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View Full Version : So what's your favorite Palemaster Summon?



CrescentCalling_5
10-12-2010, 06:41 PM
So I'm a level 9 Wizard in-game (as you'll see when they finally fix the characters section properly) and I have the Palemaster I enhancement, as well as all the summons :D

My current favorite is actually the Archer when I'm fighting living creatures and the knight when I'm fighting dead creatures. Haven't found a real use for the arcane yet >>"

So what's your favorite and why?

rapdogztor
10-12-2010, 07:31 PM
Well I am curious as to what the other 2 skeletons actually do in terms of combat sucess. I have the basic skelly you get with pale master 1, who is more like melee fodder to distract enemies while I get 1 free sneak attack on a key bad monster. I have a fire breathing dog to hold mass monsters at bay. But I have not invested any points into knight, archer or mage skeleton, and I'm wondering are they worth it? I can understand when I get to end game, the little dingy fodder is not going to cut it, I can understand investing points into the skeletons then, but at mid game, I dont see the point. You only get 80 points in the entire game, and I have a lot dedicated to maximizing damage, I dont even have spell critical chance because I'm so consentrated on wand maximizing, and wand and scroll damage. Maybe when they cut the costs from a 1, 2,3 4 system to a 1,1,1,1 It will free up some points, then I'll be able, but I'm wondering is it cost effective to go for the archer the knight or the mage at midgame?

Jaid314
10-12-2010, 07:42 PM
my first piece of advice is to dump all your wand and scroll damage boosts. wand and scroll damage is not going to cut it. the eternal wands are your friend, and i'm not saying you should scrap them (though it's getting to the point where even their damage is not meaningful and you should probably put them in storage in case you ever TR), but you really should ditch the wand and scroll lines and focus on actually casting spells when it comes to offense (allow me to put this in perspective: a fireball scroll should have a DC 14 reflex save to it. this is roughly equivalent to the save DC you should have had in *korthos* with your 0th level spells if you had any... you don't, mind you, so your save DC for every spell should have been 15, 16 if you're a drow. if you cast burning hands, you are seriously likely to do more damage than if you use a fireball scroll, and that's assuming we don't even factor in enhancements and gear to your burning hands spell, which can be much more than what will improve your scroll damage).

right, so now that's out of the way... at high levels, the best summon is probably no summon at all. oh, there's a few places where it doesn't actively hurt to have a summon out, and in some of those places your summon may even contribute a tiny bit without getting killed within the first minute of being summoned. but overall? i wouldn't worry too much about it. pale master is good for the bonus hit points and the bonus save DC (and the really inexpensive negative energy abilities). (note: if you plan to focus on epic quests, your necromancy save DCs become meaningless in those quests also)

Sirea
10-12-2010, 07:54 PM
Honestly I don't see the point of the extra PM summons you can get. Your action points are better spent on pretty much anything else: damage amp, crit chance, spell pen, spell points, toughness enhancements, even improved metamagic. Why waste time summoning these things when you could just outright kill the monsters?

To offer my input on the usefulness of wand/scroll mastery, the only times I'd advocate taking those is on a WF caster (for recon scrolls) or on a build that can UMD heal scrolls (18wiz/2rog for example).

Mornai
10-12-2010, 09:12 PM
Honestly I don't see the point of the extra PM summons you can get. Your action points are better spent on pretty much anything else: damage amp, crit chance, spell pen, spell points, toughness enhancements, even improved metamagic. Why waste time summoning these things when you could just outright kill the monsters?

To offer my input on the usefulness of wand/scroll mastery, the only times I'd advocate taking those is on a WF caster (for recon scrolls) or on a build that can UMD heal scrolls (18wiz/2rog for example).

For me, they're not there for damage, primarily for distractions. And they do that with great efficiency(at least for me). I'm not starved for AP. I usually end up having excess AP after getting all of the enhancements i need at a level, and use the left overs to spend on whatever i want.

sirgog
10-12-2010, 09:17 PM
For me, they're not there for damage, primarily for distractions. And they do that with great efficiency(at least for me). I'm not starved for AP. I usually end up having excess AP after getting all of the enhancements i need at a level, and use the left overs to spend on whatever i want.

While levelling, I love the Knight.

It's got a huge AC, and few enemies can kill it quickly at all. I've had situations where I've died, and my Knight has finished off an entire roomfull of foes.

Aashrym
10-12-2010, 09:20 PM
I think the knight is the best of the bunch. Not great at damage but it has a decent amount of HP and will soak a bit of damage for you.

The undead forms is more of a benefit than the summons.

Meretrix
10-12-2010, 09:32 PM
Too bad by the time you get the best summons they are worthless. They are thinking of condensing the summon line however. Still, I don't see myself ever using them at 20 unless they come free with Pale Master tiers, and then just for fun.

Aashrym
10-12-2010, 09:44 PM
Adding a command bar similar to hirelings would go a long way to make them more useful. Stay, attack target, defend, passive mode, etc.

If I could select targets or stop them from drawing aggro it would be nice. Having a high to hit archer doesn't do any good if we can't select a high AC target for him.

Telling the mage where to cast what and when (eg Wall of Fire spamming) would be much, much more useful.

Without the the ability to issue some commands to them they are lacking. Add that and they might have some more potential.

dogonovo
10-12-2010, 10:10 PM
Agree with Sirgog, Knight is a tough cookie to break when you first get it. At lvl 9 he still lasts a lot. The vanilla skellie is way more agressive tho (and not as jumpstatic as the Knight, there is a crack dealer in the afterlife in Eberron I tell you...) but he doesnt Sunder. As soon as I got Palemaster I ran a Redwillows and it was lots of fun to see the Arcane Skellie going gung-ho at the giant army while I was perched on the rocks. Not the fastest way, not the most efficient but darned funny to see the jumpstatic Arcane Skellie raining ice over the giants and serving then a chaser of Scorching Ray.

Silverleafeon
10-12-2010, 10:49 PM
{With augment summoning and sometimes mass bears/bulls/blur/whatever}

Of the pale master one group:
The normal skeleton was interesting for starters.
I prefered the skeleton knight best, it kept alive almost all of the time till i got to about 11th level.
Combined with casting summon monsters spells they kept a far amount of aggro away from me.
The arcane spellcaster did not impress me as it did not seem to do much before running out of mana or being killed.
The archer skeleton seemed to attract a lot of attention upon which it would die when the mobs swarmed it.

Of the pale master two group:
I like the skeleton knight nicely as it lasts well; even at 17th level although I'm having to resummoning it more lately as I move into the higher level quests.
The arcane spellcasting skeleton really impressed me by all the spells it would cast for so little cost. At times I could just use it along with my greensteel clickly dense earthelemental and shoot with my heavy repeating greensteel without casting many spells. It also is getting killed a bit more lately before its blue bar is gone. But basically, I just resummon this one as soon as it has run out of spell points.
The archer skeleton has no real facts with me, since I did not use it much having prefered the other two most of the time.

Of the pale master three group:
Sorry, got one more level to go, but I'm gearing up to try out all three along with my summon monster 9 spell.

dogonovo
10-13-2010, 01:42 AM
Yes, forgot to add that my experience is with Augment Summon as well. The Archer was interesting in Forgotten Caves for example, just because he is an aggro magnet (I would have to get much closer for the Knight to react). As soon as he shot the first troll and all the gang came a-rushing I could cast a firewall on the way and position myself at leaisure. soon as they got past the fire aggro changes to me and he would immediately start shooting at the stray ones. Also thanked him at times when there were perched monsters. Now with Elemental summon and its grab he can even kill a bit in auto crit =)

Doxmaster
10-13-2010, 05:24 AM
Well I am curious as to what the other 2 skeletons actually do in terms of combat sucess. I have the basic skelly you get with pale master 1, who is more like melee fodder to distract enemies while I get 1 free sneak attack on a key bad monster. I have a fire breathing dog to hold mass monsters at bay. But I have not invested any points into knight, archer or mage skeleton, and I'm wondering are they worth it? I can understand when I get to end game, the little dingy fodder is not going to cut it, I can understand investing points into the skeletons then, but at mid game, I dont see the point. You only get 80 points in the entire game, and I have a lot dedicated to maximizing damage, I dont even have spell critical chance because I'm so consentrated on wand maximizing, and wand and scroll damage. Maybe when they cut the costs from a 1, 2,3 4 system to a 1,1,1,1 It will free up some points, then I'll be able, but I'm wondering is it cost effective to go for the archer the knight or the mage at midgame?

You are doing the exact opposite of what you want to do. Spell critical chance increases your damage a lot, while the wand/scroll damage boost are basically worthless. Wand DC boosting is mostly useless; you are only going to reliably land the spells monsters at the wand's level or lower, so at level ten or so wands become mostly useless for spells with saves charms and extremely weak for nuking.

If you are specializing yourself for damage, maximize elemental damage and all elemental critical chances, then get the enhancements that increase spell crit damage.

Since you arent really damage specced, focusing on getting Pale master summons won't hurt you as much as it would bother someone who was fully damage specced, so go ahead and try it out.

While some may consider them pure cannonfodder, each can and will do a job for you in the level tier you get them: The knight will take damage and aggro for you (I'm pretty sure he either has MASSIVE aggro boosts on his attacks or can intimidate) the archer can hit well and draw monsters to you (it also locates enemies and attacks them long before they lock onto you) and the mage...well, the mages cast a lot of spells for the low cost of 30 of your sp. The spells might not insta-kill anything, but loads of weak firewalls, hold monsters and force missiles/magic missile/chain missile for 30 sp make it pretty good for the cost of summoning it.

Good combinations:
Melee Summon monster + archer: decent defense
Melee summon monster + Knight: melee distractions
Melee summon monster + Mage: most effective damage.

gurgar78
10-13-2010, 11:08 AM
As I was levelling up, I acquired and used all of the summons. Once I got to about level 15 or 16, I swapped out the archer and mage summons and stuck with just the knight summons.

Knight does a great job at keeping aggro and, even without augment summoning, is a beast to kill. My frostmarrow knight has somewhere in the area of 1200 or 1300 hps.

The one summon I never cared for was the archer. Hardly used it. It didn't really seem to do much.

The mage is great though for damage. You will have to resummon him periodically as he runs out of mana, but it's cheap damage for the few SPs it costs to summon him.

Also, in addition to the damage spells, he also casts hold person/monster.

I never tried the frostmarrow mage to see how well he did. By the time I hit 18, I just grabbed the knights in the event I needed a distraction and passed on the others.

shadowsaun
10-27-2010, 11:21 AM
does the Frostmarrow Mage still have a death aura?

And if so will it heal us PM's?

gurgar78
10-27-2010, 11:36 AM
does the Frostmarrow Mage still have a death aura?

And if so will it heal us PM's?

None of the skeletal mages have the perma-aura that NPC skeletal mages have.

shadowsaun
10-27-2010, 11:39 AM
bummer.

Did the Frostmarrow use to? I seems before I TRed I tried the first flavor of PM and seem to remember that it did...I must be mistaken.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Im really loven PM now :)

gurgar78
10-27-2010, 11:45 AM
bummer.

Did the Frostmarrow use to? I seems before I TRed I tried the first flavor of PM and seem to remember that it did...I must be mistaken.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Im really loven PM now :)

I was not actively playing when PM was first introduced, so I can't speak to that. Currently when you summon a skeletal mage, the aura appears very briefly (often just enough to damage/heal you for one tick) and then it disappears. Leads me to believe that they added a routine after the fact that specifically negates the aura for PC summons.

shadowsaun
10-27-2010, 11:57 AM
yep. Thats why Im confused. I thought maybe the third tier mage would actually have it.

I also noticed a quick blip of the aura when summoning....only healed me for "1"

I think they should have there aura!!! Anyone else?

Most people don't think the PM summons are worth it, but if they had there aura that would really be prime !

Scraap
10-27-2010, 12:16 PM
yep. Thats why Im confused. I thought maybe the third tier mage would actually have it.

I also noticed a quick blip of the aura when summoning....only healed me for "1"

I think they should have there aura!!! Anyone else?

Most people don't think the PM summons are worth it, but if they had there aura that would really be prime !

Sounds like having your own personal radiant servant in your back pocket with more offensive spell capabilities. So yeah, I'd love it, but likely over the top from a design balance perspective.

shadowsaun
10-27-2010, 12:48 PM
I know...I so know

I need to be careful cause I have never had so much self healing before....I'm taking way too many risks! But living!

RS is awesome as well, but my aura heals more and stays longer. Guess I was hoping that when I hit l18 I would have one more bubble to love :)

Anyone up for a full PM shroud run?

TFPAQ
10-27-2010, 12:52 PM
While levelling, I love the Knight.

It's got a huge AC, and few enemies can kill it quickly at all. I've had situations where I've died, and my Knight has finished off an entire roomfull of foes.

Especially if you have the augment summoning feat...

shadowsaun
10-27-2010, 12:57 PM
you know I like the Knight because he will say with me in the aura a lot. Cant kill when always heal.

And also, even if its a graphics bug, the SS, BS, Blur animation on some of the summons make them look cooler, like the air ele or fire ele