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View Full Version : Idea to increase the use of more weapons



Renvar
10-06-2010, 04:34 PM
I've seen a lot of threads here and talk in game about how Khopesh is the top DPS one handed weapon with the Dwarven Axe and Scimitar right behind if you are a dwarf or elf respectively.

This seems to lead to everyone running around with Khopeshes and very little variation in weapon type used by most players. This gets boring after a while and many players I talk to would like to use a variety of different weapons on different toons, but don't want to give up the DPS just for some asthetic or RP feel.

I've seen several ideas to "fix" this including:

Nerf Khopesh - Lower crit range or multiplier. - In my opinion this is a bad idea. The Khopesh is exotic and costs a feat to get. It should be a bit above the martial/simple weapons. It's costing you something to get it. It makes sense there would be a return on that investment.

Lower the cost or increase the benefit of the racial weapons enhancements - go to +4/+4 instead of +2/+2 and/or lower the ap cost from 2/4 to 1/2 or 1/2/3 with a third tier. - This is a better idea, but that only helps the 6-7 weapons that have racial lines. There are a bunch of other weapons that exist that never get used because they have inferior stats and no racial line to balance it.

To create flexibility and diversity so that people could pick any weapon type they want rather than huddling around 3-4 weapons (khopesh, d-axe, scimitar, g-axe) Maybe offer the following feat:

Martial/Simple Weapon Mastery (For any single martial or simple weapon ONLY. Must have proficiency with said item already either through class or racial to take it) - You have mastered this weapon's use in battle through intense practice and experience. +1 to crit range with this weapon or +1 to crit multiplier (not sure which you would go with here...have to run numbers to see how balanced each would be)

You would have to spend a feat on it, just like others spend a feat getting khopesh.

That would even out the cost to the build and even out the value of each item. Take the battleaxe. It could go from 1d8/20x3 to 1d8/19-20x3 (the same as the khopesh)

or the Warhammer. Current line: 1d8/20x3. With proposed feat taken: 1d8/19-20x3.

Now if you want to up your dps for the cost of 1 feat, you can use a khopesh, warhammer, or a battleaxe. Same DPS result, but more weapons choices.

If you choose not to spend the feat, you get the normal version of the stats line. Just like if you wield khopeshes without the feat, you get a reduced effectiveness (-4 to hit).

The feat would only apply to the specific weapon you selected (Battleaxe, warhammer, dagger, club, mace, etc). You could only take it for a particular weapon type once, but you could take it more than once for different weapons.

Whether it boosts the crit multiplier or the crit range would need to be analyzed and may actually differ based on the weapon to create a more powerful, but not overpowered result.

The goal is NOT to create a new situation like we have now where one weapon is clearly superior it's just weapon X now instead of Khopesh. That would just create a storm of complaints about how everyone bought and crafted khopeshes and now they are sub-optimal. Khopesh would need to remain at least equal to the other options.

Ok. Time for feedback. Flame on... :)

khaldan
10-06-2010, 04:39 PM
Every heavy pick is Deathnip!

Huzzah!

Really though, that's going to be the main problem. Heavy picks will become automatically better than khopeshes due to the deathnip range.

If you can solve that, it seems like a good idea, though.

Cauthey
10-06-2010, 04:43 PM
That seems like a lot of redux work...

Why not just sponsor some kind of short term regalia event?

"Sickle Scare Week! For the week of xx/xx, all sickles offer a +3 untyped bonus to intimidate, and a +1 untyped bonus to damage. Get your scary sickles equipped!"

That seems a lot easier that reworking everything. :D

Renvar
10-06-2010, 04:44 PM
Every heavy pick is Deathnip!

Huzzah!

Really though, that's going to be the main problem. Heavy picks will become automatically better than khopeshes due to the deathnip range.

If you can solve that, it seems like a good idea, though.

Maybe you need to exclude certain weapons that are already considered on par or close to on par with the khopesh. Or give a different benefit. Maybe just a +1 or +2 to base damage. I thought of the heavy pick as I was writing this. The extreme crit multiplier that already exists would be a challenge for this particular weapon.

I also avoided mentioning any 2 handed weapons examples specifically due to the impact on the THF vs. TWF debate and the differences in strength bonuses and PA bonuses and crit multipliers. Changes to the 2 handed weapons crit features get magnified.

I'm not saying what the feat benefit should be specifically. The developers would have to look at each weapon individually. I just think a feat could be made available that would increase the dps of the martial/simple weapons that are currently suboptimal.

Drakos
10-06-2010, 04:48 PM
/not signed.

I just can'g get behind the Idea that to 'Fix' a problem introduced by one item you change everything else instead of just fixing that item. The Kopesh should be 19-20/x2 with a bonus to trip as in the source material.

Renvar
10-06-2010, 04:59 PM
/not signed.

I just can'g get behind the Idea that to 'Fix' a problem introduced by one item you change everything else instead of just fixing that item. The Kopesh should be 19-20/x2 with a bonus to trip as in the source material.

Yeah. But, that's not going to happen. You nerf the Khopesh and all those people who crafted 3 or more double supreme shard Green steels are going to flip out.

I was trying to come up with an idea that might actually be do-able without causing mass hysteria.

grodon9999
10-06-2010, 05:01 PM
+4 to-hit/damage on the racial weapons is much less broken than this proposed idea.

Drakos
10-06-2010, 05:06 PM
Yeah. But, that's not going to happen. You nerf the Khopesh and all those people who crafted 3 or more double supreme shard Green steels are going to flip out.

I was trying to come up with an idea that might actually be do-able without causing mass hysteria.
Generally I agree that adjustments to the Kopesh are unlikely to happen. I am redisent to say "never" because as we have seen with U5 and the upcomming U7, the Devs are willing to make changes that upset it's players, presumably for the betterment of the game.

I am still against this idea because it enforces/enhances power creep in the game.

ArtosKincaid
10-06-2010, 05:07 PM
+4 to-hit/damage on the racial weapons is much less broken than this proposed idea.

But only works for those racial weapons, which doesn't really fix the problem. With the racial enhancements, it's already close enough that you can justify not buying Khopesh on non-humans with that enhancement.