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View Full Version : Make Ooze bane weapons out of glass



Valindria
01-19-2011, 02:17 PM
If a weapon has ooze bane (or lesser/greater) it should be immune to the ooze effects.

I was excited to bust out my new Greatclub of Greater Ooze bane. After 1 ooze in epic snitch it was broken beyond use.

Please make ooze bane modify the weapon type to glass or something that won't take damage from ooze.



New ideas here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3753464#post3753464

Eladiun
01-19-2011, 02:29 PM
The damage it takes should be graduate based on Lesser/Bane/Greater with Greater Ooze Bane being glass and immune but I agree right now these weapons are totally useless.

Ganolyn
01-19-2011, 02:30 PM
Yeah it does seem kind of odd that the only useful Greater Ooze Bane weapon against actual oozes is an arrow of GOB (and that can split your target).

I'd even go one further and make it so that Lesser Ooze Bane gets +25% protection from ooze corrosion, Ooze Bane gets +50% and Greater Ooze Bane gets +75% so that Muck's Doom, Muckbane and Everbright don't lose their significance.

slothinator
01-19-2011, 02:31 PM
You can also grab an everbright weapon. They do not take damage from oozes or rusties.

Now an everbright of ooze bane - that would be something. Too bad they are both suffixes.

Taluron
01-19-2011, 02:32 PM
Muck's Doom, Muckbane and Everbright don't lose their significance.

Dont forget Shrieking Star.

Better yet a Throwing Returning Hammer

Ganolyn
01-19-2011, 02:33 PM
Dont forget Shrieking Star

Whoops! :o

mws2970
01-19-2011, 02:36 PM
/signed

Until the change, blunt everbright weps FTW!

Astraghal
01-19-2011, 03:21 PM
Or add a stone of change ritual which imbues weapons with a crystalline coating preventing damage by oozes and rust monsters.

Zeruell
01-19-2011, 03:31 PM
Dont forget Shrieking Star.

Better yet a Throwing Returning Hammer

Or better still: Shining Devastation.

SardaofChaos
01-19-2011, 03:31 PM
Or add a stone of change ritual which imbues weapons with a crystalline coating preventing damage by oozes and rust monsters.

Unless it uses something like 10 of every rare collectible, this may be a bit op.

Valindria
01-19-2011, 04:00 PM
Or add a stone of change ritual which imbues weapons with a crystalline coating preventing damage by oozes and rust monsters.

Turn in 10 recipe # 6 or 15 to the coin collector for a recipe # 21

Recipe # 21 adds Cold Hardened property preventing damage from Ooze.

"Your weapon is now completely encased in ice. It is cold to the touch. The acid damage of oozes slides off your weapon making it immune to the ooze effects."


Then I would have something to do with the giant stack of #6 and #15 I end up with trying to get #5 :)

AndyD47
01-19-2011, 04:04 PM
Living spells are ooze too,so just because it isn't a muckbane doesn't make it useless.

TheKaige
01-19-2011, 04:11 PM
Could just as easily complain that...
No Ghost Touch weapons should have vertigo or shatter...
All Construct Bane weapons should be adamantine
An Outsider Bane should never be it's own alighnment i.e. no axiomatic Lawful Outside Bane weapons
Why the hell are spellcasting stats and fighting stats on the same weapon? +1 Vorpal Khopesh of Power II anybody?

Point being the entire random loot generation system is kinda backasswards; either clean up the entire system (like putting in codes like all ooze bane weapons get everbright and the above suggestions) or don't fix any of it really. Besides, I don't really expect Turbine to do stuff like this, because far less people would spend less time farming named weapons with stats that make sense together.

Astraghal
01-19-2011, 04:14 PM
Unless it uses something like 10 of every rare collectible, this may be a bit op.

Why would this be overpowered?



Besides, I don't really expect Turbine to do stuff like this, because far less people would spend less time farming named weapons with stats that make sense together.

Why is spending less time farming a bad thing?

Kaeldur
01-19-2011, 04:28 PM
Why would this be overpowered?

Because you could get your favorite weapon and protect it from oozes. Then the typical annoying monster is just a weak slow slime. Because the big deal of oozes isn't that they're tough (cause they aren't), it's cause you have to swap weapons and beat on them with a subpar weapon, compensating for their relatively low hp...


Why is spending less time farming a bad thing?

It would be awesome if we got less useless weapons... But there are some that seem useless, but for certain flavor builds are actually quite useful... Still there could easily be some sort of filter.

Less time farming could be bad for ... um... ?? Maybe to get people spending time in the game, because once you get all the items you want there isn't anything left in the game for you to do...

When I stop to think about that I wonder... we farm epic stuff to be more powerful for... what? To farm more epic stuff? This game makes no sense anymore lol... At least in Lineage II we used to farm to get stronger for PvP and Castle Sieges...

morticianjohn
01-19-2011, 04:34 PM
Could just as easily complain that...
No Ghost Touch weapons should have vertigo or shatter...
All Construct Bane weapons should be adamantine
An Outsider Bane should never be it's own alighnment i.e. no axiomatic Lawful Outside Bane weapons
Why the hell are spellcasting stats and fighting stats on the same weapon? +1 Vorpal Khopesh of Power II anybody?

Point being the entire random loot generation system is kinda backasswards; either clean up the entire system (like putting in codes like all ooze bane weapons get everbright and the above suggestions) or don't fix any of it really. Besides, I don't really expect Turbine to do stuff like this, because far less people would spend less time farming named weapons with stats that make sense together.

None of those examples are useless. I know some clerics and FHA use khopesh. I currently have a character equipped with a ghost touch club that has bone breaking. I like it cause I can use it on multiple types of enemies like rust monsters so I don't carry a rust monster specific weapon. Anyway my point here is that even without fixing the system you are talking about there are things they can do to fix this problem. One fix that I will suggest is to remove ooze bane from the system. Granted the OP is asking for too much by making the system less random so a good fix for this problem would be to remove the useless ability. (ok maybe useful on living spells but I still think this ability should be removed)

Valindria
01-19-2011, 04:36 PM
Could just as easily complain that...
No Ghost Touch weapons should have vertigo or shatter...
All Construct Bane weapons should be adamantine
An Outsider Bane should never be it's own alighnment i.e. no axiomatic Lawful Outside Bane weapons
Why the hell are spellcasting stats and fighting stats on the same weapon? +1 Vorpal Khopesh of Power II anybody?

Point being the entire random loot generation system is kinda backasswards; either clean up the entire system (like putting in codes like all ooze bane weapons get everbright and the above suggestions) or don't fix any of it really. Besides, I don't really expect Turbine to do stuff like this, because far less people would spend less time farming named weapons with stats that make sense together.

It's not the same thing. I am not saying adjust the random loot because I get ghost touch of vertigo. I am saying an weapon that excels at killing oozes (ooze bane suffix) should not be take the ooze damage.

The whole "these items are worthless" is a different discussion.

SardaofChaos
01-19-2011, 04:39 PM
Could just as easily complain that...
No Ghost Touch weapons should have vertigo or shatter...
All Construct Bane weapons should be adamantine
An Outsider Bane should never be it's own alighnment i.e. no axiomatic Lawful Outside Bane weapons
Why the hell are spellcasting stats and fighting stats on the same weapon? +1 Vorpal Khopesh of Power II anybody?

Point being the entire random loot generation system is kinda backasswards; either clean up the entire system (like putting in codes like all ooze bane weapons get everbright and the above suggestions) or don't fix any of it really. Besides, I don't really expect Turbine to do stuff like this, because far less people would spend less time farming named weapons with stats that make sense together.

The point about having ooze bane weapons be glass is so they don't break when fighting oozes, not because they don't bypass DR. All those other weapons aren't useless, the only example you gave that is even annoying would be vertigo ghost touch weapons.

And yeah, you can use an ooze bane weapon on living spells, but that's kind of asking to be instakilled if you don't have high self healing capabilities or aren't doing it with a healer. First time I went in the subterrane on my lvl 16 monk, got hit by one of the spells for something around 350 damage. Taking into account improved evasion, that's 700 damage for most chars. Granted, it was probably a critical but it's still far better to use stat weakening weapons in there. Not sure how well they can be killed with magic, as I've never tried.

Templarion
01-19-2011, 04:41 PM
Now an everbright of ooze bane - that would be something. Too bad they are both suffixes.

Exactly. How about making Everbright a prefix? Like Everbright Light Mace of Greater Ooze Bane? I don't think that sounds even stupid.

morticianjohn
01-19-2011, 04:44 PM
It's not the same thing. I am not saying adjust the random loot because I get ghost touch of vertigo. I am saying an weapon that excels at killing oozes (ooze bane suffix) should not be take the ooze damage.

The whole "these items are worthless" is a different discussion.

Bane is a specific ability used by multiple types of enemies. You can't tack on any abilities to that ability without changing the way the whole thing works. You are in fact requesting that ooze bane weapons get another ability which requires a fix in the randomness of the ooze bane appearance

SardaofChaos
01-19-2011, 04:52 PM
Exactly. How about making Everbright a prefix? Like Everbright Light Mace of Greater Ooze Bane? I don't think that sounds even stupid.
Actually, this sounds much better than "of Everbright" because Everbright is a horrible name for a spell. Everbright what? Either make it a prefix or tweak the name for the spell, doesn't matter if that's directly from source books.


Bane is a specific ability used by multiple types of enemies. You can't tack on any abilities to that ability without changing the way the whole thing works. You are in fact requesting that ooze bane weapons get another ability which requires a fix in the randomness of the ooze bane appearance

Not sure how this changes the randomness at all. It would simply mean that if ooze bane is tacked on to a weapon, the weapon material is altered to be glass. Alternatively, if the non-material change is implemented, it would just need a modifier put on the amount of damage oozes do to the weapon. Either one would need more coding, but the random nature of the weapon and ability would not be changed a bit.

Valindria
01-19-2011, 05:00 PM
Bane is a specific ability used by multiple types of enemies. You can't tack on any abilities to that ability without changing the way the whole thing works. You are in fact requesting that ooze bane weapons get another ability which requires a fix in the randomness of the ooze bane appearance

I don't want them to have another ability, just not take damage. Making ooze bane = glass seems like a good solution for the problem. Is there any advantage to glass over wood? It's not a DR thing. Ozze would still split if you used non-blunt. They would still damage gear. I am not sure what you are arguing other than semantics.

If it makes you feel better I could add I propose 2 things:

1. Ooze bane weapons do not take ooze damge
2. Living Spells be defined as some thing other than Ooze.

morticianjohn
01-19-2011, 05:01 PM
Not sure how this changes the randomness at all. It would simply mean that if ooze bane is tacked on to a weapon, the weapon material is altered to be glass. Alternatively, if the non-material change is implemented, it would just need a modifier put on the amount of damage oozes do to the weapon. Either one would need more coding, but the random nature of the weapon and ability would not be changed a bit.

Now I have an even bigger problem with your suggestion as this would make muck's doom and everbright weapons useless. In terms of the random factor the fact that ooze bane would only drop on glass weapons is removing the random element of any ability dropping on any weapon.

Valindria
01-19-2011, 05:04 PM
Now I have an even bigger problem with your suggestion as this would make muck's doom and everbright weapons useless. In terms of the random factor the fact that ooze bane would only drop on glass weapons is removing the random element of any ability dropping on any weapon.

Everbright would still have charges of blind.

Edit:
A ML 2 weapon should be useless at 20. As of now instead of a ML 2 weapon being useless I have a HOrc with a useless ML ~14-16 greatclub of greater ooze bane.

I know you are aguring just to argue, but Everbright could be changed to have a % to blind target on hit/crit like a weak version of radience.

Xyfiel
01-19-2011, 05:09 PM
My ooze/rusty killer of choice, and it is BTA before upgrade

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Weapon:Dreamspitter

+5 two hander made of glass and with level draining fun(cubes!)

Veriden
01-19-2011, 05:20 PM
An Outsider Bane should never be it's own alighnment i.e. no axiomatic Lawful Outside Bane weapons


DDO Doesn't taken into account how magical weapons are actually made. No crafting wizard would ever make a weapon like this or items like: proof against poison ring of underwater action for war forged only. Ddo doesn't use the rule of if it's unsensible re-roll they just throw a bunch of **** together and go with it. This is why they should let us craft our own things especially if we roll a wizard and waste the feats for item crafting. (which would make it fairly difficult to level later with out meta-magics intheir place. Unless you have friends willing to tote your gimp arse around)

morticianjohn
01-19-2011, 05:34 PM
Everbright would still have charges of blind.

Edit:
A ML 2 weapon should be useless at 20. As of now instead of a ML 2 weapon being useless I have a HOrc with a useless ML ~14-16 greatclub of greater ooze bane.

I know you are aguring just to argue, but Everbright could be changed to have a % to blind target on hit/crit like a weak version of radience.

I don't argue just to argue. If you look at my posts in past suggestion threads I'm always going to give a suggestion a chance. While I would love for something to be done about the problem that you are having I don't see how they can call things random if the ability always comes on glass. As others have mentioned if they are going to fix this one specific case why not fix them all and call it a semi-random loot generator.

As others have mentioned there are things you can get to fight ooze in epics and there is no point in making those weapons obsolete. I think that simply removing ooze from the list of potential abilities would end any complaints that people have. Of course theyll still complain about their ghost touch scimitar of vertigo but what can you do?

QuantumFX
01-19-2011, 05:37 PM
Personally, I wish the Bane suffix just simply made a weapon immune to durability damage when it hit’s the target it’s bane is meant for.

danielost
01-19-2011, 07:52 PM
i always looked at the weapon damage as being done by hit the ground with all of your strength, since an ooze is supposedly a single cell.

Twerpp
01-19-2011, 08:33 PM
I have a greater ooze bane greatclub and I love it. Who cares if you have to repair it?

And if you start making demands that this particular randomly generated loot needs to make sense, then it brings too much other stuff to light by the same reason. Then all of a sudden, it's not even randomly generated loot anymore.

FlyingTurtle
01-19-2011, 08:35 PM
Instead of making everbright a prefix (which would be a programming nightmare and require conversion of all existing weapons somehow), devs could make another prefix, "rustproof". Then you rolls your dice and takes your chances, but then at least it won't be 100% of oozebanes are useless, it would just be like 98%, with the last 2% being "Rustproof of Ooze Bane" which would fetch nice prices on the AH. Of course then getting a rustproof weapon of everbright would be a bit of a bummer.

DarkSim87
01-19-2011, 08:54 PM
I think the answer is simple. Make a new material type for random drops. (ie. u have a chance of finding Glass weapons or Glassteel weapons even) Then everyone can farm for glass weapons with Ooze Bane. Make the named ooze weapons more powerful for their level to compensate for rarity.

t0r012
01-19-2011, 09:00 PM
want ooze banes that don't take damage? grab some handwraps of Xoozebane

SardaofChaos
01-19-2011, 09:30 PM
Now I have an even bigger problem with your suggestion as this would make muck's doom and everbright weapons useless. In terms of the random factor the fact that ooze bane would only drop on glass weapons is removing the random element of any ability dropping on any weapon.

You're not listening. This is not a suggestion to only make ooze bane an option for weapons that spawn as glass. This is a suggestion to make weapons that happen to spawn with ooze bane on them glass after the fact. This is still any ability dropping on any weapon. Saying otherwise is like saying everbright isn't random because it always comes on weapons that don't take damage from oozes or rust monsters.

TheKaige
01-19-2011, 09:39 PM
DDO Doesn't taken into account how magical weapons are actually made. No crafting wizard would ever make a weapon like this or items like: proof against poison ring of underwater action for war forged only. Ddo doesn't use the rule of if it's unsensible re-roll they just throw a bunch of **** together and go with it. This is why they should let us craft our own things especially if we roll a wizard and waste the feats for item crafting. (which would make it fairly difficult to level later with out meta-magics intheir place. Unless you have friends willing to tote your gimp arse around)

I'd love a crafting system and posted an idea about it about a year ago for random loot. Point I'm making is the complaint should either be aimed at the entire system or not at all. No point in complaining about 1 particular issue.

And the question as to why less farming would be a bad thing, look up how video game designers attempt to get you hooked to their product; farming for a random drop item is pretty much the trump card of most all videogame designers to keep their customers playing; I don't like being the hamster on the wheel, and I'm sure no one else does either, but you have to consider these things when asking Turbine to make a change to the game.

danielost
01-19-2011, 10:50 PM
want ooze banes that don't take damage? grab some handwraps of Xoozebane

i use return thrown weapons, of course daggers and axes have other problems used this way.

Valindria
01-20-2011, 10:32 AM
Personally, I wish the Bane suffix just simply made a weapon immune to durability damage when it hit’s the target it’s bane is meant for.

I'd be fine with that.


I have a greater ooze bane greatclub and I love it. Who cares if you have to repair it?

And if you start making demands that this particular randomly generated loot needs to make sense, then it brings too much other stuff to light by the same reason. Then all of a sudden, it's not even randomly generated loot anymore.

I am ok with repairing it from normal damage. The issue is killing 1-2 oozes in Epic Snitch damages the weapon so much it "breaks".



P.S. Thanks for the dreamspitter tip. I am already after one but being made of glass is a extra benefit.

Warhulk
01-20-2011, 11:09 AM
This is my preferred ooze beater
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/8805/screenshot00001lg.jpg

Memnir
01-20-2011, 11:14 AM
/not signed

After all, not all Construct Bane weapons are made out of Adamantine, right? Nor should they be. We have a few specialized glass weapons for oozes in the game, and I think that is sufficient. If you want something better - Everbright of Acid weapons work just fine on oozes. If not that, bind the ooze beater if you are afraid of it taking too much damage.

The game has many options for fighting oozes. We don't need to start easy-buttoning Bane weaps.

Lorien_the_First_One
01-20-2011, 11:24 AM
/not signed

After all, not all Construct Bane weapons are made out of Adamantine, right? Nor should they be. We have a few specialized glass weapons for oozes in the game, and I think that is sufficient. If you want something better - Everbright of Acid weapons work just fine on oozes. If not that, bind the ooze beater if you are afraid of it taking too much damage.

The game has many options for fighting oozes. We don't need to start easy-buttoning Bane weaps.

I remember many moons ago pulling my first Greater Ooze Bane. A dwarven axe. It had shock on it too. Great for splitting oozes and killing the little pieces for the first 2 minutes until it was broken :p

Sillk
01-20-2011, 11:29 AM
how about removing the ooze bane from the loot tables.

I don't think it's even possible to have a randomly created item that is ooze bane and everbright. It might be nice if you could get one.

Making them glass, however, would make them useful ONLY against oozes. Try beating up an Earth Elemental with a muckbane sometime....

Ooze, in this game, is meant to break your stuff. And the developers try to stick them in places where you end up fighting multiple monsters with ooze in the middle of it (like Threnal). Then when you get to Rainbow in the Dark... they decided to put Rusties in there for the same purpose.

It's an obvious ploy... and after about the 4th or 5th dungeon... not very creative or fun.

Sirea
01-20-2011, 11:29 AM
I am ok with repairing it from normal damage. The issue is killing 1-2 oozes in Epic Snitch damages the weapon so much it "breaks".

Wait, what? You actually hit those things? Just use the fire trap on them a few times and roast them.

Valindria
01-20-2011, 01:59 PM
Wait, what? You actually hit those things? Just use the fire trap on them a few times and roast them.

There are a few in tunnels out of the range of the fire traps. I still think there is value to make ooze bane not take extra ooze damage.

Lorien_the_First_One
01-20-2011, 02:03 PM
how about removing the ooze bane from the loot tables.

Why? It works perfectly fine on living spells.

andbr22
01-20-2011, 02:20 PM
Tome of untold legend you can exchange for +5 blunt, everbright mace, impact, sun burst (on critical(10%) 12k6 to oozes if they fail reflex save (we all know that oozes are nimble)).

SardaofChaos
01-20-2011, 03:15 PM
/not signed

After all, not all Construct Bane weapons are made out of Adamantine, right? Nor should they be. We have a few specialized glass weapons for oozes in the game, and I think that is sufficient. If you want something better - Everbright of Acid weapons work just fine on oozes. If not that, bind the ooze beater if you are afraid of it taking too much damage.

The game has many options for fighting oozes. We don't need to start easy-buttoning Bane weaps.

Construct bane weapons don't break after hitting constructs a couple times, even if you have insanely bad luck with the RNG. Nor would making ooze bane weapons out of glass make them do more damage to certain types of oozes. Try and make arguments that are related to the topic please.

Sillk
01-20-2011, 03:40 PM
Why? It works perfectly fine on living spells.

You fight them toe to toe.... i mean toe to mush?

NaturalHazard
01-20-2011, 03:41 PM
I got a glass bane weapon, in fact you find them at any bar its called a glass bottle of prick/**** head bane, and it works really well 2 :D

donfilibuster
01-20-2011, 05:21 PM
How about a coating of kobold blood? the kobold review states that oozes dislike kobold flavor :P

For now the only option for GOB is handwraps since they won't take damage.

Memnir
01-20-2011, 05:55 PM
Construct bane weapons don't break after hitting constructs a couple times, even if you have insanely bad luck with the RNG. Nor would making ooze bane weapons out of glass make them do more damage to certain types of oozes. Try and make arguments that are related to the topic please.
And?
As I said, other options beyond making all ooze bane weapons glass do exist. And, they are perfectly viable and make much more sense then giving that particular weapon group a special property. If they did - then Everbright would be utterly obsolete. Why would the Devs take extraordinary measures to boost one weapon attribute when it would kill another? Seems like robbing Peter to pay Paul... and pretty unnecessarily in this case.

Perhaps a better route may be to ask the Devs to reevaluate the degree to which oozes damage weapons.

Even if you don't like or agree with my point, it is on topic. So dismount that high horse, please. :)

Ganolyn
01-20-2011, 06:01 PM
And?
As I said, other options beyond making all ooze bane weapons glass do exist. And, they are perfectly viable and make much more sense then giving that particular weapon group a special property. If they did - then Everbright would be utterly obsolete. Why would the Devs take extraordinary measures to boost one weapon attribute when it would kill another?

Which is why I proposed a stepped system that never gets as good as EB or actual glass weapons.

ganondalf
01-20-2011, 06:08 PM
How about a coating of kobold blood? the kobold review states that oozes dislike kobold flavor :P

For now the only option for GOB is handwraps since they won't take damage.

That's just sick.

Talon_Moonshadow
01-20-2011, 07:54 PM
I Bound and Attuned my Qstaff of GOB at the stone of change in the market: no permanent damage. :)
Might actually do thr Adamantine Ritual on it too someday.


Oh, and my Mnk really likes his handwraps of GOB.

AltheaSteelrain
01-20-2011, 07:57 PM
You fight them toe to toe.... i mean toe to mush?

Fighting head on Living Spells makes bards look good to a cowering barb refusing to help :P

SardaofChaos
01-20-2011, 09:19 PM
And?
As I said, other options beyond making all ooze bane weapons glass do exist. And, they are perfectly viable and make much more sense then giving that particular weapon group a special property. If they did - then Everbright would be utterly obsolete. Why would the Devs take extraordinary measures to boost one weapon attribute when it would kill another? Seems like robbing Peter to pay Paul... and pretty unnecessarily in this case.

Perhaps a better route may be to ask the Devs to reevaluate the degree to which oozes damage weapons.

Even if you don't like or agree with my point, it is on topic. So dismount that high horse, please. :)

So what do you think happens when you hit a rust monster with a glass weapon? Rusties are pretty hard, that glass is going to shatter pretty quickly. Everbright will still be the weapon of choice for those who consolidate their inventories. Assuming they even use a melee weapon to fight oozes in the first place, and not say a throwing weapon or their fists or spells.

GeneralDiomedes
01-20-2011, 09:49 PM
I wasn't aware that killing oozes was such a hot button issue, or even worth starting a thread over.

My feeling is: please leave the relative paucity of uber ooze beaters alone, it adds variety to a game that can't afford to lose any. Also, rarity is cool.

doubledge
01-20-2011, 11:21 PM
was fine wit the thread untill the kobold blood part.

/signed for the glass

/unsigned for the kobold blood

kobold are friends!

[see sig]

Memnir
01-21-2011, 12:48 AM
So what do you think happens when you hit a rust monster with a glass weapon? Rusties are pretty hard, that glass is going to shatter pretty quickly.You'd think so - but you'd be wrong. I know a lot of people who use Muckbanes on Rusties just fine. I happen to be one of them till I get a better beater.

So again, the idea makes little sense unless all Bane weapons were to be given some form of bonus to make them more desirable to combat their given Bane: adamantine for Construct, metaline for Aberration and Outsider, bleeding for any of the humanoid bane weapons... etc.

And I just don't see the Devs doing that, do you?

Yes, oozes eat weapons quickly. And the Devs accommodated for that by giving us a handful of special glass or crystal weapons to compensate. They also gave us Everbright to further help. We can also bind any weapon we want in the Stone of Change so it won't be perma-damaged... and ooze beaters are a great choice for this. I don't think it'd be wise or even necessary for them to give this one Bane weapon an additional boost when we already have a lot of options to combat one creature type.

Still /not signed.

Robai
01-21-2011, 03:43 AM
Made some list here:
The best weapons against Oozes and Rust monsters (http://appliedmath.elementfx.com/DDO/Weapons_for_Oozes_and_Rust_Monsters.htm)

morticianjohn
01-21-2011, 06:24 AM
While sometimes this game gets away from the source (P&P dungeons and dragons) I don't think that there would be enough support to change the bane mechanic. If you throw out the source then changing the bane mechanic to include that weapons would be damaged less when attacking the appropriate creature type then I would totally get behind that. IMHO the game started from D&D rules and slightly changing or modifying those rules to make the game translate better into online gaming is a good idea at this point in the game's history. After all pen and paper dungeons and dragons changes frequently as well so it's not like you're getting away from the core of the game (unfortunately I see people complaining about this all the time which is really unfair but that's beside the point).

Zeruell
01-21-2011, 09:21 AM
Ooze, in this game, is meant to break your stuff. And the developers try to stick them in places where you end up fighting multiple monsters with ooze in the middle of it (like Threnal). Then when you get to Rainbow in the Dark... they decided to put Rusties in there for the same purpose.

It's an obvious ploy... and after about the 4th or 5th dungeon... not very creative or fun.

Your mileage will vary, here. I actually enjoy being able, even encouraged, to pull out something other than Greensteels every once in a while. At the very least, it makes soloing the Dreaming Dark end fight a little less monotonous.

SardaofChaos
01-21-2011, 02:01 PM
You'd think so - but you'd be wrong. I know a lot of people who use Muckbanes on Rusties just fine. I happen to be one of them till I get a better beater.

So again, the idea makes little sense unless all Bane weapons were to be given some form of bonus to make them more desirable to combat their given Bane: adamantine for Construct, metaline for Aberration and Outsider, bleeding for any of the humanoid bane weapons... etc.

And I just don't see the Devs doing that, do you?

Yes, oozes eat weapons quickly. And the Devs accommodated for that by giving us a handful of special glass or crystal weapons to compensate. They also gave us Everbright to further help. We can also bind any weapon we want in the Stone of Change so it won't be perma-damaged... and ooze beaters are a great choice for this. I don't think it'd be wise or even necessary for them to give this one Bane weapon an additional boost when we already have a lot of options to combat one creature type.

Still /not signed.

Okay, I'll retract that point since rusties apparently don't count as hard. I know whenever I accidentally swung at a kobold a couple times while killing oozes my Muckbane took a fair bit of damage.

And no, you still don't need to give other bane weapons bonuses because they're not absolutely useless against their intended foes. They're not as often used against their foes, true, but that is because as often as not your main weapon will do just as much damage to them. Oozes, however, eat the very weapons that were created specifically to kill them, with very few exceptions that are all hard coded in. Just because you can make it not take permanent damage doesn't make it more worthwhile than using something else that doesn't have a chance of breaking mid quest. There is a reason that the most common advice given about oozes is to keep a couple trash clubs in order to beat on them with.

Astraghal
01-21-2011, 02:29 PM
What I would like to see is the introduction of a new raid boss with the ooze classification (like a living spell, not weapon destroying), that we can covet the ooze bane type weapons for use against.

Scortius
01-21-2011, 02:46 PM
Could just as easily complain that...
No Ghost Touch weapons should have vertigo or shatter...
All Construct Bane weapons should be adamantine
An Outsider Bane should never be it's own alighnment i.e. no axiomatic Lawful Outside Bane weapons
Why the hell are spellcasting stats and fighting stats on the same weapon? +1 Vorpal Khopesh of Power II anybody?

Point being the entire random loot generation system is kinda backasswards; either clean up the entire system (like putting in codes like all ooze bane weapons get everbright and the above suggestions) or don't fix any of it really. Besides, I don't really expect Turbine to do stuff like this, because far less people would spend less time farming named weapons with stats that make sense together.

Actually, construct-bane weapons should all be adamantine. OR the Adamantine ritual at the Stone of Change could actually make things count as adamantine. The Glass ritual (or whatever) could be similarly expensive (i.e. takes some actual farming work, but its not a huge drag to go and get the stuff if you want it)

Melee Weapon of Power II works nice for Rangers, Bards and Pally, and a bunch of multiclass builds that have some SP. I was laughing at a Full plate of Wizardy the other day when someone pointed that out to me.

Loromir
01-21-2011, 02:56 PM
Could just as easily complain that...
Why the hell are spellcasting stats and fighting stats on the same weapon? +1 Vorpal Khopesh of Power II anybody?



For what is it worth, A Ranger or Paladin might find this useful.

Memnir
01-21-2011, 03:12 PM
And no, you still don't need to give other bane weapons bonuses because they're not absolutely useless against their intended foes.Neither are Ooze Bane weapons, unless the bonus damage stopped working while I was not paying attention. The do work - the weapon-eating is a side-effect, and one that is ridiculously amped up by the Devs. If the Devs would tone down the corrosive effect oozes have on weapons, I think the community would be very appreciative, and would not diminish the special weapons already in the game and make regular ooze bane weapons more functional.

The problem is not that ooze bane weapons are not all made of glass... it's that the damage to weapons taken from oozes is just stupid high.

And, were we to give Ooze Bane weapons a boost to compensate for that mistake on the Devs' behalf... it becomes easier to justify a special property beyond extra damage for every Bane weapon. And that leads to power-creep, which tends to be an odious thing.


I agree that oozes eat weapons at a silly rate. I just don't agree that this is the fix for it. The Devs had to code the corrosive damage... and it'd be easier to scale that back then to code a special attribute to only one type of bane weapon, I'd imagine.

Until then, options exist. Hell, if nothing else try to find a pair of acid handwraps of True Law/Chaos. Those eat slimes alive, and take next to no damage from them ever.

Zeruell
01-21-2011, 03:38 PM
Until then, options exist. Hell, if nothing else try to find a pair of acid handwraps of True Law/Chaos. Those eat slimes alive, and take next to no damage from them ever.

True Law and Chaos are prefix effects, like Acid.

No argument about the spirit of your post, though.

Memnir
01-21-2011, 04:05 PM
True Law and Chaos are prefix effects, like Acid.

No argument about the spirit of your post, though.Sorry, that was supposed to be Acid or True Law/Chaos... :o

Valindria
01-21-2011, 04:49 PM
And, were we to give Ooze Bane weapons a boost to compensate for that mistake on the Devs' behalf... it becomes easier to justify a special property beyond extra damage for every Bane weapon. And that leads to power-creep, which tends to be an odious thing.



Really? So if they make ooze bane weapons not take ooze damage or take it at a really low rate then they have to add to all other bane items? Give me a break. I hate arguments like that. If they make ooze bane better than they'll have to give us free green steel to help with damaging all non-oozes because obviously the ooze bane will become way OP in comparison.

Seems like I always get counter argument for suggestion in the following form:

"I'm an old player and I don't like change"
"Just do X instead because it's an option"
"Changing X means Y and Z have to be changed too"


So my counter to your lower ooze damage to weapons ("it's that the damage to weapons taken from oozes is just stupid high."

Is if they do they then oozes become a trivial monster. And I am old player and I don't like change :)

Memnir
01-21-2011, 05:44 PM
And I am old player and I don't like change :)Okay, so then we agree that the Bane weapons shouldn't change.

Glad we cleared the air.

Valindria
01-22-2011, 02:30 PM
Okay, so then we agree that the Bane weapons shouldn't change.

Glad we cleared the air.

well played sir.

SardaofChaos
01-22-2011, 11:29 PM
Neither are Ooze Bane weapons, unless the bonus damage stopped working while I was not paying attention. The do work - the weapon-eating is a side-effect, and one that is ridiculously amped up by the Devs. If the Devs would tone down the corrosive effect oozes have on weapons, I think the community would be very appreciative, and would not diminish the special weapons already in the game and make regular ooze bane weapons more functional.

The problem is not that ooze bane weapons are not all made of glass... it's that the damage to weapons taken from oozes is just stupid high.

And, were we to give Ooze Bane weapons a boost to compensate for that mistake on the Devs' behalf... it becomes easier to justify a special property beyond extra damage for every Bane weapon. And that leads to power-creep, which tends to be an odious thing.


I agree that oozes eat weapons at a silly rate. I just don't agree that this is the fix for it. The Devs had to code the corrosive damage... and it'd be easier to scale that back then to code a special attribute to only one type of bane weapon, I'd imagine.

Until then, options exist. Hell, if nothing else try to find a pair of acid handwraps of True Law/Chaos. Those eat slimes alive, and take next to no damage from them ever.

Mmkay then. I will accept that it's just not the best solution. I still don't agree that implementing it would be as overpowered as you say it is though.

Going to try and keep this as simple as possible for my own sake: I use other bane weapons(when I don't have anything that vastly overpowers the bane additive) because they work. I will not use ooze bane weapons because they have a high chance of breaking when using them. If this was implemented, would I start using ooze bane weapons? Probably not, because an everbright weapon will also work on rusties, won't break faster when hitting things that aren't oozes(like glass weapons should, even if they don't currently for whatever stupid reason), and usually are more able to be found.

Valindria
01-24-2011, 09:49 AM
Mmkay then. I will accept that it's just not the best solution. I still don't agree that implementing it would be as overpowered as you say it is though.

Going to try and keep this as simple as possible for my own sake: I use other bane weapons(when I don't have anything that vastly overpowers the bane additive) because they work. I will not use ooze bane weapons because they have a high chance of breaking when using them. If this was implemented, would I start using ooze bane weapons? Probably not, because an everbright weapon will also work on rusties, won't break faster when hitting things that aren't oozes(like glass weapons should, even if they don't currently for whatever stupid reason), and usually are more able to be found.

If the ooze bane weapon was made out of wood then you could use it on rusties as well.

Talon_Moonshadow
01-24-2011, 11:10 AM
Neither are Ooze Bane weapons, unless the bonus damage stopped working while I was not paying attention. The do work - the weapon-eating is a side-effect, and one that is ridiculously amped up by the Devs. If the Devs would tone down the corrosive effect oozes have on weapons, I think the community would be very appreciative, and would not diminish the special weapons already in the game and make regular ooze bane weapons more functional.

The problem is not that ooze bane weapons are not all made of glass... it's that the damage to weapons taken from oozes is just stupid high.

And, were we to give Ooze Bane weapons a boost to compensate for that mistake on the Devs' behalf... it becomes easier to justify a special property beyond extra damage for every Bane weapon. And that leads to power-creep, which tends to be an odious thing.


I agree that oozes eat weapons at a silly rate. I just don't agree that this is the fix for it. The Devs had to code the corrosive damage... and it'd be easier to scale that back then to code a special attribute to only one type of bane weapon, I'd imagine.

Until then, options exist. Hell, if nothing else try to find a pair of acid handwraps of True Law/Chaos. Those eat slimes alive, and take next to no damage from them ever.

I agree with you. And have thought so for awhile now.
But if it wasn't so high, do you think players would even bother changing weps?
Some people don't even do that now...
(I love it when a hirling's weapon get broken.....noob. :D )

I would like them to (further) reduce the number of places where oozes are mixed in with other monster types.
(that original dev who put Zombies and Oozes together was just sadistic!)

I think they should add crystal as a "metal" type. It would benefit against Quori as well as oozes.

SardaofChaos
01-24-2011, 04:14 PM
If the ooze bane weapon was made out of wood then you could use it on rusties as well.

AFAIK oozes still eat wood.

Valindria
01-24-2011, 04:39 PM
AFAIK oozes still eat wood.

Yes. Though if a change was made to make Ooze Bane not take damage from ooze, then a wooden ooze bane would work for both.

Valindria
04-27-2011, 04:07 PM
NECRO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yep Ooze bane still worthless.

New ideas here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3753464#post3753464