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KreepyKritter
12-23-2010, 10:11 PM
So... with all the buzz surrounding Druids, I thought I'd troll the depths of the forum for a bit of perspective regarding the other classes that might make an appearance in DDO in the (not-so) distant future.

Now, I'm not talking Prestige Classes/Enhancements, I'm talking about fully formed, unique, classes. Sure, we're all hot to get Druids in our sweaty mits, but what about the others?

The other side of this coin is 'We'd really rather the rest of the PrE's were finished first before we start seeing new classes rolled out' or 'Can we have the existing classes fixed first?' and I hear all this and I'm right there with you, but with the advent of the Half-Bloods, I think it bears considering what we (the players) want next in the way of classes.

My top three (please feel free to disagree and share your own) in order of my own personal preference:

1: Druid (Of course)
2: Warlock (Because nothing says lovin' like an eldritch blast to the face)
3: Psionics (Because we all have to dream of something and I dream of controlling YOUR dreams)

xoowak
12-23-2010, 10:52 PM
I think everyone wants druids. Probably my favorite class to play in PnP. I don't really see warlock happening, as it would combine the problems of ranged and arcane DPS. Psionics would be great. I'd particularly like to see psychic warrior, I think psions might be too similar to wizards when translated to DDO.

Besides Druids and PsyWars, I'd like to see Binder and Duskblade.

ProdigalGuru
12-23-2010, 10:56 PM
I have it on good authority that the Devs have solved the polymorph problem, and Druids will be coming sooner than you might think.

ANOTHER class?

I do not really think there is much more room or need for one.

Plenty of room for more races though.

Lithic
12-23-2010, 11:06 PM
I have it on good authority that the Devs have solved the polymorph problem, and Druids will be coming sooner than you might think.

ANOTHER class?

I do not really think there is much more room or need for one.

Plenty of room for more races though.

I have it on bad authority that the Dev working on new classes just got completionist, and will soon have lots of "unfortunate setbacks" in new class development.

Ullysses
12-23-2010, 11:41 PM
1: Druid (Of course)
2: Warlock (Because nothing says lovin' like an eldritch blast to the face)
3: Psionics (Because we all have to dream of something and I dream of controlling YOUR dreams)

1: Druid - Coming "SOON"

2: Warlock - Not familiar with this class from PnP, from what I've seen is similar to the 'Archmage' wizard prestige, I'm sur there are differences, but enough for a totally new class, or maybe another wiz/sorc prestige?

3: Psionics - See this mentioned a lot, but it would take a lot of work, a total new 'spell' line would have to be added, as well as the obvious feats/enhancements. Plus psionic defences added. (Defences/Resists/immunities to all the added spells/abilities) If Druids have taken this long, won't hold my breath for Psionics.

After Druid, I don't really know what other class I'd like to see. The base classes are all here, and finished PRE's will cover pretty much anything I see missing. Psionics would be the next big step, but I'd mostly like to see more races first. Gnome, Tiefling, etc.

Stormanne
12-23-2010, 11:45 PM
Given the setting, I think most players would like to see artificers. Especially is there are to be any changes to how crafting is done in DDO...

Aashrym
12-23-2010, 11:45 PM
Artificer

Nightsun33
12-24-2010, 12:05 AM
Artificer

/signed

Illiain
12-24-2010, 12:31 AM
1: Druid - Coming "SOON"

2: Warlock - Not familiar with this class from PnP, from what I've seen is similar to the 'Archmage' wizard prestige, I'm sur there are differences, but enough for a totally new class, or maybe another wiz/sorc prestige?

3: Psionics - See this mentioned a lot, but it would take a lot of work, a total new 'spell' line would have to be added, as well as the obvious feats/enhancements. Plus psionic defences added. (Defences/Resists/immunities to all the added spells/abilities) If Druids have taken this long, won't hold my breath for Psionics.

After Druid, I don't really know what other class I'd like to see. The base classes are all here, and finished PRE's will cover pretty much anything I see missing. Psionics would be the next big step, but I'd mostly like to see more races first. Gnome, Tiefling, etc.

Warlock is an arcane damage class with a Bard chassis. d6hp, average BAB, good Will saves, simple weapons, light armor (with no arcane penalty similar to Bards), and UMD. Along with that they get innate resistances and DR similar to FvS. http://bertball.com/MySRD/srd/classes/warlock.htm

They wouldn't have SP. Their powers are all spell-like abilities with no daily limits, so they would all have a short cooldown (standard action to use). They have at most 16 invocations and their Eldritch Blast. If you want to enhance the blast into a burst or cone, you need to take those as some of your 16 available invocations.

Psionics for 3.5 wouldn't be that hard to redo. It was severely revamped after 2nd edition and it's mostly the Arcane list with a different name. The big thing is power points. They could augment their powers by adding more points. It's very similar to how SP+metamagics work currently. The feats are all just reflavored magic feats. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#maximizePower) Defenses are just SR for psionic powers, or Power Resistance.

darktau
12-24-2010, 01:31 AM
This is the list of what I would like to see and sadly why I don't think some are good options for DDO. A small note most of my recent PnP exp has been useing classes from3.X Players Handbook, Complete -(Devine, Warrior, Adventurer, Arcane).

Devine caster:
Druid - comeing "THOON" - (my most played and fav over all class ever sence my older bro introduced me to it back in the TRS days.)

Arcane Caster:
Warlock - (a Fav class of mine) Not a very likely one to be added unless rays are reworked so you can hit a moveing target. Yes they have unlimited spell casting ability but that means little if you can never hit your target due to engine limitations.

The "Eldritch Essences" and "Blast Shape" I could see being added as toggleable like meta magic currently is. Only one Essence and one Shape active at a time. If you are unfamiliar with Warlocks casting it is effectivly one ray spell that is modified by the Essence and Shape.

I almost dont see the Other Invocations that are a limited list of spells a Warlock can cast an Unlimited number of times being added or if added will have long cool down times.

Specialist:
Artificer - It is possibly the defining class of the Ebberon world. I have little experiance with the class, never played it, but looked over the class rules a long time ago. This is the class I think f when I hear Ebberon.

Melee:
Hexblade - (melee and minor arcane caster)
One of my faveroit classes of the 3.5 splat books. I Doubt it would translate well to DDO. The "Hexblade Curse" class ability is likely not to work on bosses for very long or the Hexblade would need to gimp its melee abilities to get the ability to hit. As for the "Aura of Unluck" would simply be a blurr effect with an up to 3/rest castings. Main down side for the class is that the class is supposed to NON-GOOD aligned. I would almost require the spell "Whirling Blade" if this class is added.

Spellsword/Duskblade - As I under stand these classes they are both melee with some arcane casting abilities. Sadly I cant renember too much about the specifics of these classes and dont have the books on me (My DM borrowed them to plan our campaign starting after new years eve hangovers are gone, of can atleast handle the rolling of dice.).

Winter_storm
12-24-2010, 02:14 AM
Was surfing around and saw Dragon Shamen. It would be interesting but then realized the suggested races are kobalds and gnomes. But just the fact your character changes at each level up into something dragonlike would be interesting to see. Though doesn't look practical for the time being.

also saw Spirit Shaman and Samurai.

I think samurai is possible but Spirit Shaman not for sure.

Ullysses
12-24-2010, 02:15 AM
Warlock is an arcane damage class with a Bard chassis. d6hp, average BAB, good Will saves, simple weapons, light armor (with no arcane penalty similar to Bards), and UMD. Along with that they get innate resistances and DR similar to FvS. http://bertball.com/MySRD/srd/classes/warlock.htm

They wouldn't have SP. Their powers are all spell-like abilities with no daily limits, so they would all have a short cooldown (standard action to use). They have at most 16 invocations and their Eldritch Blast. If you want to enhance the blast into a burst or cone, you need to take those as some of your 16 available invocations.

Psionics for 3.5 wouldn't be that hard to redo. It was severely revamped after 2nd edition and it's mostly the Arcane list with a different name. The big thing is power points. They could augment their powers by adding more points. It's very similar to how SP+metamagics work currently. The feats are all just reflavored magic feats. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#maximizePower) Defenses are just SR for psionic powers, or Power Resistance.

Guess Warlock could be made to work like bard songs then, or action clickies, depending on how they translate them to DDO. Guess the invocations would be through enhancements like archmage abilities. So that could be an interesting class.

Psionics, even if using SR, would require a reworking of SR in many aspects of the game to not be overpowered. And power resistance would have to be added. Or it could be changed to work on will save or something I suppose. Still seems a lot of development work. As long as it's taken for Druids, I just don't see it any time soon. It's mostly the work to implement it while keeping it balanced with the existing game.

What is the Artificer class? I stopped playing PnP after 3.0, so am not familiar with some of the additions after that.

At work, or I'd just google it ;)

donfilibuster
12-24-2010, 02:45 AM
I think everyone wants druids. Probably my favorite class to play in PnP. I don't really see warlock happening, as it would combine the problems of ranged and arcane DPS. Psionics would be great. I'd particularly like to see psychic warrior, I think psions might be too similar to wizards when translated to DDO.


Everyone wants druids.

Warlock plays like the wizard prestiges, only it don't have spells, it's all blast, SLAs and light melee.
While the building blocks are there, it dun really fit it in any existing class so better have its own.

Psionic's power points were the first points pool used natively by a d&d class and is very much like the spell points we have in ddo.
If we have accepted the spell points variant on ddo there's no reason to not allow power points as well.
Keep in mind that psionic classes *do* have a larger pool of points than arcanes and have an easier time replenishing them.
Wizard lovers need not complain.

darktau
12-24-2010, 02:57 AM
What is the Artificer class? I stopped playing PnP after 3.0, so am not familiar with some of the additions after that.

Short answer "God of UMD". Longer answer a class that has limited magical ability but is based arround makeing magical items. They are able to drain the magic from one item and create a new magic item with powers they want. They can do other things but my friends have burned that drain magic items of all power to make something more usefull for the Artificer into my memory for all time.

Few things are worse then haveing your char to bed, getting attacked in the night, drawing your weapon only to realise the Artificer has drained your "+1 Flameing, Icy, Shocking, Holy Bastard Sword" reduceing it to a common Masterwork Bastard Sword. We were even more upset to realize that the Artificer drained both of our 2 Clerics Holy Symbols. Note the Holy Symbols did have additional magical properties, and the DM considered them to need reattuneing(house rule - carried for 24 hrs) to the Clerics before they could use them.

Hecate100
12-24-2010, 09:48 AM
Druids are probably next to be implemented, but I'd love to play a Duskblade or Dragon Shaman.

rexservorum
12-24-2010, 10:21 AM
Warlocks are gods of UMD/crafting in their own way. :D Full ranks along with...

Deceive Item (4th level)

You may take 10 on Use Magic Device checks.

Imbue Item (12th level)

You may attempt to create a magic item without knowing the spell or spells required (though you still need the right item creation feat, as well as the gp, xp, and time). Roll a Use Magic Device (DC 15 + spell level for arcane spells or 25 + spell level for divine spells). If you succeed, you can make the item; if you fail, you cannot. You may retry this check for that item every time you gain a level.

The second ability is of course irrelevant to DDO, at least for the time being. But I can think of a lot of people who would be quite enthusiastic about the Deceive Item ability. Especially since they are a Charisma-based class (it determines their invocations' DC). They'd have no-fail Raise Dead at UMD 26 and Heal at UMD 30, both of which are achievable by mid-levels with minimal investment into +UMD items on a charismatic, full UMD class.

I can hear the chorus of, "Nerf Warlocks!" already. :D

Illiain
12-24-2010, 11:37 AM
Guess Warlock could be made to work like bard songs then, or action clickies, depending on how they translate them to DDO. Guess the invocations would be through enhancements like archmage abilities. So that could be an interesting class.

Psionics, even if using SR, would require a reworking of SR in many aspects of the game to not be overpowered. And power resistance would have to be added. Or it could be changed to work on will save or something I suppose. Still seems a lot of development work. As long as it's taken for Druids, I just don't see it any time soon. It's mostly the work to implement it while keeping it balanced with the existing game.

What is the Artificer class? I stopped playing PnP after 3.0, so am not familiar with some of the additions after that.

At work, or I'd just google it ;)

As already stated, they are magic item makers. Wizards get metamagic feats to increase their casting. Artificers get the creation feats at specific levels. Their main function is to grind up old useless magic items and can use the magic to create better items. It's typically more efficient than selling the item and using that to buy materials to make something else. They also have access to most of the buff spells that are used in magic item creation. I believe anything they don't have, they can fake, "as if it's on their list".

They can also temporarily enchant arms and armor, such as making a +1 longsword into a +1 undead bane longsword, if they know they're fighting undead that day, or add flaming if you know you're fighting ice creatures.. They're useful in a party for making other players even better.

Aashrym
12-24-2010, 12:48 PM
As already stated, they are magic item makers. Wizards get metamagic feats to increase their casting. Artificers get the creation feats at specific levels. Their main function is to grind up old useless magic items and can use the magic to create better items. It's typically more efficient than selling the item and using that to buy materials to make something else. They also have access to most of the buff spells that are used in magic item creation. I believe anything they don't have, they can fake, "as if it's on their list".

They can also temporarily enchant arms and armor, such as making a +1 longsword into a +1 undead bane longsword, if they know they're fighting undead that day, or add flaming if you know you're fighting ice creatures.. They're useful in a party for making other players even better.

I'll add comment or so to this.

They also get blade barrier, UMD as a class skill, trap skills, and the repair line to repair WF. The class revolves around magic items.

The first time I saw them was with the release of the Eberron setting and they are a core part of the system. In PnP Eberron added magewrights as the NPC lesser version and Artificers as the full PC class. It's the artificers who are responsible for much of the magical industrialization in Eberron and why we have things like airships, lightning rail, and so many constructs.

KreepyKritter
12-24-2010, 01:25 PM
Warlock plays like the wizard prestiges, only it don't have spells, it's all blast, SLAs and light melee.
While the building blocks are there, it dun really fit it in any existing class so better have its own.


Nnnnnngh... not really. The wizard prestiges make a preset selection of spells available as spell-like abilities. Warlocks get spell like abilities like Bards get songs (as has been mentioned). Imagine it like a Bard's fascinate ability... except instead of making Mob's stand around useless, it kills them.

Warlock is as similar to Wizard as Druid is to Cleric in my opinion.

Doxmaster
12-24-2010, 03:31 PM
Warlocks are fun, but let’s think about each of their abilities in game terms.

Really. I’m going to list each and every ability they have or can get and we can deconstruct each of them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eldritch blast (Xd6 of magical damage. Possibly force, possibly untyped…) - Basically Arcane bolt OR the magic missile Spell like ability. Yes, archmage gets two different abilities that approximate the most basic warlock ability and an archmage could have both at the same time, if he wanted.
~~~~~
Eldritch burst (eldritch blast changes from single target to area of effect) –either Arcane blast or the Chain magic missile SLA. Worst than either of those two options, since it can’t be cycled with eldritch blast, but magic missile can be cycled with chain mm. An archmage with chain mm And arcane blast is laughing in the face of all warlocks atm.
~~~~~
Damage reduction (Slow progressing DR/cold iron, up to a max of 5DR/cold iron)- a minor ability that is completely blown out of the water by stoneskin wands AND basically all DR items.
~~~~~
Deceive item (A warlock always rolls 10 or better for UMD checks.)- this could be implemented several ways, but it basically comes out to warlocks rocking at UMD.
~~~~
Fiendish resilience (fast healing 1 for 2 minutes, which can progress up to fast healing 5)- Kind of nice for guarantied healing.
~~~~~
Energy resistance (energy resistance 5 verses 2 elements, which progresses up to energy resistance 10 to those same elements.)- Nothing to write home about.
~~~~
Imbue item (a warlock is able to create magical items without knowing the spells required for that item) Wonderful! Except we don’t have D&D crafting in DDo, so warlocks wouldn’t actually get this ability.
~~~~
At this point, warlock is a good deal behind an archmage wizard except in regard to UMD.

Let’s start on their least invocations. I will omit the obviously impossible ones, such as Spiderwalk and Darkness, since they have absolutely no ingame approximation. Some will have to be ballparked, but those two are obviously not even under consideration.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frightful blast
(– Any creature struck by the invoker’s Eldritch Blast also becomes Shaken for 1 minute (WillNeg). Subsequent Frightful Blasts donot stack, but do reset the duration. Effective Spell Level: 2nd.)
- A minor debuff. Not very useful.
~~~~~
Sickening blast
(– Any creature struck by the invoker’s Eldritch Blast also becomes Sickened for 1 minute.
(FortNeg). Subsequent Sickening Blasts do not stack, but do reset the duration. Effective Spell Level: 2nd.)
-Another minor debuff. Not very useful.
~~~~~
Eldritch Spear
(– The maximum range of the invoker’s Eldritch Blast increases to 250’ with no range increment.
Effective Spell Level: 2nd.)
-the enlarge metamagic, for eldritch blast only. Somewhat useful.
~~~~~
Hideous Blow
(– As a Standard Action, make one melee attack. If the hit is successful (even if it does not
damage), then treat the opponent as if he/she were also hit with the invoker’s Eldritch Blast (including any special effects due to Eldritch Essence invocations).
Effective Spell Level: 1st.)
-the warlock makes a single attack and, if it hits, eldritch blast is applied as well as normal damage. This is a crude approximation of sneak attack that affects basically everything.
~~~~~
Baleful utterance
( By speaking a syllable of Dark Speech, the invoker chooses one of the following to occur:
a) all non-magic glass, crystal, etc., in a 5’ radius Burst that weigh less than 1 lb/lvl
are shattered. An attended object gets a Will save to negate. Otherwise, no save.
b) a single solid object weighing up to 10 pounds per level can be shattered. An
attended object gets a Will save to negate. If an attended object was destroyed, then the
creature touching it must make a Fortitude save of be Dazed for 1 round and Deafened
for 1 minute.
Effective Spell Level: 2nd.)
-Lowers the larget’s AC and/or attack bonus if they fail a will save, and the target is dazed for 6 seconds. This is actually pretty nice.
~~~~
Beguiling influence
(– The invoker receives a +6 bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, & Intimidate checks.
Effective Spell Level: 2nd.)
-self buff that gives a bonus to bluff, diplomacy and intimidate. This would be fairly nice for an Intimi-tank warlock, which would be an interesting niche to see them fill.
~~~~~

Breath of the Night
– Creates a 20’ radius Spread by 20’ high area of mist around the invoker, which grants Concealment to everyone within it. Does not block Line-of-Sight.
The mist dissipates in 1 minute, or can be
dispersed immediately by a Moderate wind or the fire of a torch.
Effective spell level 1st.)
-this is Obscuring mist, the arcane spell. It is useless.
~~~~~
Dark one’s own luck
(The invoker receives a luck bonus to one saving throw equal to his/her charisma modifier (up to his/her class level). To change which saving throw benefits, the invoker must first dismiss the current effect as a standard action.
Effective spell level: 2nd)
-Makes incredible saves easily achievable.
~~~~~~
Earthen grasp
– A Medium-sized arm of soil rises from the targeted hex of earth or sand. It attempts to Grapple any creature in its hex or one that is
adjacent. If not directed by the invoker, it attacks randomly. The arm has a Strength of 14 + 1 per three invoker levels. The arm can make one
Grapple attempt per round and does generate an Attack of Opportunity. If successful, it attempts to Pin the target, which does (1d6+Strength modifier) hp of lethal damage each round The arm has AC 15, Hardness 4, and 3 hp per Invoker level.
Effective Spell Level: 2nd.)
Earth grab, copied straight from earth elementals.
~~~~~~
Entropic warding
(the invoker is surrounded by chaotic energies. Ranged attacks that target the invoker have a 20% miss chance.
Effective spell level: 2nd)
-Blur, for ranged attacks only.
~~~~~~
Leaps and bounds
(the invoker receives a +6 on balance, jump and tumble checks.
Effective spell level: 2nd)
A weak jump, tumble and balance buff that only applies to the warlock himself.
~~~~~
Miasmic cloud
(the invoker creates a 2-‘ spread of mist, which grants concealment to anyone who enters it’s area. All creatures, excluding the invoker, within the mist become fatigued (fort save negates, spell resistance applies) until 1 round after then leave the area of effect. The mist dissipates in 1 minute, or can be dispersed by a moderate wind or the fire of a torch.
Effective spell level: 2nd)
-a very good spell if it isn’t able to harm allies; this is roughly waves of fatigue, with a fort save added on. At a low level too. If it CAN harm allies, it is a terrible spell.
~~~~
See the unseen
(the invoker gains darkvision 60’ and can see invisible creatures and objects within his/her range of vision.
Effective spell level: 2nd.)
-roughly the same as true seeing. Self only.
~~~~
Summon swarm
(simmons either a swarm of bats, or a swarm of spiders. The swarm attacks any creature within it’s area The invoker has no control over the swarm’s movement or target.
Effective spell level: 2nd)
-Summons an unfriendly swarm of spiders or rats. This would not be appreciated.
~~~~
Voice of madness
(one target is confused.
Effective spell level: 2nd)
-I’m not sure what this would be like, to be honest.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A mixed bag; a few of the least invocations really stand out and a few more have situational usefulness, but the vast majority are useless. A warlock could pick Earthen grasp, Baleful Utterance and either Dark One’s own luck or Beguiling influence if they want to be an Intimi-tank and never miss any of the other options..

I’ll do lesser, greater and dark invocations later.

Wren666
12-25-2010, 02:11 AM
An "anti-mage" melee class like the Samurai, (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=282102) or preferably, something homegrown - see sig ↓ :D

FoxCourier
12-25-2010, 10:45 AM
I'll be fine with whatever they add in, but I'd really prefer they add in more Eberron themed things. At the moment, tops on my list are any Psionic classes (most specifically Psion and Soulknife, both of which are central to Eberron lore around the Inspired and Quroi - and the kalashtar, but they're not in yet so that's not as big of a thing). Psion would probably be the easiest thing to add in as Just Another Mage (given the SR = PR system tabletop Eberron uses), especially since we already do have Psionic bonuses floating around (Titan's Grip gives a Psionic bonus to Strength, and a lot of the Dreaming Dark named items state they're psionic - and we have Riedran Crystal items in game as well) if they increase the spell points to x10 to match what we currently have (or keep it 1-for-1 as it is in Tabletop, I'm just thinking it would be easier for heavy Spellcaster players to deal with it being x10 to bring it up to the same numbers-per-power usage that Wizards, Sorcerers, Clerics, Bards, and Favored Souls use) and possibly add in a Base Feat system similar to Favored Soul that gives them special bonuses with certain powers (Telepathy gets a bonus with Telepathic powers, Psychometabolism gets a bonus with Psychometabolism powers, etc.). They wouldn't necessarily need to let you get bonus powers to your list this way either if they just added a small bonus (+DC on a slow rate, maybe?). They could even let them work with the Arcane feats, I suppose, since most of the psionic versions are the exact same just with the +Psionic flag only. I'm not sure if they can add the +Psionic flag to the current feat list easily, though.

...that's a huge block of text. Sorry, I couldn't think of a good way to break it up. A lot of feat/enhancement support would have to go into it though to add in Psionic feats, but they could also do that over multiple updates instead of dropping the bomb all at once, and they also don't really need to add in *all* of the Psionic classes in one shot either (start with the Psion and it's feat/enhance support, which is more closed off and close to, functionally, something like the Sorcerer, and then move into something like Psychic Warrior [personally meh, but hey, whatever], Wilder [build mostly off of Psion], and Soulknife [seperate feat/enhance support, but also closed off]).

Doxmaster
12-30-2010, 03:54 PM
Lesser invocations-
---------------------
Beshadowed blast (Any creature struck by the invoker’s eldritch blast also becomes Blind of 1 round (fort negates. SR applies. Effective spell level: 4th)- this is rather nice invocation as it both harms and debuffs the enemy. Unfortunately, the duration leaves much to be desired.
---
Brimstone blast (the invoker’s eldritch blast does fire damage (Instead of untyped damage). In addition, any creature struck by the attack may catch fire (reflex save negates). Catching fire in this way lasts for up to one round per five warlock levels and does 2d6 fire damage per round. Effective spell level: 3rd)- A decent damage essence, with a weak Dot tacked on.
---
Hellrime blast (the invoker’s eldritch blast does Cold damage instead of untyped damage. In addition, any creature struct by the attack receives a -4 penalty to dexterity for 10 minutes (fort negates). Effective spell level: 3rd.)- Another damage+debuff ability.
---
Eldritch chain (if the eldritch blast hits its initial target, the invoker may attempt to hit a secondary target who is within 30 feet of the initial target. If the blast hits again, the invoker may attempt to jump to another secondary target, up to a total of one secondary target per 5 levels. Secondary targets take half damage. No creature may be affected twice by the same “chain”. Effective spell level: 4th.) – this turns all eldritch blasts, modified to do additional effects or not, into chain magic missile, with half damage and the full normal effect of the evocation.
---
Charm ((Will negates. Duration: permanent. Sr applies) One living creature considers the invoker its ally. Anything the invoker says or does will be treated the same way as if a close friend said or did it. The invoker may only have one target charmed at a time. Charming a new creature automatically ends the effect on the prior target. Effective spell level: 4th)- Charm monster, however it can only be applied to one target at a time.
---
Curse of despair ((Will negates. SR applies. Range: touch) Bestow curse, as per the spell in DDO)- a somewhat minor debuff, since it must be cast at touch range.
---
Flee the scene (Dimension door, as per the DDo spell)-while useful, this would be somewhat of a niche choice, since warlocks have a severely limited selection of spells/spell like abilities to work with.
---
Stone grasp ((Close range. 1round/level. No SR) Earthgrab, as per the earth elemental ability. Does 1d6 damage +2,+ an additional +1 damage per six evoker levels.
---
Voidsense (See invisibility)- fairly useless.
---
Voracious dispelling (dispel magic. Does 1 damage per spell dispelled (no save)- just as useful as dispel magic.
----
Walk unseen (the invoker becomes invisible)- a selfish invisibility spell.
--------------------------
There are several good choices for this tier that could cement a warlock as a DPS character; the ability to do cold damage, fire damage and hit several targets at once. Furthermore, there are several utility abilities that are rather nice in this tier, Stone grasp and charm being the most powerful of them. In DDo a typical DPS warlock would probably be expected to take Eldritch chain, Stone grasp and finally Hellrime blast for sustained damage at high levels and a rather nice autocrit ability.

Greater invocations-
-------------------
Bewitching blast(any creature struct by the invoker’s eldritch blast also becomes confused (Will negates, SR applies) Effective spell level: 4th)-a minor debuff tacked onto the standard eldritch blast. I still do not know how confusion would be handled…
---
Noxious blast (Any creature struck by the invoker’s eldritch blast becomes Nauseated for 1 round (fort negates, SR applies) Effective spell level: 6th)- damage +Debuff
----
Repelling blast (Any creature up to medium-size struck by the invoker’s eldritch blast is also moved 1d6 hexes away from the invoker and falls prone. (reflex save negates, SR applies))- once again, a debuff + damage ability.
Vitriolic blast (the invoker’s eldritch blast does acid damage (instead of untyped) (No save, no SR). In addition, any creature struck by the attack takes 2d6 acid damage for one round per five warlock levels. Effective spell level:6th)- A core DPS ability.
---
Eldritch cone (All creatures within a thirty feet cone take eldritch blast damage and are effective by any additional eldritch blast effect. (Reflex negates, SR applies) effective spell level: 5th)- another core DPS ability, with the same shape as ‘Cone of cold’.
----
Devour magic (‘greater dispel magic’ as per the DDO spell. Grants the invoker (spell level * 5) temporary hit points.)-Dispel magic coupled with a slightly better false life effect.
----
Wall of perilous fire (Wall of fire, as per the current DDO incarnation of the spell)- another core DPS invocation that will be required. Though similar, this is much weaker than one cast by a wizard or sorcerer as Maximize/Empower does not affect its damage.
------------------
Though many will have a knee-jerk reaction to grab Wall of Fire and run for the hills, it is much, much weaker in a warlock’s hands because maximize and empower do not affect it. Eldritch cone and vitriolic blast are much more effective, closely followed by repelling blast for an AOE CC spell.

Falco_Easts
12-30-2010, 06:31 PM
I just want them to add druids so I stop seeing threads begging for them.

My personal choice would be Artificer.

Wraithkin
01-04-2011, 04:55 PM
Personally, no migusta psions. Always have been unbalanced and game breaking. =P Even in Dark Sun.

Martdon
01-04-2011, 05:08 PM
I could definitely see Artificers coming soon.

Angelus_dead
01-04-2011, 05:08 PM
Warlock - (a Fav class of mine) Not a very likely one to be added unless rays are reworked so you can hit a moveing target. Yes they have unlimited spell casting ability but that means little if you can never hit your target due to engine limitations.
Here's the real problem with adding Warlocks to DDO:
A warlock is rather like a sorcerer, with unlimited spells per day but weaker spells and no ability to add metamagic on them.

So, a player can simply test what this would feel like by taking a Sorcerer into battle and only using your weak spells (scorching ray + frost lance) without any Maximize or Empower. Notice how bad your DPS is...

FoxCourier
01-04-2011, 05:12 PM
Personally, no migusta psions. Always have been unbalanced and game breaking. =P Even in Dark Sun.

People always say that about psionics, and they're just as frequently incorrect about it.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/18833134/Myth:_The_XPH_is_overpowered

It's a stupid stereotype, especially if the last time you really want to reference it was in Dark Sun (back in 2nd edition, where the entire psionics system was clunky as all heck and only overpowered because of the sheer lack of investment needed for it).

:P

Uska
01-04-2011, 05:13 PM
Artificer yes warlock please no never liked the class never will and 4E's video is about the only thing I liked about the class. and I hate 4E

FoxCourier
01-04-2011, 05:46 PM
Artificer yes warlock please no never liked the class never will and 4E's video is about the only thing I liked about the class. and I hate 4E

Ignoring the random quantifier of disliking a different edition (play what you like, mate, s'all good as long as we're having fun, right?), what specifically is the problem with the warlock class in particular?

Personally, I sort of like it, but outside of a few niche and/or awesome builds in tabletop it never really did a whole lot for me, and generally did it a lot later then if I had gone with a pure arcane class of some other variety.

Still, it's not exactly as bad as some of the other Complete classes (Warmage was rubbish, and Wu Jen was mostly pointless with wizards in the game already, just from Complete Arcane alone). It at least had some viability on it's own merits.

Aeolwind
01-04-2011, 05:49 PM
I hope it would be Druid->Artificer->Warlock. But I'm not sure I'm keen on Artificer.

Locks would get a boost due to the loaded dice casters have, but just like most casters would pale to melee. Their debuffs would be pointless on bosses unlike PNP where they are actually useful. And thus would most likely be the "token' guy on the raid.

Everyone will have an artificer alt that will never get TR'd (completionists aside), never played a single time after it hits 20 other than to break down items and create new ones. This will be the penultimate definition of alt for most people & will be the suggested starting class for most players due to it's abilities for "feeding" your other characters magic items. BTA would be come Bound Toward Artificer as multiples of named items get crunched down for special effects for new items.

Depending on how the crafting system is handled, I could be totally off base on the above, or I could be just scratching the surface.

But, I don't like the fact that if not handled carefully Artificer would just be a back seat magic machine. Or to the inverse, a gigantic money sink that newer players won't be able to afford due to the fact there are folks with 16 million+ plat that Turbine wants to destroy.

Be careful what you wish for....

Delssar
01-05-2011, 05:33 AM
Hexblade pls
theres only so much I can do with making a "like hexblade" class by multiclassing

Icuonuez
01-07-2011, 02:47 AM
I can't believe I haven't heard any requests of Assassins and Necromancers yet. Shadow powers would create a new feel of the game. Something different. I believe Shamans are way overdue to class options, as well as Druid. What would seperate Warlocks from Sorcerers would be the pacts. I know it's 4E based, and many people don't like 4E, but it would be different for sure to be able to pick what type of warlock you are instead of making it a weak sorcerer. I'd LOVE a warlord. Basically a sword/shield bard that wears heavy armor. I would also like a Warden, but that would make Paladin's slightly useless, lol.
I know this isn't about races, but we need Tieflings! Dragonborn would also be really fun, and high elves would create a diversity. Gnomes would be fun to play as well. I would love a holy striker, also.

FoxCourier
01-07-2011, 03:00 AM
I can't believe I haven't heard any requests of Assassins and Necromancers yet. Shadow powers would create a new feel of the game. Something different. I believe Shamans are way overdue to class options, as well as Druid. What would seperate Warlocks from Sorcerers would be the pacts. I know it's 4E based, and many people don't like 4E, but it would be different for sure to be able to pick what type of warlock you are instead of making it a weak sorcerer. I'd LOVE a warlord. Basically a sword/shield bard that wears heavy armor. I would also like a Warden, but that would make Paladin's slightly useless, lol.
I know this isn't about races, but we need Tieflings! Dragonborn would also be really fun, and high elves would create a diversity. Gnomes would be fun to play as well. I would love a holy striker, also.

...you realize that there's a 3.5 version of the Warlock, and that for the most part Assassins (via Rogue) and Necromancers (via Pale Master) are already in the game for their 3.5 incarnations, right?

Warlord also had a (remarkably bad) 3.5 incarnation from the Miniature's Handbook, and is still not even that great in 4e outside of specific niches.

The only Shaman equivlant was the Spirit Shaman (which is terribawful for a number of reasons), Warden didn't have (nor did it really need) a direct 3.5 version, and even then outside of specific party builds were also really not that much better or worse then Paladins.

Not even going to start on the Race thing, other then stating that it'd probably be a good plan to read the 4e and 3.5 Eberron settings before assuming that they'll be anything like the Core 4e versions (they aren't by a long shot, culturally). High elves, technically, are also already in game in their 3.5 incarnation (Aerenal elves, for example; the Valenar are technically closer to more foresty elves... or about as close as a Mongol-inspired, ancestor worshipping elf can get).

'Badly Misinformed' seems to be a recurring theme in your post. :U

Wren666
01-07-2011, 06:09 AM
...

A warlock is rather like a sorcerer, with unlimited spells per day but weaker spells and no ability to add metamagic on them.

...err... unlimited per day?

so if I rested one day, would I get unlimited x2?
:confused: can I use one of the unlimited all at once and save the other for the boss?

FoxCourier
01-07-2011, 02:48 PM
err... unlimited per day?

so if I rested one day, would I get unlimited x2?
:confused: can I use one of the unlimited all at once and save the other for the boss?

Ignoring if this is facetious or not, here's how Invocations work:

You get X number of Invocation slots - something a bit less then one per level (it caps out at 12 at level 20). You start off with Least, progress into Lesser, then Greater, then Dark (four tiers). When you gain a new Invocation slot, you can use it on any invocation that you can currently learn (so, when you hit 6th and unlock Lesser Invocations, you can then spend any Invocation slot you get after that on Least or Lesser, at your discretion).

Invocations are not really spells - they're Spell-Like Abilities that you can use as often per day as you feel like using them. If you have Earthen Grasp (Earthgrab, effectively), you can use it as often as you like (it's treated as a 2nd level spell for all intents and purposes). If you have, say, Earthen Grasp and Breath of the Night (Fog Cloud), you can use both of them as often as you like.

Some Invocations affect your Eldritch Blast ability - you can use them any time you use your Eldritch Blast, though each Eldritch Blast can only carry two Blast Invocations: One Shape, One Essence. If you have, say... Hellrime Blast (Essence), Brimestone Blast (Essence), and Eldritch Chain (Shape), you can make your Eldritch Blast into a Hellrime Eldritch Chain, or a Brimestone Eldritch Chain, but not a Hellrime Brimestone Eldritch Chain.

Savvy?

Shafmaster2000
01-10-2011, 04:22 AM
Why don't they just wipe the (metric ton of) dust off one of the golden oldies, like the Math Mage? =D

... But to do that they'd first have to either build a time machine or find a way to resurrect the dead, and that would result in either a zombie invasion or an invasion of time-travelling zombies. I can't see either of those ending well, so probably best to leave well enough alone. =)

Ok, now for the serious part.

I am big fan of the 4th Ed. Warlord class, but I'm not familiar with their 3.5 incarnation so I can't speak to it's viability to DDO. While I'd love to see them added to the game, I can honestly say that with a few additions/tweaks to sword & board based combat, warlords would (sadly) be redundant.

The addition of more shield-based powers would increase the viability of using shields. Like a shield charge or an AP line that sacrifices a percentage the shield's effective AC to allow for off-hand shield-strikes whilst attacking. That could be further expanded upon by the inclusion of spiked or bladed shields. That, combined with a warchanting bard with a fighter splash and boom, warlord in every way but name.

Artificers would be a nifty addition, but I understand that their implimentation could be a bit tricky. As I don't know much about the class, I'll leave that discussion to those that do. Psionics, again, gonna leave that to people that are familiar with the class.

In the end, something to keep the balance between the melee, magic and specialty archetypes would probably be for the best.

Templarion
01-10-2011, 04:40 AM
No new stuff until old stuff is fixed.

1) How about making Cleric as good as FvS first?
2) How about balacing Drow and Elf on the level of other useful races?
3) How about tuning Epic difficulty to suit better to people's needs?
4) How about <you name it>.

Uska
01-10-2011, 05:23 AM
Ignoring the random quantifier of disliking a different edition (play what you like, mate, s'all good as long as we're having fun, right?), what specifically is the problem with the warlock class in particular?

Personally, I sort of like it, but outside of a few niche and/or awesome builds in tabletop it never really did a whole lot for me, and generally did it a lot later then if I had gone with a pure arcane class of some other variety.

Still, it's not exactly as bad as some of the other Complete classes (Warmage was rubbish, and Wu Jen was mostly pointless with wizards in the game already, just from Complete Arcane alone). It at least had some viability on it's own merits.

AD said it pretty much in his post warlock is kind of like a weak sauce sorc but with unlimted spells it adds zero to the game.

Uska
01-10-2011, 05:24 AM
No new stuff until old stuff is fixed.

1) How about making Cleric as good as FvS first?
2) How about balacing Drow and Elf on the level of other useful races?
3) How about tuning Epic difficulty to suit better to people's needs?
4) How about <you name it>.

some of this would be more useful than adding more classes this is true.

Uska
01-10-2011, 05:27 AM
I can't believe I haven't heard any requests of Assassins and Necromancers yet. Shadow powers would create a new feel of the game. Something different. I believe Shamans are way overdue to class options, as well as Druid. What would seperate Warlocks from Sorcerers would be the pacts. I know it's 4E based, and many people don't like 4E, but it would be different for sure to be able to pick what type of warlock you are instead of making it a weak sorcerer. I'd LOVE a warlord. Basically a sword/shield bard that wears heavy armor. I would also like a Warden, but that would make Paladin's slightly useless, lol.
I know this isn't about races, but we need Tieflings! Dragonborn would also be really fun, and high elves would create a diversity. Gnomes would be fun to play as well. I would love a holy striker, also.

WE have assassins already warlords are useless really and big hearty no the chesses that is tiefling and dragonborn. well I could see teiflings before dragonborn

FoxCourier
01-10-2011, 02:49 PM
AD said it pretty much in his post warlock is kind of like a weak sauce sorc but with unlimted spells it adds zero to the game.

Eh. I think it could add an interesting niche, but I'm not going to disagree that the spell changes here have made it a somewhat reduced niche. I think the biggest part people would drool over is Decieve Item and the better skill list, as well as the DR added throughout the class. Add on the fact that most of it's damage is (somewhat reduced) nuke-based with effects (Vitrolic Blast was a favorite of mine in tabletop, just for how spammable it was, though Utterdark Blast was also great fun) might still make it great for smaller group or solo play.

I mean, free Fast Healing for a short duration, 10 Energy Resistance.. And that's all before we get into specific invocations.

Wall of Fire with half of the damage being Untyped (and thus unresistable) sounds pretty hot to me. Doubly so considering how Empower/Maximize work in this game (no real need for <X> SLA like in Tabletop, which was a generally inferior version anyway).

I could dig it. I dug it just fine in tabletop - it'd make some people happy, but would it be necessary? Probably not. And it wasn't exactly too themely in Eberron to start with (at least outside of Droam and the Demon Wastes, anyway). It's certainly not a replacement for a proper arcane caster, though.

wsh1973
01-11-2011, 12:04 AM
I would really LOVE to see Anti-Paladin as a new class. I've played evil knights (Shadowknight, Darkknight, Anti-Paladin etc... ) in other games and I really enjoy the class. If it's not really viable as a class, at least consider making a build within the Paladin line. PLEASE?

QuantumFX
01-11-2011, 12:25 AM
1: Druid - Coming "SOON"

No.


1: Druid - Coming SOON™

Yes.

berinea
01-14-2011, 04:13 PM
MINDBLADE (psionic blades in hands)

Wilder (psion is to wizard as wilder is to sorcerer)

kennethgreene
01-14-2011, 04:16 PM
I think it is time that we start bringing in some of the other books, and classes. For me i would love to see them bring out the ninja from complete adventurer. A wonderfull blend of rog/ftr.

berinea
01-14-2011, 04:18 PM
I would really LOVE to see Anti-Paladin as a new class. I've played evil knights (Shadowknight, Darkknight, Anti-Paladin etc... ) in other games and I really enjoy the class. If it's not really viable as a class, at least consider making a build within the Paladin line. PLEASE?

yes a blackguard would be awsome to see!

der_kluge
01-14-2011, 04:28 PM
Blackguard would never be there, because it's an evil class.

My choice: Mystic Theurge, although admittedly it's a prestige enhancement (by DDO's definition). But it would probably be best implemented as a class.

Second and third choice: Scout and Cloistered Cleric

Mystic Theurge might be fairly difficult to implement just because of the spell selection screens. But Scout and Cloistered Cleric (in theory) would be simple to implement. Especially cloistered Clerics.


For reference, here are all the classes from the "Complete" books:

Hexblade
The Hexblade mixes martial prowess with a unique curse ability, the ability to cast arcane spells and good resistance against spells and spell effects. Similar in concept to the sorcerer, the Hexblade is an individual who possesses unnatural jinxes or an evil eye, and uses it towards combat. With a d10 for hit points, a 1/1 base attack bonus advancement, and a very slow spell advancement, the hexblade is more like an arcane ranger or paladin than a bard.

Samurai
The Samurai is a brave and noble warrior, possessing martial prowess and unique abilities to intimidate and terrify his opponents. Like the other classes, the Samurai has a d10 for hit points and a 1/1 base attack bonus advancement. The main drawback to playing a Samurai is the restrictions placed on the class. A Samurai cannot multiclass, then resume being a Samurai, some of his class abilities require him to use specific weaponry, and he is bound by the code of Bushido, which operates in a similar manner to the Paladin's code.

Swashbuckler
The Swashbuckler is a fighter that emphasizes finesse, style and flair, combining martial prowess with amazing acrobatics to outmaneuver opponents. With a d10 for hit points and a 1/1 base attack bonus advancement, the swashbuckler is an effective frontline fighter, and while the inability to wear medium or heavy armours makes the character vulnerable to counterattacks, some of the class features compensate. The ability to deal strength (weakness critical class feature) and constitution damage (wounding critical class feature), as well as the ability to charge in difficult terrains (acrobatic charge class feature) makes the swashbuckler a formidable opponent in any battle.

Ninja
The ninja class represents the standard image of a stealthy fighter. A ninja can come unseen, attack quickly but furiously, then leave unseen. The ninja excels at quick, powerful attacks but lacks the combat stamina of other classes such as monks and fighters.

Scout
A scout is a bit like a rogue of the wilderness. The scout is an expert at tracking, scouting enemy positions, and finding their way through familiar and unfamiliar landscapes. A scout has a mix of rogue and ranger traits, as well as some unique to them.

Spellthief
The spellthief is probably the most unusual class introduced in the book. They have the ability to make a rogue's sneak attack, but instead of inflicting damage, can steal a spell from their opponent. That is, the victim can no longer cast their memorized spell for that day, while the spellthief can cast it - just as it was memorized. At higher levels the spellthief can even steal spell-like abilities from monsters.

Warlock
Closer to a sorcerer than a wizard, the Warlock has been given supernatural powers. Either he or his ancestors made a deal with a supernatural being. A warlock has an innate magical ability called the eldritch blast, a damaging ray-like ability. The damage for this attack increases as the warlock gains levels. Instead of spells, warlocks gain a limited number of invocations, spell-like abilities with a distinctively sinister flavor. Most of these invocations may be performed at will, or have durations of 24 hours. Some invocations add effects to the warlock's eldritch blast, causing sicknesss, or blindness, or fright, etc.

Warmage
Warmages take the concept of "magical artillery" to its extreme. They specialize in direct-damage spells and can wear light armor (and later medium armor) without penalty to their spellcasting. Though they cast spells like a sorcerer, they have a very limited list of spells they can cast.

Wu Jen
Wu jen are arcane spellcasters with a distinct Oriental flavor. Wu Jen specialize in the casting of elemental spells. The five elements of Wu Jen magic are wood, fire, water, earth, and metal.

Shugenja
Updated from Oriental Adventures, the shugenja utilizes primal energies, and tapping into the earth to cast spells. It is a charisma based sorcerer-style divine casting class, with a spell list biased towards elemental spells.

Favored Soul
Updated from the Miniatures Handbook, the Favored Soul is a spontaneously casting divine class, with a couple of additional divine abilities closely tied to his or her deity.

Spirit Shaman
The class has a fairly narrow divine spell selection. The spirit shaman cast spells as sorcerers do, but they change their spell selection each day by sending their Spirit Guide into the spirit world. The shaman also has a special abilities that affect spirits (incorporeal undead, fey, elementals and creatures defined as spirits in other texts). The Spirit Guide is a purely mental/spiritual creature, incapable of affecting the world, though it does grant the spirit shaman the feat, "Alertness", as well as justifying certain class features. Ultimately, at 20th level, the spirit shaman becomes a spirit (fey) himself, much as a 20th level monk becomes an outsider.

-----

Obviously, some of those have already been implemented.

RATRACE931
01-14-2011, 04:32 PM
Finish PrE's...... nuff said.

berinea
01-14-2011, 04:58 PM
Why don't they just wipe the (metric ton of) dust off one of the golden oldies, like the Math Mage? =D

... But to do that they'd first have to either build a time machine or find a way to resurrect the dead, and that would result in either a zombie invasion or an invasion of time-travelling zombies. I can't see either of those ending well, so probably best to leave well enough alone. =)

Are you talking about Chronomancers? I can't find anything about the Math Mage.

Kilnedric
01-14-2011, 05:00 PM
Soulknife!

(But I do agree that finishing PrEs is probably high priority.)

ArchStriker
03-05-2011, 11:03 PM
I want a bard who can be useful in a party...

Mathieugh
03-05-2011, 11:19 PM
Arise, my child, and do my bidding!

Hmm, I think this one is still rotting...

Karell
03-08-2011, 06:12 AM
Alright, I love the Duskblade in PnP. But to be honest, this class should not come to DDO in my opinion. Here is my main reason for it:

Arcane Channeling. This ability allows you to use a Touch spell through your weapon. This may not seem like much, especially since this class is feat starved. and it will slaughter your sp when you use it, because it is at least 10 sp per swing. But what about Raid bosses?

Shocking Grasp is normally 5d6 damage maxed out, not much, especially in ddo. But...it won't end there. I would probably at LEAST take maximize as a feat, and if I could afford it, empower as well. this translates the damage to 10d6 with maximize, and I'm not positive if empower turns it to 12/13d6 going off base, or 15d6 since maximize is in effect. Whatever works, but it is automatically shocking blow at least with maximize on, per blow, and that's just base. Now, factor in the enhancements that will most likely give you 40% extra damage, almost increasing damage by half. Then you get an item that increases the damage. Now it's starting to look stronger. Then, factor into this thing Spell crits.

So, this extra damage, it goes with a 9% enhancement line to crit, so it has almost a 19-20 to crit. But the damage on it is multiplied by at least 2.25 endgame. So, dps wise, they will even outshine barbarians with a maxed death frenzy line. Sure they have less hp, but doing that much extra damage, and close to lightning strike damage on a spell crit (Let alone if they have a gs item. MinII with a lightning strike that goes off more often than a regular lightning strike? or the possibility to double lightning strike?)

I'm not a hundred percent sure what touch spells are in the game, but this is an example with shocking grasp. Honestly, it won't be much of a difference during game, because you would need to decide when to turn on Arcane Channeling. But during bosses and raids? Face it, any duskblade worth anything would have arcane channeling on, and most likely at least maximize, and it will be almost impossible to out dps them while they have sp and their arcane channeling going. Unless you can get crits often enough, and even then, it doesn't factor the duskblade getting them, they would be overpowered. At least for endgame, mainly against raid bosses, I would take a duskblade over a fighter, barb, or anything like that. Because I have seen some d8 people end up with a lot of hp. If built correctly. And since they are a frontline fighter, I expect them to have toughness enhancements.

Unless they could balance their Arcane channeling ability, even a sword and board duskblade, has the possibility to out dps a 2hf or 2wf fighter/barbarian. Sorry, I love the duskblade in PnP, but it should not be implemented in DDO.

Failedlegend
03-08-2011, 09:41 AM
2: Warlock (Because nothing says lovin' like an eldritch blast to the face)


Also their invocations are really cool and varied...although their incredibly selfish buffers :P (actually that's awesome im not a battery anymore lol)

Also IIRC Locks could also Imbue their blast into whatever weapons they were hold so it would add the damage and whatever effect was on it from essences (ie.disease) for Locks to work in DDO they would probably end up as Arcane Melee's Str/Cha Based which would actually fit the "Gish" niche that we lack in DDO (Note: Not trying to insult the Tukaw,etc. builds) also the FvS like defenses and awesome skill list would make locks quite a potent class without overpowering it (fighters,barbs etc. would probably be a bit higher on the dps scale but warlock wouldn't be far behind. It's always nice to stab a kobold in the face than burn his buddies with an Eldritch Cone :P

Also if Locks are added it would be nice to see Tieflings or Dragonborn,both Cha races IIRC and if you count it in 4e their Cha/Dex(Tiefling) & Cha/Str(D-Born) so probably in DDO I'd say +2Cha,-2Wis (Tiefling) they don't reallt have an affinity for divine classes, +2Cha,-2 Dex (Dragonborn) Their not the most agile brutes around (these are what I think would fit DDO best not their actual 3.5e stats)



I almost dont see the Other Invocations that are a limited list of spells a Warlock can cast an Unlimited number of times being added or if added will have long cool down times.

I'd say it works like rages or bard songs+ Spell Slots...IOW they can have a limited amount of "Chosen" invocations and can only use a certain amount per rest (maybe 1/2 warlock level+cha mod?)...so no actual mana.


Warlocks are gods of UMD/crafting in their own way. :D Full ranks along with...

[I]Deceive Item (4th level)


This would probably be translated as a warlock unique feat that adds a bonus to UMD (stacks with SF:UMD) unlikely to be 10 though...maybe 3-5

JakLee7
03-09-2011, 11:02 PM
ok - artificers is a must

and I know people are throwing races into this as well, but not mentioning something that brings back 1st edition flavor - have a race that IS the class;
Troll
Changeling
Ogre

where as you get higher levels, you can become more powerful ( ogremagi, troll shaman, ect). And the changeling could let you change your race or class when you shrine...might be kind of unwieldy in practice, but just like any idea, if done correctly could be LOTS of fun.

Rosze
03-10-2011, 01:20 AM
kobolds would be a funny race.

SynalonEtuul
03-10-2011, 02:07 AM
Wasn't the soulknife class a dog with fleas...?

DasLurch
03-10-2011, 02:33 AM
I can remember a post or letter that Kate (our old Dev in charge, now #2 to Fernando her hubby) wrote back around the time Monks showwed up, that they had been having trouble with the druid shape-change abilities. That was one reason why they had never been implemented yet. It was something that they were working on, but was still a long time off. The letter was written sometime before the FTP intro. If what an earlier post said is true, they may have worked out some of these issues. That would be nice. Folks have been asking for this class way too long, and it does have some real D & D flavor.

The second part of the post mentioned artifcers as being closer to hitting the live servers than druids. Once again, I say this was YEARS ago. It was before the FTP model was introduced. So I'd bet that these would be the next 2 classes.

That said, they did slip Favored Soul in on us during that time span. So who really knows...

Drakos
03-10-2011, 12:23 PM
Warlocks are fun, but let’s think about each of their abilities in game terms.

Really. I’m going to list each and every ability they have or can get and we can deconstruct each of them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eldritch blast (Xd6 of magical damage. Possibly force, possibly untyped…) - Basically Arcane bolt OR the magic missile Spell like ability. Yes, archmage gets two different abilities that approximate the most basic warlock ability and an archmage could have both at the same time, if he wanted.
~~~~~
Eldritch burst (eldritch blast changes from single target to area of effect) –either Arcane blast or the Chain magic missile SLA. Worst than either of those two options, since it can’t be cycled with eldritch blast, but magic missile can be cycled with chain mm. An archmage with chain mm And arcane blast is laughing in the face of all warlocks atm.
~~~~~
Damage reduction (Slow progressing DR/cold iron, up to a max of 5DR/cold iron)- a minor ability that is completely blown out of the water by stoneskin wands AND basically all DR items.
~~~~~
Deceive item (A warlock always rolls 10 or better for UMD checks.)- this could be implemented several ways, but it basically comes out to warlocks rocking at UMD.
~~~~
Fiendish resilience (fast healing 1 for 2 minutes, which can progress up to fast healing 5)- Kind of nice for guarantied healing.
~~~~~
Energy resistance (energy resistance 5 verses 2 elements, which progresses up to energy resistance 10 to those same elements.)- Nothing to write home about.
~~~~
Imbue item (a warlock is able to create magical items without knowing the spells required for that item) Wonderful! Except we don’t have D&D crafting in DDo, so warlocks wouldn’t actually get this ability.
~~~~
At this point, warlock is a good deal behind an archmage wizard except in regard to UMD.

Let’s start on their least invocations. I will omit the obviously impossible ones, such as Spiderwalk and Darkness, since they have absolutely no ingame approximation. Some will have to be ballparked, but those two are obviously not even under consideration.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frightful blast
(– Any creature struck by the invoker’s Eldritch Blast also becomes Shaken for 1 minute (WillNeg). Subsequent Frightful Blasts donot stack, but do reset the duration. Effective Spell Level: 2nd.)
- A minor debuff. Not very useful.
~~~~~
Sickening blast
(– Any creature struck by the invoker’s Eldritch Blast also becomes Sickened for 1 minute.
(FortNeg). Subsequent Sickening Blasts do not stack, but do reset the duration. Effective Spell Level: 2nd.)
-Another minor debuff. Not very useful.
~~~~~
Eldritch Spear
(– The maximum range of the invoker’s Eldritch Blast increases to 250’ with no range increment.
Effective Spell Level: 2nd.)
-the enlarge metamagic, for eldritch blast only. Somewhat useful.
~~~~~
Hideous Blow
(– As a Standard Action, make one melee attack. If the hit is successful (even if it does not
damage), then treat the opponent as if he/she were also hit with the invoker’s Eldritch Blast (including any special effects due to Eldritch Essence invocations).
Effective Spell Level: 1st.)
-the warlock makes a single attack and, if it hits, eldritch blast is applied as well as normal damage. This is a crude approximation of sneak attack that affects basically everything.
~~~~~
Baleful utterance
( By speaking a syllable of Dark Speech, the invoker chooses one of the following to occur:
a) all non-magic glass, crystal, etc., in a 5’ radius Burst that weigh less than 1 lb/lvl
are shattered. An attended object gets a Will save to negate. Otherwise, no save.
b) a single solid object weighing up to 10 pounds per level can be shattered. An
attended object gets a Will save to negate. If an attended object was destroyed, then the
creature touching it must make a Fortitude save of be Dazed for 1 round and Deafened
for 1 minute.
Effective Spell Level: 2nd.)
-Lowers the larget’s AC and/or attack bonus if they fail a will save, and the target is dazed for 6 seconds. This is actually pretty nice.
~~~~
Beguiling influence
(– The invoker receives a +6 bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, & Intimidate checks.
Effective Spell Level: 2nd.)
-self buff that gives a bonus to bluff, diplomacy and intimidate. This would be fairly nice for an Intimi-tank warlock, which would be an interesting niche to see them fill.
~~~~~

Breath of the Night
– Creates a 20’ radius Spread by 20’ high area of mist around the invoker, which grants Concealment to everyone within it. Does not block Line-of-Sight.
The mist dissipates in 1 minute, or can be
dispersed immediately by a Moderate wind or the fire of a torch.
Effective spell level 1st.)
-this is Obscuring mist, the arcane spell. It is useless.
~~~~~
Dark one’s own luck
(The invoker receives a luck bonus to one saving throw equal to his/her charisma modifier (up to his/her class level). To change which saving throw benefits, the invoker must first dismiss the current effect as a standard action.
Effective spell level: 2nd)
-Makes incredible saves easily achievable.
~~~~~~
Earthen grasp
– A Medium-sized arm of soil rises from the targeted hex of earth or sand. It attempts to Grapple any creature in its hex or one that is
adjacent. If not directed by the invoker, it attacks randomly. The arm has a Strength of 14 + 1 per three invoker levels. The arm can make one
Grapple attempt per round and does generate an Attack of Opportunity. If successful, it attempts to Pin the target, which does (1d6+Strength modifier) hp of lethal damage each round The arm has AC 15, Hardness 4, and 3 hp per Invoker level.
Effective Spell Level: 2nd.)
Earth grab, copied straight from earth elementals.
~~~~~~
Entropic warding
(the invoker is surrounded by chaotic energies. Ranged attacks that target the invoker have a 20% miss chance.
Effective spell level: 2nd)
-Blur, for ranged attacks only.
~~~~~~
Leaps and bounds
(the invoker receives a +6 on balance, jump and tumble checks.
Effective spell level: 2nd)
A weak jump, tumble and balance buff that only applies to the warlock himself.
~~~~~
Miasmic cloud
(the invoker creates a 2-‘ spread of mist, which grants concealment to anyone who enters it’s area. All creatures, excluding the invoker, within the mist become fatigued (fort save negates, spell resistance applies) until 1 round after then leave the area of effect. The mist dissipates in 1 minute, or can be dispersed by a moderate wind or the fire of a torch.
Effective spell level: 2nd)
-a very good spell if it isn’t able to harm allies; this is roughly waves of fatigue, with a fort save added on. At a low level too. If it CAN harm allies, it is a terrible spell.
~~~~
See the unseen
(the invoker gains darkvision 60’ and can see invisible creatures and objects within his/her range of vision.
Effective spell level: 2nd.)
-roughly the same as true seeing. Self only.
~~~~
Summon swarm
(simmons either a swarm of bats, or a swarm of spiders. The swarm attacks any creature within it’s area The invoker has no control over the swarm’s movement or target.
Effective spell level: 2nd)
-Summons an unfriendly swarm of spiders or rats. This would not be appreciated.
~~~~
Voice of madness
(one target is confused.
Effective spell level: 2nd)
-I’m not sure what this would be like, to be honest.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A mixed bag; a few of the least invocations really stand out and a few more have situational usefulness, but the vast majority are useless. A warlock could pick Earthen grasp, Baleful Utterance and either Dark One’s own luck or Beguiling influence if they want to be an Intimi-tank and never miss any of the other options..

I’ll do lesser, greater and dark invocations later.
First they don't hafe Eldritch Burst. This is actually the Eldritch Blast modified with a Shape Invocation. There are actually several Shape Invocations; 1) Chain (allows you to chain the blast from target to target, only first takes full damage others take 1/2), 2) Line (Blast hits everything in a 60' line), 3) Spear (you covered this. it changes the max range of blast from 60; to 250'), 4) Cone (blast becomes a 0 range 60' come effect), 5) Sphere (Blast becomes a 20' Diameter AoE attack ala; fireball), 6) Glaive (blast becomes a hand weapon resembling a glaive), 7) Burst (blast becomes a burst effect centered on you). There might be a few mor but these are the populas shape invocations.

Secondly, you ignored several Essense invocations including the most popular, Vitrolic Blast. This makes your Eldritch blast Acid damage and ignores SR (thats the important one) as well as making it a DoT continuing damage for 2 rounds. Many of the Essense Invocations are just minor debuffs, but still important.

The main issue with implementing Warlock would be the way Ray attacks work in DDO. Other than that an arcane that doesn't run out of SP but in turn has very limited ability. The UMD is a biggie here however. They get the Take 10 ability (no other class gets that as a class feature), and they can use UMD in place of spell requirements when crafting magic items (not yet pertanent to DDO). The DR is nice (any damage mitigation would be), ER to twl types of energy (choosen by player, more damage mitigation), Unlimited access to Detect Magic (not a DDO issue), however Fast Healing would be great (especially if they had AP's options to increase). All in all a nice class I would think is very doable in DDO using exclusive toggles for the Shape invocations and another for essence invocations.

Drakos
03-10-2011, 01:03 PM
Ok, now for my choices. Unlike many people on these forums I am not a fan of Druids so they are not in my list of suggestions. With that being said, I do agree that the Druid should be first, and Turbin has said the Druid would be the the next new class (no ETA however).

Scout - This is a Gish class meshing aspects of Rogue and Ranger. I really like the class and their precision damage was always easier to acheive than Sneek attack. All they needed to do was move 10' before attacking each round. They got less d6 than rogue but also gained bonuses to AC. Admittedly the "move 10' feet" mechanic would be unlikely to work in a real-time game like DDO so likely it would translate to Sneak Attack and an untyped (or dodge) bonus to AC .

Warlock - There has been alot of discussion about them so I'll not expand too much here. Unlike opthers I do not see them as watered down Sorcs. I do think they are unique enough to differentiate them in DDO.

Factotum - The true Jack of all trades. They get a specific number of inspirations a day spent to mimic other classes abilities. This would be a group of abilities borrowed for other classes that all have a common cool-down timer and draw from the same number of uses/rest. Problem here ballancing them against the other classes to make them usefull without being over powered. In PnP they used the Inspirations/day a limiting factor (like 8 at level 20 or so) but I think they over did it. I could imagine that instead of getting their own PcE's they would draw from the other classes PrE's.

A note on Artificers. I would have had them as my third choice because this is Eberron after all, but I didn't include them for several reasons; 1) They would have to implement a true crafting system to make this class viable (I am in favor of this but I believe many wouldn't be because it would require them to have the crafting feats and required spells to craft), 2) The class is heavily devoted to buff's but generally their buffs are done out of combat just befor you attack (this is due to the time required for many of their Infusions, so no refreshing buffs in combat on recently rezed alies), and 3) They also have an affinity to created Homunclus friends which none of the classes with friend like abilities have them (Familiars, Special Mounts, Animal Companions, etc...). Artificer would require some fairly heavy modifications to the gave to ba able to implement.

Quarterling
03-10-2011, 01:11 PM
Artificer

/signed

Dematto
03-10-2011, 01:49 PM
Blackguard would never be there, because it's an evil class.

I see what you mean, but I'm not certain that's entirely valid. The assassin, in it's PnP iteration, requires Evil Alignment. Pale Masters and Acolytes of the Skin (whenever they're finally released) are probably pretty borderline too.
Edit: Also, I'd rather have current PREs finished than new material released. Let's see them Dragonmark Heirs! THEEEN we can play around with Warlocks.

Archmage49
03-14-2011, 12:07 AM
I see what you mean, but I'm not certain that's entirely valid. The assassin, in it's PnP iteration, requires Evil Alignment. Pale Masters and Acolytes of the Skin (whenever they're finally released) are probably pretty borderline too.
Edit: Also, I'd rather have current PREs finished than new material released. Let's see them Dragonmark Heirs! THEEEN we can play around with Warlocks.

Don't quite remember which edition, but one of the old DM guides in PnP made a very good point about introducing new classes, is it essentially already available? Assassin, for example, isn't so much a class so much as it is a profession. ANYONE can be an assassin, it simply involves killing for profit. Warlock, sounds pretty much like what, a fighter/wizard type? So be that.

Druid is something new, psionics would be new, I don't know much about Ebberon setting, was always an FR person, so not clear on how the world specific classes would fit in.

Bodic
03-14-2011, 12:14 AM
Artificer


/signed

What they said.

dozkal-mo
03-14-2011, 12:17 AM
Druids could be pretty boss, but Rangers can too....if they actually got decent animal companions. -_- Though I can just picture a Call Lightning wreaking havoc.

Warlocks...oh dear sweet DDO gods please. I stopped playing casters, but I would play a Warlock immediately. They're a big ole slice of pwnage pie. Mmmmm....pie....

As much as I'd like to see these classes, it always worries me how they'd translate to DDO. D:

Mister_Peace
03-14-2011, 12:55 AM
Sha'ir. The only ability they get is summoning a Birthday Djinn at will.

Druxan
03-14-2011, 01:22 AM
I'd like to see Knights, Duskblades, (no more melee casters chugging DP clickies, just roll one of these) and maybe Scout (yes skirmish works on melee and ranged attacks)

PresentTense
03-14-2011, 01:28 AM
I don't really like psionics, to be honest. I realize psychic abilities have some basis in DnD and specifically Eberron with mindflayers, kalashtar, etc., but in too many campaign settings, they end up feeling like the target of a "which of these things is not like the others, which of these things just doesn't belong." That being said, my top three new classes would be:

1. Druids
2. Warlocks
3. Scouts

Doxmaster
03-14-2011, 03:31 AM
First they QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Drakos;3640157]First they don't hafe Eldritch Burst.
Sorry, I was comparing it directly to the Wizard PrE abilities, Necrotic blast and Arcane blast. I should have written that better.


Secondly, you ignored several Essense invocations including the most popular, Vitrolic Blast. This makes your Eldritch blast Acid damage and ignores SR (thats the important one) as well as making it a DoT continuing damage for 2 rounds. Many of the Essense Invocations are just minor debuffs, but still important.

You missed my next post, didn’t ya? 3 posts down from the one you quoted.

---
At any rate, warlocks would be odd: although you can tank, nuke, CC and melee other characters can do the same things you do, but better.

Your CC is fairly slow, since you only have a few ‘spells’ you could cycle (assuming they have different timers), but it typically targets reflex saves so you can get melee and caster enemies both with the same spell. This is actually pretty cool.

Your nuking is infinite and pretty weak, but people really only care about maximized numbers in short bursts. A capped warlock’s eldritch blast does 9d6 damage (of course there will be enhancements and such adding to it, but let’s work up from the base damage). That’s a maximum of 54 damage in an unmodified blast. Assuming max potency and enhancements (going off current standards) we now have a a little over a hundred damage. Add in 30 (ish) damage for the blast essence then round up and we can ballpark this to be 150 damage.

At level 20, even twice that amount of damage every six seconds wouldn’t impress anyone, especially if there is a chance for it being less than that. Even worst, a wizard could use Arcane blast, Necrotic blast, Chain magic missile or even Fireball/Delayed blast fireball/Acid blast and do similar, if not higher, damage. Thus, you’ll probably end up as a battle-warlock which actually works well until we analyze your DPS.

You can intimitank, have a small self healing ability and some DR; you aren’t the king of the hill in these departments, but something is better than nothing, right? Furthermore, you’ll be 40 to 80 hp behind an equally geared ‘melee’. You are technically a caster, so you’ll be fighting uphill to prove to others that you aren’t one of those gimped 8con, 0 fort guys wandering around in epics. You’ll notice rogues also get intimidate as a class skill, but few rogues are capable of tanking and even fewer are geared towards it since it requires the exact opposite of what their DPS comes from.

Among other DPS characters, you’ll be looked down upon. Fighters, barbarians, rangers and even monks have more health than you. Bards bring DPS, buffs, healing and utility abilities. Rogues had massive sneak attack numbers, trap skills and improved evasion. Other battle-arcane and battle-divines can typically fill their normal roles completely AND add decent DPS.

Of course, my numbers are lazy and my approximations for their SLAs are poor. If anyone can show how a warlock would be an 'acceptable' replacement for a wizard or sorc when you want nuking and CC, a barb, fighter, ranger or monk or rogue when you want DPS and a bard or rogue when you want a whole host of things, please show me how I'm wrong.

Sartax
03-14-2011, 12:31 PM
I have it on good authority that the Devs have solved the polymorph problem, and Druids will be coming sooner than you might think.

ANOTHER class?

I do not really think there is much more room or need for one.

Plenty of room for more races though.

I agree on the Races thing - I think there are plenty of classes to choose from, but the racial differentiation would really make the game more fun. half-elf and Half-orc were decent, but i'd like to see possibly some of the following:

- Shifter
- Gnome
- Changeling

Especially seeing as they are in the adventurer's guide for Eberron.

Zachski
03-14-2011, 12:54 PM
I agree on the Races thing - I think there are plenty of classes to choose from, but the racial differentiation would really make the game more fun. half-elf and Half-orc were decent, but i'd like to see possibly some of the following:

- Shifter
- Gnome
- Changeling

Especially seeing as they are in the adventurer's guide for Eberron.

- Kobold (Just needs to add some animations and armor designs, Update 13 would be reasonable for those)
- Dragonborn (Because Eberron lore has changed regarding dragons and half-dragons, and it'd be nice to actually have a half-dragon race for once. DDO would be the first and currently only MMO to have them as a playable race.)

dozkal-mo
03-15-2011, 07:54 AM
I don't really like psionics, to be honest. I realize psychic abilities have some basis in DnD and specifically Eberron with mindflayers, kalashtar, etc., but in too many campaign settings, they end up feeling like the target of a "which of these things is not like the others, which of these things just doesn't belong." That being said, my top three new classes would be:

1. Druids
2. Warlocks
3. Scouts

Scouts as a class would make me play something ranged. Those things are straight up SICK in PnP.

chrisgina39
03-15-2011, 08:00 AM
2: Warlock - Not familiar with this class from PnP, from what I've seen is similar to the 'Archmage' wizard prestige, I'm sur there are differences, but enough for a totally new class, or maybe another wiz/sorc prestige?

its a darker magi speced wizard basicly think demonotic

Failedlegend
03-15-2011, 09:14 AM
Scouts as a class would make me play something ranged. Those things are straight up SICK in PnP.

I wouldn't mind Seeker either

Nytemeir
03-16-2011, 04:25 PM
I liked psionics in PnP, but putting them into DDO would essentially require a re-write of everything wouldn't it? I'm just concerned about how they would translate, and if they could unbalance the game.

donfilibuster
03-16-2011, 06:31 PM
I believe the engine is prepared to have warlock, with eldritch blasts being similar to arcane bolt and SLAs.
It would be a kind of a specialist class, just like bard. The crafting mimicry should be handy for u9 crafting too.

galei
03-16-2011, 10:32 PM
Going to reach into the books of Pathfinder just for a specific class called the summoner. atleast after the druid and artificer would love a class that could actually do something with a summon.

salmag
03-17-2011, 01:12 PM
Why do people keep refering to psionics as a "class?" Psionics are "abilities;" especially useful abilities that races/monsters use, specifically Kalashtar, Mind Flayers, etc.

That being said I would like to see:

Druids and
Artificers.

As for Races:

GNOMES (first and foremost)
Kalashtar,
Shifters,
Changelings,
WF Scouts (which I believe are Halfling WF)

jm2cps

Monroid
03-17-2011, 01:56 PM
Artificer

It's only a matter of time, to be honest, can't imagine a MMO about Eberron without them

... and I got neg repped because of this comment, now that was weird!