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gurth83
02-15-2011, 03:17 PM
Hi. First of all. Please fix viruos II and spellsinger II songs. Sustaining Song and Spellsong Vigor don't work on warforges and one song corrupts other.

Second thing. Please give us bard PrE in update 10. Here are ideas which schould be easy to implement, usefull and continue path of Pre II and Pre I.

I added Bard Past Life feat as alternative requirement to save AP, because Bard Past Life is weak and I want to promote True Bards.

Thanks.


Bard WarChanter III

* Usage: Passive

* Cost: 2 action points

* Progression: 66 action points

* Requires All of: (Bard WarChanter II, Bard Inspired Attack III, Bard Inspired Damage III) or Bard Past Life

* Available to Bard class level 18

* Benefit: Your further studies into war have granted you another +2 bonus to your Intimidate skill, for a total of +6. You have also grown more resilient, gaining +10 maximum hit points,vfor a total of +20, gain heavy armor proficiency (And the ability to cast arcane spells in heavy armor without arcane spell failure.), and gain access to purchase additional martial weapon proficiency you possess Weapon Focus in for 1 action point and additional 1 rage. You also gain the ability to expend a use of Bardic Music to grant yourself and all nearby allies +4 morale bonus to strenght and constitution at the cost of -2 ac, or to produce a short duration non-magical +2 competence bonus to all skills and combat feat dc for self and all allies.

Song of Rage
War March

Bard Spellsinger III

* Usage: Passive

* Cost: 2 action points

* Progression: 66 action points

* Requires All of: (Bard Spellsinger II, Bard Song Magic IV, Bard Lyric of Song III) or Bard Past Life

* Available to Bard Level 18

* Your further studies into magic have granted you another +2 bonus to your Concentration and Use Magic Device skills for a total of +6 to each. You also gain another +100 maximum Spell Points for a total of 300. You now have the ability to expend a use of Bardic Music to grant yourself and all nearby allies a +15% morale bonus healing amp, or to apply on enemies -6 spell penetration.

Song of Vitality
Shattermantle Song

Bard Virtuoso III

* Usage: Passive

* Cost: 2 action points

* Progression: 66 action points

* Requires All of: Bard Virtuoso II, Bard Charisma III, Bard Lingering Song III, Bard Extra Song IV, Imp Perform III) or Bard Past Life

* Available to Bard class level 18

* Your further studies into song have granted you another +2 bonus to your Diplomacy, Listen, and Perform skills, for a total of +6 to each. You also gain 2 more extra uses of Bardic Music per rest for a total of 7, and the ability to extend the duration of your beneficial songs by an additional 10% for a total of 30%. Your uses of Bardic Music regenerate over time at a rate of 1 every 4 minutes. You can now expend a use of Bardic Music to apply a temporary evasion effect (reflex save = no dmg insead of half) and +4 shield ac bonus (protect from force spells like spell version ) to self or ally, or to hold a single enemy. A successful Will save negates this effect. (DC Based on Perform check.)

Breakdance
Song of Hold Person

Blank_Zero
02-15-2011, 03:20 PM
I like where this is going.

Illiain
02-15-2011, 03:52 PM
* Benefit: Your further studies into war have granted you another +2 bonus to your Intimidate skill, for a total of +6. You have also grown more resilient, gaining +10 maximum hit points,vfor a total of +20, gain heavy armor proficiency (And the ability to cast arcane spells in heavy armor without arcane spell failure.), and gain access to purchase additional martial weapon proficiency you possess Weapon Focus in for 1 action point and additional 1 rage. You also gain the ability to expend a use of Bardic Music to grant yourself and all nearby allies +4 morale bonus to strenght and constitution at the cost of -2 ac, or to produce a short duration non-magical +2 competence bonus to all skills and combat feat dc for self and all allies.

Song of Rage
War March


Most Warchanters splash to increase their melee abilities. This feels a little light for what you loose not taking a deep splash. I'd suggest changing it to "and gain access to purchase additional martial or exotic weapon proficiency you possess Weapon Focus in for 1 action point".

Just splashing a single level of Barb/Fighter/Ranger/Pally grants all martial weapon profs. Why overwrite one of your major benefits with a class that will most likely take a 2 level splash after the 3rd tier PrE?

elujin
02-15-2011, 04:03 PM
i am not a big fan of your virt 3 it seems worse then virt 2 in my opinion virtuoso is the soloist bard or the bard for shortman groups

the evasion thing doesn't seem in lline with that the hold isn't to bad but a bit underwelming for a single target though mass hold would be a bit overpowerd mebey giving enthrall a auto stun effect it would hit many targets but break fast

and also somthing buffing -2wis or adding -2 fort saves saves entrhall has to help caster and stunners in epics :)

mostly the seccond part seems valueble without beeing too overpowerd

Gorbadoc
02-15-2011, 04:31 PM
The True and Only Bard Pre3 Ideas

This is a terrible thread title. It makes me feel bad reading your post, like feedback is unwelcome. That's a dirty rotten shame; this is a topic that I would love to discuss.

Seikojin
02-15-2011, 05:01 PM
Virtuoso 3 seems a little too much like paladin replacement.

Doxmaster
02-16-2011, 04:05 PM
Bard Spellsinger III

* Usage: Passive

* Cost: 2 action points

* Progression: 66 action points

* Requires All of: (Bard Spellsinger II, Bard Song Magic IV, Bard Lyric of Song III) or Bard Past Life

* Available to Bard Level 18

* Your further studies into magic have granted you another +2 bonus to your Concentration and Use Magic Device skills for a total of +6 to each. You also gain another +100 maximum Spell Points for a total of 300. You now have the ability to expend a use of Bardic Music to grant yourself and all nearby allies a +15% morale bonus healing amp, or to apply on enemies -6 spell penetration.

Song of Vitality
Shattermantle Song


* +2 UMD/Concentration-sounds about right.
* +100 sp-sounds about right.
* Shattermantle song- doesnt sound right.
* Vitality song-interesting, but doesnt seem right

So far, Spellsinger gets +1 to caster level, +1 to spell DC, -10% spell cost and SP regeneration. The next step would logically be sometihng else spell casting related; a bonus to spell potency, a bonus to spell penetration(that stacks with the bonus from arcane might), added spell duration(once again stacking with arcane might), removal of the added costs of metamagic feats or an improvement in casting speed.

Whatever it will be, it will most likely improve a bard's ability to play the 'caster' or 'healer' role most parties expect, as well as improve a 'caster' or 'healer''s preformance when they are in the party.