PDA

View Full Version : New vision of Arcane Archer



Requiro
09-29-2010, 07:28 AM
First of all I what say, that this PrC isn’t so bad. All know that ranged combat in DDO is not primarily DPS. Without AA, Bowmasters are only support in few quest. With AA PrC, they promoted to support in half quest (before Slaying Arrow) and in most quest (with Slaying Arrow). And if Turbine is OK with that, then well… We must accept this.

So what I what to change? Just redesign this PrC to be more effective in lower levels. And add more magic (just like it should be in Arcane Archer)

My proposal:



Arcane Archer(core)


Level 6: Arcane Archer I (4 AP):

Ability: Conjure Returning +1 Arrows
Ability: (active) True Strike
Spell Book: You have additional Spell in your spell book: Gust of Wind (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Gust_of_Wind) (1 level spell)
Grant: 20 more SP




Level 9: Arcane Archer II (1 AP):

Ability: Conjure Returning +2 Arrows
SL-a: Fireball (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Fireball), Uses: Arcane Archer level/rest
Spell Book: You have additional Spell in your spell book: Flame Arrow (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Flame_Arrow) (2 level spell)
Grant: 5 more SP




Level 12: Arcane Archer III (1 AP):

Ability: Conjure Returning +3 Arrows
Spell Book: You have additional Spell in your spell book: Shield (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Shield) (3 level spell)
Grant: 5 more SP




Level 15: Arcane Archer IV (1 AP):

Ability: Conjure Returning +4 Arrows
Ability: (active) Hail of arrows
Spell Book: You have additional Spell in your spell book: Web (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Web) (4 level spell)
Grant: 5 more SP




Level 18: Arcane Archer V (1 AP):

Ability: Conjure Returning +5 Arrows
Ability: (passive) You can Imbue Arrows with second Power.
Grant: 5 more SP



Imbues


Level 6: Imbues Force Arrow (1 AP):

Imbues arrow with Force of choice (Force, Sonic) which deal 1d6 damage on every shoot
Cost of SP: 10




Level 9: Imbues Elemental Arrow (1 AP):

Imbues arrow with Elemental of choice (Fire, Ice, Acid, Electric) which deal 1d6 damage on every shoot and additional effect on Vorpal strike (All: CL:3, Fire: Fireball, Ice: Snowball Swarm, Acid: Acid Blast, Electric: Electric Loop)
Cost of SP: 20




Level 12: Imbues Explode Arrow (1 AP):

Imbues arrow with Power of choice (Fire, Ice, Acid, Electric, Sonic, Force) which deal 1d6 damage on every shoot, additional damage with critical shoots (1d10 x (multiplier –1)) and additional effect with vorpal shoots (We have 2 choice: +6d6 additional damage or Spell effect: All: CL:5, Fire: Fireball, Ice: Otiluke's Freezing Sphere, Acid: Acid Blast, Electric: Ball Lightning, Sonic: Soundburst, Force: Chain Missiles (CL:6)).
Cost of SP: 30




Level 15: Imbues Terror Arrow (1 AP):

Imbues arrows with negative energy, granting the Fearsome ability and producing a Phantasmal Killer effect on critical shoots. On Vorpal Phantasmal Killer effect is replace by Finger of Death Effect.
Cost of SP: 40




Level 18: Imbues Slaying Arrow (1 AP):

Imbues arrows with Slaying ability, which deals 30d12 + 200 untyped damage to a living target on vorpal attack.
Cost of SP: 50



Abilities

True Strike – Shoot arrow with +20 to hit bonus, and can't roll 1. Colddown: 15 sec. Can be used in Manyshoot stance.

Hail of arrows – Shoot 1 + 1 per Arcane Archer level arrows to one target. Colddown: 45 sec. Can’t be used in Manyshoot stance.

---Special Note: With any Force Imbues, arrows gain also Ghost Touch ability.---
---Special Note: Spell Effect from Elemental and Explode arrow is cast on place when arrow hit.---



Comments are welcome.

Requiro
09-30-2010, 09:01 AM
60 views and comment? So bad or nobody cares about Arcane Archer? :(

Requiro
10-05-2010, 09:39 AM
...................................

Ravoc-DDO
10-05-2010, 01:02 PM
I think you played to much Diablo II...

Requiro
10-05-2010, 02:23 PM
I think you played to much Diablo II...

Well… Very constructive opinion :)

Requiro
01-27-2011, 02:19 PM
Some changes in my proposal. Maybe this time someone will comment :)

Urjak
01-27-2011, 02:37 PM
i would change it so that Arcane Archer I means level 1 spell, 2 level 2 spell and so on and also add some damage improvement (else those abilities would be quite underpowered imo)
Arcane Archer 2: Scorching Ray, 10% more damage from spa, 1,5% chance to crit for 1,5 times damage
Arcane Archer 3: Fireball, 20% more damage from spa, 1,5% chance to crit for 2 times damage
Arcane Archer 4: Force Missile 30% more damage from spa, 3% chance to crit for 2 times damage
Arcane Archer 5: Cyclonic Blast 40% more damage from spa, 3% chance to crit for 2,5 times damage

maybe drop that second imbue on tier 5 ... seems a bit tooo usefull^^

bree22
01-27-2011, 03:08 PM
A simpler solution would be to improve crit range. Crit only on 20 seems crazy on a bow especially on first strike. Logic would be 1st strike should do more damage being that u should be hitting them before they even know it. There defenses should be the weakest at this moment. Kinda like sneak attack. A bows crit range should be 17-20 or at least that for a dedicated archer where they can improve the crit range even further. EG. Improve crit would make a bow with a crit of 20 to 19-20. Then via enhancements improve crit range 2 more time at a cost of 2 then 4 enhancement pts. Your crit range would then be 17-20 on first enhancement then 15-20 on 2nd enhancement. This would at least close the gap for bows but not over power them.

doubledge
01-27-2011, 03:55 PM
change slayer arrow to + 600 and it's golden

Requiro
01-27-2011, 04:17 PM
Thanks for respond.

Urjak and bree22 - your suggestion has nothing to do with original D&D PrE Arcane Archer :)

Urjak: Giving spells was mine first idea. But that will be overpowered (espacialy with your list of spells). In oryginal D&D you have only 3x Fireball.

And 2nd Imbue (on level 18) is in purpose. I made Slaying Arrow weaker (500 -> 1d100 + 300) but give option to 2nd Imbue. With Terror arrow it is great for solo, with Explode Arrow we can choice elemental that moobs are vulnerable (or just neutral). This way we don’t need have much luck to shoot only vorpals (with only Slaying Arrows)

bree22 - what you propose it supposed to be in Deepwood Sniper.

doubledge - changing SA to 600 won't help much for this PrC on level before 18. It will be even more irritating that, good Imbues are so late in game.

doubledge
01-27-2011, 04:21 PM
or at leaset cause greater bane damage to everything we hit. the main opposer of arcane archers is now non existant, so why is this not working?

bree22
01-27-2011, 04:31 PM
Thanks for respond.

Urjak and bree22 - your suggestion has nothing to do with original D&D PrE Arcane Archer :)

Urjak: Giving spells was mine first idea. But that will be overpowered (espacialy with your list of spells). In oryginal D&D you have only 3x Fireball.

And 2nd Imbue (on level 18) is in purpose. I made Slaying Arrow weaker (500 -> 1d100 + 300) but give option to 2nd Imbue. With Terror arrow it is great for solo, with Explode Arrow we can choice elemental that moobs are vulnerable (or just neutral). This way we don’t need have much luck to shoot only vorpals (with only Slaying Arrows)

bree22 - what you propose it supposed to be in Deepwood Sniper.

doubledge - changing SA to 600 won't help much for this PrC on level before 18. It will be even more irritating that, good Imbues are so late in game.

Yea but 1 tier and it is weak at best. It should be combined with AA and have at least 2 tiers. not very hard to do and nowhere near overpowering

Requiro
01-27-2011, 04:38 PM
I posted suggestion, some time ago, about Deepwood Sniper, but noone answer.

(here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=300776)

I hope that Turbine implement something like this.

Arsont
01-27-2011, 04:56 PM
Personally, I'm rather fond of AA as it is now. To boost it, I'd rather see a tier II and possibly a tier III (Or as you suggest, a I-V, similar to archmage), with one of them granting improved crit range (Say, base 19-20 instead of just 20, stacks with feat but not keen), and/or another giving improved crit multiplier. I also like your idea of being able to add on a second imbue at level 18/20 (Ranger/elven). To be specific, I do like your options for the imbues (Force/Sonic, elemental, and especially your idea of changes to Terror arrows (I feel they're often too weak even when solo running for s/r/e). I'd like to see some sort of combination of the arrows and actual spells; That is, on a crit with your lv 12 imbues, a sonic arrows would do either Soundburst (The spell has an AoE stun) or a Shout/Greater shout effect (AoE sonic damage).

However, I don't like the idea of a nerf to slayer arrows. 500 is still pretty low on the damage scale, considering they only proc on a 20 and that ranged RoF is so low. Slayers need to stay at 500. 300 Would be unimaginibly worse than the Touch of Death nerf; at least ToD can proc multiple times, every fifteen seconds, and usually ends up doing 300+ on a single hit in wind stance. But again, I do like the idea of a second imbue.

I'm also somewhat biased against the SLA's; Not that it's not in the flavor, I just can't see myself using them for the most part. Additional imbues would be nice though (Charm arrows, anyone?).

However, I'd be fine with them just giving us either an extra level of crit range or multiplier in a tier II. And possibly more imbues

My 2cp.

PS: The current "exploding arrows" are only flaming burst, despite the fireball symbol. These should be changed to act more like the actual spell (Instead of flaming burst, fireball. Meaning, an AoE "explosion".

Requiro
01-27-2011, 05:32 PM
Turbine never add improved crit range to AA, because this is a part of Deepwood Sniper (hope they implement this PrC this year)

About Slaying Arrow. Maybe you are right. But I just don't like static damage. That why I change it to little dynamic damage. I will change this part of proposal. But leave dynamic damage + static damage.

Thanks for good advise.

And BTW: ToD was always overpowered, every monk know that. After nerf it is still powered strike. But in ranged combat we must suggest very small changes because fight from distance is very powerful fight style.

Glad that you like my vision about Imbues.

salmag
01-28-2011, 11:11 AM
<snip>

PS: The current "exploding arrows" are only flaming burst, despite the fireball symbol. These should be changed to act more like the actual spell (Instead of flaming burst, fireball. Meaning, an AoE "explosion".

This change is needed for Arcane Archers in my opinion. Make the Bursts act like they're supposed to, an AOE explosions...

After this, AAs would be finished, time to move onto DeepWood Snipers.

Raodin-bel-iori
02-20-2011, 10:17 PM
Pretty cool ideas. I already like my AA but find that it can't compare at all in damage to my rogue or monk. It could use a little love.

Requiro
02-21-2011, 08:35 AM
Pretty cool ideas. I already like my AA but find that it can't compare at all in damage to my rogue or monk. It could use a little love.

I'm glad you like it :)

I'm also made some cool proposal for Deepwood Sniper here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=300776

(I still have hope, that Developers sometimes watch suggestion subfroum and take inspiration from there... )

Maldavenous
02-21-2011, 10:53 AM
My favorite part of this idea is adding a few clicky spells for AAs. It gives the AA an extra chance to make use of metamagics they may have purchased and has a very static power increase. There may be a better selection of spells depending on where they want to go with it.

My suggestion for spells on an AA is that, like Archmage, there would be a variety of different selections the player could make. This would allow them to select if they want Offense, Defense or Buffs. The level of the spell should be roughly equal to the level of AA the player has reached. The number of times you can use the clicky abilities should equal to 1 plus the number of tiers of AA you have beyond that one. At AA 1 you would have 1 use of the level 1, at AA 5 you would have 6 uses of the level 1 and 1 use of the level 5.

Example:
Offense:
AA 1 - Niac's Cold Ray
AA 2 - Melf's Acid Arrow
AA 3 - Chain Missiles
AA 4 - Force Missiles
AA 5 - Prismatic Ray

Defense:
AA 1 - Shield
AA 2 - Blur
AA 3 - Displacement
AA 4 - Stoneskin
AA 5 - Teleport

Buffs:
AA 1 - Expeditious Retreat
AA 2 - Resist Energy
AA 3 - Haste
AA 4 - Fire Shield
AA 5 - Protection from Elements

I also believe that the second stacking AA ability at AA5 with a reduced average damage to slaying arrows through 20d12+300 instead of direct 500 helps the PRE. It gives those earlier abilities a reason for existing other than being what you use until you get slaying arrows. However, on those lines these abilities should all be useful as your secondary at level 20. I think Ghost Touch/Force is good because it always has a use against ethereal creature. Other than that the other abilities the AA currently has are a little lackluster.

Requiro
02-21-2011, 11:24 AM
My favorite part of this idea is adding a few clicky spells for AAs. (...)
Glad to hear that :)

My suggestion for spells on an AA is that, like Archmage, there would be a variety of different selections the player could make. This would allow them to select if they want Offense, Defense or Buffs. Great idea The level of the spell should be roughly equal to the level of AA the player has reached. Hmm... A little overpowered to me The number of times you can use the clicky abilities should equal to 1 plus the number of tiers of AA you have beyond that one. At AA 1 you would have 1 use of the level 1, at AA 5 you would have 6 uses of the level 1 and 1 use of the level 5.

Nice progression - I like it :) But in my opinion your spell selection is too much. You gave AA some of the most powerful spells in the game like Haste, Stoneskin, Fireshield ect. Also you give some useless like Shield, Resist Energy (lvl1 ranger spell). If AA need some spells, that should be some less game balancing spells - that's why my choice of spells.

(...)

I also believe that the second stacking AA ability at AA5 with a reduced average damage to slaying arrows through 20d12+300 instead of direct 500 helps the PRE. It gives those earlier abilities a reason for existing other than being what you use until you get slaying arrows. That was exactly my point of view, when I design this PrE proposal:) However, on those lines these abilities should all be useful as your secondary at level 20. I think Ghost Touch Uh... I'm completely forgot about this ability... :( /Force is good because it always has a use against ethereal creature. Other than that the other abilities the AA currently has are a little lackluster. Agreed

My comments in this color

Maldavenous
02-21-2011, 12:13 PM
You gave AA some of the most powerful spells in the game like Haste, Stoneskin, Fireshield ect. Also you give some useless like Shield, Resist Energy (lvl1 ranger spell).[/COLOR]

I figure the powerful spells are balanced to the fact that you only get 2 or 3 casts of most of them or they are spells that could be cast off scrolls.

The useless spells free up slots if you're a ranger or are useful for the non-ranger AAs.

I agree that some of them are possibly too powerful but I figured I'd highlight the best or most fitting spells and allow them to cull it down.

Rakian_Knight
02-21-2011, 09:23 PM
In my opinion Arcane Archer is both good and bad as it is now. However, the suggestion that you put forth isn't the right way of doing this. Arcane Archer already has five tiers through its conjure arrows. What I believe it needs is more of the pnp abilities that they once had.

Arcane Archer I
Cost: 4 ap
Conjure +1 arrows and gives you +20 max sp.
(This opens the first line of imbue arrow enhancements)

Imbue Arrow: Acid
Cost: 1 ap
Cost 20 sp to use but causes arrows to be acid arrows and deal 1d6 acid damage. This ability causes a lengthy cooldown of the Melf's Acid Arrow.

Imbue Arrow: Cold
Cost: 1 ap
Cost 20 sp to use but causes arrows to be frost arrows and deal 1d6 cold damage. This ability causes a lengthy cooldown of the Snowball Storm spell.

Imbue Arrow: Fire
Cost: 1 ap
Cost 20 sp to use but causes arrows to be flaming arrows and deal 1d6 fire damage. This ability causes a lengthy cooldown of the Flaming Sphere spell.

Imbue Arrow: Electricity
Cost: 1 ap
Cost 20 sp to use but causes arrows to be Shock arrows and deal 1d6 electricity damage. This ability causes a lengthy cooldown of the Electric Loop spell.

Imbue Arrow: Force
Cost: 1 ap
Cost 20 sp to use but causes arrows to be force arrows and deal 1d4 force damage in addition to acting like a ghost touch weapon. This ability causes a lengthy cooldown of the magic missle spell.

Arcane Archer II
Cost: 1 ap
Conjure +2 arrows and gains the seeker arrow ability.

Seeker Arrow
Cost: 0 ap
You can use this special shot up to five times per rest to give yourself a magical edge on those needed shots. You can give youself a +20 enhancement bonus to hit and ignore any concealment bonuses that the target may have from magical means.

Arcane Archer III
Cost: 1 ap
Conjure +3 arrows and another +10 sp (for a total of +30 max sp).

(This unlocks the tier two imbue abilities)

Imbue Arrow: Acid Burst
Cost: 2 ap
Prerequites: Imbue Arrow: Acid
Cost 30 sp to use but causes arrows to be acid burst arrows dealing an additional 1d6 acid damage and 2d10 additional acid damage on a crit. This ability causes a lengthy cooldown of the Acid ball spell.

Imbue Arrow: Frost Burst
Cost: 2 ap
Prerequites: Imbue Arrow: Frost
Cost 30 sp to use but causes arrows to be Frost burst arrows dealing an additional 1d6 cold damage and 2d10 additional cold damage on a crit. This ability causes a lengthy cooldown of the Frost Lance spell.

Imbue Arrow: Flaming Burst
Cost: 2 ap
Prerequites: Imbue Arrow: Fire
Cost 30 sp to use but causes arrows to be Flaming burst arrows dealing an additional 1d6 fire damage and 2d10 additional fire damage on a crit. This ability causes a lengthy cooldown of the fireball spell.

Imbue Arrow: Shocking Burst
Cost: 2 ap
Prerequites: Imbue Arrow: Shock
Cost 30 sp to use but causes arrows to be Shocking burst arrows dealing an additional 1d6 electric damage and 2d10 additional electric damage on a crit. This ability causes a lengthy cooldown of the Lighting Bolt spell.

Imbue Arrow: Force Burst
Cost: 2 ap
Prerequites: Imbue Arrow: Force
Cost 30 sp to use but causes arrows to be Force burst arrows dealing an additional 1d4 force damage and 2d6 additional force damage on a crit in addition to acting like a ghost touch weapon. This ability causes a lengthy cooldown of the Force Missle Spell spell.

Arcane Archer IV
Cost: 2 ap
Conjure +4 arrows and gives an ability called Hail of Arrows.

Hail of Arrows
Cost: 0 ap
Time: 30 seconds
This ability acts like manyshot except that it cost a use of your seeker arrow and cannot be used while many shot is in use. (No cooldown)

(This also opens up the third tier of imbues)

Imbue Arrow: Acid Blast
Cost: 3 ap
Prerequites: Imbue Arrow: Acid Burst
Cost 40 sp to use but causes your arrows to act like Acid Burst arrow but have an additional effect on vorpal hits. On a vorpal hit your arrow explodes into a powerful acidic attack that causes the target to take 2d4 damage every two seconds for 30 seconds in addition to acting like a distruction weapon decreasing his/her armor class by four. This ability causes a costly cooldown of the Acid Fog spell.

Imbue Arrow: Frost Blast
Cost: 3 ap
Prerequites: Imbue Arrow: Frost Burst
Cost 40 sp to use but causes your arrows to act like frost burst arrows but have an additional effect on vorpal hits. On a vorpal hit you arrow causes your target to freeze in place (no auto crits) for 30 seconds unless they can make a strength check (DC 10 + dex mod.) and is slowed for an additonal minute (total 1 min. 30 sec. but subtracting the freeze time). This ability causes a costly cooldown of the Polar Ray spell.

Imbue Arrow: Flaming Blast
Cost: 3 ap
Prerequites: Imbue Arrow: Flaming Burst
Cost 40 sp to use but causes you arrows to act like flame burst arrows but have an additional effect on vorpal hits. On a vorpal hit you arrow causes your target to burn savagely dealing 20d6 fire damage. This ability causes a costly cooldown of the Wall of Fire spell.

Imbue Arrow: Shocking Blast
Cost: 3 ap
Prerequites: Imbue Arrow: Shocking Burst
Cost 40 sp to use but causes your arrows to act like shocking burst arrows but have an additional effect on vorpal hits. On a vorpal hit you arrow causes your target to be stunned (no auto crits) for 30 seconds in addition to dealing 10d6 electrical damage.

Imbue Arrow: Terror Arrow
Cost: 3 ap
Prerequites: Imbue Arrow: Force Burst
Cost 40 sp to use but causes your arrows to have roaring effect (shaken foes and on crits deals 2d6 sonic) and have an additional effect on vorpal hits. On a vorpal strike this cast Phantasmal Killer on the target (DC 15+dex. mod.)*.

*On a save you are still looking at bow damage +2d6 sonic +4d6 force if I remember correctly. The force line is a safe line because it can't be resisted so it is going to have a weaker effect.

Arcane Archer V
Cost: 1 ap
Conjure +5 arrows and gain a Arrow of Death ability.

Arrow of Death
This counts as a use of your seeker arrow but this has the ability to kill a single target in a single shot. This ability can't be used with Hail of Arrows or Manyshot. This shot, if it hits, causes instant death to its target unless it makes a fort. save (DC 15+dex. mod).

(This also opens up the ability to get Slayer Arrows)

Imbue Arrow: Slayer
Cost: 1 ap
Requires one of the following: Imbure Arrow: Acid Blast, Imbure Arrow: Frost Blast, Imbure Arrow: Flaming Blast, Imbure Arrow: Shocking Blast, or Imbure Arrow: Terror Arrow.

Cost 50 sp and causes any arrow to deal 500 flat damage on a vorpal hit. This ability causes finger of death, slay living, and destruction to all have a long cooldown.

Comments, thoughts?

SiliconShadow
02-21-2011, 10:02 PM
Again I want the feats I want improved and greater many shots, I want swarm of arrows I want ranged to have access to what can make it worthwhile and I want it balanced :(

Requiro
02-22-2011, 06:25 AM
(...) What I believe it needs is more of the pnp abilities that they once had (...)



Almost all of you ideas are not PnP abilities :)

Besides, your idea is not balancing at all.

Made this PrE very poor DPS improvments on level 6-11 and replace unlimited True Strike by 5/rest (for now this is mostly useless ability, after your change will be use only for Additional Manyshoot)
Only a little better on level 12-14
On level 15 you give overpowered ability Hail of Arrows (50% more duration then Manyshoot, No cooldown) and overpowered stunning and freezing ability
You remove great solo Imbues – fearsome ability from Terror Imbues
And on level 18 you gave useless on that level ability: insta kill with fort save
And all this only for remove everything (but one Imbues) to get Slaying arrow


Like some of your ideas are nice (like add freezing or stunted effect – but for 2-3 sec), all the rest are just unbalance. For now AA is situational good DPS (manyshoot, long range, boss fighting). With your improvements, you can Manyshoot in big fight for 2 minutes constantly. Freezing 20% at one shoot (4 x arrow). And you want to tell me that this is balanced? No way :)

In my opinion, if someone want to add “hail of arrows” or “arrow of death” must consider DDO reality.

Arrow of death is cool in PnP but not in DDO at high level. If you want to add it do in on level 12 – when it works well. But with cooldown (let’s say 30 sec)
Hail of arrows are impossible to implement in DDO. But your proposal in too much overpowered. In my opinion the better way to implement this will be ability on level 9, with cooldown let’s say 60 sec. With this ability you can shoot as many arrow as your level to a single target (yes – max 20 arrows at once at level 20). That will be nice, one shoot nuke ability once per 60 sec. Overpowered? I don’t think so.

Rakian_Knight
02-22-2011, 12:00 PM
Almost all of you ideas are not PnP abilities :)

Besides, your idea is not balancing at all.

Made this PrE very poor DPS improvments on level 6-11 and replace unlimited True Strike by 5/rest (for now this is mostly useless ability, after your change will be use only for Additional Manyshoot)
Only a little better on level 12-14
On level 15 you give overpowered ability Hail of Arrows (50% more duration then Manyshoot, No cooldown) and overpowered stunning and freezing ability
You remove great solo Imbues – fearsome ability from Terror Imbues
And on level 18 you gave useless on that level ability: insta kill with fort save
And all this only for remove everything (but one Imbues) to get Slaying arrow


Like some of your ideas are nice (like add freezing or stunted effect – but for 2-3 sec), all the rest are just unbalance. For now AA is situational good DPS (manyshoot, long range, boss fighting). With your improvements, you can Manyshoot in big fight for 2 minutes constantly. Freezing 20% at one shoot (4 x arrow). And you want to tell me that this is balanced? No way :)

In my opinion, if someone want to add “hail of arrows” or “arrow of death” must consider DDO reality.

Arrow of death is cool in PnP but not in DDO at high level. If you want to add it do in on level 12 – when it works well. But with cooldown (let’s say 30 sec)
Hail of arrows are impossible to implement in DDO. But your proposal in too much overpowered. In my opinion the better way to implement this will be ability on level 9, with cooldown let’s say 60 sec. With this ability you can shoot as many arrow as your level to a single target (yes – max 20 arrows at once at level 20). That will be nice, one shoot nuke ability once per 60 sec. Overpowered? I don’t think so.


The Imbue abilities aren't but in my opinion are one of the few things about the arcane archer that was closer to the original while still making it work. Most arcane archers aren't wizards and the need to make a fireball the center of where you shoot an arrow doesn't really have a use in the game.

I look at this being a racial PrE instead of the Ranger PrE so levels to me are a little different. The PrE doesn't start til level 9 on most characters and the gaps between levels are only 2-3 so a small gap in power doesn't make that much difference. However, I haven't leveled a character like this all the way so I'm writing this as a suggestion from observations and researching. Numbers I don't know yet, I just went with a theme and stuck with it, acid deals DoT and destroys everything it touches, Cold slows and freezes, Fires burns for a massive damage, Electric Stuns but still damages, and force is a safe stable one but with less power.

Your ideas for Hail of arrows and Arrow of Death are good, a hell of a lot better then mine. (+1 for that)

Requiro
04-07-2011, 05:49 AM
I change a little my suggestion (new ideas and new layout)

What I add:

On level 9:
In "Imbues Elemental Arrow" Change CL from 5 to 3

On level 12:
In "Imbues Explode Arrow" change special effect on vorpals: additional damage or CL:5 spell effect. Now, in my design we can choice what we want on vorpals: more damage or spell effect.

On level 15:
Replace SL-a for ability:
Hail of arrows – Shoot 1 + 1 per 2 level arrows to one target. Cooldown: 45 sec. Can’t be used in Manyshoot stance.

On level 18:
In "Imbues Slaying Arrow" change damage from 20d12 + 300 to 30d12 + 200

Enjoy :)

donfilibuster
04-07-2011, 08:57 PM
I agree it'd be nice to have variety within any given PrE, not just the PrE being the variety for a given class.
(like the wizards PrEs that let you specialize a bit or at least choose some enhancements and not others)

I want to note here that the AA as it is now can be very very powerful in the hands of a capable player.
Like sometime happens with new bow toons and rangers it is not too hard to gimp or not use it to full advantage.

A good AA takes some player skill, have a mobility that reminds me of quake players, doing kiting right and not giving trouble to the party.
An AA takes some gear but can use what is there from the old packs, e.g. sands and GS may suffice.
On the good side, once you get all the gear you need you can be on your way to completionist doing all elven AA lives.

Players using the keyboard may have trouble keeping up with the jumping and shooting required for best results.
The mouse for strafing is a must-have. Not sure if a game pad helps but the AAs i know use the mouse mostly.

A capped AA TR might carry a dozen different GS bows, can solo dq and rf, can solo kite harry, can solo a number of epics like wiz king, etc.
This might involve ledges and the trap exploits but still getting them results.

There's still distrust of AAs from raid leaders, but it is nowhere as bad nowadays as it was last year.
This is fine as it's not an easy build, you may see more bad AA than good ones.

NexEverto
04-07-2011, 11:06 PM
I personally believe that the Arcane Archer PrE doesn't need 'fixing' or 'improving'. (Exception being the Imbue Explosive Arrows, I can see the logic behind having them flaming burst, but, its honestly fairly misleading.) The real issues many have with Arcane Archers are the lack of DPS, HP, and skill a majority of players seem to have. Unfortunately, besides teaching CON is not a dump stat, and having all the kills because no one else can catch your kited mobs, the last two cannot be fixed.

The DPS issue, however, can be. Its well known that Arcane Archers provide some of the best burst DPS, however, for the remainder of their time while their Manyshot is on cool down, if they choose to stick with a bow, they are subpar (Most, there are always exceptions that prove the rule.) This lack of non-burst is mostly because of the slower ranged alacrity. Even a fully geared Arcane Archer, with the Ranger Capstone, Haste and ToD Set will still shoot at roughly 1/3 the speed as a THF Build swings their axe. Everyone's first suggestion is always to change Arcane Archers, but that's such an isolated fix it'll really accomplish nothing. What happens when Deepwood Sniper is finally introduced and fixed? (Deepwood Sniper is one PrE that actually DOES need fixing, though Turbine said it was coming soon.) If Arcane Archers have been buffed up to compensate for the lack of DPS ranged characters provide, then you can basically take this thread and rename it to 'New vision of Deepwood Sniper (Again)'.

Now, don't for a second think I'm saying Ranged combat should be on par or better than Melee combat, that'll present a new problem of having complete Ranged Groups (Which will be awesome right up until you find a door that needs to be broken down, at which point everyone will recall, drop group and find another quest. xD) and then Melee's will have a reason to complain. However, that doesn't change the fact it needs a big bump. For anyone who says it should be on par, I have two simple solutions. Roll up a Melee, or use your player Skill/Knowledge, as well as your Build and Gear to make up the difference.

In short, changing the Arcane Archer PrE isn't a solution to fix ranged combat, fixing ranged alacrity in general is.

Requiro
04-08-2011, 08:21 AM
(...)I want to note here that the AA as it is now can be very very powerful in the hands of a capable player.

I know that. Like you can see in my proposal there is not much more power, but more diversity. Ability to choice our elemental (we must be more smart to know enemy vulnerability) and more progressive ability.(...)

(...) reminds me of quake players, doing kiting right and not giving trouble to the party.(...) The mouse for strafing is a must-have. (...)

Completely agree :) Without strafing AA is very annoying to other players...



I personally believe that the Arcane Archer PrE doesn't need 'fixing' Agree or 'improving' Disagree. AA is Bad design PrE, that's why I don't add more "power" but more diversity, progressive and more Arcane to that PrE. . (...)

(…)(Deepwood Sniper is one PrE that actually DOES need fixing, though Turbine said it was coming soon. But only Deepwood Sniper II not full PrE... and that is not good move :( ) If Arcane Archers have been buffed up to compensate for the lack of DPS ranged characters provide, then you can basically take this thread and rename it to 'New vision of Deepwood Sniper (Again)'.

Hey - I have also proposal for Deepwood Sniper :) Here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=300776

Now, don't for a second think I'm saying Ranged combat should be on par or better than Melee combat, Definitely not(...)

(…)(Which will be awesome right up until you find a door that needs to be broken down, at which point everyone will recall, drop group and find another quest. xD) (…)

Lol :):)

In short, changing the Arcane Archer PrE isn't a solution to fix ranged combat, fixing ranged alacrity in general is.

That is not my intention. I just feel like this PrE can be much more fun to play, that just simple: cast Acid Arrow until Slaying Arrow. Then Use only Slaying Arrow. I miss "Arcane" part of that PrE so much... :(


Comments in red. Thanks for respond :)

NexEverto
04-08-2011, 08:58 AM
AA is Bad design PrE, that's why I don't add more "power" but more diversity, progressive and more Arcane to that PrE.

(...)

That is not my intention. I just feel like this PrE can be much more fun to play, that just simple: cast Acid Arrow until Slaying Arrow. Then Use only Slaying Arrow. I miss "Arcane" part of that PrE so much... :(

Okay, I could be wrong but I suspect a lot of people misunderstood the intention of this post as giving the Arcane Archer PrE more power. But, I could be so used to seeing the typical "Make Arcane Archers better to even Ranged combat!" posts I missed the underlying ideas you had. Though, I still don't find myself agreeing with you. I could be wrong, but besides Wizards, and soon to be Sorcerers, there are no PrE's that allow a huge range of diversity (Please feel free to correct me, I'm not stating that with 100% certainty). All of the others (Besides the two classes mentioned above) either give you the option for two or three PrEs, and you either follow the whole line, or part of it. Arcane Archer, honestly, is one of the luckier PrE's in the fact it doesn't have one or two tiers and that's it. Look at Clerics, you get Radiant Servant or... Bards, thankfully you get the pick between Warchanters, Spell Singers, or Virtuosos, however, same issue, two tiers and that's it. And hey, back to Deepwood Snipers, anyone who ever thought of making one must sit wanting to kill all Arcane Archers for having a complete PrE.

As for 'Acid Arrow then Slaying Arrow' that truthfully reflects player preference. I still use Force Burst Arrows and Terror Arrows at level 20, really, Imbues are all circumstantial if you don't fall into the habit of playing with Slayers and only Slayers. Honestly, I think the reason you see Wizard/Monk/Fighter splash and any other splash Arcane Archers is so help add to the diversity side, as far as I see it, PrE's aren't meant to define your character or limit them, how you plan, gear, and build your character is. PrE's are simply meant to enhance them, kind of like the color of candles you put on top of a cake. That may have been a far stretched parallel... But who doesn't like cake!

Now, it's my turn to ask a question rather than just giving my opinion, I never played Pen and Paper, so I have no idea what Arcane Archers were like in there. Did Arcane Archers have more of an 'Arcane' aspect to them?

Talon_Moonshadow
04-08-2011, 11:19 AM
I personally believe that the Arcane Archer PrE doesn't need 'fixing' or 'improving'. (Exception being the Imbue Explosive Arrows, I can see the logic behind having them flaming burst, but, its honestly fairly misleading.) The real issues many have with Arcane Archers are the lack of DPS, HP, and skill a majority of players seem to have. Unfortunately, besides teaching CON is not a dump stat, and having all the kills because no one else can catch your kited mobs, the last two cannot be fixed.

The DPS issue, however, can be. Its well known that Arcane Archers provide some of the best burst DPS, however, for the remainder of their time while their Manyshot is on cool down, if they choose to stick with a bow, they are subpar (Most, there are always exceptions that prove the rule.) This lack of non-burst is mostly because of the slower ranged alacrity. Even a fully geared Arcane Archer, with the Ranger Capstone, Haste and ToD Set will still shoot at roughly 1/3 the speed as a THF Build swings their axe. Everyone's first suggestion is always to change Arcane Archers, but that's such an isolated fix it'll really accomplish nothing. What happens when Deepwood Sniper is finally introduced and fixed? (Deepwood Sniper is one PrE that actually DOES need fixing, though Turbine said it was coming soon.) If Arcane Archers have been buffed up to compensate for the lack of DPS ranged characters provide, then you can basically take this thread and rename it to 'New vision of Deepwood Sniper (Again)'.

Now, don't for a second think I'm saying Ranged combat should be on par or better than Melee combat, that'll present a new problem of having complete Ranged Groups (Which will be awesome right up until you find a door that needs to be broken down, at which point everyone will recall, drop group and find another quest. xD) and then Melee's will have a reason to complain. However, that doesn't change the fact it needs a big bump. For anyone who says it should be on par, I have two simple solutions. Roll up a Melee, or use your player Skill/Knowledge, as well as your Build and Gear to make up the difference.

In short, changing the Arcane Archer PrE isn't a solution to fix ranged combat, fixing ranged alacrity in general is.

AAs don't need a boost: ranged combat for everyone does.

Interesting example yo ugave about an all ranged group and a door to break down.

Mr.Cow set out to do one of his TRs as ranged only. I joined one of his ranged only LFMs, and we came to a door that needed to be knocked down. He shot it with an arrow and of course nothing happened.....
He sat there for a minute, then typed: "hmmm" in party chat.

I then pulled out a Sunflask from the last Festival, and threw it at the door.
The door exloded...and MrCow said: "nice". :)

Requiro
04-08-2011, 02:48 PM
(...)

Now, it's my turn to ask a question rather than just giving my opinion, I never played Pen and Paper, so I have no idea what Arcane Archers were like in there. Did Arcane Archers have more of an 'Arcane' aspect to them?

I don't play PnP too, but read the manuals and play by Internet for a while :)

So AA in DnD should have


Ability to Imbue Arrows with AOE spell. After cast a spell on the arrow, he must shoot that arrow. On impact spell unlease power on the target and space around.
Apecial abilities (1 per day):

Seeker arrow - always hit the target
Phase arrow - arrows go thru any non-magical obstacle (like wall) and defenses (like AC)
Hail of arrow - shoot arrows to everyone in the range
Arrow of death - kill instantly if target save faild (DC=20 Fortitude)

And any non-magical arrow that AA shoot, was Imbue with Magic and add +1 - +5 Enhancement bonus depends of level.


In DDO we get
- Equivalent of Magical Enhancments (+1 - +5 returning arrows)
- Limited equivalent of Imbues arrow - without AOE effect.
- Very week equivalent of Seeker arrow - True Strike
- Very week equivalent of Phase arrow - On Force Imbues we get Ghost Touch ability.

That’s why I post that changes. I don’t feel Arcane when playing Arcane Archer right now. And, like you said, only Arcanes get diversity in their PrE, but AA don't.