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View Full Version : auto airship buffs upon entering quests



chodelord
02-21-2011, 09:29 AM
ship buffs should be granted to guild members upon entering any quest zone, still removed on death

there is no reason to require running back to the ship, going to each shrine and activating

it doesn't add anything to the game other than an annoying, trivial time sink

if the design intention is for the buffs to burn down while the group forms then just grant 30 min versions of the buffs upon entering and 1 hour versions if you slog to the shrine/crew member and activate it

non members who are invited should still be required to go to each shrine individually

stainer
02-21-2011, 09:32 AM
I want the game to auto uninstall if you are on a ship when the rest of the party enters a quest.

Lithic
02-21-2011, 09:37 AM
I want the game to auto uninstall if you are on a ship when the rest of the party enters a quest.

Now THIS is a suggestion i could get behind!

Lerincho
02-21-2011, 09:37 AM
/not signed


I will not join the laziness movement presented here. Does not take all that long to get on the ship and get the necessary buffs if you are that addicted to them. Remember this game existed with out them for 4 years, it is possible to do something in this game without them. Be thankful Turbine even provided them in the first place.

Kaeldur
02-21-2011, 09:39 AM
Part of the idea of the ship was to get guild people to run into each other more often (according to Fernando Paiz - executive producer [or something like that] of DDO).

Ship buffs are already a crutch as is, if you want them just take 3 more minutes and pick them up. If you don't want them just go and do the quest, you don't need them (or rather shouldn't need them). I certainly don't even bother with ship buffs at the moment, I only use my ship for quick movement around places. What you're asking for is sort of like an easy button for an easy button.

/notsigned

Failedlegend
02-21-2011, 09:41 AM
delete me please

cpito
02-21-2011, 09:41 AM
laziness factor 10

no thank you.

Failedlegend
02-21-2011, 09:45 AM
/not signed


I will not join the laziness movement presented here. Does not take all that long to get on the ship and get the necessary buffs if you are that addicted to them. Remember this game existed with out them for 4 years, it is possible to do something in this game without them. Be thankful Turbine even provided them in the first place.


Part of the idea of the ship was to get guild people to run into each other more often (according to Fernando Paiz - executive producer [or something like that] of DDO).

Ship buffs are already a crutch as is, if you want them just take 3 more minutes and pick them up. If you don't want them just go and do the quest, you don't need them (or rather shouldn't need them). I certainly don't even bother with ship buffs at the moment, I only use my ship for quick movement around places. What you're asking for is sort of like an easy button for an easy button.

/notsigned


laziness factor 10

no thank you.

/Signed

It has nothing to do with laziness (IMHO..maybe the OP is just lazy i dunno) the addition of the ship buffs has just become another thing that slows down getting the quest started so if buffs were auto-added this would eliminate that factor so even if YOU don't care about the buffs alot of people do so it's going to slow YOUR gaming/questing down, thus yes this does effect YOU.

Kaeldur
02-21-2011, 09:47 AM
/Signed

It has nothing to do with laziness the addition of the ship buffs has just become another thing that slows down getting the quest started so if buffs were auto-added this would eliminate that factor so even if YOU don't care about the buffs alot of people do so it's going to slow YOUR gaming/questing down, thus yes this does effect YOU.

Like I (and Lerincho) said:

You shouldn't need ship buffs. If you do need them you probably won't be in groups with people who don't care about them, therefore your running to get ship buffs won't slow those people down.

What you guys are asking for is sort of like say you enter some quest that is just plain bs (like tons that exist) and you can obviously complete it with no difficulty. So should DDO just say "hey, here, grab the chest and finish out, you're gonna beat the quest anyway so lets just cut the bs and get this over with"?

chodelord
02-21-2011, 09:48 AM
it isn't about laziness it is about good game design

you want to minimize un-fun maintenance while maximizing fun of you know playing

running around a ship from shrine to shrine like booths at a trade show is NOT FUN
running from where you are, to the nearest terminal, then from the terminal to the quest entrance is NOT FUN

and as the other poster said even if you don't care other people will and you are stuck waiting for them

Failedlegend
02-21-2011, 09:51 AM
Like I (and Lerincho) said:

You shouldn't need ship buffs. If you do need them you probably won't be in groups with people who don't care about them, therefore your running to get ship buffs won't slow those people down.

What you guys are asking for is sort of like say you enter some quest that is just plain bs (like tons that exist) and you can obviously complete it with no difficulty. So should DDO just say "hey, here, grab the chest and finish out, you're gonna beat the quest anyway so lets just cut the bs and get over with this".

um in what world do you live in that you get perfect pugs every time...because I wanna go there

Oh and FYI I don't really care about ship buffs either way (although the +5%xp is nice) but usually get them if the rest of the pug is.

Lorien_the_First_One
02-21-2011, 09:51 AM
/not signed
for the OPs idea. He can say it as much as he wants, it strikes me as lazy. The fact he still wants those pugs who party with him to run around shoots down his idea that it is anything but elitist/lazy.

Ship buffs however should not tick in public (much like store xp pots). That would solve the grouping issue completely as you could buff up front and wait at the quest door.

Lerincho
02-21-2011, 09:52 AM
running around a ship from shrine to shrine like booths at a trade show is NOT FUN Is not a required activity. You choose to get ship buffs

and as the other poster said even if you don't care other people will and you are stuck waiting for them

90% of the time if you are waiting on someone to get ship buffs, you are getting ship buffs yourself, therefore you are not waiting. This game is already too blasted easy, why provided a lazy button along with the easy button?

shortdevils
02-21-2011, 09:56 AM
I know, there is so much travel time in this instanced game...why do we even have to go trainers when we level or gain , you should have a seperate tab in the UI instead of these trainers. When i die i dont want to have to go all the way to the barkeep and buy some hp regeneration , the game should do it for me. After quest completion , why should i need to go back to the quest givers , a reward bar should just open for me right away. Infact i dont want to have to go to the bank ,Ah , mailbox or any vendors, they should be parts of the ui. You know what, lets not stop there. Lets turn the game into one town hub with a teleporter that takes to any quest we want. Yeah that should remove all the travel time.

Failedlegend
02-21-2011, 10:10 AM
I know, there is so much travel time in this instanced game...why do we even have to go trainers when we level or gain , you should have a seperate tab in the UI instead of these trainers. When i die i dont want to have to go all the way to the barkeep and buy some hp regeneration , the game should do it for me. After quest completion , why should i need to go back to the quest givers , a reward bar should just open for me right away. Infact i dont want to have to go to the bank ,Ah , mailbox or any vendors, they should be parts of the ui. You know what, lets not stop there. Lets turn the game into one town hub with a teleporter that takes to any quest we want. Yeah that should remove all the travel time.

Note: All of the above things are stuff you do when NOT in a group thats the difference

I'd be satisfied with this though VVVVV



Ship buffs however should not tick in public (much like store xp pots). That would solve the grouping issue completely as you could buff up front and wait at the quest door.

DrunkenBuddha
02-21-2011, 10:12 AM
I hate ship buffs. I cannot deny the utility of them, but I hate what they're doing to the game. Seriously? Are we really waiting on your ship buffs to do elite reaver? I think they promote complacency, laziness and have led to a deterioration in skill. I am not an excellent player, but I slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night and I've run with some great players. The ship buffs are becoming a crutch. No, I will not wait for your ship buffs for WW - Arlos awaits. And no, I don't care how big your airship is, there is no ship buff for +2 to pike in elite Reaver. The only time ship buffs should even remotively be considered required to complete a quest is to buff Coyle before elite at level. "Damn you COYLE!!! *thunk*"

stainer
02-21-2011, 10:16 AM
Seriously? Are we really waiting on your ship buffs to do elite reaver? I think they promote complacency, laziness and have led to a deterioration in skill.

If I have the star I guarantee you will not wait for someone to get ship buffs.

cpito
02-21-2011, 10:17 AM
You shouldn't be taking away the choice of boat buffs or not. Some people may appreciate the challenge of leveling a toon without them. Some people's play styles may be effected tho I am admittedly unsure of permadeath rules regarding ship buffs. Many people extend ship invites to newer people so you're waiting anyway and often running from shrine to shrine anyway making sure they get them all.

If they become automatic then how long before builds are listed as "must be member of lvl 70 guild"?

Which buffs take precedence? The remaining 20 minutes of a friends buffs you got on thier lvl 60 ship (for a 15 minute quest) or the 60 minutes of lvl 30 buffs you are "granted"?

We got by without them for 4 years. If your time is so precious, or your are fingers limited to a certain number of clicks in a day, skip the ship buffs. It might just make for more fun.

Samiusbot
02-21-2011, 10:23 AM
Leave every thing the same as it is right now, but start the buff count down timer when entering a dungeon.

I understand what it like to be the second/third guy in a group buffed and ready to go while waiting on people so you can get started. So you go and pick up pots and scrolls. Hit the Ah "real fast" and what not. And before you know it you have 30 mins left on the ship timers. But the quest you plan to run is about 40 mins with pugers...

And then you have to decide to go and rebuff burning more time or go as you are. After all you only really wanted the buffs for the end fight, right?

Paleus
02-21-2011, 10:25 AM
Ship buffs however should not tick in public

I would agree to this suggestion, but I would not agree to the OP suggestion.

Ship buffs are a time-sink that people need to learn how to budget properly if they insist on using them. I had the joy this weekend of putting together a Tempest Spine pug where a good number of people were sitting around doing nothing until the party filled. Then suddenly they start requesting ship buff invites. I politely (at first then less politely) said to the effect: You should have done that earlier, we're starting now (the LFM text had stated fast paced) and you're going to have to catch up if you aren't here. This led to a cleric bemoaning how he would not be able to survive the run in without ship buffs (can we say addicted much).

P.S. The cleric somehow managed to survive the run, how anyone got that arduous run done before ship buffs is just beyond me I guess. I suppose what this games needs is some kind of class that could cast energy resists and heal themselves to make it through or somehow manage to dodge aggro. He (quite naturally) died at a particular lever everyone had been warned about.

Failedlegend
02-21-2011, 10:26 AM
Leave every thing the same as it is right now, but start the buff count down timer when entering a dungeon.

I understand what it like to be the second/third guy in a group buffed and ready to go while waiting on people so you can get started. So you go and pick up pots and scrolls. Hit the Ah "real fast" and what not. And before you know it you have 30 mins left on the ship timers. But the quest you plan to run is about 40 mins with pugers...

And then you have to decide to go and rebuff burning more time or go as you are. After all you only really wanted the buffs for the end fight, right?

Again agreed that to be the superior solution especially since the only real awesome guild buff is the xp boost (im sure TRs really appreciate that one) and it only works until the end of the quest (I personally don't think that one should end)

fuzzy1guy
02-21-2011, 10:27 AM
/not signed


I will not join the laziness movement presented here. Does not take all that long to get on the ship and get the necessary buffs if you are that addicted to them. Remember this game existed with out them for 4 years, it is possible to do something in this game without them. Be thankful Turbine even provided them in the first place.

http://i51.tinypic.com/30x7ktg.jpg
lol. dude. serious. this attitude is just sick man. get help.




While the OP is a pretty lazy suggestion. There is alot of time wasted in this game doing esentially nothing. Hell it takes 5 area changes and 5 load screens to travel from place to place many days. To do a 15 minute quest. And 3 more to repair up and get ready for the next quest.

krud
02-21-2011, 10:27 AM
auto ship buffs?

meh, i'd rather have a /pike option. Hands free quest completions, so i can munch on potato chips and drink my beverage while I watch my toon play all by itself (and maybe even play with itself). All I need to do is loot my chest at the end of each quest.

Hafeal
02-21-2011, 10:43 AM
For a game that put a "Loot All" button in chests, what does the OPs suggestion do other than save time? How many times have we heard on the forums - if you don't like it, don't use it. I agree it is lazy - I rarely get the buffs anyway, although the greater fire resist was nice for an at level elite run in Taming the Flames the other night ... but I digress.

Meh, I don't care one way or the other about the suggestion. But, I will say, if they were to put it in, I would most likely use it as a time saver. I might actually make trips to the ship to get them when I don't now. Do I need it? No. Do I want it? Meh.

More importantly to me is that House P and House J favor buffs should have an "all buffs" button - what a PIA, seriously.

Seliana
02-21-2011, 10:44 AM
I'll agree that the auto granting of ship buffs on entering a quest is laziness incarnate and a giant easy button, but there is another side to this discussion not yet presented.

An automatic guild buffs system would be a nice implementation for party members that are too lazy to save their guild mate's SP bars on elemental resist buffs at the beginning of a quest. Its not a crutch to say I don't want to pass single-target fire electric and cold resist to 12 separate people and wait on a 6 second timer for each individual element for a grand total of 3.6 straight minutes of buffing. That's 3.6 full minutes of just waiting around that burns a total of 540 sp and is incredibly tedious at the start of Epic Von6. I don't care about the SP loss, I just want to not wait around all day getting started. Sure you can delegate some elements to other players and split up the monotony but at the same time the lack of aoe-buff type spells starts to make this kind of auto-guild buffs system sound like a good idea to me. You can attempt to ask those in the raid to all get their ship buffs while its forming but there's always some that cant be bothered, afk, or who wont tell you if they did it or not leaving you guessing.

If the single target buffs in game had an aoe option I would be against this kind of a concept, but its clearly not going to happen so I would rather take the auto-buffs instead of nothing. I don't care if its considered an easy button as long as it makes raiding less tedious.

Nospheratus
02-21-2011, 10:45 AM
I hate ship buffs. I cannot deny the utility of them, but I hate what they're doing to the game. Seriously? Are we really waiting on your ship buffs to do elite reaver? I think they promote complacency, laziness and have led to a deterioration in skill. I am not an excellent player, but I slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night and I've run with some great players. The ship buffs are becoming a crutch. No, I will not wait for your ship buffs for WW - Arlos awaits. And no, I don't care how big your airship is, there is no ship buff for +2 to pike in elite Reaver. The only time ship buffs should even remotively be considered required to complete a quest is to buff Coyle before elite at level. "Damn you COYLE!!! *thunk*"
This!

There's another thing that ship buffs came to destroy, the buff bar!!!

Schmoe
02-21-2011, 10:47 AM
I would support removing ship buffs entirely before I would support this suggestion.

flynnjsw
02-21-2011, 10:48 AM
it isn't about laziness it is about good game design



Uhhh no. If you require a game by design to do the work for you, then there is an issue.

Hafeal
02-21-2011, 10:50 AM
Uhhh no. If you require a game by design to do the work for you, then there is an issue.

Ah, so you never use that "Loot All" button. Jolly for you! :p

flynnjsw
02-21-2011, 10:54 AM
Ah, so you never use that "Loot All" button. Jolly for you! :p

Waiting 2 seconds for someone to loot a chest piece by piece as opposed to the 5 minutes or so that some people "requiring" ship buffs take is a bit different. Ship buffs are a crutch as it is, why would you want to add a crutch on top of a crutch?

Lerincho
02-21-2011, 10:57 AM
An automatic guild buffs system would be a nice implementation for party members that are too lazy to save their guild mate's SP bars on elemental resist buffs at the beginning of a quest.

If they are too lazy they do not deserve the buffs in the first place. Caster save the SP and play on. Lazy guildy, can buy pots if they really want it, or a hireling with the resistances.

Lerincho
02-21-2011, 10:57 AM
Ah, so you never use that "Loot All" button. Jolly for you! :p

there's a loot all button? :eek:

bobbryan2
02-21-2011, 10:58 AM
Actually clicking on each individual ship buff isn't exactly fun. There should be a buff me button on the ship... and you get them all. Auto on entering quest.... eh, I'd enjoy it... ubt.

krud
02-21-2011, 11:01 AM
What's the point of an airship with all the frilly graphics then? They spent the time to do it up like that for a reason.

They should instead make an airship teleporter available at a some higher guild level. It can teleport you to the ship from anywhere on the map (public instances only). "Beam me up, Scotty". Convenient, yet keeps the immersion, and gives another thing to strive for.

stainer
02-21-2011, 11:01 AM
Actually clicking on each individual ship buff isn't exactly fun. There should be a buff me button on the ship... and you get them all. Auto on entering quest.... eh, I'd enjoy it... ubt.

If they did this and included the training dummy I would no longer be able to ninja the training dummy charge from the lvl 5 monk that has been beating on it for 4 mins. Why do you want to steal stainer's fun?

Lerincho
02-21-2011, 11:01 AM
Personally I would like ship buffs completely removed, as I get tired moreso of hearing "they moved the shrine again" comments, than of the "heading to ship". Yes I have used ship buffs, am I in need of them? No. When friends invite me, I politely accept or decline depending on what the situation calls for.

Hafeal
02-21-2011, 11:01 AM
... a bit different. Ship buffs are a crutch as it is, why would you want to add a crutch on top of a crutch?

Eh, well, I don't see a difference between the two. It is a time-saver. In fact, the time savings for the OPs suggestion would be greater by your own suggestion than the chest button, thus might merit more consideration.

As for the merit of ship buffs themselves, I would guess that would be a great conversation for another thread.

darkminstrel
02-21-2011, 11:02 AM
Ship buffs however should not tick in public (much like store xp pots). That would solve the grouping issue completely as you could buff up front and wait at the quest door.

Ooh, we likes this one! I'll /sign that, but bugger the OP's idea.

Hafeal
02-21-2011, 11:04 AM
there's A Loot All Button? :eek:

Lol. :d

Failedlegend
02-21-2011, 11:11 AM
What's the point of an airship with all the frilly graphics then? They spent the time to do it up like that for a reason.

They should instead make an airship teleporter available at a some higher guild level. It can teleport you to the ship from anywhere on the map (public instances only). "Beam me up, Scotty". Convenient, yet keeps the immersion, and gives another thing to strive for.

Heh I'd want that just for fun :D

FYI "Beam em up Scotty" was never actually said

Malison
02-21-2011, 11:14 AM
Ship buffs however should not tick in public (much like store xp pots).

/signed to this.
/not signed to the OP

Also, on a balance issue: ship buffs are another tier in power creep, or the I Have Over 9000 Str problem. What do you think if ship buffs were changed to give modifiers of a nonstacking type? IE instead of +2 guild strength you get +2 exceptional strength? This would give guilds an edge in versatility (frees up some gear slots) without making their characters strictly stronger.

Random thoughts related to that idea:
There is precedent: the guild caster DC buffs don't stack with a +DC item, and the resistance shrines don't stack with the spell.
Some buffs would then need a tweak in magnitude: who needs +1 natural armor when you could chug a bark pot, but +4 or 5 would be useful.

Uska
02-21-2011, 11:14 AM
No More Lazy Easy Peasy Buttons

Uska
02-21-2011, 11:16 AM
it isn't about laziness it is about good game design

you want to minimize un-fun maintenance while maximizing fun of you know playing

running around a ship from shrine to shrine like booths at a trade show is NOT FUN
running from where you are, to the nearest terminal, then from the terminal to the quest entrance is NOT FUN

and as the other poster said even if you don't care other people will and you are stuck waiting for them

I fail to see where your idea is about good game design and is anything other than lazy and I dont make people wait while I get ship buffs and it annoys me when others make me wait but I still HATE YOUR IDEA.

Hordo
02-21-2011, 11:20 AM
I know, there is so much travel time in this instanced game...why do we even have to go trainers when we level or gain , you should have a seperate tab in the UI instead of these trainers. When i die i dont want to have to go all the way to the barkeep and buy some hp regeneration , the game should do it for me. After quest completion , why should i need to go back to the quest givers , a reward bar should just open for me right away. Infact i dont want to have to go to the bank ,Ah , mailbox or any vendors, they should be parts of the ui. You know what, lets not stop there. Lets turn the game into one town hub with a teleporter that takes to any quest we want. Yeah that should remove all the travel time.

+1 Sarcasm Bonus! :D

slothinator
02-21-2011, 11:21 AM
OP,

Don't you think your suggestion will make the game MORE difficult. After all, it is going to be hard to play with BOTH of your hands being held.

/not signed - for lazy easy button

/signed - paused buff timers in public areas

Requiro
02-21-2011, 11:33 AM
ship buffs should be granted to guild members upon entering any quest zone, still removed on death

there is no reason to require running back to the ship, going to each shrine and activating

it doesn't add anything to the game other than an annoying, trivial time sink

if the design intention is for the buffs to burn down while the group forms then just grant 30 min versions of the buffs upon entering and 1 hour versions if you slog to the shrine/crew member and activate it

non members who are invited should still be required to go to each shrine individually

Hey OP. I have other great idea. Ask yourself: What is the fun where you must go all the quest from beginning to the end? No fun at all!! Quest should look like: Enter, battle with boss, End. XP and reward granted. What will be very cool fun, isn't it? ;)

btw:/ not signed

Martdon
02-21-2011, 11:37 AM
No, just no

Doomcrew
02-21-2011, 11:44 AM
it isn't about laziness it is about good game design

you want to minimize un-fun maintenance while maximizing fun of you know playing

running around a ship from shrine to shrine like booths at a trade show is NOT FUN
running from where you are, to the nearest terminal, then from the terminal to the quest entrance is NOT FUN

and as the other poster said even if you don't care other people will and you are stuck waiting for them

If going to your ship to buffs isn't fun, why do it?

Maybe better suggestion, why not have a hallway of portals on every ship so you can just port
directly to the next quest?

Why not have an auto repair option at the end of each quest.

Why not have a travelling vendor beside each end chest?

Questions that need answers.

eonfreon
02-21-2011, 11:47 AM
Thanks for the laughs guys.
I couldn't care less either way on the topic, but seeing all the talk about "laziness promotion" in a video game is truly awesome.

Because we all know how "productive" it is to play a video game. And after all, nothing promotes "activity" more then "running" around and "doing" trivial, repetitive, and monotonous actions.

So, thanks for the humor. It must be humor right? I mean no one in their right minds thinks that playing a video game is not pretty much inherently a lazy way to use your time right? No one really thinks that they are being any more "active" by pushing the "w" key and moving their mouse around, right?

Come on, tell me you guys are kidding.

flynnjsw
02-21-2011, 11:48 AM
You know what, Buffing in quest is no fun either. Give me a /cast all so I don't have to take the time to do that either. Maybe a /blast all to cast attack spells for me when I am in combat.

Entelech
02-21-2011, 11:51 AM
not /signed.

If you have a group waiting at the quest entrance and someone says "Oh noes, I hab to gets buffs!" you drop them from the group if it takes longer than 45 seconds.

If they REALLY need the minor benefits from ship buffs, they ought to plan ahead and be considerate of their groupmates' time.

I use it as a barometer of my group-member's idiocy factor. As far as I am concerned, ship buffs are working as intended.


Also, if you REALLY need those buffs, either you're a TR on his 3rd or later life, or (far more likely) you're playing an extremely poor build and are attempting to camouflage the fact. Be honest, you know who you are.

eonfreon
02-21-2011, 11:54 AM
You know what, Buffing in quest is no fun either. Give me a /cast all so I don't have to take the time to do that either. Maybe a /blast all to cast attack spells for me when I am in combat.

LOL.

You know there is a difference between playing the quest and running around Stormreach right?

But please continue. I Love the "easy button" fear-mongering. Yes, I'm sure the ability for the characters to be played by the game and not us is just around the corner.

I mean, did you notice that you get all your spell points, clickies, and hit points returned when you recall out of a completed quest. Once upon a time you didn't. I know, it's horrible now. No more need to buy a drink and food at a tavern. The horror, I tell you!!!

Lerincho
02-21-2011, 11:55 AM
Plus the people that we are generally waiting on are the very ones asking in General chat for a group with a guildship with certain buffs, or the one begging for a ship invite as soon as they enter the group. Not like you are waiting for guildies, and if you are, that's a separate issue.

cpito
02-21-2011, 12:01 PM
I mean, did you notice that you get all your spell points, clickies, and hit points returned when you recall out of a completed quest. Once upon a time you didn't. I know, it's horrible now. No more need to buy a drink and food at a tavern. The horror, I tell you!!!

It didn't bother me back then and while it's convenient now, I wouldn't miss it if they went back to the old way.

eonfreon
02-21-2011, 12:02 PM
It didn't bother me back then and while it's convenient now, I wouldn't miss it if they went back to the old way.

Why? What's the benefit to going back to the old way?

Hafeal
02-21-2011, 12:08 PM
Why? What's the benefit to going back to the old way?

Well, you know, it would foster that sense of community when the Cleric would stand on a table in the Lobster and pass out heals and dvs to the masses. Today, there are no more bows, dances, hugs and kisses.

In fact, the taverns are downright struggling for business - which is why they need that low exchange rate when you pawn there. And let's not mention those Silver Flame servants - yikes, other than the bind point thing, I hear revenue is way down ... ;)

flynnjsw
02-21-2011, 12:10 PM
Why? What's the benefit to going back to the old way?

Maybe, just maybe, people won't need the crutch in the first place.

Uska
02-21-2011, 12:17 PM
If I have the star I guarantee you will not wait for someone to get ship buffs.

OOh I want to group with you I hate waiting for that.

Failedlegend
02-21-2011, 12:18 PM
LOL.

You know there is a difference between playing the quest and running around Stormreach right?

But please continue. I Love the "easy button" fear-mongering. Yes, I'm sure the ability for the characters to be played by the game and not us is just around the corner.

I mean, did you notice that you get all your spell points, clickies, and hit points returned when you recall out of a completed quest. Once upon a time you didn't. I know, it's horrible now. No more need to buy a drink and food at a tavern. The horror, I tell you!!!

HA HA HA!!! +1 to you sir

Bobthesponge
02-21-2011, 12:21 PM
What you're asking for is sort of like an easy button for an easy button.

/notsigned

this.

cpito
02-21-2011, 12:23 PM
Why? What's the benefit to going back to the old way?

What they said but the real point is I'm not too lazy to be bothered with buying a drink and waiting a moment while my mana/hp regen. I talk to a vendor after 95% of quests for repairs anyway so what's it saving me... 3 clicks and 20 seconds?

eonfreon
02-21-2011, 12:28 PM
Okay, to be serious:

Since the system is in place, let's work with the system. I know many would rather there be no buffs whatsoever from Guilds. But it exists. So this is my "problem" with its current implementation:

1) It is an unnecessary and tedious repetitious action.

2) It creates unnecessary delays.

3) It creates unnecessary drama of "folks having to wait and kicking others".

How I would resolve it:
Simply make the timer stop when not in a quest.

There is no real need to make it automatic upon entering a quest, mostly because the option to "not have it" should be allowed as well.

eonfreon
02-21-2011, 12:34 PM
What they said but the real point is I'm not too lazy to be bothered with buying a drink and waiting a moment while my mana/hp regen. I talk to a vendor after 95% of quests for repairs anyway so what's it saving me... 3 clicks and 20 seconds?

Still with the "lazy" stuff?

Okay, I guess it can be considered more "active" to wait for hp/sp regen, by some, so sure. And gosh, those 3 clicks and 20 seconds are a great measure of activity and enjoyment.

Actually, we really should go the other way. Let's make it take even longer to regen sp/hp. Heck, it should be 24 real hours. That would make it even more exciting!!
We can actually have our characters rent rooms, go into them, and sleep. We should have animations for binding wounds and reading spellbooks and meditating to talk to deities. Imagine the excitement!!

DDOSims, sweet!

Itachi83
02-21-2011, 12:35 PM
Its not hard getting ship buffs.
Its just time consuming and kind of stupid.

If it would take me a minute or two to get them, I ignore them.

Making it possible to get all buffs on the ship at once would be nice, in conjunction with their timers stopping outside of quests.

cpito
02-21-2011, 12:43 PM
Actually, we really should go the other way. Let's make it take even longer to regen sp/hp. Heck, it should be 24 real hours. That would make it even more exciting!!
We can actually have our characters rent rooms, go into them, and sleep. We should have animations for binding wounds and reading spellbooks and meditating to talk to deities. Imagine the excitement!!

over-react much? that's quite the leap from "I'm not bothered by having to click and wait a few moments" to "ddosims".

Failedlegend
02-21-2011, 12:46 PM
over-react much? that's quite the leap from "I'm not bothered by having to click and wait a few moments" to "ddosims".

Heh he's just mirroring the people who are doing the opposite

eonfreon
02-21-2011, 12:49 PM
over-react much? that's quite the leap from "I'm not bothered by having to click and wait a few moments" to "ddosims".

Not much more of a leap from wanting to have a time-saving mechanic to "being lazy".

That was my example of the over-reaction of the "easy button" and "lazy promoting" counterargument.

I mean people use the "you want a button to just click and get the endchest" argument all the time.

Now maybe you'll understand my mirth at that over-reaction.

Reasons why it may be of benefit to the game would go a long way to not being so funny.

Community promotion? I can see that to some degree. But not really.

So basically what is the benefit to keeping the system as is?

chester99
02-21-2011, 01:03 PM
i Want The Game To Auto Uninstall If You Are On A Ship When The Rest Of The Party Enters A Quest.

Best. Suggestion. Evar.

Kominalito
02-21-2011, 01:07 PM
i dont see why there is resistance at all to this idea. so the argument is "buffs are ok, but you just have to waste everyone's time to get them."

i think buffs are a slippery slope. they have gone from "neat-o" to completely essential, required, impossible to live without. only they totally arent. you dont need them to do anything in this game. its another cash sink for Turbine. and it works! get everyone addicted, and watch the cash roll in with store points, even though no one needs them to complete anything.

i hear about old epic runs with L14 players a few years ago that people need to be at L20 and TR'd 6 times to get in. the game is getting softer, and softer and softer.

heres a suggestion. how about replacing all the macros in teh game with one button. it just gives you the pretty bell arppeggio sound from a complete quest plus all the xp with one click. the faster you click the faster you can TR to completionist, and leave this game for one that is more challenging. of course, you still need to join their forums, and scream NERF!! till they make it easier to wrap.

cpito
02-21-2011, 01:11 PM
So basically what is the benefit to keeping the system as is?

See my answers to that in post 18 where I bring up choice well before you did. As far as the lazy aspect you're railing against, most of us here are refering to mental laziness and removing the "think" factor from the game. The more we demand the game to automatically do things for us, the less we have to consider our game-play. Seriously, where does it end? What's next? Auto-repair because people forget those pesky mobs can damage equipment? xp for a party-wipe because... ya know...you tried and we shouldn't be wasting time... ?

eonfreon
02-21-2011, 01:12 PM
heres a suggestion. how about replacing all the macros in teh game with one button. it just gives you the pretty bell arppeggio sound from a complete quest plus all the xp with one click. the faster you click the faster you can TR to completionist, and leave this game for one that is more challenging. of course, you still need to join their forums, and scream NERF!! till they make it easier to wrap.

No way. I want Shrines to take 24 hours to use instead. That would be awesome. Can you imagine the fun and excitement of having characters sleep, read spellbooks, and meditate to their deities?

eonfreon
02-21-2011, 01:14 PM
See my answers to that in post 18 where I bring up choice well before you did. As far as the lazy aspect you're railing against, most of us here are refering to mental laziness and removing the "think" factor from the game. The more we demand the game to automatically do things for us, the less we have to consider our game-play. Seriously, where does it end? What's next? Auto-repair because people forget those pesky mobs can damage equipment? xp for a party-wipe because... ya know...you tried and we shouldn't be wasting time... ?

True. I fear it will only end when Cats sleep with Dogs. Mass Pandemonium!!

cpito
02-21-2011, 01:18 PM
True. I fear it will only end when Cats sleep with Dogs. Mass Pandemonium!!

It's not mass pandemonium we fear, it's the boredom of a WoW-like induced coma.

eonfreon
02-21-2011, 01:20 PM
It's not mass pandemonium we fear, it's the boredom of a WoW-like induced coma.

So less time in quests because we're waiting for people to get Ship Buffs is less boring?

Failedlegend
02-21-2011, 01:25 PM
So less time in quests because we're waiting for people to get Ship Buffs is less boring?

No Eon that's a logical statement...logic isn't allowed on the DDO forums

SardaofChaos
02-21-2011, 01:26 PM
I like how now everyone is happy with making ship buffs pause in public because auto-buff on quest entrance is worse, but when ship buffs pausing in public had a thread of its own there was public outrage.

krud
02-21-2011, 01:29 PM
So less time in quests because we're waiting for people to get Ship Buffs is less boring?
How about the teleport to ship idea? At some upper guild level you could teleport right to it from any public instance. Or would that still be too much immersion for you.

cpito
02-21-2011, 01:31 PM
So less time in quests because we're not waiting for people to get Ship Buffs is less boring?

Knowing there's more than one way to do something and the choices I make influencing my game-play are what makes it less boring. That includes the choice of making my party wait (and maybe getting booted), offering up my ship or running a quest without ship buffs.

zorander6
02-21-2011, 01:50 PM
Well, I don't bother with guild ship buffs since my guild just go the ship last weekend. Maybe I'll look at the XP one when we can unlock it. If my wife and friend want others it's up to them.......If I'm leading the quest and we are ready to go you can just catch up.

Hafeal
02-21-2011, 02:06 PM
You know, after some thought (admittedly, not too much), I can only conclude that given how a request such as this might threaten all servers with incredible, rampant laziness, I can only conclude that in addition to the removal of the "Loot All" button, all ship teleportation should now be removed as well. There is absolutely no reason for non-teleporting characters not to run instance to instance the way the game was originally made. Oh, as an afterthought, all quests which are automatically bestowed upon you by walking up or the entire sharing quests design - this mechanism must go as well; please take the time to go find the quest giver.

As it is said, let it be done.

*For those unable to distinguish belief from humor, please be advised the the former statements were made in sarcasm. To paraphrase another, there is no intended criticism in the above response. Every participant in this thread is a valued contributor and I apologize in advance if there was any critical tone in my post.

eonfreon
02-21-2011, 02:10 PM
How about the teleport to ship idea? At some upper guild level you could teleport right to it from any public instance. Or would that still be too much immersion for you.

I enjoy immersion. However, this gives no necessary immersion.
What is necessary immersion to me?
Immersion when I want it.

I enjoy walking around Stormreach. When I want to.

I don't like waiting between Loading Screens. There are times when I want to skip the steps, yes, because they add up.

I do of course "accept" it all as part of the game. I do enjoy using my Royal Guard Mask and teleporting to the Portable Hole or Meridia. Or the Market.
I understand some of the merits of promoting "thinking time" And "waiting time". And "making" us "pass" each other to maintain a sense of a large world.

I just want to see ease of implementation. Instead of being a divisive aspect of play, I like to see it made as part of a streamline part of play.

The "inconvenience" factor is not a good balancing factor. It becomes a "waste of time" that could be better used actually being immersed in a quest.

And being used as a guage of competency is just not realistic enough to me. Yes, I do far more often play without buffs because of this inconvenience. Am I really a "better" player because I can play without the buffs? No, no one needs these buffs. However, it is silly if you can benefit from them and have to choose not to so you can "save time".

Those that are annoyed when they have to wait for someone to buff should be happy for anything that allows less delays.

However, instead it is used as a "gauge" when it really shouldn't matter. Is the fact I get +3 to my AC less of an achievement of someone who gets it with a Chattering Ring? If so, why? Because of the amount of gametime?

I can see arguments that the point is to limit the power available to it so that "haves" and "have nots" isn't too large. That way those that can use them aren't required to.

I don't think making it autorecharge is exactly the answer, but it is better then the current "timer" in my opinion.

Entelech
02-21-2011, 02:31 PM
I am not concerned about laziness.

My primary objection to this is that it destroys the immersiveness of the gameworld. It breaks the story in a blatant way.

The letters RPG are still in MMORPG, after all, and if I want to have 100% game time with no distractions, I can play Super Mario World.

Also, it provides a useful test of my groupmates by seeing who has the incredibly bad manners to keep everyone waiting while they dink around getting +1 to their Barbarian's Spell Penetration score. Dropping them from group and squelching them provides valuable lessons that will help them when they eventually log into the game we call "Real Life."

eonfreon
02-21-2011, 03:00 PM
I am not concerned about laziness.

My primary objection to this is that it destroys the immersiveness of the gameworld. It breaks the story in a blatant way.

The letters RPG are still in MMORPG, after all, and if I want to have 100% game time with no distractions, I can play Super Mario World.

Also, it provides a useful test of my groupmates by seeing who has the incredibly bad manners to keep everyone waiting while they dink around getting +1 to their Barbarian's Spell Penetration score. Dropping them from group and squelching them provides valuable lessons that will help them when they eventually log into the game we call "Real Life."

There is a lot to be said for RPG. But what is it here? The Role-Playing of a meeting place?

So why am I a better RPG player because I can use my Royal Guard Mask to skip a bunch of the "legging it". Because wouldn't I, living in a Magical World, want to move around with "ease".

People will always want to go to taverns for instance. There are plenty of social people. I am one. Most of us are one. Some are more shy or whatever, but the trend is towards being social, even with all the "solo" aspects allowed by the game.

That is what makes good RPG. People who want to play together. All the rest is just a game. And I don't see much wrong with enjoying my playtime by doing quests instead of being immersed in what someone considers the correct level of immersion.

I don't want all travel or anything removed from game. I just want to see less needed aspects of it. The whole "waving their hands" to teleport was cool the first couple of times; nowadays, not so cool.

cdemeritt
02-21-2011, 03:09 PM
/not signed...

and please learn what buffs are actually needed for each quest...

I hate buffs, especially when they aren't needed...

Pt 1 of shroud... I like TS, GH (for fear immunity, just me, some don't care) and jump... (I carry clickies on almost everyone in case these don't happen) Haste and rage... ok a few bard songs help too...

When I can't see all the buffs I have, then I have too many...

Warforged, You don't need FoM or NP in the shroud.... I will point and laugh at you if you ask.

Don't ask for a line of buffs if you are about to fight a beholder...

I love watching a cleric empty his mana bar just buffing... rather sad actually.

Seliana
02-21-2011, 04:15 PM
Eonfreon, you cant argue with logic and reason on these forums. It will only be met with hostility and panic.

Any suggestion that results in less tedium will be met with mass hysteria over how the games getting too lazy and easy for people. You run into counter-arguments like "Back in my day I had to walk to school uphill both ways while carrying a 200 pound bag on my back in the rain and I think lightning was hitting me too. Kids have it too easybutton these days! I did this content at level 10 on epic with 50 hitpoints bars and by gawd we we're going afk in the bossfights because we were so elite that we just needed the extra challenge sonny!" *insert shaking a cane here*

Hafeal
02-21-2011, 04:23 PM
Eonfreon, you cant argue with logic and reason on these forums. It, and any and all change, will only be met with hostility and panic.

I had to make an addition.

LOL. +1.

stainer
02-21-2011, 04:27 PM
If you get the buffs automatically when you enter a quest, then you may not know that the training dummy expired in the mass of items in your buff bar. This will cause an epic drama post in the suggestions forum because someone could no longer hit Harry without this particular buff.

The only natural conclusion is that ship buff shrines automatically update, with the game selecting a random guild member to pay for the shrine.

HA! I figured it out!

But wait... then there will be a fail thread about how someone had to spend tp or plat when they didn't want to.

/assplode

justhavinfun
02-21-2011, 04:31 PM
/not signed

iIf you are looking to join a group it is your resposinbility to be prepaired. If you want buffs have them and don't wait till the group is ready to enter the quest then need to run get them. Same thing if you need pots, wands, scrolls, or spell componenets. I hate waiting for people to run all over the place to get these things then 3 hours later finally enter the quest.

I have a lvl 28 guild and am not even worried about getting a ship. Everything you can get on the ship you can get in Stormreach. Also have not found where not having all of these buffs have made my character any worse than the people that spend all of their time worring about having them.

eonfreon
02-21-2011, 04:37 PM
If you get the buffs automatically when you enter a quest, then you may not know that the training dummy expired in the mass of items in your buff bar. This will cause an epic drama post in the suggestions forum because someone could no longer hit Harry without this particular buff.

The only natural conclusion is that ship buff shrines automatically update, with the game selecting a random guild member to pay for the shrine.

HA! I figured it out!

But wait... then there will be a fail thread about how someone had to spend tp or plat when they didn't want to.

/assplode

How much to-hit do you get from the training dummy? I forget.

Yes, the main problem I have is that it's a big hassle for little reward. That's why I barely use it.

You're absolutely right, tp shouldn't have any bearing on Guild Buffs. But it is understandable from Turbine's point-of-view to want to find ways to fund further development and pay employees.

krud
02-21-2011, 05:24 PM
I enjoy immersion. However, this gives no necessary immersion.
What is necessary immersion to me?
Immersion when I want it.
<snip>So how would you explain the ability to obtain all airship buffs upon entering a quest? How would you explain being able to receive a buff from the airship without ever visiting the ship? What mechanism would justify this, especially when every other favor buff requires you to speak to a vendor to receive a buff?

many of the other shortcuts added to the game don't cross the line of removing the immersion, they only remove extra clicks.

-fully rested after leaving completed instance: You're finished and in a secure area, you should be able to rest. In lieu of adding rest shrines at the end of every quest, we automatically are rested.

-walkup quests: You discover the entrance and go on in. Whether you spoke to the man before or after doesn't matter if it's written that way into the story line.

-share quest: You join a group that already has their task set for them. Seems like a no brainer.

-loot all: You're right there at the chest. It simply removes extra clicking.

all of these are simply removing extra clicks, the op's request goes far beyond that.

chodelord
02-21-2011, 05:36 PM
So how would you explain the ability to obtain all airship buffs upon entering a quest? How would you explain being able to receive a buff from the airship without ever visiting the ship?

I would explain it that my character would want every advantage when he goes out to do his job, and he is meticulous and prepared.

During the time my character eats and takes a dump, the player doesn't see it but it doesn't mean that it isn't happening.

Would it make you happy if the quest loading screen was a comic book page that showed your toon entering the ship, walking up to shrines and crew members, then exiting?

Zilta
02-21-2011, 05:42 PM
I want the game to auto uninstall if you are on a ship when the rest of the party enters a quest.

/signed a thousand times over stainer

cpito
02-21-2011, 06:09 PM
I would explain it that my character would want every advantage when he goes out to do his job, and he is meticulous and prepared.


Except this argument can be used to go way too far. "My character is meticulous and prepared and wants every advantage when he goes out to do a job so grant me Harry beaters."

krud
02-21-2011, 06:09 PM
I would explain it that my character would want every advantage when he goes out to do his job, and he is meticulous and prepared.

During the time my character eats and takes a dump, the player doesn't see it but it doesn't mean that it isn't happening.

Would it make you happy if the quest loading screen was a comic book page that showed your toon entering the ship, walking up to shrines and crew members, then exiting?
/fail

There are no toilets or menial tasks not related to questing in the game. This is directly related to everything you do in a quest. You always have to talk to vendors to buy buffs and stuff. This is no different. Only ddo store bought stuff can be obtained on the fly. If bypassing the travel time were made into a store purchase then i'd be fine with it. More money for turbine from the impatient ones,... win!

joneb1999
02-21-2011, 06:10 PM
For the argument that the OPs idea is about laziness, this game is forever messing with in game time sometimes with fast travel store purchases, airship teleporters that can save you time running between far flung areas of zones (so Meridia is just two loading screens away and a short run across your ship even if you are at the gates of Deleras Graveyard in House J), ofcourse wizards and sorcerors can cast teleport with their spells anywhere anyway and the bank, AH and Innkeepers are all available on ship or a very fast loading screen away in the Harbor or the 12.

However saying this I dont agree with the OPs idea but with Loriens, ie that ships buffs should pause in public areas.

Doomcrew
02-21-2011, 06:26 PM
I would explain it that my character would want every advantage when he goes out to do his job, and he is meticulous and prepared.

During the time my character eats and takes a dump, the player doesn't see it but it doesn't mean that it isn't happening.

Would it make you happy if the quest loading screen was a comic book page that showed your toon entering the ship, walking up to shrines and crew members, then exiting?

If your character is "meticulous and prepared", why doesn't he have the buffs already?
Why are others required to wait for you?

eonfreon
02-21-2011, 07:08 PM
So how would you explain the ability to obtain all airship buffs upon entering a quest? How would you explain being able to receive a buff from the airship without ever visiting the ship? What mechanism would justify this, especially when every other favor buff requires you to speak to a vendor to receive a buff?

many of the other shortcuts added to the game don't cross the line of removing the immersion, they only remove extra clicks.

-fully rested after leaving completed instance: You're finished and in a secure area, you should be able to rest. In lieu of adding rest shrines at the end of every quest, we automatically are rested.

-walkup quests: You discover the entrance and go on in. Whether you spoke to the man before or after doesn't matter if it's written that way into the story line.

-share quest: You join a group that already has their task set for them. Seems like a no brainer.

-loot all: You're right there at the chest. It simply removes extra clicking.

all of these are simply removing extra clicks, the op's request goes far beyond that.

Okay. Explain. I can do that.

Well see since I have access to these kickass buffs and all, well I'm "in". Yes, the "in" that requires paranthesis. Yes, misspelled but either way I know my in is "IN", dude.

See. I meditated and the Gods said " let thou enjoy the fruits of thou labor" Yep, they used "thou". I know, right.

Okay, I'll get back after the next round. BRB ;).

Tilliak
02-21-2011, 07:19 PM
I'm hearing a lot of QQing over nothing. I can absolutely guarantee that nobody is being forced to wait that long for people to get airship buffs. Guaranteed. It simply is not happening.

Failedlegend
02-21-2011, 07:46 PM
/not signed...

and please learn what buffs are actually needed for each quest...

I hate buffs, especially when they aren't needed...

Pt 1 of shroud... I like TS, GH (for fear immunity, just me, some don't care) and jump... (I carry clickies on almost everyone in case these don't happen) Haste and rage... ok a few bard songs help too...

When I can't see all the buffs I have, then I have too many...

Warforged, You don't need FoM or NP in the shroud.... I will point and laugh at you if you ask.

Don't ask for a line of buffs if you are about to fight a beholder...

I love watching a cleric empty his mana bar just buffing... rather sad actually.

So you think no one should ever play DDO unless they know everything about every class,quest, equipment, buff, debuff, etc. IOW no one should ever play since thats impossible with playing (Note: This is possible if you research it all in the wiki,youtube,etc. but thats like reading a book once for research than reading it again now that your prepared)

Note to self: CDemeritt hates buff never buff him

krud
02-21-2011, 08:01 PM
Okay. Explain. I can do that.

Well see since I have access to these kickass buffs and all, well I'm "in". Yes, the "in" that requires paranthesis. Yes, misspelled but either way I know my in is "IN", dude.

See. I meditated and the Gods said " let thou enjoy the fruits of thou labor" Yep, they used "thou". I know, right.

Okay, I'll get back after the next round. BRB ;).
Since when did guilds become gods?

Kaeldur
02-21-2011, 08:09 PM
/not signed
for the OPs idea. He can say it as much as he wants, it strikes me as lazy. The fact he still wants those pugs who party with him to run around shoots down his idea that it is anything but elitist/lazy.

Ship buffs however should not tick in public (much like store xp pots). That would solve the grouping issue completely as you could buff up front and wait at the quest door.

This, on the other hand, I would /sign

Makes perfect sense...

Rapagun
02-21-2011, 08:11 PM
Why don't suggest that we get all the buffs of all the boats of people who are in group when you just group with ? (and augment duration if there are two people of the same guild :) )

/not signed

krud
02-21-2011, 08:13 PM
Why don't suggest that we get all the buffs of all the boats of people who are in group when you just group with ? (and augment duration if there are two people of the same guild :) )
In addition if a buff is available to any caster in group it is also auto cast all the time. No need to refresh GH, blur, rage, displacement, stoneskin, etc. It will free up casters to do more "fun" stuff. Also, if you have a skill/stat item anywhere in your backpack it automatically gets applied whenever you activate a skill. No need to swap out gear when searching and disabling, etc.

AndyD47
02-21-2011, 08:26 PM
If it was any easier to get ship buffs, I wouldn't have the time to smoke a cigarette or grab something to drink between quests.

Please,think of the addicts.

eonfreon
02-21-2011, 08:50 PM
Since when did guilds become gods?

LOL.

Never happened.

Sorry, I thought you understood. I'm enjoying my day off so I'll try to make some sense.

Okay I'll give it one try.

Guilds are not Gods. No one is God. The game however has its rulesmakers. Rules are god. Or ya know they govern what goes on ya know.

Tis the nature of it all and all.

Once again, I'll give ya RP reasons later okay. Because it's quite simple. I got this seer to give me a reading.

The seer, you see, she said to me, this thing you see, that I would be.... the best insight on the topic we fear.

Oh, come on you're talking about Ship Buffs.

LOL. I know they kick and all...but ship buffs...lol.

eonfreon
02-21-2011, 09:00 PM
In addition if a buff is available to any caster in group it is also auto cast all the time. No need to refresh GH, blur, rage, displacement, stoneskin, etc. It will free up casters to do more "fun" stuff.

Well I try to free em up, but they still cast it on me. Got them buffs thru UMD but I still get overwrit anyway by "itchy fnger" casters.

Come on Krud. We're casters. we understand spell point management. You really think "Buff Point Management" is something?

So we are talking about not having to "teleport to a ship". Because thats what it boils down to ya know. Can I teleport to a ship and get buffs or will others get angry about it.

LOL.

So glad my PUGS and Guilds dont have to worry about your opinions. Much more fun that way.

cdemeritt
02-21-2011, 09:06 PM
So you think no one should ever play DDO unless they know everything about every class,quest, equipment, buff, debuff, etc. IOW no one should ever play since thats impossible with playing (Note: This is possible if you research it all in the wiki,youtube,etc. but thats like reading a book once for research than reading it again now that your prepared)

Note to self: CDemeritt hates buff never buff him

Not what I said... just learn what buff you really need... and if you absolutely "need" a buff, carry a pot/wand/clickie to get it yourself.... In case someone doesn't give it to you... I don't need to listen to you complain I don't have the buff you "need" especially when it is a buff that won't help you...


But 20 minutes of buffing is never required...

Also learn about your toon... If you have a Lvl 20 WF and you don't know you are immune to hold person, poison, earthgrab, disease, and don't need underwater action... there is a problem... (same goes for many other classes and class abilities...) However a fleshie cleric not knowing this about a WF, it happens and is understandable...


Oh, and if you choose not to buff me, I don't care, I get my own....

eonfreon
02-21-2011, 09:14 PM
Oh, and if you choose not to buff me, I don't care, I get my own....

Thats exactly why I dont buff ya, cuz I know ya got it. Stop testing me bro, cuz dude i gotcha.

LOL. Darn it, I got the spellpoints, ya mind if I use em?

Sethasoigh
02-21-2011, 09:31 PM
/signed

and also make all enemies die on seeing my toon, and give me all raid loot at charater creation, and when i make my toon make it lvl 20 without running any quests......

asphodeli
02-21-2011, 09:37 PM
um in what world do you live in that you get perfect pugs every time...because I wanna go there

Oh and FYI I don't really care about ship buffs either way (although the +5%xp is nice) but usually get them if the rest of the pug is.

so i heard Sarlona has decent PUGS, yo...

Failedlegend
02-21-2011, 09:41 PM
completely unrelated but i just smacked myself with my keyboard..um yeah...sorry im bored :P.

eonfreon
02-21-2011, 09:42 PM
/signed

and also make all enemies die on seeing my toon, and give me all raid loot at charater creation, and when i make my toon make it lvl 20 without running any quests......

Dude, yeah!!!

LOL Ty, cuz even I coulda've hit that level o paranoia without the rulebook!!

No lie cuz I think ya hit me funny bone!!!

krud
02-21-2011, 09:44 PM
convenience is one of the Oh, come on you're talking about Ship Buffs.

LOL. I know they kick and all...but ship buffs...lol.
convenience is a built in limiting factor in the game. From swapping item sets/clickies, to buffing up for a quest, if it is too inconvenient then some people will just pass on it. There is nothing about ship buffs that indicates we should automatically be getting them. Just like favor buffs, just like regular buffs, you gotta go thru the motions to buff yourself. If you want the ship buffs, you gotta go get them.

Maybe the motions could be made a bit smoother, such as easier access to the ship from anywhere, but completely bypassing, and removing the entire mechanic from the game is a bit extreme.

Perhaps instead of ship buffs, you buy the buffs as potions from the ship vendor as they are unlocked (like silver flame pots). Now, you could have them whenever and wherever you please. Then it just becomes an inventory management issue, instead of a convenience issue, but at least there is some kind of mechanism to it, instead of just becoming a default part of our characters. No other buffs exist that automatically become a part of our character with absolutely no action required.

eonfreon
02-21-2011, 09:50 PM
convenience is a built in limiting factor in the game. From swapping item sets/clickies, to buffing up for a quest. If it is too inconvenient then some people will just pass on it. There is nothing about ship buffs that indicates we should automatically be getting them. Just like favor buffs, just like regular buffs, you gotta go thru the motions to buff yourself. If you want the ship buffs, you gotta go get them.

Maybe the motions could be made a bit smoother, such as easier access to the ship from anywhere, but completely bypassing, and removing the entire mechanic from the game is a bit extreme.

Perhaps instead of ship buffs, you buy the buffs as potions from the ship vendor as they are unlocked (like silver flame pots). Now, you could have them whenever and wherever you please. Then it just becomes an inventory management issue, instead of a convenience issue, but at least there is some kind of mechanism to it, instead of just becoming a default part of our characters.

Krud, ya just wait till it aint 11 at night bro. On a day I aint been drinkin all day. I can answer any o ya silly "convenience" notions.


Inconvenince is a limitimg factor? Tyanks Einstein. Deep you think I see.

Yes, "clicking" is a good "balancer".

Krud, I mean Einstein. ya got it down!!

Meetch1972
02-21-2011, 09:56 PM
Tooooo many posts to read in my lunch break. Obviously a debatable topic. :)

Ummm, has anyone thought about the Crucible, with the instinct (?) test which is geared for you if you have low wisdom? Oh... darn, I thought I could do that task, but the %$#!$^% ship buffs are still active! What about a naked or unbuffed Shroud run for fun, like? Sorry, no can do.

Personally, if I feel that if yer running from point A to B, and the trip via the ship is quicker, go ahead and grab the buffs that make life easier on the way. Once you're in Reaver's, don't make the party wait and leave it just for buff refreshing. If a raid is forming, going for hard or elite, and it looks like a few minutes til we've got a full group, go ahead and sneak off to the ship instead of twiddling your thumbs. But if the group is ready to go, I'd rather not hear you ask us to hang on a couple of minutes while you grab the ship buffs.

They're not strictly necessary for quest completion if you can plan for contingencies and manage your resources properly, and can even work against you. The only ship buff I'd like to see automatic on entering the first wilderness area/quest from a public zone is the XP boost from your own ship, if you don't already have one. Of course, if you die, or take more than an hour to complete, it goes away.

Meetch1972
02-21-2011, 10:03 PM
This, on the other hand, I would /sign

Makes perfect sense...

(Edit: That was in response to Lorien_the_First_One's suggestion that ship buffs shouldn't tick in public areas).

One little gotcha (and yes it is minor, but I'm a devil's advocate in this case) - some buffs help you in public areas, including things such as haggle.

So...
- log on hagglebot
- gear hagglebot
- get an invite to the L80 guild ship (I know there's one that will help somewhere in the 20-30 range, no idea beyond that)
- grab any skill buffs you can
- Have haggle bonuses forever as long as you never quest.

Senshock
02-21-2011, 11:10 PM
/notsigned

Redonkulous idea OP

Qutsemnie
02-21-2011, 11:35 PM
"So how would you explain the ability to obtain all airship buffs upon entering a quest? How would you explain being able to receive a buff from the airship without ever visiting the ship? What mechanism would justify this, especially when every other favor buff requires you to speak to a vendor to receive a buff? "

We will take this as representative of "it is not role-playing so it is wrong", and I must confess I am using a stock rebuttal I developed years ago.

Okay role playing. Everyone agree the high water mark of a good roleplaying experience is a pnp game where people are interested in role-playing? I agree. Did you role-play every second of your characters life in real time? If you had to walk to the black smith did you look at the clock and wait for the 10 minutes to go by that you had to walk to the black smith? If the black smith needed half a day to repair your armor did you wait half a day in real time, or did you role play events until you were bored and hit fast forward on the day?

My point is one thing that does not translate perfectly from the pnp game to the mmorpg is the fast forward time button. Every pnp game I ever saw had the occasional fast forward of time button.

You want to explain getting buffs prior to going into a dungeon have this appear on the screen before you enter:
"DM: Okay you walk to the airship and get buffs, nothing eventful happens."


Cause that is exactly what might happen in a pnp game. Not:
"Okay you want to go to the airship show me how you move on the map in real time (even though the DM has no idea for an encounter). Okay show me how you move back. Okay show me how you move to the store. Okay show me how you move back. "

If a DM ever did that to you, you would likely think he was hazing you!

krud
02-22-2011, 06:26 AM
Show me anywhere else in the game where you get a timed buff without taking some sort of action to indicate you or someone else is casting a buff. Zoning into a quest is not casting.

the plane of Amrath is the only one I know of, but, it's a permanent zone specific buff, not a timed buff.

Notajedi
02-22-2011, 06:38 AM
This makes it much more fun for me.

We all know that my skills are elite and I will eventually get the loot anyway, just cut down on the grind.

sarcasm off

Clay
02-22-2011, 06:44 AM
Like I (and Lerincho) said:

You shouldn't need ship buffs. If you do need them you probably won't be in groups with people who don't care about them, therefore your running to get ship buffs won't slow those people down.

What you guys are asking for is sort of like say you enter some quest that is just plain bs (like tons that exist) and you can obviously complete it with no difficulty. So should DDO just say "hey, here, grab the chest and finish out, you're gonna beat the quest anyway so lets just cut the bs and get this over with"?

Signed.... especially with epic farming...

DDO can say... you are just going to grind this out until you get it anyway, so here is the list of everything available... pick one.

Synnestar35791
02-22-2011, 06:53 AM
Lets get the developers to make it so Buffs ONLY active when in Dungeon instances PERIOD !

Talon_Moonshadow
02-22-2011, 07:33 AM
I think when you enter a quest you should just port straight to the end chest.

Or better yet, be able to just ask Jeets for every epic item in the game while on the beach. Would save a lot of meanigless time in this game.

After all, having to actually fight monsters and overcome other obsticles is just a meaningless time sink and hated grind for most players. :rolleyes:

Pomdude
02-22-2011, 07:56 AM
I think when you enter a quest you should just port straight to the end chest.

Or better yet, be able to just ask Jeets for every epic item in the game while on the beach. Would save a lot of meanigless time in this game.

After all, having to actually fight monsters and overcome other obsticles is just a meaningless time sink and hated grind for most players. :rolleyes:

/Signed and give me all of your loot, women and camels.

I love this game that is why I play it. I go with the ups and downs of dev madness. If I stopped liking it I would leave - wouldn't you ? Maybe this is my life philosophy - go with the flow and make difficulties / annoyances challenges not problems.
I think the game has evolved tremendously but I have played since beta and still enjoy it - that has to be an incredible hats off to the creators.

Back to the Op. - I understand what you are saying but the logic of your argument would eventually lead to the quote I have included and as an old friend often says to me - becareful of what you wish for !

Hendrik
02-22-2011, 09:20 AM
ship buffs should be granted to guild members upon entering any quest zone, still removed on death

there is no reason to require running back to the ship, going to each shrine and activating

it doesn't add anything to the game other than an annoying, trivial time sink

if the design intention is for the buffs to burn down while the group forms then just grant 30 min versions of the buffs upon entering and 1 hour versions if you slog to the shrine/crew member and activate it

non members who are invited should still be required to go to each shrine individually

Lazy much?

Your ship that HUGE and takes so much time to buff?

Yea, didn't think so...

:rolleyes:

Lerincho
02-22-2011, 09:24 AM
Lazy much?

Your ship that HUGE and takes so much time to buff?

Yea, didn't think so...

:rolleyes:

Careful, he will say yes to your second question.

eonfreon
02-22-2011, 09:33 AM
I think when you enter a quest you should just port straight to the end chest.

Or better yet, be able to just ask Jeets for every epic item in the game while on the beach. Would save a lot of meanigless time in this game.

After all, having to actually fight monsters and overcome other obsticles is just a meaningless time sink and hated grind for most players. :rolleyes:

I certainly hadn't realized that removing the need to make a stop at a Guild Airship and removing the need to enact an animation of "activation" could lead down such a path.
I know I don't want what you ask for. I want to actually play the game. I don't know why you would want to skip the game.
I suppose the logic is that if some aspect of play is changed all the rest will be too?

And we should preserve the inconvenience of "getting buffs" because it balances their use? And because it's a good thing to have it divide people along the lines of those who "have" it and those who "don't"? And because it's good to further annoy and divide people, some of whom use it as an additional litmus test of competency and will "kick" others because of it?

And it should also be preserved because it adds an element of "role-playing"? Because it needs that sense, otherwise it misses an aspect of "activation", like the "waving of arms" that we call in-quest "buffing"?

Personally, I'm okay with it staying as is. It doesn't make much playing sense, therefore I largely ignore it.
I do dislike Ship Buffs. But mostly because it is an annoyance and don't like it being linked to Guilds. I think it could be improved. I don't simply dislike it's existance, like some seem to.

eonfreon
02-22-2011, 09:38 AM
Lazy much?

Your ship that HUGE and takes so much time to buff?

Yea, didn't think so...

:rolleyes:

My ships kinda mid-sized, I'd say.

Often don't have any useful buffs really. +1 Dex shrine does add a +1 to my AC because my Dex is at an odd number a lot, so I try to hit that one every now and then.

Well, at least my willingness to get buffs occasionally does have the merit of proving I'm not "lazy much".

Lerincho
02-22-2011, 09:46 AM
I certainly hadn't realized that removing the need to make a stop at a Guild Airship and removing the need to enact an animation of "activation" could lead down such a path.
I know I don't want what you ask for. I want to actually play the game. I don't know why you would want to skip the game.
I suppose the logic is that if some aspect of play is changed all the rest will be too? There is a cause and effect to everything within the program code. Example, when Mod 3 was released in late 2006 there was a minor change implemented for breakables, the unintended side the pillars in the Twilight Forge were brought down by the Titan's claw causing the adventure to become uncompletable. You may not know where any change could cause a ripple.

And we should preserve the inconvenience of "getting buffs" because it balances their use? And because it's a good thing to have it divide people along the lines of those who "have" it and those who "don't"? And because it's good to further annoy and divide people, some of whom use it as an additional litmus test of competency and will "kick" others because of it?
If it is inconvenience to get the buffs for you, then don't get them. There has been and will always be the society of Haves and Have Nots. Nothing wille ever change that, not even the DDO Store.

And it should also be preserved because it adds an element of "role-playing"? Because it needs that sense, otherwise it misses an aspect of "activation", like the "waving of arms" that we call in-quest "buffing"?
You do realize that Role-playing is nothing to do with any of thise correct? Turbine used a lot of programmer time in actually animating every action, there for your "activation" someone spent working hours on refining. Remove that and essentially you throw away working hours for nothing.


Personally, I'm okay with it staying as is. It doesn't make much playing sense, therefore I largely ignore it.
I do dislike Ship Buffs. But mostly because it is an annoyance and don't like it being linked to Guilds. I think it could be improved. I don't simply dislike it's existance, like some seem to.

You may not think it make sense, but someone at Turbine, was director by their boss to spend a great amount of time in implementing it. What you have been calling for is essential for you to say, ignore that persons work completely because it is inconvenience for you, yet their boss got exactly what they requested from the employee. Tell me which one is going to have more weight than the other in their request.

eonfreon
02-22-2011, 09:53 AM
You may not think it make sense, but someone at Turbine, was director by their boss to spend a great amount of time in implementing it. What you have been calling for is essential for you to say, ignore that persons work completely because it is inconvenience for you, yet their boss got exactly what they requested from the employee. Tell me which one is going to have more weight than the other in their request.

A bunch of brand new animation was created? Where? Looks like the same "legs running" and same "activate cogs". Can you tell me what important part I'll be missing out on, please?

Well shucks, can't let that design work go to waste by allowing me to skip it.

Let's see, you basically asking me what's more important to a "boss"; an "employee" or a "customer".

Really dude, it's that complicated? My wanting an incovenience removed constitutes a invalidation of someone's work?

Yes, code "breaks" all the time. What's that got to do with anything? Don't mess with it because it isn't broke?

Well sure, that's I guess the best argument I've heard all day.

EDIT: BTW, I know what role-playing is. Some tout it that immersion aspect is an important part of roleplaying and therefore removing it would remove the immersion that helps facilitate that "roleplaying". I don't think it is necessarily part of role-playing therefore I put it in quotes.

Lerincho
02-22-2011, 10:07 AM
eon, again, if it is an inconvenience for you then, you can choose not to use the feature. This would classify this problem as a you problem, not a Turbine problem. Why should Turbine make this change when a very small population of people claim this to be an "inconvenience."

The guildships are a solution to something that people have asked for since prior to Module 1 in 2006, guild housing. They wanted a place to gather, to be able to share items, and even to have something that has a bit of bragging rights to it. So you completely missed the fact that these buffs were not driven by role-playing. The devs took that request and added a little specialness to it by making them airships, and by being able to get special benefits from it all. Turbine spent a lot of money, and even more time on implementing it the way they have; and as many have stated, I would expect things not to change. The only change that they probably will implement will be the timers stopping in public areas, just like potions from the DDO store, which is the bottom line of what people are really wanting.

Are you the same population that state that the favor based buffs House P and J should be granted automatically as well? Is running to P and J an inconvenience for you too?

Bottom line, the "inconvenience", "takes away from game play" just means too lazy to fully participate but want the benefits anyway. We need to stop being a participation trophy society and actually go back to you get exactly what you earn. Put in little effort, get little return, but in full effort, get full return.

eonfreon
02-22-2011, 10:11 AM
eon, again, if it is an inconvenience for you then, you can choose not to use the feature. This would classify this problem as a you problem, not a Turbine problem. Why should Turbine make this change when a very small population of people claim this to be an "inconvenience."

The guildships are a solution to something that people have asked for since prior to Module 1 in 2006, guild housing. They wanted a place to gather, to be able to share items, and even to have something that has a bit of bragging rights to it. So you completely missed the fact that these buffs were not driven by role-playing. The devs took that request and added a little specialness to it by making them airships, and by being able to get special benefits from it all. Turbine spent a lot of money, and even more time on implementing it the way they have; and as many have stated, I would expect things not to change. The only change that they probably will implement will be the timers stopping in public areas, just like potions from the DDO store, which is the bottom line of what people are really wanting.

Are you the same population that state that the favor based buffs House P and J should be granted automatically as well? Is running to P and J an inconvenience for you too?

Bottom line, the "inconvenience", "takes away from game play" just means too lazy to fully participate but want the benefits anyway. We need to stop being a participation trophy society and actually go back to you get exactly what you earn. Put in little effort, get little return, but in full effort, get full return.

LOL.

Well, if they make that one little change of making it "pause in public" outside of quests, then that is exactly the change I would like to see.

LOL.

Since I really don't use them, it would be a bonus for me. If I only had to make that one stop once an hour I may actually do it once in awhile.

LOL. So you're against auto-buffs but okay with paused buffs. Why are we arguing again? Seems we agree.

I usually don't have much need for House P buffs either.

krud
02-22-2011, 10:17 AM
I certainly hadn't realized that removing the need to make a stop at a Guild Airship and removing the need to enact an animation of "activation" could lead down such a path.
I know I don't want what you ask for. I want to actually play the game. I don't know why you would want to skip the game.
I suppose the logic is that if some aspect of play is changed all the rest will be too?

And we should preserve the inconvenience of "getting buffs" because it balances their use? And because it's a good thing to have it divide people along the lines of those who "have" it and those who "don't"? And because it's good to further annoy and divide people, some of whom use it as an additional litmus test of competency and will "kick" others because of it?

And it should also be preserved because it adds an element of "role-playing"? Because it needs that sense, otherwise it misses an aspect of "activation", like the "waving of arms" that we call in-quest "buffing"?

Personally, I'm okay with it staying as is. It doesn't make much playing sense, therefore I largely ignore it.
I do dislike Ship Buffs. But mostly because it is an annoyance and don't like it being linked to Guilds. I think it could be improved. I don't simply dislike it's existance, like some seem to.
whenever you want a temporary buff you have to either cast/click it yourself, or have someone/something else do it. Every single temporary buff works this way in the game. What makes these guild buffs so special that they should be exempt from this? Just because someone finds them inconvenient? It's not an unreasonable request to make someone interact with something in order to receive the benefits from it.

If getting to and from the guild ship is the problem then address that part of problem. Just don't throw out everything else that's working just fine along with it (as the op is suggesting).

Lerincho
02-22-2011, 10:20 AM
We are not arguing anything except your poorly used term of "inconvenience" of something that is optional, and instead of making it optional you wanted an automatic upon entry. How about we add greater heroism upon exist of each question to help everyone haggle while we are at it?


You have been critical of others that have talked about pausing buff timers in public areas. Constantly your tone has be argumentative and derogatory. Present your thoughts and opinion is fine; however, the constant 20 questions anytime someone said something contrary to your own opinion have all been of the derogatory nature. If you wanted to know what had led someone to their opinion, then just ask where they are coming from instead of all the snarky little questions. You will find the response you get better, and the discussion to be more constructive.

Hendrik
02-22-2011, 10:23 AM
Careful, he will say yes to your second question.


Let em since it takes less then a minute to do a full round of buffs on the L80+ ships.

;)

eonfreon
02-22-2011, 10:25 AM
whenever you want a temporary buff you have to either cast/click it yourself, or have someone/something else do it. Every single temporary buff works this way in the game. What makes these guild buffs so special that they should be exempt from this? Just because someone finds them inconvenient? It's not an unreasonable request to make someone interact with something in order to receive the benefits from it.

If getting to and from the guild ship is the problem then address that part of problem. Just don't throw out everything else that's working just fine along with it (as the op is suggesting).

Getting to and from the ship is just part of the problem. Some instant teleportation helps. I understand the desire for the "interaction" for "reception". Not all interactions are equal however.

The Guildship should've been meeting places and full of cosmetic conveniences. The Ship Buffs should have been a completely diffrerent animal. Now that they do exist and are likely here to stay, I would like to see them make "better sense" and be a better use of my time.

No one of course is under any obligation to even hear my requests or desires. However, this is a forum that allows for it to be written, therefore I do.

It could stay as an option. I don't really care. I just would like to see it more streamlined.

Lerincho
02-22-2011, 10:26 AM
Let em since it takes less then a minute to do a full round of buffs on the L80+ ships.

;)

I agree, I laugh when I hear the "inconvenience" argument. Think about to module 1 and imagine what a loot all button would have done, or Module 7 and the share quest feature when making runs to ToD or Hound and how many people died because of the "oh man, I forgot to get the quest".

Oversimplification of this game is to blame for the increase of "inconvenience" talk.

Qezuzu
02-22-2011, 10:29 AM
there is no reason to require running back to the ship, going to each shrine and activating

Then don't. Using the ship buffs is your choice.

I personally detest them. No, you don't need ship buffs to complete Shroud normal. So don't spend 10 minutes getting them to complete the raid 1 minute faster with your uber buffs.

And, no class needs to use every stat shrine. So don't.

There is almost no quest that has every elemental damage type. Don't use them either.

Level 20's do not need to use the XP shrine.

DPS do not need the lore of the twelve.

eonfreon
02-22-2011, 10:30 AM
We are not arguing anything except your poorly used term of "inconvenience" of something that is optional, and instead of making it optional you wanted an automatic upon entry. How about we add greater heroism upon exist of each question to help everyone haggle while we are at it?


You have been critical of others that have talked about pausing buff timers in public areas. Constantly your tone has be argumentative and derogatory. Present your thoughts and opinion is fine; however, the constant 20 questions anytime someone said something contrary to your own opinion have all been of the derogatory nature. If you wanted to know what had led someone to their opinion, then just ask where they are coming from instead of all the snarky little questions. You will find the response you get better, and the discussion to be more constructive.

The discussion is just fine. I responded initially to the humor presented by the exxageration of those that the mechanism is fine and that any change thereof will lead to endchests "given away".

And that is is somehow "intellectually lazy" because I see little point to adding the steps that we are supposed to reenact.

Btw, I have never been critical of those that want the timers to pause in public. I am just amused that one conveneince is judged so much better than another, when they have the same end results.

I respond as I see it.

Lerincho
02-22-2011, 10:34 AM
I personally detest them. No, you don't need ship buffs to complete Shroud normal. So don't spend 10 minutes getting them to complete the raid 1 minute faster with your uber buffs. Takes you 10 minutes? Ladder hitching?


:eek:

Ralmeth
02-22-2011, 10:34 AM
A little simple common courtesy is all's that is needed...If the group is still forming and it won't slow the group down, go get your ship buffs. However if the group just filled or is about to fill, the adventure is about ot start, etc go to the quest as fast as you can and forget your ship buffs. It is not cool to hold the group up just so you can get your ship buffs.

Lerincho
02-22-2011, 10:36 AM
A little simple common courtesy is all's that is needed...If the group is still forming and it won't slow the group down, go get your ship buffs. However if the group just filled or is about to fill, the adventure is about ot start, etc go to the quest as fast as you can and forget your ship buffs. It is not cool to hold the group up just so you can get your ship buffs.

If only such and ideal actually still existed in game or even in reality. A beautiful thing it would be.

Qezuzu
02-22-2011, 10:36 AM
It doesn't take me 10 minutes to do buffs, if I did use them.

But some people do. 10 minutes may be an overstatement but it's still a huge waste of time.

Lerincho
02-22-2011, 10:37 AM
It doesn't take me 10 minutes to do buffs, if I did use them.

But some people do. 10 minutes may be an overstatement but it's still a huge waste of time.

Oh so you were including the smoke/bio break in with the getting ship buffs. You scared me.

Hendrik
02-22-2011, 10:38 AM
My ships kinda mid-sized, I'd say.

Often don't have any useful buffs really. +1 Dex shrine does add a +1 to my AC because my Dex is at an odd number a lot, so I try to hit that one every now and then.

Well, at least my willingness to get buffs occasionally does have the merit of proving I'm not "lazy much".

Even with the huge ships, hitting all the buffs, still take less then a minute.

Granted, chars really do not need all those buffs but they are a nice bonus. Who can complain about +2 STR, DEX, CON or your primary caster stat?

Extra AC, even though meaningless for most, still 'nice' when it does matter. Same could be said for the +1 to Skills.

Who wouldn't want to hit up the Greater Resist Shrine(s) before a Quest? Saves your casters some SP for awhile in most cases.

Maybe we should get rid of Airships? It's not like we, the Community, have been asking for Guild Housing forever and a day. Get rid of the ability to move to any Ward in Stormreach in an instant and fast travel to any adventure area. That way we can have more 'we need mounts to get to x, y, z faster!' posts....

eonfreon
02-22-2011, 10:39 AM
A little simple common courtesy is all's that is needed...If the group is still forming and it won't slow the group down, go get your ship buffs. However if the group just filled or is about to fill, the adventure is about ot start, etc go to the quest as fast as you can and forget your ship buffs. It is not cool to hold the group up just so you can get your ship buffs.

Wouldn't it be just as helpful to get rid of the delay so that there is no hassle to begin with?

Yes, for the most part we are talking about a handful of minutes. The part I like least is the Loading Screens.
If the Loading Screens could be reduced I'd be happy.

Lerincho
02-22-2011, 10:41 AM
Wouldn't it be just as helpful to get rid of the delay so that there is no hassle to begin with?

Yes, for the most part we are talking about a handful of minutes. The part I like least is the Loading Screens.
If the Loading Screens could be reduced I'd be happy.

You let us know if you find a way to make forming a pug group less of a hassle. There is a reason I short man everything, including raids. Why wait for people when it is not necessary. Have yet to find a single raid that actually 100% requires participation of 12 people. 6 quality people typically can do more than 12 typical.

eonfreon
02-22-2011, 10:46 AM
You let us know if you find a way to make forming a pug group less of a hassle. There is a reason I short man everything, including raids. Why wait for people when it is not necessary. Have yet to find a single raid that actually 100% requires participation of 12 people. 6 quality people typically can do more than 12 typical.

I find forming groups to not be too much of a hassle. PUGS or Guild runs.
Don't really know what my secret is.
Good Server and Good People maybe?

Hendrik
02-22-2011, 10:47 AM
I agree, I laugh when I hear the "inconvenience" argument. Think about to module 1 and imagine what a loot all button would have done, or Module 7 and the share quest feature when making runs to ToD or Hound and how many people died because of the "oh man, I forgot to get the quest".

Oversimplification of this game is to blame for the increase of "inconvenience" talk.

Or the introduction of Ring of Friends because that run to X just takes to damn long...

Or the constant requests for Mounts because the run to the entrance of a Quest is to damn inconvenient.

Lerincho
02-22-2011, 10:49 AM
I find forming groups to not be too much of a hassle. PUGS or Guild runs.
Don't really know what my secret is.
Good Server and Good People maybe?

According to the forums you would be in the vast minority then, as people have complained constantly since day 1 about grouping and the LFM panel. Personally I have not used the LFM pannel in over 2 years and do not get affected either by those that are constantly waiting to fill groups. However, looking at the LFM panel you constantly see the same ads up for 10 minutes or longer looking to fill spots, so is it the person getting ship buffs causing the delay or is it really the over picky group leader causing most of the issue in the first place.

Lerincho
02-22-2011, 10:52 AM
Or the introduction of Ring of Friends because that run to X just takes to damn long...

Or the constant requests for Mounts because the run to the entrance of a Quest is to damn inconvenient.

Maybe we have just been here too long. 6 years on one game, who would have thought.

eonfreon
02-22-2011, 10:54 AM
According to the forums you would be in the vast minority then, as people have complained constantly since day 1 about grouping and the LFM panel. Personally I have not used the LFM pannel in over 2 years and do not get affected either by those that are constantly waiting to fill groups. However, looking at the LFM panel you constantly see the same ads up for 10 minutes or longer looking to fill spots, so is it the person getting ship buffs causing the delay or is it really the over picky group leader causing most of the issue in the first place.

The delays you see in the LFM have little to do with Ship Buffs.

I don't really notice. Once in awhile I see some LFMs that seem to last a while. Not too often really. My groups fill up pretty quick. I don't really see much problem with PUGS. Especially snce there seem to be more people playing then ever.

Very few problems with any of the new people I meet either.

Just the regular impatience that all people tend to exhibit at some point or other while playing a video game with limited time.

Lerincho
02-22-2011, 11:00 AM
The delays you see in the LFM have little to do with Ship Buffs.

I don't really notice. Once in awhile I see some LFMs that seem to last a while. Not too often really. My groups fill up pretty quick. I don't really see much problem with PUGS. Especially snce there seem to be more people playing then ever.

Very few problems with any of the new people I meet either.

Just the regular impatience that all people tend to exhibit at some point or other while playing a video game with limited time.

My point sir, is that people are waiting on parties anyways, what difference does it make if it is related to the ship or the fact that the group is not filled? Both cause delays, both are optional.

eonfreon
02-22-2011, 11:11 AM
My point sir, is that people are waiting on parties anyways, what difference does it make if it is related to the ship or the fact that the group is not filled? Both cause delays, both are optional.

Because one would be so simple to control it's not even funny. The other is just folks being folks, so practically be impossible to do anything about.

Your point is that since there are delays, the guild buffing delay is okay?

Look, I get it, it isn't a big deal that I have to port through a few loading screens and click clogs and push the "w" key a bit, with the occasional "s" key.

Some seem to think it adds to the game and shouldn't be changed. I think it's a silly mechanism to allow a new point of contention among players.

Just have it pause or something so that people don't waste time worrying about it, that also includes making it so that people don't "kick" others over it. Or delay. Or go through Loading Screens anymore then needed.

It's just not necessary, in my opinion. Going to the ship for buffs is not my reason for being in a guild and having an airship.

solacerodgers
02-22-2011, 11:13 AM
I have only been playing for about 8 months now and have my monk working on his first TR now lvl 12 and did i knew the group of people I ran with at 20 had gimps and pugs but did not realize how bad things had recently gotten at lower levels as I only have this one toon. We had a party member wipe on us in the 12 chain yesterday and ask if he could actually leave to refresh his ship buffs ????????????????? I was blown away.

Now to my thoughts on ship buffs whatever get them if you need them dont if you dont but do it while you are searching that LFM and not just about to hit the shops/mail/ah/buffs ect as I wont wait for that either so ... xp shrine and navigator check my TR account to see what new stuff i get to pull when i level and im good to go.

I saw a reavers joke in there and yes if you are doing a reavers at 20 and need ship buffs you might as well delete your toon because you are a fail. TOD,elite hounds/vods or epics i can see buffing up as who wants to have to run them again on a fail.

Lerincho
02-22-2011, 11:18 AM
It's just not necessary, in my opinion. Going to the ship for buffs is not my reason for being in a guild and having an airship.

Now you do truly understand why people are so divided on this issue right now. The reasoning that it is a big topic right now is for the fact that there are now people out there that will only join a guild of a certain level, or a party if they are given a ship invite which is what is truly causing most of the griefing issues, not the actual act of waiting for someone to get ship buffs.

And this is the fundamental reason that automatic buffs should not be the answer. The easy answer to the automatic buffs would be the buffs from the highest guild level in the party, think of the griefing in partying this would cause, or the increased spam of general of people looking for guilds (or even those looking for a guild on the LFM panel).

eonfreon
02-22-2011, 11:26 AM
Now you do truly understand why people are so divided on this issue right now. The reasoning that it is a big topic right now is for the fact that there are now people out there that will only join a guild of a certain level, or a party if they are given a ship invite which is what is truly causing most of the griefing issues, not the actual act of waiting for someone to get ship buffs.

Yes, but those are separate issues. But I see evidence, mostly in the forums, little in-game, that people are just as willing to find the issue of someone running to get a guildbuff as another reason to get angry and worked up about something.
So any reduction of the need to get to the buffs when you want them can certainly help that "issue".
Even if all I save is a minute or two, I would like to save that minute or two.

And those issues you speak of are less annoying to me. Those people I can ignore. The Loading Screens so that I can get a +1 to my Dex I can't ignore.

Because, I'll be quite frank, I could care less who has earned what. I earned mine and I get to play with my toys. The "politics" of "chest-thumping" I leave to others.

Lerincho
02-22-2011, 11:38 AM
And those issues you speak of are less annoying to me. Those people I can ignore. The Loading Screens so that I can get a +1 to my Dex I can't ignore.


You're quite right, let's get rid of loading screans completely. After all we want everything instant so there should be no zoning. It could not be that loading screens are there because actual content is being loaded, certainly Turbine put them in there just as advertizements. After all they have not been there since the beginning, right? Oh that's right, loading screens are a part of EVERY MMO on the market. Dragon Age does not have loading screens.

Ralmeth
02-22-2011, 02:18 PM
Wouldn't it be just as helpful to get rid of the delay so that there is no hassle to begin with?

Yes, for the most part we are talking about a handful of minutes. The part I like least is the Loading Screens.
If the Loading Screens could be reduced I'd be happy.

Oh man, what I would do for loading screens to take no time at all!!! That should really be the suggestion! :)

eonfreon
02-22-2011, 02:21 PM
You're quite right, let's get rid of loading screans completely. After all we want everything instant so there should be no zoning. It could not be that loading screens are there because actual content is being loaded, certainly Turbine put them in there just as advertizements. After all they have not been there since the beginning, right? Oh that's right, loading screens are a part of EVERY MMO on the market. Dragon Age does not have loading screens.

Yes, I would love no loading screens. I realize that it's to load up content. So it isn't going to happen any time soon that's for sure. However, if I reduce the need to run through multiple instances I am making it easier on myself and Turbine's resources as well.

Luckily my Level 42 Guild doesn't have anything I really want besides comraderie and friendship and most of the time even if I enter a quest with 10 to 45 minutes left on Guild buffs, what do I really care? Not too much.

Now, I don't like buffs when they become needed. I do see the possibility of Guild buffs being contentious because of this reason. But as nice as +4 or 5 to AC if I use every buff is, I don't care about that aspect of the game. If folks start having Job Applications that require certain Guild levels and corresponding buffs, I will simply not play with them. They are not a contagion. They are simply folks who like things differently. This game has plenty more friendly people. At least I find it to be so. The segment of the gamers some of us dislike, even myself, are already here. They already are discriminating.

The inconvenience of having to "get buffs" and having them "wear out when not in quests" does not seem to me to be a good balance to the buffs existence. Either they are overpowered and they need to be looked at and re-evaluated. Or they are simple buffs that it is good to have. But either way, by making it a "hassle" all it does is provide friction between me and another player. Because I don't really mind playing the game with folks that take it super serious, because it is fun too, but if they want me to have a buff I would like to be able to hit a tab and bam have it. Just like all the clickies I carry.

Luckily, it is indeed simple enough to "get the buffs". Sure it is a small point of friction. That's why I keep using the word "inconvenience". That's all it is. Never said it was huge. Quite the opposite.

I can understand the resistance to making it "too simple to get".

Let me be clear:
I like my Guilds. I am in a couple on a couple of different servers. The level of the Guilds and the buffs that are available are of little difference to me. However, I do realize how good they can be to people who need/want/like them. And the really cool things aren't even timed, the altars and other nice time saving and cosmetic items.

The one thing of any tangible in-quest abilities are the buffs. Who while powerful for low level characters, have the benefit of making the "less fun" aspects of the game "quicker". At high levels the buffs scale down in comparable power, considerably.

I came from the "tougher days" ;). I don't fear its disappearance. It is always somewhere around the bend. As easy as some parts get, other parts stay "tough". But in the end all the tools I need to beat the game are provided by the game. That's why it has little bearance on real life. In real life the tools aren't as clear and simple. Earning something in real life is a darn sight different from earning something in a video game. Life is one place that don't give trophies for much. I think most of us learned that a long time ago.

I long ago earned everything I have in DDO. If others take different routes to beat the game, something most do on a regular basis, I really aint stressed about it. I "beat" it a long time ago. It's a great game and fun. Just because I can disagree with something doesn't mean I'm not having fun.

Kominalito
02-23-2011, 02:17 PM
I think when you enter a quest you should just port straight to the end chest.

Or better yet, be able to just ask Jeets for every epic item in the game while on the beach. Would save a lot of meanigless time in this game.

After all, having to actually fight monsters and overcome other obsticles is just a meaningless time sink and hated grind for most players. :rolleyes:



ding!

Talon_Moonshadow
02-23-2011, 05:03 PM
I certainly hadn't realized that removing the need to make a stop at a Guild Airship and removing the need to enact an animation of "activation" could lead down such a path.
I know I don't want what you ask for. I want to actually play the game. I don't know why you would want to skip the game.
I suppose the logic is that if some aspect of play is changed all the rest will be too?

And we should preserve the inconvenience of "getting buffs" because it balances their use? And because it's a good thing to have it divide people along the lines of those who "have" it and those who "don't"? And because it's good to further annoy and divide people, some of whom use it as an additional litmus test of competency and will "kick" others because of it?

And it should also be preserved because it adds an element of "role-playing"? Because it needs that sense, otherwise it misses an aspect of "activation", like the "waving of arms" that we call in-quest "buffing"?

Personally, I'm okay with it staying as is. It doesn't make much playing sense, therefore I largely ignore it.
I do dislike Ship Buffs. But mostly because it is an annoyance and don't like it being linked to Guilds. I think it could be improved. I don't simply dislike it's existance, like some seem to.

I was being sarcastic. And making fun of more threads than just yours.

joneb1999
02-23-2011, 05:54 PM
TURBINE BALANCES IN GAME TIME QUESTING AND TRAVELING

I only started playing this 18 months ago but as far as I have been led to believe the game has hugely increased its game area and content just in this time. More to do, more to run around in, more preparation. I think even Turbine have realised this and they balance giving us more shortcuts like the backdoor to the harbor and the gate to the 12 in Lordmarches Plaza, airship navigators and add in to the mix store items for fast travel so theres no need for sarcasm about getting epic items from jeets at the beginning of the game to save playing the game at all even though its quite funny. :rolleyes:

WHY HAVE SHIP BUFFS THAT ARE NOT USED AS OFTEN AS THEY COULD BE

The OP went too far but I can identify with the frustration a bit. I get the impression there are two camps of ideas in regards to ship buffs. Those who don't use them and those who do. Those who don't use them don't need them. Many of those who do use them find it too much a bother to run back to them all the time and often will just end up playing on without them. What use are they in both these cases and so really whats the point to them?

NO BIG DEAL TO MAKING SHIP BUFFS MORE EASILY ACCESSIBLE

After running around a ship for a while to gather shrine buffs its all rather boring. Apart from the dummy theres no challenge to it so to ask for making ship buffs more time effective isn't too much especially if you are waiting ten minutes for the party to form and get into the quest at least then if you want to get a few quests done with the ship buffs running you may find yourself running all the way back to the ship from Reavers or Meridia to get them again. This could be because the first quest took quite long and the party drops a few members and needs a new lfm or need to sell and repair and get a quest reward so they can take that quest and run it again.

SUGGESTIONS AND A REASON FOR SHIP BUFFS BEING MORE EFFECTIVE TO USE

So maybe ship buff access or timers need rethinking. To this end maybe in further off areas such as Meridia there should be the same navigator to port you back to the ship as there is on the ship or maybe ship buffs should be permanent in a session until death maybe encouraging better play in dungeons as it helps keep those buffs. Having them permanent until death possibly makes them effective as a death penalty for some not to want it to happen. Right now its not such a big deal losing them on death if you are on a timer as you know you will lose them anyway and maybe sooner rather than later if you are at the end of a quest and only have 15 minutes left.