrong with the uncertainty of the other epic gear one might want, even if he/she puts in the time. As per your example, Lets say someone works his ass off his whole life to save for retirement( lets say he saves up $1,000,000) He spends countless amounts of "time"working overtime ,extra hours just so he can have a comfortable life BUT just doesn't get lucky enough to get it, so maybe he will be able to pawn everything he has worked for to possibly maybe win a bidding war against someone else in the same or maybe worse position.

Just saying.

leglisse
02-23-2011, 07:18 PM
Try leveling a TR while pugging the whole time and tell me if you still think epics are the 'hardest thing to do in the game' ;)

Imo pugging while lvling a tr is like adding 5 difficulty lvls to dungeon

SynalonEtuul
02-23-2011, 07:23 PM
This is silly. The event is super fun, getting cool items for it is super fun, come on guys, what are you even complaining about at this point.

Anthios888
02-23-2011, 07:27 PM
Most players don't play the game for the same reason as power gamers.

http://www.adamwarrock.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/lolcat_what.jpg

leglisse
02-23-2011, 08:10 PM
Lets say someone works his ass off his whole life to save for retirement( lets say he saves up $1,000,000) He spends countless amounts of "time"working overtime ,extra hours just so he can have a comfortable life.

Now lets say someone works just to get by in life, doesnt save any money for retirement, works as little as possible, didnt feel he needed to work hard and now its time to retire and the government steps in and decides to give him $950,000 for his retirement to help him out cause he doesnt have much money.

So how do you think the guy who worked his ass off for what he got should feel about the guy who got it handed to him. It doesnt effect the guy who saved a million bucks, he still has his money but really who can blame him for being upset.

Maybe he should have not bothered working hard and put in the time for his money and just waited for his handout as well.

What giving these items out so easily does is make the newer players say bah why bother running epic quests to get good gear, i can just wait till the next event comes out to gear my toon.

And to those who took the time and put in the work to get good items they now think why bother i can just wait till events come out to get stuff just slightly less valuable then the items that require time and effort.

When things are giving out too easily in this game or real life it makes ppl put out less effort and time when they know there is a handout waiting for them.

And thats what we all need are ppl who dont want to work for what they get.
Cant wait to live in a society where ppl arent expected to work for what they get and everyone gets the same as the next person no matter how hard they work or how much time they put into life.

While its nice that turbine is running this event i just think they went a little overboard on the items.

The problem i see is that grinding items shouldnt be "work" instead should be fun!. If u decide u spended a lot of time "working" better play somehting else that really entertains you. So if we do the equation as i say now would be like:
"Hey there is a limited time nice sword for my next toon, to bad i would have loved to run epics with it"

Chai
02-23-2011, 08:24 PM
your replacing our gear we grinded for hundreds of hours with gear that can be received in as little as 3 hours. that is the problem here, not the fact that it is no longer on top.

de-valueing our playtime just sucks.

In most MMOs, that gear you grinded out for 100s of hours gets deleted as soon as the new expansion comes out and the slot is replaced.

There is no de-valueing here. You had gear for possibly 18 months before this stuff came out and it was used for a long time before the new items hit the market. If this was another MMO, those new items would be MUCH BETTER than the old items you took eons to farm, and not slightly less in quality.

Dont ever get into another MMO if this is what we call de-valueing.

crschoen
02-23-2011, 08:30 PM
Lets say someone works his ass off his whole life to save for retirement( lets say he saves up $1,000,000) He spends countless amounts of "time"working overtime ,extra hours just so he can have a comfortable life.

Now lets say someone works just to get by in life, doesnt save any money for retirement, works as little as possible, didnt feel he needed to work hard and now its time to retire and the government steps in and decides to give him $950,000 for his retirement to help him out cause he doesnt have much money.

So how do you think the guy who worked his ass off for what he got should feel about the guy who got it handed to him. It doesnt effect the guy who saved a million bucks, he still has his money but really who can blame him for being upset.

Maybe he should have not bothered working hard and put in the time for his money and just waited for his handout as well.

What giving these items out so easily does is make the newer players say bah why bother running epic quests to get good gear, i can just wait till the next event comes out to gear my toon.

And to those who took the time and put in the work to get good items they now think why bother i can just wait till events come out to get stuff just slightly less valuable then the items that require time and effort.

When things are giving out too easily in this game or real life it makes ppl put out less effort and time when they know there is a handout waiting for them.

And thats what we all need are ppl who dont want to work for what they get.
Cant wait to live in a society where ppl arent expected to work for what they get and everyone gets the same as the next person no matter how hard they work or how much time they put into life.

While its nice that turbine is running this event i just think they went a little overboard on the items.

So basically you think this event is like the Grasshopper and the Ant fable? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ant_and_the_Grasshopper)

I disagree. I think a better analogy is that you are the guy who takes a trip to Vegas twice a year, blows $500 on slot machines each trip, and revels in the memory of winning $1,000 one time on a lucky spin. Then you get mad because some first-timer walks up to the slot machine next to you, puts in a $20 bill, and hits three 7's and scores a $10,000 jackpot.

My advice is: relax. If you're getting that worked up over it, you probably should be doing something else besides going to Vegas. The point is to have fun.

Chai
02-23-2011, 08:32 PM
Look, the thread is pointless, it's not going to change anything for one simple reason: The powers that be know you, the dedicated power gamer, won't quit over this, but the less dedicated players do quit because they can't have the shiny stuff without working for it for half a year to a year.

The fact is that even among long time players, only a fraction got into epics, for the rest it was 'too hard', whether by skill or effort involved, they simply didn't go for it. These type of events appease those customers and make them feel like they're on par with the elite.



The reality of the situation sinks in. How many players typed up rants about the event about how Turbine sucks, and their next action was to log into the game and play?

Epics being too hard is laughable. Most dont get into it because they see no need to have most of their options they built for cut off, and have to farm for months to get a few items that only accomplishes making the same epic grind slightly easier the next time around.

Too hard....lawl. Mind numbing repetition =/= difficult. DDO is an older crowd when you compare average player age. Most of us have lives, heh.

protokon
02-23-2011, 08:40 PM
So basically you think this event is like the Grasshopper and the Ant fable? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ant_and_the_Grasshopper)

I disagree. I think a better analogy is that you are the guy who takes a trip to Vegas twice a year, blows $500 on slot machines each trip, and revels in the memory of winning $1,000 one time on a lucky spin. Then you get mad because some first-timer walks up to the slot machine next to you, puts in a $20 bill, and hits three 7's and scores a $10,000 jackpot.

My advice is: relax. If you're getting that worked up over it, you probably should be doing something else besides going to Vegas. The point is to have fun.

that's a horrible example.

It's more like you are the guy who goes to a casino on a daily basis, blows 20 bucks (small amount) on a daily basis and finally win after doing it several hundred times, only to have the casino have a 'special week' event where in celebration of 5 years, they let everyone who comes in and spends 20 dollars win - automatically.

epic items have a lottery loot mechanic that involves mindless scroll farming and complete luck to get your loot.

they just came in and said, 'here kill x amount of [non-epic] mobs and get your loot automatically'.

I would much prefer to see this kind of mechanic instituted in the current epic content, make dungeon token fragments an extremely high drop rate, and let us buy scrolls with dungeon tokens.

Coldest
02-23-2011, 09:36 PM
In most MMOs, that gear you grinded out for 100s of hours gets deleted as soon as the new expansion comes out and the slot is replaced.

There is no de-valueing here. You had gear for possibly 18 months before this stuff came out and it was used for a long time before the new items hit the market. If this was another MMO, those new items would be MUCH BETTER than the old items you took eons to farm, and not slightly less in quality.

Dont ever get into another MMO if this is what we call de-valueing.

Yep. I went through the explosion of vorpals, banishers, etc. but I still had my WoP rapiers. Then they nerfed the WoPs. I went through it with GS and then epics. The people complaining now are probably a newer crop of power gamers that haven't been around long enough to see the pattern.

Hell, I won't be surprised if 6-18 mos after I finish my main off, to see them have a birthday celebration and put in the completionist feat in for everyone. LOL. Godmode, I said it here first.

QuantumFX
02-23-2011, 09:40 PM
If the loot wasn't epic, would you run the event?

This.

The event needs to have some incentive for all players to run it. This includes adding some stuff that even power gamers don’t have.

Coldest
02-23-2011, 09:40 PM
that's a horrible example.

It's more like you are the guy who goes to a casino on a daily basis, blows 20 bucks (small amount) on a daily basis and finally win after doing it several hundred times, only to have the casino have a 'special week' event where in celebration of 5 years, they let everyone who comes in and spends 20 dollars win - automatically.


Exactly. This is a horrible example. Now if the Casino locked out anyone who had won after spending 100s of hours gambling, so that ONLY those who were new or didnt play much could win, that would bite. But, that's not what's happning here. Everyone gets to win. It's a flipping birthday celebration.

protokon
02-23-2011, 09:54 PM
Exactly. This is a horrible example. Now if the Casino locked out anyone who had won after spending 100s of hours gambling, so that ONLY those who were new or didnt play much could win, that would bite. But, that's not what's happning here. Everyone gets to win. It's a flipping birthday celebration.

I understand the point your trying to make, but you have to realize-

-players building epic items currently value these items based on the difficulty and time invested into getting them.

Epic items are nothing more than pixels on the screen. We build value to them through grinding to get them. While it is very nice of them to take much of the grind away, by doing so it essentially de-values what we have worked for so far.

As new shinies are released, so is a grind to get them.

someone who has never stepped foot into an epic quest or raid, can now obtain a +7 strength item without having to do anything more than kill some non-epic trash mobs for a few hours?

donfilibuster
02-23-2011, 10:00 PM
To make an Epic item in these events requires Epic tokens, which only come from Epic Dungeons, ergo the Epic work has been done.


You still need to have epic tokens to make use of the epic slots, which are a big part of the complain that they are being handed out for cheap.



EDIT: I think implementing 1 epic dungeon token to the cost of creating the level 20 versions at the minimum (and probably a token for each upgrade beyond that) would make it a little bit more acceptable to the power gamers.

It was that way in mabar and people that don't play epic complained they would be locked out.
In turn the recipes now require one or two greater trinkets and many people is not adding it in their math.
(takes a lot more shards than at first look)


Mabar event items were not nearly as powerful as some of these items. and these items don't require an epic token for this event.

And mabar was different in that you just had to farm the graveyard and only get a couple scales from the dragon.
Thus the epic version had to have some extra cost, which was the epic token.
This event is better in that you have to run the cove and won't matter if you don't spend the day in the island.
The epic token not required now but the greater trinkets on the recipes makes you need more shards than it seems at first look.


I agree just the base level 20 Cavalry Plate is better then the Epic Fullplate of the Ringleader, I think the Ringleader plate needs a jump not the other way around.

Some epic items were 'upgraded' in a recent update, wouldn't this trend continue?
With so much devalued epic items i don't see why we can't just ask them to keep improving them rather than try to nerf the event.

Thar
02-23-2011, 10:09 PM
Considering all the time I've wasted in epic quests only to get skunked, I don't care.

i agree totally, the epic drop rates are a waste of time and epic failure.

DnD3
02-23-2011, 10:22 PM
Because it's SO much harder to mind-numbingly heavy-pick the cr@p out of stunned/held mobs in a quest I've done 100 times already and obviously presents little to no challenge once I've figured out all the meta-gamey tricks?

I do get your point though but I disagree with this being bad for the game. It gives people a "taste" of the better gear, it's that initial hit off the crackpipe that gets them hooked into the grinding wheel that is the pursuit of epic gear.

Heh, its like the only thing about Epic thats actually is epic is the monsters life points and the grind, remember the first time i did a epic and was so dissapointed the way people beated them and thought: so this is it? skill.. pfft more like patience and gear =/

second thought was: Did the developers REALLY expect us to fight these things the normal way? not only would it take (more)ages to complete but it would be so damn mindnumbling boring!

Ungood
02-24-2011, 01:04 AM
Hey, if any of you "power gamers" decided to rage quit because other players are getting decent gear and having fun during the process, can I have your stuff?

Ungood
02-24-2011, 01:10 AM
i agree totally, the epic drop rates are a waste of time and epic failure.

I am in no way trying to be rude when I say this, but, that is all Epic is. A means to keep players who refuse to TR occupied.

SteeK
02-24-2011, 04:07 AM
Lets say someone works his ass off his whole life to save for retirement( lets say he saves up $1,000,000) He spends countless amounts of "time"working overtime ,extra hours just so he can have a comfortable life.

Now lets say someone works just to get by in life, doesnt save any money for retirement, works as little as possible, didnt feel he needed to work hard and now its time to retire and the government steps in and decides to give him $950,000 for his retirement to help him out cause he doesnt have much money.

Welcome to Earth! We are the humans, and this is our society.

Cyr
02-24-2011, 01:12 PM
I'll give this: The event is fun, but instead of giving away epic items, they should have given away upgrades for existing epic items, to make them epic-er.

Perhaps the simpliest yet correct statement in the thread.

To expand on this (as it is very likely that Turbine will make more of these types of events and we can influence future decisions)...

The solution seems very simple to me. New augment crystals being the epic rewards from new events instead of epic base items. This makes it so each festival has it's own unique little rewards that do not infringe upon normal quests. Examples follow...

Mabar:

Vamprism - Red Slot: This weapon gains the vamprism quality. If this augment is applied to a non-weapon it applies to the weapon you wield in your main hand.
Shroud of Undeath Blue Slot: Whenever you are hit in melee combat a cause light wounds is cast on you ML 20. This effect does not stack from multiple sources.
Engulfed in Shadows - Yellow Slot: If the item has dusk it is upgraded to improved dusk. Otherwise it gains dusk. Improved dusk grants a 50% concealment miss chance.
Mantle of the Lich Green Slot: You gain the effects of a lich's mantle making you immune to spells below level 5.

Risia:

Icy Burst - Red Slot
Icy Blast - Red Slot: This can only be applied to a weapon that has icy burst.
Ice Guard - Yellow Slot
Freezing Ice Guard - Violet Slot
Essence of Winter - Blue Slot: +1 Wis. This bonus is an elemental bonus and stacks with all other bonuses except other elemental bonuses.

Smuggler's Rest:

Bloodthirsty - Red Slot: This property adds bleed.
Sea Legs - Colorless Slot: Underwater action, swim +15, and balance +15.
Rogue's Luck -Yellow Slot: You gain evasion.
Pillage - Colorless Slot: Chests you open are +1 level.
Rule Breaker- Colorless Slot: This item is ML 1. Note like all augments an item that loses it's augment reverts back to it's previous state.
Laws are for the weak - Colorles Slot: This item is BtA. Note like all augments an item that loses it's augment reverts back to it's previous state.
Quick on your Feet - Blue Slot: +1 dodge bonus to AC. +2 dodge bonus to reflex save.

Fernia

Same idea as Risia except ice themed
Essence of Flame - Red Slot: +1 Str Elemental Bonus.

Spring Festival (whatever plane that corresponds in eberron I forget)

same idea as Risia except lighning themed
Essence of Electicity - Colorless: +1 Dex elemental bonus.