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TheKaige
02-12-2011, 09:34 AM
Just multiply ALL attack rolls by 50% to 150% BEFORE adding the d20 roll/double roll for Epic mobs.

This will greatly increase the ranges of viable ACs, and more importantly, it scales, not only as you level, but as you take on tougher monsters in any form (there's a difference between what a first time level 20 player fights, and a TR'd several times 20 fights).

The Math:

Giving a monster a +60 attack bonus and using a non Epic monster, the range on viable AC versus said Monster is effectively 62 to 79; 61 and 80 are automatic hit and miss. A whopping range of 18 points; take the same monster with the multiplier and

The +60 Bonus fluctuates between a +30 and a +90, giving a viable AC range of 32 to 109, a range of 77 points. Now while this is a rather high attack bonus, it's only at higher levels that AC is so gimped; in any event, it still expands the range somewhat as you level.

To prove that both have the same average and that offense doesn't win out on defense with this;
The average of 62 and 79 is 70.5, the average attack roll.

The average of 32 and 109 is ALSO 70.5; the average attack of the mob hasn't changed, just the range.

Which is also why you have to multiply BEFORE the die roll; if you multiply after the die roll, you get these numbers:
Minimum of 31 to a maximum of 118.5 ((60+2) x .5, and (60+19)x1.5) is an average of 74.75; the monster's average accuracy has actually increased (why? Probably something to do with order of operations; can't say I'm too worried about the why)

And of course, to be fair, anything that we do to the monster, we have to do to the players (someone who never missed except on a 1 won't be a fan of this change, but maybe they'll enjoy being missed occasionally in return too)

While a multiplier to the attack roll isn't very true to the tabletop game, I think it's generally agreed at this point that this game is too far from the source material as is to try and stop improvements to it, based on arguments that it defies source material.

The only issue I see with this system possibly is how it works with glancing blows; admittedly, I'm not too knowledgeable on how they work, and personally, if AC ranges were expanded this much, I would advocate removing glancing blows on almost hits (Keeping them for THF).

Finally, if this was for some reason seen as too radical a range expansion, it could easily be reduced to a multiplier of 75% to 125%, 90% to 110% etc.

redoubt
02-12-2011, 02:04 PM
Any of these mechanics discussed to "fix" AC need to take into account how you build characters today.

Most people build for DPS and don't worry much about AC. To them, this change is a bonus. They get hit less, take less damage and most likely still hit just as often.

The few folks who do build for AC will get hit more and are not build to take the increased rate of damage. This means the persons who have AC builds are often staring at rerolls or dumping their AC build.

Take a look at your idea with this in mind...

donfilibuster
02-12-2011, 02:51 PM
/not signed
wasn't this idea posted somewhere already?

what the devs forgot is to hand out the corresponding buffs. that is what needs fixing.
on a high magic campaign you do have higher hit power, but you have better buffs and ac options to counter.
there's plenty of spells in the books already, like the greater armor spell.

the issue with ac, besides plain blank monster stats inflation, is that the game is made like a mmo.
in a mmo you are meant to have a tank in the party and that tank be the only one with high ac.
this is not good on d&d, all classes are meant to be able to have some form of defense, no one is forced to play tank.
(e.g. mmo setup is tank, dps, nuker, healer, while d&d party is fighter, rogue, wizard, cleric and roles aren't set in stone)

a for a wider range of rolls, nothing is wrong with a 1 in 20 chance, with DC increments of 5.
it means that if you have the 'good' equipment you are meant to hit and not be hit by the monster no matter the roll.
the roll is for at level, with base gear characters to try to outluck the monster, else you need to go do harder quests.
on epic there's no such thing, you need to be well built to manage the massive bonuses and then luck on top of it.

changing ac to dr isn't good either, the game is about customization and getting rid of ac amounts to have less building options.
and if it has to be done this way there's actual ac variants in d&d for cases like this where ac alone don't cut it.
so no need to reinvent the wheel or make tweaks.

granted, a tweak will work but why settle for a tweak when the roots of the problem go deeper?
remember the high hit inflation was a tweak to begin with, if we keep doing it it's just a race of devs vs. players.

Quarterling
02-12-2011, 04:15 PM
/not signed

It's not broke, no need to fix. The only thing I would like to see done is epic mobs maybe getting a small nerf to their attack.