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le_goat
10-19-2010, 09:20 AM
it would be great if there were a ranger/and or elven enhancement that lets you imbue your currently used arrows with returning. Maybe like a ranger spell that costs 20sp , lasts for 5 minutes and makes your equipped arrows act as returning arrows.

maybe even include it in arcane archer pre.

and please....bring in hammer arrows for skeletons.

Lorien_the_First_One
10-19-2010, 09:21 AM
Get your house D favor, they sell returning arrows and bolts.

SiliconShadow
10-19-2010, 09:21 AM
+1 For the ideas

Mainly because you have shards of light for skeletons, and it would actually make them worth using if a arcane archer could make these 100% returning!


Get your house D favor, they sell returning arrows and bolts.

OPs idea revolves around other types of arrows, ie anarchic, axiomatic, flaming, silver, coldiron etc.

If an arcane archer could make these 100% returning then the problems with aa ranged dps would actually be brought back of the dark ages imo.

le_goat
10-19-2010, 09:30 AM
Get your house D favor, they sell returning arrows and bolts.

as the post after you states, this is mainly for arrows with different effects, not just the +3 variety.

dragons1ayer74
10-19-2010, 09:42 AM
The returning arrows from house d are nice but should not be the only real source of ammunition for missile combatants. The DDO cast had some great ranged combat discussion on the last show, returning arrows where only mentioned as raid loot, a good idea but I like this idea too. An enhancement to make ammunition returning would be great, the enhancement line should be available for any character that has the rapid shot feat, basically any one using a missile or thrown weapon that has a little bit invested in it. The enhancement line could be called "Skilled Retriver". From the perspective of the user there ammunition is not magically enhanced but rather it represents taking time after the heat of battle to recover some of their ammunition. For ease of game administration and player ease of use this would be in the form of a stacking returning percentage.

Here is my recomendation on how to add it to DDO.

Skilled Retriever 1
Cost: 2 AP
The combatant is skilled at recovering and reusing ammunition.
Prerequisites: Rapid Shot
Benefit: Add stacking +25% returning to any missile/thrown weapon


Skilled Retriever 2
Cost: 1 AP
The combatant is more skilled at recovering and reusing ammunition.
Prerequisites: Skilled Retriever 1, 16 AP Spent
Benefit: Add a stacking +10% (for a +35% total from enhancement) Returning to any missile/thrown weapon


Skilled Retriever 3
Cost: 1 AP
The combatant is more skilled at recovering and reusing ammunition.
Prerequisites: Skilled Retriever 2, 32 AP Spent
Benefit: Add a stacking +5% (for a +40% total from enhancement) Returning to any missile/thrown weapon

Darkrok
10-19-2010, 10:42 AM
The returning might be a bit overpowered. I think blunt and slashing arrows though are long overdue - could easily be added to the House D merchant. Would also think that AA's should be able to choose their damage type when they summon their arrows.

h4x0r1f1c
10-19-2010, 04:24 PM
This is a great idea if it replaces Slaying Arrows.

hityawithastick
10-19-2010, 04:26 PM
Returning arrows should take damage when they hit oozes. :D

Doxmaster
10-19-2010, 04:35 PM
This would be interesting no matter how it's done.
If the returning property became an arrow Imbue of it's own, it would be great (espeically if it appears alongside the first imbue so we get it at level 6)
If the returning property was added to all arrows you fire if you have the right enhancement, it would be great even if there is only a % chance of them actually returning.
If you had to cast a spell that would make your arrows returning, it would STILL be great.

The first is already balanced, the second would be balanced since it would cost AP and be partial and the third would be alright so long as the spell is given in the Arcane archer PrE arcane archer.

Ybbald
10-19-2010, 07:08 PM
Something needs to be done to allow archers to use random drop arrows

toughguyjoe
10-19-2010, 07:21 PM
This is a great idea if it replaces Slaying Arrows.

This will replace Slayer arrows, and two levels of monk won't give you evasion, polar ray won't exist PWS will stop working Flesh to Stone will stop working and meteor swarm will more closely mimic a 4 year old tossing pebbles at people.

AltheaSteelrain
10-19-2010, 07:22 PM
I vote for random loot returning arrows.

I am sick of UMD's N number of Fire Arrows from wands just to get a cheap 1-6 extra damage against trash mobs that are not immune from it. :P

AltheaSteelrain
10-19-2010, 07:23 PM
This will replace Slayer arrows, and two levels of monk won't give you evasion, polar ray won't exist PWS will stop working Flesh to Stone will stop working and meteor swarm will more closely mimic a 4 year old tossing pebbles at people.

Wow. You actually fed the troll O.o

pasterqb
10-19-2010, 07:36 PM
PWS will stop working

NO!!!!! This will completely break PvE!!!!!! I see party wipes in the future ;)

toughguyjoe
10-20-2010, 08:19 AM
Wow. You actually fed the troll O.o

Going to feed the Troll slayer arrows once Dispelpwn gets up to level!

Psyker
10-20-2010, 08:22 AM
From the perspective of the user there ammunition is not magically enhanced but rather it represents taking time after the heat of battle to recover some of their ammunition. For ease of game administration and player ease of use this would be in the form of a stacking returning percentage.

Here is my recomendation on how to add it to DDO.

Skilled Retriever 1
Cost: 2 AP
The combatant is skilled at recovering and reusing ammunition.
Prerequisites: Rapid Shot
Benefit: Add stacking +25% returning to any missile/thrown weapon


Skilled Retriever 2
Cost: 1 AP
The combatant is more skilled at recovering and reusing ammunition.
Prerequisites: Skilled Retriever 1, 16 AP Spent
Benefit: Add a stacking +10% (for a +35% total from enhancement) Returning to any missile/thrown weapon


Skilled Retriever 3
Cost: 1 AP
The combatant is more skilled at recovering and reusing ammunition.
Prerequisites: Skilled Retriever 2, 32 AP Spent
Benefit: Add a stacking +5% (for a +40% total from enhancement) Returning to any missile/thrown weapon

I like the way you describe this, it would also go a long way in explaining why ranged combat is so slow

Scraap
10-20-2010, 08:35 AM
The returning arrows from house d are nice but should not be the only real source of ammunition for missile combatants. The DDO cast had some great ranged combat discussion on the last show, returning arrows where only mentioned as raid loot, a good idea but I like this idea too. An enhancement to make ammunition returning would be great, the enhancement line should be available for any character that has the rapid shot feat, basically any one using a missile or thrown weapon that has a little bit invested in it. The enhancement line could be called "Skilled Retriver". From the perspective of the user there ammunition is not magically enhanced but rather it represents taking time after the heat of battle to recover some of their ammunition. For ease of game administration and player ease of use this would be in the form of a stacking returning percentage.

Here is my recomendation on how to add it to DDO.

Skilled Retriever 1
Cost: 2 AP
The combatant is skilled at recovering and reusing ammunition.
Prerequisites: Rapid Shot
Benefit: Add stacking +25% returning to any missile/thrown weapon


Skilled Retriever 2
Cost: 1 AP
The combatant is more skilled at recovering and reusing ammunition.
Prerequisites: Skilled Retriever 1, 16 AP Spent
Benefit: Add a stacking +10% (for a +35% total from enhancement) Returning to any missile/thrown weapon


Skilled Retriever 3
Cost: 1 AP
The combatant is more skilled at recovering and reusing ammunition.
Prerequisites: Skilled Retriever 2, 32 AP Spent
Benefit: Add a stacking +5% (for a +40% total from enhancement) Returning to any missile/thrown weapon

I could definitely get behind that one, though not real sure on the numbers there. 40% only gives you 28 from a stack of 20 (probability wise). Even 75% (non-stacking with inherent) would only raise that to 35, which doesn't seem that OP given either many-shot or repeater heavy usage. Now if you're only using the things as a differently modeled returning dagger, sure, but I'll blow through 500 or more a quest on average of those 75%'ers from house D on the one I've got at present built for primary ranging.

AltheaSteelrain
10-20-2010, 08:36 AM
Going to feed the Troll slayer arrows once Dispelpwn gets up to level!

lolx

dragons1ayer74
10-20-2010, 10:51 AM
I could definitely get behind that one, though not real sure on the numbers there. 40% only gives you 28 from a stack of 20 (probability wise). Even 75% (non-stacking with inherent) would only raise that to 35, which doesn't seem that OP given either many-shot or repeater heavy usage. Now if you're only using the things as a differently modeled returning dagger, sure, but I'll blow through 500 or more a quest on average of those 75%'ers from house D on the one I've got at present built for primary ranging.

First returning is not like normal math "40% only gives you 28 from a stack of 20 (probability wise). " 40% Returning is more statistically like an actual percentage increase of 66%. So stacks of 20 would be like getting a bonus of 13 arrows on average. Secondly the ideas where also meant to go hand in hand with increasing the random arrow drops form 20 to 100 and also work with some random arrows already in the game (ie: Screaming Amethyst Arrows and / or Shards of Light).

I do conceit that the proposed values need adjusted or the system tweaked. A stacking +40% to bring some arrows to over 100% is perhaps overpowered. In the same way that 40% on random arrows is better than nothing but on a stack of 20 arrows really not great for the cost associated. A better system might be 30% per tier for base ammunition that is non-returning and 10% per tier for ammunition that already posses a returning percentage.

dragons1ayer74
10-20-2010, 10:55 AM
I like the way you describe this, it would also go a long way in explaining why ranged combat is so slow

lol +1


You mean ranged combat is slow because in game it represents players taking time after combat to go retrieve the ammunition.

ROFL

Psyker
10-20-2010, 03:46 PM
lol +1


You mean ranged combat is slow because in game it represents players taking time after combat to go retrieve the ammunition.

ROFL

exactly

Doxmaster
11-01-2010, 04:12 PM
I refuse to let this die. It is a nice idea after all...

Scraap
11-01-2010, 05:17 PM
First returning is not like normal math "40% only gives you 28 from a stack of 20 (probability wise). " 40% Returning is more statistically like an actual percentage increase of 66%. So stacks of 20 would be like getting a bonus of 13 arrows on average. Secondly the ideas where also meant to go hand in hand with increasing the random arrow drops form 20 to 100 and also work with some random arrows already in the game (ie: Screaming Amethyst Arrows and / or Shards of Light).

I do conceit that the proposed values need adjusted or the system tweaked. A stacking +40% to bring some arrows to over 100% is perhaps overpowered. In the same way that 40% on random arrows is better than nothing but on a stack of 20 arrows really not great for the cost associated. A better system might be 30% per tier for base ammunition that is non-returning and 10% per tier for ammunition that already posses a returning percentage.

Hrm. Point. Had forgotten the recursive nature of the probabilities. Lesee, using

((1+X)*2*Y)+X
where X is the base, (1+X)*2 gets you the sum if they're always re-added, and Y is a multiplier representing the percentage re-added to the stack (been a while since I did the statistics bit, so feel free to correct the math)

current stack size with 40% -
((1+20)*2)*0.40+20 = 36.8 equivalent.

current stack size with 75% -
((1+20)*2)*0.75+20 = 51.5 equivalent.

stack size of 100 with 40% -
((1+100)*2)*0.4+100 = 180.8

current stack size of 1k house D returners -
((1+1000) * 2)*0.75+1000 = 2501.5

Look about right for comparison purposes?

(That last thrown in to account for repeatable purchases vs random drops in terms of game-impact. Easy to say 20 base, or 40% is probably too small. Not so easy to say to what degree without comparing to what should be considered a useful amount.)

Rakian_Knight
11-01-2010, 10:06 PM
Here is my recomendation on how to add it to DDO.

Skilled Retriever 1
Cost: 2 AP
The combatant is skilled at recovering and reusing ammunition.
Prerequisites: Rapid Shot
Benefit: Add stacking +25% returning to any missile/thrown weapon


Skilled Retriever 2
Cost: 1 AP
The combatant is more skilled at recovering and reusing ammunition.
Prerequisites: Skilled Retriever 1, 16 AP Spent
Benefit: Add a stacking +10% (for a +35% total from enhancement) Returning to any missile/thrown weapon


Skilled Retriever 3
Cost: 1 AP
The combatant is more skilled at recovering and reusing ammunition.
Prerequisites: Skilled Retriever 2, 32 AP Spent
Benefit: Add a stacking +5% (for a +40% total from enhancement) Returning to any missile/thrown weapon

I believe that this would be a great idea to add to Rangers, Elves, and maybe halfling (because of their throwing focus).

/signed and +1 for a great idea

Raodin-bel-iori
11-21-2010, 07:29 PM
This will replace Slayer arrows, and two levels of monk won't give you evasion, polar ray won't exist PWS will stop working Flesh to Stone will stop working and meteor swarm will more closely mimic a 4 year old tossing pebbles at people.

Thank you. I personally love my slaying arrows. That aside, I think it would be cool to be able to either retrieve, or make returning the special ammo I find. The reason I never keep any bane type ammo around is simply because I can never acquire enough of it for it to be effective. If I could make them returning or retrieve them I could use them for a whole quest that's filled with goblinoids, reptiles, etc and not run out in the first 5 minutes of the quest. Also I'd get more than 20 or 30 shots at a dragon before I run out of that special arrow that was so hard to find.