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View Full Version : Improve Glorious Stand



sephiroth1084
01-29-2011, 10:52 AM
Currently, I, and others I've spoken to, find Glorious Stand (Defender of Siberys III bonus ability) to be incredibly underwhelming and borderline useless due to how its duration, cooldown and benefits interact.

Basically, it's current appeal is as an OH ****! ability, to be activated when a situation goes south, as it provides much better healing and some useful immunities, but since it lasts for only 20 seconds and has a very long cooldown (can't recall exactly, but in the 3-5 minute range) it's difficult to figure out when to use it.

If you use it in a situation that is kind of bad, you may find yourself without it 30 seconds later when things go really bad.

Unlike, say, a Haste or Attack Boost, which has a clear and useful effect for 20 seconds (and basically a 10 second cooldown), activating Glorious Stand may not really do much of anything. This becomes more true as your character becomes better geared, as more HP, healing amp and AC means that, even in a suddenly bad situation, one or two quick heals will probably take care of you without Glorious Stand.

The DR and resistances are very useful, but chances are, anything so dangerous that you want this for 20 seconds, will continue to be so for the next few minutes as well. And the healing amp, while nice, usually isn't going to do much of anything for you over such a short period of time, since you (or whoever is healing you) are unlikely to cycle to a cheaper healing spell, or turn off metamagics, for just those 20 seconds, and while you can afford to go lower on HP before receiving a cure in order to make the healing more efficient, there is only so low you can go before the risk outweighs the reward. Not to mention that this breaks up the rhythm on healing that gets established over a longer fight.

My suggestion, therefore, is to:


Extend the duration of Glorious Stand to about a minute, possibly reducing some of the benefits a little, or
Remove or drastically reduce the cooldown on Glorious Stand, or
Do both.

Keep in mind that Glorious Stand is competing with Divine Righteousness and Divine Might, both of which are rather important: you won't need the benefits of Glorious Stand if you don't have aggro, and you are unlikely to have aggro with lower DPS and hate generation.

For instance, I always run out of turn attempts in VoD when tanking, usually skipping refreshes of either DR or DM in order to save a few for the end of the encounter, and get by in ToD only just barely if DPS for the group is good.

At such a short duration, Glorious Stand would eat up turn attempts very quickly if it were used all the time, and would necessarily hamper the ability of a paladin to hate-tank, so even without the long cooldown and incredibly short duration, it would probably be used only sparingly, but would be far more useful in the situations it seems designed for.

sephiroth1084
03-24-2011, 06:53 PM
Another topic I'd love to see a dev comment on.

Ralmeth
03-25-2011, 02:35 PM
Excellent suggestion. As a capstone for a Paladin Defender of Siberys, it certainly doesn't seem like a capstone as I rarely use it. The only times I use it are:
1) Against a big red named and things start going south this. It's nice but after the timer wears off you're generally still fighting that big red name.
2) I'm at the end of the quest and I use it just because I have it, but don't really need it.
3) If you're surrounded by mobs at a rest shrine and you need to get a rest in.

I think the primary purpose should be #1. I'm okay with the long cooldown, but I think the duration should be increased to 1 minute to make it last a reasonable amount of time.

sephiroth1084
03-25-2011, 03:11 PM
I'd be happy with a 1 min. duration and a long cooldown (2-5 min) or the short duration but almost no cooldown (it is still taking up Turn attempts and depleting your Divine Might/Righteousness pool).

Absolute-Omniscience
03-25-2011, 03:34 PM
Glorious stand is amazing. And 1 minute duration would make it horribly overpowered.

Junts
03-25-2011, 03:59 PM
Glorious stand is godmode with a 10% uptime (30 second duration, 300 second cooldown).

What I think would be better is if Stand was modified to use Remove Disease attempts as its resource the way that some of the hunter of the dead abilities do: the problem with it is that it's feeding on a very competetive resource (turn undeads, that fuel divine mights, divine rightousnesses, and also glorious stand). If it had it's own resource you'd be much more prone to hit it in a particularly difficult fight.

sephiroth1084
03-25-2011, 04:18 PM
Glorious stand is amazing. And 1 minute duration would make it horribly overpowered.
My problem with it now is that I never hit it. If things are going a little badly, there's the thought that they may get worse and I should save it. With such a short duration and huge cooldown its tough to figure out when to use the thing, and it goes wasted much of the time.

As I mentioned in the OP, it's typically too infrequent for healers to adjust, so unless they're down, you're just going to get overhealed as they continue to send you the heals you had been getting before you gained huge healing amp and DR and immunities.

The problem is that it is a defensive ability that is incredibly reactionary in nature, and for which much of the benefit ends up being displaced onto someone else (healers). If you're soloing, or surviving a near-wipe, then it has a pretty significant impact, but how often do you use it at any other time?

If it used a separate cost, as Junts suggested, I'd be more inclined to use it, I guess, but would still feel like it wasn't doing a whole lot. Compare it to even the AC Boost. Typically, you're going to want that extra AC for a whole fight, but even if it is just to bridge an AC gap until you get rebuffed or the party stabilizes or monster dies, you know that you haven't essentially wasted the effect for that battle by activating it before it is absolutely necessary, and the benefit is pretty clear to healers as you just stop taking as much damage as you had been for a little while. Part of GS works like that, but a lot of it doesn't.

Junts
03-25-2011, 04:24 PM
My problem with it now is that I never hit it. If things are going a little badly, there's the thought that they may get worse and I should save it. With such a short duration and huge cooldown its tough to figure out when to use the thing, and it goes wasted much of the time.

As I mentioned in the OP, it's typically too infrequent for healers to adjust, so unless they're down, you're just going to get overhealed as they continue to send you the heals you had been getting before you gained huge healing amp and DR and immunities.

The problem is that it is a defensive ability that is incredibly reactionary in nature, and for which much of the benefit ends up being displaced onto someone else (healers). If you're soloing, or surviving a near-wipe, then it has a pretty significant impact, but how often do you use it at any other time?

If it used a separate cost, as Junts suggested, I'd be more inclined to use it, I guess, but would still feel like it wasn't doing a whole lot. Compare it to even the AC Boost. Typically, you're going to want that extra AC for a whole fight, but even if it is just to bridge an AC gap until you get rebuffed or the party stabilizes or monster dies, you know that you haven't essentially wasted the effect for that battle by activating it before it is absolutely necessary, and the benefit is pretty clear to healers as you just stop taking as much damage as you had been for a little while. Part of GS works like that, but a lot of it doesn't.

One situation where you should habitually hit glorious stand: the second you hear the bats squeal in an elite vod.

I've soloed Suulomades from that point in a party-wipe situation between greaves, 40 pt fire resistance, glorious stand, and self-healing. Stand gives you a stacking 100% healing amp and a stacking 50% absorption of every element, as well as dr/20. It is -god mode- for 30 seconds. If you start to think more about when it's a good idea, you'll start using it more often. Protip: that's usually when someone responsible for healing you, or having aggro, dies. With glorious stand, even a rogue or someone else with zero wand/scroll mastery can solo-heal you during an elite tower for 30 seconds.

You can also combine it with greaves to live through the Inferno without even having to heal yourself between ticks.