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minimomo
11-04-2010, 05:09 AM
i just can't stand this anymore... after a lot of suffering and endless hours of waiting for people to join my party etc. i finally flagged litany, okay?

that took me about 3 weeks... of course i'm not a hardcore player and i play about 4-5 hours a day.

now, today i tried litany in casual mode, killed all weaklings and only that blackguard skelly left with an asian-like name and i couldn't kill him because both my str and con drop to zero.

NOW THIS PART IS VERY IMPORTANT; if i was a caster, i would put a blade barrier or firewall or whatever... and just run around the columns... bam, he is dead, piece of cake.

is this fair? why do i have to make a caster to enjoy the game, without waiting hours to run a damn quest?

and don't say melee can do that too. NOT AS SUPER EASY AS A CASTER. not without super duper items.

casters only need their spells. heighten, maximize, get every possible damage increasement feats and enhacements out there and just take your time and kite things around.

it will take less time then forming a party in any case.

Crystalizer
11-04-2010, 05:12 AM
but there are many other situations in ddo where a caster is useless compared to a melee, apart from having a huge pool of mana pots. casters have been so much nerfed in favor of melee classes, i dont think they deserve some more nerfs.

Vellrad
11-04-2010, 05:16 AM
I think you don't know what are you talking about.
1st: this guy is blackbone, so he is 100% fire-resist. No FW, no meteors, no fireballs, no polar rays etc. He is carrying a lot of different weapons, and switching them in battle, just like players.
2nd: at endgame all casters are reduced to buffbots for meeles, and throwing 2 or 3 spells in whole dungeon (mass hold, firewall, dancing sphere). All other spells are almost useless.
3rd: its 100% OK that some of dungeons are made in way that 1 class got easier task that other. In some quests caster is king, in others he is waste in party slot.
4th: you're not going to finish this quest without spoilers/ another players anyway.

minimomo
11-04-2010, 05:17 AM
just go youtube any quest name.

you will get 10,000 results like this;

- soloing "x quest" arcane
- soloing "y quest" cleric

and maybe a few very low level quest results where a straightforward melee (not a rogue sneak passing stuff) bashing things around...

i don't care if they have to nerf casters more or make melee stronger. i just want to solo things too...

minimomo
11-04-2010, 05:24 AM
I think you don't know what are you talking about.
1st: this guy is blackbone, so he is 100% fire-resist. No FW, no meteors, no fireballs, no polar rays etc. He is carrying a lot of different weapons, and switching them in battle, just like players.

i have seen a youtube video where a cleric using blade barrier and killing him. i don't care if he has fire resist. firewall was just an example. i'm not a caster...


2nd: at endgame all casters are reduced to buffbots for meeles, and throwing 2 or 3 spells in whole dungeon (mass hold, firewall, dancing sphere). All other spells are almost useless.

i'm not talking about endgame though... you can't explain unfair with another. you just hang in there, keep sucking but try to hit 20. then you will rock? screw that.


3rd: its 100% OK that some of dungeons are made in way that 1 class got easier task that other. In some quests caster is king, in others he is waste in party slot.
4th: you're not going to finish this quest without spoilers/ another players anyway.

guess you are talking about endgame again.

Flavilandile
11-04-2010, 05:27 AM
i just want to solo things too...


You know that it's not one of the basic tenet of D&D ( and DDO ) ?

This game is all about cooperation... Solo mode and Explorer areas were put in as an afterthought because a lot of
people asked for the possibility.

Yes a large portion of the content is soloable ( even on a melee... but you need the right build and the skills to use it correctly... ) but there's still a good portion of it that requires to be in a party cooperating with others.

Vandas
11-04-2010, 05:31 AM
When my Strength drops to 0 on my Wizard/Rogue, I can't cast spells. I'm just as helpless as a Melee. The difference is, you can take more hits with your Melee Strength than I can with my Caster Strength.

The game is not balanced around solo play (assuming you are talking about solo - it's hard to follow).

Everything is fine.

Lorien_the_First_One
11-04-2010, 05:31 AM
Last time I was in there we melee'd him down with a rogue and a fighter so there is no problem dealing with him as a melee.

Besides which, D&D is based on grouping, the only balance should be at the group level. Group if you don't have the skills or equipment to solo.

stoolcannon
11-04-2010, 05:32 AM
i just can't stand this anymore... after a lot of suffering and endless hours of waiting for people to join my party etc. i finally flagged litany, okay?

that took me about 3 weeks... of course i'm not a hardcore player and i play about 4-5 hours a day.

now, today i tried litany in casual mode, killed all weaklings and only that blackguard skelly left with an asian-like name and i couldn't kill him because both my str and con drop to zero.

NOW THIS PART IS VERY IMPORTANT; if i was a caster, i would put a blade barrier or firewall or whatever... and just run around the columns... bam, he is dead, piece of cake.

is this fair? why do i have to make a caster to enjoy the game, without waiting hours to run a damn quest?

and don't say melee can do that too. NOT AS SUPER EASY AS A CASTER. not without super duper items.

casters only need their spells. heighten, maximize, get every possible damage increasement feats and enhacements out there and just take your time and kite things around.

it will take less time then forming a party in any case.

Roll a wizard and go run amrath. You'll feel better about your melee toon.

Dunklerlindwurm
11-04-2010, 05:36 AM
You want to beat him alone on a melee? Guess what? Its easy...i do that all the time.

Only thing you need is being immun to vorpal and use a cleric/FvS hireling to cast Heal on you to remove your stat damage from time to time.

Thats it.

minimomo
11-04-2010, 05:42 AM
You know that it's not one of the basic tenet of D&D ( and DDO ) ?

This game is all about cooperation... Solo mode and Explorer areas were put in as an afterthought because a lot of
people asked for the possibility.

Yes a large portion of the content is soloable ( even on a melee... but you need the right build and the skills to use it correctly... ) but there's still a good portion of it that requires to be in a party cooperating with others.

if no one was able to solo any quest all by themselves, i wouldn't start this thread. i know what is D&D. it's more like this game doesn't know what it is. and no, unless like you have to use 3 different runes or have to be in 3 places at the same time, all the quests (don't know endgame stuff) soloable by casters...

this is not what i call cooperation.

THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS; because, say, a cleric can easily solo litany, you won't be able to find a healer. people just seeing this problem and converts to casters to solo things. which is wrong. the game indeed should be all about cooperation and force you to find a party.

Xaxx
11-04-2010, 05:43 AM
I love that in your what.. (looks at forums join date)... 2 months of playing op that your already calling for *balances* aka nerfs.

Play some more classes, get past necro, and learn about the game first.. then come offer us your opinion, until then, back in the cage you go.

Just as an aside to the f2ps, we're well over a year into this f2p ddo with module 9.7 launching and 9.8 somewhere down the road (sorry i refuse to call them updates, every update from here on out is simply Module 9.x, if they ever release a massive update being worthy of being called a module then that shall be Module 10 and updates from then on will be 10.x).

Yet I still hear newer players (be they f2p, premiums, vips who started as f2p, or guys who just joined 2 weeks ago) moan and gripe about the treatment us vets give them. Now dont get me wrong ive met alot of great players who started out in f2p, but in general its posts like this that still leave a sour taste in a vets mouth. People with a join date 2 months old thinking they know everything about the game and ranting that this needs changed and that needs changed.

For every great unlimited player i've met, i see 10 of these froob posts/ingame people complaining about this or that or spells or a weapon or how trip works (its sad when you have to tell a level 15 fighter that they actually have to hit the trip icon to make trip work). They have no clue what they're talkinga bout but have to spout about how unfair something is.

So this is just a public service message, dont be like the OP, learn the game, then be free to complain about it, not the other way around.

donfilibuster
11-04-2010, 05:43 AM
i don't care if they have to nerf casters more or make melee stronger. i just want to solo things too...

not gonna happen, there's no one man army in d&d, likewise there's going to be some quests casters can't solo.

AyumiAmakusa
11-04-2010, 05:46 AM
This isn't your everyday MMO. I like how this game incorporates cooperation into gameplay. Magic is meant to be strong but they are limited by SP while Melee are meant to be sustainable damage and not nukers.

minimomo
11-04-2010, 05:47 AM
When my Strength drops to 0 on my Wizard/Rogue, I can't cast spells. I'm just as helpless as a Melee. The difference is, you can take more hits with your Melee Strength than I can with my Caster Strength.

thing is you don't have to stand before him and wait till your any stat drop to zero...


The game is not balanced around solo play (assuming you are talking about solo - it's hard to follow). .

yes, and i'm asking what can be done. but as usual people just trying to teach me how to play.


Everything is fine.

not really, not at all.

minimomo
11-04-2010, 05:49 AM
not gonna happen, there's no one man army in d&d, likewise there's going to be some quests casters can't solo.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...... there is. and they are casters. i don't care if they can't solo "all the quests" they can solo "most of them" i want that too.

i don't want to solo any quest a caster can't solo.

but i want to solo every quest a caster can solo.

Jakarr
11-04-2010, 05:51 AM
I normally play hybrid casters my fav are my FvS and 16 sorc/2pal/2rog and I will tell you for most quest I will beat it np just melee'n the whole thing. Melees do great 1-7 then about 17 they gain that grp advantage back. Another thing is your gear up to date? Did you try using a Greater Undead Bane on him? Melees are shackled by what gear they have while casters have to deal with sp and what spells to pick(not to hard really).

Everytime I hear a melee cry about the balance I gotta turn and say hey maybe you should get a better weapon then that +1 flaming greatsword.

All in all play to 20 then tell us the balance.

AyumiAmakusa
11-04-2010, 05:57 AM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...... there is. and they are casters. i don't care if they can't solo "all the quests" they can solo "most of them" i want that too.

i don't want to solo any quest a caster can't solo.

but i want to solo every quest a caster can solo.

That's life. You can't have everything you want.

Deal with it.

English_Warrior
11-04-2010, 06:01 AM
whine

Arcanes are heavily backloaded...they get an easier time at higher levels because they are often so useless in the early levels..... its the nature of 3.5.

And overall the game is a lot more balanced than you realise. Stuff like Stat damage/antimagic fields/elemental resistance/deathward/good old fashioned high saves can even the odds considerably.

Bobthesponge
11-04-2010, 06:01 AM
OP,

Casters and Clerics tend to solo a lot not because they have these great spells, but because they can HEAL THEMSLEVES. You need to either pump up your UMD to the point where you can scroll/wand heal yourself (i think Heal scroll is 39, but could be wrong) or invest in several stacks of cure pots and drink heavily in quest.

As for the specific example you cited you show a profound ignorance. Casters are less effective in that fight because of the blackbone's resistances. not totally, of course, because desintegrate and magic missle work just fine on him but it isn't a matter of firewall+running away. you need to have a stack of lesser restore on you to restore your stats during the fight as you beat him down. I have solo'd this quest on melee toons before and you just have to make like a boy scout and BE PREPARED. did you have deathward/deathblock on? he casts slay living too, you know. did you bring ghost touch weapons? lotsa wheeps/ghosts/wraiths/shadows in there. do you know the questions and answers for the black dragon? somehow i doubt it.

you need to ask yourself how you let your str and con get to 0 on casual. you should have plenty of indications that you are taking stat damage.

if you want to run a melee based quest at that level go run a few shrouds. for many groups casters are almost an afterthought in there. and no, shroud is not end game but the same level as the abbot raid.

to sum up, you came on the forums to whine about how hard life is when trying to solo a quest ON CASUAL. you weren't prepared and died to the suprise of nobody. if you are new to a quest and need to learn it then that is fine - there are many resources both online and ingame (vets/guildies) who can help you. but to whine and demand that the game change because you died is foolish and immature.

minimomo
11-04-2010, 06:02 AM
I normally play hybrid casters my fav are my FvS and 16 sorc/2pal/2rog and I will tell you for most quest I will beat it np just melee'n the whole thing. Melees do great 1-7 then about 17 they gain that grp advantage back. Another thing is your gear up to date? Did you try using a Greater Undead Bane on him? Melees are shackled by what gear they have while casters have to deal with sp and what spells to pick(not to hard really).

Everytime I hear a melee cry about the balance I gotta turn and say hey maybe you should get a better weapon then that +1 flaming greatsword.

All in all play to 20 then tell us the balance.


stop teaching me bs. of course you can melee with that build 1 heal you have max hp again..... are u freaking kidding me? are you just giving me another example of unfairness??

i dont have to play till 20 to tell you about balance......... i'm telling you the imbalance about pre-engame.... it's not balanced in endgame so it should be unbalanced in pre-endgame too?

what kind of a logic is that?

Lorien_the_First_One
11-04-2010, 06:05 AM
thing is you don't have to stand before him and wait till your any stat drop to zero...

yes, and i'm asking what can be done. but as usual people just trying to teach me how to play..

Ah, now that's a better way to put it...

Let's start with don't stand there and let your stat drop to zero. Drink lesser restore potions to fix your stats before they hit zero.

If you like to solo a lot, you need to put UMD on that character so you can also use heal scrolls and restoration scrolls, both of which quickly deal with all stat damage.

Frankly this game requires a bit of skill and planning to solo on any class.

MateCarefor
11-04-2010, 06:09 AM
use restoration pots. Or heal scrolls/items if you UMD, etc etc etc
This is not a how to, it's a grass-is-greener-over-there soapbox, so screw facts and tactics, right?

What counts as melee? Cause I can solo litany on my Tempest Ranger, and my wife has on her AA.
If ol bone boy is smacking you around, wait till Cholthulz says howdy.
Look at the youtube vids for MrWizard soloing all over Amrath with his melee.
(pretty sure it was MrW caught against the door in Sins with like 100 devils beating on him while he fumbled with the door - funniest epic feat of whoopsie dungeon alert ever)
Ever heard of Shade? Look up his vids for seeing how a barb can bulldoze through almost anything. And be geared to be darn near self-sufficient.

In fact, I got so fed up with how gimp my arcane was after Vale, I went melee to enjoy the game more. Oh, and solo flag for Amrath on my Ranger and my Pali - a feat my Arcane has yet to manage.
Spells allow a bit more manipulation of AI, graphics, and the game mechanics is a lot of places, but a good(*) non-caster can do a heck of a lot more than you apparently think.
And at the end of the day, DDO is about DPS. Pretty simple. Guess who wins that crown in a sprint? Guess who wins it in a marathon?

You'll also learn pretty quickly that the hybrids are mostly the ones that can pull off the amazing feats of solo-awesome (like exploiter builds, monk splashes, evasion toons, etc).

Play more and you can actually give Turbine a little credit - a whole lot of characters shine in certain areas over and above others.
Almost makes it, like, you know, fun to play different things and even...sometimes....<hold breath>...group with others in an MMO.

*good = well built, well equipped, and aware of how to do more while playing than faceroll across an attack button.

Kelina
11-04-2010, 06:10 AM
few easy steps so you can solo that blackbone:
1. get to room
2. clear out trash mobs
3. use a blunt force or elec weapon (pref of pure good)
4. after a few hits from him drop your stats a little, kite him around while drinking lesser restore pots then go back to step 3.
5. rinse and repeat till it's dead

Jakarr
11-04-2010, 06:12 AM
stop teaching me bs. of course you can melee with that build 1 heal you have max hp again..... are u freaking kidding me? are you just giving me another example of unfairness??

i dont have to play till 20 to tell you about balance......... i'm telling you the imbalance about pre-engame.... it's not balanced in endgame so it should be unbalanced in pre-endgame too?

what kind of a logic is that?

I am telling you that I solo things because I can heal myself why cant you?

Oh nvm your a gimpy melee probably the same type that crys heejl mez.

You want to solo ya gotta understand the game and make a solo character and yes you can make a melee a solo character :eek:


It comes down to self-healing that makes it so you can solo...that Drow Sorc you see solo'ing well he probably has a good UMD to use scrolls and wands.

Nyvn
11-04-2010, 06:14 AM
Melee are capable of soloing, check our MrCow's Diaries of a True Reincarnate (Melee) (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=237895) *gasp* he even has videos for the quests.

English_Warrior
11-04-2010, 06:17 AM
I am telling you that I solo things because I can heal myself why cant you?

Oh nvm your a gimpy melee probably the same type that crys heejl mez.

You want to solo ya gotta understand the game and make a solo character and yes you can make a melee a solo character :eek:

Its so true....my current main character used to be a straight fighter 20.....great DPS, but pretty reliant on other people to heal him....now he is TR into 18 Fighter 2 Rogue.....the survivability and soloabilty increase from having UMD and Evasion is just mindblowing.

Moral of the story: Get you some good self healing and solo potential goes through the roof.

Shuleagh
11-04-2010, 06:19 AM
OP has a point to be honest. That has little to do with balance between casters and melee though. Its pretty much just bad quest design imo. Having monsters that melee for 60+ damage a hit and almost never miss in melee but can't land a spear chuck or an arrow shot to save their mother favors ranged casters. Having quests that you can bypass 90% of by either stealthing or going invis favors stealth users and ranged casters.

Where is the epic quest where you can bypass everything just by being able to hit 60 strength? If you can bench press the dragon at the start of the quest you win and poof out pop 2 epic chests. That's all I want. No nerfs necessary. Spread the love around. Where are the melee solo friendly epic quests?

To the op: Get a caster hireling(bard, favored soul, cleric) to follow you around. You shouldn't be having an issue in any casual difficulty quest near your level. I ended up having to solo flag for most raids too as a barbarian. If you've never done it before you can look the quest up on youtube. Chances are someone has a video up of it. Helps you learn the quest and not end up wasting time figuring it out.

lucid8
11-04-2010, 06:24 AM
I guess there is only one thing left to say...... Go back to WOW where all the characters have been nerfed to complete equality. (enjoy your fairness far away from the rest of us whom enjoy diversity.)

Dunklerlindwurm
11-04-2010, 06:25 AM
"i didn't ask how can i beat him. i simply gave that as an example to show how casters easily beat him with blade barrier or "whatever".

PREPARE, my ass."


If you didn't ask how you can beat him why are you trying to tell us melee and caster isn't balanced?

You cant say something isnt balanced if you dont even know how to play.

minimomo
11-04-2010, 06:26 AM
Don't pew pew pew...hit him with an appropriate weapon, as people have already suggested to you.



We are confused by your lack of understanding as well



You asked us to teach you... we thought you actually cared, our mistake.



Well if you don't want to be prepared you should die.

1. i'm hitting him with dual +5 shock warhammers of pure good.
2. .....
3. no, i didn't. i asked what can be done to make melee and casters balanced. read the freaking thread title.
4. i prepared, i just hate people teaching me super basic ****.

flynnjsw
11-04-2010, 06:27 AM
OP, classes are balanced for a group, not one balanced with the others. That will, nor should ever change. Period. If classes become balanced towards each other, then why bother having classes at all. If it really bothers you that much, it is time to stop playing anything Dungeons and Dragons based because that is the reality of the situation.

voxson5
11-04-2010, 06:27 AM
i dont have to play till 20 to tell you about balance......... i'm telling you the imbalance about pre-engame.... it's not balanced in endgame so it should be unbalanced in pre-endgame too?



Have you ever played a caster on low levels? The casting abiliy isnt exactly awe-inspiring & more often than not you just melee things.

As Lorien says, put some points into UMD, start whipping those blur, stoneskin, resist & protect wands, cast from scrolls.... Heck, even just carry a stack of healing pots if all you care about is self recovery.

The more you play and learn this game, the more you will realise that self-sufficency is the best thing to strive for, once you learn that, you can do pretty much anything. Even the raging barbarian learns when to nickle & dime powerful mobs :)

As for Melee's soloing high level quests? MrCow & Shade have documented melee toons soloing quests
(sorry, its very late here & i cant find the links for you)

Anything is possible. You just have to figure out how.

Jakarr
11-04-2010, 06:29 AM
1. i'm hitting him with dual +5 shock warhammers of pure good.
2. .....
3. no, i didn't. i asked what can be done to make melee and casters balanced. read the freaking thread title.
4. i prepared, i just hate people teaching me super basic ****.

Good weapons for him really thing you are just tossing BS out there but ok Ill belive ya. Did you know if your saves are high enough you will save vs his aura which is what is decreasing your str/con, do you have potions of lesser restoration, maybe you need to invest in UMD if you want to solo that fight is easy if you can heal yourself.

We are teaching you these super basic things because you are acting like a complete noob and a gimp. You got your ass handed to you in game now you are whining on the forums about it and still getting your ass handed to you. God its like a PvE version of Hax

English_Warrior
11-04-2010, 06:30 AM
i prepared

No you clearly didn't...otherwise you wouldn't have died on casual.

If you had prepared and had died on casual you would be on here laughing about how you pownd yourself by some noob mistake, not seriously complaining that casters and melee need a rebalance.

Dunklerlindwurm
11-04-2010, 06:32 AM
Im pretty sure if this guy would play a caster and tried litany on casual he would fail too :) ..and then complain about casters having too low SP or something....
or how about casters cant survive the force traps in the shaft.

minimomo
11-04-2010, 06:32 AM
"i didn't ask how can i beat him. i simply gave that as an example to show how casters easily beat him with blade barrier or "whatever".

PREPARE, my ass."


If you didn't ask how you can beat him why are you trying to tell us melee and caster isn't balanced?

You cant say something isnt balanced if you dont even know how to play.

i said this kiddo;

put blade barrier, run around, boss is dead.

how freaking easy is that?

this is unfair.

he doesn't need anything else, he doesn't need hireling, he doesn't need potions. all he has to do put a bb and run around.

do this, and %98 of all monsters pre-endgame is owned.

this is unfair.

they don't need pure good of ass smacking whateverness +5 and 19 other set of weapons.

Jakarr
11-04-2010, 06:33 AM
Have you ever played a caster on low levels? The casting abiliy isnt exactly awe-inspiring & more often than not you just melee things.

As Lorien says, put some points into UMD, start whipping those blur, stoneskin, resist & protect wands, cast from scrolls.... Heck, even just carry a stack of healing pots if all you care about is self recovery.

The more you play and learn this game, the more you will realise that self-sufficency is the best thing to strive for, once you learn that, you can do pretty much anything. Even the raging barbarian learns when to nickle & dime powerful mobs :)

As for Melee's soloing high level quests? MrCow & Shade have documented melee toons soloing quests
(sorry, its very late here & i cant find the links for you)

Anything is possible. You just have to figure out how.

Here we go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l388L9FMomg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln67PNPRrnE

Just a couple from from a quick search

Jakarr
11-04-2010, 06:35 AM
i said this kiddo;

put blade barrier, run around, boss is dead.

how freaking easy is that?

this is unfair.

he doesn't need anything else, he doesn't need hireling, he doesn't need potions. all he has to do put a bb and run around.

do this, and %98 of all monsters pre-endgame is owned.

this is unfair.

they don't need pure good of ass smacking whateverness +5 and 19 other set of weapons.


Your point? He may have to put down a BB and kite around it all you have to do is stand toe to toe and I bet you will bring it down faster.

This game is not balanced for Solo hell I remember when the game was VERY unsolo friendly. Cry more though this is great

/popcorn

minimomo
11-04-2010, 06:35 AM
i see only one solution.

make casters slower.

it makes sense too. casters are nerds and wisearses. they don't have much muscle.

so they are slow.

when you put that firewall and start kiting, make it so monsters can easily catch up with them.

make monsters so they can attack you even when you jump if you are in the range.

only then, it will be balanced.

flynnjsw
11-04-2010, 06:36 AM
...this is unfair.



Life is unfair. Suck it up, Adapt and overcome, or just move aside. It can't get any more simple than that.

minimomo
11-04-2010, 06:37 AM
Life is unfair. Suck it up, Adapt and overcome, or just move aside. It can't get any more simple than that.

as a player i have right to let devs know what i think and i don't have to suck up. just go troll somewhere else.

Jakarr
11-04-2010, 06:38 AM
i see only one solution.

make casters slower.

it makes sense too. casters are nerds and wisearses. they don't have much muscle.

so they are slow.

when you put that firewall and start kiting, make it so monsters can easily catch up with them.

make monsters so they can attack you even when you jump if you are in the range.

only then, it will be balanced.

Why are casters nerds and wisearses? What makes you think my Half-Orc FvS doesn't have Muscle?
Safe to say that all melees are stupid, lack common since and are generally lacking communication skills and are ugly?

Dunklerlindwurm
11-04-2010, 06:38 AM
i said this kiddo;

put blade barrier, run around, boss is dead.

how freaking easy is that?

this is unfair.

he doesn't need anything else, he doesn't need hireling, he doesn't need potions. all he has to do put a bb and run around.

do this, and %98 of all monsters pre-endgame is owned.

this is unfair.

they don't need pure good of ass smacking whateverness +5 and 19 other set of weapons.


How about if i tell you i solo this quest faster on a melee? Is that unfair too? With a level 16 monk and good Handwraps i kill him on normal in about 10-20 seconds.

lucid8
11-04-2010, 06:39 AM
Oh and by the way if you played on something besides casual you would know that a lot of "pre-endgame" mobs have this feat, I don't know if you heard of it but its called evasion and since BB requires a reflex save the mobs take 0 damage from it and it takes forever to kill them.

flynnjsw
11-04-2010, 06:39 AM
as a player i have right to let devs know what i think and i don't have to suck up. just go troll somewhere else.

This is funny. Pot meet kettle.

Jakarr
11-04-2010, 06:41 AM
Oh and by the way if you played on something besides casual you would know that a lot of "pre-endgame" mobs have this feat, I don't know if you heard of it but its called evasion and since BB requires a reflex save the mobs take 0 damage from it and it takes forever to kill them.

Stop trying to learn him something....he knows this already...geez...:rolleyes:

minimomo
11-04-2010, 06:41 AM
Your point? He may have to put down a BB and kite around it all you have to do is stand toe to toe and I bet you will bring it down faster.

This game is not balanced for Solo hell I remember when the game was VERY unsolo friendly. Cry more though this is great

/popcorn

that's my point. the game is not balance for solo. it should be balanced. i hate this as a melee toon user. i'm letting devs know and caster users of course trying to prove me wrong because they like this imbalance which make them solo everything.

Jakarr
11-04-2010, 06:44 AM
that's my point. the game is not balance for solo. it should be balanced. i hate this as a melee toon user player. i'm letting devs know and caster users of course trying to prove me wrong because they like this imbalance which make them solo everything.

No this game couldn't be balance for Solo AT ALL, Dnd is not a solo game its based on teamplay so is DDO. I always build characters that can solo(once you understand the game its easy) but why do I almost always fill my grp with puggers if I can solo the quest....

Go back a few years and play this game then you can cry about solo balance, otherwise go play another game....one less gimpy crying melee is one less I will have to put on my "list".

Vellrad
11-04-2010, 06:44 AM
that's my point. the game is not balance for solo. it should be balanced. i hate this as a melee toon user. i'm letting devs know and caster users of course trying to prove me wrong because they like this imbalance which make them solo everything.

Why the hell are you soloing in multiplayer focused game?
Its just a waste of your time, go and try some good single-player games, they'll fit your needs much more than any MMO on market.

English_Warrior
11-04-2010, 06:45 AM
that's my point. the game is not balance for solo. it should be balanced. i hate this as a melee toon user. i'm letting devs know and caster users of course trying to prove me wrong because they like this imbalance which make them solo everything.

I think everyone who answered you has plenty of melee toons as well as casters...and I will bet they all have some toons that are better at soloing than others and that some of them happen to be melees and some happen to be casters.

Again: The game IS much more balanced than you think.

minimomo
11-04-2010, 06:45 AM
Oh and by the way if you played on something besides casual you would know that a lot of "pre-endgame" mobs have this feat, I don't know if you heard of it but its called evasion and since BB requires a reflex save the mobs take 0 damage from it and it takes forever to kill them.

go watch that youtube video, cleric solo. it takes him less than 2 or 3min.

and bb is not your only one spell. if a monster has high reflex save try other spell. read more tips, you can see those in loading screens in-game.

boooo

voxson5
11-04-2010, 06:46 AM
/stirring mode on

Why do you want it made easier for melee? Is running up to something & holding the left mouse button really that challenging?

lucid8
11-04-2010, 06:47 AM
I'm pretty sure that the list of quests a melee toon can solo is longer than that of the ones casters can. I have 17 toonz and am only slightly more experienced than the OP in this opinion though so I could be wrong.

mobilemuppet
11-04-2010, 06:47 AM
Minimomo

Please list your alts/server so I can aviod you in game :)

That is all

MM

voxson5
11-04-2010, 06:49 AM
Here we go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l388L9FMomg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln67PNPRrnE

Just a couple from from a quick search

Cheers :)

pHo3nix
11-04-2010, 06:50 AM
Try this: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=181901

You will be able to solo the whole game, even raids if u want ;)

Jakarr
11-04-2010, 06:50 AM
go watch that youtube video, cleric solo. it takes him less than 2 or 3min.

and bb is not your only one spell. if a monster has high reflex save try other spell. read more tips, you can see those in loading screens in-game.

boooo

Like what comet fall? Flame Strike? These still need evasion checks. Oh you mean instant death spells like Destruction or Implosion well these guys need 2 checks spell pen and a save.

I would much rather vorpal/banish/stat decrease/general massive Dps.

Sure my FvS can toss down a 250 damage BB at this lvl....I'd rather pull out Carniflex and crit for 180+ and do more dps then my BB its quicker and uses less SP.

Lorien_the_First_One
11-04-2010, 06:51 AM
1. i'm hitting him with dual +5 shock warhammers of pure good.
2. .....
3. no, i didn't. i asked what can be done to make melee and casters balanced. read the freaking thread title.
4. i prepared, i just hate people teaching me super basic ****.

Well if you understood the super basic stuff and were prepared you could easily take him down on casual. The fact thta you got to zero stat alone says you do not know the basics and were not prepared.

And I'm sorry I gave you credit for the "yes I'm asking what could be done", I hadn't realized you didn't want that truely answered unless someone was going to answer the way you wanted.

Lord_WC
11-04-2010, 06:51 AM
Wait, um, OP, am I reading you right?

You want us to have only one class in DDO, well, because that's the only way to be balanced.
I hate to say this, but classes are good at certain stuff. Like, I don't know, divine and wf arcane can heal themselves, rogues can disable traps, fighters hit stuff, et cetera.

Also, there is a thing called character planning. I LOVE to solo stuff. Not because it's a challange (dungeon scaling really nerfs mobs) but its so much faster that way. Therefore there are about 3 classes which I keep clean: monks, fvs and sorc. On other classes I multiclass, usually at least to be able to have UMD and/or evasion.

So probably my monk is the closest to what you may have experienced. I grabbed 2 more melees, and a hireling, and just killed him. Probably I could solo him, but that's not worth it. Yeah, hirelings are tedious and stupid, and OMG you actually have to hit a button to make him heal! - but I guess it beats frustration.

But along the lines of your op I call a nerf on melee. I HATE that in Amrath my sorc cannot melee the devils as efficiently as a fighter or a barb. I feel this is unjust, I want to clown around with dual kopeshes as well...

flynnjsw
11-04-2010, 06:53 AM
Well if you understood the super basic stuff and were prepared you could easily take him down on casual. The fact thta you got to zero stat alone says you do not know the basics and were not prepared.

And I'm sorry I gave you credit for the "yes I'm asking what could be done", I hadn't realized you didn't want that truely answered unless someone was going to answer the way you wanted.

He doesn't want help, he wants "balance". IOW the usual "I Win Easy Button".

Lorien_the_First_One
11-04-2010, 06:53 AM
i see only one solution.

make casters slower.

it makes sense too. casters are nerds and wisearses. they don't have much muscle.

Nothing in D&D rules would agree with you here. You can for example have an 18 starting str caster. It's actually not uncommon at all for casters to have a good str score.

Flavilandile
11-04-2010, 06:53 AM
i said this kiddo;

put blade barrier, run around, boss is dead.

how freaking easy is that?

this is unfair.

he doesn't need anything else, he doesn't need hireling, he doesn't need potions. all he has to do put a bb and run around.

do this, and %98 of all monsters pre-endgame is owned.

this is unfair.

they don't need pure good of ass smacking whateverness +5 and 19 other set of weapons.

and you think it's easy for the cleric until it reaches LVL 11 and get BB ?

I can tell you that It's definitely NOT easy...
I have let see... 1 LVL 20 Cleric, 1 LVL 16 Cleric, 1 LVL 11 Cleric ( just Got BB ), 1 LVL 10 Cleric and a 1 LVL 5 Cleric... ( yeah they finally came ashore from the refugee ship )
Game is not easy on Cleric... and until LVL 11 said cleric better has to have some target with him/her if (s)he wants to see the end of the quest.
It's worse for the wizards : they can't run around in full plate and are usually totally useless in melee because they are soooo squishy...
Ok, On the other hand they get Firewall at LVL 7 and can start kitting then.

So yes around mid game there's a shift between melee rule the playground to caster rule the playground... But it's the same thing in PnP... and even that shift has been toned down in DDO. ( Bigby anybody ? )

Oh, and while I'm at it... you really think that a Cleric with a BB can rule anything ? there's mob out there that just laught when they see a BB...

Fejj
11-04-2010, 06:53 AM
Good times here, and for the icing on the cake - minimomo could you post your build / characters name?

I'm willing to bet your a dex based toon, and dumped str and con, then wonder why you can't hit anything and die ...

minimomo
11-04-2010, 06:54 AM
Why the hell are you soloing in multiplayer focused game?
Its just a waste of your time, go and try some good single-player games, they'll fit your needs much more than any MMO on market.

i'm not soloing because i want to. but since everyone solo, i want to be able to solo too.

as simple as that.

since 3 months, i have seen only once, someone trying to put a litany party together.

why? because casters can easily solo it and that leaves melees to solo too.

problem is, they can do it easily, at higher difficulities. melees a lot harder, in casual mode.... buying **** weapon just to beat this 1 boss, and then buy another weapon just for this other boss. hireling, potions, etc. etc....

all i am saying is, either make it soloable for all classes or not at all. i just never liked casters, i don't want to play one.

mobilemuppet
11-04-2010, 06:57 AM
"i just never liked casters, i don't want to play one"

Nail/head I believe

Back to WoW for you mate :)

MM

minimomo
11-04-2010, 06:58 AM
Good times here, and for the icing on the cake - minimomo could you post your build / characters name?

I'm willing to bet your a dex based toon, and dumped str and con, then wonder why you can't hit anything and die ...

30 str, 26 dex, 26 con, 16 wis with items. +5 weapons.

stop this. really.

if anyone flagged litany and above level 17 they should know about dex and ****. not everyone learned about d&d with this game......

Lord_WC
11-04-2010, 06:58 AM
i'm not soloing because i want to. but since everyone solo, i want to be able to solo too.

as simple as that.



You do realise that this means only you play melee toon on your server and everyone else is a divine/arcane caster?
I guess this is not true. And yeah, believe it when they say that with preparation (hell, we're talking about casual, so I'd say with your normal gear/consumables) EVERYONE can solo that boss.

Xithos
11-04-2010, 06:59 AM
OP, although it is MUCH easier and faster to level on a caster once they get firewall or a divine after they get blade-barrier (you alluded to this yourself) as opposed to something like a no AC Barbarian, I just don't see that as a problem. DDO is not a balanced game, but I think it is a fun one and in endgame raids and epic quests melee have their place. Some classes/builds are better designed for soloing, but the emphasis in DDO is placed on working as a group.

minimomo
11-04-2010, 06:59 AM
"i just never liked casters, i don't want to play one"

Nail/head I believe

Back to WoW for you mate :)

MM

:)))) :ppppp

omg omg...

and you go play mario.

hohohihih.

Dunklerlindwurm
11-04-2010, 06:59 AM
problem is, they can do it easily, at higher difficulities. melees a lot harder, in casual mode.... buying **** weapon just to beat this 1 boss, and then buy another weapon just for this other boss. hireling, potions, etc. etc....

all i am saying is, either make it soloable for all classes or not at all. i just never liked casters, i don't want to play one.

See now you are saying the same wrong things again. Several people here have told you already that this quest is soloable by a melee and not only on casual. It is even faster on a melee!

But i guess you dont read these things anyway.

Now whos trolling?

Jakarr
11-04-2010, 07:00 AM
all i am saying is, either make it soloable for all classes or not at all. i just never liked casters, i don't want to play one.


Then how do the melees flag for litany...oh nvm no melee characters do the abbot raid right....


LISTEN HERE WE ARE TRYING TO TELL YOU THAT LITANY IS SOLOABLE BY A MELEE CHARACTER, Naw you would rather just cry about it.

I have played multi Characters 1-20 from melee to casting and a bit of both....I find game balance to be very much towards Melee.


AGAIN PLAY TO 20 AND YOU WILL UNDERSTAND.




P.s Caps lock is cruise control for cooool :cool:

BlackSteel
11-04-2010, 07:01 AM
i just can't stand this anymore... after a lot of suffering and endless hours of waiting for people to join my party etc. i finally flagged litany, okay?

that took me about 3 weeks... of course i'm not a hardcore player and i play about 4-5 hours a day.

now, today i tried litany in casual mode, killed all weaklings and only that blackguard skelly left with an asian-like name and i couldn't kill him because both my str and con drop to zero.

NOW THIS PART IS VERY IMPORTANT; if i was a caster, i would put a blade barrier or firewall or whatever... and just run around the columns... bam, he is dead, piece of cake.

is this fair? why do i have to make a caster to enjoy the game, without waiting hours to run a damn quest?

and don't say melee can do that too. NOT AS SUPER EASY AS A CASTER. not without super duper items.

casters only need their spells. heighten, maximize, get every possible damage increasement feats and enhacements out there and just take your time and kite things around.

it will take less time then forming a party in any case.


a few points:

1) one you tried this quest on casual. I'm sorry but if you fail a quest on CASUAL you cant go boohooing to the forums. use your head for a minute and figure out why you died and what you can do to prevent that. It doesnt involve awesome gear or super build.

2) 4-5 hours a day is hardcore in my mind. Jeez my wife would likely divorce me if I played 4-5 every day. side note: 4-5 hours is enough time to flag for both litany and abbott. It sounds to me you're just new to the quests. Being unfamiliar with the content is more a detriment than gear. Expect most content to take awhile longer from here out if you're new (except inspired quarter, which was made with the servers young blood in mind).

3) killing that named skele with an arcane or divine (well maybe not now with radiant servant with clerics) is more of a pita than with a prepared high DPS melee. ALL of his attacks can be negated even on a no AC character. His damage is pitiful, its all special effects. If you come prepared he's a joke to solo, and even easier with a cleric hireling (hint hint)

4) a non geared caster will have just as much trouble as a melee in progressing solo in the game, granted this comes at different aspects of the game. A first life arcane will find it very hard to progress past the vale/amrath/reavers refuge if they're going solo and dont have the gear to augment their DC's and spell points. The first couple levels tend to favor the melee, and then casters rule all the midlevel content until you reach high levels again (excluding the inspired quarter which really should be more like lvl 15 content). Casters become support roles again in the high levels unless you have amazing gear. Whats necessary to be effective may have changed with the extra power level of archmage, but I cant really say as my melees tend to just solo reavers refuge and amrath.




FYI, my barbarian can solo this at level on elite without a single other person in group, not even a hireling. He may be twinked to the gills, but if I can do elite, theres no reason you cant get past casual or normal if you just stop for a minute and think about what buffs/potions you need.

Jakarr
11-04-2010, 07:03 AM
a few points:

1) one you tried this quest on casual. I'm sorry but if you fail a quest on CASUAL you cant go boohooing to the forums. use your head for a minute and figure out why you died and what you can do to prevent that. It doesnt involve awesome gear or super build.

2) 4-5 hours a day is hardcore in my mind. Jeez my wife would likely divorce me if I played 4-5 every day. side note: 4-5 hours is enough time to flag for both litany and abbott. It sounds to me you're just new to the quests. Being unfamiliar with the content is more a detriment than gear. Expect most content to take awhile longer from here out if you're new (except inspired quarter, which was made with the servers young blood in mind).

3) killing that named skele with an arcane or divine (well maybe not now with radiant servant with clerics) is more of a pita than with a prepared high DPS melee. ALL of his attacks can be negated even on a no AC character. His damage is pitiful, its all special effects. If you come prepared he's a joke to solo, and even easier with a cleric hireling (hint hint)

4) a non geared caster will have just as much trouble as a melee in progressing solo in the game, granted this comes at different aspects of the game. A first life arcane will find it very hard to progress past the vale/amrath/reavers refuge if they're going solo and dont have the gear to augment their DC's and spell points. The first couple levels tend to favor the melee, and then casters rule all the midlevel content until you reach high levels again (excluding the inspired quarter which really should be more like lvl 15 content). Casters become support roles again in the high levels unless you have amazing gear. Whats necessary to be effective may have changed with the extra power level of archmage, but I cant really say as my melees tend to just solo reavers refuge and amrath.




FYI, my barbarian can solo this at level on elite without a single other person in group, not even a hireling. He may be twinked to the gills, but if I can do elite, theres no reason you cant get past casual or normal if you just stop for a minute and think about what buffs/potions you need.

Stop talking sense, he doesn't want to hear how your Melee can solo a quest on elite that he couldn't on casual with his melee.

lucid8
11-04-2010, 07:04 AM
BTW what is that song on the crucible video its jammin. :)

Flavilandile
11-04-2010, 07:06 AM
since 3 months, i have seen only once, someone trying to put a litany party together.


Maybe it has a tiny bit to do with the fact that Necropolis is not loved... and that at that level people prefer to run the vale and the shroud or hell, even the reaver's refuge quests instead of wasting time in the Orchard/Necropolis quests.

But that's just my two €-cents for the lack of LFM.

It doesn't change the fact that this quest can be soloed with any class as long as you are prepared.

minimomo
11-04-2010, 07:08 AM
you know what i won't type anymore stuff. i said what i have to say and if any dev read this it's enough for me.

one last time; they should do something about bosses like that litany blackguard, so when a caster attempt to kite them, maybe he can switch to bow or something...

ummm, not went through the bb but go around it?


it is just stupid. put a bb and run around. i mean yeah, this is undead can be dumb. but all the creatures including elfs and humans tend to go through things. stay in the middle of firewall etc.

whatever...

Lear_beta
11-04-2010, 07:09 AM
that's my point. the game is not balance for solo. it should be balanced. i hate this as a melee toon user. i'm letting devs know and caster users of course trying to prove me wrong because they like this imbalance which make them solo everything.

thanks for that! this game was never intended as a solo game. it used to be a mark of excellence to be able to solo e.g. litany, reaver or dq. now a days it's common as hell. I'd prefer they kick out dungeon scaling and make smaller groups work for it again.

Classes aren't balanced against each other, nor should they be. some quests a melee solo much better than a caster. at mid levels... I'd rather solo e.g. relic with a melee than my caster because it'll go much much faster that way.

if you need a caster to solo, bring a hireling. they help tons and are cheap as well.

have you tried to make your own lfm for litany, what were the results? even if you only got 2 other melee's why not grap 3 hirelings and trio it?

sadly, i know this are not what you intended, but you come across as a "I want to win, not to be challenged!" (and soloing even on a caster is still a challenge in other quests!) .

Many forum dwellers remember a time when getting through the first real quest in DDO killed most rogues and casters as they ran out of sp and couldn't melee, we adapted and has continued to adapt to the game and it's changes. give it time, try a caster or a cleric and see what it feels like.

there should never be balance between the classes imho.

mobilemuppet
11-04-2010, 07:12 AM
I quote again

"i just never liked casters, i don't want to play one"

Learn how to play your melee correctly then and you will be able to solo!!

MM

Farayon
11-04-2010, 07:13 AM
that took me about 3 weeks... of course i'm not a hardcore player and i play about 4-5 hours a day.


Since the other parts of your posts have been discussed and explained already, I'll step forward and express my surprise about that statement.

You call 4-5 hours of DDO per day not hardcore?

I get to play some 5 hrs per week and would call that above casual.

Maybe you should take a little break from playing to stop becoming so very upset about a small setback in the game. Take the time away from DDO to refine your strategies rather than calling for nerfs and game changes that nobody needs or wants.

pHo3nix
11-04-2010, 07:16 AM
you know what i won't type anymore stuff. i said what i have to say and if any dev
it is just stupid. put a bb and run around. i mean yeah, this is undead can be dumb. but all the creatures including elfs and humans tend to go through things. stay in the middle of firewall etc.



that undead is less dumb than many players, trust me..even if they changed the color of bb and fw of the mobs you still see a lot of players staying in fw or passing through bb until they got killed :)

EatSmart
11-04-2010, 07:18 AM
and don't say melee can do that too. NOT AS SUPER EASY AS A CASTER. not without super duper items.

A gimpy caster/divine played badly will die just as fast soloing as a gimpy melee played badly.

A friend of mine who is completely new to the game is playing a 28 pt build pally and is soloing just fine through everything so far. Soloing is not as inaccessable to melee as you seem to think.

A lot of those soloing "super easy divine/arcane" vids you see use torc and conc-opp to keep their SP going, and they're not items you get handed to you in korthos. Lets not even get started on how long it takes to farm bauble, spell storing ring and eardweller.

Bobthesponge
11-04-2010, 07:34 AM
you know, i was gonna reply to the OP after he expertly disassembled my arguments but the rest of you did it for me. thanks!

i just want to know how a melee toon with dual wielding +5 shock hammers of PG, 30 str, 26 dex, 26 con, 16 wis, and prepared (my ass) can not take down that blackbone skelly in less than a minute. on casual.

man, that was good for a laugh.

Lorz
11-04-2010, 07:49 AM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...... there is. and they are casters. i don't care if they can't solo "all the quests" they can solo "most of them" i want that too.

i don't want to solo any quest a caster can't solo.

but i want to solo every quest a caster can solo.

Learn to play. Most quests are solo able by melée. You can't but that does not mean others can't. Improve your game don't dumb down the game as your requesting. Seriously, your whining because you can't do it...but why can sp many others do it. It's you.....I say nerf YOU.

Lorz
11-04-2010, 07:53 AM
you know what i won't type anymore stuff. i said what i have to say and if any dev read this it's enough for me.

one last time; they should do something about bosses like that litany blackguard, so when a caster attempt to kite them, maybe he can switch to bow or something...

ummm, not went through the bb but go around it?


it is just stupid. put a bb and run around. i mean yeah, this is undead can be dumb. but all the creatures including elfs and humans tend to go through things. stay in the middle of firewall etc.

whatever...

What makes solo play possible especially on elite is player skill.
You obviously can solo even on CASUAL. Go play more and develop your player skill....because honestly you don't have any by what you have written. You do not understand the basics of the game or how they work. Instead of improving your play...you want devs to nerf the game. And no it's not just casters telling your wrong...it is EVERYONE.....guess what your WRONG.

phalaeo
11-04-2010, 08:01 AM
i see only one solution.

make casters slower.



Here's a thought- play a Cleric. We already have -25% striding built in.

Vandas
11-04-2010, 08:03 AM
stop teaching me

Pretty much says it all right there.

Face it OP, you're just a noob. A bunch of really patient, helpful people try to explain to you really basic concepts you're just to ignorant/egomanical to understand and you act like an ungrateful ass because everyone won't bow down and mindlessly agree with your absurdly misguided perceptions.

It's called a potion of lesser restoration. I can't believe I didn't even catch this right off, because it's obvious and anyone who isn't useless in this game carries a stack with them. I can cast it and I still carry them.

It's not hard to imagine why you have a hard time finding groups, and it has nothing to do with casters soloing.

jambajuicey
11-04-2010, 08:03 AM
that's my point. the game is not balance for solo. it should be balanced. i hate this as a melee toon user. i'm letting devs know and caster users of course trying to prove me wrong because they like this imbalance which make them solo everything.

I think someone said this best earlier (join date 2mo ago?) go back to wow were every class has been nerfed to the ground so everyone does the same thing the other does its jsut called another thing.. This is not wow..

Nyvn
11-04-2010, 08:06 AM
since 3 months, i have seen only once, someone trying to put a litany party together.

Start your own groups?

Valezra
11-04-2010, 08:10 AM
i just can't stand this anymore... after a lot of suffering and endless hours of waiting for people to join my party etc. i finally flagged litany, okay?

that took me about 3 weeks... of course i'm not a hardcore player and i play about 4-5 hours a day.

now, today i tried litany in casual mode, killed all weaklings and only that blackguard skelly left with an asian-like name and i couldn't kill him because both my str and con drop to zero.

NOW THIS PART IS VERY IMPORTANT; if i was a caster, i would put a blade barrier or firewall or whatever... and just run around the columns... bam, he is dead, piece of cake.

is this fair? why do i have to make a caster to enjoy the game, without waiting hours to run a damn quest?

and don't say melee can do that too. NOT AS SUPER EASY AS A CASTER. not without super duper items.

casters only need their spells. heighten, maximize, get every possible damage increasement feats and enhacements out there and just take your time and kite things around.

it will take less time then forming a party in any case.

First, DDO at its core is a multiplayer experience. You cannot and should not be able to solo every single thing in the game. "Casual" mode was added later to give ultra-casual players (people who play very little, do not care to grind or even shop for gear, and just want to have fun with their friends) the ability to group up and experience some of what DDO has to offer.

Second, "forming a party" should be an extremely fast experience. Why people constantly complain about this I will never understand. Here's some tips for "forming a party" in order to run a quest.

1. Don't focus on FILLING the party. Make sure you have your basics covered and start the quest. Litany as an example... just get a Divine or Arcane caster to join you (if you don't know how to buy lesser restoration pots) and go!
2. Focus on Self-Sufficiency (ie - self heals, curse removal pots, disease immunity items, poison neutralization pots). What does this have to do with forming a party? It lessens your restrictions on who can join. If you are all self-sufficient you can run most quests without a dedicated healer for example.


Stop griping, start thinking, and enjoy the game.

PS - If you have trouble putting groups together you may want to focus on making friends in the game... parties go together much faster when you know people and are someone other people enjoy running with. Good luck!

Val

Valezra
11-04-2010, 08:12 AM
Pretty much says it all right there.

Face it OP, you're just a noob. A bunch of really patient, helpful people try to explain to you really basic concepts you're just to ignorant/egomanical to understand and you act like an ungrateful ass because everyone won't bow down and mindlessly agree with your absurdly misguided perceptions.

It's called a potion of lesser restoration. I can't believe I didn't even catch this right off, because it's obvious and anyone who isn't useless in this game carries a stack with them. I can cast it and I still carry them.

It's not hard to imagine why you have a hard time finding groups, and it has nothing to do with casters soloing.


Okay, forget my previously kind and informative post... I like this one best!

Val

sweez
11-04-2010, 08:19 AM
Q_Q my evoker FvS can't solo Mentau Q_Q

Lord_WC
11-04-2010, 08:25 AM
Q_Q my evoker FvS can't solo Mentau Q_Q

Yeah, let them nerf melee, so they won't be able to solo him as well. That would leave us in the convenient situation that noone could do anything about him.

Dendrix
11-04-2010, 08:26 AM
Melees can solo this. Just like casters prep for encounters, melees must also prep for encounters.

Just drink some lesser restoration potions when you are taking stat damage. or use restoration/heal scrolls if you have good enough UMD.

I don't see what the problem us, other than your intelligence and arrogance.

sweez
11-04-2010, 08:33 AM
Yeah, let them nerf melee, so they won't be able to solo him as well. That would leave us in the convenient situation that noone could do anything about him.

Well, since I've just completed my tome page set, for all I care, they could just remove the whole litany thing from the game :p

Lorz
11-04-2010, 08:40 AM
1. i'm hitting him with dual +5 shock warhammers of pure good.
2. .....
3. no, i didn't. i asked what can be done to make melee and casters balanced. read the freaking thread title.
4. i prepared, i just hate people teaching me super basic ****.

If you were prepared you would not have failed....it was casual. Learn to play.

And yes from your posts it is pretty obvious you have lots to learn....drop the attitude....it is not doing you any favors.

NOOB

Aaxeyu
11-04-2010, 08:52 AM
That your melee can't solo does not mean that no melee can solo.

I would wager that you still would fail even if you used a caster.

Kelina
11-04-2010, 08:55 AM
that's my point. the game is not balance for solo. it should be balanced. i hate this as a melee toon user. i'm letting devs know and caster users of course trying to prove me wrong because they like this imbalance which make them solo everything.

gonna type this all big so you get it..... THIS GAME IS NOT ABOUT SOLOING!!!!

Can a good player solo most of the content, yes. Could you solo most of the content, obviously not. DDO is about group play, the sooner you get that through your head the better off you'll be.

Fomori
11-04-2010, 09:01 AM
you know what i won't type anymore stuff. i said what i have to say and if any dev read this it's enough for me.

one last time; they should do something about bosses like that litany blackguard, so when a caster attempt to kite them, maybe he can switch to bow or something...

ummm, not went through the bb but go around it?


it is just stupid. put a bb and run around. i mean yeah, this is undead can be dumb. but all the creatures including elfs and humans tend to go through things. stay in the middle of firewall etc.

whatever...
FYI, the devs might read this but probably not. They have said before you need to 'state a problem' and give 'constructive feedback'. So far all you are doing is blindly defending a position that is not even an issue. There is no constructive feedback on your part only attacking people that started out trying to positively help you.

Its one thing to go 'Hey I think this is broken lets look at ways at fixing this' and discuss. Its another to obstinately fixate that your problem and solution is the only way to go, despite evidence that debunks your perceived problem.

Also in DDO soloing is an accomplishment, not a right. People post solo videos because they are bragging 'Hey I did this because its not commonly believed it can be done.' Also, those characters that do are planned out from level 1, have above average gear, and intimate player knowledge of the quest.

I think Sun Tsu had a good line that is appropriate here....
"So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself."

quickgrif
11-04-2010, 09:54 AM
[QUOTE=minimomo;3384932]i just can't stand this anymore... after a lot of suffering and endless hours of waiting for people to join my party etc. i finally flagged litany, okay?

that took me about 3 weeks... of course i'm not a hardcore player and i play about 4-5 hours a day.

now, today i tried litany in casual mode, killed all weaklings and only that blackguard skelly left with an asian-like name and i couldn't kill him because both my str and con drop to zero.

NOW THIS PART IS VERY IMPORTANT; if i was a caster, i would put a blade barrier or firewall or whatever... and just run around the columns... bam, he is dead, piece of cake.

is this fair? why do i have to make a caster to enjoy the game, without waiting hours to run a damn quest?

and don't say melee can do that too. NOT AS SUPER EASY AS A CASTER. not without super duper items.

casters only need their spells. heighten, maximize, get every possible damage increasement feats and enhacements out there and just take your time and kite things around.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee169/Quickgrif/Funny_Pictures_29017.jpg

patang01
11-04-2010, 10:08 AM
If you run Amrath wilderness lowly trogs will give you str and con stat damage. I use a cheap inexpensive lesser restore pots to get rid of it. I mostly run as a FvS or a ranger; FvS is easy in that sense. Unlimited cure light, blade barrier and the odd searing light to finishing off a low HP target.

But it's always that much 'easier' to move down critters and bosses with my ranger. 2 con op items, the new epic cloak of night, one vorpal for almost all stuff and a construct beater for the siege golems and such.

The point is that I can do anything a caster can. It's just a matter of having the right resources to do it. Some stuff is going to be a lot easier; say a caster in some wilderness and quests. Like my FvS and rainbow in the dark. Less then 30 minute stomp with maybe a little tougher in the end. Not so much with my ranger due to having to carry the light source.

But it's the opposite with running with the devils. Here DPS is king. It's very hard to out DPS and kite the eladrins. And that I guess is the whole point; some solutions are easier. Others are tougher, but you'll notice more than often that end game quests (above 16) are usually oriented around maximum DPS and less finesse and magic.

Xyfiel
11-04-2010, 10:13 AM
Soloed all of it on an Arcane Archer with only a guide for the dialogue and no prior knowledge of the quest. If you can't handle the skelly, don't bother going further.

sigtrent
11-04-2010, 10:27 AM
yes, and i'm asking what can be done. but as usual people just trying to teach me how to play.

That is because the challenge is not the balance of melee and casters but that you don't know how as a melee to deal with the challenge. You can easily get items that will restore your ability damage, or you can watch that monsters dialogs and avoid fighting him when he is using weapons that are a danger to you. You can get a cheap hireling that can cure ability damage. Just because a cleric has an easier time does not mean there is anything wrong with your character much less Melee characters in general.

Clerics can be challenged in that game due to the intersession ability of the ghosts weeps which can make all divine casting impossible for a time. And while you can see videos of clerics blade barring their way through quests, for every person that does that well, there is someone new to the game who gets their but kicked doing it because they lack the practice and experience.

The only type of character that I could say may have no good options in that quest would be a finesse rogue. Anyone else simply needs to adjust tactics or level up a bit if they are having trouble.

Noctus
11-04-2010, 01:12 PM
i just can't stand this anymore... after a lot of suffering and endless hours of waiting for people to join my party etc. i finally flagged litany, okay?

that took me about 3 weeks... of course i'm not a hardcore player and i play about 4-5 hours a day.

now, today i tried litany in casual mode, killed all weaklings and only that blackguard skelly left with an asian-like name and i couldn't kill him because both my str and con drop to zero.

NOW THIS PART IS VERY IMPORTANT; if i was a caster, i would put a blade barrier or firewall or whatever... and just run around the columns... bam, he is dead, piece of cake.

is this fair? why do i have to make a caster to enjoy the game, without waiting hours to run a damn quest?

and don't say melee can do that too. NOT AS SUPER EASY AS A CASTER. not without super duper items.

casters only need their spells. heighten, maximize, get every possible damage increasement feats and enhacements out there and just take your time and kite things around.

it will take less time then forming a party in any case.



You have no experience - you have no clue!
Yet you want to tell us - what to do?

:rolleyes:



P.S.
Can easily be done by a melee. Just because you failed, doesnt mean something is unfair, overpowered, underpowered or impossible. :eek:

Talon_Moonshadow
11-04-2010, 01:27 PM
I usually range him. :D




Some of my chars, block and drink Lesser Restore pots, then swing at him again. :cool:

MrCow
11-04-2010, 01:41 PM
I'm curious what direction this will go for those of us who use Blade Barrier and Melee combat concurrently (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17wPX6ABqjM)?

Gulnar13
11-05-2010, 06:44 AM
I find your failure on this quest amusing on a melee, since i find easier to do it with my monk than my mage. And before the word "monk" fools you; it's a str based monk, not a wis-one. I'm like a bare handed barbarian. Also, i do it on normal - not casual. And i'm pretty sure i could reach the dragon even on hard/elite.

For the skeleton... try resto pots. Usually with 4-5 resto pots he go down. Also, flee from him when he put some really dangerous weapon (example: vorpal if you don't have a deathblock item; greater dorf bane if you're a dorf). As a last thing, kill the quell before you kill the skeleton.
If this don't work... bring a hireling FvS/Cleric.
If all this don't work... reroll. This skeleton is one of the easiest "solo" challenge. Hell, he even isn't a challenge.

WarMachine
03-25-2011, 05:24 AM
i just can't stand this anymore... after a lot of suffering and endless hours of waiting for people to join my party etc. i finally flagged litany, okay?

that took me about 3 weeks... of course i'm not a hardcore player and i play about 4-5 hours a day.

now, today i tried litany in casual mode, killed all weaklings and only that blackguard skelly left with an asian-like name and i couldn't kill him because both my str and con drop to zero.

NOW THIS PART IS VERY IMPORTANT; if i was a caster, i would put a blade barrier or firewall or whatever... and just run around the columns... bam, he is dead, piece of cake.

is this fair? why do i have to make a caster to enjoy the game, without waiting hours to run a damn quest?

and don't say melee can do that too. NOT AS SUPER EASY AS A CASTER. not without super duper items.

casters only need their spells. heighten, maximize, get every possible damage increasement feats and enhacements out there and just take your time and kite things around.

it will take less time then forming a party in any case.


Rather than complain that others can do it and you can't you could try to think of more tactics than auto-attacking, such as jumping on the torch on the wall and ranging him.

Really though, I think your problem is your attitude, with a bad attitude people won't talk to you to help you understand game mechanics better, and this may also be the cause of your problems finding groups.

Dunklerlindwurm
03-25-2011, 05:44 AM
Why posting on a 5 month old thread?

Mister_Peace
03-25-2011, 05:47 AM
If melee and magic were perfectly balanced, you would get something like 4e.

The fact that different classes use entirely different mechanics is one large reason why many people prefer D&D 3.5, and also why melee and magic can never be perfectly balanced.

Astraghal
03-25-2011, 06:37 AM
i just can't stand this anymore... after a lot of suffering and endless hours of waiting for people to join my party etc. i finally flagged litany, okay?

that took me about 3 weeks... of course i'm not a hardcore player and i play about 4-5 hours a day.

now, today i tried litany in casual mode, killed all weaklings and only that blackguard skelly left with an asian-like name and i couldn't kill him because both my str and con drop to zero.

NOW THIS PART IS VERY IMPORTANT; if i was a caster, i would put a blade barrier or firewall or whatever... and just run around the columns... bam, he is dead, piece of cake.

is this fair? why do i have to make a caster to enjoy the game, without waiting hours to run a damn quest?

and don't say melee can do that too. NOT AS SUPER EASY AS A CASTER. not without super duper items.

casters only need their spells. heighten, maximize, get every possible damage increasement feats and enhacements out there and just take your time and kite things around.

it will take less time then forming a party in any case.

You will get no sympathy for your point of view on these forums.

Too many people have too much invested in what is considered skillful play in this game for there to be much objectivity. DDO is a simple game compared to most and there isn't all that much scope for demonstrating skill or mastery against bad AI.

If you've come from another game, where defeating live opponents in real time in a contest where elements such as hand and eye coordination or unit and resource management are the benchmarks of skill and accomplishment, it may seem simplistic and exploitative to you when you see the kiting strategies used to defeat mobs and complete content in this game.

Players have found niches from which they can rule the roost of this particular game, in this case it's spell casters with some form of self-healing, a limitlessly replenishable power source and a way to inflict steady damage to mobs without having to make contact with them and run any serious risk of being killed.

But it's not even worth trying to argue about, because those who have found their niche and there are many because it's a lucrative one, will be able to rationalize how the minutiae of circle strafing through persistent area of effects requires great skill.

But that's DDO for you and it's unlikely to ever change. Your only recourse is to roll a caster. If you can handle that style of play.

Farayon
03-25-2011, 07:02 AM
/raise dead

Talon_Moonshadow
03-25-2011, 10:43 AM
Edit: Dang it! One of these days I will read the dates on these threads.... oh well.

bartosy
03-31-2011, 05:31 PM
i'm not talking about endgame though... you can't explain unfair with another. you just hang in there, keep sucking but try to hit 20. then you will rock? screw that.





it takes like 2 weeks if your pretty hardcore and maybe 10 if your extremely casual.. after that theres only the grind to 20s and gear if you dont want to tr.. wich will take months.

end game favours melee and not casters..

casters and clerics arent easy mode in comparison to melee.. its more the other way around in most cases.

Astraghal
03-31-2011, 08:59 PM
it takes like 2 weeks if your pretty hardcore and maybe 10 if your extremely casual.. after that theres only the grind to 20s and gear if you dont want to tr.. wich will take months.

end game favours melee and not casters..

casters and clerics arent easy mode in comparison to melee.. its more the other way around in most cases.

Melee's generally don't solo farm epic scrolls and solo raids and epics. :rolleyes:

For those obstinate, contrary trolls who will inevitably post the link to a melee solo'ing something, yes it's possible but the actual working figures for the split will be ~1% melee/~99% caster.