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karikari969
10-25-2010, 08:36 PM
Build : Pale- Ninja
Race : Drow Elf***
***This is a personal choice, when i play a fantasy game, im going to be something fantasy. We already have such things as robots and i do not want to be a human when i am one in real life.****

Use your brain. What else do you think this is? Obviously its a melee wizard. If you do not think wizards should melee maybe you should continue reading and have your mind expanded a bit. Nothing hates me more than those with what i like to call "Tunnel Vision"

This build utilizes several prestige enhancements
Wizard : Pale Master II
Monk : Ninja-Spy I

The wizard pale master II is only for the extra HP and for the increase in negative energy damage done. As well as the ability to turn into either a lich or wraith****.

****
I have attempted both. And from what i have recorded from both every single aspect available. The lich form outweight wraith form almost completely. While you deal constitution damage and have a 20% incoporeality chance to miss as a wraith, the raw power and damage done from lich form far outweighs those of the wraith. From what i understand the miss chance from ninjaspy and blur will stack, but not with displacement, or wraith incoporeality. So what i usually do is put both ninja spy blur, and wizard blur on at once for a 40 some odd% chance to have them miss me while in lich form.
****

Here is the damage i do with the current weapons and gear i have on at the moment

+5 Holy Burst handwraps of Pure Good
Sometimes I'll equip Deaths Touch in my off hand and Equip a Scroll in my main hand so i have unarmed melee capabilities while having negative spell enhancement in my offhand for self healing purposes.

1d6 +10 Physical damage
2d6 Holy Damage (3d6 if crit)
1d8 Negative Energy Damage (while in lich form).*****
40-50 Negative Energy every 2 Seconds. Death Aura- AoE-

15% Increased Attack Speed
+15% Additional Attack Speed from Fighter Haste I
30% burst attack speed. This is really nice considering the damage you do with your melee attacks

******
I have seen procs above 8 before. Which leads me to believe that like all enhancements and dragonmarks, the DC is based on charisma.. The lich form damage uses your charisma modifier to determine saves from spells and abilities gained through enhancements or dragonmarks. I just cannot bring myself to sacrifice the other stats to enhance my charisma. Maybe when i reach a 36 pt build i can add more. But until then, this puppy is staying at 10 charisma.
******

Let me know what you think.

Entelech
10-25-2010, 11:56 PM
Well...

Before U7, the Pale Master / Dark Monk builds were unfashionable, since it was impossible to have both Touch of Death and the Undead forms at the same time (12 Wiz +9 Monk = 21) and Touch of Death was so broken that no optimizer in the world would fail to exploit it.

Apparently that problem has been resolved. Yay Devs.


From what I'm seeing here, you might have a decent flavor build here. The DPS is not going to be jaw-dropping, but it will probably be reasonable, if situational. You'll probably end up relying heavily on standing in your own fire-walls for damage output.

I would suggest you work up a detailed build in the Character Planner before moving forward, since the devil is going to be in the details here. Stat points and feats are going to be exceedingly tight, and my most serious fear is that you're not going to have enough hitpoints to cushion you against the "slow but steady" nature of your self-healing.

Also, the lack of 32-point builds for Drow is going to be problematic for such a multiple-attribute-dependent build. Especially where that Con penalty is going to make it fiendishly challenging to get over 250 hitpoints by level 20.

karikari969
10-26-2010, 12:52 AM
my most serious fear is that you're not going to have enough hitpoints to cushion you against the "slow but steady" nature of your self-healing..

My health as of right now as a drow with a 20 con, 12+6+2 tome is a 394. I lack a greater false life item. They are supremely expensive and im waiting for one to drop.

About the "slow but steady" healing. While in lich form, i also use the AoE Negative Energy Burst. Which not only damages nearby foes. But heals me as well. I have a torq and a GS concordant opposition. Mana is not a problem for this build. You could say that i WANT to get hit. but this build isnt gimp like that. I still like to get hit for mana but not too often. Hence the blur and shadow ninja blur. :)



Also, the lack of 32-point builds for Drow is going to be problematic for such a multiple-attribute-dependent build. Especially where that Con penalty is going to make it fiendishly challenging to get over 250 hitpoints by level 20.

This build really isnt an attribute required build. All you need is the int to cast 7th level spells. 17 int isnt hard to get, you can start with 11 int and get a +6 item and have that much intellegence. I would say this build is featstarved for sure. But not attribute starved.

voodoogroves
10-26-2010, 01:02 AM
Are you running a 14 / 6 split?

That's rough - not for the spellcasting, passive healing and now that the form is a toggle all the goodies that come with it. It's rough for missing out on GTWF.

Love the survivability though. Torc and CO paired w/ Death Aura and neg. burst is definitely nifty. I personally can't justify the outlay of attributes, gear, etc. to make a pseudo DPS build and miss GTWF.


I've stared at this quite a bit; I'm glad you found a mix you're happy with. I've run a few up to the low and mid teens as dry-runs for a few TR options I'm looking at and really not liked how they worked out. Soloing was no problem, but the lagging in both DPS and casting was really troublesome for me.

Entelech
10-26-2010, 04:01 AM
I'm well aware of how the Pale Master self-healing works. I have a 12 Wizard / 6 Fighter / 2 Rogue Intimitank that I am currently gearing up.

His hitpoints are at 520 in Lich form, 540 if he goes into stance.

The Lich form's Temporary Hitpoints Guard effect is also pretty awesome.

In situations where there are heavy hitters, or lots of small hitters, your primary DPS and healing techniques will tend to suck aggro onto you. Unless you actually have a "healer" ready to work with you (or have multiple Pale Master battlemages all running Death Auras) you will still run into trouble that a conventionally-healed character could survive.

Mind you, he can solo incredibly well, even without a Torc or Abbot Gear (I'm working on it...) But there are definitely times I am glad I have more than 500 hit points.

Drow...especially Drow with all d4 and d6 Hit Dice...tend to have issues with their hit point totals, and I am glad you're paying attention to the problem.

Do you have your epic robe from the Mabar event yet? I am looking forward to finishing mine.

gurgar78
10-26-2010, 08:51 AM
I'm currently levelling a half-elf 12/8 split that I've been having a lot of fun with. He melees considerably better than I thought he would. I've been trying to hoard DP clickies, but haven't needed them much. I expect that to change in the near future. Next plan, now that I have firewall is monk to level 8. Unfortunately, this class split requires that you take all 8 monk levels prior to level 18 in order to pick up GTWF at 18. Otherwise, I'd make a run straight for Lich. Rogue dilletante for the extra d6 sneak attack is neat. If they ever add enhancements that increase it, that will also be nice.

As the OP said, you only need enough int to cast, in my case, 6th level spells. I actually figured out too late that I should have dumped int and left it at 8. Since I'm required to take Wiz Int I and II for PM, a +6 item is all I would have needed. Ah well. I'll have 20 more SPs, I guess. Stats aren't that bad. Build him like a str/con monk. I'm running with a 15 base dex. I'll have to drop the cash for a +2 dex tome before level 12, if I don't pull one with one of my higher toons first. Up to 29 str at level 9 with Fire Stance/Bulls/Rage.

To the OP, regarding stacking, blur does not stack with displacement. Wraith incorporeality does not stack with Shadow Fade.

Shadow Fade DOES stack with displacement for a 62.5% chance for attacks to outright miss. Add in cloud concealment for an additional 20% and you're looking at a 70% miss rate, 40% of which will function even on bosses.

I generally get a lot of interested queries when I run in groups and people see what the toon can do. Melee toons absolutely LOVE me because I am one wizard that never forgets to haste. I've had a couple tells after groups asking me how I built and expressing interest in starting a similar toon.

Niab
10-26-2010, 04:18 PM
A good fire shield would increase dps also

karikari969
10-27-2010, 01:05 AM
All the buffs of a wizard is what makes this build competent. The ability to cast haste and stand in your own empowered and maximized firewalls is nothing but beneficial for the part. Not only are you taking damage which have a chance to restore you mana, but you are also DOING considerable ammounts of damage. Personally i do not use firewall. Unless you have a devoted intimitank, the wizard with firewall is generally the one with aggro. With stoneskin buff, and blur + ninja blur i am a not to shabby tank that can rely on himself for healing. I have done many groups without healers because im the one with the aggro. I'm the one they are focusing on. The only damage my teamates take a glancing attacks, which can easily be healed by thier own CSW pots.

I'm trying to post a build for this.... like... an actual character build. But i lack the patience. I'm sorry folks. I saved it and will work on it sometime this week.

karikari969
10-27-2010, 01:07 AM
Are you running a 14 / 6 split?
.

as said in the title. It is a 13/6/1 split. The 1 fighter for intimidation, and the Fighter haste I enhancement.

Entelech
10-27-2010, 02:57 AM
A good fire shield would increase dps also

Only if you're getting hit.



There are four basic strategies you can adopt, as far as aggro goes:

(1) Get hit a lot. That is, be a tank. Deliberately suck as much aggro onto yourself as possible.

(2) Avoid getting hit. Most casters and "Melee DPS" try to do this.

(3) Play the middle ground. Sometimes take aggro, sometimes dump it, depending on the needs of the moment. Difficult to build for and even more difficult to play well.

(4) "Aggro? What's that? I like pie..." That is, no strategy at all: the strategy of fail.


I'm curious which number we're shooting for, here. Fire Shield works for (1) and (3).

Entelech
10-27-2010, 03:05 AM
My own Pale Master Intimitank mage build:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.0 BETA
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Mordite
Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(6 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 12 Wizard)
Hit Points: 364
Spell Points: 856
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 15
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 14 19
Dexterity 8 10
Constitution 16 22
Intelligence 16 22
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 14 16

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 3 23
Bluff 2 3
Concentration 5 28
Diplomacy 2 3
Disable Device 7 10
Haggle 6 7
Heal -1 0
Hide -1 0
Intimidate 6 33
Jump 6 25
Listen -1 0
Move Silently -1 0
Open Lock 3 4
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 3 6
Search 7 10
Spot 3 4
Swim 6 8
Tumble 3 14
Use Magic Device 6 26

{\b {\ul Notable Equipment }} \par Minos Legens \par Health Belt \par Fanion \par Ring of Intimidation \par Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II \par Death's Touch (Upgraded) \par Fanged Gloves \par Clever Ring \par Voice of the Master \par Bracers of the Demon's Consort \par Mantle of the Worldshaper \par Circle of Hatred \par Light and Darkness (Upgraded) \par \par Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Resilience
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Augment Summoning


Level 5 (Wizard)


Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Wizard)


Level 8 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Necromancy


Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 10 (Wizard)


Level 11 (Wizard)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Sentinel
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 13 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy


Level 14 (Wizard)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Wizard)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Shroud of the Lich
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master I
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master II
Enhancement: Summon Blackbone Archer
Enhancement: Summon Skeleton Archer
Enhancement: Summon Blackbone Knight
Enhancement: Summon Skeletal Knight
Enhancement: Summon Blackbone Mage
Enhancement: Summon Skeletal Mage
Enhancement: Shroud of the Wraith

dogpig00
10-27-2010, 01:57 PM
how much can you get healed by your death aura in a 12wiz/6/2 intimi build?

Remember that if you intimi with a shield on and in undead form, your death aura is the only source of healing.

gurgar78
10-27-2010, 02:36 PM
how much can you get healed by your death aura in a 12wiz/6/2 intimi build?

Remember that if you intimi with a shield on and in undead form, your death aura is the only source of healing.

Negative energy burst is also available as well as a cleric with harm/inflict spells loaded.

death aura does 1d4 + 12 at level 12 wizard. Add 35% for PMII and 50% for Superior Nihil and you get 24 - 30 every 2 seconds with the potential to crit on a per tick basis. Neg Energy Burst is 6d8 at level 12. 35% + 50% + Max + Empower means normal hits for 170'ish and crits for about double.

This assumes you keep up on your Nihil/Void lore items as an intimitank, which may or may not be the case.

12/6/2 wiz/mon/fig might be a better split for intimitanking. Go dark monk and get the 25% incorporeal miss-chance from NinjaSpy while retaining lich form con bonus.

Entelech
10-27-2010, 02:40 PM
(1) I am working on the Epic Robe of Shadows, just need motes and 1 more dragon scale. That'll significantly enhance healing capacity.

(2) Lich form has a chance to give 30 temporary hit points every time every time you're hit.

(3) DR is your friend.

(4) The character has UMD sufficient to cast Harm Scrolls.

(5) Negative Energy Burst also heals you.

I get about 16-40 per tick off the Death Aura, and the Death Burst heals for about 110 on a typical cast. That's not enough if you're taking tremendous heat, but that's why I've got five ways to keep myself up instead of one or two.

Between that and the huge pile of immunities, DR, and resists, he does pretty well.

Entelech
10-27-2010, 02:50 PM
12/6/2 wiz/mon/fig might be a better split for intimitanking. Go dark monk and get the 25% incorporeal miss-chance from NinjaSpy while retaining lich form con bonus.

Interesting thought.

No UMD though, and keeping intimidate capped will be expensive, given that only two of your levels have it as in-class.

I chose to go Stalwart Defender and use the Shield Blocking DR instead.

karikari969
10-28-2010, 10:39 AM
You guys are right. I mean. I'm thinking about doing a LR +1 and switch out 1 level of fighter for 1 level of rogue. Not only will i get UMD, but i will also still get the Rogue Haste Boost I.

I like what you guys are doing trying to make it an intimitank build, but unless you have a dedicated intimitank in your party, doesnt matter what anyone else does, if you have a empowered/maximize firewall on the ground your going to have aggro.


My favorite part of being undead is not only me being able to heal myself, but the fact that i can use a GS helm and not minos helm. I have 100% crit resistance while undead. this is perfect, with stoneskin on i get hit for 4's... maybe 10's sometimes. I spam my necro skills that sacrifice health, i have a superior pot VI and a greater void lore, even though my damage is only +35% and crit is +6 for only being pale master II, i have a 85% increase in damage and 15% chance to crit, which is not too bad for spells that use a infinite resource (health).


People see me join thier party and they are like, ***... lol. The moment i enter the party i let the healer know not to heal me, or if they are, do not use heal, equip harm.
The only thing i wish they would do is allow us to use necrotic touch to heal ourselves, we were so much more self sufficient. :)

Varr
10-28-2010, 11:25 AM
Derail destroyed

karikari969
10-28-2010, 01:07 PM
I'm curious about sacrificing so much casting capability for almost no increase in melee dps and defensive capability comparing this build to a melee capable 18/2 drow pale master/monk.

You give up so much on the caster side for......

30 hp?
Cycling 1 min ninja blur instead of constant 3 min displacements (non boss)
Is it 1-8 instead of 1-6 per hit at six monk?
2 dc for stunning fist
What else?

I love battle casters.......unless I'm missing alot, it seems to me that you sacrifice real casting capability in both cc and dps (except buffing) for nominal melee gains.

"Sacrificing so much casting ability"... This made me laugh so hard. I'm sorry. OHHHH NO!!! I CANT CAST 8th or 9th level spells? HOW THE **** WILL I SURVIVE?.... Well i dont know jimbo, you've done it for 3 past lives now.... >< :P

Lets be honest with ourselves. Are those 8th and 9th level spells really needed? Even at lv 20, the only spells i really see wizzys use are firewall... Maybe a polar ray if they are fighting a fire ele. Unless you have robes of the pheonix or wahtever from mindsunder, there really isnt a way to buff up your 8th and 9th level spells unless you get that belt from amrath. Like seriously, lets be honest. Wouldnt it be nice for the wizzy to do decent melee dps when he is out of SP? or use Melee DPS to save SP for the fights where he will NEED it most desperately?

I know... i know... .with the new archmagi they shouldnt run out of SP as fast... but pale master has more beneficial effects to me. Now that the lich form/wraith form is permanent until rest/disabled.

And who said anything about stunning fist? I use stunning blow. Im STR based, not WIS. lol. I dont need the AC.

Entelech
10-28-2010, 02:12 PM
Oh...I disagree...with both sides of this one.

I have both an 18 / 2 Pale Master / Rogue and my 12 / 6 / 2 intimitank.

You definitely feel the hit in casting power, and you definitely notice the uptick in melee DPS and general survivability.

The two builds play very differently.

With the 18/2, it pretty much does not pay to swing his weapons. Finger of Death, Meteor Swarm, and yes, Firewall are so vastly more effective than melee that it makes sense to strip away any last vestige of melee combat capability and go pure caster with Rogue for evasion and skills. If you need to beat someone to death, summon a Hezrou to do it.

With the intimitank, his offensive magic is useless against anything with SR. His magic is supplemental DPS, and augments his melee capabilities.

It is not a question of one being effective and the other not. It's a question of comparing apples to oranges. They're totally different in their purpose, goals, and methods. And each can do things the other cannot.

gurgar78
10-28-2010, 02:13 PM
An 18/2 split has two less damage die steps and is incapable of getting GTWF when compared to my 12/8 split. That's a decent amount of melee ability lost. In addition, while my Displace will only last 2 minutes instead of 3, it will stack with the 25% incorporeal bonus from Shadow Fade. This enables me to retain the lich form bonus damage to unarmed attacks as well as the boost to con and the periodic lifeshield effect while still remaining difficult for enemies to hit.

Still I would have had a stronger character by staying pure in either wizard or monk. I understood that when I made the toon. Believe it or not, not everyone is out to min/max every toon. The character will be more than capable of holding its own well enough to get to 20 and is incredibly fun to play.

Entelech
10-28-2010, 02:20 PM
I also have an 18 / 2 Favored Soul Monk. I do not have anything with 6 monk levels.

I can tell you that, at 20, the two levels of Monk really do not bring enough to the table to make melee worth it.

6 Monk and 1 Fighter might. I look forward to hearing how this build plays.

karikari969
10-28-2010, 03:48 PM
Oh...I disagree...with both sides of this one.

I have both an 18 / 2 Pale Master / Rogue and my 12 / 6 / 2 intimitank.

You definitely feel the hit in casting power, and you definitely notice the uptick in melee DPS and general survivability.

The two builds play very differently.

With the 18/2, it pretty much does not pay to swing his weapons. Finger of Death, Meteor Swarm, and yes, Firewall are so vastly more effective than melee that it makes sense to strip away any last vestige of melee combat capability and go pure caster with Rogue for evasion and skills. With the intimitank, his offensive magic is useless against anything with SR. His magic is supplemental DPS, and augments his melee capabilities.

It is not a question of one being effective and the other not. It's a question of comparing apples to oranges. They're totally different in their purpose, goals, and methods. And each can do things the other cannot.

At lv 13 wizard. with 34 int, +1 necromancy scepter, and lich form, i hardly ever fail FoD. And what do you mean with my magic ill fail anything with SR? Thats only against spells that affect them, like slow and hold person. I dont use those spells, i use Mass Hold and i have spell pen + greater spell pen and i have Enchantment + greater enchantment AS WELL as necromancy + greater necromancy. Where are people getting the idea that you have to be a high level wizard to have HIGH DC's/ Spell pen. It goes by your modifier. which is why a lv 17 rogue/ 3 wizard with 36 int can still use hold person spell and still hold them.

If you need to beat someone to death, summon a Hezrou to do it.

Just letting you know, i laughed my ass off at this. Summons do nothing but get in the way in my opinion. The only summon i would even consider is the air elemental, for the knockdown effect. thas it.

and my magic does not supplement DPS, and niether does it augument my capabilities. What? do you think i use tensers and haste? lol no. I only put on buffs that a normal wizard would. Stoneskin. Blur. Haste. Greater heroism. Its just like a normal ****ing wizard, but with average melee capabilities and self healing. There is nothing wrong with that. I would rather have some melee capability and no mana... than no mana and no melee capability.

karikari969
10-28-2010, 03:50 PM
I also have an 18 / 2 Favored Soul Monk. I do not have anything with 6 monk levels.

I can tell you that, at 20, the two levels of Monk really do not bring enough to the table to make melee worth it.

6 Monk and 1 Fighter might. I look forward to hearing how this build plays.


What are you talking about? My build IS a 13 wizard/ 6 monk/ 1 fighter, and im seriously debating switching fighter to rogue for UMD and i can still have a +15% additional attack speed.

oh i get it. NEvermind. Sorry for the confusion. Yeah, i can tell you right now, this build is great for epics. I have done EVON 1-6 for the first time and everyone was absolutely impressed with my build. since then i have joined a guild and have been showered with gifts.... :)

karikari969
10-28-2010, 03:51 PM
The only damage spell i carry is Firewall/ Frost Lance/ Magic Missle/ Chain Missles. Thats it. The only damage spells i carry. Everything else is debuff/buff/ Tin Can healz.

Xaearth
10-28-2010, 04:02 PM
"I have traveled many miles and now have come disguised as a pimp to help you."

That's the only thing I could think about when I read the thread title. :o
Anyone got a leopard-print outfit? :D

karikari969
10-28-2010, 04:06 PM
"I have traveled many miles and now have come disguised as a pimp to help you."

That's the only thing I could think about when I read the thread title. :o
Anyone got a leopard-print outfit? :D

LOL. I ****ing died when i read that. hahahahahahaha. dude, im so putting that as my quote of the day in my bio :P

gurgar78
10-28-2010, 04:07 PM
At lv 13 wizard. with 34 int, +1 necromancy scepter, and lich form, i hardly ever fail FoD. And what do you mean with my magic ill fail anything with SR? Thats only against spells that affect them, like slow and hold person. I dont use those spells, i use Mass Hold and i have spell pen + greater spell pen and i have Enchantment + greater enchantment AS WELL as necromancy + greater necromancy. Where are people getting the idea that you have to be a high level wizard to have HIGH DC's/ Spell pen. It goes by your modifier. which is why a lv 17 rogue/ 3 wizard with 36 int can still use hold person spell and still hold them.

If you need to beat someone to death, summon a Hezrou to do it.

Just letting you know, i laughed my ass off at this. Summons do nothing but get in the way in my opinion. The only summon i would even consider is the air elemental, for the knockdown effect. thas it.

and my magic does not supplement DPS, and niether does it augument my capabilities. What? do you think i use tensers and haste? lol no. I only put on buffs that a normal wizard would. Stoneskin. Blur. Haste. Greater heroism. Its just like a normal ****ing wizard, but with average melee capabilities and self healing. There is nothing wrong with that. I would rather have some melee capability and no mana... than no mana and no melee capability.

While DCs are unaffected by levels, Spell Pen absolutely is. Mass Hold must roll a spell resistance check to affect its target as well, the same as any lower level hold. Any spell which does not deal direct damage (And even a few of them which do) is affected by Spell Resistance.

Spell Pen is Caster Level + modifiers measured against the spell resistance stat. A 17/3 Wiz/Rogue will have a 15% lesser chance to land any non-DD spell when compared against a 20 Wiz with all other things being equal.

Entelech
10-29-2010, 01:26 AM
Karikari,

Not every monster has Spell Resistance. For those that do, if you don't have a snotload of Past Lives, you're not landing anything on them reliably with 13 levels of Wizard.

Do The Tide Turns on Epic, and try Mass Hold, you'll notice it works fine on the non-Drow, and the Drow laugh in your face. That's the racial Spell Resistance (which is nerfed into irrelevance for Player Characters.)

Amrath is another area rich in high-SR creatures.

And as far as summons go, the Augment Summoning feat makes a BIG difference. Mind you, anything less than Summon Monster 8 is pretty sad at level 20, but a Hezrou or Ghaele can do some useful work.

Varr
10-29-2010, 07:38 AM
I must have been grumpy this day.

Entelech
10-31-2010, 01:09 AM
I like what you guys are doing trying to make it an intimitank build, but unless you have a dedicated intimitank in your party, doesnt matter what anyone else does, if you have a empowered/maximize firewall on the ground your going to have aggro.

I'm not trying to point you at an intimitank build, just posting my own for you to look at and compare notes on. You're going for melee DPS. I get that. You might want Diplomacy instead, even.

But I will tell you this much:

When you've got a dedicated Intimitank in the party, and HE is the one with the Maximized Firewall, it pretty much does not matter what anyone else does, as far as aggro.

sumnz
11-01-2010, 05:24 PM
Hope this isnt considered thread necromancy (get it?) but I recently LRd my human wizard 16 into this kind of build. Stopped playing him long ago because of how sad I was how inferior he was compared to warforged. Never played a monk before so I have a few questions.

What kind of weapons should I be searching for? Since I cant just make greensteel handwraps I guess Ill need random drops. Due to time consraints and not being 20th I was only able to get the mabar ones up to 12th level. Is this still good for undead bashing?

I did upgrade the cloak of night to 16th, so got alot from that. Cant think of another damaging necromancy spell past 6th so should there be another robe I need?

Why concentrate so much on twf? I understand meelee is the basic damage but what does it do for you as a monk I thought you dident get minuses to hit with fists. Wouldnt I be better off with other feats?

And for my first greensteel whats more beneficial off the bat, concordent oppisition, +45hp earthgrab guard, or + 150 spellpoint items? I have enough materials to make any one to start from my other characters but only one.

Talltale-Storyteller
11-01-2010, 10:10 PM
Wow! I am strongly considering rolling this for my next PD toon. Are you planning on posting the details of the build?

karikari969
11-02-2010, 12:14 AM
Wow! I am strongly considering rolling this for my next PD toon. Are you planning on posting the details of the build?

Yes sir, working on it as we speak. Should be up by 2 am central time. :), Have a fun time with it, ill post it under "Wizard' forum, the Title will be this.


"Defiance - 13 wizard/6 monk/ 1 fighter."
I decided to rename the build, since I have yet to die. :P

Entelech
11-02-2010, 12:18 AM
I did upgrade the cloak of night to 16th, so got alot from that. Cant think of another damaging necromancy spell past 6th so should there be another robe I need?


I realize it's a bit late to implement this, but taking the Mabar Robe to level 20 gets you Boon of Undeath on it.

Boon of Undeath is AMAZING. And without the Mabar Festival, the Shroud of the Abbott is the only other robe that has it.

gurgar78
11-02-2010, 02:02 PM
Hope this isnt considered thread necromancy (get it?) but I recently LRd my human wizard 16 into this kind of build. Stopped playing him long ago because of how sad I was how inferior he was compared to warforged. Never played a monk before so I have a few questions.

What kind of weapons should I be searching for? Since I cant just make greensteel handwraps I guess Ill need random drops. Due to time consraints and not being 20th I was only able to get the mabar ones up to 12th level. Is this still good for undead bashing?

I did upgrade the cloak of night to 16th, so got alot from that. Cant think of another damaging necromancy spell past 6th so should there be another robe I need?

Why concentrate so much on twf? I understand meelee is the basic damage but what does it do for you as a monk I thought you dident get minuses to hit with fists. Wouldnt I be better off with other feats?

And for my first greensteel whats more beneficial off the bat, concordent oppisition, +45hp earthgrab guard, or + 150 spellpoint items? I have enough materials to make any one to start from my other characters but only one.

TWF feats greatly increase your chance of getting an offhand proc. Currently, dual wielding weapons without any TWF yields a 20% chance, per attack, for your offhand to also swing to-hit. TWF increases that to 40, ITWF to 60 and GTWF to 80. Those are significant boosts in your chances for an off-hand proc and, thus, your DPS.

Monks actually derive greater benefit from TWF than other classes because their offhand attacks do not suffer an attack penalty, nor a strength penalty.

cyadra
11-02-2010, 03:37 PM
TWF feats greatly increase your chance of getting an offhand proc. Currently, dual wielding weapons without any TWF yields a 20% chance, per attack, for your offhand to also swing to-hit. TWF increases that to 40, ITWF to 60 and GTWF to 80. Those are significant boosts in your chances for an off-hand proc and, thus, your DPS.

Monks actually derive greater benefit from TWF than other classes because their offhand attacks do not suffer an attack penalty, nor a strength penalty.

You ever going to post your build oh mighty one of the dark ninja/pale master arts.

:rolleyes:

karikari969
11-02-2010, 06:49 PM
You ever going to post your build oh mighty one of the dark ninja/pale master arts.

:rolleyes:


Yes. Its posted as "defiance"

I switched it from a handwraps build to a TWF Shortsword Drow.

But im gonna TR it into a Halfling. so i can get an increase to dex without sacrificing con.

karikari969
11-02-2010, 06:53 PM
THE BUILD HAS BEEN SWITCHED TO "DEFIANCE"

AND IS FOUND HERE!-------->http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=283595


PLEASE GO THERE IF YOU WANT TO DISCUSS MY BUILD! THANK YOU! :)