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Aexicas
11-01-2010, 02:42 PM
Note: As a forward, I do not PvP often. At times, I like to mix it up, or to do it as a joke, but I, admittedly, don't do it too much.

With that in mind, I suggestion a string of gear solely for PvPers. Wait! Hold your -1's, folks! This gear would be entirely for one purpose: PvP. It would have no more effect on your character than wearing a Robe with no Enchantments outside of the Arena.

Let's face it; this game is PvE central, and most of us, myself included, want it to keep that way. But, at the same rate, there are a decent amount of people that DO like PvP, and to ignore them would likely be a bad idea for Turbine to do. So here's my suggestions for implementation.

1) Add in a Points System, based on PvP that is entirely seperate from everything else. This would be based on nearly everything you do in combat, from Evading a spell, making a successful save, taking down a PC with either melee or magic, and a number of anything else.

2) Allow players to "purchase" items that are solely useable for PvP with said points. As such, items would look like this, as an example:
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Helmet of War
Uses: Generic Facemask Helmet Skin
Slot: Head
Arena Wisdom II - Within the Brawling Pit or the PvP Arena, you gain the benefit of Exceptional Wisdom II. This does not stack with the item ability Exceptional Wisdom II, nor does the ability function outside a Brawling Pit or a PvP Arena.
Arena Protection from Magic Missiles - Within a Brawling Pit or a PvP arena, you are warded from 20 Magic, Force, or Chain Missile attacks. These are replenished once a day fully; however, this effect does not function outside of a Brawling Pit or a PvP Arena.
-----------
Any balance issues between classes could be regulated through gear, and all of the said gear would be completely useless outside of those that want to PvP. Likewise, none of this gear would have unique skins; in fact, it would have, overall, rather generic skins. By this rate, nearly any sort of combination on weapons/armor/equipment, from vorpals to exceptional fire resistance 30's, could give the PvPers something for which to strive.

While likely not the addition PvPers would be waiting for, I think this would be something small to implement for them, giving them at least a bit of a drive to do what they enjoy, and it would give PvEers no cause for outcry, as it doesn't affect the balance of their game as well.

Thoughts?

voodoogroves
11-01-2010, 02:48 PM
Agree, with some serious caveats.

First, any hats should be "tin foil hats".

Second,

Third, they should never drop in a quest, period. The only exception would be if they dropped in the shroud as weapons of +8 or higher right beside spent energy cells.

Fourth, I recognize the development pool is relatively static in terms of bodies; however in my opinion whatever could be done in this area should be done with little to no impact on their other development (PVE). This may make the suggestion impractical to implement, though if adding this kind of item was super easy that someone could hand it off to an intern or manage it over lunch then I could see the investment.





Totally not against the idea of making some PVP-specific gear to handle PVP specific problems as long as it doesn't impact the PVE game in-game or in-development. I have serious doubts as to the capabilities there.

dkyle
11-01-2010, 02:51 PM
As with all PvP suggestions: not until everything with PvE is perfect and bugfree. Developer/programmer/tester time is limited. If PvP receives the attention necessary to implement something like this, that attention that would have been better spent on the rest of the game.

The only way any additions to PvP would be OK is if they are such a TP-sink, that Turbine can afford to fund new developers/programmers/testers to work on them.

Kominalito
11-01-2010, 02:52 PM
As with all PvP suggestions: not until everything with PvE is perfect and bugfree. Developer/programmer/tester time is limited. If PvP receives the attention necessary to implement something like this, that attention that would have been better spent on the rest of the game.

The only way any additions to PvP would be OK is if they are such a TP-sink, that Turbine can afford to fund new developers/programmers/testers to work on them.

^^^this

Aexicas
11-01-2010, 03:00 PM
As with all PvP suggestions: not until everything with PvE is perfect and bugfree. Developer/programmer/tester time is limited. If PvP receives the attention necessary to implement something like this, that attention that would have been better spent on the rest of the game.

While I agree with you on one hand (that being, I do think PvE needs to be debugified), think about it this way.

For three years, that's what people have been saying. Every suggestion met with the same response. So, okay, they backburner it. It's the right course, right?

But how long can you keep saying "not until everything is perfect with our other more important parts of the game"? Realistically, you ignore one aspect of the game (which, admittedly, isn't played as much BECAUSE it's ignored) for other aspects of the game.

In the end, the fact is, the game will NEVER be "perfect" and "bugfree". Games that have been around for much longer than DDO aren't those, many are not even close.

Yes, I agree, we should spend our developer attention elsewhere on the majority. I'm not saying this change should be in for the next update, or even the update afterwards. But, as something that should be looked at, I think it could be a viable option.

Pape_27
11-01-2010, 03:03 PM
A few thoughts about this. You mention that ppl would have to purchase such gear with points. TP or Pvp Points? If its TP there will be an uproar that people have to pay extra for the items. If they are paying extra, then they have more leverage to demand changes to the game system as a whole. Not such a good idea imo. But to those who think pvp is life?

Secondly, If they pay with points earned for pvp play, then its open to serious amounts of abuse/exploitation. Want to twink your toon out for pvp? Get a few like-minded friends to stand in the arena. Nuke them to all get out over and over. Earn your points. When you have enough points to get your gear, its their turn to go to town. Soon you have all the gear to dominate in the pit and can feel free to grief (yes its griefing when a 20 sorc nukes a 4 cleric) any and all comers.

Once the gear becomes available, people will want to be able to get it via in game play. So, once this type of gearing system gets implemented, its hard to stop the creep of such items into general game play because the people who do reguarly push for pvp improvements will push for it. And push hard. I would be seriously ticked if I completed a quest and popped a chest and half the gear randomly generated was for pvp only.

And lastly, where are you going to put it all? ddo is already very stingy on space allocated to gear. I cant imagine (well, i suppose I can) that anybody would actually want to devote an entire page of inventory content to gear and or weapons restricted to pvp use.

_

dkyle
11-01-2010, 03:07 PM
But how long can you keep saying "not until everything is perfect with our other more important parts of the game"?

Oh, I know it's a moving goal that'll never be reached. That's how unimportant I think PvP is. Even if they managed to have a whole separate team who works on PvP, funded entirely by PvP-related Store items, I still wouldn't be thrilled about it because PvP tends to draw in an element I'm not interested in dealing with in PvE.

Uska
11-01-2010, 03:10 PM
Not bad ideas except for my one chief complaint I make in all pvp threads not if it takes dev time (which would pretty much be any) away from pve which is of more use for all.

Aexicas
11-01-2010, 03:17 PM
To Address, comments in red:


A few thoughts about this. You mention that ppl would have to purchase such gear with points. TP or Pvp Points? If its TP there will be an uproar that people have to pay extra for the items. If they are paying extra, then they have more leverage to demand changes to the game system as a whole. Not such a good idea imo. But to those who think pvp is life? PvP points, entirely.

Secondly, If they pay with points earned for pvp play, then its open to serious amounts of abuse/exploitation. Want to twink your toon out for pvp? Get a few like-minded friends to stand in the arena. Nuke them to all get out over and over. Earn your points. When you have enough points to get your gear, its their turn to go to town. Soon you have all the gear to dominate in the pit and can feel free to grief (yes its griefing when a 20 sorc nukes a 4 cleric) any and all comers.

This could be solved by a ranking system [IE, you must be above x "game ranked rank [not player rank]" to equip], though I do see what you're saying. Still, this is the reason why, on the example item, I put out that the effects -would not stack- with PvE items. That said, yes, it does open up for griefing possibilities. However, as you, yourself, have said, it already is griefing when a 20 sorc dances, stones, blinds, and slows a level 4, leaving them. This, unfortunately, will not change that aspect.

Once the gear becomes available, people will want to be able to get it via in game play. So, once this type of gearing system gets implemented, its hard to stop the creep of such items into general game play because the people who do reguarly push for pvp improvements will push for it. And push hard. I would be seriously ticked if I completed a quest and popped a chest and half the gear randomly generated was for pvp only. Fear not; PvP items would not be -ever- in game play. That would be a limitation on the system. Personally, in the games that I've played that had PvP specific items, those items never made it outside of the PvP ring.

And lastly, where are you going to put it all? ddo is already very stingy on space allocated to gear. I cant imagine (well, i suppose I can) that anybody would actually want to devote an entire page of inventory content to gear and or weapons restricted to pvp use. This would be a pseudo limitation; space, itself, would limit the amount of PvP items you could, and would, hold. That said, these items also would be bound to character, as well. The fact is, this is for those that want to seriously PvP, and even also benefits those that only want to casually PvP.

If necessary, there could be a PvP banker, I'd suppose, who only would hold your PvP items, but, I would -really- not like it to go that far.

_

Just a few ideas.

Pape_27
11-01-2010, 03:23 PM
To Address, comments in red:



Just a few ideas.


Thank you for a reply that did not include "GTFO off my thread". There's hope for pvp aficionados after all.

Still think the system, while there is some merit to it, leaves a lot to be desired because of rank exploitation that will occur. And I'm not saying pvp'ers are solely responsible for exploitation. But we all know once a way to exploit something is found, its worked to death.


_

Aexicas
11-01-2010, 03:32 PM
Thank you for a reply that did not include "GTFO off my thread". There's hope for pvp aficionados after all.

Still think the system, while there is some merit to it, leaves a lot to be desired because of rank exploitation that will occur. And I'm not saying pvp'ers are solely responsible for exploitation. But we all know once a way to exploit something is found, its worked to death.


_

Of course not, you weren't abrasive or the like, no sense in being rude! And plus, I'm no afficionado; I'd just like to see the game be all it can be, y'know?

And I do agree; this is a system that would have to be throughly hammered out, over time. And again, you're right; if there was a way to exploit the system, it would be worked at every angle (or corner =p) that you could think of.

Still, that's mainly why I'm posting this; to get general thoughts (on both sides of the argument). I knew the general response would be "No dev time spent, please", but, for those that would be interested, I'd like to hear your thoughts on how to make the system better, regardless. If we can work a bit of the thinking out for the devs, then maybe it'll free them up a bit, they won't spend so much time on it, and perhaps the general sentiment (or complaint, should I say), wouldn't be "Lol PvP sucks and you suck for PvPing at all".

Really, this is self-serving, too, as I get tired of hearing both people complain about PvP, and people complaining about complainers complaining about PvP. =p

Pape_27
11-01-2010, 03:44 PM
If you want to implement a system like this, the only way i could think of doing it is kinda like this.

Player A wants a certain piece of pvp gear, say a Holy Great Sword of Broccoli Finding. He needs 1,000 pvp points to get it. He enters the pit and starts to whack away.

Lvl 18 Player A hits Level 16-20 Player B for 550 hp of damage. Player B dies. Player A earns 10 points.

Player A then proceeds to take out other similarly leveled players - (Not player B) he accrues points. and keeps them.

If Player A and Player B repeat the scenario X (5, 8, 10 times - devs choice or randomly generated number), a pattern is recognized. Player A and Player B both incur severe pvp point fines losing all points gained within a 24 hr period and are hit with a penalty to the tune of say -2,000 pvp points. Any pvp gear that they have is disabled until that penalty is absolved.

Something like that might work.


_

Aashrym
11-01-2010, 06:20 PM
Not bad ideas except for my one chief complaint I make in all pvp threads not if it takes dev time (which would pretty much be any) away from pve which is of more use for all.

I agree with Uska. I pay my subscription to support development activities that I would like to see. PvE supports everyone. PvP does not.

Lorien_the_First_One
11-01-2010, 06:34 PM
As with all PvP suggestions: not until everything with PvE is perfect and bugfree. Developer/programmer/tester time is limited. If PvP receives the attention necessary to implement something like this, that attention that would have been better spent on the rest of the game.

The only way any additions to PvP would be OK is if they are such a TP-sink, that Turbine can afford to fund new developers/programmers/testers to work on them.

Well said

Llewndyn
11-02-2010, 08:46 AM
that it loses all functionality when h4x0rific uses it or gives him a -8 in will saves; otherwise, his posts stop and readership drops dramatically

TitoJ
11-02-2010, 09:26 AM
As with all PvP suggestions: not until everything with PvE is perfect and bugfree. Developer/programmer/tester time is limited. If PvP receives the attention necessary to implement something like this, that attention that would have been better spent on the rest of the game.

The only way any additions to PvP would be OK is if they are such a TP-sink, that Turbine can afford to fund new developers/programmers/testers to work on them.

Have you played one MMORPG that was perfect and bug free? Even if it could be perfect and bug free, developing better PVP would most likely be considered by people who say this, as taking away time dev's could be spending on making new pve content. You've got to consider DDO's ability to market to all walks of video gaming...and PVP is a huge market. This ain't your PnP...I've never even played PnP and don't care to...I'm just a gamer who likes the video game...probably like many more.