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stille_nacht
02-21-2011, 08:56 AM
So ive never quite cared about skill points until now, but now i am quite confused...

I have a Ranger6, and am multi-ing into rogue. Now i thought i could only put in one more UMD point per level, and was depressed, but then loh and behold, i can put 4 points into umd and get it to 8.5 (i think that was it). How does this work? Can you just put in points such that it is at the maximum it could be for that particular class? and in that case, should i wait till level, say, 13, to take another rogue level?

elujin
02-21-2011, 09:05 AM
you can always add points to the max level of that skill +1 for class skills +0.5 cross class

so at lets say lvl 10 you can have a umd of 14 max (without cha mod) on a rog
on pure ranger it wil be half that 7
when you multi you unlock it as a class skill so you can go to 14 again (on rog levels you can put +1 for 1 skill points on ranger levels its +0.5 for 1 skill point)

if can live with out it, its more skill point economical to level umd on a rog level.

dkyle
02-21-2011, 09:08 AM
Each class has class skills. These are skills that can be bought for 1 skill point per rank when you take that class. If you want to raise a skill that isn't a class skill for the class you're currently leveling, it costs 2 points per rank. Some skills (Perform, Disable, Open Lock), cannot be bought unless they are a class skill for one of your classes.

There is a maximum number of ranks. If a skill is a class skill for any of your classes (whether it's the class you're currently taking or not), the max is 3 + your level (so 23 at level 20). If the skill is not a class skill for any of your classes, the max is half that (so 11 at level 20).

Since you're taking a Rogue level, UMD is now a class skill for you, so your max ranks is now 10 (at level 7) instead of the 5 it would have been if you took a seventh level of Ranger.

Note that from this point on, after taking Rogue, you can spend two points per level to keep your UMD maxed (or even more to catch up). There's no limit to how many points you can spend on a skill at each level, only the total number of ranks you can have in it given your level.

As for waiting to level again, it can be a good idea if you can't afford two points each level. You can let yourself fall behind a little, then catch up on leveling Rogue, when each rank costs only one point.

FuzzyDuck81
02-21-2011, 09:12 AM
If any of your classes has a skill as a class skill, you can get up to (total character level+3) ranks in it - however, if the class you're currently levelling up in DOESNT have it as a class skill, then it'll cost you 2 skillpoints to increase it by 1 rank. If you take the 2nd rogue level later then you can top-up the extra ranks at only 1 skillpoint per rank.

For mixes like the very popular wizard/rogue, since wizards will have so many bonus skillpoints from their high INT they can actually keep the rogue skills mostly maxed out as they level (topping off with the 2nd rogue level around level 9 or so usually) & will have trap finding/disarming skills that are pretty much on par with a pure rogue. Ranger/rogues also have a lot of synergy for this as they have a number of shared class skills & rangers get a pretty nice amount of skillpoints per level too.

One important thing to remember though is that if you're taking a rogue splash on ANY build, its best to take rogue at level 1 - this is because you get 4x the skillpoints at 1st level (meaning 40 on a non-human or 44 on a human with 14 starting INT).

hermespan
02-21-2011, 09:39 AM
you can always add points to the max level of that skill +1 for class skills +0.5 cross class

so at lets say lvl 10 you can have a umd of 14 max (without cha mod) on a rog
on pure ranger it wil be half that 7
when you multi you unlock it as a class skill so you can go to 14 again (on rog levels you can put +1 for 1 skill points on ranger levels its +0.5 for 1 skill point)

if can live with out it, its more skill point economical to level umd on a rog level.

This... if you don't do this you are tossing skill points into the trash.

If I'm taking 2 rogue levels I take first rogue level at 1, then wait til level 7 for 2nd rogue level, pump UMD and any other rogue skills I'm developing, then go back to the main class skills.

That being said, for op... there's no reason to take 2 rogue levels unless you are doing rogue PrE on a ranger multiclass, since rangers get evasion at level 9. You are better off taking monk for extra feat, stances, kama, handwraps, etc proficiencies and wisdom to AC bonus (though this last is useless unless you are building a tank).

You can keep your rogue skills maxed on a ranger without a 2nd rogue level. You get 6 SP per level (enough for UMD, Search, Disable)

Vorpal kamas in fire stance is very nice... +2 str and light weapon. Suggest you look into the exploiter (it's just a name, not really an exploit) build before you make a move with a second rogue level.

stille_nacht
02-21-2011, 09:51 AM
yeah im doing 6/2/12 rgr rog ftr (going AA kensai for flavor :])

i chose 2 rog over 2 mnk because i think SA and UMD is better than two extra feats (toughness and weapon focus)

PopeJual
02-21-2011, 10:51 AM
So ive never quite cared about skill points until now, but now i am quite confused...

I have a Ranger6, and am multi-ing into rogue. Now i thought i could only put in one more UMD point per level, and was depressed, but then loh and behold, i can put 4 points into umd and get it to 8.5 (i think that was it). How does this work? Can you just put in points such that it is at the maximum it could be for that particular class? and in that case, should i wait till level, say, 13, to take another rogue level?

I was originally confused about this too, but it actually works exactly the same way as the d20 SRD.

You can have up to level+3 ranks in a skill if it is a class skill.

You can have up to (level+3)/2 ranks in a skill if it is a cross class skill and each point invested grants 0.5 ranks.

If you have ever had a class that has that skill as a class skill, then you can take the skill ranks up to the full level+3, but each point invested in that skill while it is cross class for the level that you are currently taking grants only 0.5 ranks per point invested.



Check to see how much you can end up with in the skill by level 20 before you start putting points in it. At this late in your career, it might not be worthwhile, but it still might be a great investment. Depends on your needs.

7-day_Trial_Monkey
02-21-2011, 11:03 AM
yeah im doing 6/2/12 rgr rog ftr (going AA kensai for flavor :])

i chose 2 rog over 2 mnk because i think SA and UMD is better than two extra feats (toughness and weapon focus)

I hope by that you mean an extra toughness, and not that you are making this char without any toughness feat. :confused: