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ceiswyn
01-04-2011, 05:23 PM
Is there a single cosmetic armour kit that isn't basically a chainmail bikini?

Seriously, dudes. If, when staring at a character who is theoretically wearing full plate, I find myself impelled to say '...but I should be able to see her nipples. Why doesn't she have any nipples?' then you may want to consider whether your design philosophy isn't a little messed up.

(I've no objection to the occasional bit of risque armour. But the the message that the only point of women is to look sexy is not cool.)

Tobril
01-04-2011, 05:33 PM
Agreed.

There was only a single armour kit I found that didn’t make my little female hobbit look like a hooker.

donfilibuster
01-04-2011, 05:33 PM
Another eternal discussion on any d&d PnP forums.
There were a certain consensus that whenever there's chainmail bikini available it'd make bulky plates obsolete.
And that's by the book, let alone talking about the undocumented distraction bonus.

dunklezhan
01-04-2011, 05:34 PM
[quote] (I've no objection to the occasional bit of risque armour. But the the message that the only point of women is to look sexy is not cool.)

agreed, +1

really annoyed me in WoW that the same armour on a woman suddenly became midriff showing skin tight stuff instead of the bulky plate on a male toon. One of the thing I loved about DDO was that it was immediately apparent that the armour was armour.

I'm a guy, by the way. I play a lot of female toons. I like girls. I like it when girls beat on stuff with large swords, or call down fiery death from the heavens. I don't know why, I just do, ok. Stop looking at me like that.

FoxCourier
01-04-2011, 05:42 PM
Sadly, most of the time armor art design tends to follow this philosophy:

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/2/25/129116353614762165.jpg

Note, even female armor art designers tend to fall into this trap more often then not.

...I think we could stand to go in a more awesome and logical progression, myself. It's the main reason I've sort of been avoiding the armor kit things in general (that, and most of my characters are fairly low level anyway and I tend to like most of the things I get baseline anyway; If not, I just buy a different version. Still working up towards getting more long-term armor at this point).

Aeolwind
01-04-2011, 05:48 PM
The hooker thing worked Ok for my bard, but beyond that.... My intim tank fighter that is supposed to take a beating, does not need armor that could be made from 3 aluminum cans and 6ft of dental floss.

unionyes
01-04-2011, 05:49 PM
I could care less about the front of the armor. It's the back that concerns me.

I play almost exclusively female toons (except Dwarves, reminds me too much of what my High School gf looked like at the reunion after I hadn't seen her in 10 years). I do so because I spend a lot of time looking at the back of the toon running, and would prefer a shapely female form simply for esthetics.

That being said, my three daughters and two sons (ranging from 14 to 6 in age) see me play fairly often, and I don't like the message that the +5 Skankplate is sending. However, it is a game, nothing more. Just as I wouldn't want my daughters wearing the chainmail bikini, I wouldn't want any of my kids to Purge the Heretics or rack up the Slayers.

Tobril
01-04-2011, 05:50 PM
Sadly, most of the time armor art design tends to follow this philosophy:

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/2/25/129116353614762165.jpg

Note, even female armor art designers tend to fall into this trap more often then not.

...I think we could stand to go in a more awesome and logical progression, myself. It's the main reason I've sort of been avoiding the armor kit things in general (that, and most of my characters are fairly low level anyway and I tend to like most of the things I get baseline anyway; If not, I just buy a different version. Still working up towards getting more long-term armor at this point).


Bah, scantily clad females are pretty useless…unless they are bringing me a sandwich. :D

donfilibuster
01-04-2011, 07:04 PM
Don't forget the issue at hand is the 'looks' and not about the armor and ac.
Making a full plate armor look like a bikini takes a mere 1st level spell when crafting.
The bulky plate and ac is still there, that's not an issue nor an excuse for not wearing glamered armor.
Now what you make yourself look like that's the dilemma.

h4x0r1f1c
01-04-2011, 07:33 PM
Why don't Warforged get armor kits to show off their belly?

CaseStringer
01-04-2011, 07:33 PM
Just wait until they release the Blue Spiral kit... Think 'Rings of Saturn' for the top (or lack there of) :rolleyes:

Lyniaer
01-04-2011, 07:34 PM
My two cents, which in this economy is worth exactly a piece of chewed chewing gum and a nameless strand of hair: The character design in both DDO and WoW has always been kinda...blah. Every male avatar is a bulky, muscular dude with a square jaw and thick chest; even the elves FFS, while the females are all shapely with a 'Baby-Got-Back' behind and 'More-than-a-mouthful-is-just-a-waste' headlights. The gay in me would prefer a shapely male avatar over a shapely female one. Zah.

My vote for the next big update; skip new content, skip the Epic slush and skip the new character classes. For all those who've played every class for 20 levels on every race and gender and cleared every dungeon on Elite... Tough. Take your "I've got nothing to do" and please buy another game. Pleeeease. I've been playing for a long time and it never ceases to amaze me the ever-growing number of Know-It-Alls.

Rants aside, I totally want to see a major revamp to the character creation system. Something more along the lines of Oblivious...er, you know what I mean. Cheek depth, chin length, hair length, eye size on three different axis; chest, stomach, legs, arms, neck, shoulders, feet, toes, fingers...all of it with it's own slider and a massive MSPaint-like color pool for all things involved. Skin-tone, shape, level of musculature and a better attention to detail when it comes to trinkets like Earrings, piercings and other jewelry. Turbine; let's put the Dungeon-makers to the side and round up a handful of monkeys/artists and get them started on brand-spankin'-new character models. This game BADLY needs a brush-up on variety. I keep finding it a little awkward running across others that could pass for my twin wearing a slightly different haircolor or...hat; or that god-awful Minos Legions. FFS, "/showhelmet off" so I can tell you bloody buffoons apart... Oh, wait, nevermind... You'd all STILL look the same anyway! ><

donfilibuster
01-04-2011, 07:57 PM
Just note that having too many character avatar styles carry a slight performance expense, not sure how much.
This is one point towards having a system to change color on the existing armor skins, which would allow more variety.
And that's on top of knowing that many of the existing armor skins do indeed come in different colors already.

I kind of hope the recent (perceived) lag from u7 and u8 don't come from having to render bulky orcs all over the place.
(think of crowded places like outside tempest spine on the happy hour or outside the shroud)
(in fact, i feel my client slows more than before with just the usual small crowd at the auction houses)

Fishcatch22
01-04-2011, 08:03 PM
Even though I'm a straight man who always plays his hirsute, Jay Leno-chinned He-man, I was relieved to see that women wore actual armor in this game... now these new armor kits have just made it like every other Fantasy MMO out there: Male toons for guys who want to feel more manly, Female toons for guys who are tired of staring at the rear of aforementioned male toons.

Azaron_Nightblade
01-04-2011, 08:07 PM
My two cents, which in this economy is worth exactly a piece of chewed chewing gum and a nameless strand of hair: The character design in both DDO and WoW has always been kinda...blah. Every male avatar is a bulky, muscular dude with a square jaw and thick chest; even the elves FFS, while the females are all shapely with a 'Baby-Got-Back' behind and 'More-than-a-mouthful-is-just-a-waste' headlights. The gay in me would prefer a shapely male avatar over a shapely female one. Zah.

My vote for the next big update; skip new content, skip the Epic slush and skip the new character classes. For all those who've played every class for 20 levels on every race and gender and cleared every dungeon on Elite... Tough. Take your "I've got nothing to do" and please buy another game. Pleeeease. I've been playing for a long time and it never ceases to amaze me the ever-growing number of Know-It-Alls.

Rants aside, I totally want to see a major revamp to the character creation system. Something more along the lines of Oblivious...er, you know what I mean. Cheek depth, chin length, hair length, eye size on three different axis; chest, stomach, legs, arms, neck, shoulders, feet, toes, fingers...all of it with it's own slider and a massive MSPaint-like color pool for all things involved. Skin-tone, shape, level of musculature and a better attention to detail when it comes to trinkets like Earrings, piercings and other jewelry. Turbine; let's put the Dungeon-makers to the side and round up a handful of monkeys/artists and get them started on brand-spankin'-new character models. This game BADLY needs a brush-up on variety. I keep finding it a little awkward running across others that could pass for my twin wearing a slightly different haircolor or...hat; or that god-awful Minos Legions. FFS, "/showhelmet off" so I can tell you bloody buffoons apart... Oh, wait, nevermind... You'd all STILL look the same anyway! ><

Gawd, I'd love more character creation options - it's one of the biggest things DDO lacks compared to other MMO's.
Each time I show the game to new friends, the first main complaints I hear are about how limited the customization is - especially among the female gamers.
And I hate the male character models in both this game and WoW. :P

ceiswyn
01-05-2011, 02:17 AM
My two cents, which in this economy is worth exactly a piece of chewed chewing gum and a nameless strand of hair: The character design in both DDO and WoW has always been kinda...blah. Every male avatar is a bulky, muscular dude with a square jaw and thick chest; even the elves FFS, while the females are all shapely with a 'Baby-Got-Back' behind and 'More-than-a-mouthful-is-just-a-waste' headlights. The gay in me would prefer a shapely male avatar over a shapely female one. Zah.<

Mmm; the human female avatars are already implausibly skinny with no muscles (don't get me started on this), leaving them nowhere to go really for the elves. And I'd not at all object to a slightly more androgynous look for the male elves.

But for goodness' sake, whatever you make them look like, at least accept that female characters exist for a purpose other than male wish fulfillment? Please?

Surcus1
01-05-2011, 05:34 AM
As was mentioned above..

I don`t mind the current kits, but they do look pretty much the same..and more variety is good. I am sure we`ll get enough to choose from given time, though, and everyone will be happy:)

Kza
01-05-2011, 05:37 AM
/signed should be a better variation

donfilibuster
01-05-2011, 05:46 AM
Even though I'm a straight man who always plays his hirsute, Jay Leno-chinned He-man, I was relieved to see that women wore actual armor in this game... now these new armor kits have just made it like every other Fantasy MMO out there: Male toons for guys who want to feel more manly, Female toons for guys who are tired of staring at the rear of aforementioned male toons.

Very true, and another reason why the existing armor was perfectly right, pending a way to change its color.

But will people buy a cosmetic item if it looks like proper class atire?
(knightly non-spikey plates for paladin, stealthy non-monk outfits for rogues, hunter suits for ranger, nice looking clothes for bard, non-fancy robes for non-fancy wizards, etc.)
Not that the armor kits were all bad, but the choice of color was kind of colorful.
Walking into a dungeon in bright clothes shoudln't be a wise thing no matter how heroic your heroes be.

BattleCircle
01-05-2011, 05:53 AM
Bah, scantily clad females are pretty useless…unless they are bringing me a sandwich. :D


And beer. Don't forget the beer :D

ceiswyn
01-05-2011, 08:12 AM
But will people buy a cosmetic item if it looks like proper class atire?

I would totally spend TP on normal-looking armour if it had a striking design or came in black. (Maybe with a subtle but tasteful design in a contrasting shade of, err, black.) Or bright-shiny-white for paladins. Or if it were a monk outfit that wasn't baggy. Ooh, or how about non-medieval-Western armour designs? Chinese lamellar armour, Japanese Samurai armour, even Roman segmented plate - they could all look pretty cool.

Item appearance has never been sex-linked before. Why've they started now?

DaSawks
01-05-2011, 08:21 AM
How did I know that this thread would hit the gutter fast. Female armor is not realistic. Hummmmm. That was wierd. I though this was a game. Art is in the eye of the Beholder. No pun intended.;)

Dartwick
01-05-2011, 08:23 AM
Could we get at least 1 armor kit that made the women look pretty much naked?

maybe it could look like a pair of low boots - or even just ear rings.

Lleren
01-05-2011, 08:29 AM
I would totally spend TP on normal-looking armour if it had a striking design or came in black. (Maybe with a subtle but tasteful design in a contrasting shade of, err, black.) Or bright-shiny-white for paladins. Or if it were a monk outfit that wasn't baggy. Ooh, or how about non-medieval-Western armour designs? Chinese lamellar armour, Japanese Samurai armour, even Roman segmented plate - they could all look pretty cool.

Item appearance has never been sex-linked before. Why've they started now?

I would love to Rock some Lorica on my Barbarian.

So I looted it, its good Armor =D

Kelavam
01-05-2011, 09:29 AM
[quote=ceiswyn;3512818]



agreed, +1

really annoyed me in WoW that the same armour on a woman suddenly became midriff showing skin tight stuff instead of the bulky plate on a male toon. One of the thing I loved about DDO was that it was immediately apparent that the armour was armour.

I'm a guy, by the way. I play a lot of female toons. I like girls. I like it when girls beat on stuff with large swords, or call down fiery death from the heavens. I don't know why, I just do, ok. Stop looking at me like that.

Hah.. You guys need to stop making me laugh out loud at work - i am going to get in trouble. :)

One of the things I liked about DDO when I first started was the fact the women did not look like hookers. I am sad to see that this is the way it is going. Every other MMO I have played in the past the women look like they should be standing on a street corner instead of blowing up orcs.

I do like the distraction bonus idea though. Hookerish armor automatically acts like a hypnotism spell. :)

Alabore
01-05-2011, 12:50 PM
I don't like the message that the +5 Skankplate is sending.
+1 cookie for making me chuckle.
Skankplate... eh.

:D





Rants aside, I totally want to see a major revamp to the character creation system.

So do I.
And other players too - if comments from the Lamannia forum are of any indication.


I agree with the general opinion here: DDO armour used to look like that, armour.
I don't really know what got in devs/artists' minds when they made these new kits.
I tried them on my character and I felt embarrassed.
I am one of those crazy individuals who tends to do some rp in his head, and I kind of identify myself with my characters - or at least some aspect of theirs or another.

The problem is not with revealing armour.
The problem is with inequality: armour should be equally revealing - maybe with some adjustments for gender differences - so I can choose.
The moment you have bulky plate for males and chainmail bikini for females, you're basically courting the lowest common denominator.

It almost feels like marketing dept. suddenly found out sex sells - internet is for p0rn, as the saying goes... - and devs duly obliged.

:rolleyes:

Draccus
01-05-2011, 12:59 PM
Put me in the minority, then. It's a fantasy game and I like seeing scantily clad females in showy, unrealistic armor. It's as much a part of medieval fantasy games as trolls and dragons and magic swords and fireball spells. And my wife doesn't mind it either.

So cheers to Boris Vallejo, Frank Frazetta, and the DDO armor designers!

Loromir
01-05-2011, 01:06 PM
Could we get at least 1 armor kit that made the women look pretty much naked?

maybe it could look like a pair of low boots - or even just ear rings.

Myabe something like Princess Leah wore when she was a prisoner of Jabba. Nice.......

Kominalito
01-05-2011, 01:10 PM
the armour was armour.


not to derail the convo (which i agree with) but i remember saying this about the cosmetic discussion when it was petitioned. and the argument is precisely the opposite here. people FOR the cosmetic kits do not want armour for armour. they want to wear jammies, and look like they wear plate.

i just think its funneh that we have gone full circle mobeus on the subject.

rest
01-05-2011, 01:11 PM
You could always.... not purchace the armor kits, and continue for your female characters to wear "real" looking armor.

I personally don't see the point in armor cosmetic kits that are

ugly
expensive
bound to THAT PARTICULAR ARMOR
hooker-esque

There are much better places for me to go when I want to be titillated by clothing, or the lack thereof.


I would have loved to be able to apply the skin from one armor to the stats of another. I would even pay for it. Or copy the LOTRO idea with a "functional" armor slot and a "cosmetic" armor slot, as long as they were the same type of armor (heavy, medium, light or cloth) But these ugly armor kits mean I won't buy them.

Tharlak
01-05-2011, 01:12 PM
Put me in the minority, then. It's a fantasy game and I like seeing scantily clad females in showy, unrealistic armor. It's as much a part of medieval fantasy games as trolls and dragons and magic swords and fireball spells. And my wife doesn't mind it either.

So cheers to Boris Vallejo, Frank Frazetta, and the DDO armor designers!

^This^

TeyaBrosna
01-05-2011, 01:13 PM
Speaking as a girl gamer, I have to say that I don't really mind the sexiness of the new armor kits...I just wish we had more new choices than that. I agree with a lot of the previous posts that the fact that armor looks like ARMOR in this game is one of its strong points. Being a girl, I'd also love the option of having something pretty to wear now and then, but surely there has to be a balance between something that looks lovely and something that looks like I just escaped from Jabba's clutches.

I really like the ideas others put forward about having class-appropriate garb...surely some of that gear can be attractive and at least somewhat utilitarian?

Alabore
01-05-2011, 01:25 PM
not to derail the convo (which i agree with) but i remember saying this about the cosmetic discussion when it was petitioned. and the argument is precisely the opposite here. people FOR the cosmetic kits do not want armour for armour. they want to wear jammies, and look like they wear plate.


I remember that.
Feels almost like devs corrupted a wish to show us how wrong we were in the first place.

:rolleyes:

...

I am guessing the problem is a bit different here: people wanted robes/outfits to look anything but, because they wanted more variation in appearance.
This is exactly the opposite: some players wanted outfits to look like plate, and devs gave us plate that looks like spandex.

...



I really like the ideas others put forward about having class-appropriate garb...surely some of that gear can be attractive and at least somewhat utilitarian?

+1 rep cookie about sexy yet utilitarian armour.
How do those pants even stay up?

:D

...

Speaking of sexy, I'm torn: what devs elected as sexy does not really bell a ring for me.
I love detailed outfits, with belts, buckles, pouches, sheaths and whatnot - with some key revealing areas.
A bare midriff with long pants and exposed pubes feels more appropriate for a sci-fi virtual reality disco lounge.
Sexy in fantasy, even "steampunkish" fantasy, is a different matter, by two or more leagues.

:)

madmaxhunter
01-05-2011, 01:40 PM
[QUOTE=dunklezhan;3512843]

Hah.. You guys need to stop making me laugh out loud at work - i am going to get in trouble. :)

One of the things I liked about DDO when I first started was the fact the women did not look like hookers. I am sad to see that this is the way it is going. Every other MMO I have played in the past the women look like they should be standing on a street corner instead of blowing up orcs.

I do like the distraction bonus idea though. Hookerish armor automatically acts like a hypnotism spell. :)

Problem is 90% of the creatures in DDO would not be impressed by the outfits... okay, maybe a horc female in a bikini would fare well :p

FoxCourier
01-05-2011, 01:42 PM
[QUOTE=Kelavam;3513931]

Problem is 90% of the creatures in DDO would not be impressed by the outfits... okay, maybe a horc female in a bikini would fare well :p

Augh.

Ogre cheerleaders.

Thanks for making that image resurface, you jerk. D:

Kelavam
01-05-2011, 03:35 PM
[QUOTE=madmaxhunter;3514418]

Augh.

Ogre cheerleaders.

Thanks for making that image resurface, you jerk. D:

I was misquoted! :)

That is a rather unpleasant thought.. *shudders*

Trillea
01-05-2011, 03:41 PM
And beer. Don't forget the beer :D

Naah, that's what the dog's for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEnTPJMgDMo

Alabore
01-05-2011, 03:46 PM
I was misquoted! :)
That is a rather unpleasant thought.. *shudders*

Not just a thought:

-> http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2120349_99060999182_BBOgreCheerleader_445x319.jpg

Open at your own risk.

...

That must be the ONE case where rule 34 does not apply...

:rolleyes:

Swedishchef
01-05-2011, 03:47 PM
1 It is a game, not RL
2 Turn off the damn skin then and use your original armor
3 If you worrie about the kids, well they have the discovery channel and possibly national geogrphic aswell
4 Did i mention it´s just a game, if some dirty bag is going off from how a toon in a game looks then they, whom ever they may be, have some serious issues
5 Stop beeing so damn 1800 and live a little.

Geodude07
01-05-2011, 03:47 PM
yep armor is largely boring for females. I mean I am sure some want to look sexy but there is no need for every single cosmetic to have exposed body when it is heavy armor. I mean I can understand an outfit being a bit exposed or a light armor to have that...but heavy armor should look heavy.

If a girl is supposed to be kicking butt in armor thats what it should look like, instead the armor kits make them look like tools.

I mean yeah you dont have to buy it, but it is disappointing to see if you wanted to change the armor you had to look nicer and instead realized all you could get was some bikini mail

Tholar
01-05-2011, 03:54 PM
[QUOTE=madmaxhunter;3514418]

Augh.

Ogre cheerleaders.

Thanks for making that image resurface, you jerk. D:

ogre cheerleaders? Like this?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_30-sk8zaaQM/TLRw5CVvRjI/AAAAAAAAE5A/zeaGxpqNwCo/s1600/ogre.jpg


if we have the distraction we would need a negative to balance. Random chance that any female character in your party will blind you by scratching your eyes out in jealousy.

Alabore
01-05-2011, 03:56 PM
1 It is a game, not RL
2 Turn off the damn skin then and use your original armor
...
5 Stop being so damn 1800 and live a little.

...

:rolleyes:

...

Don't you love it when people basically call you a bigot because you think a bare midriff does not belong to full plate much?

:D

...

Yes, it is a game, but we'd like the option to customise our characters to our own vision, the way we envision them.

I have no problem with naked ladies.
Gods know I don't.

Problem is these kits don't even look sexy, they look like an awkward attempt at following the "internet is for p0rn" axiom.
Nakedness is not functional, it's just random - and arbitrary since only female suits become suddenly revealing for no good reason.
It does not make any sense: it defeats the suspension of disbelief.

You love those kits? By all means, feel free to spend your TP on them.
Don't expect everybody to agree to your own tastes.

;)

Irinis
01-05-2011, 04:03 PM
Agreed and I hope that in further armor kits we will see options for women to be classy and men to be wearing +5 skankplate.

I'd love a third spiral kit where the longsleeved top from the robe of spiral 1 gets combined with the bottom of the outfit, and the scantier top from the outfit gets put on the skirt of the robe. I think that'd be really pretty.

Looted an AMAZINGLY awesome +5 mith fp the other day. Dark, powerful looking, and sexy without looking skank. Might have to roll a character to use it and never go past level 15 so I don't have to cry when I have to go get a "better" armor and put the cool one into the bank.

Yeah I'm a girl. I know. Only been one all my life. :p

TigrisMorte
01-05-2011, 04:30 PM
...
(I've no objection to the occasional bit of risque armour. But the the message that the only point of women is to look sexy is not cool.)

Yes, Yes. We understand your a real person with a brain and ideas and everything.
Now get back in box with the rest of the toys...:D

ViolentEnd
01-05-2011, 04:40 PM
I think the armor system is unfair for a different reason.
Look at all the attention the female toons are getting now!

How can my Half Orc compete in pageants and the eternal search for a mate if he cannot buy a chainmail banana-hammock to showcase his wares?

donfilibuster
01-05-2011, 05:26 PM
You could always.... not purchace the armor kits, and continue for your female characters to wear "real" looking armor.

I personally don't see the point in armor cosmetic kits that are

ugly
expensive
bound to THAT PARTICULAR ARMOR
hooker-esque

There are much better places for me to go when I want to be titillated by clothing, or the lack thereof.


I would have loved to be able to apply the skin from one armor to the stats of another. I would even pay for it. Or copy the LOTRO idea with a "functional" armor slot and a "cosmetic" armor slot, as long as they were the same type of armor (heavy, medium, light or cloth) But these ugly armor kits mean I won't buy them.

Exactly, yet real armor was also deemed ugly, and you get stuck using it for its stats, hence a wanting cosmetic option.
But then someone tought hooker-esque would sell better to the pajama-esque armor users.



I am guessing the problem is a bit different here: people wanted robes/outfits to look anything but, because they wanted more variation in appearance.
This is exactly the opposite: some players wanted outfits to look like plate, and devs gave us plate that looks like spandex.


Well said, so we changed pajama chain for spandex chain.

Elaril
01-05-2011, 05:49 PM
Problem is these kits don't even look sexy, they look like an awkward attempt at following the "internet is for p0rn" axiom.



Only if by "axiom" you mean "the reason that the internet was invented". :D

Fishcatch22
01-05-2011, 06:41 PM
Turbine could always make it so that you could toggle between real plate and sexyplate regardless of the toons gender. Would make women who don't want sex object toons happy and would give the guys some chuckles seeing their male toons run around in drag.

Azhanti
01-05-2011, 06:54 PM
Seeing as DDO full plate is as useful as a chainmail bikini..............

lazylaz
01-05-2011, 07:05 PM
I'm more than happy with the armour cosmetics. I like to see boobs and flat bellies as well as warrior women in heavy plate so I'm catered for nicely.

Alabore
01-05-2011, 07:20 PM
Only if by "axiom" you mean "the reason that the internet was invented". :D

:D

...

Stray musing: for some surfers, portfolio and p0rn actually overlap.

:rolleyes:

OzmarDDO
01-06-2011, 02:56 PM
(I've no objection to the occasional bit of risque armour. But the the message that the only point of women is to look sexy is absolutely true.)

Fixed that for you! :D

-Ozmar the Sexist

LordRavnos
01-06-2011, 03:38 PM
Agreed and I hope that in further armor kits we will see options for women to be classy and men to be wearing +5 skankplate.

I'd love a third spiral kit where the longsleeved top from the robe of spiral 1 gets combined with the bottom of the outfit, and the scantier top from the outfit gets put on the skirt of the robe. I think that'd be really pretty.

Looted an AMAZINGLY awesome +5 mith fp the other day. Dark, powerful looking, and sexy without looking skank. Might have to roll a character to use it and never go past level 15 so I don't have to cry when I have to go get a "better" armor and put the cool one into the bank.

Yeah I'm a girl. I know. Only been one all my life. :p

Wait you have been a girl your whole life? ****** something must be wrong with me, I am only a girl on the weekends :(

Veileira
01-06-2011, 03:39 PM
Bah, scantily clad females are pretty useless…unless they are bringing me a sandwich. :D


This is why we need skank male armor kits. So my scantily-clad slaveboys can bring me the loots!

Why are you all looking at me like that? :confused:

Alabore
01-06-2011, 06:14 PM
This is why we need skank male armor kits. So my scantily-clad slaveboys can bring me the loots!
Why are you all looking at me like that? :confused:

^

Ah, quoted for truth, indeed.
Some males actually love playing a subservient role to a dominant lady.

:rolleyes:

Irinis
01-07-2011, 02:22 PM
But then someone tought hooker-esque would sell better to the pajama-esque armor users.

Considering how ugly the pajamas are in this game, and there's no colour options to at least look different from everyone else wearing the same endgame armor... even these skank options ARE an improvement. We just want more options. Hopefully those are coming down the pipe and the delay in releasing the skins is to give the team a chance to create and test the next batch.

Mavnas
01-07-2011, 03:27 PM
I really think they should have gone with an appearance slot like LotRO or EQ2. The problem with the kits is that I find myself upgrading armors way too often to be willing to stick an upgrade onto just one. This is doubly true since I intend to TR once I hit 20 and go through the process all over again.

donfilibuster
01-07-2011, 05:53 PM
Speaking of the toons gender, try the kit on the starter rags on a male toon, it does keep the skirt.
There's definitely a difference between a kilt and a skirt regarding armor.

cdbd3rd
01-07-2011, 06:17 PM
I think the armor system is unfair for a different reason.
Look at all the attention the female toons are getting now!

How can my Half Orc compete in pageants and the eternal search for a mate if he cannot buy a chainmail banana-hammock to showcase his wares?

Tis it true what we Horcs don't wear 'neath our Outfits? ;)



Speaking of the toons gender, try the kit on the starter rags on a male toon, it does keep the skirt.
There's definitely a difference between a kilt and a skirt regarding armor.


Truly LOL'd. Reminds me of that ST:TNG episode where they visited the Matriarchal planet, and all the 'men' were running around in the short-skirted.... robes(?) whatever they'd be called. Little powder blue slavey looking outfits.



That all said, would it be terribly un-CD-like to agree that not all female armor skins should be scanty?
(Brings to mind: Scene from LOTR climactic battle where whazzerface pulls off her full helm and her blonde hair flows out, then whips out some serious Boss Mob whoop-tush. That was cool.) :)

Alabore
01-07-2011, 06:39 PM
I really think they should have gone with an appearance slot like LotRO or EQ2. The problem with the kits is that I find myself upgrading armors way too often to be willing to stick an upgrade onto just one.

^
Same here.

Azaron_Nightblade
01-08-2011, 10:31 AM
I really think they should have gone with an appearance slot like LotRO or EQ2. The problem with the kits is that I find myself upgrading armors way too often to be willing to stick an upgrade onto just one. This is doubly true since I intend to TR once I hit 20 and go through the process all over again.

And that was probably their idea of "repeat business" :P
Except combined with the high cost of the kits I doubt it's going to work out well.
Though I could live with the 250 cost if the armor remove kits actually gave back the kit instead of destroying it.
AKA a big initial purchase cost followed by minor ones (10 TP IIRC?) each time you have to change it, and considering that the kits are character bound it's not like you won't have to make the initial purchase multiple times anyway - so they'd still get their repeat business.

Mavnas
01-08-2011, 11:36 AM
And that was probably their idea of "repeat business" :P
Except combined with the high cost of the kits I doubt it's going to work out well.
Though I could live with the 250 cost if the armor remove kits actually gave back the kit instead of destroying it.
AKA a big initial purchase cost followed by minor ones (10 TP IIRC?) each time you have to change it, and considering that the kits are character bound it's not like you won't have to make the initial purchase multiple times anyway - so they'd still get their repeat business.

See I would have charged 500-1000 TP to unlock the slot (free to VIPs). Once unlocked you could put any normal armor in there to get appearance, but not stats. On top of that I would have offered the armor kits as purely cosmetic armor at 200-500 TP. This is way more expensive, but it would allow you a lot more armor appearances that look like armor, and it would allow you to swap between looks for free once you owned them encouraging you to get more.

Alabore
01-08-2011, 11:54 AM
From what I'm reading I'm inclined to say some of us wouldn't mind spending money, as long as we get to keep what we buy.
What proves irking to some is the fleeting nature of these goods: you only get to keep the kit if you keep the item it is attached to.
I agree with the cosmetic slot thing; I've already spent quite a few TPs in shared banks and extra char slots.
It's the petty nature of these kits that puts me off.

Stray musing: LOTRO does not charge players to change outfits because cosmetic options were part of the game before micro-transaction was implemented.
With DDO Devs had to graft the option on.

ZeroStar
02-25-2011, 04:03 AM
I was actually just going to post a thing about female armour kits being skin tight. I play 5 female toons. My elvish ranger looks pretty hot in skin tight light leather armour with lots of cleave, however my female fighter who is a fan of heavy plate armour.... I sorted through a lot of the test kits, complaining to myself that it all appears to be painted on, litterally, ass crack, belly buttons, lower back... but finally I see what looks like just what I was looking for! Heavy plate in blues and silvers before I realized it had massive open thighs!!!!!!

IS THERE a SINGLE one that doesn't have massive open thighs?

How is she supposed to resist acid attacks and freezing with open thights? Is that not like dressing in a heavy coat for winter time only to wear a cheer leader skirt below?

I get the appeal, I really do. Just please add a more clothed option for those of us girls who like to play girls. Keep the bikini mail, sometimes it's awesome. However give us a few more options. It might be worth your money.

And btw, finally bought her one of the dark/steel armour kits. I don't recall which one, no skin flashing with a sort of draped sash around the front. I loved it exactly what I wanted.... except for the very obvious ass crack. Almost thanks....

= zero

edit: I've just discovered the fairly modest crest series armour. I like, good job ddo!

Alabore
02-25-2011, 08:14 PM
IS THERE a SINGLE one that doesn't have massive open thighs?
I get the appeal, I really do. Just please add a more clothed option for those of us girls who like to play girls.


I am not a girl - by any possible stretch of warped imagination - but I play both male and female characters, and I agree with your point.

Chainmail garter stockings...?
I wonder what DDO's demographics are.

:)

SynalonEtuul
03-07-2011, 05:28 PM
My two cents, which in this economy is worth exactly a piece of chewed chewing gum and a nameless strand of hair: The character design in both DDO and WoW has always been kinda...blah. Every male avatar is a bulky, muscular dude with a square jaw and thick chest; even the elves FFS, while the females are all shapely with a 'Baby-Got-Back' behind and 'More-than-a-mouthful-is-just-a-waste' headlights. The gay in me would prefer a shapely male avatar over a shapely female one. Zah.

My vote for the next big update; skip new content, skip the Epic slush and skip the new character classes. For all those who've played every class for 20 levels on every race and gender and cleared every dungeon on Elite... Tough. Take your "I've got nothing to do" and please buy another game. Pleeeease. I've been playing for a long time and it never ceases to amaze me the ever-growing number of Know-It-Alls.

Rants aside, I totally want to see a major revamp to the character creation system. Something more along the lines of Oblivious...er, you know what I mean. Cheek depth, chin length, hair length, eye size on three different axis; chest, stomach, legs, arms, neck, shoulders, feet, toes, fingers...all of it with it's own slider and a massive MSPaint-like color pool for all things involved. Skin-tone, shape, level of musculature and a better attention to detail when it comes to trinkets like Earrings, piercings and other jewelry. Turbine; let's put the Dungeon-makers to the side and round up a handful of monkeys/artists and get them started on brand-spankin'-new character models. This game BADLY needs a brush-up on variety. I keep finding it a little awkward running across others that could pass for my twin wearing a slightly different haircolor or...hat; or that god-awful Minos Legions. FFS, "/showhelmet off" so I can tell you bloody buffoons apart... Oh, wait, nevermind... You'd all STILL look the same anyway! ><

YES, THIS, OH GOD YES THIS
pleeeaaaaassssee, PLLEEAAASSSEE, PLEASE
grgrgrahsgtyfhytahads *froths at mouth*

SynalonEtuul
03-07-2011, 05:35 PM
I literally cannot stress enough how much I want this to happen

Like seriously, look at what the guys over in Aion look like. I want some of that!

Memnir
03-07-2011, 05:48 PM
On female alts, roughly ninety percent of armor kits look like they're expecting Kobolds to stuff plat into their pants/bra. Maybe females wearing armor kits could get a bonus dance... /poledance, perhaps? Maybe we could retrofit the Bogwater Tavern to be a new place to try on Armor Kits - but only on the stage and doing the /poledance? Allow other patrons to throw a little plat or TPs their way, too.

I mean, if the Devs want these characters to look like total ho-bags... why not go the whole nine-yards with it.

Trillea
03-07-2011, 05:51 PM
I mean, if the Devs want these characters to look like total ho-bags... why not go the whole nine-yards with it.

Hear here! BRING BACK THE THONGS!

Chai
03-07-2011, 05:59 PM
I literally cannot stress enough how much I want this to happen

Like seriously, look at what the guys over in Aion look like. I want some of that!

Meh, even the cosplay for both genders from that game is old news, heh. Another game with Japanime graphics - wooohoooo!!!

Let me know when a Robotech MMO hits the market.

Next!!!

Mr_Ed7
03-07-2011, 06:03 PM
Don't buy the armor skin then yeah? Keep the original armor that looks like armor.

Unless of course you don't want others wearing the armor skins...

SynalonEtuul
03-07-2011, 06:07 PM
Meh, even the cosplay for both genders from that game is old news, heh. Another game with Japanime graphics - wooohoooo!!!

Let me know when a Robotech MMO hits the market.

Next!!!

I don't want the entire world to look the same, I just want pretty guys. Jeez.

Razcar
03-07-2011, 06:14 PM
Agreed.

There was only a single armour kit I found that didn’t make my little female hobbit look like a hooker.
Speaking of that, when can we get to buy the outfit Charlot the Scarlet wore before Concerned Hobgoblin Mothers of Xendrik banned her from Three Barrel Cove?

jcTharin
03-07-2011, 06:41 PM
The hooker thing worked Ok for my bard, but beyond that.... My intim tank fighter that is supposed to take a beating, does not need armor that could be made from 3 aluminum cans and 6ft of dental floss.

im now actually tempted to make some armor out of 3 aluminum cans and 6ft of dental floss. it probably wouldn't be that hard, its not like i have to work with that much stuff.

Alabore
03-08-2011, 01:55 AM
Let me know when a Robotech MMO hits the market.


:rolleyes:

...

To be fair, I don't recall Robotech/Macross to be guilty with that.
Mechas and powersuits were more or less devoid of gender-specific features.
Maybe shaped breastplates for female pilots - but nothing as glaring as chainmail bikinis.

...

I stand by my point: I wonder what demographics they were planning these kits for.
I find them largely unsuitable for my characters - only a couple suits actually provide full body coverage.
They are one-shot - and I've come to dislike one-shot stuff.
They are basically meant for "monoist" players, who'll run the same character quest after quest, until they acquire end-game level gear - I am a fervent altoist, to the point I alt between chars during the same gaming session.

Point has been raised before: I am among those who hope devs will implement a LOTRO-like cosmetic slot system.
I don't mind spending in-game plat to buy cosmetic options, or TP to unlock static services.
Spending TP to get something that won't even stay with my char when he/she changes underwear is asking a bit too much.

;)

donfilibuster
03-08-2011, 04:48 AM
To be fair, I don't recall Robotech/Macross to be guilty with that.
Mechas and powersuits were more or less devoid of gender-specific features.
Maybe shaped breastplates for female pilots - but nothing as glaring as chainmail bikinis.


I'm thinking the anime Saint Seiya do get non-full body armor right for a fantasy setting.
It consists in a pair of armbands, greaves, kilt plate, heart covering breast plate, shoulder pad and face mask/tiara.
(only the gold ones are full breastplate but still free in the seams)

This is because such armor is intended to be used in unarmed combat, the sort that monks do.
People often get breastplate wrong in d&d when truth is fullbody armor is intended to protect from weapons.

Mail helps against arrows and spears, Plate helps against swords. Leathers are enough against light weapons, etc.
Armor is overrated in d&d because you don't fight soldiers, you are supposed to fight big bulky monsters.
Your conan the barbarian outfit is as much help against a dragon that a knightly plate.

Alabore
03-08-2011, 05:44 AM
I'm thinking the anime Saint Seiya do get non-full body armor right for a fantasy setting.

I'm well familiar with that series.
It was - more or less - what I had in mind, when people asked for cloth under the guise of plate.

...

Problem with DnD is, AC and HP made sense in the tactical environment Chain Mail provided - a bit less so when translated into the skirmish-level kind of combat actual D&D offered.

Maybe GURPS is one of the most internally consistent gaming systems - where rule cover a broader range of tactical situations and genre crossovers.

Taecendar
03-08-2011, 03:47 PM
I like the new armor kits, though I would like to see more variety. More revealing for some of my male characters, less revealing for some of my female characters. Currently I have about 3 of my female characters across all the servers that these armor kits are exactly the sort of thing I wanted for them and I don't mind paying. The rest of my characters... I'm waiting for something else. Which by the way, if anyone was curious, the ones the revealing look works for in my opinion are my Barbarian, Bard and Sorceress.

There are a few of my male characters too that could make use of the current armor appearence kits, but the one-use nature and high price-tag doesn't fit the character who doesn't care that much about their appearence.

Also, did Royal 2 in Red disappear from the store? Some of the time picking 2 instead of 1 seemed to help with the functionality of the outfit.

jwdaniels
03-08-2011, 03:50 PM
I read an interview somewhere many moons ago (it may have been Dragon magazine) with Boris Vallejo (at least I think it was him)...

Anyway, the part that I do remember was that the artist flat out said that he always draws female fantasy warrior-types in chain mail bikinis because the female form just looks better that way than wrapped up in a can.

roselyn1771
03-08-2011, 04:09 PM
I think the armor is not ****ty enough. I enjoy looking at the pretty back side of my toon. If your offended by the 'dress' of other toons in the game then I suggest you stop looking. If you dont like it then just ignore it and let other people have their fun.

Don't take life to serious, no one gets out alive anyways.

notforyou
03-08-2011, 04:12 PM
if u honestly want to roll female and dont want skimpy armor then roll a WF cuz even the females don't know they are

Asketes
03-08-2011, 04:15 PM
yup. wasn't a fan of any of the hookerware.


it's fine to have a mix.. but half-orc females in a bikini is not something i'm going to buy.

sorry

Memnir
03-08-2011, 04:20 PM
yup. wasn't a fan of any of the hookerware.


it's fine to have a mix.. but half-orc females in a bikini is not something i'm going to buy.

sorryBetter a female Horc then a female Halfling in some of these getups...
If I bought an outfit for one of them, I'd be perpetually worried that Chris Hansen would knock on my door. :eek:

Duagrim
03-08-2011, 04:38 PM
Got me some ****ware for my halfling rogue, and it is most becoming.

Asketes
03-08-2011, 04:41 PM
Better a female Horc then a female Halfling in some of these getups...
If I bought an outfit for one of them, I'd be perpetually worried that Chris Hansen would knock on my door. :eek:

that's awesome!


halflings are best served in red dragonscale armor

Mazeratti
03-08-2011, 04:57 PM
/agreed

The only reason to date i have not purchased one, is this reason.

It isnt a bad thing to look beautiful while you kill stuff but to have a choice between beautiful or sexy would be better.

The least revealing armour kit for chainmail I could find - although least revealing - still looked like body paint - (this comment was from a male onlooker).

I like the idea and the sexy ones look gr8 - but just not for me

wolflordnexus
03-08-2011, 05:15 PM
Have you looked at the WF armor kits they all look like spandex at least some of the female ones have some gear.

Karell
03-08-2011, 05:29 PM
Alright, I agree with everyone here that they need a larger variety in the armor appearance kits. However, as pointed out time and time again on this thread, you are not, required by any means, to purchase and use the armor appearance kit. Heck, if they really want to, you can toggle it so the kit appears like it isn't attached to your armor, like you can showcase your helm or not.

Going on, scantily clad armor on men is just funny. I remember one PnP adventure I served in, where I was a chaotic Evil Gnoll Barbarian, wielding a greatsword called 'The Dragon Talon' which did an extra 3d6 fire damage per hit, and on criticals used the immolation spell on my opponent. And I was wearing Mithral Bikini Fullplate. That looked exactly like a swimwear bikini. Gave me a bonus on intimidate checks too, was pretty sweet. It was for fun though, and everyone got a good laugh over him. Am I homosexual by any standard? Maybe by some weird Catholic's point of view, for playing that 'demonic game, especially as a homosexual character' But no, it was fun. And different for me.

But boil this game down to it's standard, and it is just that, a GAME. Some people love the kits, and I'm not just talking about the men. I know one or two women that just Love the kits. It was put in to be enjoyed by people, not to be able to cater to everyone. It's impossible to honestly do that on an MMO IMO. You will always get that one crowd that hates a certain update or addition to the game. Don't take this seriously people, please. Just don't buy the kits then. Wear your regular armor in peace, and if someone else buys it and wears it, let them. None of my characters are ever entering the stormreach beauty pageant, and last I checked, one didn't exist. So calm down, quit the game if you think that adding these risque armor kits is honestly too much for you, and if you decide to stay on board, here's a hint:

Enjoy the game.

P.S.- if they did include scantily clad Male armor kits, there would be a thread complaining about them, like this one.

Doganpc
03-08-2011, 05:41 PM
I've seen worse.
http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/a474/doganpc/Screenshots/funnycapturea.jpg

Dogan
assless chaps in DDO

Robi3.0
03-08-2011, 05:45 PM
The hooker thing worked Ok for my bard, but beyond that.... My intim tank fighter that is supposed to take a beating, does not need armor that could be made from 3 aluminum cans and 6ft of dental floss.

Pff.... My bard gots the top hat now all she needs is the outfit of the Succubus at the end of the carnival pack.

Sex sales

true fact.

Alabore
03-08-2011, 05:57 PM
Enjoy the game.


To be fair, nobody really said they weren't enjoying the game, or threatened to leave because of revealing appearance kits.
If anybody has, it has skipped under my own radar.

While I tend to agree you can't take things too seriously - this IS a pastime after all, and you shouldn't let it ruin your life - it can't be a free-for-all either.
There should be some internal consistency, some sense of immersion.
Else, it's just a Quake-clone with extra number crunching, with a veneer of fantasy paint, some pop references and silly top hats.

Personally, I don't mind some departures from rule canon much; under the hood, DDO is an action game, not a turn-tactical.
I do take objection at some stylistic choices.
That's it.

donfilibuster
03-08-2011, 06:29 PM
I read an interview somewhere many moons ago (it may have been Dragon magazine) with Boris Vallejo (at least I think it was him)...

Anyway, the part that I do remember was that the artist flat out said that he always draws female fantasy warrior-types in chain mail bikinis because the female form just looks better that way than wrapped up in a can.

Not for milla jojovich in joan of arc. :cool:

Oh and take note of all her knight's plates too, that's the knightly plate the pajama paladins crave for.

Impatiens
03-13-2011, 01:21 PM
Pff.... My bard gots the top hat now all she needs is the outfit of the Succubus at the end of the carnival pack.


While most of the time I prefer my females to not be in overly sexy gear, I'd really like this for my bard too ;)

grgurius
03-15-2011, 07:44 AM
Small request Turbine,

can we please get a male armor kit that is only a thong and a bow-tie. Paired with big top it would really let my sorcs charisma to shine trough. :D

I mean why should only females get skimpy outfits.

Thank you.

Ofc, we would need a new dance animation then. :D

ZeroStar
03-17-2011, 11:03 PM
Ok.. how about -armor- sexy and not -swim- suit sexy.
I checked out nearly all of the test kits. I kind of liked how it conformed to pre-exsisting armor. I also believe ALL of them were cool looking. I also believe almost none of them were realisticly armor worthy. If I'm playing a bard, a thin purple silky thing would make sense. If I'm playing a heavy axe gal, a thin purple silky thing would be stupid.

Let's go for Klingon female sexy instead of sports illustrated sexy.

http://www.halloweencostumesforgirls2011.com/_cache/7/img/y_images_Female%20Klingons_0.jpg

vs.

http://media.komonews.com/images/080211_pirates_swimsuit.jpg


I don't think being offended is the issue. Let's keep our heads on straight.

- zero

ps, the crest armor kits seem to be less revealing.

Irinis
03-18-2011, 09:06 AM
Skank is great. Just, not for my Bard. I would love to buy an armor kit for her vulkoorim leathers but none of them are just beautiful armor. Or an illusion of a dress despite it being light armor.

If leaf1 light looked like leaf1 heavy, I'd have bought it instantly. How about some options in the kits for how revealing the customer WANTS it to be? Leaf1a - revealing. Leaf1b - slightly more coverage. Leaf1c - maximum coverage.

And I want to see skimpy skank options for the men. Are only women allowed to be skanks? Come on.

FlyingTurtle
03-18-2011, 09:36 AM
If we keep going down this road, all female characters should automatically start with Moderate Fortification because apparently the only vulnerable areas on a humanoid female are the breasts and the crotch.

Terebinthia
03-18-2011, 11:58 AM
I like the idea of a purchasable slot, that would be neat.

Personally I have only used one kit, on my Elocator's Habiliment - Leaf 2 IIRC, because it's the only one that wasn't cleavagetastic. I still have a midriff showing, what looks suspiciously like a tramp stamp at the back, and go go boots, so I feel a bit like a demented cheerleader, but at least it's not that multi-coloured monstrousity. I did dye my hair to match for thingies and giggles.

It would have been lovely to have more options with full body coverage, though. Who says you have to be mostly exposed to look attractive? If I want my character to look sexy, I break out the Resonance Guard suit someone sent me. Emma Peeltastic, baby :)

I'm sad that the Duelling Leathers are so meh looking, too. :(

Chette
03-18-2011, 12:24 PM
I went looking for an armor kit yesterday for my halfling female and was pretty turned off by the choices. I could only find ONE in all of them that didn't have 90% of her flesh exposed. That one turned out to be pretty ugly, so I didn't purchase anything.

I'm fine with having some sexy armor kits. Some of my characters I want to look beautiful (though I wouldn't say I really want any of them to look sexy). But this character, my little hafling, I want to look cute and spunky. Like a little tomboy kid who's trying to run with the tall ones and is running furiously to catch up. Dressing her up like a tramp doesn't really fit that persona.

grodon9999
03-18-2011, 12:43 PM
We need a tanning salon, put some half-orcs dressed like Jersey Shore guidos as NPCs haning out.

My Elf is way too pale for the trollop outfits, she looks like she'll catch fire in direct sunlight.

And there are some things a female dwarf just shouldn't wear, they remind me of what I used to wake up next to when I was in my 20s.

Taolie64
03-21-2011, 11:47 PM
I think Turbine needs to go a lot further with the armor kits. I'd like to have at least one toon with armor that looks like a T-shirt, bathrobe, and flip-flops, a la The Big Lebowski.

And maybe his off-hand weapon could be skinned to look like an open carton of milk. ;)