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View Full Version : Meteor swarm broken, easy fix.



Riggs
01-04-2011, 03:35 AM
Pnp rules the blunt damage from meteor swarm is like all ray attacks - requires a touch (ac) attack. DDO has no touch attacks.

Making meteor swarm auto hit an area has no logic - a rock - that is moving towards you, cannot be evaded, dodged? No attack roll, and then it explodes - and everyone in an area gets hit by an aoe, that does the same damage as each individual rock to everyone in an area? Makes no sense.

Monsters get to spam it forever, exploiting the Turbine-only house rule that touch attacks need no attack roll to hit exponentially more powerful.

Fix - make ray attacks, along with meteor swarm require a to hit roll (based on Int/Cha/Wis for casters), at full bab for a casting class - but a roll nonetheless.

Or make it evadable again.

D&D has almost zero no-roll-but hits 100% of the time with no chance of saving/dodging attacks. Turbine has lots.

or give monsters a mana bar.

Zharfie
01-04-2011, 03:38 AM
give monsters a mana bar.

this please!

h4x0r1f1c
01-04-2011, 03:13 PM
/notsigned but..

READ THIS!!!

If you have Quicken on, Meteor Swarm only does 3 meteors.

If you take it off, it does 4 meteors. The description said it should do 4.

Thriand
01-04-2011, 03:18 PM
Personally I think turbine should just keep on leaving touch AC out of the equation, it would be a horrible nerf to casters and I don't even want to think about it on epics. Asking for a ray spell to both connect with the target physically AND make an attack roll may be a bit much, they'd have to make it either one or the other IMO.

Also I think they should make the spell work more like it does in PnP where theres no more of this AoE bludgeoning damage but instead the target only takes bludgeoning damage if hes directly hit by the meteor, and if he is directly hit then he gets no save for the bludgeoning or fire damage. However all people caught in the explosion radius would still get reflex saves for half vs fire and no bludgeoning damage.

Riggs
01-04-2011, 03:32 PM
Ray spells could be made 'autotarget' like most spells - just require a to-hit roll, they basically do anyway as long as your not blocked or the monster moves too far. Even magic missle can be 'blocked' if the monster moves fast enough behind something.

the ray issue is secondary however, just it would require a update if meteor swarm was updated (again, since it was changed from evasion affects all of it, to evasion has no effect on the blunt damage after it was added)

As I posted in another thread - the real issue is poor monster AI. Lack of AI means monsters are made harder to make up for the lack - like adding in non-evadable aoe damage to raids.

Makes life harder for clerics, and most people hate pugging their clerics because so many pugs are also weak - adding in extra damage on top just provides an incentive to play a melee instead and let someone else worry about healing.

Cyr
01-04-2011, 03:46 PM
Interesting suggestion. Two things come to mind.

1) This would make ranged attacks and ray attacks have two methods of avoidance (AC and movement).

2) Player character casters could be determined to be weaker by this change depending upon if the ray attack roll functioned as a ranged touch attack or just went against a mobs normal (inflated) AC.

Personally I would prefer something a little different here.

1) Add touch attack AC's to mobs and players as in pnp (no real reason to alter this that I can think of at the moment). Apply these rolls to all ray attacks and also touch spells.

2) Keep movement based avoidance as a possibility for players. Prior quest design seems to require this. Epic OOB, shroud part 4, kobold come to mind.

3) Remove movement based avoidance as a possibility for monsters for ALL ranged attacks including ranged spells. Have a clear line of sight check when you cast the spell or shoot a projectile and if that passes then you just have to hit the mobs touch AC. Essentially the path of an arrow or ray is not calculated in flight for PC's and is instead considered to fly from the user to the target instantly. This would reduce physics checks and possibly open the way up for an increase in ranged ROF for PC's.

4) Use same code for instant flight path calculations for PC's figure into mob AI for ranged attacks so that if who they have agro on is blocked they will instead switch agro to someone who they can actually hit.

Aeolwind
01-04-2011, 03:47 PM
Personally I think turbine should just keep on leaving touch AC out of the equation, it would be a horrible nerf to casters and I don't even want to think about it on epics. Asking for a ray spell to both connect with the target physically AND make an attack roll may be a bit much, they'd have to make it either one or the other IMO.


I don't think so, it will still boil down to only a 5% miss chance, unless Turbine has mobs with like 60+ dex base. If they do, well, they broke their own game & a change to Ray Mechanics is pointless. All that would have to happen to make the ray work correctly is auto target like MM does. Mobs running 90 degrees laterally to you would no longer constitute auto miss either. But you are correct in the correlation of both hit and attack, but this would be a fundamental rewrite of ray mechanics, so why not fix them "right".

Would be nice if casters could take ray focus & specialization like pnp though. Could open threat and crit mechanics to rays as well.

Rodasch
01-05-2011, 12:00 AM
give monsters a mana bar.

This. 100% this.

Lorien_the_First_One
01-05-2011, 12:12 AM
Pnp rules the blunt damage from meteor swarm is like all ray attacks - requires a touch (ac) attack. DDO has no touch attacks.

Making meteor swarm auto hit an area has no logic - a rock - that is moving towards you, cannot be evaded, dodged?

But you can dodge them by... DODGING. MOVE a little. DDO decided to do away with the touch roll and base it on actual player movement/physics in order to make the game interactive. Rays can be physically dodged, try it some time.

Riggs
01-05-2011, 12:54 PM
But you can dodge them by... DODGING. MOVE a little. DDO decided to do away with the touch roll and base it on actual player movement/physics in order to make the game interactive. Rays can be physically dodged, try it some time.

I would make some kind of comment about how often that actually works in DDO, or how irrelevant your claim is in raids where meteor swarm is used often....but then that might be mean and we cant have now now can we.