View Full Version : Two Weapon Fighting tweak plus Double Weapons plus Sword and Board buff

12-15-2010, 06:34 PM
First off, because no one wants to read a novel-length post, this will be a 3-part post. First post is the TWF tweak, second is a call for Double Weapons and an easy way to implement them with the TWF tweak, and the third is a way to beef up Sword and Board with the TWF tweak.

Okay, TWF tweak. I'm not asking to change the way you attack with offhands or affect dps or anything like that. No, mine is much more simple. TWF, rather than being strictly passive, could be a stance feat, like Power Attack or Combat Expertise, but independent of any other stance feat. Why bother? Well, mostly for the two other suggestions coming below, but it would also allow a character to have two weapons equipped, but to opt to only fight with one. This could be most useful for spellcasters who, for whatever reason, want to swing a weapon at something, but want to leave that greenblade or whatever equipped in the offhand.

I know, not much of a reason, but it makes more sense with what's coming below.

12-15-2010, 06:46 PM
Double Weapons. I mean, thank you Darth Maul. At its inception, 3rd edition D&D had double weapons, and they were so popular, that it was even carried over to 4th edition. So why not give em to us, Turbine?

It would be pretty simple to implement, especially with the TWF tweak mentioned above. Basically, they are exotic weapons, and when you equip them, you wield the primary end as a two handed weapon, gaining the strength and a half mod to damage, and all that jazz.

That is, unless you have TWF stance on, in which case you wield them as two weapons, using the primary end as your main hand (with strength mod to damage) and the secondary end as your off-hand (with half strength to damage). Pretty simple, huh?

So why bother? Well, more weapons is cool. And it'd let people TWF with quarterstaves. Plus, who wouldn't want to wield a weapon Darth Maul style? In truth, it's not that great for building a powerful toon unless Turbine makes two crucial decisions with regards to magic double weapons: first, make it a single enchantment that does both ends (keeping the weapon in line with regards to price with other weapons); second, make it possible to make greensteel double weapons as soon as they're introduced. This last one is the most important.

Why? Because it's a daunting task to create two or more dual-shard GS items. But if it's only one enchantment on both ends of a double weapon, then it's half the work for a TWF to get a sick GS weapon in both hands. What this would do, more than anything, is give people a reason not to be wielding two khopeshes. Not saying people wouldn't, as two khopeshes is the best route for maxing dps. But some might be drawn away from them by the concept of a lesser grind in the shroud.

12-15-2010, 06:57 PM
Sword and Board buff.

With the tweak to TWF, it'd be really easy to buff up sword and board to the point that people might actually take it. Maybe.

It's simple, though. When the TWF stance is on, your character will bash with his shield as the offhand weapon. So when that offhand attack procs, you just bash with your shield. Voila, S&B dps just went up. The drawback would be that if you're in the TWF stance, you don't get the defensive benefits of your shield.

Of course, this would also require a tweak to Improved Shield Bash, so that you'd retain the defensive benefits of your shield while in the TWF stance.

Light shields would count as light offhand weapons (-2 to attacks for TWF), while Heavy and Tower shields would count as normal sized offhand weapons (-4 to attacks for TWF), not counting the Tower Shield's penalty to attacks.

But this would allow more melee builds, especially fighter builds, as some people are willing to take a minor hit to dps to bump their defense up (though, sadly it's not that useful at high levels), and it would allow people to make use of some shields that are kind of cool but don't see any use whatsoever, like Ward of Undeath.

Imagine a kensai with Warhammers: all those Focus, Specialization, and Improved Crit feats would apply to his shield as well as his weapon. So cool.

12-15-2010, 07:22 PM
Also, if these changes were implemented, it'd give more argument in favor of allowing people to finesse quarterstaves. And if Turbine did that along with this, it'd be huge for Thief-Acrobats and it'd give monks an actual alternative to using fists.

How's that? A Greensteel quarterstaff, though a big hit to dps, would give monks the ability to get +4 Insight to AC and have a weapon that takes full advantage of the feats they used for unarmed strikes (TWF feats and IC: Bludgeoning). For when the monk really wants to boost his AC, he can just switch to a quarterstaff. Yes, right now, they can just craft a pair of MinII kamas and get the same thing...but that's a pair of MinII weapons as opposed to one weapon that doesn't even have to be dual-shard. I know it's not much, but it would be nice.

Plus, even if it became viable to be a dex-based Quarterstaff user, it wouldn't gimp/ruin the strength based users that exist now (the "Big Effing Stick" builds).