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Salvidrim
12-29-2010, 04:43 PM
Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0

Klîrsyt Igentîum
Level 20 True Neutral Dwarf Male
(6 Fighter \ 2 Barbarian \ 12 Ranger)
Hit Points: 392
Spell Points: 178
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 23
Reflex: 16
Will: 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 18 28
Dexterity 13 20
Constitution 16 22
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 13 16
Charisma 6 6

Tomes Used
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Ranger)


Level 11 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Ranger)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Barbarian)


Level 20 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Kensei Dwarven Waraxe Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II






BUILD INCLUDES NO EQUIPMENT WHATSOEVER.


-Characteristics/Requirements:
-Dwarf
-True Neutral
-Not splashing Monk
-Using Two Dwaxes
-Not predominantly caster-oriented: no UMD, not a healer, not a support. Crappy skills.


Options:
- If you would rather have an extra feat than 2Brb, make it 12Rgr/8Fgt
- The splash could be Rogue if you decide to get more INT & Skills. Rage from clickies anyways.
- Could swap out the Armor Mastery stuff for less Dex-to-AC and more FE-offense, especially if you don't get much Dex or wear Mithral.
- Could also swap out some of the Toughness line (heck even the feat) for something else.
- If AP left after swapped out some things, consider: FE-Offense, Dwarf Spell Def., Energy.ot.Wild (for more SP).
- Skills at the player's liberty, I decided to forgo Balance for better Heal (got a few static squishies who need it) and Jump well. Bouncy Dwarf FTW.
- Could get more INT if you intend to be "skilled" or Splash Rogue at first level instead of Barb.
- Could take PA earlier and wait for OTWF until later levels.
- The 3rd FE could be either of: Giants, Constructs, Giants, Elementals. I personally chose Giants for Dwarf flavor.
- You could choose 12Rgr/7Fgt/1Brb instead for access to a few more Fighter enhacements.
- Could take +4 Tomes and drop some Enhancements.
- Could take a Barbarian level earlier.


Changes:

- Swapped out TWD & Power.Crit for PA & Quick Draw, as per suggestions.
- Corrected when the tomes are eaten.
- Played around with some Enhancements... considering re-specing is kind of affordable I do this in-game every few days anyways.
- Dropped the Full Plate altogether for a Chain Shirt.
- Changed 12/7/1 to 12/6/2 after realizing that 7th level of Fighter gave me positively nothing (except Haste III), while 2Brb gives me more Enhancement access, and more goodies, and some more saves.

-----------------





Feedback welcome and desired. I have no desire to change the "requirements". I am aware that I would be more efficient in a robe with a Monk splash. I decide wear armor.

I hate Kopeshes. I'm a Dwarf, for Balinor's sake, not a puny Elf or vain Human.

issiana
12-29-2010, 05:18 PM
interesting concept,

drop the fullplate for light armor so you can get the rangers evasion from lvl 9 ranger to work. that just means a mithril medium armor, or light armor etc. Some of the medium armor styles would suit a viking style warriror to so dont think viking has to = Full plate.

Jiipster
12-29-2010, 05:32 PM
Drop TWD for Power Attack, drop Power Critical for Quick Draw.

Otherwise it looks like a good flavor build.

Salvidrim
12-29-2010, 05:56 PM
@Issiana: Viking is just a name, I could've called with Killstuff Faceripper for the same effect. I insist on wearing Full Plate. This built is made with that in consideration. :)

@Jiipster: I hesitated a lot for TWD... for some reason I don't like PA? I'd rather hit more than harder (though admittedly I would hit on just about anything but a one...). Considering it is a Stance (thus possible to turn-off for High AC baddies) I ackowledge it is best.

Power Critical is indeed redundant (especially in light of the Crit.Accuracy Enh. for Kensai I), but Quick Draw, really? I admit I switch back and forth from my bows<>Dwaxes, but I don't feel the delay that much. Maybe Cleave? Or something to make up for saves... I dunno, those last few feats were really hard to pick.

I might also drop Power Critical for PA and keep TWD... I'm just not too convinced of the usefulness of Quick Draw. =/

Zilta
12-29-2010, 06:23 PM
quickdraw lowers the cooldown on action boosts like haste boost

Salvidrim
12-29-2010, 06:26 PM
REALLY?

I see. I will definitely take it. Does it decrease the CD timer on clickies with multiple uses also?

Feithlin
12-30-2010, 12:55 AM
Actually, Quick draw reduces the time for action boosts to activate from 1.2s to 0.6s, which means you gain 0.6s dps on each action boost. It doesn't affect the cooldown though.
IMO, Dodge is better than TWD. It also gives +1 AC, but that also works, which TWD does not. They're both weak feats, because you won't reach a significant AC at higher level.

Salvidrim
12-30-2010, 02:11 AM
Already got Dodge for the Tempest line, remember? :)

So basically I have +/- 2 feat slots. Choice are (apart from the all the standard, regular feats): Power Critical, TWD, PA (etc.), an additional Toughness maybe?

I will go with PA it seems, thus one slot open for TWD/PowCrit/Misc... other suggestions welcome though. :p

Feithlin
12-30-2010, 03:20 AM
Already got Dodge for the Tempest line, remember? :)


Oops lol !
PA is mandatory for any melee dps. For the 2nd, I see 3 possibilities: 1° (the best imo) Stunning blow, because with your Str and the possibility to raise your DC (up to +6 with +3 with Fighter enh. and +3 from Dwarf enh.) to very nice score, which will still be useful in epic; 2° Quick draw, as mentioned in a previous post; 3° IC: piercing, for the ability to use very efficiently banishing or puncturing rapiers.
I would also replace Luck of Heroes with one of those.

Salvidrim
12-30-2010, 03:27 AM
I really considering taking Quick Draw (which I presume also reduces the time needed to swap weapons.)

I am kind of not in favour of Stunning Blow.. I tend to dislike active, offensive, directional powers (vs. action boosts). Part of the reason I hate being a offensive spellcaster, don't use de-buff clickies, etc.

As for using anything but Dwaxes & Bows, that would need to be an extremely dire need, for the same reasons I prefer a Full Plate.... really, a Dwarf... with Rapiers? You must be mad! ^^"

Seem's I'll go PA & Quick Draw... will re-draft the build tonight. :)

Kriogen
12-30-2010, 05:28 AM
...I insist on wearing Full Plate. ...
Ranger key perk is Evasion. Evasion does not work with heavy or medium armor.

Roll a fighter, paladin if you really want full plate. If you are not a dedicated 'tank' (fighter, paladin, defender or monk-splash), you'll not get any usefull AC anyway.

You are right about Dwarf and toothpicks. Blah. Axe. maybe hammer, but deffo not toothpicks. Thats for skinny elfs. But ranger and plate do not mix.

Oh, some light armors look very metalic. And Barkskin will 'hide' anything. Plus devs are starting to add cosmetic armor if you want plate for looks only.

Swedishchef
12-30-2010, 05:43 AM
This is from a real viking.

+3 Tomes are min lvl 11 unless you have some specials tomes laying around.

Vikings never wore full plates, we killed stupid saxons etc using that **** or were never using toothpicks*. (this fact will not stop you using on for your build)

Salvidrim
12-30-2010, 11:37 AM
@Kryogen: Thanks for... the comments, but as I said before, this build is centered on using a Full Plate.


@Swedishchef: Really? I wasn't sure what level they were, will make sure to correct that. :)

And yes, I guess Viking wore more Hide Armor than Full Plates. ;)

EDIT: Build updated to reflect upon suggestions. Still thinking I could do away with the Luck of Heroes feat..

Heck, I could even go 12/6/2 and have one less feat slot in favor of one more Barb level. Whaddy'all think?

hermespan
12-30-2010, 11:56 AM
@Issiana: Viking is just a name, I could've called with Killstuff Faceripper for the same effect. I insist on wearing Full Plate. This built is made with that in consideration. :)

@Jiipster: I hesitated a lot for TWD... for some reason I don't like PA? I'd rather hit more than harder (though admittedly I would hit on just about anything but a one...). Considering it is a Stance (thus possible to turn-off for High AC baddies) I ackowledge it is best.

Power Critical is indeed redundant (especially in light of the Crit.Accuracy Enh. for Kensai I), but Quick Draw, really? I admit I switch back and forth from my bows<>Dwaxes, but I don't feel the delay that much. Maybe Cleave? Or something to make up for saves... I dunno, those last few feats were really hard to pick.

I might also drop Power Critical for PA and keep TWD... I'm just not too convinced of the usefulness of Quick Draw. =/

PA is a must. It's worth noting that you should take other feats before you can hit a lot with PA running. It's definitely advantageous to hold off til lower mid levels and take other stuff that adds dps before then since you probably won't hit a lot with PA running at low level. Then again this is a max str build ;-)

the only time I don't run PA at cap is against red named bosses and when vorpalling or banishing. Epics if things are going well (being held a lot) I'll use it. It's on a lot and I get a ton of use out of the feat, more than any other active feat just about.

Salvidrim
12-30-2010, 12:28 PM
Hmm, well then I might keep the order (instead of swapping with OTWF as I was thinking).. excellent point.

Build updated, pretty much. I am not too sure about the levelling order either, that 12th lvl of Ranger comes extremely late for no valid reason.

Ssmooth
12-30-2010, 12:36 PM
Not utilizing the single most powerful feat in the game, ie: Evasion for the simple reason of, "I require full plate." seems pretty rediculous.

If your not going to use evasion, get rid of all ranger levels and replace with either barb or fighter.

Salvidrim
12-30-2010, 12:40 PM
I kind of don't like it when I state "This build is made to wear a Full Plate, forgoing Evasion, discuss with it in consideration", and all some people (not all, mind you! :)) find to say is "This sucks, you lose Evasion."

I knew even before I started that I would, and it was a conscious, personal decision. I thank you for your concern about my mental health for being a Ranger in Full Plate, and will again repeat: Full Plate. If you can discuss and offer suggestions that do not include not wearing a Full Plate, go ahead, I'm all ears! Others have, I cannot imagine it'd be too painful, eh? =D

Ssmooth
12-30-2010, 12:45 PM
I kind of don't like it when I state "This build is made to wear a Full Plate, forgoing Evasion, discuss with it in consideration", and all some people (not all, mind you! :)) find to say is "This sucks, you lose Evasion."

I knew even before I started that I would, and it was a conscious, personal decision. I thank you for your concern about my mental health for being a Ranger in Full Plate, and will again repeat: Full Plate. If you can discuss and offer suggestions that do not include not wearing a Full Plate, go ahead, I'm all ears! Others have, I cannot imagine it'd be too painful, eh? =D

Without evasion, what benefit does a ranger do better than a fighter or barbarian? Less dps, less hp, less ac(fighter), lower str, fewer feats, for the option to cast some resists and have some FE damage??

If it's just for fun, then great. It's by no means optimal nor near competetive dps.

eonfreon
12-30-2010, 01:05 PM
I kind of don't like it when I state "This build is made to wear a Full Plate, forgoing Evasion, discuss with it in consideration", and all some people (not all, mind you! :)) find to say is "This sucks, you lose Evasion."

I knew even before I started that I would, and it was a conscious, personal decision. I thank you for your concern about my mental health for being a Ranger in Full Plate, and will again repeat: Full Plate. If you can discuss and offer suggestions that do not include not wearing a Full Plate, go ahead, I'm all ears! Others have, I cannot imagine it'd be too painful, eh? =D

I've seen many Mithral Breast Plates that look similar to Full Plate. It still looks lke big bulky metal armor and allows you to make use of Evasion.

You don't have to use robes to get Evasion. Chain mail also looks cool and works with Evasion.

It just doesn't seem worth it to get 12 levels of Ranger if you're not going to make use of Evasion. You might as well take more levels of Fighter or Barbarian at that point.

Ssmooth
12-30-2010, 01:06 PM
I've seen many Mithral Breast Plates that look similar to Full Plate. It still looks lke big bulky metal armor and allows you to make use of Evasion.

You don't have to use robes to get Evasion. Chain mail also looks cool and works with Evasion.

It just doesn't seem worth it to get 12 levels of Ranger if you're not going to make use of Evasion. You might as well take more levels of Fighter or Barbarian at that point.

Dis one tyme, I read a thread before posting a redudantly :D

eonfreon
12-30-2010, 01:12 PM
Dis one tyme, I read a thread before posting a redudantly :D

How so? I didn't see you mention MBP.

Ssmooth
12-30-2010, 01:21 PM
How does mentioning MBP change your arguement for the use of evasion vs other arguments that were made?

Salvidrim has already stated that FP is one of the requirements of his build and that he knows all about evasion and doesn't care for it in this build......

eonfreon
12-30-2010, 01:37 PM
How does mentioning MBP change your arguement for the use of evasion vs other arguments that were made?

Salvidrim has already stated that FP is one of the requirements of his build and that he knows all about evasion and doesn't care for it in this build......

He doesn't say exactly why it must be Full Plate. If it's simply for looks, there are MBP that look like Full Plate and allow Evasion to function.

And no, I'm not going to read a whole thread all the time before making a comment. Even when I read most of it, I still can miss a comment here or there.

Ssmooth
12-30-2010, 01:42 PM
He doesn't say exactly why it must be Full Plate. If it's simply for looks, there are MBP that look like Full Plate and allow Evasion to function.

And no, I'm not going to read a whole thread all the time before making a comment. Even when I read most of it, I still can miss a comment here or there.

It was not even ONE page when you posted...... It's not like a thread that's on pg. 26 and you missed a lot.

I'm not sayin...I'm just sayin.

/Thread de-rail off

eonfreon
12-30-2010, 01:51 PM
It was not even ONE page when you posted...... It's not like a thread that's on pg. 26 and you missed a lot.

I'm not sayin...I'm just sayin.

/Thread de-rail off

Still not sure of your point.

Salvidrim
12-30-2010, 05:45 PM
To answer the question, I have a Rgr/Rog hybrid that does use Evasion & TWF in no armor, but it's a completely different thing I'm going for here. I felt like playing a TWF Dwaxes Dwarf in FP, and made a build revolving around that. Might go for Mithral anyways from a Max Dex viewpoint, but it would still be medium.

Kriogen
12-31-2010, 02:56 AM
To answer the question, I have a Rgr/Rog hybrid that does use Evasion & TWF in no armor, but it's a completely different thing I'm going for here. I felt like playing a TWF Dwaxes Dwarf in FP, and made a build revolving around that. Might go for Mithral anyways from a Max Dex viewpoint, but it would still be medium.
Dwarven Fighter (Kensai) with starting DEX 15. With maybe a small splash of something else.

You only need to realocate 3 build points (DEX 13 -> 15), get +2 DEX tome and you can take full TWF line. Plus Fighter/Kensai has higher melee damage output then Ranger.

I'd go primary Fighter. Why roll another Ranger if you already have a Ranger?

Main reason for oposition is that you want Ranger (evasion warrior) with Full Plate. Warrior and not-evasion is Fighter, Barbarian or Paladin.

Salvidrim
12-31-2010, 12:37 PM
I also want all the bow feats. But mostly because I am 10Rgr/1Fgt and have no intention of TR'ing. For now.

But from all the comments I agree: will probably TR this into a Fgt (pure, or maybe Fgt/Brb) at some point, depending how I can work around the feats.

Salvidrim
01-10-2011, 01:59 AM
After some fooling around, it seems I might go for a tad more Dex. I am trying out a Chain Shirt and it gives me pretty much the same AC, + Evasion.

Does the Monk Wis-to-AC bonus work in light armor and TWF? Does it have anything to do with centered, or whatnot? (Never played a Monk).

Lobster5
01-10-2011, 05:07 AM
After some fooling around, it seems I might go for a tad more Dex. I am trying out a Chain Shirt and it gives me pretty much the same AC, + Evasion.

Does the Monk Wis-to-AC bonus work in light armor and TWF? Does it have anything to do with centered, or whatnot? (Never played a Monk).

No it doesn't work in any armour.

However on the build you're proposing a chain shirt comes out ~1ac less than full plate anyway. Wear light armour, Evasion is the breadth of the universe better than 1 AC.

MoreIdiotThanSavant
01-10-2011, 06:28 AM
Plus, in a chainshirt, your "Viking" will be dressing historically correct!

Salvidrim
01-11-2011, 09:43 PM
@MoreIdiotthanSavatn: I thought I had already established that historical accuracy was irrelevant and the the "Viking" name was nor meant to be accurate, just kind of representative. ;)

@Lobster, and everyone else: Indeed, and in addition to pretty much the same AC + Evasion, I get more Enhancements (because of having to spend less on MaxDex boosters.)

Will Edit the build shortly. :)

EDIT: Done. Also changed to 12/6/2 instead of 12/7/1... wish I could edit the Thread's title. Will be reposted entirely with TR at some point anyhow. Thanks all for the help.

Feithlin
01-12-2011, 12:41 AM
- Changed 12/7/1 to 12/6/2 after realizing that 7th level of Fighter gave me positively nothing (except Haste III), while 2Brb gives me more Enhancement access, and more goodies, and some more saves.


Well, Haste III is a big plus. That's actually why ppl get fighter 7 instead of 6 in builds. You gain 5% alacrity, cumulative with haste on all your haste boosts. IMO, it's worth more than the rage enhancements you get at level 2 barb and the +1 con, but that's my opinion.

maha0201
01-12-2011, 01:57 AM
I would swap FE: EO with FE: Giant - iirc all ogres and trolls are considered giants so that should do you more good at lvl 6 (redwillow, gwylans, stormcleave...) than evil outisider will at that lvl

my 2 cp

MoreIdiotThanSavant
01-12-2011, 06:27 AM
@Salvidrim: I know that, I was making a joke :P

Salvidrim
01-12-2011, 07:57 AM
Excellent point Maha, thanks! :)

@Feithlin: I have yet to take a final decision on this. :p

shores11
01-12-2011, 08:18 AM
@Issiana: Viking is just a name, I could've called with Killstuff Faceripper for the same effect. I insist on wearing Full Plate. This built is made with that in consideration. :)


I understand it is the name you have chosen for your build and that is your choice. However just thinking out loud (or typing out loud) most naming of builds have some reference to how the character will approach combat and/or interact in a quest. When thinking of a Viking I more closely think of a front line bruiser with expert combat ability maybe in DDO terms maybe some version of a fighter/babarbarian mix. I can't getmy mind around a Viking having anything to do with a ranger and/or evasion. Just my thoughts.

Salvidrim
01-12-2011, 08:20 AM
Keep in mind I did not originally planned on using Evasion! :)

If the name irks you so much, I can just rename it Dwarven Faceripper. >_>

shores11
01-12-2011, 08:26 AM
Keep in mind I did not originally planned on using Evasion! :)

If the name irks you so much, I can just rename it Dwarven Faceripper. >_>

lol - the name does not irk me one bit. You can call it lollypop if you want. I was just pointing out some historical references.

I could make a pure haggle/buff bard with no ability to melee at all (maybe 8 str - extreme example) and call him the terminator if I chose. However most players might just smile at the fact I have called a character that will not be able to kill anything a terminator. My point was just that sometimes build ideas will stick better if the name more appropriately matchs how that will interact with the party/quest.

Salvidrim
01-12-2011, 10:23 PM
I meant viking in the "we rush into combat, raid areas, loot valuables, axe mobs, and yell warcries", which is pretty much my bead and butter. ;)

Rydin_Dirtay
01-13-2011, 06:07 PM
I can't getmy mind around a Viking having anything to do with a ranger and/or evasion. Just my thoughts.

To me, Viking = Ranger or Barbarian. or the odd Skald (Bard). Heck maybe even a Bear Shaman build (Cleric).

Salvidrim
01-13-2011, 08:04 PM
Indeed, Ranger/Barb fully, they were renowned for their brutality, and generally being pagan/close to nature, I would also assume there would be druids/shamans. :)



By no means is that meant to be historically accurate, but rather close to the "common idea" of Vikings. ;)

Thvari
02-17-2011, 11:44 PM
I like the base concept...but why dwarf? Is it for a specific enhancement line or stat boosts?
I'm just curious as a human would net extra feats and skill points for your build.

Salvidrim
02-17-2011, 11:46 PM
Agreed, but on the whole I -want- to go with Dwaxes without spending extra feats, because I do like the Enhancement line, and because skills are not too much of an issue in the build itself at this point. :)