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LordDevis
09-24-2010, 12:06 PM
ok i was wondering what do you think should be done with raid loot (if you need it you keep it is a given)

1. you put it up for roll
2. your friend/guildy needs it you pass no roll
3. your friend/guildy needs it you make them roll
4. you roll for it and pass to you friend/guildy to help them get the item they need
5. you sell the item to the highest bidder in that group (ie mini AH)
6. you roll for it just to vendor it for the money

I'm looking to find out what everyone thinks about these options and if you think they are fair

Spoonwelder
09-24-2010, 12:11 PM
See you have 2 posts and haven't been around the forums so Hi and Welcome to the forums....

I would suggest a search on Loot.....loot drama threads abound and you can get a general feeling.

The answer is do what you want but communicate it well to the group. In a best case scenario communicate if you are looting for a friend/guildie etc... But know what you are looting - is it BTA or BTC or not bound at all. Also know how the loot can be used by all of the different classes and don't pigeonhole the loot. But you set your rules and stick to em.

Your loot is your loot.

Rolling on others loot is similar but different - roll if you need it or it fits your build OR it isn't BTC and an alt can use it.

I would only roll for a friend/guildie if they weren't already in the group AND no one else that really could use it was rolling....ie everyone else is rolling to vendor or for someone else.

Don't roll to vendor it, if that is all you are going to do then the original looter could do that and you may be rolling against someone else who could actually use it. Unless the original looter says they in no way want any part of it and nobody else needs it. This is rare.

Crann
09-24-2010, 12:38 PM
Your loot is yours to do with as you please.

Just be aware that Orien is a little different from most other servers in that loot not kept is usually always up for roll to everyone in party, and not passed off to friends/guildies.

I'd never give you grief for passing something to a friend or guildy, but there are those here that feel strongly about it.

I would also not exclude a non-guildie from a loot roll...but that is just me.

Chette
09-24-2010, 12:56 PM
ok i was wondering what do you think should be done with raid loot (if you need it you keep it is a given)

1. you put it up for roll
2. your friend/guildy needs it you pass no roll
3. your friend/guildy needs it you make them roll
4. you roll for it and pass to you friend/guildy to help them get the item they need
5. you sell the item to the highest bidder in that group (ie mini AH)
6. you roll for it just to vendor it for the money

I'm looking to find out what everyone thinks about these options and if you think they are fair

1, 2 and 3 are all perfectly acceptable.
5, you're welcome to do this, but I personally won't participate and probably won't run with you in the future (it's your choice what to do with your loot and it's my choice who I run with)
4 and 6 are completely unacceptable and if I see somebody doing this I will not only never run with them again but make it know to my guild that they are on the do not party with list. If I am willing to give my loot for someone else, then it is my decision who gets it (either by roll or by my personal choice). By giving my loot to you I do that on the understanding that you personally have need for it. If you give it away to somebody else or sell it you have abused and taken advantage of my offer.

Visty
09-24-2010, 12:59 PM
when loot drops for me, i will with it whatever i want

my order of preference:
1. me
2. guildys
3. friends
4. vendor
5. pugs

Uska
09-24-2010, 01:27 PM
4-6 can generate a lot of hate. and if I knew you were doing those I wouldnt let you roll on any of my loot that I was ready to pass.

Crazyfruit
09-24-2010, 01:44 PM
#1 & 3 are the only ones that won't get you blacklisted from lots of peoples' groups.

Not necessarily mine, but Orien isn't a "your loot is your loot" kinda server.

Basically, if your character doesn't need it & no one discussed any type of loot policy, it's always expected that everyone (who could put it to good use) in the raid has a chance at it.

psymun
09-24-2010, 03:05 PM
Here's the logic, in my opinion, of why the Loot is rolled on the way it is...

When my guild does raids, we usually only have 2 or 3 people at the most that are non-guild.

I don't think it would be fair to those 2-3 people for my guild to just pass loot amongst ourselves, just leaving the non-guild members out in the cold.

It's basically like playing 10 on 2... If 5 named items drop, chances are, 4 of the 5 will drop to my guild, and if that's the case, why would anyone want to run with my guild if they have such a low chance to get anything they need anyway?

As for all-guild runs, why would I hand an item like the Greenblade over to one character in my guild over the other? What makes them more special? What makes them more worthy?

To make it fair... My guild always goes by: "If you don't need it, it goes up for roll..." It keeps all drama and argument down to a minimum.

The only issue is rolling for TR and things of that nature. Is it fair to roll on a Green Blade for your Barbarian because you plan on a TR to a caster in a few months? Meanwhile, there are 3 casters that have been farming the raid into the ground that could use it right now?

Our guild functions with a guild-first mentality, so we all typically can use our own judgment to determine if it would help the guild more for another character to have an item we won't be using any time soon. That being said, we don't hold non-guild members to those standards.

The whole thing is just a huge mess that you need to just deal with on an individual basis knowing someone won't be happy.

DFraser
09-24-2010, 03:24 PM
your friend/guildy needs it you pass no roll
That being said I pass out alot of stuff to pugs because they can use it and my guildies can not. I do not do rolls I will give it where I please. If I like you in the pug AKA were not an Ahole and it does not fit with my peeps in the run its yours. Yeah not fair, but as my dear old dad said "no one ever said the world was fair."

Aikou
09-24-2010, 04:34 PM
#1 & 3 are the only ones that won't get you blacklisted from lots of peoples' groups.

Not necessarily mine, but Orien isn't a "your loot is your loot" kinda server.

Basically, if your character doesn't need it & no one discussed any type of loot policy, it's always expected that everyone (who could put it to good use) in the raid has a chance at it.

Have to agree with this post 100%. If I join a PUG raid this is the loot policy expected, if this isn't what's going to happen, you better say so before the raid starts. I'm not going to join a raid where there's only one item I want, and one individual has six friends/guildies there to pull it for them without me even being considered. It's a waste of my time and you'd better believe that if that happens I know who I'm not partying with ever again.

I watched this happen in a Hound run not too long ago, Ring of Thelis dropped to a rogue, the rogue literally looked around, said, "Oh, you're in my guild." pass loot. Nothing about this was announced prior, nothing about that is standard loot policy which is expected when you join a PUG, nothing about it was kosher as it wasn't announced before hand.

If that's the loot policy you want to use for a raid you're leading, then by all means just tell people. If you're joining other people's raids and doing that, I can guarantee you're going to make a lot of enemies quickly.

JohnWarlock
09-24-2010, 04:51 PM
The way I run stuff and this is when I put up my own groups / lead them.

1.) If I need it
2.) For my gf
3.) Guildies
4.) Friends
5.) Up for roll.

Unless you find specific case by case scenarios. Someone is trying to get an item and they say from the start they are running this quest just for that. I don't mind helping them and passing it over.

But in the end, it's your loot, your pick what you do with it.

Although for all purposes involved when I join a group as a pug, or invitee I will play by other people's rules for loot distribution be it that I find them fair or not. The whole being a guest thing.

Consumer
09-24-2010, 05:17 PM
When Epic Fail was the best guild on the server we used to leave all named loot in the chest and if it was under your name you could loot it if you could use it, if not it went up for roll for other people that could use it in the party. This is the fairest way to distribute loot in DDO imo. I don't know whether OR and the other big guilds still use this rule but I would hope so.


The first raid I joined on Kyber a Fighter pulled a +3 Wis tome, I was on my evoker FvS and there was another Cleric who was a nanny bot. I had spent 5 majors covering almost all the healing while this gimp cleric was letting everyone die. Of course even though the guy was one of the worst Clerics I've ever seen the fighter gives the tome to the Cleric, just because they are in the same guild. That kind of looting I do not agree with and is one of the main reasons why DDO's loot system is ****. If it had been an open PK world I would have Comet Falled them into oblivion.

Your not rewarded for performing well, your rewarded for being a having a certain tag. Even if your in a guild, chances are if you want to be any good endgame you will be running with some players again. If I know your not fair with loot and I get something you need, guess where that loot is going to go.

Hellllboy
09-24-2010, 05:21 PM
Your loot is your's.

Do as you wish with it.

unscythe
09-24-2010, 06:28 PM
OR loot councils stuff.

I respect that what a person loots is theirs to do as they please. But sometimes it just feels wrong, like when a person pulls loot for vendor gold

The look at loot, and not pull loot right off the back is a decent rule. It was great for when the server first started, since it was smart to help each other out in gear we needed. Like some gear was designated for a caster, or melee, since it would optimize the group.

The number of people raiding was also fewer, so making sure people were betetr equiped was a top priorty to raiding.

So the rule was implimented in fairness and not wasting the rare equipment when the server first started.

Leaders of raids can set their own rules, but that should be done in the beginning of the raid.

Khanyth
09-27-2010, 10:00 AM
If the loots is under yourname:

Step 1: Determine if you can use the loot, for either you or an alt
if you can, stop. If you can't:

Step 2a: If a guildie or friend is in the group, and you want to give it to them, do so, but let the group know that you are passing it to them, and >>if<< the guildie/friend wants it, they can. You can ask the guildie/friend through tell or guild chat before you do this if you want. I do this especially when I pull a mana pot... I'm nice to clerics who keep my barbarian butt alive

if the friend/guildie doesn't want it:

Step 3: Put it up for roll and may the highest roll win

Some guilds have their rules (item must be for the current character and not an alt...... adding a +10 or a +15 to a roll if it is a character class who can use it... that's a nice and unique one)

So long as it is clear from the begining how loot is going to be done, it's cool. Otherwise, I've seen perfectly calm and cool people go from "Awesome run... you guys are the best!!!" to putting a saddle on their Dramallama and riding it in a hissy claiming that those "best guys" are now "thieves" and "racists".

*yawn* I'm so glad that I haven't seen anyone from that B_______ Warlords guild in a while. Never trust a THF who wields a daxe and a shield "for fun" in a raid

Or a player who, by level 19, deliberatly undergears his barb, and chooses not rage unless they're about to die, for the sole reason of a HP boost, and won't frenzy or dfrenzy because it takes away HP.... and doesn't have a heavy fort item or a FF item.... and is vip..... never trust them either. This one isn't a B_______ Warlords. Perfectly good VoD group down the crapper because of him.

WestportStan
09-27-2010, 06:37 PM
Not necessarily mine, but Orien isn't a "your loot is your loot" kinda server.


Yup were kinda one big dysfunctional family. Like the old sitcom Roseanne but with halfings.



When Epic Fail was the best guild on the server we used to leave all named loot in the chest and if it was under your name you could loot it if you could use it, if not it went up for roll for other people that could use it in the party. This is the fairest way to distribute loot in DDO imo. I don't know whether OR and the other big guilds still use this rule but I would hope so.


I think by 'when' you mean 'since' and by 'was' you mean 'is' :D


Back to the OP.
The reason that most of the well organized guilds do it this way is, it is the best way for those who can make the most of those items, to have them.
That person that won that roll for cool useful loot, is gonna use it and if you group with them again. You will benefit from its proper use in a group setting.

Vanshilar
09-27-2010, 11:12 PM
ok i was wondering what do you think should be done with raid loot (if you need it you keep it is a given)

1. you put it up for roll
2. your friend/guildy needs it you pass no roll
3. your friend/guildy needs it you make them roll
4. you roll for it and pass to you friend/guildy to help them get the item they need
5. you sell the item to the highest bidder in that group (ie mini AH)
6. you roll for it just to vendor it for the money

I'm looking to find out what everyone thinks about these options and if you think they are fair

Generally in OR the "top" raids are done by loot council, meaning that generally it goes to the character who can make the best use of it (decided on by raid leader and/or officers that attend the raid), which means that even if it's an item that you (who pulled it) can use it, you may be told to pass it to someone else. For example, the encrusted ring is best used on barbarians, so those will generally get higher priority on the ring, even if a fighter (for example) pulled it. In those raids there's no particular distinction between guildies or non-guildies; I got my encrusted ring for example in an OR raid where I was PUGged in before I joined OR.

In OR PUGs, it'll generally go to open roll for those who are appropriate for it, then in descending order of usefulness. Meaning those who can use it well roll on it first, etc., not those who can use it at all. For example, the Ring of Thelis (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Rings/RingofThelis.jpg) will generally go to healer/casters first even though rangers and bards can also use it to some extent. Again, there's no particular distinction between guildies and non-guildies, which seems to be different than other servers, where items are guildies-first. Generally, getting it for a TR is not an acceptable reason, unless that was stated beforehand. Most of these things actually may be considered if stated beforehand, so if you're looking for some special item, make sure to say so when you join a raid.

What's considered unacceptable are rolling (or looting for that matter) just to vendor it, or rolling for friends, or auctioning it off to group. So on Orien it's generally up for an open roll (to the most appropriate builds first) if you don't need it. I don't think OR makes a distinction between guildies or non-guildies on loot, and if I know a guild is going to put their own guildies ahead of the rest of the group, I wouldn't bother joining it as a PUG.

Oh and of course, be sure to make sure you're not carelessly looting bound loot, usually that'll be called out at the end of the raid.

mystafyi
09-27-2010, 11:19 PM
Generally, getting it for a TR is not an acceptable reason

lol i agree... nothing like a wizard taking the madstone boots just cuz he said he might tr at some point... of course he says that after s@#t hits the fan for a lvl20 wiz taking the booties in the first place ..... lol orien at its best

Aikou
09-28-2010, 01:52 PM
Would the people/guilds who just pass to friends/guildies when they don't need an item as opposed to putting it up to a fair and open roll to the GROUP of people who just helped you succeed in a raid go ahead and post their names here?
I'm not going to contribute to a raids success only to have the loot go to someone without a fair chance at it. Just want to know who I should avoid now, because that's just nonsense.

Edit: This only applies to the PUG raids, because as Vanshilar has mentioned above ORs guild raids have their own loot rules which are made clear to all party members prior to starting the run and you consent to those loot rules upon joining the raid, if you don't like it, don't come.

LordMond63
09-28-2010, 07:42 PM
I'm a big, big believer in "Need Before Greed."

When you go on a raid here, I would assume that a good raid leader(s) would outline loot rules before it begins. If you participate in the raid after the rules are specified, you are implicity accepting those rules and agreeing to abide by them.

If YOU, the OP, is the raid leader, then any of the loot options you list would be acceptable because it's YOUR raid, YOUR rules. You might not find many repeat participants with a couple of those rules but you'd be free to implement any/all of them as you see fit.

I've played MMOs in which raids were far larger than they are here (I think 250 or so might be the largest raid I've ever been a member of). With that many people, loot dispersal can take...well, longer than the raid itself. But the good leader(s) outlined the rules before anyone set out from the civilized areas and they had a number of people whose jobs were to hold all named/rare loot during the raid and to monitor rolls and such at the end of the raid. One of the principal rules was that you rolled for loot useable only by the character you played in the raid- no rolling for alts. Once you'd won a roll for a good item, you were not allowed to roll for another (typically you were dismissed from raid chat or at least squelched so that you couldn't roll again). If you engaged in shenanigans, word got around quickly and you might find that you were no longer welcome on better raids.

Even though raids here in DDO are not the same arduous process they are in other games, I still think it's a good idea to "play nice" if you expect to participate in raids conducted by the better guilds here, the ones who bring a far better than normal chance of a successful completion. But if you roll with them, they set the rules- as it should be.

muffinlad
09-28-2010, 08:00 PM
My list is as follows:

1) Me.
2) Guildy that needs it.
3) Someone who has given me an item in the past (even if they made me roll for it). I keep a list.
4) Winner of Dance Off

If I, or a guildy do not need the item, I do a dance off, and normally give the item to the first person who can type /dance2 and /dance1 in some form of near dance like order, and if they mix it with flips and jumps, all the better.

Sob stories, complaining or moaning about it will pretty much disqualify you from my item. It's a game....not brain surgery. No one is getting my kidneys, I am using both of them....

muffinstrange.