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View Full Version : fixing ranged dps AND preventing kiting with high dps



bigolbear
10-23-2010, 11:14 AM
This is a very simple suggestion that i think solves the 2 major issues with ranged combat.

The way i see it the 2 main issues are:
1. ranged dps is not comparable with mele dps, however this is acceptable as the advantage of ranged combat is that it does not place you in danger. That being said ranged dps is still too low to be viable in most dungeon type environments.
2. kiting ranged people often disrupt groups and cause issues(unless kiting is done for cc), and further more if ranged damage was high enough to be comparable to mele then 'the kiting ranger' would actualy be the optimal playstyle, this has been seen in other games such as never winter nights.

my suggestion is simple - make many shot an always active abilitiy that only works when the archer is stood still.
This would mean that ranged builds will have decent dps in many situations like raid boss fights and it makes the archer make a tough decision between standing his ground and laying down good damage or breaking rank and kiting and thus loosing damage or switching to mele and either fighting or blocking while the rest of the group moves up to help.

In addition id also suggest rapid reload working much faster when a crossbow user is stationary, to keep repeater builds comparable.

Over all i think this change would increase ranged dps which is something many people have asked for without enabling the run and gun win button that many others fear.

All comments welcome, id especialy like to hear from any one that has an arcane archer or a repeater build.

M0rfeo
10-23-2010, 11:17 AM
/signed

shores11
10-23-2010, 11:20 AM
/not signed

Quarterling
10-23-2010, 12:11 PM
/not signed

This.

If ranged combat was as viable as melee combat DPS-wise, why be melee?

The point of ranged combat is to not do damage, but to be farther away from enemies so you would have a smaller chance of being attacked.

voodoogroves
10-23-2010, 12:30 PM
I'm ok with the squishy-ranged-kite balance. It is very similar to Rogues.

Want to do hyper damage? You may pull aggro and have to deal with it. If you're a glass cannon I don't think we need to build an out so that the bad guys ignore you.

cpito
10-23-2010, 12:31 PM
/not signed

Please stop propagating the myth that the only way for an archer to be useful in a group is to do as much dps as the melee.

Dark_Uncle72
10-23-2010, 12:41 PM
/not signed

Please stop propagating the myth that the only way for an archer to be useful in a group is to do as much dps as the melee.

Get em Peach..!!:D

I say again as I did before ... a ranger...a GOOD ranger should and does know their role in a group. That being said ...../not signed.

h4x0r1f1c
10-23-2010, 01:10 PM
/not signed

Please stop propagating the myth that the only way for an archer to be useful in a group is to do as much dps as the melee.

This.

hermespan
10-23-2010, 01:10 PM
This is a very simple suggestion that i think solves the 2 major issues with ranged combat.

The way i see it the 2 main issues are:
1. ranged dps is not comparable with mele dps, however this is acceptable as the advantage of ranged combat is that it does not place you in danger. That being said ranged dps is still too low to be viable in most dungeon type environments.
2. kiting ranged people often disrupt groups and cause issues(unless kiting is done for cc), and further more if ranged damage was high enough to be comparable to mele then 'the kiting ranger' would actualy be the optimal playstyle, this has been seen in other games such as never winter nights.

my suggestion is simple - make many shot an always active abilitiy that only works when the archer is stood still.
This would mean that ranged builds will have decent dps in many situations like raid boss fights and it makes the archer make a tough decision between standing his ground and laying down good damage or breaking rank and kiting and thus loosing damage or switching to mele and either fighting or blocking while the rest of the group moves up to help.

In addition id also suggest rapid reload working much faster when a crossbow user is stationary, to keep repeater builds comparable.

Over all i think this change would increase ranged dps which is something many people have asked for without enabling the run and gun win button that many others fear.

All comments welcome, id especialy like to hear from any one that has an arcane archer or a repeater build.
I have an AA near cap.

Kiting is useful in basically one situation. If there's a bunch of mobs that all aggro together, and would kill the party in a straight fight, a ranger can aggro them and kite them while the party picks off the mobs one by one. I call this speed tanking. A rogue or monk can do it too, anyone who is faster. Manyshot isn't needed for this.

A ranger opening up with manyshot on a boss then kiting it is just irritating. Let him die. If he's managing to stay alive, just pike and go make some soup or something. He's built up so much hate you'll never pull it off of him as long as he keeps running. If someone can dance him DO IT.

Healers should simply not heal and let him die. Eventually they'll figure out that it's a bad idea to do this. Add him to the DNG list and call it a day.

KillEveryone
10-23-2010, 01:50 PM
/not signed

People would be able to turn up the graphics draw distance and pick off every mob before they have a chance to know they were there, probably before they even get within range to be able to kill them. I can FOD beholders in much the same fasion, I'm just outside of their sight but if it fails then they have a chance to kill me. I'm still in danger. If I had a AA Ranger, I could kill everything without them being able to see me since the bow will range further than FOD.

It is amazing how far away you can see critters with graphics draw distance maxed.

Granted, there are mobs around corners which you could deal with melee, but anything that is distance which people have really good graphics capabilities would have an advantage just because they have a really good machine.

What I would like to see is players play a ranged character well AND not be squishy with all the aggro they can get.

sirgog
10-23-2010, 02:03 PM
/signed with a caveat:

Permanent 4-arrow Manyshot may be too strong. A stance, however, that grants 2 or 3 arrow Manyshot (playtesting would determine which) and a 50% movement speed debuff would be better, IMO. It should have a short but noticeable cooldown (of the order of 12-20 seconds), to prevent kiting.

It's too slow to ever kite with, deals enough damage to justify a party slot, and gives you some chance to escape persistent AoE spells like enemy Firewalls.

Scraap
10-23-2010, 02:07 PM
Dirty little not-so-secret: Mobs out of alignment drop your AOE dps from Improved Precise Shot. You're already staying in one place in that scenario, or at least moving as little as possible (well, unless you like all of creation chasing after you instead of being re-acquired by the rest of the party).

Where it falls apart is single-target, and only single-target. Not real sure dramatic ROF increases is the way to go there, even if the devs hadn't already commented that there's issues with too many arrows/bolts being spawned all at once.

Now if IPS lowered your damage by a percentage for passing through mobs so they could increase the single-target, that might make a bit more sense.