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View Full Version : Guild Invitation Sigils - Add Confirmation



Sanadil
02-04-2011, 08:47 AM
Scenario: You are bringing a new member into your guild, you mail them, and all their alts, an invitation sigil. The new member only uses half the sigils as they haven't logged those other characters in a while and don't plan to. 1 Weeks later, something happens and that new member gets removed. The now X member, still has half his characters with invitation sigils in their mail, and can still jump into the guild, when you don't want them to.

Fix: Please force a confirmation from the officer that sent the sigil, before making the invitation permanent.

jwdaniels
02-04-2011, 08:49 AM
Better fix - don't send sigils to a player and all of his alts if you don't actually know the person behind the keyboard.

In fact, if you don't know the person why are you sending any invite sigils anyway? Make them actually talk to an officer and run some quests. If they're not willing to do that, they're really not interested in joining your guild.

Lorien_the_First_One
02-04-2011, 08:56 AM
Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of having sigils? If you have an officer on, you don't need to send them, you could just invite them in the first place.

Sanadil
02-04-2011, 08:59 AM
Better fix - don't send sigils to a player and all of his alts if you don't actually know the person behind the keyboard.

In fact, if you don't know the person why are you sending any invite sigils anyway? Make them actually talk to an officer and run some quests. If they're not willing to do that, they're really not interested in joining your guild.


You totally lost the point. Our invitation process runs typically about a month, with a required 3 level 20's. Multiple raids/epics runs with multiple officers and members are required. You can and will still randomly get someone that behaves that entire time, then decides to be a D-Bag right after invitation. Just saying, it happens.

We don't use invitation sigils any longer.

Sanadil
02-04-2011, 09:00 AM
Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of having sigils? If you have an officer on, you don't need to send them, you could just invite them in the first place.

It kind of would, but there's a slight loophole in the system as it stands. If someone has a better idea on how to close it, I'm all ears.

Actually, after thinking about it, no it wouldn't. Their main is on, you send the sigils to all characters. As that person logs them on, the officer that sent it may not be there. The person accepts the sigil, but doesn't fully get brought into the guild until the officer that sent, logs back on to click confirm on each of the toons. While their confirming, the person that accepted may not be on either. This would allow the officer to deny the invite if they so desired. It still fulfills the purpose of the sigil, to invite a person to the guild when the officer isn't on. It just adds an extra step of confirmation to the end of it.

Solmage
02-04-2011, 09:47 AM
You totally lost the point. Our invitation process runs typically about a month, with a required 3 level 20's. Multiple raids/epics runs with multiple officers and members are required. You can and will still randomly get someone that behaves that entire time, then decides to be a D-Bag right after invitation. Just saying, it happens.

We don't use invitation sigils any longer.

Sorry but in this case the one who lost the point is you: The sigils are there only to invite people you can't meet at the given time, not as the main recruitment method. Send ONE sigil to the char's main, and he can then go through the trouble of loading in his alts one by one if he wants them in the guild.

Dysmetria
02-04-2011, 10:23 AM
I thought the sigils were for inviting your own alts. I never considered using them for anyone else, if they want their alt in the guild I make them log in on it.

Sanadil
02-04-2011, 10:28 AM
Sorry but in this case the one who lost the point is you: The sigils are there only to invite people you can't meet at the given time, not as the main recruitment method. Send ONE sigil to the char's main, and he can then go through the trouble of loading in his alts one by one if he wants them in the guild.

How does one lose ones own point when they made it in the first place? hahaha, that is a good one, knee slapper, really ;)

Guild sigils are used for what? To invite people to the guild. I've never seen a dev say only use it ONE time for a characters main, nope, not once. When they were released, it was to allow you to mail an invite to the guild, end of story. If there was a confirmation, it would make adding new people to the guild a million times easier IMO.

In My Opinion, yes the old IMO, there is a possible loophole with them. I'm not here to discuss how they SHOULD be used (just one, a whole bunch, never...), I'm here to say there is a possibility, to allow someone into the guild, when you didn't want to, if you use them, in any way.

Agree, Disagree, IMO (oh my god, their it is again), I've made my opinion on the matter....

jwdaniels
02-04-2011, 10:31 AM
How does one lose ones own point when they made it in the first place? hahaha, that is a good one, knee slapper, really ;)

Guild sigils are used for what? To invite people to the guild. I've never seen a dev say only use it ONE time for a characters main, nope, not once. When they were released, it was to allow you to mail an invite to the guild, end of story. If there was a confirmation, it would make adding new people to the guild a million times easier IMO.

In My Opinion, yes the old IMO, there is a possible loophole with them. I'm not here to discuss how they SHOULD be used (just one, a whole bunch, never...), I'm here to say there is a possibility, to allow someone into the guild, when you didn't want to, if you use them, in any way.

The only possible way to allow someone into the guild when you don't want them in your guild is through human error. Developers can't code out stupid any more than my cleric can heal it.

Sanadil
02-04-2011, 10:36 AM
The only possible way to allow someone into the guild when you don't want them in your guild is through human error. Developers can't code out stupid any more than my cleric can heal it.

Really? Lets try it, I'll make 2 characters on your server. Send me a sigil to each character, I'll accept on 1. Then, just for giggles, lets pretend you boot me from your guild. You kick my one character. Now, I'm not going to tell you when, but at some point, before the mail expires, and little to no people are on in your guild, I'll accept the other one. Is that human error, or a small loophole in a system?

Krelar
02-04-2011, 10:45 AM
How about a timer on mailed sigils? They must be used within say 3 days (or whatever) of being mailed or they expire. If the player is not willing to login in within that time frame they must not have really wanted those characters in the guild yet after all.

Sanadil
02-04-2011, 10:51 AM
How about a timer on mailed sigils? They must be used within say 3 days (or whatever) of being mailed or they expire. If the player is not willing to login in within that time frame they must not have really wanted those characters in the guild yet after all.

Sounds like a good alternative, less coding involved.

jurgandal
02-04-2011, 11:19 AM
You have a couple of peeps here that are lost with your loop hole vint. You're trying to point out something like this might happen and they sit here trying to argue with their point. "Share please" DING!

Illiain
02-04-2011, 11:43 AM
Really? Lets try it, I'll make 2 characters on your server. Send me a sigil to each character, I'll accept on 1. Then, just for giggles, lets pretend you boot me from your guild. You kick my one character. Now, I'm not going to tell you when, but at some point, before the mail expires, and little to no people are on in your guild, I'll accept the other one. Is that human error, or a small loophole in a system?

It sounds like human error by inviting multiple alts at the same time. The system didn't massinvite every character on that account with a single mailing. Invite one at a time by mail and make sure they accept the invitation before inviting new ones, or take the time out of playing to invite each alt personally.

If you don't want the responsibility of being a guild leader and having to take the time out of playing the game for guild business then perhaps you should hand over leadership to someone more willing to do what needs to be done.

jwdaniels
02-04-2011, 11:55 AM
It sounds like human error by inviting multiple alts at the same time. The system didn't massinvite every character on that account with a single mailing. Invite one at a time by mail and make sure they accept the invitation before inviting new ones, or take the time out of playing to invite each alt personally.

If you don't want the responsibility of being a guild leader and having to take the time out of playing the game for guild business then perhaps you should hand over leadership to someone more willing to do what needs to be done.

^This.

jwdaniels
02-04-2011, 11:56 AM
LOL. I wasn't here to discuss how to use it, but you seemed to need an example. Anyway, I stated the loophole, whether you think it is or not is really of no concern to me.

Can you tell me why whether or not I think it's a loophole is any more or less valid than whether or not you think it's a loophole?

We disagree on this, it's that simple.

Sanadil
02-04-2011, 12:40 PM
It sounds like human error by inviting multiple alts at the same time. The system didn't massinvite every character on that account with a single mailing. Invite one at a time by mail and make sure they accept the invitation before inviting new ones, or take the time out of playing to invite each alt personally.

If you don't want the responsibility of being a guild leader and having to take the time out of playing the game for guild business then perhaps you should hand over leadership to someone more willing to do what needs to be done.

I agree with you on the point that single invites and ensuring they came in would work, but that isn't my point. I'm just trying to find a way to help manage large guilds with 100+ people more efficiently. The guild sigil function in theory is a great idea and would facilitate that. In its current form though, there is room for abuse, and requires more time from guild management than its worth.

I run a fan site for DDO, created the Game Guide that 1000's of people use; last time I checked I have over 100,000 downloads of it. I run a guild with 100+ members in it. I feel, and I'm sure my guild members would back me on this, that I'm more than willing to go above and beyond when it comes to doing what needs to be done. The reputation of our guild says a lot about who we are and how its run, ask just about anybody on Thelanis their thoughts of Inferus Sus. I'd rather spend more time leading raids, forming epics, getting people gear, favor for yugo/silver flame, DT Armour, TR schedules, etc.., and handling recruits during the application processes that we have in place, than waiting around to do invites to guild. If there was an easier (note easier, its not that bad as it is now) quick way to do it, I'd be all over it, and I thought others may be too.

Anyway, to those that are trolling this, lets just agree to disagree. No single persons opinion is any less relevant than another. So in closing thank you for your opinions, just because they don't match mine, is good, and adds debate, which is always healthy.