View Full Version : Tier III Spellsinger Ideas

10-31-2010, 12:41 PM
I previously start 2 threads, one on some war chanter ideas and one on some virtuoso ideas (located here http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=277123 and here http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=277283) and thought I'd start on some spellsinger ideas.

These general ideas have come up in the past and I wanted to try to structure it a bit better.

1) Spellsong trance and song of arcane might bonuses are not high enough. Increase both to +2 from +1 with the 3rd tier of spellsinger.

2) Stay consistent and add +100 SP, +2 UMD, +2 concentration. The SP is a bonus and even if we don't really need the skill bonuses so much that gives us room to play around with the UMD sweet spots a bit and frees up some skills points for other areas. Small boon but a boon none-the-less.

3) Either increase the mass DV value or increase the DV chance to 100%.

All 3 of the above points make the existing songs better to scale up a bit more with level, none of which is a huge increase.

The big benefit I would like to see added is the addition of spells puchased thru AP. Reviewing the spell chart progressing tables indicates bards should have access to 2 level 7 spells at 19th level and 3 7th level spells at 20th level.

3.5 rules omitted these for whatever reason but add them to a spell focused bard makes sense to have them and it also provides a better build in the MMO environment with current strategies / mob inflated hp et al. Limit the number of 7th level spells bought thru AP to 3 spells to be consistent with the spell progression tables and have Spellsinger III as a requirement.

The spells I would like to see added as :

1) Heal (2AP, LVL7, 40SP base cost)
2) Mass Cure Serious (2AP, LVL7, 40SP base cost)
3) Mass Hold Monster (2AP, LVL7, 40SP base cost)
4) Dominate Monster (2AP, LVL7, 40SP base cost)
5) Mass Invisibility (2AP, LVL7, 40SP base cost)
6) Summon Monster VII (2AP, LVL7, 40SP base cost)

This would be specific to spellsingers. I would like to see a lot more bard spells added to the standard lists to be available to all bards.


Edit: We might need to revisit the AP cost on some of those abilities for balance. However, this does look like something that provides a strong alternative to the SP spent in some other areas.

11-01-2010, 12:49 PM
I have views and no replies. I bet if I mentioned PvP there would be responses. :D

Does anyone have other spells they would like to see added to spellsingers this way that follow the general trend for spell types?

11-01-2010, 12:57 PM
I have views and no replies. I bet if I mentioned PvP there would be responses. :D

Does anyone have other spells they would like to see added to spellsingers this way that follow the general trend for spell types?

Yeah - I agree with the basic premise of what you said - allow for more spell options for caster bards.

11-01-2010, 01:12 PM
Yeah - I agree with the basic premise of what you said - allow for more spell options for caster bards.

What about the delivery method to get some non-bard bard-like spells available to spellsingers?

12-13-2011, 09:52 PM
I love your ideas there, a teir 3 would be great, and dont forget you can also get mabey one of them from your Shaverath Necklace Set too! And The new spell list of SPellsinger exclusives for Teir3 is beautiful. I really wish bards got hold monster, Mass. for the Increase in caster level, that may be a little OP but i do agree with you because that would be awshum! and for teh Vigor, it occasionally will crit for 4sp, (very very very very rare chance) but i would agree, that would be a good teir 3 bounus or on a Shaverath Bounus. Also Idea, mabey add a new song? Id have to say mabey on the lines of increasing spell penitration rolls by like addind a +2 song bonus to rolls.(which would be a great thing) Thats me spitballin tho but great thread starting

12-13-2011, 10:04 PM
(obligatory Stormsinger / Lyric Thaumaturge comment)

12-13-2011, 10:16 PM
This would be incredibly overpowered in PvP. :) Just for you, Ash.

Yeah, I like it. Good jumpoff point.

12-14-2011, 08:48 PM
- i would suggest mass hold person before mass hold monster. bards should probably be slightly more focused on humanoids anyways. still, either or both would be nice. but honestly, i would even settle for some of the following spells:
- i would love a mass resistible dance (not like dancing ball, which is a persistent AOE, but simply an AOE ranged version of resistible dance).
- mass daze monster would be just wonderful as well.
- a persistent AOE sleep cloud would be pretty cool.
- greater command would not be unwelcome at all.

- i would vote for a +2 evocation or at least evocation(sonic) DC to go on our greater shout and sonic blast spells. illusion or conjuration optional (illusion only if they bother releasing enough illusion spells to matter; conjuration would only effect cure spells and glitterdust i think, so not extremely important). this should be a self-buff, not a sing for everyone buff, as a sing-for-everyone buff would be too powerful. (edit: the idea behind this particular buff is to match the bard capstone's effectiveness in areas other than enchantment; it actually puts them at the same level as a sorcerer, provided they cap, but still below a wizard).

- also, i would like to actually see my songs fixed to work properly on warforged and undead (ie pale masters in form). i'm sure virtuoso players won't be terribly upset if you should manage to make that work for their song also.

- songwise, i'd like to see vigor become AOE (but i'd settle for AOE when the spellsinger ToD set is equipped). i think it would be interesting to see a new song that adds to sonic damage dealt, and/or adds sonic damage to weapons.

if we get an AOE vigor (so that we no longer are desperately starved for songs/day)...

- an offensive song or two would nice... an AOE sonic DoT centered either on the bard or at a target location would be *really* nice. it wouldn't have to be a ton of damage, but it would be nice if one song fully buffed with reasonable gear/enhancements would at least kill most groups of trash mobs on normal difficulty level 18 quests by the time it ends.
- alternately, a song that grants transform kinetic energy would also be an extremely welcome ability.
- a song that casts weird (AOE phantasmal killer) would also be nice.

of course, if all of this came for just the price of 2 AP, it would probably be too much. but still, i gotta throw it out there. i'd love for several of these options to be implemented. bard CC needs more AOE options.

12-15-2011, 12:19 AM
I'm surprised this thread was necro'd. I had a much more popular thread on the go that turned into a feedback and suggestion thread.


@Jaid: I've suggested both mass hold monster and mass hold person in the past. I can see the mass person single target monster as a reasonable line of thought with the class easily enough. A lot of players want mass hold monster on the premise that top end CC spells are appropriate to the class given the weak damage spells and no instant death. I would be good either way, tbh.

Given the themes that normally come with bard spells (enchantments, illusions, sonic) I would be looking at adding phantasmal killer as an appropriate spell. Moving some of the capstone benefit from the capstone to spellsinger III (war chanters melee and don't need them, and virts are geared to songs more) and increasing them to enchantments, illusions, and sonic spell wouldn't be a bad move. Leave the bonus songs, longer songs, add song a modified song of the heart feat, leave the CHA bonus and move the spell penetration / DC bonuses to spellsinger as an example.

That would make the capstone more friendly to all bard PrE's instead of just caster based.

I come up with bard suggestions rather periodically. :D

12-16-2011, 04:25 PM
Bard have Mass Hold Person FYI lvl 6 spell (or lvl 5) :p

Also a super specailized song too

Such as-->
Spellsinger: Mass AoE Spell regen
Virtuoso: Mass instakill song (they are the masters of Sonics and Subsonics, in the 3.5 extensions specificly about bards, give them like a Wail of the Banshee song cus thats a major sound isntakill)
Warchanter: ...well, you can tell what types i play ...