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View Full Version : Are people still interested in changing the xp slope for TRs?



redoubt
10-09-2010, 01:03 AM
I'm not even talking about the total required. Just the very exponetial character of the slope.

I thought I read a few people talk about it before. Could a simple change to the math formula be done? Would it be a good thing?

For example:

approx 3.14mil xp for the first tr. 1.9mil for regular. Thats 165% of normal. So...

Level 1 (5000 normal) x 1.65 = 8250
level 2 (20k normal) x 1.65 = 33000
...
level 19 (1.71mil norm) x 1.65 = 2.82 mil
level 20 (1.9mil norm) x 1.65 = 3.14mil

Under the current scaling the gap from 19-20 is 370,500xp.
With a more linear scale the gap drops to 320,000xp.

Its not a huge change, but it would shift the xp burden slightly toward the lower quests and would make the leveling process a little more even in terms of perceived advancement.

I've not done the math yet (and its late) but I think the exponetial scale is even worse for the second TR and something like this might be nice.

Your thoughts?

Benjai
10-09-2010, 01:04 AM
Actually its nice that the xp is backended. Once you hit 17 you can relax a bit and get xp from raiding and flagging for endgame raids and stuff.

Angellica
10-09-2010, 01:08 AM
No. I hate grinding xp as much as the next guy and i have 2 TRs. But it needs to cost something. It is taking me way longer to grind 19-20 this time, but it has to mean something.

Natashaelle
10-09-2010, 01:17 AM
I don't mind the extra XP required, the only thing I'd like to see is more quests, to make gaining those XP less of a repetitious grind than at present... :)

Angellica
10-09-2010, 01:19 AM
I agree with the more quests. Grinding the same ones over and over really sucks. I hit my bricks around level 10 and 16ish.

Ybbald
10-09-2010, 10:30 AM
I don't mind the extra XP required, the only thing I'd like to see is more quests, to make gaining those XP less of a repetitious grind than at present... :)


I agree with the more quests. Grinding the same ones over and over really sucks. I hit my bricks around level 10 and 16ish.

I don't have the link, but apparently the devs are done with making new low lvl packs and are going to produce new content "CR 12" and higher for awhile

elujin
10-09-2010, 10:35 AM
yes i heard that too devs are going to focus +lvl 12 quest now

redoubt
10-09-2010, 05:28 PM
No. I hate grinding xp as much as the next guy and i have 2 TRs. But it needs to cost something. It is taking me way longer to grind 19-20 this time, but it has to mean something.

I'm not sure why you say that. I'm not asking for it to cost less, though the one completionist I know of did ask for that.

I just floated the idea of making it a little less back end loaded. The total xp required would be the same. Part of the thought behind it is that there are many more low quests than high ones and a derth in the 15ish range.

Now, if they are going to add some more in the 12-16 range, that'd be great too!

I just know that even on my second TR (of the same char) I'm out leveling the quests, but I realize I still have to run a lot of them even though i'm several levels higher because I will hit the null around quests of level 15. (Yes, this is a preference thing, I"m trying to not run any quest more than three times (n/h/e) to help stave off boredom.)

Anyway, more quests in the 12+ range will help this issue anyway.

Pugsley
10-10-2010, 01:40 PM
Generally, exponential anything in a video game doesn't work well.

I think they should throw out the tables altogether and just give TR characters a flat -X% xp penalty in all quests. That's actually how I assumed it worked when I heard about it.

It would scale perfectly at any level, even if epic levels are added at some point down the road.

sirgog
10-10-2010, 02:03 PM
Generally, exponential anything in a video game doesn't work well.

I think they should throw out the tables altogether and just give TR characters a flat -X% xp penalty in all quests. That's actually how I assumed it worked when I heard about it.

It would scale perfectly at any level, even if epic levels are added at some point down the road.

It's not exponential, it's cubic. (Non-TRs are quadratic).

The base quadratic XP system could easily be extended to 22 or 23. IMO 34 point builds should be treated as two levels higher for XP purposes (so you need 2.31 million to cap, and if you are a level 11 in a dungeon, the game treats you as a level 13 for all purposes - powerlevelling penalties, 'you get -x% XP for being Y levels over the dungeon level', 'you can't enter this dungeon until level 8' or 'you can't play this on Epic until level 20' etc. (36 pointers would be +3 levels).

That way, instead of a level 17 twice TR'ed character being encouraged by the game to run Rainbow in the Dark on normal ten times for one rank, they'd instead be encouraged to run Monastery of the Scorpion on Elite once or twice. Rainbow normal isn't a challenge for a twice TR'ed level 17 - Monastery Elite sure as hell is.

Pugsley
10-10-2010, 02:47 PM
It's not exponential, it's cubic. (Non-TRs are quadratic).

The base quadratic XP system could easily be extended to 22 or 23. IMO 34 point builds should be treated as two levels higher for XP purposes (so you need 2.31 million to cap, and if you are a level 11 in a dungeon, the game treats you as a level 13 for all purposes - powerlevelling penalties, 'you get -x% XP for being Y levels over the dungeon level', 'you can't enter this dungeon until level 8' or 'you can't play this on Epic until level 20' etc. (36 pointers would be +3 levels).

That way, instead of a level 17 twice TR'ed character being encouraged by the game to run Rainbow in the Dark on normal ten times for one rank, they'd instead be encouraged to run Monastery of the Scorpion on Elite once or twice. Rainbow normal isn't a challenge for a twice TR'ed level 17 - Monastery Elite sure as hell is.

I never went past Algebra I, so to me "exponential" really just means "rising at an ever-accelerating rate."

Can you pretty please explain cubic and quadratic to the liberal arts majors?

sirgog
10-10-2010, 07:32 PM
I never went past Algebra I, so to me "exponential" really just means "rising at an ever-accelerating rate."

Can you pretty please explain cubic and quadratic to the liberal arts majors?

Linear rises in a straight line (like the equation y=x). Example: level 1 100000 XP, level 2 200000 XP, level 20 2m XP.

Quadratic rises like the equation y=x^2. Example: level 1 5k XP, level 2 20k XP, level 3 45k XP, level 20 2m XP.

Cubic rises like the equation y=x^3. Example: level 1 250 XP, level 2 2k XP, level 3 6750 XP, level 20 2m XP.

How you categorize the 'order' of a function depends solely on what would happen if you extended it 'almost' to level infinity - and at that point, the cubic term in the TR formulae dominates.

phalaeo
10-10-2010, 07:37 PM
Linear rises in a straight line (like the equation y=x). Example: level 1 100000 XP, level 2 200000 XP, level 20 2m XP.

Quadratic rises like the equation y=x^2. Example: level 1 5k XP, level 2 20k XP, level 3 45k XP, level 20 2m XP.

Cubic rises like the equation y=x^3. Example: level 1 250 XP, level 2 2k XP, level 3 6750 XP, level 20 2m XP.

How you categorize the 'order' of a function depends solely on what would happen if you extended it 'almost' to level infinity - and at that point, the cubic term in the TR formulae dominates.

This Liberal Arts major still doesn't get it. :rolleyes:

I get totals and grind though, and I'd like to see a *slightly* lessened XP requirement for TRs. I think the first TR reqs are ok, but the second are ridiculous- I'm not interested in ever doing a second TR with how the reqs are currently.

sirgog
10-10-2010, 07:45 PM
This Liberal Arts major still doesn't get it. :rolleyes:

I get totals and grind though, and I'd like to see a *slightly* lessened XP requirement for TRs. I think the first TR reqs are ok, but the second are ridiculous- I'm not interested in ever doing a second TR with how the reqs are currently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadratic_equation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubic_function

Oh and back on topic - I've started my first 36 pointer recently. It's grindy and not fun. Levelling them is a chore rather than a challenge.

Lorien_the_First_One
10-10-2010, 07:50 PM
I'm not even talking about the total required. Just the very exponetial character of the slope.

Worst idea I've heard in a very long time. It even competes with the PvP ones but a user who shall go unnamed.

The nice thing about the current curve is it gets you back up to where most classes start to get fun, mid levels, quickly. I do not want to spend 65% more time as a L1, 2, 3, 4, etc. Most TRs shoot pretty quickly up to L10 where they start having builds that are more fun (especially MC ones) and where the equipment they can start twinking with starts to get really good. Plus, as things stand, you don't really get steep until L16 and by then you are at least back raiding with you guild again.

They did the curve the right way.

They just need more high end quests and/or adjust the silly low xp/min of most of the Shav so that you can get those very long L16-20 levels out.

Lithic
10-10-2010, 08:01 PM
I'm not sure why you say that. I'm not asking for it to cost less, though the one completionist I know of did ask for that.


If you are talking about me, you must mean the suggestion to take on a 5% or 10% exp bonus to each past life, so that every other life becomes faster and faster to get. I still think it's a good idea, though it does go exactly against the diminishing returns pattern of most things in DDO. Obviously as someone going for a crapton of past lives, I'm biased.



As for the other suggestions, I'm all for making a TR less long, and more challenging. Upping the exp while farming elite quests would likely mean TRs would do everything on elite rather than normal x times, then h/e. Unfortunately right now, the exp gain going from normal to elite is only about +10% (not counting the first time bonus), and the time taken for completion is almost certainly more than +10% (more like +200%, or even +400% in some quests due to the necessity of not splitting up on elite). Personally during my TRs, the only quests I farm on elite are shadowknight and shadowcrypt. A few good ones I farm on hard (dead shall rise, maraud the mines, delera pt 2 & 4, etc), but usually only because I cap out on exp before I can farm them on normal the previous level and doing them on hard isn't significantly longer anyway.

For this reason, I suggested a while ago that the devs institute an automated program that changes the base exp of quests so that the average completion time results in a set amount of exp per minute (for a specific quest level). If hard and elite were taken to be seperate quests, then this would allow a quest that is super easy and fast on normal to provide quite a bit more reward on elite if the time to completion is 4x longer. It would also allow more variety, as all quests would give much closer xp/min ratios. Hold for reinforcements for example, being 15mins long, might provide 15k exp, instead of the 800 or so it does now, which would be much closer to the 2kxp/min that von3 provides. If someone were sick of von3 (guilty, ran it 15 times today), then they wouldn't balk at the idea of a 15k/15min hold for reinforcements. This would solve the boredom factor by both allowing TRs to get similar xp/min numbers with higher difficulties, but also allow them to choose to do quests which are currently not worth it.

sephiroth1084
10-10-2010, 08:28 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadratic_equation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubic_function

Oh and back on topic - I've started my first 36 pointer recently. It's grindy and not fun. Levelling them is a chore rather than a challenge.
Agreed.

articwarrior
10-10-2010, 08:34 PM
yes, xp slope should be dropped a bit, STUCK AT LVL 13 FOR GOD SAKES! also I had to use 5 10% xp pots just to get to lvl 13 :(:mad:

maddmatt70
10-10-2010, 08:36 PM
Well 17-20 on the second tr is really tough. They need more quests at the end game and I woul proabably shave off a couple hundred k xp at the end. Everything else I think is fine single tr are sufficient and the first 17 levels of the second seem fine to me.

sephiroth1084
10-10-2010, 08:56 PM
TR 1 was pretty reasonable, but TR 2 starts to get kind of rough around lvl 13 or 14 (wouldn't be as bad if more quests were available) and brutal at 17+ (needs to have to XP required lowered a bit).

Lithic
10-10-2010, 09:09 PM
Worst idea I've heard in a very long time. It even competes with the PvP ones but a user who shall go unnamed.

The nice thing about the current curve is it gets you back up to where most classes start to get fun, mid levels, quickly. I do not want to spend 65% more time as a L1, 2, 3, 4, etc. Most TRs shoot pretty quickly up to L10 where they start having builds that are more fun (especially MC ones) and where the equipment they can start twinking with starts to get really good. Plus, as things stand, you don't really get steep until L16 and by then you are at least back raiding with you guild again.

They did the curve the right way.

They just need more high end quests and/or adjust the silly low xp/min of most of the Shav so that you can get those very long L16-20 levels out.

At first glance what you say is true and I would tend to agree that getting greensteel ASAP is quite nice. Spending more exp at lvl 6-12 would mean less time at cap, unless you take into account how many really good exp quests there are at those levels. I usually use 1 or 2 quests for every level between 6 and 12, yet there are often 3-6 really good xp/min quests at those levels that could get me to cap much faster if I had the room. Here's my list, as well as other quests of that level that are better xp/min than many end game quests:

Level 6: Ghost of chance, Tomb of the immortal heart
Other good ones: Tangleroot pt 5a, 5b, 6a, 6b, lair of summoning, Deapths of darkness (Hard), depths of despair (hard)

Level 7: Bloody crypt, Ruined halls
Others: Redwillow,

Level 8: Tear of Dhakaan, Deleras Pt 2
Others: Gwylans Stand, Graverobber, I suspect 2 or 3 of the sentinals pack as well, but have yet to do them on a level appropriate character.

Level 9: Xorian Cypher, Delera's Pt 4 (hard usually)
Others: CO6 pt 2, Tomb of the shadow king, Stromvauld's mine, VON2, Haunted Library,

Level 10: VON3, VON4
Others: CO6 pt 3, Library of threnal, possibly 2 or 3 of the red fens, again haven't done them level appropriate yet

Level 11: Tomb of the Shadowknight (elite)
Others: CO6 pt 5 & 6, VON5, Escort the Expedition, Chamber of Rahmat

Level 12: Shadow Crypt (Elite), Dead shall rise
Others: Purge the fallen shrine, Tomb of the Blighted, Tomb of the Tormented, Dreams of insanity, chamber of Kourush, Offering of blood

Level 13: Chamber of Raiyum, Maraud the Mines (Hard)
Others: Invaders!, ADQ1,

As you can see, for the most part you could easily get over 50% more exp farming just the ones listed under "Others". These listed quests are all better exp/min than Amrath, or even IQ/DD, and especially better than 4 of the 5 vale quests. If I can get 1k xp/min for 500k exp at the mid levels, instead of 500xp/min for 500kexp at the end game, that saves me 500mins, or almost 9 hours. For me, that means saving 9% or so of my playtime to cap a TR2+ (takes me 90-120 hours).

In a true time sense (measured in hours), a lowered exp curve might actually mean you get to cap faster (hours, days, or even weeks faster depending on how you play).

BlackSteel
10-10-2010, 09:29 PM
Level 12: Shadow Crypt (Elite), Dead shall rise
Others: Purge the fallen shrine, Tomb of the Blighted, Tomb of the Tormented, Dreams of insanity, chamber of Kourush, Offering of blood

Level 13: Chamber of Raiyum, Maraud the Mines (Hard)
Others: Invaders!, ADQ1,


ten to 12 is my favorite level range on my double+ TR's. not b/c of GS ( I barely use it) but for all the other ml 11 raid loot. That and the quests are just awesome fun. I'll typically hold each level here until I've farmed out each of the good quests, which means by the time I finish with the desert I'm about to hit 15 and above 2 million exp before even thinking about gianthold. This number could easily be another 500k worth of exp if levels 5-10 didnt go by so fast.

sephiroth1084
10-10-2010, 09:40 PM
ten to 12 is my favorite level range on my double+ TR's. not b/c of GS ( I barely use it) but for all the other ml 11 raid loot. That and the quests are just awesome fun. I'll typically hold each level here until I've farmed out each of the good quests, which means by the time I finish with the desert I'm about to hit 15 and above 2 million exp before even thinking about gianthold. This number could easily be another 500k worth of exp if levels 5-10 didnt go by so fast.
Sure, if you hold levels for a long time and grind the **** out of the best XP/min quests TRing isn't abysmal, but I dislike that this seems to be the only way to level a TR 2 with any sort of speed.

redoubt
10-10-2010, 11:57 PM
Worst idea I've heard in a very long time. It even competes with the PvP ones but a user who shall go unnamed..

Wow. I ask about a potential minor change to see if people are interested (still) and this is the reply. I hope your day gets better, because it looks like you are having a bad one. I just can't image that sort of personal attack if you were not. Again, I hope your day improves.




The nice thing about the current curve is it gets you back up to where most classes start to get fun, mid levels, quickly. I do not want to spend 65% more time as a L1, 2, 3, 4, etc. Most TRs shoot pretty quickly up to L10 where they start having builds that are more fun (especially MC ones) and where the equipment they can start twinking with starts to get really good. Plus, as things stand, you don't really get steep until L16 and by then you are at least back raiding with you guild again.

They did the curve the right way.

They just need more high end quests and/or adjust the silly low xp/min of most of the Shav so that you can get those very long L16-20 levels out.

Don't forget the curve is not linear even for the first life. The way TRs do it now, the curve accelerates faster. My suggestion (or repost of a suggestion) was to follow the original curve, but boosted more evenly (less accelerated.)

True the first TR is fast and you get the twink gear quicker. The second TR doesn't take that long either. And if you are looking for your GS gear, I don't think you see a large difference in the time it takes to get it.

Looking at the numbers I posted its only a 50k difference in gap between levels 19-20 by switching to a straight mulitplier. Again, only a minor mod.

Now its cool that we diagree. Thats all part of it and just fine. I happen to enjoy a lot of the lower level content and that is where all the new stuff is right now. After spending forever capped at 16 I'm pretty tired of the quests in that level. You don't like the low stuff and want blitz back to the high stuff quickly. No problem. I doubt they will make the change anyway. i was just curious what people thought.

Thanks for dropping in and sharing your opinion on the matter.

Again, hope your day/week gets better. :D

redoubt
10-11-2010, 12:05 AM
If you are talking about me, you must mean the suggestion to take on a 5% or 10% exp bonus to each past life, so that every other life becomes faster and faster to get. I still think it's a good idea, though it does go exactly against the diminishing returns pattern of most things in DDO. Obviously as someone going for a crapton of past lives, I'm biased.

.

Yes, I was remembering your post.

I've thought of this a few times while mowing the yard (mind wanders you know). I'm guessing this is where the idea came from. I just didn't want to suggest lowering as I've not done enough TRs to really vote on it yet (two first TRs back to cap and at level 13 on my first double TR is all.)

I do think your idea is interesting. You still have to push over the big hill, but then it slowly becomes easier.

Even at 10% bonus you need about 12 past lives (after the first 2) to get to +120% or 220% of normal earned to be back to the spend of a normal leveling character. (Based on approx 2.25 times the xp required for a double TR.)

Anyway, its nice to have a Star drop in to my thread. Thanks! :D

p.s.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Experience_points_after_Reincarnation(s)?useskin=s parseman

There is the link to see a nice graph of the three xp curves.

Cetus
10-11-2010, 11:26 AM
I wouldn't mind just raising the amount of xp allowed until you are forced to level. The issue I run into every life is that I get forced to level at a point where I have to start farming stuff on hard instead of normal.

Why can't I just earn suprathreshold xp as much as I want? I think it would make it fairly easier to take advantage of all the great mid level xp quests in preparation for the 1 million xp required between 18-20.

Significantly raising the xp in places like bastion of power and E3 should also be pushed.

Not to mention making the completionist feat free =] (had to stick that in there)

Thrudh
10-11-2010, 12:15 PM
My only problem with TR exp is that they have created a system where you pretty much HAVE to take the easy road...

TRs are powerful with all their twink gear, past-life feats, and knowledge of quests...

Yet you CANNOT challenge yourself...

You MUST run quests at or BELOW level because you have to save the exp...

I could take on Vale quests on normal or Gianthold quests on elite at 13 as a nice challenge, but instead I'm running Wiz King on normal because I HAVE to save the exp in Gianthold and Vale for later (when they will be trivial as well)

There is zero challenge when TRing... It's just a long grind of easy quests...

Thrudh
10-11-2010, 12:22 PM
Instead of requiring more exp to level...

I say experience should be the same, but we should have to run every quest at our level on hard before being allowed to level

So say you have enough experience to make level 11 (normal amount of exp), but you cannot level to 12 until you've run every 11th level quest on hard.

Say you're 16th level... You cannot level up until you've run every 16th level quest on hard.

Exclude raids if you want.

Maybe make TR2 require elite... :)

Probably not a workable idea, but it would get us running all the quests in the game (instead of just high exp/min ones) and make TRing a CHALLENGE, instead of a boring cake-walk.

MrCow
10-11-2010, 12:26 PM
I say experience should be the same, but we should have to run every quest at our level on hard before being allowed to level

So say you have enough experience to make level 11 (normal amount of exp), but you cannot level to 12 until you've run every 11th level quest on hard.

Say you're 16th level... You cannot level up until you've run every 16th level quest on hard.

And for True Reincarnates that only own a very small set of purchased content?

Minor_Threat
10-11-2010, 12:35 PM
why fix what ain't broke?, it's a bit late in the game to start "fixing" something like this.

jkm
10-11-2010, 12:42 PM
My only problem with TR exp is that they have created a system where you pretty much HAVE to take the easy road...

TRs are powerful with all their twink gear, past-life feats, and knowledge of quests...

Yet you CANNOT challenge yourself...

You MUST run quests at or BELOW level because you have to save the exp...

I could take on Vale quests on normal or Gianthold quests on elite at 13 as a nice challenge, but instead I'm running Wiz King on normal because I HAVE to save the exp in Gianthold and Vale for later (when they will be trivial as well)

There is zero challenge when TRing... It's just a long grind of easy quests...

wait a minute, didn't you say this was a good thing 6 months ago?

i believe one of my suggestions then was to bring back the under quest level bonus for TRs. if TRs can do crucible on elite at level 10, then let them. give them a 100% bonus on XP (6 levels under quest level) and call it good. this would at least allow mutliple paths to level as a TR instead of every TR grinding the exact same quests.

Thrudh
10-11-2010, 12:48 PM
And for True Reincarnates that only own a very small set of purchased content?

Ah good point...

Forgot we're not all VIP...

And I was all excited about my idea... Finally a reason to see LFMs for ALL quests, and not just those running Deleras 2 eight times in a row.

:(

Cyr
10-11-2010, 12:49 PM
Instead of requiring more exp to level...

I say experience should be the same, but we should have to run every quest at our level on hard before being allowed to level

So say you have enough experience to make level 11 (normal amount of exp), but you cannot level to 12 until you've run every 11th level quest on hard.

Say you're 16th level... You cannot level up until you've run every 16th level quest on hard.

Exclude raids if you want.

Maybe make TR2 require elite... :)

Probably not a workable idea, but it would get us running all the quests in the game (instead of just high exp/min ones) and make TRing a CHALLENGE, instead of a boring cake-walk.

This is the best idea I have seen posted about TR's for a while.

It is simple and elegent.

I would change it slightly however...

All TR's now require the normal non-TR xp to level, but can not level until they complete until they 'prove their worth'.

TR1+ require 10 quests at level be completed on hard or all quests available at that level.
TR2+ requires 10 quests at level + 1 quest per TR over 2 be completed on elite or all quests available at that level.

This would provide a system that does not get 'harder' as the developers come out with more content (so no easy button for early adopters) except in the cases of level ranges with very few quests currently.

This would also have the good side effect of having a wider variety of quests run and encourage sales to premium players.

Cyr
10-11-2010, 12:58 PM
And for True Reincarnates that only own a very small set of purchased content?

Well ignoring that Turbine wants to make money for the moment we could allow an alternative grind heavy option at each level as follows....

If you did not 'prove your eliteness' by running stuff on the harder difficulties at each level you can cash in excess xp that you have earned equal to the amount required currently for the TR of that level. This of course would require that you be able to earn xp over the existing limit of +2 levels -1 xp. This excess xp you cash in to bypass a level's requirements is deleted from your total.

This way you can always opt for the grind option, but there is still an incentive to do less grind and more challenging quests.

geoffhanna
10-11-2010, 01:22 PM
Please oh lawdy please do something about the last three levels of a 3rd-time (or later) TR.

Especially the last level. Ai yi yi.

taurean430
10-11-2010, 01:31 PM
wait a minute, didn't you say this was a good thing 6 months ago?

i believe one of my suggestions then was to bring back the under quest level bonus for TRs. if TRs can do crucible on elite at level 10, then let them. give them a 100% bonus on XP (6 levels under quest level) and call it good. this would at least allow mutliple paths to level as a TR instead of every TR grinding the exact same quests.

This.

I'll add that the lowering of xp in Gianthold questing really sticks in my craw. It's bad enough for me personally to have to run the quests to begin with. But to have to run all of them on n/n/n/h/e to avoid the barren wasteland of available xp throws me in fits when I TR a toon.

Pugsley
10-11-2010, 07:02 PM
Just make the repetition penalty reset after a week, like chests. Or make it a month, whatever. Just so people can't get stuck.

redoubt
10-11-2010, 08:04 PM
Someone posted about banking more xp.

That seems like it would allow the fast burners to continue as they are now AND allow folks taking a more leisurely trip to hit more quests or wait on a level for a friend on the way up without being forced to take levels before they want to.

How much more would be the question I suppose. I'm sure there would be too many ways to abuse infinate hoarding of xp, but some extra would be nice.

Maybe one extra level per 4-5 character levels?

Start with the ability to go 1 over (as it is now). Then go to two over once you train level 5, then 3 over once you train level 10 and finally 4 over once you train level 15.

Not sure why you'd want to hoard that much xp once you get to level 15, but it would provide options. Now I'm sure there's a hole in this somewhere... discuss. :D

QuantumFX
10-11-2010, 08:23 PM
Damn you MrCow! I was really starting to enjoy Thrudh’s idea until you ruined it! ;)

My biggest fear about “Focusing on high level content” is that Turbine will add 2-3 updates of 12-14 content. Then 2-3 updates of 14-16 content. Then 2-3 updates of 16-20 content. This means that their worst area for XP won’t even be addressed until 13-14 months from now.

I still think the best idea I have ever heard for this dilemma is for Turbine to implement ECL (Effective Character Levels). (Basically for all XP purposes a 34pt character is considered to be 1 level higher than they actually are and 36pt builds are considered +2.) It hits TR’s in a way that encourages them to challenge themselves with higher difficulties or slightly higher level quests.

redoubt
10-11-2010, 10:50 PM
Damn you MrCow! I was really starting to enjoy Thrudh’s idea until you ruined it! ;)

My biggest fear about “Focusing on high level content” is that Turbine will add 2-3 updates of 12-14 content. Then 2-3 updates of 14-16 content. Then 2-3 updates of 16-20 content. This means that their worst area for XP won’t even be addressed until 13-14 months from now.

I still think the best idea I have ever heard for this dilemma is for Turbine to implement ECL (Effective Character Levels). (Basically for all XP purposes a 34pt character is considered to be 1 level higher than they actually are and 36pt builds are considered +2.) It hits TR’s in a way that encourages them to challenge themselves with higher difficulties or slightly higher level quests.

I'm not opposed to this in concept. My concern is that I'm already forced to level before I complete all the quests n/h/e. If we combine with the ability to hold more xp before being forced to level I'd feel better about it.

This also mean that we'd spend more time doing higher level quests. This is where the hardest leveling is already. I'm not sure how to counter the xp required with doing the vale etc earlier.

Third, how would this relate to other characters? Do we suddenly nerf the rest of the groups xp? i.e. could a level 10 double TR group with other level 10s, or do you have to group with level 12s?

karnokvolrath
10-11-2010, 11:07 PM
To me the scaling is fine, what is bad is the complete lack of 16-20 content.

Specifically 17-18 non raid content. (Do not confuze this is me not wanting another raid 1st).

They keep coming out with new low lvl/epic stuff and thats all good and dandy but doesnt help tring much.

vVAnjilaVv
10-11-2010, 11:50 PM
Not bashing or being judgmental with this question, just very curious to know......do a lot of people invest a lot of time in slayer caps for TRx2's and beyond?

MrCow
10-12-2010, 12:01 AM
just very curious to know......do a lot of people invest a lot of time in slayer caps for TRx2's and beyond?

Personally, no. I invest very little time and effort into explorer area based EXP. I generally have around 10 kills on Korthos, 55 in Waterworks, 10 in Cerulean Hills, 0 in Searing Heights, 0 in Three Barrel Cove, 40 in Sorrowdusk, 0 in Ataraxia, 10/25/50 in the Sands, 25/0/25 in Gianthold, 70 in the Orchard, 25/25 in the Vale, 150 in the Refuge, and 30 in Shavarath.

QuantumFX
10-12-2010, 02:00 AM
Third, how would this relate to other characters? Do we suddenly nerf the rest of the groups xp? i.e. could a level 10 double TR group with other level 10s, or do you have to group with level 12s?

Yes. For the purposes of grouping a 36pt build would be considered a level 12 character. (If you’re a P&P player - it’s the same rules as rolling up a monster as a PC.) Also you would need 780,000XP to become level 11.


do a lot of people invest a lot of time in slayer caps for TRx2's and beyond?

I tend to go for Explorers and Rares and whatever slayers I get along the way is considered a bonus. Though it would be kind of cool if killing stuff in the associated quests added to your slayer totals. (ex. Add the kill count for Offering of Blood to your Slayer total for the drow in the desert.)

Natashaelle
10-12-2010, 05:20 AM
Not bashing or being judgmental with this question, just very curious to know......do a lot of people invest a lot of time in slayer caps for TRx2's and beyond?

I was doing so on Keeper, but that server was very underpopulated, so there wasn't really much other choice for about levels 16+ than grab slayers xp as part of the levelling process.

Bacab
10-12-2010, 05:22 AM
I like the idea.

Just have it scale from the start.

*or*

Release more level 16-20 content.

Noctus
10-12-2010, 08:48 AM
I'm not even talking about the total required. Just the very exponetial character of the slope.

I thought I read a few people talk about it before. Could a simple change to the math formula be done? Would it be a good thing?

For example:

approx 3.14mil xp for the first tr. 1.9mil for regular. Thats 165% of normal. So...

Level 1 (5000 normal) x 1.65 = 8250
level 2 (20k normal) x 1.65 = 33000
...
level 19 (1.71mil norm) x 1.65 = 2.82 mil
level 20 (1.9mil norm) x 1.65 = 3.14mil

Under the current scaling the gap from 19-20 is 370,500xp.
With a more linear scale the gap drops to 320,000xp.

Its not a huge change, but it would shift the xp burden slightly toward the lower quests and would make the leveling process a little more even in terms of perceived advancement.

I've not done the math yet (and its late) but I think the exponetial scale is even worse for the second TR and something like this might be nice.

Your thoughts?



/signed.