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Diarden
01-03-2011, 05:14 PM
What constitutes a raid? By definition it could be something as simple as a larger scale attack on a particular target, minute in my mind. In DDO, the maximum size is 12, understandably so, but why not bigger?

I come from a background of old school EQ gamers, when raids were raids. I never understood why other games shunned the large scale raids after Blizzard discontinued the 40 man sizes back when BC came out. I couldn't fathom the thought process to do away with larger scale raids. Was it to conform to the casual player that brought in more proceeds than us elites?

Turbine. I implore you, look into some type of larger scale raid. For the sake of my sanity and others with the same past experiences. I would be overjoyed for an 18 man raid, and larger if possible. The concepts are out there, the possibilities are endless.

Just a suggestion.

RATRACE931
01-03-2011, 05:15 PM
I disagree, the only way turbine can facilitate a 12 man raid is by bumping a raid bosses HP to an absolutely rediculous point, and tossing out blanket immunities to trash mobs we STILL destroy... 18 man raid would be more of the same just with more people swinging, also we would undoubtedly see a reoccurance of DPS lag.

Diarden
01-03-2011, 05:21 PM
I disagree, the only way turbine can facilitate a 12 man raid is by bumping a raid bosses HP to an absolutely rediculous point, and tossing out blanket immunities to trash mobs we STILL destroy... 18 man raid would be more of the same just with more people swinging, also we would undoubtedly see a reoccurance of DPS lag.

See, I find issues with this right away....

Back in the old EQ days, there were so many types of raid bosses that Verant and later Sony had to get creative. A lot can happen in a raid that isn't just tank and spank.

- A variation of Abbot where the raid is split into three sections, convening occasionally for certain tasks...
- Instances where certain members of the raid must complete tasks during the boss fight, a variation of Titan raid

just a couple examples where you dont just run in and fight a boss straight up. This could be taken to whole new levels.

aristarchus1000
01-03-2011, 05:35 PM
I think 12 is a nice size. Everyone contributes, it requires coordination.

I think forcing larger raid sizes will just make that content exclusive to larger guilds and "hard-core" players without necessarily adding to the enjoyment of the game. I'm part of a large guild, and we still have trouble filling all 12 spots at times. Albeit it's filled with casual players, but to me that's the point.

I remember 40 man raids. I don't miss them.

FrozenNova
01-03-2011, 05:39 PM
I'm afraid my keyboard just doesn't have that many function keys.
There is nothing futher to be gained from larger raiding groups beyond more waiting, more difficulties in co-ordinating, more liabilities and more outrageous hitpoint values.

Crazyfruit
01-03-2011, 05:43 PM
You missed one a couple months ago. Halloween had a 24 person or so Spectral Dragon area

It also caused the server to lag like hell, or something related to it... :(

Diarden
01-03-2011, 05:49 PM
Thus the pleasure of large scale raiding is lost by most, and reminisced by those that are left.

I long to catch up with the good ol' days with others of like mind from the pits of Verant. Alas, where are my brethren?

Musouka
01-03-2011, 06:23 PM
I don't disagree. As they have shown that it is possible to organize something of a 12+ raid with the Mabar event and the spectral dragon fights.

NaturalHazard
01-03-2011, 06:29 PM
What constitutes a raid? By definition it could be something as simple as a larger scale attack on a particular target, minute in my mind. In DDO, the maximum size is 12, understandably so, but why not bigger?

I come from a background of old school EQ gamers, when raids were raids. I never understood why other games shunned the large scale raids after Blizzard discontinued the 40 man sizes back when BC came out. I couldn't fathom the thought process to do away with larger scale raids. Was it to conform to the casual player that brought in more proceeds than us elites?

Turbine. I implore you, look into some type of larger scale raid. For the sake of my sanity and others with the same past experiences. I would be overjoyed for an 18 man raid, and larger if possible. The concepts are out there, the possibilities are endless.

Just a suggestion.

imagine the lag in shroud............ and other places.

mtnlma
01-03-2011, 06:33 PM
Actually coming directly from EQ to DDo i have to say that the raiding here is much much more enjoyable. I will never again attend a 54 man raid and clear for hours to see 3 pieces of caster loot!

Angelus_dead
01-03-2011, 06:44 PM
What constitutes a raid? By definition it could be something as simple as a larger scale attack on a particular target, minute in my mind. In DDO, the maximum size is 12, understandably so, but why not bigger?
There's an insurmountable technical obstacle in the number of players that the client can handle onscreen at once, but even if that was avoided it would still be a bad design.

The 12-player raids DDO has now are already too big for good gameplay. Every raid currently in DDO would be more fun if it was rebalanced as a 6-player instance. That is especially true for puzzle-script raids (VON6, Titan, Reaver, Abbot, Hound), but also the case for the battle raids (Laliat, Shroud, VOD, TOD, Chron).

Yes, it is hypothetically possible to adjust DDO so that 12-player encounters work well, but that would be (at minimum) an enormous amount of design effort... quite unrealistic considering how many other things the designers haven't got working right yet.

It's also interesting to look at the history of WOW and how they changed the raid size. They started out with 40-player, which was terrible, so they cut it down to a choice of 10 or 25. And that's from a game system with intrinsically less player mobility, making the gameplay more managable with a big group.

sweez
01-03-2011, 07:06 PM
I don't disagree. As they have shown that it is possible to organize something of a 12+ raid with the Mabar event and the spectral dragon fights.

Yeah, they've shown that it's "possible", they've also shown that it'll lag not only everything else in the game, but probably also the computers down in Turbine's accounting that aren't even on the same network as the servers.

Gorbadoc
01-03-2011, 07:12 PM
I don't disagree. As they have shown that it is possible to organize something of a 12+ raid with the Mabar event and the spectral dragon fights.

... And that's one thing I liked about the spectral dragon fight. It hinted at what it's like being in a 24-player instance. Personally, I didn't see anything good about it. It was okay, but the fact that I was relying on several other roomfuls of people didn't seem to enhance OR detract from the quality of the experience.

I did like that players were somewhat separated; it wasn't all one big boring cluster of DPS like so many other raids are. If Turbine does a 24-player quest, though, I'll want a somewhat more unifying event than tossing a cakewalk dragon from group to group.