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LadyStella
02-13-2011, 11:55 AM
Greetings all...I've been reading the forums for a couple of days now, and feel more confused than when I started! I'm pretty new to DDO, and will be primarily duo'ing, with a slightly more experienced friend. We're currently playing a cleric (me) and wizard/rogue (him) combo, but his research into our future viability has led him to believe that a bard/favored soul combo might work better. I'm strictly a free-to-play person, so I'd play the bard and he'd do the favored soul. I'm looking for a bard build that is primarily melee-focused, and lets me do the traps, with buffing his healing and casting on the favored soul as the secondary focus.

From what I've read, I think a warchanter bard, either 18bard/2rogue or 16 bard/2 rogue/2 fighter is our best bet for this combination. I'm not positive though, as I do want to help out his casting so maybe Spellsinger is a better option? As I said, I'm free-to-play, so I can't be a drow or anything like that. Does anyone have any advice or can link me a good build that fits this focus and playstyle?

Thank you in advance.

Noctus
02-13-2011, 12:10 PM
16 bard/2 rogue/2 fighter is our best bet for this combination. I'm not positive though, as I do want to help out his casting so maybe Spellsinger is a better option? As I said, I'm free-to-play, so I can't be a drow or anything like that. Does anyone have any advice or can link me a good build that fits this focus and playstyle?

16/2/2 is indeed best for your conditions.

As you want traps and are FTP, i´d recommend Human for the +1 skillpoints per level.

As you´lll only have PB28, i´d recommend going THF, so you dont need to invest into DEX on a attribute-needing character.

Stats:
Strength 16 (all levelups here)
Dexterity 8
Constitution 14
Intelligence 14
Wisdom 8
Charisma 14

1st level: Rogue. Always. For the 1st level bonus skill points.


must-have Feats:
* Extend
* WF:Slashing
* Power Attack
* Toughness
* IC:Slashing
* THF
* ITHF
* GTHF


You need to be good in melee when you duo, so Warchanter is way better for this playstyle than Spellsinger. Especially on Bosses where CC doesnr work its glaring, and which will usually be the biggest challenge to overcome in a dungeon.

LadyStella
02-13-2011, 12:24 PM
Thank you so much Noctus, this is exactly the type of advice I'm looking for. Based on what I've read, I had picked out that exact stat distribution, and that I should go THF instead of TWF, so I'm glad to see I'm not totally off base.

My understanding is that there is also some importance to the order in which you do your multiclassing. My reading had implied to me that rogue should be first, as you said, but where should the of the multiclassing come in? My understanding is that taking your multi-classes in the right order can make sure you don't take redundant feats.

Irinis
02-13-2011, 01:36 PM
Yeah going THF on a 28pt bard gives you a lot more usefulness out of the character. It is possible to go TWF if you're willing to sacrifice CHA a little more though.

SaneDitto
02-13-2011, 02:01 PM
Note that with your DEX it may be difficult to get a high enough reflex save for Evasion to be reliable in later content, especially on Elite. Be very careful around traps and try to avoid having to make a save in the first place!

If you don't mind micromanaging, you can deduct 2 points from CHA and place it elsewhere, such as DEX. The reason is 12 CHA allows you to cast Eagle's Splendor, which will bump your CHA to 16 and gives you access to 6th level bard spells until you can replace Eagle's with more permanent buffs (+4 or greater CHA item, tomes + enhancement). However, this is just a suggested variant so don't be in a rush to implement it.

B/F/R gives 10 feats in total (7 + bonus human + 2 bonus fighter feat). Noctus outlined the "must-have feats" so I won't say too much about it (unless it's to replace the THF feat line with the Dragonmark of Finding line if you love loot more than glancing blows). For my bard, I picked "Force of Personality" and "Skill Focus: UMD", but again, this is just a suggestion.

tihocan
02-14-2011, 07:36 AM
Personally I'd go with Insightful Reflxes as 9th feat, precisely to not have to worry about Dex. This way you can wear an Int item instead (which will also buff your Rogue skills without having to swap gear).
My 10th feat would probably be Maximize for quick heals. Although SF: UMD can indeed be handy at mid levels and until you get good enough gear to stand at 39 without it.

Satinavian
02-14-2011, 08:25 AM
I would suggest a different approach.

Without 32 Pt i would use Drow (you can get Drow without buying it for 400 favor. You already played some time and you should be able to get the rest on your cleric easily joining pugs. Lots of veteran Chars in the harbor and Korthoos and market, who do group for low-level-elite-completions)

You could use the Cha, the Int(skillpoints and classskill for traps) and even the Dex, if you go TWF instead of THF. Also you would have enhancements availible for rapiers and shortsword. And you would get racial boni for search and spot and optional racial enhancemants for those skills. It makes attaining sufficiant skills on this splash easier.

You would loose some HP (con, racial enhacements, but still in the range of suggested build in the bard-forum) and maybe some strength for TWF and more DPS, slightly better trapskills, better reflex save.



Order of multiclassing :

The first level gets 4 times the normal skillpoints. So if you take something else first, you would loose 3 times the difference in skillpoints to Rogue.

the rest of the order is not that important. You will miss evasion until getting 2nd Rog-Lv. And you might want to use Bonus-Feats that needs prereqisits, so you have to make sure, you can take them, when you take the level, that gives the feat.


And i would surely prefer spellsinger, when you plan to run almost exclusively with an (non-meleeing) Fvs. As the Fvs has not a full party to heal, he will most probably do a lot of offensive casting and CC. Also you can restore his SP later. While Warchanter gives you and him +1/+2 hit/damage, a DR that later gets obsolete, Recklessness, which is of little use to your 2-man-party and Greater Heroism, wich you can cast as spell.

unbongwah
02-14-2011, 09:18 AM
I recently posted this rogue / bard build (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3577613&postcount=3); it's a 32-pt TWF build, but it's easy enough to adapt to 28-pt THF instead by dropping DEX and swapping the TWF feats for THF. I built it as a Virtuoso, but again it can be adapted to WC or SS by dropping SF Perform and taking the necessary pre-req feat(s) for whichever PrE you want. Adding two fighter lvls would add two feats, martial weapon prof., some extra HPs, and +1 STR enh, but delay your bard progression and lower your skill pt total.

TheKeg
02-14-2011, 09:59 AM
I love my rogue/bard. He's currently 17th (ready for 18th) and hasn't had any trouble with traps since way early in his career (before making money to buy decent equipment). Just this past weekend in fact, I ran several Vale/GH quests on Elite and got all traps without problems. I still haven't gone to Cabal to try that ultimate trap, but that one is an exception to the rule. :D

I highly suggest you go to here (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO/) and get the character planner to plot out your progression. I've had 2 rogue splash guys (for traps), one I took the 2nd level of rogue at 9th and the other I didn't take until 12th. Just plan out things to see where it fits best for you.

LadyStella
02-14-2011, 04:13 PM
Wow, thanks all for all the advice and insight. I had actually already downloaded the character build planner, and am slowly working one out, using a combination of what you guys have said, and other builds that have pieces of what I think I need. When I have it I'll post it here and get some more specific feedback. Thanks again everyone :)

Valindria
02-14-2011, 04:27 PM
Is your friend sold on FVS?

What my friend and I did was:

Me: Pure Bard WC (classic rocker template more ideal)
Him: 18/2 Ranger/Rogue (Tempest III. Though actual ended up being 18/1/1 with a fighter level)

I could heal, buff, melee, and do limited CC. He can do DPS, Traps, some buffs, and limited self heals.

It really worked out well for us. If we wanted to pug we could add almost anyone to the group. If we got a healer I would go full dps mode and only self heal. If we couldn't get one I would step back and heal as needed. We plan to do something similar on our 1st TR and basically just improve our 1st bards to be more ideal.

LadyStella
02-14-2011, 05:59 PM
Ok, so here's my first shot at a build. I messed it up at the end, by somehow forgetting to take Inspired Bravery III, leaving me unable to take Warchanter II. I can't figure out how to remove an enhancement after I've selected it, to go back and change that. I'd probably change it at the later levels, taking out some levels of Improved Perform.

Remember, this is my first time ever trying to make a build and this is pretty piecemeal from what others have suggested and what I've seen in other builds, so be gentle ;)


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Alinor
Level 20 True Neutral Human Female
(2 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 16 Bard)
Hit Points: 260
Spell Points: 525
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 15
Will: 9

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 20
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 14 14
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 14 18

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 3 3
Bluff 2 4
Concentration 4 27
Diplomacy 2 4
Disable Device 6 26
Haggle 6 10
Heal -1 -1
Hide -1 -1
Intimidate 6 14
Jump 7 11
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently -1 -1
Open Lock 3 15
Perform n/a 30
Repair 2 2
Search 6 26
Spot 3 3
Swim 3 5
Tumble 3 3
Use Magic Device 6 27

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
Enhancement: Improved Search I


Level 2 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Improved Perform I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


Level 4 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 5 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Improved Perform II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II


Level 8 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I


Level 11 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II


Level 12 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II


Level 13 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Music of Makers
Enhancement: Bard Music of the Dead


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II


Level 16 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II


Level 17 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Improved Perform IV


Level 19 (Bard)
Enhancement: Falchion Training
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I

EllisDee37
02-14-2011, 07:22 PM
I can't figure out how to remove an enhancement after I've selected itAdd it again. Selecting enhancements works like a toggle switch, double-click to add, double-click again to remove.

Smexxy
02-14-2011, 07:45 PM
I noticed that you didn't include the human +1 stats into your enhancements. I would skip the Preform skill boost in order to fit in at least the first tier of +1 stat and put it into STR. Also you can get rid of Improved Concentration line unless it is needed for the PrE.

Your ending STR should look like 16 +5(level up) +2(enhancement 1 human, 1 Fighter) +2 tome for an ending base of 25.

So:

25 str (base)
6 (item)
2 (rage)
33 almost constant STR

You can throw in a +7 item instead of +6 and +3 EXC STR, for an almost constant 37 STR if you decide to buy some adventure packs and get Epic items.

tihocan
02-15-2011, 01:31 PM
Just a few remarks:
- It's best to be able to get Warchanter I as soon as possible once you reach 6 levels of bard. That DR song is very handy. This means either take Fighter one level earlier, or consider taking PA instead of THF at L1 (even though you may not use it much at lower levels -- but with good gear and buffs it's actually doable).
- Try to get Insightful Reflexes as close as possible to your 2nd level of Rogue. You can delay some of the THF feats for this.
- If you spent any skill point into Haggle / Intim / Jump, don't: Balance would be more useful. I would also get one rank in Tumble (I like being able to tumble on all my chars), but that's just me.