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View Full Version : Cosmetic Armor = Fail?



Shanzookie
12-14-2010, 03:39 AM
[Start Rant]

Ok, not sure if it is just me. But I tried on a few sets of the Cosmetic armor and I was quite disappointed in the quality of them and the color and the over all look.. Ok well everything.. To me they look like painted leotards! It’s just freaking wrong! They would be fitting for a half-elf female Cleric with their cheesy /dance or if your toon happens to be a homosexual.

Big Thumbs down on these! i was more hopping for things like Changing my Dragon Touched from gray silver and yellow with blue chain mail, to black and red, with a black crest. In stead we get god awful pale red, violet, and blue's..


Dev's PLEASE just disable this heddious mistake from the store untill we can get some real looking armor instead of leotards!?!?! And most of us where SO Awaiting this too! :`(

[Rant End]

phalaeo
12-14-2010, 03:44 AM
They would be fitting for a half-elf female Cleric with their cheesy /dance or if your toon happens to be a homosexual.


No gay guy I know would be caught dead in that horrible looking stuff, so I'm not really sure what your point is. ;)

MRH
12-14-2010, 03:46 AM
Yes , i don't see myself spending my hard earned money on these.... where is the option to buy with plat?

Actually what we have all been wanting is................actual customizable items. Not here are some new armor that we customized for you that you have to spend up to 400tp's to get. LOL

Shanzookie
12-14-2010, 03:49 AM
Actually what we have all been wanting is................actual customizable items. Not here are some new armor that we customized for you that you have to spend up to 400tp's to get. LOL

Yeah like that would ever happen.. i think that could cause them to do too much coding.. would be nice if they just made it so the armor jpg's were client side so i can pop them into photoshop and make my own! ;) Yeah that'll happen!

Memnir
12-14-2010, 03:52 AM
Armor design has long been the nadir of DDO artistic endeavors. Sadly, the kits don't show too much of an uptick in that regard. While I think the system shows potential, there is very little I've seen that makes me want to spend money on the new kits.

I really wish that the art department would start to produce some better looking armors, but it almost seems like DDO prides itself on producing really ugly things to wear. We've had a few over the years that have been cool looking - but they're the exception when they should be the rule.

dmslasher
12-14-2010, 05:20 AM
yes the new armors sets are not so great how ever i do see some forward progress in this. now that they have a way to alter the armor maybe they can start putting out some better looking designs. while im not gonna spend my TP on those ugly outfits if they were 2 release some better looking ones im sure they could get some purchases out of me

soulaeon
12-14-2010, 05:23 AM
The new looks seem like a total failure of understanding of what it is the players really wanted. They took an old problem, and simply charge us to repeat it. The developers obviously do not enjoy playing games as much as we do!
It would have been simpler to give some of the current meshes new looks, like say I dont know, DRAGONTOUCHED. Or let us choose a costume that fits over ALL armor. We want costumes because we are sick of looking terrible, and sick of looking terrible in the exact same way, and I really feel like this concept was not understood at all.

SlogUK
12-14-2010, 05:27 AM
How remarkable that after making such a fuss out of it they give you a pair of skins per toon with a pair of colour options. I was expecting them to have done something like divide them up into zones and allow you to choose the colour for that particular zome from a good range of colours. Like using the fill tool in paint. Still a bit **** but not as **** as this. You wonder if anyone looked up the word customisable in the dictionary. Or was that my imagination that they said it would be customisable? Or am I missing something?

On my barb all I see is two skins. leaf 1 is hideous and I wouldn't be seen dead in it. Leaf 2 is alright, but makes me look like a hunchback. And the only comment it might excite is "oh - you're wearing leaf 2. Why did you waste your cash on that ****, noob?"

Deaths_ward
12-14-2010, 05:27 AM
Don't know what you're talking about. I actually like the new armor.

Is it the best thing in the world? No.

Is it a thousand times better than the Blue Dragon Scales I've been staring at since late 2007? Yes, a thousand times yes.

Gorbadoc
12-14-2010, 06:39 AM
My suggestion at this point is:
Hire additional art staffers to work on character appearance (including armor). It's not that your staff have done a bad job-- I LOVE a lot of the armor designs. I just want MORE designs.

The game has only so many designs in the first place, limiting how much variety I can see around town. Then I see even less variety on my own character; I get a suit of armor that's optimal for his build, and I'm pretty much stuck looking at that.

I want to see a HUGE library of armor appearances. Suppose I'm tired of the appearance of my Dragontouched Plate Armor.
For 20k plat, I should be able to change its appearance between options A, B, and C (all of which are specific to DT Plate).
For 100 Turbine Points, I should also be able to unlock options D and E for ANY Dragontouched Plate on ANY character I own (and once I buy option D or E, I should be able to switch to it on any character for 20k plat).
For 150 Turbine Points, I should also be able to unlock one of twenty "Generic Heavy Armor Appearances", which I can apply to ANY suit of heavy armor on ANY character I own.

Options A, B, and C can even be on a similar theme. When the artist says, "Look, I drew up an idea for what <insert armor> can look like." The response should be, "Great! Draw up a dozen variations on that design, and turn at least three of them into working skins."

"But wait!" I hear you cry. "If players simply unlock additional 'looks' for Turbine Points, but can then change between looks at any time for just a bit of plat, what's to stop them from simply buying a couple 'looks' they like, then using only those on all their characters?" The answer is this: Nothing. They bought the additional 'looks'; using those 'looks' can be a minor plat sink, but it should not cost additional Turbine Points. You'll keep selling new looks, because you're going to create cool new looks on an ongoing basis, and the price point will be low enough that people don't mind buying a new one on a whim.

Why do you think I still buy hat skins? Clearly, the bunny hats are the best hats ever; I just like having something fresh once in a while. And I didn't buy the lamp shade hat because I think it looks stupid; it had nothing to do with the fact that I already own bunny hats.

macros123
12-14-2010, 07:58 AM
Disagree completely, Gorbadoc! Your scenario stillhas Turbine choosing your armor for you, only a few extra choices offered. The way to handle this is really simple...simple to code and simple to implement.

You open your character sheet, and your dummy has two armor slots, in addition to the boots/gloves/trinket/etc. One armor slot is for the armor you want to wear...the stats from this suit is what are applied to your character. The other slot is simply what you want the armor to actually LOOK like, but who cares what stats it has on it.

So you loot some random armor (+2 fire guard brigandine of who cares) from a chest...you try it on just to see what it looks like....it is beter than your DT armours appearance...you put it in your apearance slot, and you now look like you are wearing that, but you get all the benefits from your DT armour (that you spent 8 months getting right)

Hellllboy
12-14-2010, 08:01 AM
I put one of the Docents on and throught I had gone back in time to a 80's hair band moment with spandex!

Logicman69
12-14-2010, 08:05 AM
I like the new kits... My female halfling monk now looks like the little S$%t that she was ment to be!

Slugnutty
12-14-2010, 08:10 AM
I just stand in the armor shops send tells to the Barbie dress crowd /point /laugh at them - but to each his own - just drop off your Man Card in the bucket on the way out in your new dance costume.

sweez
12-14-2010, 08:14 AM
We basically got what, four (two) choices? Weak, Turbine, weak.

Cauthey
12-14-2010, 08:15 AM
My suggestion at this point is:
Hire additional art staffers to work on character appearance (including armor). It's not that your staff have done a bad job-- I LOVE a lot of the armor designs. I just want MORE designs.

More overhead means more DDO Store evil schemes to help pay for that overhead.

Perhaps instead, they need to enlist the help of a team of graphic artist interns.

While I can understand where they are coming from charging 1 TP for trying out an armor package, I still think it stinks. I don't have TPs enough to mess around with the armors, unfortunately.

Why not just have two armor slots - one that is functional, and the other that is cosmetic. That way you can buy two sets, and equip them in a way to be asthetically pleasing and also functional.

Dythan
12-14-2010, 08:19 AM
It boggles my mind how this can be so horrible, and the LoTRO system is so good.

PCNONSENSE
12-14-2010, 08:20 AM
I put one of the Docents on and throught I had gone back in time to a 80's hair band moment with spandex!

/ signed

The Docents look like some cheesy curtains from Gone With the Wind.....

KillEveryone
12-14-2010, 08:22 AM
I only like one type but it doesn't come in green.

Renvar
12-14-2010, 08:25 AM
Why is it that games like Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate that are 10 years old have better appearance customization options?

It can't be that hard.

I agree with the previous posters. Just give an armor appearance slot on inventory page that allows you to drop an armor in there for asthetic purposes only.

PCNONSENSE
12-14-2010, 08:29 AM
Why is it that games like Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate that are 10 years old have better appearance customization options?

It can't be that hard.

I agree with the previous posters. Just give an armor appearance slot on inventory page that allows you to drop an armor in there for asthetic purposes only.

Its not hard at all!! LOTRO has awseome appearance options - exactly like you suggest...Just borrow their people for 6 months and we are good to go!!!

grodon9999
12-14-2010, 08:30 AM
Right now my elf has her choice of "maroon hooker" and "blue hooker." We need hooker outfits in more colors.

Robi3.0
12-14-2010, 08:36 AM
My suggestion at this point is:
Hire additional art staffers to work on character appearance (including armor). It's not that your staff have done a bad job-- I LOVE a lot of the armor designs. I just want MORE designs.

The game has only so many designs in the first place, limiting how much variety I can see around town. Then I see even less variety on my own character; I get a suit of armor that's optimal for his build, and I'm pretty much stuck looking at that.

I want to see a HUGE library of armor appearances. Suppose I'm tired of the appearance of my Dragontouched Plate Armor.
For 20k plat, I should be able to change its appearance between options A, B, and C (all of which are specific to DT Plate).
For 100 Turbine Points, I should also be able to unlock options D and E for ANY Dragontouched Plate on ANY character I own (and once I buy option D or E, I should be able to switch to it on any character for 20k plat).
For 150 Turbine Points, I should also be able to unlock one of twenty "Generic Heavy Armor Appearances", which I can apply to ANY suit of heavy armor on ANY character I own.

Options A, B, and C can even be on a similar theme. When the artist says, "Look, I drew up an idea for what <insert armor> can look like." The response should be, "Great! Draw up a dozen variations on that design, and turn at least three of them into working skins."

"But wait!" I hear you cry. "If players simply unlock additional 'looks' for Turbine Points, but can then change between looks at any time for just a bit of plat, what's to stop them from simply buying a couple 'looks' they like, then using only those on all their characters?" The answer is this: Nothing. They bought the additional 'looks'; using those 'looks' can be a minor plat sink, but it should not cost additional Turbine Points. You'll keep selling new looks, because you're going to create cool new looks on an ongoing basis, and the price point will be low enough that people don't mind buying a new one on a whim.

Why do you think I still buy hat skins? Clearly, the bunny hats are the best hats ever; I just like having something fresh once in a while. And I didn't buy the lamp shade hat because I think it looks stupid; it had nothing to do with the fact that I already own bunny hats.

Exactly, I am a little miffed that we don't have ninja suits yet. Other then that things are good for me. The way that Turbine jumped into that cosmetic market with the hats was a pretty good indication of what their over all plan for cosmetic wearable was. I am not surprised that this is how it played out, and quite frankly I prefer it that way.

Everyone complains that this will only bring about everyone wearing that same kind of store bought armor. I bought the Ninja mask that day after it came out I am now on my second life for that character and have yet to be in a group with someone who is also wearing a mask. Armor will be more popular I am sure, but it is rather alarmist to rant about how everyone will still be wearing that same stuff.


Disagree completely, Gorbadoc! Your scenario stillhas Turbine choosing your armor for you, only a few extra choices offered. The way to handle this is really simple...simple to code and simple to implement.

You open your character sheet, and your dummy has two armor slots, in addition to the boots/gloves/trinket/etc. One armor slot is for the armor you want to wear...the stats from this suit is what are applied to your character. The other slot is simply what you want the armor to actually LOOK like, but who cares what stats it has on it.

So you loot some random armor (+2 fire guard brigandine of who cares) from a chest...you try it on just to see what it looks like....it is beter than your DT armours appearance...you put it in your apearance slot, and you now look like you are wearing that, but you get all the benefits from your DT armour (that you spent 8 months getting right)

I doubt that this is a simple to implement as you suggest. furthermore, it is clear that Turbine wants cosmetics to be a money making venture. I don't see how Turbine can make enough money to make it worth their while with the system you suggest without charge 1000+ TP to unlock the cosmetic armor slot. That puts cosmetic armor out of a lot of players prices ranges.


I just stand in the armor shops send tells to the Barbie dress crowd /point /laugh at them - but to each his own - just drop off your Man Card in the bucket on the way out in your new dance costume.

Your awesome. :rolleyes:

Belvino
12-14-2010, 08:49 AM
Turbine should just make it Easy on themselves and give us Appearance slots to put any item we want to show.

Since Turbine is focused on nothing but $$Money$$ Charge TP for the Slots i'd pay 1k tp for a permant slot.

Robi3.0
12-14-2010, 08:57 AM
Turbine should just make it Easy on themselves and give us Appearance slots to put any item we want to show.

Since Turbine is focused on nothing but $$Money$$ Charge TP for the Slots i'd pay 1k tp for a permant slot.

A lot of people were complaining that kits cost 250 TP. Turbine might have a problem selling a cosmetic slot for 4 times that.

Swedishchef
12-14-2010, 09:03 AM
Do they look like spandex? Yes
Do you like them? No (some yes)
Did you excpect to see all armours options implemented? Yes

And here is the winner... Do you like your DT? NO!!!!

So will i get a skin? Yes

Why? Well i don´t realy care about the few tp it costs me (i got friickin 5 k free) and i HATE the DT skin.

Shanzookie
12-14-2010, 09:06 AM
Here is a little something im talking about.. Sure i would love to have my armor just the colors and loot i want it but we all know that wont happen, but there could be a few options thaey could implament to make more of a choice!

Shoot just give me all the specs for the graphics and i will make some armor!

Anyways this is what i would like me dt to look like. Before and afters

Before
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f157/jeskola/Misc/ScreenShot00088.jpg

After
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f157/jeskola/Misc/DTHowitshouldbe.jpg

hdogan
12-14-2010, 09:12 AM
This new feature (i can't call it system) is not a custom armor solution. It's basic new armor design selection which only limited color options. So it's same as looted random armor. So everyone will be same again like dragoncrafted armors (except same color).

We need real custom armor feature.

Belvino
12-14-2010, 09:14 AM
A lot of people were complaining that kits cost 250 TP. Turbine might have a problem selling a cosmetic slot for 4 times that.

No Turbine was selling a 250tp pos they called armor customization people would pay more for being able to put any armor there to take the appearance. 1k was just a number i threw out not saying it has to be that much.


Edit:forgot to Spell check

Chai
12-14-2010, 09:18 AM
Ok, not sure if it is just me. But I tried on a few sets of the Cosmetic armor and I was quite disappointed in the quality of them and the color and the over all look.. Ok well everything.. To me they look like painted leotards! It’s just freaking wrong! They would be fitting for a half-elf female Cleric with their cheesy /dance or if your toon happens to be a homosexual.

Most openly gay people I know have much better taste than that!!!

Anyhow, 3/4 of the stuff on Lammania didnt even make it to live, and the leaf models that did make it to live were not my favorite by far.

Healemup
12-14-2010, 09:32 AM
Disagree completely, Gorbadoc! Your scenario stillhas Turbine choosing your armor for you, only a few extra choices offered. The way to handle this is really simple...simple to code and simple to implement.

You open your character sheet, and your dummy has two armor slots, in addition to the boots/gloves/trinket/etc. One armor slot is for the armor you want to wear...the stats from this suit is what are applied to your character. The other slot is simply what you want the armor to actually LOOK like, but who cares what stats it has on it.

So you loot some random armor (+2 fire guard brigandine of who cares) from a chest...you try it on just to see what it looks like....it is beter than your DT armours appearance...you put it in your apearance slot, and you now look like you are wearing that, but you get all the benefits from your DT armour (that you spent 8 months getting right)

This is an idea I like. I had some really awesome armor for my fighter (Hackemlow's ugly armor Shroud run anyone?) and would love to just apply those skins instead of the ones for the one that has the stats I want. Of course, I would ask that the auction house have an ability to preview the armor looks before you buy them. Then I might be able to sell that +1 studded leather of command that looks awesome, but really provides no useful benefit to a character.

Healemup
12-14-2010, 09:36 AM
Turbine should just make it Easy on themselves and give us Appearance slots to put any item we want to show.

Since Turbine is focused on nothing but $$Money$$ Charge TP for the Slots i'd pay 1k tp for a permant slot.

Another solid suggestion.

elg582
12-14-2010, 10:15 AM
I was hoping for some way to make my Icy Raiment and DT robes black/darker.

I have a ninja-spy that I would love to put the ninja mask on, but it looks silly with the white and light grey of the Icy, while my necromancer has blazing eyes and a sickly green aura but is wearing a bright, cheerful robe; come on!

I also like seeing Paladins walking around with black platemail and a Minos; I imagine two of them arguing over who gets to pry the gold fillings out of their fallen comrade's teeth, and whether they owe him a res afterwards :)

Robi3.0
12-14-2010, 10:32 AM
No Turbine was selling a 250tp pos they called armor customization people would pay more for being able to put any armor there to take the appearance. 1k was just a number i threw out not saying it has to be that much.


Edit:forgot to Spell check

I think you over estimate people's willingness to pay for frills. I already stated my belief that 1000+ TP was what a cosmetic slot would cost, before you posted your statement. I think 1000 is low balling the estimate, imo.

Regardless, I don't think it is going to happen.

More variety and maybe the option to make my robed sorc like like she is wearing light armor, is all I want.

Edit: and a Ninja suit. I want a ninja suit. :)

Gorbadoc
12-14-2010, 11:38 AM
... people's willingness to pay for frills.

I suspect this is EXACTLY what Turbine is hoping to estimate with Update 8. 1) See how many people are willing to complete ANY sort of microtransaction for these armor skins (the samplers cost 1TP, and Turbine gets a log of every single microtransaction). 2) See how many of the people buying samplers go on to buy the actual armor skin.

The first number tells them how big their market is. The second number tells them what the market thinks of their current implementation.

Personally, I'll buy samplers left and right (for the price of an extra character slot, I can try on armor skins until my eyeballs bleed). I'll only actually buy a skin if Turbine reduces the restrictiveness on them, or if it's a REALLY freaking cool skin. In the latter case, I'll only buy the one skin.

Hear me, Turbine? I'm happy to buy skins; just MAKE THEM GOOD, and DO NOT CREATE GAME RESTRICTIONS with them. If you're not sure what "good" means, talk to the people who modeled, animated, and skinned the Droaam Medusa; those things are really freaking cool.

Hopefully that got their attention.

African-Grey
12-14-2010, 11:57 AM
The two-slot system (much like LoTRO uses with fantastic effect) has been suggested, resuggested, brought up again, reposted, and reiterated many times. Just look at the Lamannia forum dedicated to the "cosmetic" armor.

Now try and find even one Turbine response on the subject.

What we got is what we're getting. And, yes, I think it stinks.

Wraithkin
12-14-2010, 12:08 PM
So I bought the samples, tried them on. I wasn't impressed but figured I'd give it a go in the wild, maybe I'd like it more. I have done so and thankfully cleansed the armor. I didn't even want it to remain as a possible reminder for myself. I do not like. No me gusta. None of the current ones do I like. A butt plate? What's up with that. The color combinations do not match my Neon Green Mohawk. I've got two sets of armor I like the appearance of I'd like to wear please. I have Black Dragon Scale armor and I've got Drow Hunters armor. What I'd really really really really really like (I figured the extra reallys might make someone pay attention, but I know it's just poor english) is to have the appearance of Drow Hunters Armor. That is all I want. Drow Hunters Armor appearance. I would pay 1k TP. I'd probably pay more than that. Just let me look like I wear Drow Hunters armor. Thank you.

GreenGurgler
12-14-2010, 12:09 PM
This new feature (i can't call it system) is not a custom armor solution. It's basic new armor design selection which only limited color options. So it's same as looted random armor. So everyone will be same again like dragoncrafted armors (except same color).

We need real custom armor feature.

Hold up there with those fancy, futuristic graphics you propose. Yeah right, Turbine could offer that level of customization only if everyone ran on 12 core pc's with 128 gig ram and 6 video cards slaved together!!!

No modern machine could ever render that level of detail and customization.

You ask too much, this is after all only 2010!!! ;)

<snark snark>

Yeah, Turbine struck out big-time on this.

Has ANYONE from Turbine responded to the players reactions to this travesty? (besides saying more to come Soon™)
I swear they do this just to spite us sometimes. People have been asking for and offering stellar solutions to customizable armor and they roll out this cr-ap?!?!?

Turbine, step up and either explain yourselves or defend yourselves but quite keeping silent on this.


As it stands now, you have invested X amount of resources in developing a system that will most likely never get used by a vast majority of players simply because you offered it so poorly!!

If this is what you plan on offering in the future, do us all a favor and stop wasting another Dev or artist minute on this cr-ap as it will just sit and rot in the Store.

Make it awesome and people will buy it.
Heck, make it good and people will buy it.
Make it cr-ap and watch everyone point and pinch their noses as they walk right past.
:mad:

EKKM
12-14-2010, 12:09 PM
Armor design has long been the nadir of DDO artistic endeavors. Sadly, the kits don't show too much of an uptick in that regard. While I think the system shows potential, there is very little I've seen that makes me want to spend money on the new kits.

I really wish that the art department would start to produce some better looking armors, but it almost seems like DDO prides itself on producing really ugly things to wear. We've had a few over the years that have been cool looking - but they're the exception when they should be the rule.

I personally like a lot of the armour graphics already in the game, generally the the random loot ones. Whoever did those was good. I even like the look of DT armours, I just dislike that everyone looks the same in them.

I am just going to reiterate what has been said on the forums for years, just use an "appearance slot" for the appearance of armour and a "function slot" for the effects. Yes it's in LOTRO, we've been asking for it since before LOTRO.

Robi3.0
12-14-2010, 12:36 PM
I suspect this is EXACTLY what Turbine is hoping to estimate with Update 8. 1) See how many people are willing to complete ANY sort of microtransaction for these armor skins (the samplers cost 1TP, and Turbine gets a log of every single microtransaction). 2) See how many of the people buying samplers go on to buy the actual armor skin.

The first number tells them how big their market is. The second number tells them what the market thinks of their current implementation.

Personally, I'll buy samplers left and right (for the price of an extra character slot, I can try on armor skins until my eyeballs bleed). I'll only actually buy a skin if Turbine reduces the restrictiveness on them, or if it's a REALLY freaking cool skin. In the latter case, I'll only buy the one skin.

Hear me, Turbine? I'm happy to buy skins; just MAKE THEM GOOD, and DO NOT CREATE GAME RESTRICTIONS with them. If you're not sure what "good" means, talk to the people who modeled, animated, and skinned the Droaam Medusa; those things are really freaking cool.

Hopefully that got their attention.

I suppose I should clarify what I said. 1 TP at best is 1 penny at worst a few pennies. Micro transactions work because it is little bit a lot of times.

On the other 1000 TP at best is worth 10 dollars. I think you will find that a lot more people are willing to spend a few pennies on a frill as opposed 10+ dollars. 1000 TP bring cosmetic into a whole other price bracket. IMO 250 is the high side of acceptable, but I am sure others feel differently.

Thornton
12-14-2010, 12:48 PM
I suppose I should clarify what I said. 1 TP at best is 1 penny at worst a few pennies. Micro transactions work because it is little bit a lot of times.

On the other 1000 TP at best is worth 10 dollars. I think you will find that a lot more people are willing to spend a few pennies on a frill as opposed 10+ dollars. 1000 TP bring cosmetic into a whole other price bracket. IMO 250 is the high side of acceptable, but I am sure others feel differently.

I will not pay a single TP to see what I could look like in one of the new armor skins. I would gladly pay 1000TP TODAY on multiple characters for an appearance tab, however.

Gorbadoc
12-14-2010, 01:24 PM
I suppose I should clarify what I said. 1 TP at best is 1 penny at worst a few pennies. Micro transactions work because it is little bit a lot of times.

On the other 1000 TP at best is worth 10 dollars. I think you will find that a lot more people are willing to spend a few pennies on a frill as opposed 10+ dollars. 1000 TP bring cosmetic into a whole other price bracket. IMO 250 is the high side of acceptable, but I am sure others feel differently.

No, I think we agree. Grant that Turbine wants to roll this system out first for the people who are willing to pay extra. I'm hoping they'll eventually have some non-TP armor skinning options, too, but one thing at a time. There are people who will NEVER be willing to pay ANY real-world money for an armor skin. At this current stage, those people don't matter; they're not even part of the Skins-for-TP market.

If someone was willing to pay a penny for a sampler, though, presumably that person is also willing to pay some money for the permanent skin. Like you suggested, most of them will be willing to buy a skin for a nickel, some will be willing to pay a dollar, and extremely few will be willing to pay ten dollars.

I suspect Turbine is trying to get two points of reference for financial analysis: How big is the ACTUAL market-- people who would be willing to pay if, hypothetically, the price were as low as a penny? And of those, just how desperate are they for this product? What percentage is willing to pay $2.50 or more for a skin that (in my opinion) doesn't even look all that cool?


On a totally different note,
To the people talking about LotRO, if I'm understanding correctly, that skinning system sounds like it completely divorces the armor's game properties from its visual properties. When you find "a piece of armor", you have actually found two things: a piece of equipment, and a character skin. You can choose to use one, the other, both, or neither.

This is bad. I like the idea of being able to show off that I'm using the fancypants-armor-of-super-awesome. I also like being able to show off that, hey, I'm so awesome, I can beat this quest in nothing more than a +1 leather loincloth. If I can paste the base-appearance of these over ANY suit of armor, then I am incapable of making a definite statement about the qualities of the armor I'm wearing.

To the devs:
Ignore the people insisting that every armor skin should be transplantable to other armors. I want to be able to dress up my warforged in a pink jogging suit without needing a Quorforged Docent of Battle, (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3014090&postcount=15) but I want it to be a DIFFERENT pink jogging suit. That particular jogging suit should be reserved for the item it came with.

Alabore
12-14-2010, 01:56 PM
To the devs:
Ignore the people insisting that every armor skin should be transplantable to other armors. I want to be able to dress up my warforged in a pink jogging suit without needing a Quorforged Docent of Battle, (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3014090&postcount=15) but I want it to be a DIFFERENT pink jogging suit. That particular jogging suit should be reserved for the item it came with.

I gave you +1 for the keen marketing analysis.
I disagree on this one point: the way DDO's engine works, most skins should be freely usable, regardless of original item type.

I do agree SOME skins should be exclusive - but that should be exceptional items you unlock, buy or earn in some way.

Rationale here is: some random skins work well on several, different, item types.
Blackguard/Drow Hunter body textures come to mind; they already cover heavy and light armour.
They could well represent other weight classes, including cloth.
Restrictions here would give us LESS options, not more.

I see your problem with keeping RARE skins suitably exclusive.
After all that grinding, it's a bit of a kick in your gums knowing anybody can buy a skin that looks just like that one rare bit of gear...
But that is a bit different from saying: common textures should be freely available for customisation purposes.

:)

Bladedge
12-14-2010, 02:18 PM
On a totally different note,
To the people talking about LotRO, if I'm understanding correctly, that skinning system sounds like it completely divorces the armor's game properties from its visual properties. When you find "a piece of armor", you have actually found two things: a piece of equipment, and a character skin. You can choose to use one, the other, both, or neither.

This is bad. I like the idea of being able to show off that I'm using the fancypants-armor-of-super-awesome. I also like being able to show off that, hey, I'm so awesome, I can beat this quest in nothing more than a +1 leather loincloth. If I can paste the base-appearance of these over ANY suit of armor, then I am incapable of making a definite statement about the qualities of the armor I'm wearing.



You probably wont be making that statement if you were playing Lotro. Here are some of the cosmetic outfits from lotro. And a tons more here (http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?282955-Show-us-your-favorite-cosmetic-outfit)


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i208/bladedge/Games/cosmetic_7.jpghttp://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i208/bladedge/Games/cosmetic_4.jpghttp://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i208/bladedge/Games/cosmetic_5.jpghttp://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i208/bladedge/Games/cosmetic_6.jpg


I honestly believe Turbine was not all to happy with DDO cosmetic kit system as well and just rushed it out the door cause marketing or the accounts wanted one.
There was no mass promotion cosmetic kit system like they did for guild airships, 1/2 orcs and half elves.
All the articles had a brief one paragraph at the end with a line or 2 about the kits.
There was no, Tell The DDO Community Team: What would you like to see for a cosmetic system, topic.

Gorbadoc
12-14-2010, 02:41 PM
I see your problem with keeping RARE skins suitably exclusive.
After all that grinding, it's a bit of a kick in your gums knowing anybody can buy a skin that looks just like that one rare bit of gear...
But that is a bit different from saying: common textures should be freely available for customisation purposes.

:)

Fair enough. As long as some skins can be had only by wearing the armor they correspond to, and as long as this applies to a sampling of crummy armors and to all the really-hard-to-get armors, my demand will have been met. Now where'd I put that remote control for deactivating my doomsday machine...

Bradik_Losdar
12-14-2010, 02:41 PM
I kinda think this is what people were hoping for:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=291577

Shanzookie
12-14-2010, 02:41 PM
See I like a lot of the armor we have in the game, example, I had some nice +3 Red & Black Mitral Chain male on my Bard when he was lower level, I upgraded to +5 now it's the dull greenish and white suit.. <yuck>

What I was thinking was all they needed to do is make some new armor that worked like the Hats & hair dyes. What i mean by this is the armor kits are basically leotards with painted graphics on them; they are form fitting to the toon and look quite ********. if they had made them like the In-game armor where it had the bells and whistles like shoulder guards or spikes, shine guards etc etc that was more "3D" like in-game armor it wouldn't be so bad other then the Totally Bad choice of colors they made and the terrible design pattern.

Or!

Just change the color scheme of your current armor with 3 way coloring. Base armor color (using my picture as an example of a 2 tone color swap) like black, and the Accented armor pieces are red, and Gold for the "special emblem". And since from what it looks like in the game, the Accent pieces of armor are different models. It should be easy to make new ones with different colors so you could effectively change them on any giving armor.

And then there is some God-awful Looking armor to... Elocator's Habiliment is a perfect example.


See i could live with that "system"

African-Grey
12-14-2010, 02:59 PM
To the people talking about LotRO, if I'm understanding correctly, that skinning system sounds like it completely divorces the armor's game properties from its visual properties. When you find "a piece of armor", you have actually found two things: a piece of equipment, and a character skin. You can choose to use one, the other, both, or neither.
You do not understand correctly. That "piece of armor" has one and only one appearance.

What the LoTRO cosmetic system allows you to do is to place—in its own dedicated "cosmetic" slot—a different piece of armor or a special cosmetic outfit and have the appearance of the item in the cosmetic slot be shown while the stats of your equipped armor are applied.

With all of the nice-stats-but-ugly-graphic and awful-stats-but-nice-graphic armors in DDO, the game screams for a similar system.


This is bad.
Everyone I've seen say the LoTRO system is bad hasn't actually played LoTRO. Its cosmetic system is a wonderful thing.

Seriously, LoTRO is free to play now. Download it, make a character and play with the cosmetic system. Then tell me all the negative repercussions it has that those of us who have been playing it for years have somehow missed.


I like the idea of being able to show off that I'm using the fancypants-armor-of-super-awesome.
In which case you can simply display your main armor.


I also like being able to show off that, hey, I'm so awesome, I can beat this quest in nothing more than a +1 leather loincloth. If I can paste the base-appearance of these over ANY suit of armor, then I am incapable of making a definite statement about the qualities of the armor I'm wearing.
Yeah, okay. Assuming an audience exists in this scenario (are people joining to watch you solo underequipped?), even in the non-cosmetic state of DDO nobody can tell the stats of your armor by its visual appearance aside from specific named armor with unique graphics (in which category your loincloth doesn't belong). So I don't really get your point here.

Alabore
12-14-2010, 03:32 PM
As long as some skins can be had only by wearing the armor they correspond to, and as long as this applies to a sampling of crummy armors and to all the really-hard-to-get armors, my demand will have been met. Now where'd I put that remote control for deactivating my doomsday machine...

* Hands over the remote and a fresh set of batteries... *

...

Now, these gents are making rather sensible points.
We've really been through this before: some people expect armour appearance to be tied to armour effectiveness.

This is not without some merit: when I first joined DDO I remember thinking to myself how mundane lvl 20 characters looked, especially if you compared them with high level "toons" from other games.

Epic armour SHOULD look suitably epic.
But... I love tinkering with stuff - I routinely hex-edited my saves in NWN2 so I could tweak my chars' armour looks.
No single piece of gear had default or duplicated appearance - and I had gigs of extra hak contents to draw bits from.
I started noticing how DDO appearance patterns work: asking for "plate to look like plate" would make sense elsewhere.
In DDO, half of the textures are actually re-used throughout weight classes, and the basic body model is shared with most other armour types.
Add the AC mechanism to the picture: armour or cloth does not matter, it does not provide inherent damage mitigation, deflection or absorption.
As long as monsters can't hit your AC, it does not matter whether you dodged blows, parried them, your thick skin cushioned them or your layers of adamantine plating made them bounce off harmlessly.
This is a big issue with combat resolution - and incidentally it makes the whole "armour types" argument moot.

Since armour type itself is pointless, some players said: fixed appearance is pointless.
Which has some merit too: some restrictions are arbitrary - and some pieces of gear cheat by using "restricted" appearance anyway, Drow Hunter leathers for example.

I guess your own point stands though: devs and marketing guys are still gauging and tweaking stuff.
Too soon to say a final word, yet.

:)

azrael4h
12-14-2010, 03:50 PM
What I'd like, is to be able to select from the existing skins, and be able to change the overlaying elements (or remove them entirely, preferably), and change the colors. I've seen exactly two armors, one outfit, and one robe that I like. That could bump up to a good half a dozen armors and similar in robes (but not in outfits, which are all hideous at best) if I could remove the overlay.

Get that done first; I won't pay money on garbage that's the same as what I get randomly, just costing more. I won't pay even the tiny amount just to see those things. I WILL pay to change my armors to looks I do like, and remove the crappy overlays (seriously, dump them, entirely. Just remove all of them from game), so the ones which aren't bad skins aren't obscured by hideousness, and change colors to something more suitable to my tastes. Black is always good. Black goes with everything, eventually.

markusthelion
12-14-2010, 04:08 PM
All the new armor stinks, hire a graphics art major (rooted in fantasy type lore) & get rid of the interior design people.

or...

Armor dye = win (or possibly the best we can hope for at this point)

donfilibuster
12-14-2010, 08:05 PM
Feels some market study must have gone horribly wrong, though that's no surprise.
Sure cosmetic items are all the rage in MMOs but this is D&D and the premise is still to build your own hero, which is unique from that of all other players.

That'd take not just color options but also to look like the class you are.
If you are a paladin you'd want your armor to look knightly, not fancy.
And if you are a wizard you'll want to look wizardly, not clowny.

And then there's the lot of players are running around in outfits not just the monks.
So many pieces of armor look like pajamas, not just mithril.
And while spikes and horns may be good for some sets there ought to be some plain looking ones.
Sure there can be some bright colored or with odd shapes but all of them?

Gorbadoc
12-14-2010, 08:36 PM
To the people talking about LotRO, if I'm understanding correctly, that skinning system sounds like it completely divorces the armor's game properties from its visual properties. When you find "a piece of armor", you have actually found two things: a piece of equipment, and a character skin. You can choose to use one, the other, both, or neither.
You do not understand correctly. That "piece of armor" has one and only one appearance.

What the LoTRO cosmetic system allows you to do is to place—in its own dedicated "cosmetic" slot—a different piece of armor or a special cosmetic outfit and have the appearance of the item in the cosmetic slot be shown while the stats of your equipped armor are applied.
Thank you for explaining, but please don't be contrary. Your explanation is logically equivalent to my explanation. I guess I must have communicated poorly.



This is bad.Everyone I've seen say the LoTRO system is bad hasn't actually played LoTRO. Its cosmetic system is a wonderful thing.
Now you're just straw-manning. Don't do that, either. I said an aspect of the LotRO system is bad. This is not the same as saying the system is bad. If you can't tell the difference, I'm sorry, but that's not something I can help you with.


Seriously, LoTRO is free to play now. Download it, make a character and play with the cosmetic system. Then tell me all the negative repercussions it has that those of us who have been playing it for years have somehow missed.
An argument from authority, sarcastic straw-manning, and overtones of indignation...

Did I offend you? I'm sorry if I have. That wasn't my aim. When I see an attractive face with a booger on it, I'll say, "Look! There's a booger on that face." I say it in the hopes that it will be dealt with, not to offend anyone. I'm saying nothing about the rest of the face, because I haven't formed an opinion about it. All I know is that the booger needs to go.


Yeah, okay. Assuming an audience exists in this scenario (are people joining to watch you solo underequipped?), even in the non-cosmetic state of DDO nobody can tell the stats of your armor by its visual appearance aside from specific named armor with unique graphics (in which category your loincloth doesn't belong). So I don't really get your point here.
Hmm. Fair enough. Actually, I hope we can all agree with Alabore on this one-- "Epic armour SHOULD look suitably epic."

Alabore
12-14-2010, 10:12 PM
Hmm. Fair enough. Actually, I hope we can all agree with Alabore on this one-- "Epic armour SHOULD look suitably epic."

There is more to that; another user further mentioned: "paladin's armour should look knightly, a wizard's robe should look wizardly".
Sorry if I misplaced your name, but you deserve a +1 rep cookie, at least in spirit until I can track your post down.

That is the whole gist to appearance customisation: looking the part, wearing the right props to the supposed role.
That is why some players said: DDO forces me to wear cloth because plate is useless by - flawed - design. Let my paladin look like a paladin, at least in appearance if not in actual gear.

AC 30, DR5/Magic is still the same, whether it comes from Dex, spells, armour or stances.
Current kits further exacerbate the issue here; another users commented along the lines of: "hire true artists with fantasy lore experience, and fire these interior decorator guys".
A couple days into U8, and I could only see one guy wearing a kit - applied to an outfit model, I am assuming epic gear.

I am a bit disappointed, they even "fixed" the glitch that allowed non-kitted out gear to swap hues for overmeshes.
While harsh, the remark about bean counters at the mast wasn't without some reason.

I am still waiting for half elves to be doted some love upon.
I guess I won't be holding my breath for free-form gear customisation either.

Raveneia
12-14-2010, 10:16 PM
Some are ok looking BUT what I hate is the fact the green and blue designs never made it to live?

why? they were some of the nicer color options and designs...

Gum
12-14-2010, 10:21 PM
Yeah I was really looking forward to this, but I have to say they are pretty terrible looking :( Good direction, bad presentation

At this point, armor dye would be a major improvement if nothing else.

Shanzookie
12-15-2010, 03:44 AM
Just too Re-illiterate a bit.

Armor Dye = A Plus compared to current Kits.
Armor Kits = Fail -Good ideal lazy fallow thru, they look nothing like armor and more like leotards
Armor Equivalence = Need more as mentioned in above post. Epic's to be much more over the top on design; more class "Looking" orientated designs Wizards have more flayer robes, Clerics more humble, Outfits more suited for the classes/enhancements. Ninja Suits/Shaolin Monks etc.
Armor Component workshop = Ideal that the 5 pcs of a model can be customized with drop down menus with basic templates (i.e. the different chest designs on full plates can be interchangeable w/ a color chart to fine tune your color choices)

It would be a bad idea to make it so someone can have the same skin as a epic red dragon scale armor on a +2 full plate.


To the DEV Team. This is a plea from your community, we like the idea of new and customizable armor. Please take heed and make it happen for us and we will love you long time!

/Sign & Date! ;)

Droogald
12-15-2010, 04:28 AM
A suggestion to devs:

Use the free voluntary forces called players. Open the 3D models of armors and the textures for exporting (maybe some simple restricted tools) and editing and then allow importing them back to the game. You could check which you allow in.

Player would get what they want, custom costume/armor makers could maybe have a small marketplace/shop where the stuff can be tried out for free and sold with game plat. Maybe the makers would get a percentage of the game money, like in AH.

You would not get more money directly (like selling TPs), but you would get free content and enhance the gameplay, create some new economy system within the game, and add more general intrest -> more subscribers(?) -> more money.

If you wanto restrict it more because of a threat of expanding amount of 3d-models and textures, make a contest and limit the amount of new armors, or sell the content editing rights with TP:s.

I'm sure there is some formula that would make this kind of thing possible.

Shanzookie
12-15-2010, 07:01 AM
A suggestion to devs:

Use the free voluntary forces called players. Open the 3D models of armors and the textures for exporting (maybe some simple restricted tools) and editing and then allow importing them back to the game. You could check which you allow in.

Player would get what they want, custom costume/armor makers could maybe have a small marketplace/shop where the stuff can be tried out for free and sold with game plat. Maybe the makers would get a percentage of the game money, like in AH.

You would not get more money directly (like selling TPs), but you would get free content and enhance the gameplay, create some new economy system within the game, and add more general intrest -> more subscribers(?) -> more money.

If you wanto restrict it more because of a threat of expanding amount of 3d-models and textures, make a contest and limit the amount of new armors, or sell the content editing rights with TP:s.

I'm sure there is some formula that would make this kind of thing possible.

if you have ever looked at the skin for a 3d model you would see its like taking some puddy putting a graphic on it from like a newspaper, then stretching ita round something, then making it flat again. :)

Khanyth
12-15-2010, 09:51 AM
It is a fail depending on your perspective.

If you wanted to look alter your armour's appearance, then it is not a fail.
If you had an differing opinion on how you wanted to alter your armour's appearance, then it is a fail.
Furthermore, depending on how entrenched you are in your opinion, the fail can go from minor to epic to DOOOOM.

Think of this as if you are going to go see a movie that was poorly rated by movie critics: so long as you go in with low expectations, you may or may not be disappointed.

Elaril
12-15-2010, 10:02 AM
http://feilz.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/wrestling-epic-fail1.jpg

Dragavon
12-15-2010, 10:13 AM
Of all the possible solutions they could have chosen, Turbine choose the worst one.

On top of that, the most used armours looks ***** :eek:

African-Grey
12-15-2010, 11:38 AM
Now you're just straw-manning. Don't do that, either. I said an aspect of the LotRO system is bad. This is not the same as saying the system is bad. If you can't tell the difference, I'm sorry, but that's not something I can help you with.
You said that the ability to choose to use any combination of an armor's stats and appearance was bad. That is the sole purpose and only function of the LoTRO cosmetic system, not an aspect.

But let's not get mired in semantics. Without having used that system first-hand, you have declared such options to be "bad." Having used that system myself, I disagree. If there is in fact some way in which such a system would have a negative impact on the game in actual use, feel free to elaborate.

Shanzookie
12-16-2010, 02:01 AM
Reguardless... As previously stated; this was an attempt and was a Fail. It can be fixed and made Much much better, but will it? Following DDO's Track record on listening to the masses.. Probably not. Thus the [Rant] [End Rant] in my OP.

But still one can dream!