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View Full Version : Request a change to Elite Unlocks from the DDO store



cdemeritt
01-15-2011, 08:47 AM
The current Elite Difficulty Unlock Allows you to open any (1) quest on Elite, once for 95 TP. If in the process of running that quest, someone bogies the quest so bad that you can't complete, and you need to restart it, you can no longer open it on elite. Thankfully, there are very few quests that can go that badly, but none the less, there are some.

Ok, lets look at the target Audience: VIP don't need this, as they get this as part of being VIP, F2P are unlikely going to have TP enough to be interested in this over more content, leaving the primary group interested in this item being Premium members...Who are probably on a TP budget, and saving points for more important things....

What is the most common reason one would want to unlock elite before normal or hard? Well while there are some quests where unlocking Elite first will net more XP (shadowcrypt anyone), The most likely reason someone would want this item is favor runs... Running long and time consuming quests such as Miseries Peak or Proof is in the Poison N-H-E takes a significant amount of time, even when many levels over the quest. Spending points to unlock Elite for each of these individually quickly becomes cost prohibitive. (can you imagine the cost to unlock The Catacombs)

My thought: Change the nature of the beast. Make it 3 items instead of 1:

1st item: The one Shot opener deal like we have now, but for 15-20 tp each. At 95 TP, it is cheaper/easier to just put up an LFM or beg in Chat windows for a VIP to open for me... (with Share and being able to open the quest without the person being right there, it doesn't take much time out of the VIP's time to help out) But at 20 tp, not having to ask for help would be an option.

2nd item: a 3hr pass to elite: Like the XP, loot, or other boosts, a 3hr item that allows one to open any quest they are qualified to open so that you can run a chain quest such as Tangleroot or the Catacombs on Elite... I'd pay 150 tp for this

3rd item: a 6hr pass: like above, only lasts 6 hrs, for those favor grind nights... That would be worth 250 tp to me...


Don't know... Seems like a good idea to me anyways...

Hordo
01-15-2011, 08:51 AM
It would definitely be a moneymaker. :rolleyes:

sirgog
01-15-2011, 09:02 AM
I'd buy 3-6 hour ones, if they were costed similarly to 10% XP pots, or maybe even a bit higher.

Uska
01-15-2011, 09:10 AM
fine as it is you want it otherwise subscribe.

cdemeritt
01-15-2011, 11:00 AM
fine as it is you want it otherwise subscribe.



At the risk of starting a Flame war, which is not my intent, as I have a cold, and don't really want to argue with people online....

I just want to point out, that Turbine makes money from selling conveniences in the DDO store. The benefits of those conveniences need to out weight the costs. In this case IMO they don't. There are very few quests (actually almost none that I can think of) that the convenience of opening Elite would justify the cost. This is my opinion, and I'm sure there are those who would disagree, but that's life, not everyone will agree.

an Example: Say I buy the Catacombs pack late, as it is a lowlevel quest chain, and I want to save points for higher level quests first. So now I have a lvl 15 melee who wants silver flame favor... This toon can easily run Normal and hard in under 30 minutes each (probably faster, but for sake of argument). I find this boring, so I opt for the elite opening item from the store as it is now... 8 quests need to be opened X 95tp each= 760 TPs to save myself 1 hr of boredom... since the pack itself only costs 250 tp when not on sale... I certainly don't find this cost effective, and wouldn't waste my money like that. However if I could get a 3 hr elixir for 150-200 tp, that after doing catacombs, I could run some others as well, The convenience just became more cost effective....


Or to put much more simply:

They add what I suggest, I pull out my credit card and buy 2 or 3 over the life of a toon (as 3hrs is about as much favor grinding as I can stand in a sitting),

or they Do what you suggest Uska, which is nothing, and I put my credit card away and use the same amount of system resources but give back even less.

I doubt I'm alone in this thought.

Kahuna68
01-15-2011, 11:25 AM
The current Elite Difficulty Unlock Allows you to open any (1) quest on Elite, once for 95 TP. If in the process of running that quest, someone bogies the quest so bad that you can't complete, and you need to restart it, you can no longer open it on elite. Thankfully, there are very few quests that can go that badly, but none the less, there are some.


If you're talking about running a quest with a group, if you have at least one VIP, they can open it on elite for the entire party. No need for anyone to spend TP. This is moot, of course, if there are no VIPs in the group. :)

cdemeritt
01-15-2011, 11:38 AM
If you're talking about running a quest with a group, if you have at least one VIP, they can open it on elite for the entire party. No need for anyone to spend TP. This is moot, of course, if there are no VIPs in the group. :)

Which is why I feel 95 tp for the elite unlock is not worth the cost... in 90% of cases, asking a passing VIP to open a quest for you will work too. I solo a lot, and prefer not to do this, but at the current pricing and layout, I can swallow my pride and ask for help....

dunklezhan
01-15-2011, 11:58 AM
I think this is a good idea.

This is one of those areas that Turbine seem to have their pricing a little off. Accepting the 'grind for free vs convenience at a cost' approach which I do approve of (providing the convenience in question is not in some way game breaking - e.g. you shouldn't be able to buy raid loot), the convenience option must be affordable enough that people's laziness will win out over their wallet. 95 TPs is too much for a one off, on one toon, on one server.

At that price - and believe me I am quite capable of frittering money on things I really don't need, its not that I'm stingy, trust me - it's just too much. 10TPs seems right for what it actually gives you (or maybe 25TPs which is the minimum TP award for favour break points which would help them balance the books a little).

For 95TPs I'd want that it to apply to a whole adventure pack on my whole account on that server forever. For twice that I'd want it for all servers. (Note this is what it would take to make me pay for this. I realise I am not the baseline). At the current price its not even a feature that's even on my radar as a consideration to buy.

Same with the pricing of the armour 'customisation' and a couple of other things. Mostly I think the TP cost of stuff in the store is very fair but there's a few that make me double take and wonder who on earth they did their market research on - this is one of those times.

If they were to change the approach, so it was on a timer as per the OPs suggestion rather than a one shot deal, then that changes things significantly, and in a good way in my view.

I can see that Turbine won't want to make it too easy to get favour since that also leads to giving away TPs. They have to balance it out (hence my 25TP price point suggestion above). However I think the current approach really makes this a luxury purchase rather than a convenience. In a F2P market my instincts tell me that you need to capitalise on laziness (which is in large supply amongst the human race), not luxury & wealth (which isn't, particularly in the current financial market).

Kaeldur
01-15-2011, 01:02 PM
I can see that Turbine won't want to make it too easy to get favour since that also leads to giving away TPs. They have to balance it out (hence my 25TP price point suggestion above). However I think the current approach really makes this a luxury purchase rather than a convenience. In a F2P market my instincts tell me that you need to capitalise on laziness (which is in large supply amongst the human race), not luxury & wealth (which isn't, particularly in the current financial market).

This. Right on the dot.

I understand as well why they overpriced it, they were afraid someone might actually get more TP than they spend when using this. But 95 TP for one go? Nah, I'll pass. I think the OP's suggestion is very good... put it on a timer like XP pots and who knows?

dougnugget
01-15-2011, 01:17 PM
When I first saw this service advertised, I hated it.

Having recently had the good fortune to PUG some quests on a lowbie where someone else could open on Elite - I can see why it's being offered.

However, I wouldn't buy at the current price becasue it is a lot of TP for a very small benefit - something that can easily be overcome by being willing to run the quest at normal and hard - or by doing some networking.

However, if it were offered as an account unlock (like Vet status, 32 point builds or Warforged) - I could easily see myself dropping anything up to 2K points on it.

Of course, one of the few benefits of VIP status at the moment is the ability to open on Elite - so I can see why Turbine might not be willing to offer this. But the current product is very poor value and I would be surprised if it were purchased often.

Offering Elite access on a timer, as suggested above, may be a reasonable compromise - I wouldn't buy it, but I'm sure others would, and it would make more for Turbine than the current deal.

Cheers,

- doug

Uska
01-15-2011, 01:18 PM
At the risk of starting a Flame war, which is not my intent, as I have a cold, and don't really want to argue with people online....

I just want to point out, that Turbine makes money from selling conveniences in the DDO store. The benefits of those conveniences need to out weight the costs. In this case IMO they don't. There are very few quests (actually almost none that I can think of) that the convenience of opening Elite would justify the cost. This is my opinion, and I'm sure there are those who would disagree, but that's life, not everyone will agree.

an Example: Say I buy the Catacombs pack late, as it is a lowlevel quest chain, and I want to save points for higher level quests first. So now I have a lvl 15 melee who wants silver flame favor... This toon can easily run Normal and hard in under 30 minutes each (probably faster, but for sake of argument). I find this boring, so I opt for the elite opening item from the store as it is now... 8 quests need to be opened X 95tp each= 760 TPs to save myself 1 hr of boredom... since the pack itself only costs 250 tp when not on sale... I certainly don't find this cost effective, and wouldn't waste my money like that. However if I could get a 3 hr elixir for 150-200 tp, that after doing catacombs, I could run some others as well, The convenience just became more cost effective....


Or to put much more simply:

They add what I suggest, I pull out my credit card and buy 2 or 3 over the life of a toon (as 3hrs is about as much favor grinding as I can stand in a sitting),

or they Do what you suggest Uska, which is nothing, and I put my credit card away and use the same amount of system resources but give back even less.

I doubt I'm alone in this thought.


Elite opening is about the only thing worth while as a subscriber period

KillEveryone
01-15-2011, 03:14 PM
/signed on the passes. I like that idea. I wouldn't have to fool with another character just to open.

fredericko
01-15-2011, 03:24 PM
The proposed passes are ok. I would go a step further and directly add the ability to open quests on elite at will for a hefty price, like 2995 tp. If this sounds like a bit high, it may be, but I am willing to pay for it. I started with the F2P model, and and am not going VIP now; I have already purchased all adventure packs, have 10 character slots, and can play any class and race save horcs/helfs. I still have 5k+ leftover turbine points and there is nothing in the store I want to purchase right now. I would gladly spend 3k tp on the ability to open quests on elite though, since having to ask a guildie /putting a LFM up each time I want to run a quest on elite is annoying. And in case you're wondering, I've spent over 150 dollars in the game (though to honor the truth I run 2 premium accounts).

waterboytkd
01-15-2011, 03:44 PM
I like the account option idea, but it is going to have to be quite spendy. 2k points would be the minimum, in my mind. 3k would be closer to the mark. Why? Because if you buy this, you really won't need to buy Veteran status, Champion builds, or the Favored Soul class. You bought that feature so you could favor grind much quicker. You won't need to buy the server-specific account upgrades.


Elite opening is about the only thing worth while as a subscriber period

Why would this even be true? Half the benefits you get from being able to open an elite at all times you also get with your VIP status. Once you have those, what's the real benefit of being able to open on elite?

Over the course of an xp grind, you can get your coin lords favor and house k favor. Really, it'd only make a real dent in the effort to get your +2 tome at 1750 favor. Is that why some gets a subscription? Just to get to that free +2 tome faster?

Efficient elite opening is about the only thing unique to a subscriber. But to say it's the only worthwhile part? That's devaluing a subscription drastically.

Uska
01-15-2011, 06:18 PM
I like the account option idea, but it is going to have to be quite spendy. 2k points would be the minimum, in my mind. 3k would be closer to the mark. Why? Because if you buy this, you really won't need to buy Veteran status, Champion builds, or the Favored Soul class. You bought that feature so you could favor grind much quicker. You won't need to buy the server-specific account upgrades.



Why would this even be true? Half the benefits you get from being able to open an elite at all times you also get with your VIP status. Once you have those, what's the real benefit of being able to open on elite?

Over the course of an xp grind, you can get your coin lords favor and house k favor. Really, it'd only make a real dent in the effort to get your +2 tome at 1750 favor. Is that why some gets a subscription? Just to get to that free +2 tome faster?

Efficient elite opening is about the only thing unique to a subscriber. But to say it's the only worthwhile part? That's devaluing a subscription drastically.

not really everything else a subscriber gets people can buy more slots wf, monks tp all of those anyone can buy the only thing we get is elite opening

sirgog
01-15-2011, 06:44 PM
I'm strongly for this, as I'm one of the many people that upgraded from a VIP account to a Premium account that owns everything.

If people that had bought all the packs got a discount on VIP access, I could accept this as a VIP-only perk.

fredericko
01-15-2011, 06:49 PM
fine as it is you want it otherwise subscribe.

If you get to your office by car, and I get to my office using the subway, and you want to get to the office faster, asking for subway nerfs isn't going to help you in the least. If you feel you are getting little value for your subscription, ask for more VIP perks. Ask for more content, new races, new classes, whatever suits your fancy. Ask for more value for your money. Nerfing f2p won't do anything for VIPs, except giving them worse alternatives since VIPs too can go F2P any time.

Uska
01-15-2011, 06:57 PM
If you get to your office by car, and I get to my office using the subway, and you want to get to the office faster, asking for subway nerfs isn't going to help you in the least. If you feel you are getting little value for your subscription, ask for more VIP perks. Ask for more content, new races, new classes, whatever suits your fancy. Ask for more value for your money. Nerfing f2p won't do anything for VIPs, except giving them worse alternatives since VIPs too can go F2P any time.

I m not asking to nerf f2p you guys are asking to buff them see the difference:confused:

fredericko
01-15-2011, 08:04 PM
I m not asking to nerf f2p you guys are asking to buff them see the difference:confused:

I see someone who thinks he/she is making more money if his/her coworkers don't get a raise. We're asking for a raise, and no sooner we step out of the boss ofice you are stepping in and asking for us not getting a raise instead of asking for a raise yourself.

Azonalanthious
01-15-2011, 08:30 PM
I do think this would be a nice feature.

I can understand why p2p would be protective of the one thing they get that none of the rest of us do, but at the same time, as someone who was p2p for YEARS and is now a premium, I feel left out. I've probably spent about the same amount since the game went free to play buying points as I would have paying for a monthly subscription, but it is (for me) a better way to play/pay for the game for a variety of reasons that aren't really relevant to the discussion. But when I see folks getting defensive about VIP benefits, it does bug me a little. Why should I not be allowed things just because I choose to pay $50 every 3 months for points instead of $15 dollars every month?

But enough side-tracking the thread. I do think this is a ddo store feature that could use work. I like the timed ones or the option for a permanent unlock (either global or on a per quest or per adventure pack basis). I probably won't buy single quest unlocks ever, no matter what the price. For one quest, I would rather just run it a couple extra times.

Uska
01-18-2011, 02:52 PM
I see someone who thinks he/she is making more money if his/her coworkers don't get a raise. We're asking for a raise, and no sooner we step out of the boss ofice you are stepping in and asking for us not getting a raise instead of asking for a raise yourself.

No your asking to take a benifit from someone else period

arch0njw
09-24-2011, 10:43 AM
Just found this post. Great idea. I'm a VIP going back to Premium and this is the one thing I'll miss. There should be a nicer model for Elite unlock rather than the monthly subscription which, IMO, only has the Elite unlock as the only feature that is worth it.