PDA

View Full Version : Quest level bonus for shortmanning raids?



dunklezhan
10-26-2010, 05:46 PM
This is just a suggestion - quelle surprise in the suggestions' thread - its not something I feel strongly about, it just struck me that it might be nice, without breaking anything.

If you short man a raid, how about adding +1 to the effective quest level for each man short you are, solely for the purposes of awarding XP?

That explanation may not illustrate my point very well. Let me give an example:

On a whim, three guildies decided to run the new chronoscope raid (which I loved, actually. I don't usually love raids, I probably liked it so much because no-one knew what to expect and with only 3 of us we were free to take our time. I digress).

We were massively overlevel, and decided to run it on hard for favor purposes if nothing else. Still, we nearly wiped a couple of times, even though one of us was FVS and another a cleric, and we were buffed to the 9s. Both of them were running on low SP a lot and we needed to shrine twice. It was not easy. Still, we got zero XP.

Note I'm not complaining. I knew this would be the case going in. But after finishing, I did feel that we'd worked pretty hard. We got some nice loot to hand down to alts, I'll not deny that at all, and we got favor. But I just felt the characters involved did deserve something for it, XP wise - it was a challenge.

So my suggestion would have meant that we added 9 to the quest level to determine whether or not we were awarded the base XP. Putting it at a L15 quest. Given that our levels were 11, 15 and 16, that feels about right for the risks - though I realise with a L16 in the group my L11 was never going to get any XP anyway. 1 level higher however, and there would have been something.

Note I'm talking about allowing for award of the base XP. No bonus to be given for it being on hard, and the 'powerlevelling' penalties should still apply. No modification to the loot tables.

Just to determine whether participants qualify for any XP.

What d'you think, forumites?

Just to say again - I really did enjoy that raid, supermegamechafuntimeubergargoylebonusmangastorm boss and all. This suggestion is not about that raid, or any other specific raid. Its just an idea - plus it would encourage people to try shortmanning raids which can only lead to funtimes, surely?

Edit - I thought of another benefit of this approach: at the XP-sparse levels (17+ I'm told) this would provide another option to gain XP. Ideal for that TR grind I keep hearing about and have no wish to take part in.....

Bradik_Losdar
10-26-2010, 06:51 PM
I agree with you to a certain extent.

I don't think there should ever be a mechanic put in place to reward shortmanning in DDO. This is a group based game. Encouraging shortmanning in any form is just plain bad.

That said, I think what you were trying to say is that there was no XP awarded for an obviously tough challenge for you and your two friends. Here I agree. Perhaps there ought to be a one time only 'first run' XP award (not bonus) for characters running a quest for the first time regardless of their level (maybe make this per account?). That way non-capped characters recieve some experience for the brand new challenge the player goes through.

But look at it this way, even if you didn't get any xp, it sounds like you had a blast running it. AND I'm sure you didn't leave empty handed for all the work you put in. You got some nice Coin Lord favor, and probably a fair amount of loot as well. :D

dunklezhan
10-27-2010, 01:39 AM
I agree with you to a certain extent.

I don't think there should ever be a mechanic put in place to reward shortmanning in DDO. This is a group based game. Encouraging shortmanning in any form is just plain bad.


That's very true, I hadn't looked at it like that.


But look at it this way, even if you didn't get any xp, it sounds like you had a blast running it. AND I'm sure you didn't leave empty handed for all the work you put in. You got some nice Coin Lord favor, and probably a fair amount of loot as well. :D

That's also true, which I more or less said in my OP.

Meh. Like I say, it was just a thought really.

Schwarzie
10-27-2010, 05:04 AM
I don't think there should ever be a mechanic put in place to reward shortmanning in DDO. This is a group based game. Encouraging shortmanning in any form is just plain bad. They already encourage shortmanning due to the 10% exp you loose for dieing.

dunklezhan
10-27-2010, 06:25 AM
They already encourage shortmanning due to the 10% exp you loose for dieing.

No you don't. You gain 10% for not dying. Its a bonus that they apply from the start, not the base XP level.

Honestly, I'm tempted make a new suggestion thread asking them to hide the 'no death' and the 're-entry' bonuses from the XP screen until they've been earned at the end.

They're supposed to be things you try for, not something that causes an assumption that this is how its supposed to go. Quests are supposed to kill the occasional character. If they weren't, Permadeath wouldn't be such a popular play option.

Back on topic - I haven't seen anything that convinces me that Bradik is wrong: we shouldn't actively encourage anything that suggests grouping is not the main focus of the game. That's actually the reason I supported the replacement of solo mode with 'casual' - regardless of whether that level of easiness was needed, at least it meant you could still take a group in.

redoubt
10-27-2010, 07:13 PM
No you don't. You gain 10% for not dying. Its a bonus that they apply from the start, not the base XP level.

Honestly, I'm tempted make a new suggestion thread asking them to hide the 'no death' and the 're-entry' bonuses from the XP screen until they've been earned at the end.

They're supposed to be things you try for, not something that causes an assumption that this is how its supposed to go. Quests are supposed to kill the occasional character. If they weren't, Permadeath wouldn't be such a popular play option.

Back on topic - I haven't seen anything that convinces me that Bradik is wrong: we shouldn't actively encourage anything that suggests grouping is not the main focus of the game. That's actually the reason I supported the replacement of solo mode with 'casual' - regardless of whether that level of easiness was needed, at least it meant you could still take a group in.

There used to be a mechanic to get extra xp if you ran a quest under level. But that was removed a while back. Thus I don't see much hope for this idea either, even though its not horrible.

On the sidebar, I assume I will get both bonuses to xp when I run with my guildies. Joining a pug I expect a 10% loss. (Don't get me started on people actually recalling to come back in.) Now, while you are technically correct that it is a bonus. I know its there. If someone dies... well we lost the bonus.

edit: oh yeah, I agree with the prior poster who said Turbine is encourageing short manning. It is often faster and more xp to short man. Losing (symantics, I know) 10% for a death and taking longer to go save said soul stone does encourage people to short man. I know, because, I and many of my friends all short man for these reasons. That said, still don't have any hearburn with your idea. Would be fun to short man tempest spine a few levels higher and still get good xp. 8)

Phidius
10-27-2010, 07:42 PM
No you don't. You gain 10% for not dying. Its a bonus that they apply from the start, not the base XP level...

It doesn't really matter if you consider it "losing 10%" or "not gaining 10%" - either way, you increases the chance of being further from your next level for each additional person you bring into a group by the time the quest is over.

However, that 10% is not worth the stress accumulated by treating every other player in DDO as a detriment. Ignore the "bonus", and play the game.