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View Full Version : Remove the Re-Flag on Against the Demon Queen



stille_nacht
02-14-2011, 07:26 PM
It has been posted that the run to DQ1 should be removed, but i have a further idea. Remove the necessity of re-running DQ1 in the first place.

Still have it necessary on the first run, but on latter runs, remove it as a necessary flag.

This is not an "easy button", unless being able to form a full raid is an easy button...DQ1 is not hard, it is not challenging, and it is not rewarding. However, what it does do is:
Waste Time
Make it Harder to Group Up
Make it much Harder to Change Group Composition

People can still run DQ1 if they choose to, but i feel that requiring a party quest as a flag for a raid is unnecessary. It would be like having to run tor every time you did Reaver's, or having to run Litany every time you wanted to do Abbot.

If people have already gone through the effort to flag for the raid, they should not have to constantly reflag in two groups shooting tells everywhere, and then merge. They should be able to gather a full raid through the LFM like every other raid in the game

Alternative
As suggested by several other players, make DQ1 a 12 man raid (of course scaling up difficulty), accessed by talking to zawabi, which then leads to DQ2. (similar to Vault of Night, essentially two quests that function as one) This would also remove the hassle of the dual parties quite nicely.

Krag
02-14-2011, 07:29 PM
/signed

stoolcannon
02-14-2011, 07:30 PM
This is a tough one. Do we really want an epic raid that takes 15 mins to complete? No probably not, but as it is the pre-investment is just boring, easy busy work i.e reflagging.

So I agree, the reflag is pointless.

At the very least make ADQ able to be a 12 man group. I don't care what the hell it does to the quest balance at level honestly. It's the grouping thing that bothers me more than anything when trying to fill the raid,

Messaging back and forth 500 times with the other party lead while trying to fill out a group is annoying at best.

KillEveryone
02-14-2011, 07:31 PM
I don't mind doing the quest so much but I think it should at least be different.

It should be a 12 player instance and the djinn should appear at the end chest to teleport you to the raid itself, much the way you do in VoN.

Having to have 2 six player parties run DQ1 then merge is silly. This whole mechanism is just one cluster F.

If it was removed, I wouldn't be bothered either because people will just run it on casual to get through there the fastest to get to what we really want to run anyway so it wouldn't really be missed either.

If you were required to run it on the difficulty that you wanted to do the actual raid, it would matter then.

Dysmetria
02-14-2011, 08:05 PM
If nothing else, as stoolcannon suggests, make DQ1 a 12 man raidWouldn't they have to make Sands an outdoor raid zone?

HalfOrcBeautyQueen
02-14-2011, 08:14 PM
So I agree, the reflag is pointless.

At the very least make ADQ able to be a 12 man group. I don't care what the hell it does to the quest balance at level honestly. It's the grouping thing that bothers me more than anything when trying to fill the raid,



Very Much So Signed !
I wouldn't mind if ADQ was required for reflagging, as long as it was a 12 man raid as well.

stille_nacht
02-14-2011, 08:26 PM
Wouldn't they have to make Sands an outdoor raid zone?

maybe a portal similar to amrath? or even better, zawabi ports you there (talk to him, i am read... in dq1, dq1 has an entrance to dq2, like VoN). i would prefer just doing away with its necessity :/

Logicman69
02-14-2011, 08:33 PM
Or make ADQ and DQ one long raid... Do the puzzels, fight the DQ once, then Zawabi appears and ports you to the final fight.

FlyingTurtle
02-14-2011, 09:10 PM
/signed

dumb, needs fixing.

A 15 min raid isn't really a problem with raid timers preventing ransack or XP/min overflow or what have you.

Ganak
02-14-2011, 09:11 PM
/signed

Doing dq1 now is a waste of time.

sweez
02-14-2011, 09:28 PM
But it would be such an easy button!! Only the Best Of The Best can beat DQ1 on casual!!

:rolleyes:

It's a pointless waste of time that offers exactly zero challenge/gain (other than the flag itself) to people going on to eDQ2. VoN5 at least has rust monsters and 11 other people to chit chat with while piking. And unlike DQ1, you can actually ***** it up.

Templarion
02-14-2011, 09:30 PM
Good suggestion and good arguments.

/signed

donfilibuster
02-14-2011, 09:40 PM
/not signed
not all quests need be the same, if von5 is raid or if you need not rerun tor, or if tod has a portal, or if litany isn't a preraid, each quest can be different.

everything can be improved of course, maybe if they have a lobby so that adq can be 12-man.
the court will be like meridia in which you need to run through the vale before joining the raid party.

Waukeen
02-14-2011, 09:47 PM
/not signed
not all quests need be the same, if von5 is raid or if you need not rerun tor, or if tod has a portal, or if litany isn't a preraid, each quest can be different.

everything can be improved of course, maybe if they have a lobby so that adq can be 12-man.
the court will be like meridia in which you need to run through the vale before joining the raid party.

/not signed as well.

Although I am open to the options above.

I like DQ1, as far as 6 man quests go it is well thought out and interesting.

Please note that they changed the total reflag mechanism that used to be part of DQ and VoN, be happy with what you have been given.

Chai
02-14-2011, 09:52 PM
How about we just remove any need to play the game? I mean whats up with all this running places and doing stuff? There should just be one dude in the harbor you can talk to in order to get any quest in the game, and when you enter the quest, the boss meets you at the entrance and hands you their loot. Everything else totally smacks of effort.

Remember when that dude bantered the slippery slope arguement in the first thread that complained about how the game was too hard with perminent curses and stat debuffs back in the day, and we all laughed at him about wanting to keep it the way it was? This ones for you bro. /pours one out.

Way ahead of his time....If only we had listened.

Kinerd
02-14-2011, 11:18 PM
Please note that they changed the total reflag mechanism that used to be part of DQ and VoN, be happy with what you have been given.I prefer to be happy with what is good and unhappy with what is bad. It seems so much less like groveling at the feet of a disinterested god, wouldn't you say?

donfilibuster
02-15-2011, 01:28 AM
One does not simply walk into Lailat

Palantyr
02-15-2011, 06:35 AM
I agree with this. DQ1 would have some meaning if you were required to complete it on the difficulty you wanted to do part 2 on, but since the default now is part 1 casual part 2 epic to me there seems to be little point requiring part 1 be done before the raid. It might make desert explorer/raid shards a bit easier to come by (just a bit really), but the other 4 quests will still need to be done if you want seals and/or scrolls.

sirgog
02-15-2011, 06:57 AM
/signed.

DQ1 was an outstanding quest design, totally and utterly ruined by having to run it at level 20 when you want to group with 11 of your friends/guildies/randoms and take on Lailat for real.

FlameDiablo
02-15-2011, 06:58 AM
/not signed
personally i think that ADQ1 is not a problem, the main problem is that a lot ppl are lazy and don't wanna run alone a lvl 12 quest, so they wait party to fill up and than waste time for flag, why they didn't wasn't just flagged. Pls don't reply that some classess cannot solo that since i solo whole quest in 10 mins with my full SpS bard 8 str no offensive spells.
In my guild when we start to group for raid if yu are not flagged yu skip the raid, and it is 10 min epic raid.
What's the problem of flagging before to go on raid? Lazy ppl. Solution? When LFM on: "ADQ2 epic, be flagged"

A cool thing would be a teleport to the quest coz running whole wilderness is really boring, and half times i forgot to reset and need to run twice.

Sillk
02-15-2011, 08:55 AM
/signed

My guild would run DQ more often if we didn't have to all break up, run 2 groups then get back together and run the raid.

Sarisa
02-15-2011, 09:27 AM
ADQ1 IS fun the first few times you do it. It's also a good challenge and good experience at level with a competent group.

What isn't fun is running it for the 200th time on casual with a group of level 20's, with others who won't even run normal because "it takes too long". This, along with the "oops, I didn't talk to the Djinn twice", and splitting the group and all the joy the two leaders have to deal with to balance the actual raid group just make the whole system drag.

SiliconShadow
02-15-2011, 09:36 AM
Remove it, make it 12 man and on the way in like VON that I do not mind at all.

Memnir
02-15-2011, 09:37 AM
Make ADQ1 like Tor and ADQ2 like Reaver's Fate, in my opinion. Kill her twice in her den for the raid flag - then repeat only at your leisure. Yes, that would make the DQ raid fight pretty short - but so is Fate.

I also think they should add some named items to ADQ1 to make running it still preferable. Or, maybe a form of grindable crafting mechanic to lure people in to run it more then once. Efreeti Armor or weapons sounds good to me. We pick up their ashes or elemental fragments, and for a number of Antique Bronze Tokens and these Effreeti components - Forgemaiden can show off how good she and her apprentices are by making something cool out of em. This would also put some reason back into picking up the tokens.

Tor has the scales... add something less potent then scale items, but still good at-level for the raid (or maybe a bit lower... say ML 9 to make the grind more palatable), and I think that'd be a very good reason to keep people running ADQ1. It's worked for Tor.


Sure, it would require a lot of work and for that reason is likely to never happen... but I think it'd be the best way to fix the DQ raid once and for all.

jwdaniels
02-15-2011, 09:38 AM
/not signed
personally i think that ADQ1 is not a problem, the main problem is that a lot ppl are lazy and don't wanna run alone a lvl 12 quest, so they wait party to fill up and than waste time for flag, why they didn't wasn't just flagged. Pls don't reply that some classess cannot solo that since i solo whole quest in 10 mins with my full SpS bard 8 str no offensive spells.
In my guild when we start to group for raid if yu are not flagged yu skip the raid, and it is 10 min epic raid.
What's the problem of flagging before to go on raid? Lazy ppl. Solution? When LFM on: "ADQ2 epic, be flagged"

A cool thing would be a teleport to the quest coz running whole wilderness is really boring, and half times i forgot to reset and need to run twice.

The problem is that you have to fill out two six-person groups to flag, then you have the inevetible situation where a handful of people drop because they'd rather do the raid with guildies but just grouped to flag, then you have to find replacements and run ADQ1 again to flag the new people, but by this time other people in the first group have lost interest and gone to do something else.

If the flagging quest was 12-person, it would solve pretty much all of the complaints I've ever had/heard with this raid.

PopeJual
02-15-2011, 09:39 AM
I don't mind doing ADQ1 before Zawabi's Revenge, but I don't like the fact that I can't get back into ADQ1 until 3 days after ADQ2.

I'd like to be able to reflag at my convenience and also go back to farm Epic when I want to instead of being locked out of the quest for three days.