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View Full Version : Please, change the default LFM level range



nibel
01-09-2011, 07:10 AM
At this time, if you open a new Looking for Group, the UI set the level range into 2 levels over and under your actual level. So, if you are level 10, the LFM open as a default range of 8-12.

The main problem of this is, if two people, level 8 and 12, joins, the level 8 will get a -50% XP penalty for being powerleveled by a level 12. Sure, usually experienced leaders will recognize it and adjust the LFM if someone level 8 or 12 joins, but new players have no idea about this mechanic until they get hit by it, and as far as I know, absolutely no help hints in the game tell you about this. (There is a hint on explorer areas, but they have different level ranges, so, moot point)

I suggest that the default level range became 1 level up and 2 levels down. So, a level 10 leader will set the group to level 8-11.

The reason is that the intent is for everyone to run quests at level. So, a level 11 character into a level 10 quest will not give the group any XP penalty, and the level range give no XP penalty even if the group have characters in all the level range.

greybucket
01-09-2011, 07:16 AM
/signed

shores11
01-09-2011, 07:26 AM
/not signed

All you have to do is adjust the level range in your LFM yourself. What if you want to make an LFM with you being the lowest level in a party (which is usually more common).

Example: Your new default
Quest = Level 12
Your level = Level 9
Your New Default would be = Player levels 7-10
LFM poster really wants = Player levels 9-12
Result = Now I have to again adjust the LFM. The scenarios are many for the player to make. If we are going to ask for soemthing like this then why not make it so each player can customize for themselves.

I was bascially against them changing the LFM default from 1-20. I thought it absurd that people complained about them not beng able to read or type in a different level range.

Note: I added in the text in yellow to be more clear.

nibel
01-09-2011, 07:35 AM
/not signed

All you have to do is adjust the level range in your LFM yourself. What if you want to maje an LFM with you being the lowest level in a party (which is usually more common.

Example:
Quest = Level 12
Your level = Level 9
Your New Default would be = Player levels 7-10
You really want = Player levels 9-12
Result = Now I have to again adjust the LFM. The scenarios are many for the player to make. Uf we are going to ask for soemthing like this then why not make it so each player can customize for themselves.

At the actual default, the range would be 7-11, so, still no level 12 in the list. You still need to adjust the thing manually. So, your point is...

I want to see the default change so it dont screw up the new players that dont know why they joined a group and are getting a XP penalty for being powerleveled, which, again, is a term that is not defined into the game glossary or in-game hints.

shores11
01-09-2011, 07:40 AM
At the actual default, the range would be 7-11, so, still no level 12 in the list. You still need to adjust the thing manually. So, your point is...

I want to see the default change so it dont screw up the new players that dont know why they joined a group and are getting a XP penalty for being powerleveled, which, again, is a term that is not defined into the game glossary or in-game hints.

Clearly I stated in my post an example of your new suggested default. Your reply to the current DDO default did not address my point in any way.

Zharfie
01-09-2011, 08:03 AM
the current default is fine but it could have an option to be *dynamic*, to change automatically as higher level people join, or add a warning when inviting people that would get power leveling penalties (mention it to the one being power leveled as well...)

nibel
01-09-2011, 08:07 AM
Clearly I stated in my post an example of your new suggested default. Your reply to the current DDO default did not address my point in any way.

No sarcasm. That was a honest question about the example you used.

On the old default 1-20, you need to adjust the LFM to 9-12.
On the actual default 7-11 you need to adjust the LFM to 9-12.
On the proposed default 7-10 you need to adjust the LFM to 9-12.

So, i really didnt get your point being "I need to adjust the LFM if your suggestion is implemented".

Lorz
01-09-2011, 08:30 AM
op...i dont understand...you have to set the quest, classes you want to exclude if any, the difficulty level, level range, and then a brief message with the quest name and what your looking for ( dungeon crawl, zerg, heals or no heals...etc)


this all has to be set to do a proper lfm. you problem is the level range.....but what about all that other stuff.....that yes makes the difference between some noob and someone who knows whats up.


just sayin.....there is a lot more then just level.

nibel
01-09-2011, 08:35 AM
op...i dont understand...you have to set the quest, classes you want to exclude if any, the difficulty level, level range, and then a brief message with the quest name and what your looking for ( dungeon crawl, zerg, heals or no heals...etc)


this all has to be set to do a proper lfm. you problem is the level range.....but what about all that other stuff.....that yes makes the difference between some noob and someone who knows whats up.

Agree.

But the level range can, potentially, gives someone on the group a -50% XP that most new people will only perceive after the quest is completed. Its an easy fix to avoid this hassle.

Proper LFM writing (zerg, byoh, classes, required buffs and abilities, etc) can't be solved by Turbine. Its just game etiquette between players.

MeliCat
07-26-2011, 09:03 PM
Yeah that makes sense. Sounds good to me. New players often get trapped by this and I am almost always adjusting it anyway so it makes sense to adjust the default this way.

/signed

Gossamerblade
07-27-2011, 07:54 AM
I agree with the suggestion. New players may not be aware of the levels that apply xp penalties; having a "no penalty" default setting would help.
Also helpful: a warning that flashes (similar to the one that's already in effect in wilderness areas) if a higher-level character enters a dungeon and penalizes xp.

LoveNeverFails
07-27-2011, 08:01 AM
/signed.

KraahgDaAxe
07-27-2011, 08:02 AM
A warning message on the LFM itself can tell the LFM creator that the scenario he is creating will cause people below X level will be powerleveled and even expanded to use the default levels of the quests listed to determine if any experience will be rewarded at all.

Hell, go one or two steps further and have quest information populated that shows how much experience points you will be getting, before any bonuses (including death/reentry penalty) based on the toughness level (n/h/e) and the top lvl player in the group. This would be much harder to code, but make for a much more interactive GUI.

Kraahg

Lillou
07-27-2011, 08:52 AM
/signed, cood point specially for newbies

Schmoe
07-27-2011, 09:00 AM
This is a very nice idea that would help reinforce the acceptable party level range to avoid power-leveling penalties.

/signed

Zenako
07-27-2011, 09:19 AM
This doesn't fix the problem, merely looks to shift blame from the "leader" onto the automated system instead. The system sets the levels, so its to blame if something screws up the EXP for some members.

The leader is the one letting in the members of the party. NOTHING prevents the leader (other than paying attention) to letting in a level 20 into a quest listing posted for levels 6-9 for example, like in Chronoscope. You REALLY do not want the system to present hard limits on who can be in your party at times. Maybe your group is really only after an easy completion for favor or end rewards and cares not for EXP.

It is really not that hard to hit the "X" key and have the GUI pop up which gives all the relevant info about the quest, its level, its experience and YOUR modifiers to that EXP based on level differences, your level vs the quest, etc. It is also pretty easy to just tab thru the party members F1 up thru F6 and see what their levels are in the Targeting Orb in the little number at the top of that display. The default level range works pretty well. Keep in mind that the level delta penalty goes into the whole modifier bin of bonuses and penalties and often ends up not really cutting experience in half, but more like 25% or so. As long as the total of the penalties does not hit 100% you can still get significant experience out of quests.

Battery
07-27-2011, 09:23 AM
/signed

Gossamerblade
07-27-2011, 09:32 AM
This doesn't fix the problem, merely looks to shift blame from the "leader" onto the automated system instead. The system sets the levels, so its to blame if something screws up the EXP for some members.

The leader is the one letting in the members of the party. NOTHING prevents the leader (other than paying attention) to letting in a level 20 into a quest listing posted for levels 6-9 for example, like in Chronoscope. You REALLY do not want the system to present hard limits on who can be in your party at times. Maybe your group is really only after an easy completion for favor or end rewards and cares not for EXP.

It is really not that hard to hit the "X" key and have the GUI pop up which gives all the relevant info about the quest, its level, its experience and YOUR modifiers to that EXP based on level differences, your level vs the quest, etc. It is also pretty easy to just tab thru the party members F1 up thru F6 and see what their levels are in the Targeting Orb in the little number at the top of that display. The default level range works pretty well. Keep in mind that the level delta penalty goes into the whole modifier bin of bonuses and penalties and often ends up not really cutting experience in half, but more like 25% or so. As long as the total of the penalties does not hit 100% you can still get significant experience out of quests.

I don't see the OP's suggestion as having ANY hard limits on party make-up. The default LFG settings can always be adjusted in any direction. The suggestion is for the benefit of new players, who may not consider all possible aspects before using LFG to find a group.

Zargarx
07-27-2011, 09:37 AM
agreed. I'd be very surprised if this is not a very easy adjustment.
When I do LFMs, I always adjust the levels, but with a new build that I've been leveling, TWICE, in the last two days this has affected me. In both cases the leader didn't know about this, and wasn't affected by it, and it happened well into the quest...
The current defaults are stupid so I can't see any reason why anyone would defend them...?

somenewnoob
07-27-2011, 09:52 AM
Sure, why not. But is it that hard to change it yourself?

Galeria
07-27-2011, 12:35 PM
/signed

A very simple adjustment to the default levels would help new players to select the appropriate levels without anyone getting dinged.

nibel
07-27-2011, 05:52 PM
This doesn't fix the problem, merely looks to shift blame from the "leader" onto the automated system instead. The system sets the levels, so its to blame if something screws up the EXP for some members.

The leader is the one letting in the members of the party. NOTHING prevents the leader (other than paying attention) to letting in a level 20 into a quest listing posted for levels 6-9 for example, like in Chronoscope. You REALLY do not want the system to present hard limits on who can be in your party at times. Maybe your group is really only after an easy completion for favor or end rewards and cares not for EXP.

It is really not that hard to hit the "X" key and have the GUI pop up which gives all the relevant info about the quest, its level, its experience and YOUR modifiers to that EXP based on level differences, your level vs the quest, etc. It is also pretty easy to just tab thru the party members F1 up thru F6 and see what their levels are in the Targeting Orb in the little number at the top of that display. The default level range works pretty well. Keep in mind that the level delta penalty goes into the whole modifier bin of bonuses and penalties and often ends up not really cutting experience in half, but more like 25% or so. As long as the total of the penalties does not hit 100% you can still get significant experience out of quests.

4 levels high will give the lower level -50% XP, regardless of quest level. So, a level 8 in the same party with a level 12 will get -50%, plus any XP penalty the level 12 is inflicting on the quest (like -10% on a level 10 quest). And if the level 8 is a new player, probably he do not know he could get XP penalty for powerleveling.

Pressing X helps, but the powerlevel XP penalty is marked in the top of the XP screen, and if the quest isnt at the very start, the kill/breakable counting will put the header out of the view, to show the "total XP" on the bottom.

The leader can screw up the group's XP as they can now. Just setting the default to a no-penalty range will avoid unintentional XP penalty.

Also, thanks for the topic bump, everyone.

Rian
07-27-2011, 05:59 PM
/signed

I like the idea, it's more forgiving.
New players aren't being punished by the team ignorance when they simply need to learn.
Does this game come with a player's manual anymore? (Not the outdated cap lvl 10 one)

puget
07-27-2011, 06:08 PM
Also /signed. Every time I roll a new character, I spend my korthos/harbor idle time trying to chat new players towards the LFG panel.

I shudder now after this thread at how many times I failed to explain this and may have adversely affected my attempts to help players.

It is just something I never thought of while explaining the LFG.

/signed.

Arel
07-27-2011, 06:11 PM
/signed, not much to add really.