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View Full Version : Remove heighten from cure spells



Chette
01-29-2011, 11:04 AM
As a devine caster I of course have the heighten feat. This feat works wonders for blade barrier, greater command, symbol of persuasion, etc. I turn it on and off depending on the content that I'm in, but typically like to have it either on, or off, for large periods of time, not having to constantly switch it on and off.

This becomes complicated though because heighten currently also applies to heal and cure spells, because these spells can be used offensively against undead. This is immensely frustrating on a devine caster, because 90% of the time I am not using my cure spells offensively. It is unreasonable that while questing/raiding a devine caster must click heighten off every single time they want to cast a heal spell, and then switch it back on if they are offensively casting.

My suggestion is to either:

a. Remove the heighten effect completely from cure and heal spells. This would mean that the DC would be reduced when using these spells offensively and potentially less damage would result, however, the overall result of not wasting spell points when healing oneself or ones party members would be of benefit.

b. Remove the heighten effect when cure and heal spells are targeted upon a party/raid member or friendly NPC, include the effect when spells are targeted upon an enemy. This would be ideal, though I'm not sure if the mechanics exist within the game to incorporate this.

Lorien_the_First_One
01-29-2011, 11:07 AM
It applies to the heal spell, but not the cure spells. This is deliberate and is WAI as discussed previously by the devs.

In general the way metas is applied does need work though, its been discussed many times.

andbr22
01-29-2011, 11:09 AM
OR maybe let us set up at bar somehow (small point) that opens spells options and you can activate what meta magic are used with individual shortcut.

FlyingTurtle
01-29-2011, 11:11 AM
It applies to the heal spell, but not the cure spells. This is deliberate and is WAI as discussed previously by the devs.

In general the way metas is applied does need work though, its been discussed many times.

Yes the specific hotbar button should be configured with each meta on or off, as per NWN. Its been requested so many times I think the devs are deliberately messing with us by not providing it.

Chette
01-29-2011, 11:24 AM
It applies to the heal spell, but not the cure spells.

My mistake. I almost never cast anything other than heal or mass heal, so I'd not noticed.


This is deliberate and is WAI as discussed previously by the devs.

Oh I never said it wasn't deliberate, or WAI. Only that the way it was working was a horrible implementation :)

eonfreon
01-29-2011, 11:28 AM
Yes the specific hotbar button should be configured with each meta on or off, as per NWN. Its been requested so many times I think the devs are deliberately messing with us by not providing it.

I'm pretty sure I've seen a Dev comment that they would like to do it this way. However, it's obviously not something that's easy to do or it would have been done already.
Also I'm sure it's not of the highest priority.
It certainly would be nice to have it able to connect whatever Metas you want to your spells (and to turn it on/off when you don't want it to always work the same way with the same spell; sometimes you want an extended FW, sometimes you don't).

sephiroth1084
01-29-2011, 11:42 AM
It applies to the heal spell, but not the cure spells. This is deliberate and is WAI as discussed previously by the devs.

In general the way metas is applied does need work though, its been discussed many times.
Does it? My one divine is level 6, and I hadn't planned on taking Heighten because I'd heard that it applies to healing spells. Are you sure it doesn't affect cures?

Also, what was the devs' intent with it applying to Heal vs. cure spells?

Shade
01-29-2011, 11:49 AM
Does it? My one divine is level 6, and I hadn't planned on taking Heighten because I'd heard that it applies to healing spells. Are you sure it doesn't affect cures?

Also, what was the devs' intent with it applying to Heal vs. cure spells?

Heal does more DPS - EG: Damage per Spellpoint.

So if your using heal as a offensive spell in say - Ghost of Perdition vs beholder.. Your really best off only using heal, as youd tend to use all your SP anyways.

Ideal strat for him btw: Bestow Curse, (get arcane to symbol of pain for another -4) then Heal. Highest possible DPS in the game vs him, even surpasses melee! (Especially if you full spec and have a ardor VI clicky)

Mass heal can't be heigtened either btw OP.. It's already level 9 heh. Only cure spell that can be heightend is heal, and its intended for undead beholders or other tough undead bosses.

Ideally we could pre-select metas and the devs have heard this suggestion on DDO cast and other forums many times, its just hard to implement so its on a the "maybe, but not actively being worked on" list.

Lorien_the_First_One
01-29-2011, 12:06 PM
Does it? My one divine is level 6, and I hadn't planned on taking Heighten because I'd heard that it applies to healing spells. Are you sure it doesn't affect cures?

Also, what was the devs' intent with it applying to Heal vs. cure spells?

The theory was the cures was that there was no logical reason to heighten them because if you were using them offensively you would just use the next higher cure spell up and get more damage for the same sp. With heal it is already top of the list and thus heighten might have some benefit.

How often does anyone use heal offensively? Not very often. At the same time I almost never turn heighten off on my offensive casters so 99.99% of the time I am wasting sp when using the heal spell.

We do need a new way to deal with metas, several good ones have been suggested over the years as this has never really been a good system.

sephiroth1084
01-29-2011, 12:18 PM
The theory was the cures was that there was no logical reason to heighten them because if you were using them offensively you would just use the next higher cure spell up and get more damage for the same sp. With heal it is already top of the list and thus heighten might have some benefit.

How often does anyone use heal offensively? Not very often. At the same time I almost never turn heighten off on my offensive casters so 99.99% of the time I am wasting sp when using the heal spell.

We do need a new way to deal with metas, several good ones have been suggested over the years as this has never really been a good system.
Hmm...I might have to reconsider my not going with a casting cleric...

Hokiewa
01-29-2011, 12:32 PM
Yes the specific hotbar button should be configured with each meta on or off, as per NWN. Its been requested so many times I think the devs are deliberately messing with us by not providing it.

It's likely pretty difficult to do, though I agree this option should've existed from day one. An additional tab for spellcasters on the character sheet would provide at least a location to manipulate spell "combos". In it's current implementation, it's clunky. Though, being a more efficient spellcaster would likely cut into SP pots sales:D

Farayon
01-29-2011, 12:42 PM
Yes the specific hotbar button should be configured with each meta on or off, as per NWN. Its been requested so many times I think the devs are deliberately messing with us by not providing it.

This.

Noctus
01-29-2011, 12:52 PM
Remove heighten from cure spells

/signed.

Its frustrating to know that in 99.999% of the time you just waste SP without any purpose when you cast a Heal, because constantly re-toogling Heighten on and off is not a viable tactic when questing.

Dandonk
01-29-2011, 12:54 PM
Yes the specific hotbar button should be configured with each meta on or off, as per NWN. Its been requested so many times I think the devs are deliberately messing with us by not providing it.

Yes please, and likely yes.

Chette
01-29-2011, 10:22 PM
Mass heal can't be heigtened either btw OP.. It's already level 9 heh. Only cure spell that can be heightend is heal.

Well aware that a level 9 spell can't be heightened :)

Unfortunately, as I do a lot of soloing the heal spell I use the most often is of course heal. When I have 30 orthons nipping at my toes I don't usually have time to turn heighten off, heal myself, and then turn it on before dropping another blade barrier :(