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View Full Version : RAGE, just want to AVOID it



qes
10-22-2010, 07:27 AM
I would like to see a means of stopping rage from happening! I have no desire or intent for this to turn into a argument about minus's and plus's of rage.
I just want means of stopping rage from happening to my toons!

It was really nice when rage was limited to the one that cast it used it, to bad that issue was fixed!

Hmm maybe the madstone rage rods can be adjusted to cancel out rage on self for normal rage being cast in party?

SiliconShadow
10-22-2010, 07:32 AM
The only reason to cancel rage is if your a turtle, and turtle stances disable rage, otherwise it is a bad use of the spell as it should only be used when you are on the offensive.

Zombiekenny
10-22-2010, 07:34 AM
What is your AC?

qes
10-22-2010, 07:35 AM
I honestly want to see means of getting rage canceled or even better stopped!

Lorz
10-22-2010, 07:37 AM
Why?

I'm sorry your gonna have to explain your position on this one.
Why would you not want a rage? And where is this happening to you? So we can understand why this is an issue.

I have just about every class of toon...and cannot think of a reason you wouldn't want rage.

Zombiekenny
10-22-2010, 07:38 AM
I don't, cause most people benefit whether they want to admit it or not, or realize it or not.

FlyingTurtle
10-22-2010, 07:42 AM
Just stand outside the buffing circle when rage hits. It's a short duration spell so it should hit pretty late in the cycle. You're clearly not interested in melee, so you won't be interested in the last Haste either, just use your expeditious clickies.

As for Rage being useful...

Are you below level 10?
- Yes: put down that stupid wand and start doing some melee damage!
- No: AC doesn't matter.

Sinni
10-22-2010, 07:43 AM
i'd rather have means to stop barkskin and camouflage (and stoneskin on my pure fvs)

Jiipster
10-22-2010, 07:43 AM
Turn on Defensive Fighting.

Crann
10-22-2010, 07:46 AM
Turn on Defensivé Fighting.

That cancels rage?

The only time you should care is if you are on the bubble of having meaningfull AC...and then you should still value the additional Strength and Con.

voodoogroves
10-22-2010, 07:49 AM
I accidentally snagged an AC build when I cast it doing a Chronosphere last night. It wasn't a big deal as being our first time through we were seriously over level.

I can see it being something important for hero-raids, like VoD, where that extra AC might matter. If that extra AC does matter, the caster needs to step back and get everyone but the hero.

Milamber69
10-22-2010, 07:51 AM
I honestly want to see means of getting rage canceled or even better stopped!

Good luck!

painindaguild
10-22-2010, 07:53 AM
if -2 ac is critical u shouldnt worry about ur ac anyways. get better gear and tr then come again whine about one the best spells currrently in game.

Jiipster
10-22-2010, 07:57 AM
That cancels rage?

Since U7, yes. At least the Rage-spell - Madstone remains. Haven't tried it with Barb Rage.

qes
10-22-2010, 11:19 AM
style of wanting to play toon, i can certainly continue on with other reasons why i do not want rage as well as input from others that do not want rage as well.
I understand the thought behind the values that some feel are of use for certain things from rage, however just a simple and heartfelt request of being able to have a means of being to not get rage or being able to cancel it would be great.

As I have said before I do not want to get this into a argument for or against rage, simply put a simple request of being able to cancel rage is what i want as well as numerous others desire.

this forum area is for request for enhancements not otherwise.

markusthelion
10-22-2010, 11:29 AM
style of wanting to play toon, i can certainly continue on with other reasons why i do not want rage as well as input from others that do not want rage as well.
I understand the thought behind the values that some feel are of use for certain things from rage, however just a simple and heartfelt request of being able to have a means of being to not get rage or being able to cancel it would be great.

As I have said before I do not want to get this into a argument for or against rage, simply put a simple request of being able to cancel rage is what i want as well as numerous others desire.

this forum area is for request for enhancements not otherwise.

um....then give us reasons why you don't want it. Don't like an extra str/con boost, - to ac? Are you a role player that promises never to get mad (raged)? I don't know a single toon that doesn't like rage, and I can tell you people were severly ticked off when it "bugged" to a single target spell.

Tapsimanxer
10-22-2010, 11:31 AM
defensive fighting does cancel rage. nice to know. trying it out, was the first time i put defensive fighting on my hot bar XD

Crann
10-22-2010, 11:33 AM
um....then give us reasons why you don't want it. Don't like an extra str/con boost, - to ac? Are you a role player that promises never to get mad (raged)? I don't know a single toon that doesn't like rage, and I can tell you people were severly ticked off when it "bugged" to a single target spell.

He just told us...he doesn't wanna see the red spots.

Although he appearantly missed the post before his, where it was confirmed that entering defensive stance eliminates the Rage spell.

elraido
10-22-2010, 11:35 AM
if -2 ac is critical u shouldnt worry about ur ac anyways. get better gear and tr then come again whine about one the best spells currrently in game.

If you have ever had an ac build, you realize every bit of AC means everything. That -2 almost takes out a chattering rings ac....one of the most difficult items to get in the game. An AC build needs a every little bit of AC they can get...

TimethiefXVI
10-22-2010, 11:36 AM
style of wanting to play toon, i can certainly continue on with other reasons why i do not want rage as well as input from others that do not want rage as well.
I understand the thought behind the values that some feel are of use for certain things from rage, however just a simple and heartfelt request of being able to have a means of being to not get rage or being able to cancel it would be great.

As I have said before I do not want to get this into a argument for or against rage, simply put a simple request of being able to cancel rage is what i want as well as numerous others desire.

this forum area is for request for enhancements not otherwise.

but its also for working out brought up ideas and getting a first impression.
for your issue on rage: i cant see the point why anyone would not like to have rage exept high ac tanks
for your issue on dismissing buffs: i can see some need here (SR on a pale master lich blocks harming etc).

having the ability to dismiss a buff casted on you /signed
ranting about rage, go and punch some pillow till rage stops XD (honestly it was a nightmare to rebuss rage on every one as a single target and im rally happy it got fixed)

Tsuarok
10-22-2010, 11:38 AM
/signed

And in addition, I think your should be able to cancel any buff you want. Individually. Edit: Timethief beat me to it.

But I just hopped on my bard and can verify that Defensive Stance does indeed cancel rage.

justagame
10-22-2010, 11:42 AM
/signed

And in addition, I think your should be able to cancel any buff you want. Individually.

But I just hopped on my bard and can verify that Defensive Stance does indeed cancel rage.

Agreed on the own-buff cancelling thing. Ideally, in the case of mass camouflage, I'd like to take it one step further and be able to exile the caster to a plane with nothing but epic-warded beholders and air elementals.

AyumiAmakusa
10-22-2010, 11:43 AM
Coming Soon™

sephiroth1084
10-22-2010, 11:45 AM
My feeling on Rage itself aside, I agree that we need the ability to dismiss unwanted buffs on ourselves.

The awkward implementation of the new Warchanter song is a pretty good indication of how badly we need this sort of UI. Some buffs are unwanted, for whatever reason, and player should be able to turn them off if they choose to, and without jumping through hoops.

Examples of reasons to turn off buffs:
-That 2 AC actually does matter, rare as that may be.
-That 10% fortification penalty is more dangerous than the additional DPS (such as in ToD 3 where an untimely crit can make for a very difficult time for the whole party)
-That 50% miss chance, while helpful, cuts down on mana generation more than it helps in mitigating damage.
-That Jump makes it incredibly difficult to navigate the shafts in Coal (or so I've heard).
-That Haste makes it incredibly difficult to navigate the shafts in Coal (or so I've heard).
-That Deathward is preventing self-healing (fixed I think, but was an issue).
-That camo makes it impossible to see your character while trying to lead goggles in Abbot.

slaymen
10-22-2010, 11:46 AM
style of wanting to play toon, i can certainly continue on with other reasons why i do not want rage as well as input from others that do not want rage as well.
I understand the thought behind the values that some feel are of use for certain things from rage, however just a simple and heartfelt request of being able to have a means of being to not get rage or being able to cancel it would be great.

As I have said before I do not want to get this into a argument for or against rage, simply put a simple request of being able to cancel rage is what i want as well as numerous others desire.

this forum area is for request for enhancements not otherwise.

People have given you a way to cancel rage. Turn on defensive fighting, that should cancel it.

Cam_Neely
10-22-2010, 11:50 AM
style of wanting to play toon, i can certainly continue on with other reasons why i do not want rage as well as input from others that do not want rage as well.

If this were true, you would not have posted it. The suggestion area is where suggestions are made and DISCUSSES. If you want to take steps to change the game for ALL players, then you should expect some input. My guess is you wanted attention instead, so posted something.

Now, as to your suggestion. There is an easy way not to get rage. Solo or Post a party where the description is no Rage and make sure you state this in party chat. If you are joining someone elses party its typically assumed that they want to complete the quest, and will use different means to reach that end, including increases DPS and survivability, sometimes via the Rage spell

sephiroth1084
10-22-2010, 11:51 AM
People have given you a way to cancel rage. Turn on defensive fighting, that should cancel it.
Pretty sure defensive fighting doesn't cancel Rage, rather that people were saying that the 2 AC could be made up for by turning on defensive fighting (+2 AC, -4 attack), which is an awful solution, since that locks you out of Power Attack, still doesn't address the AC loss if you're using Combat Expertise, and/or imposes a potentially unwanted attack penalty.

platonicx
10-22-2010, 11:54 AM
rage is just another bless spell (stacking) unless u are in the minority of AC tank

Jiipster
10-22-2010, 11:54 AM
Pretty sure defensive fighting doesn't cancel Rage, rather that people were saying that the 2 AC could be made up for by turning on defensive fighting (+2 AC, -4 attack), which is an awful solution, since that locks you out of Power Attack, still doesn't address the AC loss if you're using Combat Expertise, and/or imposes a potentially unwanted attack penalty.

No, it actually removes Rage. And prevents it from being cast on your while active. It's a change for U7, a package-deal in order to make it remove the Inspire Recklessness-song from non-WF toons that can't spare an equipment slot for a 10% fort guild augment.

sephiroth1084
10-22-2010, 11:55 AM
If this were true, you would not have posted it. The suggestion area is where suggestions are made and DISCUSSES. If you want to take steps to change the game for ALL players, then you should expect some input. My guess is you wanted attention instead, so posted something.

Now, as to your suggestion. There is an easy way not to get rage. Solo or Post a party where the description is no Rage and make sure you state this in party chat. If you are joining someone elses party its typically assumed that they want to complete the quest, and will use different means to reach that end, including increases DPS and survivability, sometimes via the Rage spell
See my post above yours for a list of reasons for the ability to dismiss buffs that isn't subject to unnecessary argument.

The OP has an issue with Rage (likely misplaced), but his/her underlying point stands.

sephiroth1084
10-22-2010, 11:58 AM
No, it actually removes Rage. And prevents it from being cast on your while active. It's a change for U7, a package-deal in order to make it remove the Inspire Recklessness-song from non-WF toons that can't spare an equipment slot for a 10% fort guild augment.
I guess I missed this.

Stupid change. I understand that adding UI to buff icons, or possibly to the focus orb buff descriptions (would this somehow be easier, devs?) is far more difficult and time consuming than adding some code to that of either Rage or Defensive Fighting, but the ability to dismiss buffs is something we should have gotten a long time ago, and avoiding it seems like more lazy programming from Turbine.

How awkward is this!? You have to grab a feat that you likely have never used, and never intended to use, put it on a hotbar where you can find it, then activate it every time you get a Rage or Inspire Recklessness you didn't want, which may also turn off your Combat Expertise or Power Attack,. And you'll have to do that every time you get hit with Rage if it is that big of an issue, which is stupid given how often people throw Rage mid-combat.

Samadhi
10-22-2010, 12:01 PM
I think a solution to this, and all similar complaints with camo etc, is to just be able to dismiss buffs from yourself by rightclicking them or something. That way you can "refuse" a la delete any buff you don't want at any time.

sephiroth1084
10-22-2010, 12:03 PM
I think a solution to this, and all similar complaints with camo etc, is to just be able to dismiss buffs from yourself by rightclicking them or something. That way you can "refuse" a la delete any buff you don't want at any time.
/agree

efreet5
10-22-2010, 12:07 PM
If you have ever had an ac build, you realize every bit of AC means everything. That -2 almost takes out a chattering rings ac....one of the most difficult items to get in the game. An AC build needs a every little bit of AC they can get...

This is incorrect. In most content you do NOT need every point of ac you can get. A -2 Penalty to ac should not affect your incoming damage too much at all if you are truly an ac build with decent gear. I have a ranger tempest that gets upper 80's ac while raid buffed and can buff my own ac up to upper 70's and maintain it. I would rather have rage and use PA in 99% of the content than not do so. From someone who has an ac build, if a -2 penalty has a noticeable adverse affect on your incoming damage then you are not geared enough to be tanking anyway.

sephiroth1084
10-22-2010, 12:17 PM
This is incorrect. In most content you do NOT need every point of ac you can get. A -2 Penalty to ac should not affect your incoming damage too much at all if you are truly an ac build with decent gear. I have a ranger tempest that gets upper 80's ac while raid buffed and can buff my own ac up to upper 70's and maintain it. I would rather have rage and use PA in 99% of the content than not do so. From someone who has an ac build, if a -2 penalty has a noticeable adverse affect on your incoming damage then you are not geared enough to be tanking anyway.
While I mostly agree (and as someone who has multiple AC toons), there are some situations where that -2 AC matters, most notably if you are right at the cusp of having enough AC to not get hit, since the difference between only getting hit on a 20 and getting hit on a 18-20 is fairly noticeable, particularly if you are main-tanking.

Aerenal
10-22-2010, 12:35 PM
Well, if you play a Warchanter Bard, you can always declare that if someone casts Rage on you, you'll use Inspire Recklessness on them in return. Just joking, lol.


Defensive Fighting does remove Rage, i tested it. You can either enter into the stance when you notice that Rage has been cast on you, or enter into it when the buffs first start so you can prevent it(unless defensive fighting prevents other buffs too).

slaymen
10-22-2010, 12:47 PM
I guess I missed this.

How awkward is this!? You have to grab a feat that you likely have never used, and never intended to use, put it on a hotbar where you can find it, then activate it every time you get a Rage or Inspire Recklessness you didn't want, which may also turn off your Combat Expertise or Power Attack,. And you'll have to do that every time you get hit with Rage if it is that big of an issue, which is stupid given how often people throw Rage mid-combat.

Combat Expertise also removes rage. So no you don't have to turn off combat expertise.

Zombiekenny
10-22-2010, 01:12 PM
If you have ever had an ac build, you realize every bit of AC means everything. That -2 almost takes out a chattering rings ac....one of the most difficult items to get in the game. An AC build needs a every little bit of AC they can get...
In my experience, it is the 15AC level 20 casters/clerics that I hear complain about it the most, which is directly attributable to a lack of game knowledge

sephiroth1084
10-22-2010, 01:13 PM
Combat Expertise also removes rage. So no you don't have to turn off combat expertise.
Missing the point, though thanks for the info.

Awkward implementation in either case, and insufficient as it doesn't address other concerns and does not provide us the flexibility we should have. Namely, one should be able to have both Rage and CE up if they so desire (-4 attack, +1 damage, +lvl HP, +1 Fort, +3 AC) or just CE if that is what's called for.

Peopi
10-22-2010, 03:01 PM
I can't help but think how many spells get cast on a person while in a raid or dungeon. I think we need to take this a step further and have a pop-up window ask us if we would like to accept the spell being cast on us. That way we can pick only the spells we want.

Not sure if this would fix your problem. Ac toon states "I don't want rage, before you cast it, I am going to stand in the corner by myself".

But what do I know.

qes
10-22-2010, 07:34 PM
especially have a option that we can accept buffs or not accept them, so far there is certain buffs that no one complains about those being energy prot and resists
however haveing the option to accept certain buffs would really be the answer am looking for.

Finally people are really getting down to the nuts and bolts of what should be happening.

sirgog
10-22-2010, 07:56 PM
This is incorrect. In most content you do NOT need every point of ac you can get. A -2 Penalty to ac should not affect your incoming damage too much at all if you are truly an ac build with decent gear. I have a ranger tempest that gets upper 80's ac while raid buffed and can buff my own ac up to upper 70's and maintain it. I would rather have rage and use PA in 99% of the content than not do so. From someone who has an ac build, if a -2 penalty has a noticeable adverse affect on your incoming damage then you are not geared enough to be tanking anyway.

When you have the aggro of Suulomades in Elite ToD, the difference between 85 AC and 87 AC is that you take *almost triple the incoming melee damage*. You go from being able to be healed by a ranger with nothing other than wands of Remove Curse and Cure Serious to requiring a toon with UMD to heal you.

Of course, if your AC is 89, Rage is actually beneficial in that encounter.

krud
10-22-2010, 07:58 PM
What about when enemy mobs/purple balls cast tensers on my caster, can i have the option to cancel that "buff" as well?

joneb1999
10-22-2010, 08:15 PM
Well first the idea of a popup asking if you want to accept a buff is all well and good but that could be messy when you are starting the raid and about 10 buffs fly across the screen in nearly an instance. The answer could be to have only buffs with potential negatives such as rage have a popup.

BUT there is actually a way to avoid getting unwanted buffs already, communicate you dont want them beforehand and move away. If whoever is buffing goes ahead because he doesnt care and gives you the unwanted buff anyway, in a quest where it will really mess things up big time, then you probably dont want to partying with him in the first place in that instance.

Riggs
10-22-2010, 08:49 PM
Nice to know that defensive stance will pop rage off - just tested it and yeah it works.

People that say ac doesnt matter;

Dont know what high level ac is, and therefore do not understand the basic math involved of a build getting hit twice as much say with that simple -2 at the wrong time, (like say going from getting hit on a 19-20 to getting hit on a 17-20 = 2x the damage, for a tiny +1 to damage - math should be easier - but apparently its not) and

Are completely ignorant in tone and game understanding that some people have yes - spent months grinding for ac gear, like say 40 runs of Titan simply for the huge benefit of a +3 ac ring - to have it negated every quest, and that yes in fact - someone who has spent 6 months grinding out ac gear ACTUALLY CARES ABOUT THEIR AC. And someone who has spent time on ac actually knows the benefit of having ac vs getting hit all the time; and lastly

Trotting out the tired stupid arguments "Well if -2 ac matters you need to reroll or get better gear (see above), or else ac doesnt matter anyway so we dont care"

Here is a fun fact too - if +1 damage actually MATTERS to your so called dps build? You need to reroll because the build is gimp then - and pay your clerics more too because guess who picks up the slack.

Anyone who really doesnt think ac matters should spend more time playing a cleric, because they apparently dont either dont know what is actually keeping their 12 ac barb alive all this time - or expects everyone ELSE to spend massive amounts of cash on pots to keep up with their gimp build needing tons of heals.

Because there is actually parts of the game (gasp), that are not '10 people massed around one boss getting mass heals'. Go figure - there is more than 1 fight in the game eh?

Oran_Lathor
10-22-2010, 09:07 PM
The one that kills me is deathward blocking healing in shroud-forms. This is still happening, grr. The workaround given the new mechanic of PM is to exit and re-enter your form, at a net cost of 100 sp.

sirdanile
10-22-2010, 09:34 PM
I had a ranger get all ticked off in a shroud earlier because of this.
"Stop casting rage on me!"
"whats your ac?"
"35"
*facepalm*

*sorc moves away from group says "If you want rage stand on me"*

Ranger: GAH whats so freakin hard about not casting rage on me!!?!?!
Cleric: Why don't you have the songs or mass buffs we just cast?
Ranger: I stood away to avoid getting raged!

*doublepalm*

Lleren
10-22-2010, 10:42 PM
i'd rather have means to stop barkskin and camouflage (and stoneskin on my pure fvs)

I would love the option to cancel friendly buffs.

Sorry my barb does not want your Barkskin.

ninjaeli
10-22-2010, 11:01 PM
Why?

I'm sorry your gonna have to explain your position on this one.
Why would you not want a rage? And where is this happening to you? So we can understand why this is an issue.

I have just about every class of toon...and cannot think of a reason you wouldn't want rage.

i can if you a high ac nut and you want to squeeze every pt you can.

sephiroth1084
10-23-2010, 04:04 AM
I can't help but think how many spells get cast on a person while in a raid or dungeon. I think we need to take this a step further and have a pop-up window ask us if we would like to accept the spell being cast on us. That way we can pick only the spells we want.


Excessive and clunky. Simply adding the ability to either right click the buff icon on your buff bar (which seriously needs to be extended all the way across the screen or wrapped), or the ability to right click buffs in your focus orb and dismiss them is the best possible solution to this issue, since it is passive (don't get 20 accept dialogue boxes popping up at the start of the quest, or during fights--think about how many buffs you get mid-combat and how annoying that would be) and covers all situations effectively.

TimethiefXVI
10-23-2010, 04:10 AM
Excessive and clunky. Simply adding the ability to either right click the buff icon on your buff bar (which seriously needs to be extended all the way across the screen or wrapped), or the ability to right click buffs in your focus orb and dismiss them is the best possible solution to this issue, since it is passive (don't get 20 accept dialogue boxes popping up at the start of the quest, or during fights--think about how many buffs you get mid-combat and how annoying that would be) and covers all situations effectively.

yapp. a window popping up would be too messy.

just give it the option dismiss buff by rightclicking the icon. buffs from npcs should be excluded

qes
10-23-2010, 07:03 AM
I agree with being able to simply right click on icon or in the orb and dismiss a buff would be great, escpecially buffs that do have negative effects.

NaturalHazard
10-23-2010, 07:14 AM
I would love the option to cancel friendly buffs.

Sorry my barb does not want your Barkskin.

Yes but you prob hate to hear this but your barb actually is less of a visual eyesore to the rest of the party if he looks like walking tree bark, thats why I also slap camo on him too, believe me its an improvement. :D

flynnjsw
10-23-2010, 08:05 AM
style of wanting to play toon, i can certainly continue on with other reasons why i do not want rage as well as input from others that do not want rage as well.
I understand the thought behind the values that some feel are of use for certain things from rage, however just a simple and heartfelt request of being able to have a means of being to not get rage or being able to cancel it would be great.

As I have said before I do not want to get this into a argument for or against rage, simply put a simple request of being able to cancel rage is what i want as well as numerous others desire.

this forum area is for request for enhancements not otherwise.

If you don't want an argument, don't post on a public forum. Ever.

asphodeli
10-23-2010, 08:21 AM
RWAR! I'm so angry that I need to cast spells! *foams at mouth*

Seriously though, unless you really need that 2 AC (which is highly unlikely currently due to the amount of gear that is required to make an effective AC tank) be a man and take it. Its not the end of the world. At least you have +2 stacking CON.

PS: Can we have a new feat, Ragecast? That would be awesome!

AyumiAmakusa
10-23-2010, 08:31 AM
RWAR! I'm so angry that I need to cast spells! *foams at mouth*

You're either an 8 int Wiz with max str or a barbarian with a wiz multiclass. I can't tell.

sephiroth1084
10-23-2010, 09:57 AM
If you don't want an argument, don't post on a public forum. Ever.
Well, one could hope that the discussion/argument would at least revolve around the topic, rather than the irrelevant details.

sirdanile
10-23-2010, 01:46 PM
Yes but you prob hate to hear this but your barb actually is less of a visual eyesore to the rest of the party if he looks like walking tree bark, thats why I also slap camo on him too, believe me its an improvement. :D

Camo first, then stoneskin makes you look all like a ghost...

Barkskin ALMOST mimics the effect...

jcTharin
10-23-2010, 01:56 PM
Since U7, yes. At least the Rage-spell - Madstone remains. Haven't tried it with Barb Rage.

i did not know that. thanks.

i will need to remember that if i make a ac build. or if the fighter gets mad at me for making him angry.

RequiemVampie
10-23-2010, 02:12 PM
Well OP, you didn't want this to become an issue and now it is. -2 AC is not that big of a deal and AC means squat in Epic content anyway.

Maybe the 'scream' sound fx of the spell scares the OP? :p j/k

Tsuarok
10-23-2010, 03:03 PM
What about when enemy mobs/purple balls cast tensers on my caster, can i have the option to cancel that "buff" as well?

Easy, just classify all spells cast by enemies as debuffs -- non-dispellable.

Would also be nice to have buffs and debuffs in separate rows or something.

DrNuegebauer
10-23-2010, 03:53 PM
(1) There is no reason NOT to want rage UNLESS you are an AC build. If you are an AC build (ie, hitting 40+ at level 10 and 65+ at 18+) then progress to 2. IF not, enjoy rage - even if it's only for the extra hp (not temp).

(2) IF you don't want rage (or any buff for that matter) then the onus is surely on YOU to let people know that! So before the quest begins type into the party chat window "no rage for me please". If asked to cite your reason (you most likely will be) then explain why. If your reason is poor and you are removed from the party, don't cry or rage about it (pun intended).

I'll be honest, I can't think of too many quests where the AC is required over the damage IN A GROUP scenario. Sure, if you're soloing, the AC is great - but when in a group, -2 will make so little difference in almost every scenario.


If you don't want a particular buff SPEAK UP AND SAY SO. But rage is one of those standard buffs - like GH and haste, you should be expecting to be hit by it in every quest. IF you don't want it, it is on you to say so.

sirgog
10-23-2010, 11:32 PM
Well OP, you didn't want this to become an issue and now it is. -2 AC is not that big of a deal and AC means squat in Epic content anyway.

Maybe the 'scream' sound fx of the spell scares the OP? :p j/k

... except for the triple damage an 87 AC melee takes from elite Suulomades in ToD when their AC drops to 85. Playing a FvS as my main, I'd rather put an 87 AC melee with no fortification on elite Suulo than an 85 AC melee with heavy fort, the 87 AC 0 Fort one is easier to heal.

AC isn't irrelevant in Epics at all. It's only two epic raid bosses, Velah and Lailat, where AC doesn't matter. A low-90s AC is an incredibly strong defense in all the other epic content (perhaps other than Arach's Knight, Cojoined Abashai Devastator, the caster bosses like the Aspect of Cunning and Deadheart the Unbeaten)

qes
10-24-2010, 10:05 PM
if it matter to those that are whineing about supposed virutes of rage yes keeping what little ac my toons have is of great importance to me. True I have not and will not take time to run statistics about whether the loss of 2 ac is good or bad. However I prefer to keep the amount of ac i have, so a loss of 2 ac is a very big deal to me, most if not all of my toons are high con, so they tend to have a rather decent hp.

Now to get back to the thought of just suffer with one in party casting or useing a area effect thing like rage is very very very annoying! Especially when one very nicely request "if any in party are useing /casting rage to say so so i can GET out of the way", however unfortuneatly it is very rare i encounter a warning aboout someone useing casting rage.

So getting back to my original input the means of being able to not accept rage or being able to put something like the madstpone rods to use against rage would be great.
the thought of activateing defensive fighting auto cancels rage, does not work for me.

Please note that this segment of forums is actually for suggestions, not getting defensive or touting the supposed value of a action.

Now getting into the thought of being able to stop certain buff's from being cast that cause negative value to be cast.

Tarnoc
10-24-2010, 10:18 PM
if it matter to those that are whineing about supposed virutes of rage yes keeping what little ac my toons have is of great importance to me. True I have not and will not take time to run statistics about whether the loss of 2 ac is good or bad. However I prefer to keep the amount of ac i have, so a loss of 2 ac is a very big deal to me, most if not all of my toons are high con, so they tend to have a rather decent hp.

Now to get back to the thought of just suffer with one in party casting or useing a area effect thing like rage is very very very annoying! Especially when one very nicely request "if any in party are useing /casting rage to say so so i can GET out of the way", however unfortuneatly it is very rare i encounter a warning aboout someone useing casting rage.

So getting back to my original input the means of being able to not accept rage or being able to put something like the madstpone rods to use against rage would be great.
the thought of activateing defensive fighting auto cancels rage, does not work for me.

Please note that this segment of forums is actually for suggestions, not getting defensive or touting the supposed value of a action.

Now getting into the thought of being able to stop certain buff's from being cast that cause negative value to be cast.

do you ask others(clerics fvs sorcswizzys bards) for buffs?ie gh resists deathward recitation ac song damage song and the like?

Crann
10-25-2010, 08:00 AM
if it matter to those that are whineing about supposed virutes of rage yes keeping what little ac my toons have is of great importance to me. True I have not and will not take time to run statistics about whether the loss of 2 ac is good or bad. However I prefer to keep the amount of ac i have, so a loss of 2 ac is a very big deal to me, most if not all of my toons are high con, so they tend to have a rather decent hp.

Now to get back to the thought of just suffer with one in party casting or useing a area effect thing like rage is very very very annoying! Especially when one very nicely request "if any in party are useing /casting rage to say so so i can GET out of the way", however unfortuneatly it is very rare i encounter a warning aboout someone useing casting rage.

So getting back to my original input the means of being able to not accept rage or being able to put something like the madstpone rods to use against rage would be great.
the thought of activateing defensive fighting auto cancels rage, does not work for me.

Please note that this segment of forums is actually for suggestions, not getting defensive or touting the supposed value of a action.

Now getting into the thought of being able to stop certain buff's from being cast that cause negative value to be cast.

I think you keep missing when it has been said that entering a defensive stance will end a rage cast on you. There is a way to cancel it if it has been cast on you, and you don't want it. What else is it that you want them to do for you?

Tom318
10-25-2010, 08:09 AM
From Sir Terry Pratchett :


He said he had no doubt that there were people with a 'passion for caring', but asked them to accept there are people 'who have a burning passion not to need to be cared for'

From: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1203622/Ill-die-endgame-says-Terry-Pratchett-law-allow-assisted-suicides-UK.html#ixzz13NMmt9lO

Killer_Rabbit
10-25-2010, 08:13 AM
This is a weird thread... at first the OP requests from Turbine that there should be a way to remove rage; perfectly legitimate suggestion for those who want to have a choice. Then it becomes derailed by responses - Sadly like most threads, people don't seem to understand that they are not offering a discussion, just a suggestion. This thread turned into the typical forum drivel I've come to expect. Truly U7 is the half-breed mod... unfortunately you think it means half-wits too.

Crann
10-25-2010, 08:22 AM
This is a weird thread... at first the OP requests from Turbine that there should be a way to remove rage; perfectly legitimate suggestion for those who want to have a choice. Then it becomes derailed by responses - Sadly like most threads, people don't seem to understand that they are not offering a discussion, just a suggestion. This thread turned into the typical forum drivel I've come to expect. Truly U7 is the half-breed mod... unfortunately you think it means half-wits too.

Did you also miss the part where it was explained how to remove the buff? OP's question has been asked, and answered several times over in this thread. What harm comes from a healthy discussion on the benefit v. liability of the rage spell? Especially when the OP has made several comments which indicate that he does not understand how AC works in this game.

Killer_Rabbit
10-25-2010, 08:29 AM
Did you also miss the part where it was explained how to remove the buff? OP's question has been asked, and answered several times over in this thread. What harm comes from a healthy discussion on the benefit v. liability of the rage spell? Especially when the OP has made several comments which indicate that he does not understand how AC works in this game.

Yes, I saw it, is it an official fix for the problem as provided by Turbine, or simply a glitch? Guess what the OP was asking for.

By the way, a proper place for a spells discussion is... go on you can do it... oh well maybe not.

CrescentCalling_5
10-25-2010, 08:37 AM
I agree with the poster.

While the benefits of Rage are obvious (bonus to str, bonus to con) the "seemingly" negligible penalty to AC can be problematic. At early levels (even at levels where one can cast rage) some non-melee characters rely more on their AC for defense than a shield of hp (as a wizard I used both Mage Armor and the Shield spell, along with a potion of shield of faith for the +4 Armor bonus, +4 shield bonus, and +2 deflection bonus. I can't begin to say how many times having that +10 AC bonus saved my butt, but I can say it was more than once in a critical moment). Rogues, for example, pretty much rely on either being able to avoid combat with Diplomacy (or others taking aggro) or their high dexterity bonus to AC.

Any spell that gives a penalty to something should be by choice.

Nevthial
10-25-2010, 08:48 AM
the thought of activating defensive fighting auto cancels rage, does not work for me.

You were given the means to remove it, but it doesn't work for you?

I smell a troll.

sephiroth1084
10-25-2010, 08:59 AM
You were given the means to remove it, but it doesn't work for you?

I smell a troll.
Or perhaps the incredibly awkward implementation is unsuitable? If you don't want Rage, but get hit with it in the middle of a fight, should you have to stop attacking, activate CE or defensive fighting, reactivate PA (if you had it on) then resume fighting? How about for song of Recklessness?

Nevthial
10-25-2010, 09:45 AM
Or perhaps the incredibly awkward implementation is unsuitable? If you don't want Rage, but get hit with it in the middle of a fight, should you have to stop attacking, activate CE or defensive fighting, reactivate PA (if you had it on) then resume fighting? How about for song of Recklessness?

It's no different than clicking on the buff bar as others have suggested and it's already in place and working.

And yes, if a character doesn't want it but the rest of the group does, they should deal with whatever it takes to remove it. Or just solo if they feel they are more important than the other 5-11 players.

TimethiefXVI
10-25-2010, 10:18 AM
to the OP: the problem is solved atm, u enter defensive stance and rage is gone. having sucha usefull spell like rage as an aoe is GREAT and makes the casters job easier.
To generalise ur idea of not accepting buffs its also stated several times alreaddy that the idea of dismissing buffs on urself is signed and wanted.

u made a suggestion, it will be discussed and a conclusion will be drawn... thats how it work.

for the problem of healing 12 AC barbs, i have no problem there as im NOT healing any AC barbs. ask again if ur ac hits 0.

sephiroth1084
10-25-2010, 10:28 AM
It's no different than clicking on the buff bar as others have suggested and it's already in place and working.
It is very different.



And yes, if a character doesn't want it but the rest of the group does, they should deal with whatever it takes to remove it. Or just solo if they feel they are more important than the other 5-11 players.
So, your argument is, what? Improving the game by giving players options isn't valuable because you're feeling *****y today?

Nevthial
10-25-2010, 12:57 PM
It is very different.


So, your argument is, what? Improving the game by giving players options isn't valuable because you're feeling *****y today?

They have given him the option to remove it. Not using that option by choice, is well, his choice. Having more dev time spent to give an additional option for removing it would be a total waste of time. He will lose what 2-3 seconds activating CE or another defensive stance ? If that ruins the quest/raid, then something else is seriously wrong.
Oh, and I'm in a great mood today :D

Asketes
10-25-2010, 01:14 PM
style of wanting to play toon, i can certainly continue on with other reasons why i do not want rage as well as input from others that do not want rage as well.
I understand the thought behind the values that some feel are of use for certain things from rage, however just a simple and heartfelt request of being able to have a means of being to not get rage or being able to cancel it would be great.

As I have said before I do not want to get this into a argument for or against rage, simply put a simple request of being able to cancel rage is what i want as well as numerous others desire.

this forum area is for request for enhancements not otherwise.


This is an honest response and I mean absolutely NO disrespect by saying this:

WHY are you asking questions like that on the forums? The majority of the forums are populated by total new players who cannot answer your question, or by those that are like me.. They want a legitimate reason behind why one would do such a thing.

I do believe they added the ability to cancel *some* buffs by entering into defensive fighting (i think every class gets this as a free feat at level 1) try entering that, if it doesn't work, you are S.O.L.

grandeibra
10-25-2010, 01:31 PM
Let's say a lvl 20 toon that has good but not freaky good ac gets hit by trashmobs on a 17 when he has PA on. If he gets rage cast on him he gets hit on a 15, i.e. 50% more often. Compare that 50% to the effect of rage which adds 1 damage per swing (+ a bit more for crits) out of a total average damage of at least 50-100, i.e. at most 2% (unless the to hit sucks so the +1 adds hits which it shouldnt on trashmobs). For bosses where AC don't matter and more to hit may help it's of course another matter. Personally I never understand why so many people knock the ones who prefer to not get the measly <2% dps boost to avoid huge differences in incoming hits.

I personally think Turbine's fix is great. Most prefer getting rage of course, so the few that don't can fix it themselves. It will take about a second to activate CE then 6 more secs of lower dps then another second to activate PA. Not a big sacrifice. Especially since many of the rages will be cast out-of-fights :)

qes
10-31-2010, 09:11 AM
(1) There is no reason NOT to want rage UNLESS you are an AC build. If you are an AC build (ie, hitting 40+ at level 10 and 65+ at 18+) then progress to 2. IF not, enjoy rage - even if it's only for the extra hp (not temp).

(2) IF you don't want rage (or any buff for that matter) then the onus is surely on YOU to let people know that! So before the quest begins type into the party chat window "no rage for me please". If asked to cite your reason (you most likely will be) then explain why. If your reason is poor and you are removed from the party, don't cry or rage about it (pun intended).

I'll be honest, I can't think of too many quests where the AC is required over the damage IN A GROUP scenario. Sure, if you're soloing, the AC is great - but when in a group, -2 will make so little difference in almost every scenario.


If you don't want a particular buff SPEAK UP AND SAY SO. But rage is one of those standard buffs - like GH and haste, you should be expecting to be hit by it in every quest. IF you don't want it, it is on you to say so.

Also the defensive fighting thing does not cancel rage on my toons!
I do put it as nicely and as simply as i can about haveing rage cast on my toons, however people do not CARE!

I am finding it amazeing that some people are touting the effects of rage as such a good thing. I also have the thought that to be able to feel that the loss of 2 ac is not important to some, that i find amazeing also. Even if haveing the 2 ac would improve my chance of not being hit by say as little as 3 percent then I prefer the ac to the supposed 20 hp boost.

So this forces me to come back to the request either to be able to decline certain supposed buffs or have the ability to negate certain buffs!

Lorien_the_First_One
10-31-2010, 09:19 AM
Yes, I saw it, is it an official fix for the problem as provided by Turbine, or simply a glitch? Guess what the OP was asking for.

By the way, a proper place for a spells discussion is... go on you can do it... oh well maybe not.

It's official since Turbine devs TOLD us about it.

And -rep for your uncalled for insult of another poster

Lorien_the_First_One
10-31-2010, 09:20 AM
Also the defensive fighting thing does not cancel rage on my toons!

File a bug report, that's not WAI.

Also take a screenshot where you can see you are raged and DF is engaged and post it here.

Tinrae
10-31-2010, 09:25 AM
having the ability to dismiss a buff casted on you /signed

^ This. While I don't mind Rage personally, but I'd like the ability to dismiss other buffs casted on me.