View Full Version : Rog/Rgr/Pal

12-12-2010, 07:23 PM
So, I'm thinking of making a new char. Mostly I want to be able to solo some stuff when I can't get groups and not be totally useless when I do get groups.

So I'm thinking, halfling with dragonmarks for the self healing, a splash of Pal for extra saves, and I can't decide if I should be mainly Ranger/Tempest or some sort of rogue.

My first char was very similar, except with fighter instead of ranger, and only 28 pt. build. (This one will be 32.) The main problem I had with that one is that his DPS was in the toilet whenever I couldn't sneak attack. I'm hoping to fix that.

Thoughts on the right mix of those three? Stats (I kind of need all of them)? (Also is there some way to get Int to help out DPS. I seem to have heard this mentioned in one of the build threads, but I can't for the life of me think of it.)

12-12-2010, 10:54 PM

* Everyone needs CON.
* To-hit and damage is determined by STR. Weapon finesse changes the to-hit to DEX, but you still need STR to hurt 'em more.
* DEX helps everyone's AC if they're in light armor, but that's meaningless if you can't get it high enough by end game.
* Rogue is helped by INT, but it only helps damage when using the Mechanic (II?) PrE and with a repeating crossbow in hand. So 1 level of rogue won't get that for you - 6 might, 12 will. If you want to splash the other classes, forget this. :)
* Paladin and Ranger can use WIS for spell points and it may help saves.
* Paladin can make use of CHA, though the emphasis isn't generally that high unless you really want some of those better enhancements with certain ability prerequisites. Having said that, CHA is great for haggle. :)

Yes, any combination of these in a toon would LOVE to be 18/18/18/18/18/18, but it ain't going to happen. :p

The Exploiter build (18rgr/1mnk/1rog) has been working for me to both solo and group. Not quite F2P as it involves a level of monk (for the WIS AC bonus), but mine has achieved 26 AC at level 8 and no particularly meaningful gear (yet). The saves aren't that great, but can be mitigated by the right potions/gear/clickies/ship buffs/house P favor spells. When he is crowd controlled, it's rarely for long enough to cause any real problem. DPS ain't too sucky (among the top on the kill count in groups) - when he's having trouble hitting with TWF a switch to THF will rectify that and cause glancing blows. And with level appropriate gear in proper use, he's never missed disarming a trap. Blown a couple without the right gear though. :D

There are unfortunately trade-offs for getting the pally saves. I believe a pally is best played as pure or almost pure for the 3rd tier PrE at least. As the mostly ranger find it more beneficial just to group with one, not that it's strictly required. :) The 18 levels of ranger will also mean a good number of favored enemies which helps with bonus to-hit, damage, and defense. Going with tempest III, you get to do a lot of damage when needed, and can also be an effective turtled up intimitank if that's what you want to do.

Mind you, some people are more interested in flavor, and thus the class combination might work well enough with the right considerations. This could be a challenge suitable for submitting to the "Request a build, get a build" thread, or at least playing around with on Ron's character planner.

Edit: Just adding stats I'd dump (in order, depending on feat prerequisites) - WIS, CHA, DEX, INT

12-12-2010, 11:27 PM
OK, you've got the classic build issue. :)

You can't do everything unless you are geared for it and odds are that you are not.

So, you have to choose.

First thing you have to choose is DPS or AC.

AC is hugely gear dependent. It also demands monk for the WIS + DEX synergy. At early levels you can escape this issue by playing warforged but at higher levels you'll fall behind in AC.

So, unless you have lots of gear set aside going for AC is a losing path.

The alternative is DPS. If you kill stuff faster than it can kill you it is a win.

That means you need 2 stats: STR (because damage comes from high STR) and CON (because you have to live when being hit on all sides and that means HP and that comes from CON).

You do not need anything else.

Some will advise TWF. I advise TWF. But that means brining in one more stat -- DEX. You must have an unmodified 17 DEX to qualify ITWF and GTWF. If you aren't going to do that then don't bother with two-weapon fighting.

The option is to be a ranger. Rangers get the TWF line regardless of DEX.

So, you could be a ranger/paladin/rogue with only two stats -- STR and CON. And that is how I would suggest you get there.

You absolutely must have heavy fortification. You absolutely must know when to run away from a fight. You absolutely must know how to heal yourself while you are running away from the fight.

Ranger 15 gets you 4 favored enemies (plus all the ranger stuff). Paladin 3 gets you the CHA boost to saves. Not much since you shouldn't put points into CHA but its something. Rogue 2 gets you trap stuff and UMD.

Lots of possibilities with fewer ranger levels and increased paladin levels. Also a few interesting options if you were to take fighter levels rather than paladin.

12-13-2010, 07:21 AM
The most important part of 'solo' is that you are alone (solo), but quest is still the same. Dungeon scaling makes mobs weaker, but *you* have to do everything a full party would do. You have to have a versatile and adaptable build.

What quests usualy have:
- monsters to slay. If quest objective is 'slay 200 kobolds', then ...
- many times you will be attacked by lots of monsters, so some sort of crowd control would be nice. Some trick to control battle field. This can also be 'stealth' (avoid some battles) or ranged (keep mobs at distance)
- as you will fight, you will take damage. So some cure/heal.
- to take less damage and make your char bigger/stronger you would want buffs.

Based of this, Ranger > Fighter for example. Ranger can fight in melee (free TWF feats), can buff, have some cures, can even stealth and/or keep mobs at distance (free ranged feats).

Also good Paladin, Cleric, FvS, Bard, Wizard/Sorcerer and Monks. Fighter, Barbarian, Rogue are less good.

With good enough twink, knowladge of quests and resources any class can solo. Some can solo even with pure barbarians.

So even barbs can solo, but 'blue bar' classes are easier. Soloability of FvS/Cleric or Warforged Wiz/Sorc is legendary.

12-13-2010, 09:41 AM
Ok, let me make sure I'm clear, when I say solo I mean play through a dungeon by myself. I am not referring to the solo difficulty available on some. This char would be highly similar to one I played previously, except with ranger levels instead of fighter, and that my focus might be more ranger than rogue as my first char. The healing comes primarily from dragonmarks rather than any class abilities. Class abilities/wands can help too. Having classes with +healing enhancements also helps.

So you get the FE bonuses at 1, 5, 10, 15?

My big problem seems to be that AC doesn't scale as quickly as mob to-hit. It's very easy to push close to 30 at low levels, and between crazy high saves, evasion, and AC stroll through 1-4 adventures even on Elite. This stops being true later on (except maybe with crazy awesome gear?).

Right now I'm starting to lean towards Rgr 15/ Pal 3 / Rog 2. The biggest problem I see with that is fighting the temptation to add that second rogue level too early for evasion. (I suspect I'll get bored again long before level 20, so the char needs to be fun from like 7-13. Before that I can just overpower lower level content.)

Edit: Part of me wonder if I shouldn't try monk instead of ranger just to be significantly different.

12-13-2010, 10:34 AM
So I'm thinking, halfling with dragonmarks for the self healing, a splash of Pal for extra saves, and I can't decide if I should be mainly Ranger/Tempest or some sort of rogue.
Most immediate issue is feat shortage. Tempest I & II take 3. DMs take another 3 and if you want to boost them you should squeeze in some metas as well. Toughness, PA, ideally Imp Crit and maybe CE. Clearly something's gotta give. Monk 2 / paladin 6 / rgr 12 might work, but still pretty tight.

Next issue is attribute dependency. STR & CON are obvious for any melee build. Pally implies at least decent CHA. DEX needs to be at least 13, more if you want good AC. INT may be necessary for skill pts and/or CE.

I posted this build (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3346271&postcount=19) a while ago: TWF DMed halfling monk 2 / pally 6 / ftr 12. No rogue or rgr lvls and INT is too low for CE or any skills other than Intim (or maybe UMD). But I think it has everything else you're looking for: healing DMs which (eventually) hit near-max potential; high saves; Evasion; KotC I + Kensai II for good DPS; even a bit of hate-tanking from Divine Righteousness. Could also start base stats 14 / 16 / 14 / 12 / 8 / 14: give up 2 pts of STR for extra CHA, skill pts, maybe CE.

12-13-2010, 11:14 AM
Oh wow... just noticed the feat requirements on Tempest. Yeah, that's not going to work well with the Dragonmarks. So, monk it probably is.

The one thing I'd miss about ranger is the ability to cast Barkskin, but meh.