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fuzzy1guy
10-10-2010, 05:09 AM
Slays one living enemy. Those that succeed on a Fortitude save instead take 3d6 plus 1 additional damage per caster level.


Instead of a save doing almost no damage. (joke damage with the hyper inflated monster hp we have.)

How about a 3 second stun effect? (non auto-crit style stun)



:eek: Holy hell! that guy almost killed me! I can't believe it! :eek:



Not over powered. Fits the idea of the spell a little more. And a 3 second pause is at least something noticable.

Matuse
10-10-2010, 05:17 AM
Yes, overpowered. A 3 second stun (which means auto-crit) is just the same as instant death vs player melee.

Vellrad
10-10-2010, 05:40 AM
Yes, overpowered. A 3 second stun (which means auto-crit) is just the same as instant death vs player melee.

Read again:


(non auto-crit style stun)

fuzzy1guy
10-10-2010, 06:03 AM
Yes, overpowered. A 3 second stun (which means auto-crit) is just the same as instant death vs player melee.

There are already stuns that are not auto-crit. Sap, Soundburst, Sonic blast, Electric Loop, Symbol of Stunning, ect...

And thats entirely beside the point. I specifically stated NON AUTO CRIT.



(non auto-crit style stun)
If it will help, pretend i didn't use the word stun at all... I really said 'stand there and do nothing at all for 3 seconds'.

KillEveryone
10-10-2010, 09:20 AM
There are already stuns that are not auto-crit. Sap, Soundburst, Sonic blast, Electric Loop, Symbol of Stunning, ect...

And thats entirely beside the point. I specifically stated NON AUTO CRIT.



If it will help, pretend i didn't use the word stun at all... I really said 'stand there and do nothing at all for 3 seconds'.

Symbol of stunning is auto-crit. Unless they changed things or someone has informed me incorrectly.

BurningDownTheHouse
10-10-2010, 09:25 AM
Symbol of stunning is auto-crit. Unless they changed things or someone has informed me incorrectly.

They didn't change things and you were informed incorrectly.

Matuse
10-10-2010, 02:50 PM
Ok, even in a non-autocrit situation, it's still an automatic stun which will stop any spellcasting the monster may be involved in, and make it harmless for however long the stunning effect lasts.

So assuming you pass the SR check (if any), there are 2 outcomes:
1) Monster is instantly killed.
2) Monster is halted/paralyzed/whatever

That's -far- too good. Even if the spell fails, it still has an extremely useful benefit. It shouldn't. The benefit of a failed save is already plenty good enough.

strider-36
10-10-2010, 03:31 PM
My 2 coppers:

The visualization of the finger of death as described in some of the original books was a super-concentrated beam of negative energy, roughly 1cm in diameter, emitted from the casters index finger.

The concept of the save for this spell was not "Wow! i resisted the magic"
but rather "Hey Caster.... you missed :P"
The slight damage i feel is more appropriate in this instance much like a bullet of a gun may graze it's target causing a slight amount of damage.
The stunning effect would not be likely much as person who has been grazed by a bullet might not be aware that anything has happend because of other pressing things (Like fighting for ones life).

As far as game play goes 3 sec is a looooong time and a decent DPS fighter/ranger/pally can put a world of hurt in that time frame. I think that it unbalances what should be an all or nothing type spell. IMHO

FlyingTurtle
10-10-2010, 03:36 PM
The concept of the save for this spell was not "Wow! i resisted the magic"
but rather "Hey Caster.... you missed :P"


Nope. It'd be a reflex save if that was the case. It's a fort save, so it really is, "Wow, I resisted the magic." The super-concentrated beam of negative energy attempts to shut down your living functions. If you survive the attempt, you take minor damage. Think of it as surviving something like a defibrillator blast: either your heart stops (byebye cruel world), or it doesn't and you just take some minor system shock.

fuzzy1guy
10-10-2010, 03:48 PM
Just saved vs. one of the most powerful instant death spells. (and the most powerful single target death spell in ddo) An attack directly at their fortitude..

I think that'd make them pause for a second or two...

As for 3 seconds being a long time.... Hell we get lag spikes twice that long almost regularly now. 5 second lag is now the norm in most raids on the weekend. (at least for the old and busted thelanis server)

Bottom line is in d&d and other d&d games such as baldurs gate, neverwinter ect... you could chip down an enemy that was making their save vs. death with just the damage. In DDO thats not going to happen since the damage put out is a joke compared to the inflated mob hitpoints we have. Right now the 'or some damage' part of this spell is entirely pointless and sure isnt in line at all with what it's intended to be.. One of the most powerful single target necromancy spells there is.

Right now it's death. Or nothing. And the or nothing should be something at least SLIGHTLY noticable.


Actually i'd favor putting the 'or some damage' damage back into line where it belongs by accounting for our insane ddo mob hp. At least triple those current numbers we get. Maybe more..

FlyingTurtle
10-10-2010, 04:17 PM
Actually i'd favor putting the 'or some damage' damage back into line where it belongs by accounting for our insane ddo mob hp. At least triple those current numbers we get. Maybe more..

The weighted damage dice are supposed to reflect that, being an effective 150% boost over PnP.

Pugsley
10-10-2010, 04:20 PM
The weighted damage dice are supposed to reflect that, being an effective 150% boost over PnP.

Except that monster HP is inflated to something closer to 1000%.

fuzzy1guy
10-10-2010, 07:31 PM
Either way.... the save damage is nothing in ddo. it may as well not even exist.

And it's supposed to be SOME damage. 1/8th their hp or so it seems like from other dnd stuffs.

Matuse
10-10-2010, 10:36 PM
The spell is perfectly fine the way it is. Honestly, take the fact that it hasn't been MONUMENTALLY nerfed (just like Phantasmal Killer was) and be happy about it.

Any improvement to this already immensely powerful spell is simply never going to happen. Nor should it.

Jaid314
10-11-2010, 12:36 AM
phantasmal killer was nerfed? when... it's always had 2 saves in PnP...

CrescentCalling_5
10-11-2010, 08:28 AM
This is turning into a warzone...

cool!

/popcorn.

Legohaiden
10-11-2010, 08:36 AM
Finger of death was never ment to be a super damaging spell once resisted.


You resisted it... you didnt DIE... you win! the damage is supposed to be trivial.



kinda like "OMG im Alive! hahaha!" :)



to put a 3 second stun on this... even if it wasnt autocrit would make it super overpowered.


Caster has FoD on his bar... knows for a fact hes either 1. Killing the enemy, or 2. Halting it for 3 seconds so melee can kill it.

Because if you play casters normally, putting a shiny spinning circle over an enemies head is like Melee Bait... they will swarm to it. and in 3 seconds a whole lot of damage can be applied by 3 or 4 melee guys.