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Aerendil
09-28-2010, 12:32 PM
More damaging/offense-related songs, please.

Evidence is quite evident in the game that this is lacking. You have Bardic enhancements that improve spellcasting effectiveness, and even a PrE that requires enhancements for improving healing and *sonic* spells.
You have weapon enhancements in the game such as Resonance and Sonic Lore.
And there will now be a SP regen song available to Spellsinger II PRE.
And all for what?

Greater Shout. That's it. This is the ONLY DD spell that Bards have - and it's damage is poor since it comes with a secondary effect (stun) that proves useful.

The options are plentiful for additions here. There are numerous sonic-related spells in Complete Adventurer sourcebook alone, let alone the various other sourcebooks.
Give Bards a reason to go Spellsinger other than to play healbot. Give them a reason to use all of that SP they have. Give them a reason to equip that Mad Lute and go to town.
Because currently? Half of that gear and half of the enhancements available are completely wasted.

On behalf of Bards, and especially the Spellsingers:

More spells, please.
Thank you.

Darkrok
09-28-2010, 12:38 PM
More damaging/offense-related songs, please.

Evidence is quite evident in the game that this is lacking. You have Bardic enhancements that improve spellcasting effectiveness, and even a PrE that requires enhancements for improving healing and *sonic* spells.
You have weapon enhancements in the game such as Resonance and Sonic Lore.
And there will now be a SP regen song available to Spellsinger II PRE.
And all for what?

Greater Shout. That's it. This is the ONLY DD spell that Bards have - and it's damage is poor since it comes with a secondary effect (stun) that proves useful.

The options are plentiful for additions here. There are numerous sonic-related spells in Complete Adventurer sourcebook alone, let alone the various other sourcebooks.
Give Bards a reason to go Spellsinger other than to play healbot. Give them a reason to use all of that SP they have. Give them a reason to equip that Mad Lute and go to town.
Because currently? Half of that gear and half of the enhancements available are completely wasted.

On behalf of Bards, and especially the Spellsingers:

More spells, please.
Thank you.

I just had a thought that made me salivate a bit...

A persistent damage sonic cloud-type spell. Basically, a bard's firewall. I'd honestly give it to spellsingers only as they need some love and then fix song of capering for virts to be something more useful like a song that did a perform-based hold person. But a sonic cloud-type spell...yum!

Aerendil
09-28-2010, 01:17 PM
I just had a thought that made me salivate a bit...

A persistent damage sonic cloud-type spell. Basically, a bard's firewall. I'd honestly give it to spellsingers only as they need some love and then fix song of capering for virts to be something more useful like a song that did a perform-based hold person. But a sonic cloud-type spell...yum!

There is a Bard's fire wall in the Complete Adventurer book I mentioned above.
Damage is only done on one side, but it's otherwise identical - a non-moving wall of, in this case, sound that damages enemies approaching/running through it.

There's also spells for adding weapon effects (that daze enemies), and a cone-shaped AE sonic damage spell in that same sourcebook.
Plenty of options/ideas out there!

Aashrym
09-28-2010, 01:28 PM
I just had a thought that made me salivate a bit...

A persistent damage sonic cloud-type spell. Basically, a bard's firewall. I'd honestly give it to spellsingers only as they need some love and then fix song of capering for virts to be something more useful like a song that did a perform-based hold person. But a sonic cloud-type spell...yum!

You mean like cacophonic shield? Sonic damage, moves with the caster tho. Wall of sound is more what you might be thinking.

I would like to see more illusions and the shadow conjuration/evocation lines personally. I think we can add even the simpler illusions. The main goal is to distract or prevent a mob from entering a space. I don't see why we can't have a list of illusions for spectral forces that all do the same thing, with different visual effects for flavor.

All we need is to have mobs make a collision check in the aoe space for the illusion. Will save and they can pass thru, will fail and they cannot but the party can.

It might be simpler in my mind but that seems like a good basis to at least start with.

Aashrym
09-28-2010, 03:10 PM
Some spells worth considering. I'm sure there's more and there may be issues with some in the list but they may be adaptable.

Level 1:
Distort Speech
Appraising Touch
Friendly Face
Herald's Call
Animate Rope

Level 2:
Insidious Insight
Tactical Precision
Insidious Rhythm
Wave of Grief
Cloud of Bewilderment
Bladeweave
Sonic Weapon
Whirling Blade

Level 3:
Dirge of Discord
Harmonic Chorus
Major Image

Level 4:
Unluck
Celebration
War Cry
Shadow Conjuration
Spectral Weapon

Level 5:
Revenance
Shadow Evocation
Wail of Doom
Greater Blink
Body Harmonics
Improvisation
Unfettered Heroism

Level 6:
City Stride
Mass Dominate Person
Cacophonic Shield
Dirge
Eyebite
Greater Bestow Curse

Irinis
09-28-2010, 03:30 PM
The other real problem with Bard spells is that I use every buff and debuff I pick up on my Bards. Aside from Merfolk's blessing, we use every spell slot for something useful. I mean, maybe I could swap out Slow for something that actually does damage... but high level spells are taken by healing spells and needed buffs/debuffs.

Unless the new sonic spell was at the level of Greater Shout, had a faster cooldown, and actually killed things it'd be useless. But then nobody would take Greater Shout ever again if we had something better. Hehe.

Aashrym
09-28-2010, 03:47 PM
Wail of Doom does 1d4/lvl up to 15d4 instead of 10d6 flat. The spell does a save or panic vs WILL or shaken on a save. The damage save for half is also WILL instead of FORT. It would be easier to do more damage based on the weaker save, but they are going to panic instead of stun.

It's a trade off.

The main point that we need more options I agree with, and with the spell singer bonus to sonic damage we could stand to have a wall like effect, the greater shout cone effect, and an aura that moves with us to add to the list and flesh out that part of the pre a bit more.