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h4x0r1f1c
11-08-2010, 09:17 PM
When people are running from me when I'm punching at them I'll be right on their tail hitting their back and they won't take any damage but when I run out infront of them they get hit as they run past me so they go into my punches.

Please improve monk combat so that if you hit someone's back when you're going faster than them they actually get hit?

k1ngp1n
11-08-2010, 09:26 PM
http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv332/r4zr/ninja-fail.jpg

More like this?

h4x0r1f1c
11-08-2010, 10:26 PM
More like this?

No because you cannot kick while chasing someone punching at them and he doesn't appear to be doing what I requested.

Creeper
11-08-2010, 10:32 PM
No because you cannot kick while chasing someone

Sure you can!

Angelus_dead
11-08-2010, 10:32 PM
When people are running from me when I'm punching at them I'll be right on their tail hitting their back and they won't take any damage but when I run out infront of them they get hit as they run past me so they go into my punches.
All melee combat is like that. If you're chasing after a monster, you need to get in front of it for your attacks to work.

They need to adjust network position prediction for attack-arc checking.

AyumiAmakusa
11-08-2010, 10:37 PM
I agree.

h4x0r1f1c
11-08-2010, 10:39 PM
All melee combat is like that. If you're chasing after a monster, you need to get in front of it for your attacks to work.

They need to adjust network position prediction for attack-arc checking.

They should do this then because it really sucks when my party members are giggling saying you can't catch me haha you can't catch me when I'm trying to proc a Radiance Burst or w/e it's called on them.

Calebro
11-08-2010, 10:56 PM
They should do this then because it really sucks when my party members are giggling saying you can't catch me haha you can't catch me when I'm trying to proc a Radiance Burst or w/e it's called on them.

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe this isn't because they don't want you to proc a Rad? Maybe this is because people now find it funny to screw with you when they see you in the pit?
By coming here and complaining about it, you're putting a target on your back for more people to do it to you.

I'll bet every ingredient in my bag that every thread you made about Slayer Arrows only encouraged more AAs to find you in the pit. They were specifically looking for you.

Every thread you make that complains about something in the pit only encourages more and more of this behavior. You have a huge target on your back and you insist on constantly making it bigger.
As the self-proclaimed "PvP Expert" I would have thought you'd have figured this out by now.

Asketes
11-08-2010, 11:10 PM
I'll actually give him this.


I've played a monk to twenty. There were a lot of times i was literally humping the mobs butt b/c i was running so fast and couldn't hit it. it is definitely NOT like that with twf or thf.

I think that should be looked into, BUT the range still should NOT be that of twf/thf, it still should be much much shorter. I just think that if you literally can run no faster b/c the mob is physically touching you, it should be able to be struck.

Quarterling
11-08-2010, 11:30 PM
I'll actually give him this.

I've played a monk to twenty. There were a lot of times i was literally humping the mobs butt b/c i was running so fast and couldn't hit it. it is definitely NOT like that with twf or thf.

I think that should be looked into, BUT the range still should NOT be that of twf/thf, it still should be much much shorter. I just think that if you literally can run no faster b/c the mob is physically touching you, it should be able to be struck.

Yes this. As annoying as it is that Hax is spouting out a million new suggestion threads a day, this is something that I have been silently wishing for some time now.

JDCrowell
11-08-2010, 11:49 PM
This thread was SOOOOO close to being relevant and intelligent from you hax....

You had 2 things going for you....

1. You actually posted OUTSIDE the PVP section.....

2. You actually have a good idea here and worth signing

But, when attempting to give me hope and pulling a trifecta, you fail miserably by showing that this is meant for PVP.

I almost thought you were a redeemed soul! Alas, I was let down again.

Do you ever step outside PVP pits? Have you ever run a quest? I'm sure Orcs and Trolls don't giggle when they run from you.

You disappoint me young padawan as your slip further to the dark side. This thread shows there is good in you, I can feel it. You can change if you want to, the dark side doesn't hold you that strong.

asphodeli
11-09-2010, 03:18 AM
while you're at it, please fix spells to use the TCP Weave instead of the UDP Weave. Its kinda irritating to cast a spell and not have it land...or worse, land a few seconds later.

AMDarkwolf
11-09-2010, 03:29 AM
... lol work around the problem, problem solved.


Ranged stun, move in and make the (easy) kill


And yes it is a problem with ALL melee combat, it is the main reason most melees HATE those 'kiting' archers who 'plink, plink' mobs while running backwards and getting everything to follow them. Its a circus with 1 ranger backpedaling while shooting and 5 melee's chasing the monsters around. (Also get a kick out of said rangers saying 'Well if you actually did some DPS I would not have taken the agro... lol... ranged melee seems to build MUCH more hate than melee as well, ANOTHER bug which needs looking into)

redgod
11-09-2010, 03:44 AM
... lol work around the problem, problem solved.


Ranged stun, move in and make the (easy) kill


And yes it is a problem with ALL melee combat, it is the main reason most melees HATE those 'kiting' archers who 'plink, plink' mobs while running backwards and getting everything to follow them. Its a circus with 1 ranger backpedaling while shooting and 5 melee's chasing the monsters around. (Also get a kick out of said rangers saying 'Well if you actually did some DPS I would not have taken the agro... lol... ranged melee seems to build MUCH more hate than melee as well, ANOTHER bug which needs looking into)

/agreed

andbr22
11-09-2010, 04:03 AM
Well /signed but it is propably impossible to implement (Propably would require to rewrite whole game engine -> make new game)...

salmag
11-09-2010, 11:20 AM
Have you ever stopped to think that maybe this isn't because they don't want you to proc a Rad? Maybe this is because people now find it funny to screw with you when they see you in the pit?
By coming here and complaining about it, you're putting a target on your back for more people to do it to you.

I'll bet every ingredient in my bag that every thread you made about Slayer Arrows only encouraged more AAs to find you in the pit. They were specifically looking for you.

Every thread you make that complains about something in the pit only encourages more and more of this behavior. You have a huge target on your back and you insist on constantly making it bigger.
As the self-proclaimed "PvP Expert" I would have thought you'd have figured this out by now.

Not sure if someone has said it before, but I think that is exactly what h4x0r1f1c wants. For more and more people to show up in the PvP pits...

Deamus
11-09-2010, 11:26 AM
All melee combat is like that. If you're chasing after a monster, you need to get in front of it for your attacks to work.

They need to adjust network position prediction for attack-arc checking.


Probably you right .

Btw in Europe we never had that problem . When i came in USA servers i only saw that .

/Signed OP

Hardehar
11-09-2010, 11:29 AM
... ranged melee seems to build MUCH more hate than melee as well, ANOTHER bug which needs looking into)

well I don;t know, how many times in quests have you run past a lesser annoying melee mob to take out that archer at the back peppering your caster with arrows? How many times has a group leader chatted, "will someone please take out those ranged mobs?".
Seems only fair that the mobs prioritise the annoying archers over the melee mobs (us) too.

NUDS
11-09-2010, 11:36 AM
It is a problem for all melee, but Monks have it the worst.

In my experience, this is the order of weapon range/reach while chasing mobs:

THF > TWF > Monk(Fist)

The difference is quite obvious when you switch from a THF to a Monk alt.

While THF can reach miles away by simply swinging their massive sword/axe/hammer in the general direction of mobs, TWF can swing from within hugging distance of mobs.

Monks however, have to be literally standing on/clipping mobs in order to hit them, especially when you factor in network latency/desync.


In practice, this could be working as intended. Seeing as massive two handed weapons would have a bigger reach than say one's fist or a puny dagger.

Missing_Minds
11-09-2010, 11:36 AM
All melee combat is like that. If you're chasing after a monster, you need to get in front of it for your attacks to work.

They need to adjust network position prediction for attack-arc checking.

They already did that. You can now break boxes that are behind the kobolds you have hard targeted. *sigh* Just another way they try to protect the darn sewer rats.

Angelus_dead
11-09-2010, 11:58 AM
They already did that.
No, they did not. What they did do is extend the range of melee attacks, allowing a Monk to punch barrels from beyond the length of his arms. That's a fast and simple way to sometimes reduce the severity of the problem, but it's not the good way to fix it.

But what they should do is use latency to compute the origin of attack arcs to be temporaly consistent with creature locations. That's not exactly easy, but it's something that's been documented in the network programming literature for 30 years. Lots of competing games do it better. (Not generally MMORPGs, but FPS)

The problem appears to be that the player's game client sends a message for a melee swing at location XYZ, but by the time the message arrives at the server the monster has moved away from that location, since the network packet from your house to Turbine's datacenter takes time to travel. There are roughly two ways to deal with it (both involving complexity and herustics):
A. Multiply velocity times measured latency to use an updated position for the attack origin.
B. Keep a history of creature positions over the past 1-2 seconds, and search for hits using the historical positions that correspond to the time that the attack action was performed.

It's a fairly hard programming job, but it's something important for an action networked game.

Missing_Minds
11-09-2010, 12:05 PM
It's a fairly hard programming job, but it's something important for an action networked game.

And it is something we do not know if they can legally do or not.

These issues started back in Mod 3 when they licensed out a "new" AI back then.

We do not know where the separation of AI logic, and network traffic/position placement occurs. Nor do we know how much of the AI "code" Turbine has the legal right to attempt to modify.

And until recently they certain didn't have the funds to attempt to fix it in the manner you are describing. They did the best they could at the time.

I do agree, what you described, is the correct way to fix combat positioning detection, and like you I've long known this as well.

AMDarkwolf
11-09-2010, 03:39 PM
its actually abusable the other way.

A melee(monk) backpedaling away from a chasing mob whose swinging his axe at you. Your a good 2-3 toon lengths away from the mob at all times, striking with every swing, but hes missing (no combat miss msgs) you.

(Yes I've bitten off more than I can chew and was being the cowardly monk fleeing the angry orge)

Missing_Minds
11-09-2010, 03:48 PM
its actually abusable the other way.

A melee(monk) backpedaling away from a chasing mob whose swinging his axe at you. Your a good 2-3 toon lengths away from the mob at all times, striking with every swing, but hes missing (no combat miss msgs) you.

(Yes I've bitten off more than I can chew and was being the cowardly monk fleeing the angry orge)

You should do that with a 2 hander. Often times you'll make them flinch enough so that they can never catch up to hit you.

Gumbolo
11-10-2010, 08:35 AM
its actually abusable the other way.

A melee(monk) backpedaling away from a chasing mob whose swinging his axe at you. Your a good 2-3 toon lengths away from the mob at all times, striking with every swing, but hes missing (no combat miss msgs) you.

(Yes I've bitten off more than I can chew and was being the cowardly monk fleeing the angry orge)

Uhm, it's still easier to abuse w/ thf or twf as fist requires you to be right next of em