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Quarterling
02-21-2011, 09:42 PM
My Wizard told me he wants to be able to learn it. Oh the possibilities! But how would Turbine keep it from being overpowered? :D

Uska
02-21-2011, 09:48 PM
by not adding it

Quarterling
02-21-2011, 09:52 PM
by not adding it

Ah, sorry that your imagination is not working as well as it used to then. =/

A_Grate_Speller
02-21-2011, 09:52 PM
I think it would be cool if you could have a set list to a "Limited Wish" spell. Make it cost a lot of sp, or lower the max sp of a toon if it is known (idk really). But I would see this as having a little submenu pop up, much like teleport, and you choose our effect, whatever it would be.

I know it isn't wish per say, but it would be something in that general direction...

Antheal
02-21-2011, 10:00 PM
"Wish" dialogue box pops up, the message you send gets PM'd to a dev/mod.

Then then make you wish you'd never said anything...

Seikojin
02-21-2011, 10:02 PM
In 3.5 wish and limited wish are very limited (irony), so it could be easilly done in a video game. You cast, it has a menu with options. They just don't have saves for the death effects. I think some bosses would be immune though.

jcTharin
02-21-2011, 10:05 PM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wish.htm

i see two things from the wish spell that could work in ddo. the ability to duplicate spells and the Undo misfortune part.

i say leave the duplicate spells part as is.

i think that the undo misfortune part would need to be a buff of some kind. when you fail a save you get a second shot at it. its sounds kinda meh though.

the wish spell would need a large cost to keep it from being to powerful. ether a very expensive component that makes it far more effective to use scrolls or some other kind of penalty. xp cost would not work.

maybe have it require a component that has a max stack of something like 5 and it's exclusive so you can't stock up. that would make it so that you can cast wish 5 times per quest/quest chain at max.

Quarterling
02-21-2011, 10:05 PM
3.5 had "safe" limits on what you could "wish" for. You could try to ask for something more powerful, but there would be a good chance of backfire if you even went the slightest out of bounds. Basically, to make it fair, there would only be a set amount of things that all within the bounds.

The spell (along with the Cleric's "Miracle") also took a lot of experience to cast. Nothing in DDO costs experience, so perhaps it would need to have a material component that should take some effort to obtain. For example, Epic Tokens, but I am just going out on a limb here...

A_Grate_Speller
02-21-2011, 10:07 PM
"Wish" dialogue box pops up, the message you send gets PM'd to a dev/mod.

Then then make you wish you'd never said anything...

HAHA Nice (+1)! I would apply for a job at Turbine if it came to that ;)

"Oh? You want Velah dead? *poof! Velah dies and her mate and 3 children fly into the quest area*"

"Oh? You want trillions of plat? *DING, DING, DING, DING, DING, DING! As the party is crushed by trillions of coins*"

"Oh? You wish the devs made better content? *Message pops up, "Your account has just been terminated."*"

Oh the fun :)

PopeJual
02-21-2011, 10:08 PM
I figure Wish could be coded in the same way that Shapechange/Polymorph could be coded.

Give players a pre-set list of options to choose from. Some of the options could be powerful, some could be convenient and at least one should be a rain of Tasty Hams.

jcTharin
02-21-2011, 10:09 PM
I think it would be cool if you could have a set list to a "Limited Wish" spell. Make it cost a lot of sp, or lower the max sp of a toon if it is known (idk really). But I would see this as having a little submenu pop up, much like teleport, and you choose our effect, whatever it would be.

I know it isn't wish per say, but it would be something in that general direction...

limited wish would probaly be a lot better in the game than wish. less of a chance of it being overpowered.

it would still need some steep costs and limitations like i said with the wish spell.

FlyingTurtle
02-21-2011, 11:13 PM
Should remember that d20 wish is balanced by this:



XP Cost

The minimum XP cost for casting wish is 5,000 XP. When a wish duplicates a spell that has an XP cost, you must pay 5,000 XP or that cost, whichever is more. When a wish creates or improves a magic item, you must pay twice the normal XP cost for crafting or improving the item, plus an additional 5,000 XP.


Which is utterly meaningless in a universe full of capped toons constantly running raids that would regenerate many times over that amount of XP per completion.

NaturalHazard
02-21-2011, 11:14 PM
I figure Wish could be coded in the same way that Shapechange/Polymorph could be coded.

Give players a pre-set list of options to choose from. Some of the options could be powerful, some could be convenient and at least one should be a rain of Tasty Hams.

can we code in wish for large scales and red scales in? :D

Quarterling
02-21-2011, 11:19 PM
Should remember that d20 wish is balanced by this:



Which is utterly meaningless in a universe full of capped toons constantly running raids that would regenerate many times over that amount of XP per completion.

Very little stays absolute true to original 3.5 rules, so I wouldn't expect the cost to be the same (it probably wouldn't even cost experience points).

donfilibuster
02-21-2011, 11:24 PM
If we gonna have wish to mimic spells we should also have the shadow magic spells.
There's plenty of magic lines neglected in ddo.

FlyingTurtle
02-21-2011, 11:28 PM
(it probably wouldn't even cost experience points).

It could cost TP :D

Scraap
02-22-2011, 01:40 AM
DM fun with wish...

The cleric goes down, the wiz wishes he was raised. DM flips a coin on whether it's a djinn or an efreet that grants it. Djinn, he's raised from the dead. Efreet, he's raised from the dead as a cr(his level) arcane skeleton and can't be raised until that is destroyed.

At this point, the arcane is out of mana, but they got lucky and the cleric is back up. Well, they could really use a firewall right about now, so the cleric wishes for one. <insert evil laugh here, "granted"> and out pops a maximized, empowered 12% crit firewall. On the wrong team.

donfilibuster
02-22-2011, 02:13 AM
At this point, the arcane is out of mana, but they got lucky and the cleric is back up. Well, they could really use a firewall right about now, so the cleric wishes for one. <insert evil laugh here, "granted"> and out pops a maximized, empowered 12% crit firewall. On the wrong team.

Good news is cleric can only pray for miracle.
Bad news is you'd wish to have wish to wish you just heard the evil laugh if you upset your deity.

bigolbear
02-22-2011, 03:16 AM
A simple suggestion for the DDO wish and limited wish spells.

limited wish: lvl 7 arcane
COST: small soul gem. (many wizards in d&d use some one elses XP to fuel their spells)

Popup with the following options:
1. Get some loot: get a random nice peice of loot (again temporary just like the half orc dragon mark)
2. Summon a repair shrine.
cast one of a selection of spells lvl 4 or less - via a popup. should be a nice selection of non wizard spells such as barkskin, deathward, fom, divine power, remove poison etc. The spell is cast at the wizards caster lvl.

WISH: lvl 9 arcane
Cost: average soul gem.

Popup with the folowing options
1. get some loot: beter loot than limited wish but again temporary.
2. Summon repair shrine
3. Summon Djin of the cake - for perama + 1 tomes.
4. Get a tome: pick your stat and get a +4 Temporary tome (sits in your inventory - unbound but drops on leaving adventure)
5. cast raise dead
6. cast mass DW.
7. Disspell the entire party completely, removing all spells (lvl 9 or less)/all poisons/all diseases.

Wish and limited wish should also have a 10% chance of failure, failure uses the soul gem but insead of the desired result summons an agressive djin (red named and quite deadly)

MIRACLE: lvl 9 divine
Cost: 10 min cooldown.

popup with the folowing options
1. create a holy weapon - as per paladin holy sword spell.
2. Summon aid: depending on faith - summons. Sovereign host: ghale, silver flame: eladrin, vulkoor: scorrow, undying court: mummy (always friendly doesnt break charm), lord of bades: WF fighter.
3. banish any non orange/red/purple named evil outsider - save 10+ wis mod + 20 sacred.
4. divine blesing (casts prayer + recitation + holy aura CL 30)
5. Disspell the entire party completely, removing all spells (lvl 9 or less)/all poisons/all diseases.

Purposefully leaving out the cast a wizard spell because if clerics get access to haste and fire wall i think it will break things - also teleport because miracles souldn't be about getting around town easier.

Scraap
02-22-2011, 03:27 AM
Good news is cleric can only pray for miracle.
Bad news is you'd wish to have wish to wish you just heard the evil laugh if you upset your deity.

Hrm. Point.

The setting currently presented in DDO-Ebberron does present unique issues with the lack of hyper-specified godly domains (ie: "Well, that's really not my forte, but since it's you, lets give it a try... *oops*") on top of the lack of personalized deities (ie: "Well, I *could* grant you that, but this would be more of a learning experience..." *twist*), that were a better limiter on the clerical equivalent than any particular xp/gp penalty built into the core.

justhavinfun
02-22-2011, 04:43 AM
If I remember correctly the wish spell much like the permancy spell took alot out of the caster. The caster would be unable to do anything for 1d10 hrs upon completion of the spell. Also the spell came with a pemanent loss of 1 point of con every time it was cast. The con loss was unable to be repaired by anything less than another wish thereby limiting the number of wishes any single caster could cast in his life time.

I also remember spending weeks trying to get the wording right so that nothing bad would happen only to have the DM twist the wording against me. Remember nothing good comes without a price.

Zuldar
02-22-2011, 09:09 AM
Purposefully leaving out the cast a wizard spell because if clerics get access to haste and fire wall i think it will break things - also teleport because miracles souldn't be about getting around town easier.

I wouldn't worry about that too much, clerics don't get the enhancements to improve firewall so are probably better off casting blade barrier if they need damage, and shroud haste clickies aren't exactly hard to get.

SynalonEtuul
02-22-2011, 09:30 AM
I don't think it should cost extra mana or anything, as this would make it feel more like some special ability than an actual level 9 spell. Just have it cost 50 sp, like every other level 9 spell. Obviously x.p. debt is unworkable as well, so I like the suggestion of making it have some rare material component, like soul gems of powerful types of monster. Another limiting factor could be a very long casting time, as I never really saw wish as an in-combat spell, though of course opinions on this may differ; if this suggestion were taken up they could even develop a new spellcasting animation for it! Finally, there's also the cooldown, which I think should probably be very long (longer than summon monster spells).

What's more important than all of that is of course what the spell would actually do! I think raining tasty ham is a given, for one. I'm ambivalent towards resurrection, but feel ultimately that it should go in, being such a staple of the spell; any character can raise dead already, of course. I think summoning a temporary shrine would be a little too powerful. Other things are of course general stacking buffs for the party, or perhaps targeted, powerful debuffs on specific enemies that even raid bosses aren't immune to.

Soljargon
02-22-2011, 07:11 PM
My Wizard told me he wants to be able to learn it. Oh the possibilities! But how would Turbine keep it from being overpowered? :D

The Wish genie appears and it works the same as or similar to getting a birthday cake, thus limiting your options.

However to cast Wish you need ingredients worth 100,000 platinum per wish. Or alternatively, Wish requires an Astral Diamond as a material component. If that is still too cheap, make it 10 Astral Diamonds.

Or alternatively, Wish is a 10th level epic scroll (and thus can`t be scribed unless you are level 21) and its only found as an ultra rare loot item in epic quests and only in the end chest.

Quarterling
02-22-2011, 07:52 PM
The Wish genie appears and it works the same as or similar to getting a birthday cake, thus limiting your options.

However to cast Wish you need ingredients worth 100,000 platinum per wish. Or alternatively, Wish requires an Astral Diamond as a material component. If that is still too cheap, make it 10 Astral Diamonds.

Or alternatively, Wish is a 10th level epic scroll (and thus can`t be scribed unless you are level 21) and its only found as an ultra rare loot item in epic quests and only in the end chest.

It would make more sense if Wish had something like a 100,000 plat-per-cast. The plat cost may be really low in 3.5, but the gp and plat here in DDO is super-inflated to the point where many people have hit their plat cap. Also, Wish is actually a 9th level spell, not 10th level. And actually for epic spells, you need to take the epic spell feat BEFORE you can actually take any epic spells, so you would really need to be level 22 as opposed to 21.

noinfo
02-22-2011, 07:53 PM
Cost wise and ballance either consider Silver Flame pots side effect or death penalty effect for consideration. I would probably go with the death penalty as it replaced xp cost for death.