PDA

View Full Version : Scale effect of ship buffs on low level characters



moorewr
01-14-2011, 01:31 PM
As our guild has unlocked 30-pt resistance and +2 stat shrines, I have noticed the outsized impact this has on low-level characters. Combined with to-hit and AC bonuses my lowbies can stand calmly in fire traps on elite, and what's more take on quest bosses that almost can't hit our AC.

Everyone loves being uber, but after a while.. it gets boring not having much challenge..

So, my suggestion, and it is bound to have few fans:

Scale the maximum benefit from stat and resist shrines by the character's level:
levels 1-6: Maximum +1 stat effect or 10 elemental resist.
levels 6-12: +2 stat effect or 20 elemental resist.
levels 13+: full effect

Flame away. :cool:

ArloOne
01-14-2011, 01:37 PM
If my newest experiment can stand in a lava pool or not. Our guild has earned it. We deserve it. And frankly, it allows seasoned players the ability to grind low level experience a bit quicker, allowing us to crank through the borish and familiar quests with a little less bother.

And in my opinion, the best reason to continue to allow it. Offering said buffs to new players who may not have the ideal build or gear. It allows them a bit of a bump to experience the game with a bit more forgivness.

Just my opinion.

Chai
01-14-2011, 01:41 PM
/nay

Perhaps the actual degree of how effective these buffs are will teach people to stock up on, and use whats available, rather than showing up in complete pile on form sans self sufficiency.

aldan
01-14-2011, 01:42 PM
I would have to disagree with the OP.

If you want your challenge, then dont use your ship buffs, then you get the maximum challenge. Problem solved.

I however am TRing lots of toons and the ship buffs allow me to solo just about everything with a pocket cleric. I could do so before but now its much easier to level.

coolpenguin410
01-14-2011, 01:42 PM
As our guild has unlocked 30-pt resistance and +2 stat shrines, I have noticed the outsized impact this has on low-level characters. Combined with to-hit and AC bonuses my lowbies can stand calmly in fire traps on elite, and what's more take on quest bosses that almost can't hit our AC.

Everyone loves being uber, but after a while.. it gets boring not having much challenge..

So, my suggestion, and it is bound to have few fans:

Scale the maximum benefit from stat and resist shrines by the character's level:
levels 1-6: Maximum +1 stat effect or 10 elemental resist.
levels 6-12: +2 stat effect or 20 elemental resist.
levels 13+: full effect

Flame away. :cool:


While I'm not necessarily against the idea, but if it's not a challenge for you when you use them...just don't use them.

moorewr
01-14-2011, 01:43 PM
/nay

Perhaps the actual degree of how effective these buffs are will teach people to stock up on, and use whats available, rather than showing up in complete pile on form sans self sufficiency.

Actually, based on what I've seen, I think it teaches them to beg me to invite them on my guild's airship. :p


EDIT: Can I ask people to lay off the "just don't use them" argument? This is about game balance, not about me.

Dark_Uncle72
01-14-2011, 01:46 PM
If my newest experiment can stand in a lava pool or not. Our guild has earned it. We deserve it. And frankly, it allows seasoned players the ability to grind low level experience a bit quicker, allowing us to crank through the borish and familiar quests with a little less bother.

And in my opinion, the best reason to continue to allow it. Offering said buffs to new players who may not have the ideal build or gear. It allows them a bit of a bump to experience the game with a bit more forgivness.

Just my opinion. <<<<<^^^^ THIS

Like the man said... we get em, we earn em, we use em. :D

Thinking like this will suggest next that Turbine removes +2 no min level stat pots that are stackable w/ ANY buff you might receive from ships... Better yet remove House P favor buffs as well, oh and Make the Warp Time pendant (you get from 150 favor from House P) not work for TR's till they are at least lvl 10...
Geeze man...:rolleyes:

moorewr
01-14-2011, 01:47 PM
<<<<<^^^^ THIS

Like the man said... we get em, we earn em, we use em. :D

Thinking like this will suggest next that Turbine removes +2 no min level stat pots that are stackable w/ ANY buff you might receive from ships... Better yet remove House P favor buffs as well, oh and Make the Warp Time pendant (you get from 150 favor from House P) not work for TR's till they are at least lvl 10...
Geeze man...:rolleyes:

Perhaps you've spotted the glaring logical fallacy in your post?

Dark_Uncle72
01-14-2011, 01:49 PM
Perhaps you've spotted the glaring logical fallacy in your post?


Or better yet you fail to spot the GLARING sarcasm in mine...

all I'm sayin is... (and everyone else it would seem) if you dont' like it..dont' use it... and if you object to ppl of said level using them..then dont' run w/ em..u want a challenge then YOU go do those quests w/ out said buffs..

Uska
01-14-2011, 01:50 PM
been thinking about this myself and it sure wouldnt hurt my feelings if the buffs scaled some of them would be pretty awesome and over powering on begining characters

Shyver
01-14-2011, 01:52 PM
/signed

With the addition of ship buffs, the Chronosphere/Red Fen/Stromreach Assault sets, dungeon scaling, BtA items, and the stacking DDO store pots the game is quickly reaching the point of being WoW easy (yeah I said it). Something needs to be done to offset this effect and bring some challenge back to the game and spacing out when you can use certain ship buffs would be a start at least.

moorewr
01-14-2011, 01:52 PM
Or better yet you fail to spot the GLARING sarcasm in mine...

all I'm sayin is... (and everyone else it would seem) if you dont' like it..dont' use it... and if you object to ppl of said level using them..then dont' run w/ em..u want a challenge then YOU go do those quests w/ out said buffs..

:rolleyes:

I did say "flame away," so thanks for following directions.

Dysmetria
01-14-2011, 03:27 PM
/signed

With the addition of ship buffs, the Chronosphere/Red Fen/Stromreach Assault sets, dungeon scaling, BtA items, and the stacking DDO store pots the game is quickly reaching the point of being WoW easy (yeah I said it). Something needs to be done to offset this effect and bring some challenge back to the game and spacing out when you can use certain ship buffs would be a start at least.It is only easy if you both have access to that stuff and choose to use it. If you want a challenge, you can always not use them and easily avoid running with those that do and those that want to use them still can. Win for you, win for everyone else, and a win for Turbine as well since this is one more useless suggestion they can ignore.

kafrielveddicus
01-14-2011, 03:31 PM
We have restricted our ship buffs to only our untouchables (toons that are 7th level or higher and have had zero deaths)!!!

Shyver
01-14-2011, 03:34 PM
It is only easy if you both have access to that stuff and choose to use it. If you want a challenge, you can always not use them and easily avoid running with those that do and those that want to use them still can. Win for you, win for everyone else, and a win for Turbine as well since this is one more useless suggestion they can ignore.

If in order to get a challenge in the game you have to put handcuffs on yourself in order to get it, then that is a fail on the part of the developers not the players.

If adding something to the game makes the game challenge trivial then it shouldn't be added, or at least should be stretched out so it gains in power as the game progresses. Don't front load it to make what has become an easy game easier. Just one more easy button.

moorewr
01-14-2011, 03:36 PM
We have restricted our ship buffs to only our untouchables (toons that are 7th level or higher and have had zero deaths)!!!

Awesome. :)

Now, this is an example of a group (Permadeath!) that wants to restrict their activities beyond what the DM has set for the game. That is not the same as the general game-balance problem with buffs as they are now. So, again, posters, please stop suggesting that I should skip using ship buffs. That's not to the point.

kafrielveddicus
01-14-2011, 03:36 PM
If in order to get a challenge in the game you have to put handcuffs on yourself in order to get it, then that is a fail on the part of the developers not the players.

If adding something to the game makes the game challenge trivial then it shouldn't be added, or at least should be stretched out so it gains in power as the game progresses. Don't front load it to make what has become an easy game easier. Just one more easy button.

LOL, or you could join PD Halls of Valhalla, a permadeath guild!!!

Krag
01-14-2011, 03:37 PM
don't like it - don't use it

not a rocket science

moorewr
01-14-2011, 03:39 PM
don't like it - don't use it

not a rocket science

:rolleyes::rolleyes:
You're just going to have to read my previous post, pal, when you're done fiddling with that rocket.

Aaxeyu
01-14-2011, 03:39 PM
don't like it - don't use it

That is a very bad argument.
You can't assume that something is good for the game just because it's there.

Here's a good post on the topic: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=186945

Templarion
01-14-2011, 03:44 PM
If my newest experiment can stand in a lava pool or not. Our guild has earned it. We deserve it.How about the new members some guilds take? They did nothing to gain it.

Absolutely:
/signed
Ship buffs are over powered on lower levels. This game is too easy without ship buffs - not to mention with them.

eonfreon
01-14-2011, 03:46 PM
Awesome. :)

Now, this is an example of a group (Permadeath!) that wants to restrict their activities beyond what the DM has set for the game. That is not the same as the general game-balance problem with buffs as they are now. So, again, posters, please stop suggesting that I should skip using ship buffs. That's not to the point.

Nah, the game balance issue is in your head. Low level quests are tiresome. We don't care about the "challenge" of them. We just want to get through them as fast as possible.

They were a "challenge" years ago. Now they are just same old same old. Even without those "overpowered" buffs they are not a challenge.

Anything to make it easier to get through them with less resource usage is okay in my book.

So if you don't like the current balance then do without them. You won't get most of the rest of us to agree that it should be rebalanced so that you can get a challenge (really, you feel challenged without them? I barely use them on high level stuff, let alone low level stuff).

kafrielveddicus
01-14-2011, 03:46 PM
How about the new members some guilds take? They did nothing to gain it.

Absolutely:
/signed
Ship buffs are over powered on lower levels. This game is too easy without ship buffs - not to mention with them.

Then you should join our Permadeath guild, no ship buffs unless you are deathless and above level 7, no brokers, no twinking, no auction house.

Those should make it a little more difficult for you!!!!

Dysmetria
01-14-2011, 03:49 PM
If in order to get a challenge in the game you have to put handcuffs on yourself in order to get it, then that is a fail on the part of the developers not the players. It isn't putting handcuffs on yourself, it is simply not going out of your way to farm overpowered gear sets or to get high level ship buffs. Plenty of new players have none of that gear, and even many that have been around for a while don't have access to the higher tiers of guild buffs. Likewise either can choose to play less than optimal character builds.

If people go out of their way to collect the best gear and equip it, to make their group wait while they get the best ship buffs, and/or are playing a common tried and tested OP build then it seems pretty obvious they do not want a challenge, at least not for the low level quests they have likely already run many times before. Likewise scaling the best ship buffs down is not going to increase the challenge by much for the few that would be effected by such a change.

eonfreon
01-14-2011, 03:51 PM
That is a very bad argument.
You can't assume that something is good for the game just because it's there.

Here's a good post on the topic: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=186945

Ah yes, that tired old post.

See the problem is for a lot of us the "boring" and "frustrating" point on that scale happens to be doing the low level stuff.
So, taking away ship buffs won't make it "fun" and "exciting".
So, why bother taking them away?

Aaxeyu
01-14-2011, 03:54 PM
Ah yes, that tired old post.

See the problem is for a lot of us the "boring" and "frustrating" point on that scale happens to be doing the low level stuff.
So, taking away ship buffs won't make it "fun" and "exciting".
So, why bother taking them away?

If low level is too easy to the point that it's boring, which it is, then making it even easier is not a good solution. In that case they should just let us skip it completely instead,
Or make it harder.

Phidius
01-14-2011, 04:00 PM
I don't even use ship buffs when I'm leveling my toons - the trip to the boat isn't worth the wait. None of them make the hardest part of leveling go any faster - the part where you run to the quest, run to completion, run back to the quest giver, then on to the next one.

In fact, I don't even get guild buffs unless I'm standing around waiting for a raid to start.

How about we just remove guild buffs completely, and use those hook points for some more storage instead? Everybody get's their own private locker, plus some communal ones.

There - now the game's "balanced" again.

eonfreon
01-14-2011, 04:02 PM
If low level is too easy to the point that it's boring, which it is, then making it even easier is not a good solution. In that case they should just let us skip it completely instead,
Or make it harder.

Skipping it would be great.
However, barring that, making it so I can just race through it without having to get resist pots and stuff works too.

It was fun a long time ago. And it's still fun to new players.
Making it harder won't make it more fun.
I don't want to be at that level period.