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View Full Version : The elvish Batman, the true prince of sharn.



ARcdevil
10-31-2010, 11:08 AM
Today I was a bit bored, having had enough of my gimpy main, my big weaponed gunner and a charcter which I wasn't sure why I still had it. I decided to build something else. here is what I came up with.

Thanks to Junts for the template I stole from his post on a very good looking build.

Kurami D' Vol Drow Rogue 2, paladin 6, fighter 12 ( Somewon Tr'ing into this will find the build a lot better.)

Str: 15 ( +5 level up points)
Dex: 16 ( +1 elf dex)
Con:12
Int: 14
Wis: 8
Cha: 14 ( +1 pally cha)

1:toughness
3: Power attack
6:TWF
9:IC Pierce
F:ITWF
F:Whep focus Pierce
12:GTWF
F:Whep Spec Pierce
15:Combat expertise
F: Greater weapon focus
18:Greater wepon spec
F:

Levels
1, rogue
2-7, paladin
8, rogue
9-20 fighter

I am open to other races if someone can show me sufficent reason to, I'm not sure why but I'm not keen on twf.

Enhancements.
4: Vulkoor/Sov host, Drow attack/ dmg
(both), pally Cha, Racial and pally toughness, faster sneaking and sneak Atk training.

The build is also suppposed to be able to switch between kensai and stalwart depending on what the party needs, much like the mobster

I have no tomes however I have 32 pt, and the forged.

Zilta
10-31-2010, 11:15 AM
sadly, batman builds dont exist since evasion was changed :P

ARcdevil
10-31-2010, 11:18 AM
how was evasion changed? As far as I know theres nothing wrong with the build for actual playing aside from unchosen feats and such.

Kourier
10-31-2010, 12:14 PM
Evasion doesn't work in heavy armor... But I dunno how that affects your build

ARcdevil
10-31-2010, 01:47 PM
Simples I don't wear heavy or mdeium armour, I already knew that just presumed it had always worked like that.
( I wonder if anyone will get the reference in this post?

Tydeth
10-31-2010, 01:59 PM
Some time ago, Evasion was bugged and did work in bigger armor. This bug resulted in the "Batman" builds. Turbine fixed the bug, and that more or less stopped those builds cold. Granted, they probably could use the newer gear to revive this kind of build in robes/light armor, but the point of it was the heavy armored dodger.

Chai
10-31-2010, 02:04 PM
You can wear mithril armor that would normally be medium and use evasion, due to the mithril tag dropping the armor into the light category.

If youre not a tank it doesnt matter anyhow - just use robes and outfits for fast switching.

ARcdevil
10-31-2010, 02:57 PM
SO is this completely gimped and i shoudlgive up?

DrNuegebauer
10-31-2010, 03:02 PM
SO is this completely gimped and i shoudlgive up?

Not sure about anyone else, but I can't see your plan yet...

Put in your feat plans and ask again?

unbongwah
11-01-2010, 10:12 AM
SO is this completely gimped and i shoudlgive up?
I think the problem is right now it isn't clear what you want out of this build:


Why paladin 6 / ftr 12 rather than sticking with one class or the other?
Why elf / Undying Court if you want to use 2H weapons?
Why so much INT & DEX?

I realize you've only started making this and I'm fine with novelty builds - they're usually more fun than pure DPS builds, IMHO - but you need to have a clear idea of what you want out of them and how you plan to play.

jcTharin
11-01-2010, 10:26 AM
from what i heard the batman build was an AC intimidate tank. that could do everything. and in its time the AC tank was more useful and desired than it is today. there were also a lot more scrolls that you could buy from the vendor that you cant buy today.

it could,

tank anything with its high AC

intimidate anything with its high charisma

UMD anything with its high charisma

evade anything, in full plate, because of its crazy high saves. and the evasion bug.

and it could save against anything. period.

it could do everything, and do it very well. so it got nerfed. your trying to make a flavor of the month build that died a long time ago.

t0r012
11-01-2010, 10:29 AM
I think the problem is right now it isn't clear what you want out of this build:


Why paladin 6 / ftr 12 rather than sticking with one class or the other? yes a fine question this

Why elf / Undying Court if you want to use 2H weapons? Ohh, ohh pick me, pick me...raises hand....Falchion

Why so much INT & DEX?
I'm guess dex for the reflex save? but with a pally you would get more form going with more Cha and getting the same + to ALL your saves.

Int for trapskills maybe? if it is bad idea IMO
Yeah I don't like it either.


I realize you've only started making this and I'm fine with novelty builds - they're usually more fun than pure DPS builds, IMHO - but you need to have a clear idea of what you want out of them and how you plan to play.

I can dig a flavor build and a flavor build with purpose and built smart to fit that purpose is great.
This build just doesn't have a purpose more like lets mash in all the stuff i have heard is good.

I'd go for the standard 18pally/2 rogue and then go THF elf Falchion and build out from there. Pallys are tough to go Elf falchion though Undying is nice and you have to take it for PrE but the racial weapon bonuses are tough to squeak in on a pally as they have sooooo many great AP choices.

ARcdevil
11-01-2010, 10:37 AM
I wasn't entirely sure on the feat choices so I just out in things I thought people would defiently say I need and wing it from there.

unbongwah
11-01-2010, 01:41 PM
Ohh, ohh pick me, pick me...raises hand....Falchion
In theory it's a good idea to take elf for the Valenar enhs to falchions on a THF paladin; but in practice I find you run out of enh pts long before you can take them all on a paladin. And since Undying Court's bonus is to scimitars not falchions, it seems like a suboptimal pick for THF IMHO. And if you're thinking about endgame, I'd say you want an epic Sword of Shadows, which is greatsword not falchion, so elf has no real advantage there. At least a drow would have +2 CHA.

I'm fine with people who pick a suboptimal race for RPing reasons or whatever, I just think they should know going in what the tradeoffs are.

As examples of novel fighter / paladins with some synergies, I posted a couple of builds in this thread (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=280627) a while back: one's a TWF monk 2 / ftr 12 / pal 6 (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3346271&postcount=19); the other's THF rogue 2 / ftr 12 / pal 6 (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3346306&postcount=21). Halfling for the healing DMs (and DEX bonus on TWF build); paladin for saves boost, KotC I, and boosting the Marks with metamagics & Devotion; fighter for Kensai II; both have Evasion. Monk TWF build might even be able to hit decent AC (though not great w/base WIS 8 and no CE).

krud
11-01-2010, 02:01 PM
SO is this completely gimped and i shoudlgive up?
I have a human version of this build. Mine is a stalwart defender-HotD twf/intimitank, but when i get back to playing full time, I may switch him to Kensai2. It's a very good survivable build through all the levels. Not top dps, but it still does plenty. Since the hate generation for the defender stances seems to be broken, divine righteusness is a good fallback plan. I would probably go with kensai2 instead of stalwart for an elf. The human feats help you hit the epic DQ intim scores. Since the elf doesn't get those, might as well settle for an intim that's good enough for everything else, and focus on dps with kensai2.


Stat: You probably could go with 12 int for skills, and then get +1 tome for CE. You could put dex at 15, then you'd only need a +2 dex tome just in case you want to go twf.

ARcdevil
11-02-2010, 01:04 PM
I will happily change race if people say I should. I dont really intend to RP and I just thought raise dead? Yum Yum ( or whatever people say like that on the forum.

krud
11-03-2010, 07:20 AM
I will happily change race if people say I should. I dont really intend to RP and I just thought raise dead? Yum Yum ( or whatever people say like that on the forum.
with enough umd you'll be able to cast raise dead scrolls. Elf will give you the ability to do it a few levels sooner (once very 10min), until your umd gets high enough. I wouldn't use that as the deciding factor.

ARcdevil
11-03-2010, 11:49 AM
So maybe i use undying court untill I can raise dead with scrolls and then switch to longswords?
Sounds rather odd since On a elf the only reason to use longswords over scimitars is longswords are cheaper. At the moment I can get some decent scimitars quite easily.

ARcdevil
11-04-2010, 03:01 PM
Change of the build from elf to drow and No longer a true Batman build.

krud
11-04-2010, 11:17 PM
Change of the build from elf to drow and No longer a true Batman build.
Any race can be a batman, however, most of the original batmans were human. Drow was also a popular choice when they first came out. Human versatility used to give a full time bonus to all skills, including umd. That, and the bonus feat and extra skill points made it easy to be a trapsmith, evasion, high AC tank, who could umd any scroll in the game when level cap was 10 (raise dead being the biggie back then). Batmans are still very posible, they just don't dominate in as many areas as they used to.

Drow make it easier for newer players to do a batman. Int, Dex and Cha are all needed for a twf batman build. Take a couple of extra toughness feats to offset the lower con and it can work out fine.

wiglin
11-05-2010, 12:00 AM
Batman builds were very popular during the level 12 cap for a couple of reasons.

Evasion worked in heavy armor and human versatility gave a static +5 to all skills.

Both of these where changed to their current form. The whole idea of the batman builds was to have the following. If you do not have all three in your build then it is not a batman build in the sense of how they were created during mod1 and mod2.

1) Untouchable AC
2) Evasion
3) Full Rogue Abilities (traps and locks)

Many people have given the name batman to any build that focuses on ac and evasion, but without trap skills you are not a batman build. Batman had a tool belt and devices for every situation. This is why the name batman was given to the build, it was a 1 stop shop for everything melee and rogue.

ARcdevil
11-05-2010, 10:59 AM
I did say this isn't a proper Batman build in a post since AC is no longer a focus. It is simply a DPS that is slightly self sufficent and will fight for as long as posiible. Also The reason for 14 staring dex in the orignal is because I Wanted decent stealth skills.

Tanka
11-05-2010, 11:07 AM
Some time ago, Evasion was bugged and did work in bigger armor. This bug resulted in the "Batman" builds. Turbine fixed the bug, and that more or less stopped those builds cold. Granted, they probably could use the newer gear to revive this kind of build in robes/light armor, but the point of it was the heavy armored dodger.
It wasn't so much "bugged" as one of the devs thought it was WAI and adamantly refused to change it.

ARcdevil
11-05-2010, 12:58 PM
What does WAI actually mean?

Tanka
11-05-2010, 01:00 PM
Working As Intended

unbongwah
11-05-2010, 02:17 PM
4: Undying court thing, Drow attack/ dmg
FYI, Undying Court is elf-only: no drow allowed.

Anyway, while messing with the builder I came up with this build based on your original idea: elf rogue 2 / pal 6 / ftr 12. Rogue for UMD & Evasion, pally for UC & KotC I, ftr for Kensai / SD II. Took the elf DMs mostly for Displacement. Probably needs work, but might give you some inspiration.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Female
(12 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 294
Spell Points: 45
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 16
Will: 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 24
Dexterity 16 18
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 12 13
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 14 14

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Trip


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
Enhancement: Undying Call
Enhancement: Follower of the Undying Court
Enhancement: Kensei Scimitar Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Scimitar Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Scimitar Specialization I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I

krud
11-05-2010, 05:36 PM
FYI, Undying Court is elf-only: no drow allowed.

Anyway, while messing with the builder I came up with this build based on your original idea: elf rogue 2 / pal 6 / ftr 12. Rogue for UMD & Evasion, pally for UC & KotC I, ftr for Kensai / SD II. Took the elf DMs mostly for Displacement. Probably needs work, but might give you some inspiration.

here's a drow version I posted long ago. It's a stalwart, but could easily be adapted to kensai. Almost the exact same setup, except as drow. I save the last two paladin levels for 19,20, so I can get kensai2 and gr weapon spec a bit earlier

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=231026

ARcdevil
11-06-2010, 02:17 AM
Oh sorry about he whole undying court thing I looked through the unhancements when changing to drow and missed that one it is supposed to be vulkoor.

unbongwah
11-06-2010, 11:34 PM
On a drow paladin I would still pick Sovereign Host over Vulkoor: free Heal > free summons; and most drow paladins use rapiers not short swords (for the larger crit range), so the +1 to-hit w/SSs from Vulkoor is meaningless.

ARcdevil
11-09-2010, 02:08 PM
I will probably switch to sov host at higher levels but I have always loved seeing a big monster guarding me and being my slave. all we need now is it to be comanded like a hireling and I could create the ultimate summoner drow cleric.

ARcdevil
11-13-2010, 03:12 AM
Updated (Please dont make me lose even more rep after the last time I bumped something, I know can't even make someone lose rep for a bad post.

ThePrincipal
11-17-2010, 12:30 AM
If you want a high int for traps/skill points, you can take a lower STR and roll a finese build with rapiers, assuming youre going drow. high int will also open up combat expertise which opens up the possibility of tanking. also consider taking force of personality for uber will saves.

ARcdevil
11-30-2010, 01:09 PM
Ok Finesse build seems like a good idea.